What would you pay to get into the track?

[sharkie187]

So, I grew up going to Santa Anita and crappy Hollywood Park. The admissions when I had to start paying was $3-6. When I left for the service, I was lucky that I spent my (so far) entire adult life in Europe. I travelled all over seeing the different race courses and circuits. The admissions prices really shocked me at times. It was not unusual to pay MORE to get into the race track then to bet at the race track. Which is probably why a lot of the Europeans go to the bookies and bet for free.

Here's my overall entrance price by country:

England $15-45 for general admission; $135 for the Grand National; $105 for Royal Ascot; Towcester Free
England greyhounds $7-20
England Amature (point to point) races $25-35
Germany $10-13
Germany harness $5-7
Turkey $3-5
Belgium/Holland $10-$13
Ireland $25-35
France (flat and harness) $10-20
Italy $7-10
Norway $40 (One visit for the Norway Cup)

So if your local race track started charging $15 just to get in, would you go? Otherwise, how much would you pay to for an average day at the races?

[thaskalos]

I wouldn't go to the track even if the track paid me.

Even if I am at the track...I am sitting deep in the bowels of the building at the simulcast center...far away from the famed "track ambiance". I can do the same thing at home...where the surroundings are much more to my liking.

[Stillriledup]

I wouldn't go to the track even if the track paid me.

Even if I am at the track...I am sitting deep in the bowels of the building at the simulcast center...far away from the famed "track ambiance". I can do the same thing at home...where the surroundings are much more to my liking.

Track operators don't 'get' that the most serious gamblers don't want to be at the live venue for reasons of added expense and the ability to concentrate.

The only serious bettors who should go are those that need to see the live races (gallop outs, etc) in order to win. If you're a paper and pen guy, that stuff doesn't matter.

[Track Phantom]

I wouldn't go to the track even if the track paid me.

Even if I am at the track...I am sitting deep in the bowels of the building at the simulcast center...far away from the famed "track ambiance". I can do the same thing at home...where the surroundings are much more to my liking.

I'm the same way.

If a track were to completely overhaul their live viewing, at least in a section of the inside grandstand area, to a point where it was for the home player, it might be more desirable.

Things like outlet for computer, free wi-fi, flatscreens at the table, betting app for PC or phone to bet from the table, etc. Not sure if that would be enough but it would be a start.

When I've gone to the local tracks in Texas, I had the impression they are stuck in 1988. I asked for a sitting area with an outlet and they had to call 7 people to solve this mystery. The audio was so loud, we had to wait until the announcer was done with his babble just we could speak at the table. No wifi, or at least that I could make work.

As much as I play and followed this game, unfortunately, the track has little interest in catering to my needs.

[thaskalos]

The only serious bettors who should go are those that need to see the live races (gallop outs, etc) in order to win. If you're a paper and pen guy, that stuff doesn't matter.

HEY...I don't know if I like the SOUND of that. :)

[Donttellmeshowme]

So, I grew up going to Santa Anita and crappy Hollywood Park. The admissions when I had to start paying was $3-6. When I left for the service, I was lucky that I spent my (so far) entire adult life in Europe. I travelled all over seeing the different race courses and circuits. The admissions prices really shocked me at times. It was not unusual to pay MORE to get into the race track then to bet at the race track. Which is probably why a lot of the Europeans go to the bookies and bet for free.

Here's my overall entrance price by country:

England $15-45 for general admission; $135 for the Grand National; $105 for Royal Ascot; Towcester Free
England greyhounds $7-20
England Amature (point to point) races $25-35
Germany $10-13
Germany harness $5-7
Turkey $3-5
Belgium/Holland $10-$13
Ireland $25-35
France (flat and harness) $10-20
Italy $7-10
Norway $40 (One visit for the Norway Cup)

So if your local race track started charging $15 just to get in, would you go? Otherwise, how much would you pay to for an average day at the races?




Hell no i wouldnt pay $15. I might pay $2. Every dollar i bet they taking 15% for themselves. How much damn money are they wanting to get out my pocket?

[Saratoga_Mike]

Track operators don't 'get' that the most serious gamblers don't want to be at the live venue for reasons of added expense and the ability to concentrate.

The only serious bettors who should go are those that need to see the live races (gallop outs, etc) in order to win. If you're a paper and pen guy, that stuff doesn't matter.

If I'm a serious gambler (I'm not), why would I worry about the $5 admission fee or overpriced food? I might find it offensive on principle, but not from a practical aspect.

On the concentration issue, it's hard to disagree with that point unless you're ultra-high-end player with your own betting room at the Red Mile or Plainridge Harness.

Go to LRL on a Friday. There are 7 people in the grandstands. Trust me, track mgt "gets" exactly what is going on.

If I stipulate that all of your points are correct, track mgt should do nothing to attract the serious gambler (more private betting rooms?). You've established that the serious gambler (with few exceptions) should not bet on track. So what is track mgt doing wrong (as implied by your "get")?

On a separate matter, did you not criticize NYRA for raising admission fees at Saratoga? For offering pre-paid picnic tables? Remind me, how did Saratoga do this year? Is it possible that track management is just slightly sharper than you give them credit for?

[SandyW]

$2.00, that is all the tracks get from me. That is all it is worth.
I went to many Belmont Stakes where the cost of admission was just $2.00.
It is bad enough that the tracks bleed you on takeout, food, and drink costs.

[cbp]

If I'm capable of winning serious money and don't want to pay taxes, I go to the track. And it's a hard sell. Nothing beats hanging out at home betting a bunch of tracks

[ebcorde]

I paid a scalper for box seats at Pimlico Black Eyed Susan day this year. Great seats at the finish line, met Bob Baffert. I'd pay for Royal Ascot ,L'Arc, Breeder's, and the million dollar races. That's about it.

[ebcorde]

So, I grew up going to Santa Anita and crappy Hollywood Park. The admissions when I had to start paying was $3-6. When I left for the service, I was lucky that I spent my (so far) entire adult life in Europe. I travelled all over seeing the different race courses and circuits. The admissions prices really shocked me at times. It was not unusual to pay MORE to get into the race track then to bet at the race track. Which is probably why a lot of the Europeans go to the bookies and bet for free.

Here's my overall entrance price by country:

England $15-45 for general admission; $135 for the Grand National; $105 for Royal Ascot; Towcester Free
England greyhounds $7-20
England Amature (point to point) races $25-35
Germany $10-13
Germany harness $5-7
Turkey $3-5
Belgium/Holland $10-$13
Ireland $25-35
France (flat and harness) $10-20
Italy $7-10
Norway $40 (One visit for the Norway Cup)

So if your local race track started charging $15 just to get in, would you go? Otherwise, how much would you pay to for an average day at the races?

are u serious? oh hell no, maybe once a year. Royal Ascot/L'arc like maybe once lifetime.

[ebcorde]

I'm the same way.

If a track were to completely overhaul their live viewing, at least in a section of the inside grandstand area, to a point where it was for the home player, it might be more desirable.

Things like outlet for computer, free wi-fi, flatscreens at the table, betting app for PC or phone to bet from the table, etc. Not sure if that would be enough but it would be a start.

When I've gone to the local tracks in Texas, I had the impression they are stuck in 1988. I asked for a sitting area with an outlet and they had to call 7 people to solve this mystery. The audio was so loud, we had to wait until the announcer was done with his babble just we could speak at the table. No wifi, or at least that I could make work.

As much as I play and followed this game, unfortunately, the track has little interest in catering to my needs.

I agree too much useful information on the internet, like I can't play a track without it nowadays.

I was a regular at Sam Houston. They had wi-fi and outlets and a very nice sitting area for a small fee. I don't think they had wi-fi at Gulf greyhound, or Retama. I haven't not lived there since 2007. I get it , you would look out of place showing up with a laptop/tablet there. Where I live Parx and Penn National does not have wi-fi. Delaware Park , Laurel do

[letswastemoney]

I like going to the racetrack and meeting various people.

Sitting at my laptop and handicapping, even if I'm at a coffee shop or something, is isolating.

Many racetracks overcharge though for parking and admission. Let people save that money for losing bets.

[raybo]

The last time I went to the track it cost $2 to park and $2 to get in. Then if you want a program it's another $1 or so. If you wanted the DRF pay some more. Want a sit down with a monitor, some more. And that's all just in the simulcast building. Have no idea about the other building, never went in there. That was years ago, and won't be going back, ever, unless I am invited by friends just for a get together, then I won't be betting anyway.

[Tall One]

$2.00, that is all the tracks get from me. That is all it is worth.
I went to many Belmont Stakes where the cost of admission was just $2.00.
It is bad enough that the tracks bleed you on takeout, food, and drink costs.


Why I didn't even bother with BC. I can pay 5 bucks to go out there tomorrow, so why am I going to pay the Gambino Family for those two days?

I'll go to Keeneland once per meet. There are certain areas during the live meet that have pockets of simulcast regulars hanging around, and that's where I tend to gravitate towards. Grab a spot for your program and steno pad, and discuss the races with strangers, which IMO, can make for a nice day at the track.

Haven't been to the Red Mile to see their new digs, but from what I understand, the simulcast area is pretty nice. Hope to watch BC Friday there.

[Cratos]

Why I didn't even bother with BC. I can pay 5 bucks to go out there tomorrow, so why am I going to pay the Gambino Family for those two days?

I'll go to Keeneland once per meet. There are certain areas during the live meet that have pockets of simulcast regulars hanging around, and that's where I tend to gravitate towards. Grab a spot for your program and steno pad, and discuss the races with strangers, which IMO, can make for a nice day at the track.

Haven't been to the Red Mile to see their new digs, but from what I understand, the simulcast area is pretty nice. Hope to watch BC Friday there.
The responses about paying to go to the racetrack is odd when many of the same people will pay the high NFL, NBA, MLB, and NBA ticket prices.

I absolutely enjoy going to the racetrack although the only meet that I attend on a daily basis is the Saratoga Meet where I pay a lot for seating, I also attend Belmont, but not on a daily basis. I don't attend Aqueduct at all.

However the big hitter for attendance is the Ky Derby. With plane fare, hotel, car rental, and reserve seats for two; you will part with a few dollars.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

The responses about paying to go to the racetrack is odd when many of the same people will pay the high NFL, NBA, MLB, and NBA ticket prices.

I absolutely enjoy going to the racetrack although the only meet that I attend on a daily basis is the Saratoga Meet where I pay a lot for seating, I also attend Belmont, but not on a daily basis. I don't attend Aqueduct at all.

However the big hitter for attendance is the Ky Derby. With plane fare, hotel, car rental, and reserve seats for two; you will part with a few dollars.

If you are going to the races purely for the entertainment value, then the admission would be equivalent to sporting events, or the movies, or a concert. But if the point is to bet, then the admission becomes something of a "tax." Tracks could better accommodate real bettors by providing some sort of voucher that has to be used to bet an amount equivalent to the entry fee. A voucher that could not simply be cashed in. Say the "entry fee" is $15 and you get a voucher for $10. With a 20% take they make another $2 when you bet, so an admission becomes worth $7. The other thing is that the less serious people have an incentive to at least bet the $10 voucher, and might actually bet more. One point of having admission is to discourage the riff raff from showing up, so I'm ok paying something to get in.

[Track Phantom]

... Tracks could better accommodate real bettors by providing some sort of voucher...

This should be a no-brainer. If a player goes to the track and wagers a certain amount, he should be able to use his MVP card when parking, entry, seating, etc. The higher the volume of dollars wagered, the less (all the way down to free) that these things cost.

Say you go to the track on a Saturday and put $X,XXX through the machines on that day. If you're betting using an MVP card, you should be able to show up on Sunday with free entry, free parking, free seating. If you bet more, maybe you get free $15 food voucher, free racing form, free program.

Not sure what this would do to the track's bottom line if they acted in this way. Maybe they've concluded these patrons will be there on Sunday either way. But, if it was financially feasible, I would give away a lot to the players based on their churn and make those coming out for entertainment (who usually bet very little) pay for that right.

[Cratos]

If you are going to the races purely for the entertainment value, then the admission would be equivalent to sporting events, or the movies, or a concert. But if the point is to bet, then the admission becomes something of a "tax." Tracks could better accommodate real bettors by providing some sort of voucher that has to be used to bet an amount equivalent to the entry fee. A voucher that could not simply be cashed in. Say the "entry fee" is $15 and you get a voucher for $10. With a 20% take they make another $2 when you bet, so an admission becomes worth $7. The other thing is that the less serious people have an incentive to at least bet the $10 voucher, and might actually bet more. One point of having admission is to discourage the riff raff from showing up, so I'm ok paying something to get in.
I don't know if racetrack entry tickets are too high, but if the Mets and Cubs are in the NL pennant series, the tickets if you can get them at Wrigley Field and CitiField are going to cost you a "few more dollars."

[thespaah]

I wouldn't go to the track even if the track paid me.

Even if I am at the track...I am sitting deep in the bowels of the building at the simulcast center...far away from the famed "track ambiance". I can do the same thing at home...where the surroundings are much more to my liking.
That isn't the point of the thread.

[thespaah]

I think the admission prices are appropriate on regular race days.
I am a bit surprised the European tracks charge as much as the OP noted.

[Robert Goren]

The price should be the same as any other gambling joint. Would you pay money to enter a Indian Casino? I would not! and the ones I have been to put most of the race tracks I have attended to shame when it comes to keeping up the facilities. I would mind paying a few bucks to get in they spent all of that money on paint and plumbing repair.

[proximity]

The price should be the same as any other gambling joint. Would you pay money to enter a Indian Casino? I would not! and the ones I have been to put most of the race tracks I have attended to shame when it comes to keeping up the facilities. I would (not) mind paying a few bucks to get in they spent all of that money on paint and plumbing repair.

about the only track i'd pay to get in ($8 + $3 parking) is timonium and they did paint a lot of the facility and upgrade the bathrooms this year.

there was talk of keeping the restaurant open year round as a simulcast facility but i'm not sure if they're doing that or not?? :confused:

[sharkie187]

I think the admission prices are appropriate on regular race days.
I am a bit surprised the European tracks charge as much as the OP noted.
The Euro tracks are pretty expensive to attend, but once you're in, its a different world! A very social event (with Turkey being the only exception).
You can checkout the prices to Newmarket for the final race meeting where the rock bottom price was 12GBP which translates to about $18.

[biggestal99]

Well the huge advantage being at the track in the uk is that you can price shop with the books, or if you are with a friend who has a betfair exchange account you can get down on a horse and NOT have to worry about the odds fluctuating, so yes i,ve attended uk races from fontwell in the south to mussleburg in scotland, paid the price. Loads of fun. Even at southwell fibresand races. :-)

Allan

[CosmicWon]

Little trick I've noticed here in KY starting with my old $5 KEEP Membership Card is that it allows you free admission to any KY tbred track (save Derby, Oaks, BC) and the KY Horse Park while the card is valid.

Politics have made me less supportive of KEEP these days but plan B is get a racing license. Ones in KY offer the same admission benefit PLUS ONE guest free admission too :)). The thing is also a godsend if I want to go watch workouts at CD before Derby or BC as well as get me on the backside easily.

The one I have is for Farm Mgr/Agent which costs $50/yr but has paid for itself many times over. I bet your state offers similar benefits.

Either go the cheap route and apply for a like $15 groom or "association employee" or all the way up to an Owner License in your own name at like $100. Cheap gets u same access as expensive.

Hope that helps!

[1st time lasix]

Well since I fly to Albany, rent a car, take out my hosts for dinners and cocktails each July ---I obviously do not care at all what Saratoga charges for my annual four day visit. I drive six hours round trip and stay in a South Florida hotel overnight to go to Gulfstream each winter for two days --so obviously i don't care what it cost there either. I go to Tampa once a year and I am not even sure what they charge me for clubhouse admission. In my humble opinion------ those who complain about the costs are simply cheap and probably should not be gambling at all--- particularly if the charge is prohibitive. What is the old saying "scared money never wins!" The same mindset that worrie about a cover charge is likely not the kind that tips well or picks up a round or two with his friends either. .... Anyone here need cheap friends? Life is too short for grumbling old misors or people who love their money more than their family. We all have just one life to live and there are no "do overs" Give to charity....pick up a check...do something kind by tipping a young person who is working more than anyone else that day....the reward far outweighs the cost!

[Redboard]

I don’t mind paying admission to a nice track, that has a good card. Tickets to horse racing are far below other major sports and a real bargain IMO. I think the tracks that will survive will be the ones that are attractive, have a nice ambience to the point where a guy can actually bring a date into. For some here, gambling is 100% of racing, for me it’s more like 50% and the experience at the track counts.

The problem here is that most of the tracks in the country are old. Christopher Kay, the NYRA CEO, commented that most of the popular sports stadiums in the country today are newer except for a handful (Wrigley , Fenway), and that filing the NYRA tracks routinely would be difficult. The NYRA tracks are old. Even Saratoga, although I love the old lady, would be better off being knocked down and rebuilt with a modern stadium. People like going to new stadiums.
I don’t see anybody building a new track these days, on par with a Keenland or Delmar.

[castaway01]

I don’t mind paying admission to a nice track, that has a good card. Tickets to horse racing are far below other major sports and a real bargain IMO. I think the tracks that will survive will be the ones that are attractive, have a nice ambience to the point where a guy can actually bring a date into. For some here, gambling is 100% of racing, for me it’s more like 50% and the experience at the track counts.

The problem here is that most of the tracks in the country are old. Christopher Kay, the NYRA CEO, commented that most of the popular sports stadiums in the country today are newer except for a handful (Wrigley , Fenway), and that filing the NYRA tracks routinely would be difficult. The NYRA tracks are old. Even Saratoga, although I love the old lady, would be better off being knocked down and rebuilt with a modern stadium. People like going to new stadiums.
I don’t see anybody building a new track these days, on par with a Keenland or Delmar.

Knocking down Saratoga and thinking that would attract more fans is perhaps the most misguided idea I've read on this forum in the last 15 minutes (it hasn't been a good day). But seriously, c'mon. How would destroying the history of the track make people want to go?

[Redboard]

Knocking down Saratoga and thinking that would attract more fans is perhaps the most misguided idea I've read on this forum in the last 15 minutes (it hasn't been a good day). But seriously, c'mon. How would destroying the history of the track make people want to go?

In virtually every other major sport, after a certain period of time, they build a new stadium and people love it and come out in droves.

And building a new track does not destroy the history of anything. Sheesh. have you ever been there?

[therussmeister]

These days the only track owners that can afford to build a new track are the ones chasing after casino money. Sports stadiums are almost always publicly subsidized. What politician is going to vote to subsidize a race track?

[raybo]

Well since I fly to Albany, rent a car, take out my hosts for dinners and cocktails each July ---I obviously do not care at all what Saratoga charges for my annual four day visit. I drive six hours round trip and stay in a South Florida hotel overnight to go to Gulfstream each winter for two days --so obviously i don't care what it cost there either. I go to Tampa once a year and I am not even sure what they charge me for clubhouse admission. In my humble opinion------ those who complain about the costs are simply cheap and probably should not be gambling at all--- particularly if the charge is prohibitive. What is the old saying "scared money never wins!" The same mindset that worrie about a cover charge is likely not the kind that tips well or picks up a round or two with his friends either. .... Anyone here need cheap friends? Life is too short for grumbling old misors or people who love their money more than their family. We all have just one life to live and there are no "do overs" Give to charity....pick up a check...do something kind by tipping a young person who is working more than anyone else that day....the reward far outweighs the cost!

All that's fine if racing is just entertainment for you. But, for those of us who have the primary goal of making profit, every bit of overhead (parking, entry fees, program costs, DRF/PPs/data file costs, printer paper and ink, food, drinks, etc..) subtracts from that profit. I'm not a "grumbling old misor (miser)", I recognized that added cost of overhead a long time ago and simply don't attend tracks anymore, but rather I wager online, a big portion of the reason for that is those added overhead costs. It's hard enough to be profitable without having those additional costs making it even harder.

[MonmouthParkJoe]

As it relates to my home track, Monmouth as many of you can guess, I use my players card to wager. As a result, I get two season passes with free parking and a calendar each year :)

I also get free live and simulcast programs. not to mention, I love going. Yes, it actually makes me go even more because I know with the exception of gas, I get everything free.

In light of all this, I would gladly pay $10 to get in. My reasoning is, when you allow patrons to bring in food and beer it makes the day so much more affordable. I like knowing I can bring in EXACTLY what I want to drink or eat. Plus when I bring my kids it is a lot cheaper in terms of bringing stuff for them too.

It really depends on the venue. Saratoga I would pay even more per day. Philly Park could give me a free $50 wager and free everything else and I still wouldn't go. Just don't like it there.

[proximity]

Philly Park could give me a free $50 wager and free everything else and I still wouldn't go. Just don't like it there.

go in the poker room with the parkettes.

you'll start to like it more. :)

[NorCalGreg]

Wow.....Expected to read a major bitch-fest and was pleasantly surprised. MonmouthJoe, 1stLasix, etc, and the guys that have been to Europe--good well-thought-out posts.
I wonder if, over in Europe, if racing on the decline at all...the way it seems to be here in America? You wouldn't think so, or they couldn't charge those admission prices. Is it the way it's presented here? Could it be cultural?
We can't get anyone to attend our races--over there they're charging top dollar--what's the deal?

[MonmouthParkJoe]

I am sure there are a number of my reasons, but I am pretty sure they don't have nearly the number of racing days that we do.

I tried to look up the racing calendar for Ascot and saw they run like two days in November, two in December. It makes for a very limited number of days. It makes for a special event. Top class racing and happens to be the place to be on that day. When you limit these things, people will come out in droves with the idea that if you miss it, it will be awhile until you can go again.

Using Saratoga isn't the best example because it is an anomaly in our sport, on the level of Keeneland and Delmar. Since the meets are so short, its get there before its gone. You know you are going to see the best in the sport and the stage itself is second to none.

I believe Saratoga charged $5 for general admission last meet. In all seriousness, would you not attend if they bumped it to $6? What about $10? Total paid attendance was $1.06 million. Now I know they count season passes into their daily attendance so if you bought a season pass they counted it as you attending everyday. I am not sure how many they cold, but even if you knock the number down to 900k general admission, that's $4.5 million in gate fee.

Could they realistically charge $10 in 2016 and get the same attendance or better? Possibly, and it would have a huge financial impact for them. Here is to hoping they don't, but I would pay it regardless due to the week or so I spend there each year

[dilanesp]

The responses about paying to go to the racetrack is odd when many of the same people will pay the high NFL, NBA, MLB, and NBA ticket prices.

I absolutely enjoy going to the racetrack although the only meet that I attend on a daily basis is the Saratoga Meet where I pay a lot for seating, I also attend Belmont, but not on a daily basis. I don't attend Aqueduct at all.

However the big hitter for attendance is the Ky Derby. With plane fare, hotel, car rental, and reserve seats for two; you will part with a few dollars.

I love the live racing experience. And I especially love the live racing experience when there's actually a big crowd and good horses on the track. Del Mar, Santa Anita on the biggest days, and the Breeders' Cup are all fun to attend.

If my only interest in horse racing was a gambling venture, I would very much agree with the majority of posters here-- just go on the internet or get me a table at a simulcast joint. Indeed, if I decided to pursue it seriously, i'd probably just move to Las Vegas and get myself a table at the Wynn sports book, with its beautiful leather chairs, big screens, and table service.

But I actually do like to watch the animals run around the track, and I love hearing a big crowd roar as horses duel down the stretch. At its absolute best, horse racing is a really great spectator sport, even if you have no serious money riding on the outcome. And I pay for that privilege.