Oregon College Shooting!!!

[Kash$]

10 People Killed, More Than 20 Injured in Oregon College Shooting: Preliminary Report (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB8QqQIwAGoVChMIs8KksfShyAIVydkeCh1FHA3P&url=http%3A%2F%2Fktla.com%2F2015%2F10%2F01%2Factiv e-shooter-reported-at-oregon-college%2F&usg=AFQjCNHnHl0_4SJMrqv-Y8IvjsuEbUWcPA)

[ebcorde]

I watching French24 TV on the net and they report 10 dead in a school shooting in the US

[PaceAdvantage]

There goes those pesky guns again...aiming and firing themselves at humans.

When will they learn?

[no breathalyzer]

We need more gun control in this country see.. :rolleyes:

[PaceAdvantage]

There goes those pesky guns again...aiming and firing themselves at humans.

When will they learn?How dare you be so flippant about this absolute tragedy! I'm disgusted with you PA...I'm leaving this site! :ThmbDown:

[Robert Fischer]

How dare you be so flippant about this absolute tragedy! I'm disgusted with you PA...I'm leaving this site! :ThmbDown:

i'm going to be doing some soul-searching

[NJ Stinks]

We need more gun control in this country see.. :rolleyes:

I guess you won't be happy until everybody and his brother is packing something. Too bad you weren't born in the late 1800's. You missed Shrangri-La by about 125 years. :rolleyes:

[Tom]

Well we live in 2015 and no matter what you think about guns, the fact of the matter is that there is no more dangerous place to be than a gun free zone.

Cue Goren to read the dissenting opinion here.......

[PaceAdvantage]

i'm going to be doing some soul-searchingI'm getting a little tired of these shootings getting all this coverage and all this hand-wringing.

It's a tough world out there. TONS of people DIE every day for a whole host of reasons, MANY of them tragic.

Yet these shootings are put in our face front and center because they are to be POLITICIZED by the media in order to foster a growing sentiment towards MORE gun control...as if we don't have enough already to prove that it doesn't work.

How come there aren't big RED BOLD BREAKING NEWS items every weekend when scores of people are gunned down in the inner cities of Chicago and Baltimore? That's NEVER front page BLINKING NEON SIGN coverage on the major news websites...but somebody goes and shoots up a college campus or a movie theater, and I'm supposed to sit here and cry my eyes out and feel so sorry for people I've never met who were in the wrong place at the wrong time, and are only being reported as news because they were killed by a gun.

Sorry, but I refuse to buy into this bullshit any longer.

It's not the guns that are killing people. It's the NUTJOBS, the RELIGIOUS EXTREMISTS, the POLITICAL EXTREMISTS, and other miscellaneous mental defectives who are killing people.

And until the media starts addressing the mental health problems along with the variety of other short-circuits these people have and how we can help them BEFORE they go killing people, I am not going to buy into this media circus every time someone goes out and kills a bunch of people while using a gun as their method of death.

[no breathalyzer]

I guess you won't be happy until everybody and his brother is packing something. Too bad you weren't born in the late 1800's. You missed Shrangri-La by about 125 years. :rolleyes:


oh i forgot, every gang banger on the west side of Chicago got their guns legally.. give me a break. i don't even own a gun. but its my damn rite to if i see fit. Chicago has one of the strictest gun laws in the country . been working real well here. maybe everyone should follow suit :cool:

[ebcorde]

has been talking about the shooting and Putin all day.

Now they're saying "This happens every week in the US" interesting to get another country's spin.

[PaceAdvantage]

g "This happens every week in the US" interesting to get another country's spin.Tons of people die every day in every country around the world.

Tweet them that news flash.

Many of those people die tragically and it has nothing to do with guns. Another news flash for French TV.

This politicizing of shootings is getting more nauseating than the shootings themselves.

[NJ Stinks]

How come there aren't big RED BOLD BREAKING NEWS items every weekend when scores of people are gunned down in the inner cities of Chicago and Baltimore? That's NEVER front page BLINKING NEON SIGN coverage on the major news websites...but somebody goes and shoots up a college campus or a movie theater, and I'm supposed to sit here and cry my eyes out and feel so sorry for people I've never met who were in the wrong place at the wrong time, and are only being reported as news because they were killed by a gun.



Me! :jump: ME! :jump: Let me take this one! :rolleyes:

Maybe just maybe because nobody ever got shot and killed attending this Oregon school before today and now at least 10 people are dead. As opposed to gang-related killings or drug deals gone bad that occur in big cities on a regular basis.

[PaceAdvantage]

Me! :jump: ME! :jump: Let me take this one! :rolleyes:

Maybe just maybe because nobody ever got shot and killed attending this Oregon school before today and now at least 10 people are dead. As opposed to gang-related killings or drug deals gone bad that occur in big cities on regular basis.That's a terrible way to view what is essentially the same thing.

Let's just accept the minorities killing each other because it happens often enough...but if somebody goes on a rampage on a college campus...well HOLD THE HORSES THERE pardner...we can't have THIS happening...

WTF?

I'll tell you the REAL REASON. And it has NOTHING to do with the DRIVEL you just posted.

The real reason events like this get the NEON SIGN treatment is so regular middle America might get brainwashed into thinking we need more gun control. That's the folks who need convincing. All the liberal big cities are already brainwashed.

In order to get the liberal gun control agenda fully achieved, they need to get to all those folks who don't give two shits that a bunch of inner city minority gang bangers are killing each other. So they have to sound the alarms when a school or shopping plaza or some other "regular" place happens to be the site of the latest loony bird taking out their shortcomings on innocent bystanders.

Mental health my friend...that's the referendum this country needs...not more gun control.

Oh but let us wring our hands and cry for the dead today and scream "how terrible...why does this happen all the time...how can we stop this!"

Like that ever solves anything.

[TJDave]

I'm getting a little tired of these shootings getting all this coverage and all this hand-wringing.

It's a tough world out there. TONS of people DIE every day for a whole host of reasons, MANY of them tragic.



I want to know what's happening in Syria yet all three major news networks are fixated on this. Can't they take turns?

[Robert Fischer]

I'm getting a little tired of these shootings getting all this coverage and all this hand-wringing.

It's a tough world out there. TONS of people DIE every day for a whole host of reasons, MANY of them tragic.

Yet these shootings are put in our face front and center because they are to be POLITICIZED by the media in order to foster a growing sentiment towards MORE gun control...as if we don't have enough already to prove that it doesn't work.

How come there aren't big RED BOLD BREAKING NEWS items every weekend when scores of people are gunned down in the inner cities of Chicago and Baltimore? That's NEVER front page BLINKING NEON SIGN coverage on the major news websites...but somebody goes and shoots up a college campus or a movie theater, and I'm supposed to sit here and cry my eyes out and feel so sorry for people I've never met who were in the wrong place at the wrong time, and are only being reported as news because they were killed by a gun.

Sorry, but I refuse to buy into this bullshit any longer.

It's not the guns that are killing people. It's the NUTJOBS, the RELIGIOUS EXTREMISTS, the POLITICAL EXTREMISTS, and other miscellaneous mental defectives who are killing people.

And until the media starts addressing the mental health problems along with the variety of other short-circuits these people have and how we can help them BEFORE they go killing people, I am not going to buy into this media circus every time someone goes out and kills a bunch of people while using a gun as their method of death.

I see these shootings as a suicide, and as an extension of the suicide problem. Rather than just shoot themselves in the head, or hanging or whatever method, these shootings are about one last temper-tantrum, one last time for the shooter to feel some power. I think that's part of what makes it an attractive method of suicide. Most of these people either experienced a sudden loss, or feel powerless socially and financially.

I know that treating them as suicide is a bit unorthodox, but we tend to completely overlook the mental health aspect and jump into a gun debate. One side is saying he shot them because of a gun, and the other side is saying that if only the teachers and janitors had guns we'd all be safe. Both sides completely abuse the opportunity in order to make it a platform for their agenda. Both sides have investment and potential financial gain at stake.

The general public echos these stances, and we completely skip the mental health aspect. We'll gladly leave the mental health stuff to the giant conglomerates that manufacture and sell the medications. They are the experts after all, and surely have an ethical stake in our best interests in mind.

[FantasticDan]

PA, you sure did sprint to the lead in this thread with some extreme defensiveness. And you're leaving no doubt that you're much more upset about the "liberal agenda" than you are about the innocent loss of life.

What if you had a child sitting in that classroom? Still posting this cold-hearted "drivel", to borrow your word? :ThmbDown:

[PaceAdvantage]

PA, you sure did sprint to the lead in this thread with some extreme defensiveness. And you're leaving no doubt that you're much more upset about the "liberal agenda" than you are about the innocent loss of life.

What if you had a child sitting in that classroom? Still posting this cold-hearted "drivel", to borrow your word? :ThmbDown:The point is, I didn't have a child in that classroom.

Hundreds of children die every day in the USA...thousands of children die every day around the world. If I sat here and gave them their due like you want me to do about every gun shooting, they'd lock me up in the nuthouse because I'd be sitting there crying endlessly 24/7.

But because on this special day, somebody's child was killed by some psychopath using a gun, I'm supposed to care more about their death then the thousand others around the world who died today.

Makes no sense. Why is their death more tragic and more deserving of my grief then all the other children who died today?

Every parent who has a child die is tragic, as I know you will agree.

[NJ Stinks]

I'll tell you the REAL REASON. And it has NOTHING to do with the DRIVEL you just posted.



You call my comments CAPITALIZED drivel? :mad: That's it. I'm done here and I'm not ever coming back.


At least in the next five minutes....

[ebcorde]

Update - Witness says gunman in #Oregon college shooting asked students to stand up and state their religion before beginning to fire.

I'm getting nothing from US news

[woodtoo]

Hearing it may be revenge for the France train shooting, Alek Skarlatos was raised in Roseburg and attended Umpqua community college.

[woodtoo]

eggman aka Toby Renolds

[woodtoo]

The point is, I didn't have a child in that classroom.

Hundreds of children die every day in the USA...thousands of children die every day around the world. If I sat here and gave them their due like you want me to do about every gun shooting, they'd lock me up in the nuthouse because I'd be sitting there crying endlessly 24/7.

But because on this special day, somebody's child was killed by some psychopath using a gun, I'm supposed to care more about their death then the thousand others around the world who died today.

Makes no sense. Why is their death more tragic and more deserving of my grief then all the other children who died today?

Every parent who has a child die is tragic, as I know you will agree.
50 shootings in Chi-town last weekend, gun control city.

[woodtoo]

eggman aka Toby Renolds
false flag

[woodtoo]

Why no name yet? Is the scrubbing not over.

Cleansing the jihadi.

[zico20]

Update from O'reilly show. A student said the gunman lined up the students and asked each person what their religion was. If they said Christian, they were shot in the head. If they said none or another religion, they were shot in the leg.

[fast4522]

On that show they also made light of the shooter's name being withheld, thank your President for that lockout of information. You good little mushrooms, stay in lockstep with the spin.

[zico20]

President Obama just blamed EVERYONE for this massacre. What a POS.

[zico20]

On that show they also made light of the shooter's name being withheld, thank your President for that lockout of information. You good little mushrooms, stay in lockstep with the spin.

Obama also said we need to politicize this shooting. Like Rambo dead fish Rahm Emanuel said. "Never let a tragedy go to waste." Obama is going to play this up forever. It would not surprise me if he is quietly hoping for the next mass shooting to keep his ultimate goal of eliminating guns completely.

This college has NO armed security. It is not allowed. I can't believe they won't release the name. This has to come from the Feds and the WH. I can't believe nobody knows who the shooter is if he was a student. Or maybe they do and the Feds won't allow them to speak to the media.

[Robert Goren]

oh i forgot, every gang banger on the west side of Chicago got their guns legally.. give me a break. i don't even own a gun. but its my damn rite to if i see fit. Chicago has one of the strictest gun laws in the country . been working real well here. maybe everyone should follow suit :cool: Still pretty weak laws compared to most the developed world. Real strong gun laws have worked in every country they have been tried. Even a bad shot like me could kill more people with a gun than I could with a knife. I have said it before, but I will say it again. If you think having a gun in your home will keep the crooks out, Put up a sign saying. "The owner of this property has a gun and will use it on anyone who breaks in." There is a reason that there are none of those signs around. The reason is the gun is a target for every would-be killer out there. You are actually safer without the gun. Even the biggest gun nuts know I am right or they would have put up the signs ages ago. If you don't have a sign and you are saying you need a gun for self defense, you are lying.

[fast4522]

Still pretty weak laws compared to most the developed world. Real strong gun laws have worked in every country they have been tried. Even a bad shot like me could kill more people with a gun than I could with a knife. I have said it before, but I will say it again. If you think having a gun in your home will keep the crooks out, Put up a sign saying. "The owner of this property has a gun and will use it on anyone who breaks in." There is a reason that there are none of those signs around. The reason is the gun is a target for every would-be killer out there. You are actually safer without the gun. Even the biggest gun nuts know I am right or they would have put up the signs ages ago. If you don't have a sign and you are saying you need a gun for self defense, you are lying.

Pure horseshit on your part, as usual RG. The amount of intruders shot dead by people in their homes is huge. Name just released on the O'reilly show.

[FantasticDan]

Pure horseshit on your part, as usual RG. The amount of intruders shot dead by people in their homes is huge.Actually, you're the one peddling horseshit..

https://www.minnpost.com/second-opinion/2012/12/health-risk-having-gun-home

[no breathalyzer]

Still pretty weak laws compared to most the developed world. Real strong gun laws have worked in every country they have been tried. Even a bad shot like me could kill more people with a gun than I could with a knife. I have said it before, but I will say it again. If you think having a gun in your home will keep the crooks out, Put up a sign saying. "The owner of this property has a gun and will use it on anyone who breaks in." There is a reason that there are none of those signs around. The reason is the gun is a target for every would-be killer out there. You are actually safer without the gun. Even the biggest gun nuts know I am right or they would have put up the signs ages ago. If you don't have a sign and you are saying you need a gun for self defense, you are lying.

Not sure if serious or .......... :)

[Clocker]

Actually, you're the one peddling horseshit..

https://www.minnpost.com/second-opinion/2012/12/health-risk-having-gun-home

From the article:

If you have a gun, everybody in your home is more likely than your non-gun-owning neighbors and their families to die in a gun-related accident, suicide or homicide.

And if you own a car, everybody in your home is more likely than your non-car-owning neighbors and their families to die in a car-related accident, suicide or homicide.

[FantasticDan]

A gun's supposed purpose in the home is to make you and your family safer. Statistics clearly indicate it does the exact opposite.

Cars, tooth brushes, and chocolate chip cookies have nothing to do with the equation.

[Valuist]

Actually, you're the one peddling horseshit..

https://www.minnpost.com/second-opinion/2012/12/health-risk-having-gun-home

Anything out of Minneapolis is liberal biased, including this 3 year old article.

[Robert Goren]

Pure horseshit on your part, as usual RG. The amount of intruders shot dead by people in their homes is huge. Name just released on the O'reilly show. I take it you have a sign then.

[FantasticDan]

Anything out of Minneapolis is liberal biased, including this 3 year old article.Yes, while all the studies and statistics and percentages cited in the article may be objective, the fact that they were presented in a Minnesota newspaper (the horror!) invalidates all the findings.. :rolleyes:

Thanks for the :D :ThmbUp:

[Clocker]

Anything out of Minneapolis is liberal biased, including this 3 year old article.

The bias is obvious in this article. All sources cited are obviously anti-gun, and the "analysis" of the benefits of gun ownership is presented and dismissed by the author of the main anti-gun study. There is zero attempt to present the pro-gun side of the argument.

[davew]

has been talking about the shooting and Putin all day.

Now they're saying "This happens every week in the US" interesting to get another country's spin.

''We know that gun control laws work''

just look at the great success in IL and Chicago which has had 6000 shootings and 1000 gun caused deaths during last 3 years

[Clocker]

I take it you have a sign then.

I have one.




http://www.trapperman.com/forum/attachments/usergals/2013/02/full-24914-128782-neighbor_sign.jpg

[fast4522]

The numbers have always been with the law abiding gun owners, every year there are gains for gun rights. Those who politicize the issue for the anti gun crowd find it always backfires. When someone defends their home, often in the newspaper as home intruder shot dead all different situations. Sometimes a 90 year old widow, or a young son kills intruder all justified but counted as homicide by the bean counters.

[Clocker]

From Real Clear Politics:

At a news conference Thursday afternoon on the community college shooting at Umpqua Community College in Umpqua, Oregon, President Obama said gun control is "something we should politicize."


http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/10/01/obama_on_oregon_college_shooting_this_is_something _we_should_politicize.html

As usual, Obama spoke before getting any details on the shooting or the gun laws involved.

This from the leader of the folks that had fits about politicizing the deaths of 4 Americans in Bengazi.

[NorCalGreg]

I have one.




http://www.trapperman.com/forum/attachments/usergals/2013/02/full-24914-128782-neighbor_sign.jpg


I love it! The guy needs to put another sign underneath it saying:

ANYONE CAUGHT STEALING THIS SIGN WILL BE SHOT!

[Hoofless_Wonder]

As usual, Obama spoke before getting any details on the shooting or the gun laws involved.

Yup. Nobody can say that Barry isn't a two-faced elitist.

If the shooting turns out to be some short of jihad attack related to the actions of Alek Skarlatos, then "the details" will probably never come out, as the conversation about gun control or mental health becomes irrelevant.

It's a very scary world we live in.

[ebcorde]

''We know that gun control laws work''

just look at the great success in IL and Chicago which has had 6000 shootings and 1000 gun caused deaths during last 3 years

tell Jeb Bush that every time he says His brother kept us safe. And we already have the most people in jail than any other country, we do the most drugs. the most violent TV shows/movies. And 3 concurrent wars 2 lasting 11-14 years.
And for Historical purposes how many Presidents and congresspeople been shot. Any British crazies take a gun shot at the Royals?

quite clear we have a violence problem in America

and this Police chief with the "don't' use his name" He should have thought about that with Osama Bin Laden and George Zimmerman. That's all I heard was Osama Bin Laden for 10 years.


there are warts all over, why look at one wart in Chicago. when the warts are all over the body? Americans solve their problems with violence.

[Fager Fan]

The gun control reaction has little interest to me. Instead, I want to know where Obama is on Christians being massacred. He's right there, opening his big mouth, when the victims are black or Muslim, but has zero to say about Whites and Christians being massacred.

[thaskalos]

How dare you be so flippant about this absolute tragedy! I'm disgusted with you PA...I'm leaving this site! :ThmbDown:
Well...you COULD have waited until someone ELSE mentioned "gun control" before you started your tirade...no?

[Tom]

Why wait?
We all knew Obama's response would be fast, not wait for facts to come in, and wrong. Just we knew he would say nothing when cops were murdered.
He is an ass-clown and nothing he says matters.

My question to all you guys is what MORE can be done than is being done, some of it illegally, in Chicago?

And Dan, if I had a kid in that classroom, or any classroom,. I sure a as Hell would not want it to be a gun-free zone, or, as we call that in NY, the kill box.


Stop whining and offer serious, doable, real solutions.

[PaceAdvantage]

Well...you COULD have waited until someone ELSE mentioned "gun control" before you started your tirade...no?No. I liked my tirade. Needed to be said and as soon as possible.

[classhandicapper]

If there were fewer guns in the US, there would be fewer tragedies of this sort.

The problem is that once the cat is out of the bag and criminals have guns, law abiding citizens need guns to protect themselves from criminals. That goes double in an environment where the police have been castrated and our government is not doing its job of upholding our laws on illegal immigration.

These days thugs with rap sheets so long you need a file cabinet to store it all are made out to be victims and the police officers are made out to be criminals. Riots are considered be "venting". It's total BS.

If we had a sensible environment where the police and border control were appropriately held in very high regard, allowed to do their jobs correctly, but screened and trained better so fewer mistakes were made, that would be a good start to making people and business owners safer.

Criminals and rioters should be held in contempt and not considered victims of the police and society.

Investments should be made in those communities so they at least have a chance to get out of terrible environments.

We need better screening of who can get a gun legally. People with a record of SERIOUS mental illness should not be allowed to purchase a gun.

We need better controls on who can sell guns.

We are never going to stop all the crazies from doing things like this, but there are sensible things that can be done where I am sure both sides can find compromise that might reduce the probabilities.

[Clocker]

We need better screening of who can get a gun legally. People with a record of SERIOUS mental illness should not be allowed to purchase a gun.



Libs are opposed to reporting mental health data to the gun check data base, and tend to not comply, especially in blue states.

[classhandicapper]

Libs are opposed to reporting mental health data to the gun check data base, and tend to not comply, especially in blue states.

That kind of thing scares me also, but mostly because liberals could misuse the data to bar people from owning guns if they had a temporary period of depression or anxiety from the loss of a loved one or some other stressful event. The idea would be to only bar people with serious long term problems.

[ebcorde]

a special needs school, this kid had no business being near guns. initial reports seem similar to Adam Lanza the Newtown shooter. A kid with problems, pops takes off starts a new life leaving them behind,

[FantasticDan]

Stop whining and offer serious, doable, real solutions.Solutions to.. what? Don't you know there isn't any problem? Because lots of people die every day from driving cars to choking on Milk Duds. Just part of doing business on planet earth. And because 'merika.

If we need to do anything (and we don't), it's to get Obama to stop talking about having to do something and to stop him from letting in these jihadists who shoot up our schools. He needs to get his facts right before he makes stupid comments about innocents being shot to death.

[ebcorde]

Solutions to.. what? Don't you know there isn't any problem? Because lots of people die every day from driving cars to choking on Milk Duds. Just part of doing business on planet earth. And because 'merika.

If we need to do anything (and we don't), it's to get Obama to stop talking about having to do something and to stop him from letting in these jihadists who shoot up our schools. He needs to get his facts right before he makes stupid comments about innocents being shot to death.

I think Obama should launch an attack on the Russian airbase in Syria Today Just part of doing business on planet earth.

[FantasticDan]

I think Obama should launch an attack on the Russian airbase in Syria Today Just part of doing business on planet earth. :ThmbUp: :jump: We need you to be CiC or Sec of State. Instead of muslim african pinko traitors girly-men. :ThmbDown:

[Tom]

Solutions to.. what? Don't you know there isn't any problem? Because lots of people die every day from driving cars to choking on Milk Duds. Just part of doing business on planet earth. And because 'merika.

If we need to do anything (and we don't), it's to get Obama to stop talking about having to do something and to stop him from letting in these jihadists who shoot up our schools. He needs to get his facts right before he makes stupid comments about innocents being shot to death.

So I take that to mean you have nothing to offer?
How come every time "we have to have a national discussion" about something, the left has nothing to offer?

[ebcorde]

from a surprising source Sylvester Stallone in response to the Conn shooting

"That to me is our biggest problem in the future, is insanity coupled with isolation."


lot of gun nuts here. lol. would be fun to mount a Gatling gun on my pick-up and drive round like the Haji's do, should be allowed.

[Tom]

Things that are now illegal:

Murder
Bank robbery
Drugs
Prostitution


MY challenge to the left-leaners here - come up with a plan to stop any one of these to a level that you would call acceptable for gun ownership.

Once you have done that, we can all agree to adapt it to guns.

Until you can, please shut up.

[Tom]

POSUS says he is embarrassed of the US for the shooting.
Fair enough - we have been embarrassed of him for 7 years.

And this from the ass-hat who just handed over a nuclear bomb to Iran.

[Robert Goren]

The gun control reaction has little interest to me. Instead, I want to know where Obama is on Christians being massacred. He's right there, opening his big mouth, when the victims are black or Muslim, but has zero to say about Whites and Christians being massacred.I am assuming most of the dead in Oregon were Christian. I worry more about Americans than I do Iraqis of any faith. We need to get things straighten out here before we go half-cocked into another country again.

[Robert Goren]

I have one.




http://www.trapperman.com/forum/attachments/usergals/2013/02/full-24914-128782-neighbor_sign.jpg I hope you actually have that sign sitting in your yard. There are a couple of similar pictures floating around the internet. I live in as big of pro-gun state as there is and I have never seen a sign like that in any yard. Not one!

[Robert Goren]

That kind of thing scares me also, but mostly because liberals could misuse the data to bar people from owning guns if they had a temporary period of depression or anxiety from the loss of a loved one or some other stressful event. The idea would be to only bar people with serious long term problems.If you look at the recent rash of shooting, they are mostly done (but certainly not all) by people who have mental issues for a very short period of time. The Colorado movie theater shooter is prime example of a killer who had only recently sought help for his issues.

[FantasticDan]

I hope you actually have that sign sitting in your yard. There are a couple of similar pictures floating around the internet.Nobody has that sign. It's just bad photoshop.

[ebcorde]

Things that are now illegal:

Murder
Bank robbery
Drugs
Prostitution


MY challenge to the left-leaners here - come up with a plan to stop any one of these to a level that you would call acceptable for gun ownership.

Once you have done that, we can all agree to adapt it to guns.

Until you can, please shut up.

Prostitution: LEGAL in Switzerland and Germany, Netherlands , bar girls in Korea, Japan
Bank Robbery: yeah right
Murder: See Europe, Japan, South Korea
Drugs: See South Korea, Japan. Same way they caught Bin Laden.



The majority of people who want to move here are people from the crappy countries. Say you live in Geneve, Switzerland, would you want your 10 year kid to move to America and go to school? It's not crazy thought to view us a dumping ground since the Pilgrims.

so Unless bikers, gangs have routine shootouts in public like WACO nothing will change. And it's too bad, the country is big enough, rich enough for everyone to live a good life in peace

[mostpost]

Why no name yet? Is the scrubbing not over.

Cleansing the jihadi.
The county sheriff had the name but refused to give it. Why? Because he didn't want to give him publicity or because he wanted to perpetuate the fiction that Harper was a Muslim terrorist? That same sheriff is actively pro gun-an odd stance for a law enforcement official.

[classhandicapper]

If you look at the recent rash of shooting, they are mostly done (but certainly not all) by people who have mental issues for a very short period of time. The Colorado movie theater shooter is prime example of a killer who had only recently sought help for his issues.

Guys like you and I can easily have bouts of anxiety or depression if they lose a child, lose a wife, lose their job, house, and family etc...

Doctors treat them for awhile and they are fine.

Then there are people that show signs of anti social behavior or serious mental illness. That's a different story. Even if someone just started treatment, you can often tell they have issues that make them dangerous. Doctors can tell the difference in most cases. The thing that scares me is that the left will also use a law like that to take guns away from a guy who is depressed because his son was just diagnosed with cancer and not just the guy that's about to go off the deep end.

[mostpost]

On that show they also made light of the shooter's name being withheld, thank your President for that lockout of information. You good little mushrooms, stay in lockstep with the spin.
Do you have any proof that Obama ordered the name withheld or was it just that maybe no one knew the name. If the shooter had no ID on him, it would take awhile to identify him. Or maybe you think they should have just picked a name at random out of the phone book.

[Tom]

Neither sentence makes any sense.

[Clocker]

That same sheriff is actively pro gun-an odd stance for a law enforcement official.

You need to get out more.

[mostpost]

Things that are now illegal:

Murder
Bank robbery
Drugs
Prostitution


MY challenge to the left-leaners here - come up with a plan to stop any one of these to a level that you would call acceptable for gun ownership.

Once you have done that, we can all agree to adapt it to guns.

Until you can, please shut up.
Here is my plan. At least three of the things you mentioned-murder, bank robbery and drugs-are greatly facilitated by the use of guns. Get rid of guns and you reduce the instances of those crimes.

Prostitution should be legalized, licensed and controlled.

[mostpost]

Libs are opposed to reporting mental health data to the gun check data base, and tend to not comply, especially in blue states.
Link?????

[Tom]

Get rid of guns and you reduce the instances of those crimes.

Not an answer.
Typical lib reply, though.
All fluff, no stuff.

The challenge is reduce one of the other crimes to a level that you would say was acceptable for gun crimes.

Try again, but see if you can borrow a brain first.
(Try a republican.)

[mostpost]

The point is, I didn't have a child in that classroom.
Most people have something called empathy. That's when, if something bad happens to some one else, you feel bad for them. Some people are lacking in empathy. Clearly you are one of those.

Empathy doesn't mean if you read someone's obituary in the newspaper, you feel as bad as if your grandmother died. It doesn't mean you weep for every bad thing that happens to every person on earth. It does mean that when a tragedy happens such as happened yesterday-where innocent people are killed in an environment where they should have been safe-your first and only reaction should not be, they are trying to take our guns away!!!!!!!!!!

[mostpost]

Not an answer.
Typical lib reply, though.
All fluff, no stuff.

The challenge is reduce one of the other crimes to a level that you would say was acceptable for gun crimes.

Try again, but see if you can borrow a brain first.
(Try a republican.)
70% of homicides in this country are committed with the use of a firearm.

[Clocker]

It does mean that when a tragedy happens such as happened yesterday-where innocent people are killed in an environment where they should have been safe-your first and only reaction should not be, they are trying to take our guns away!!!!!!!!!!

But Mom, Obama started it. :eek:

Linked below is the full text of Obama's remarks about the shooting shortly after it happened. A few obligatory remarks of concern, followed by a long, highly political diatribe about guns. He says straight out that gun control needs to be politicized, as if he hasn't been doing that for years.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/10/01/full-text-obamas-remarks-about-mass-shooting-at-oregon-community-college/

[FantasticDan]

Posted this after the last shooting.. or maybe it was the one before.. so hard to keep track..

Warning: Big boy language :blush: :rolleyes:

7OZIOE6aMBk

http://www.vox.com/2015/3/24/8283199/gun-control-comedy-jefferies

[Tom]

70% of homicides in this country are committed with the use of a firearm.
So you would be happy if 3 people were killed yesterday?
Yu will accept a gun control plan that reduces shooting by 70%?
That is the same rate you are saying you will accept for murders.

[Tom]

So this is how you prevent mass shootings?
Comedy?

[rastajenk]

70% of homicides in this country are committed with the use of a firearm.
I would bet that a similar percentage of the mass murderers in the last six or seven years used social media to develop a warped worldview.

I think we need to think about banning FaceTwitchSnapBook types of sites. Getting an anti-social manifesto out there is just too easy these days.

[FantasticDan]

So this is how you prevent mass shootings? Comedy?Not included in that short bit was the part where he talks about how his country (Australia) introduced and passed stronger gun control legislation in 1996 after a mass shooting killed 35 and wounded 25.

No mass shootings there since.

Huh! :bang:

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/port-arthur-massacre-shooting-spree-changed-australia-gun-laws-n396476

[thaskalos]

Guys like you and I can easily have bouts of anxiety or depression if they lose a child, lose a wife, lose their job, house, and family etc...

Doctors treat them for awhile and they are fine.


How do you KNOW that people are "fine after a little while"...when they lose a child? Have you ever experienced that yourself? You put "losing a child" in the same sentence as "losing a job"...as if the two were even REMOTELY related. Only someone with no children would ever make such a mistake.

[rastajenk]

I think his point was that suffering such a loss doesn't make a mentally healthy person murderous while he is suffering. That sounds like a rational assessment to me.

[thaskalos]

I think his point was that suffering such a loss doesn't make a mentally healthy person murderous while he is suffering. That sounds like a rational assessment to me.
And what I think is...that he needs help phrasing his "assessments".

[Tom]

Not included in that short bit was the part where he talks about how his country (Australia) introduced and passed stronger gun control legislation in 1996 after a mass shooting killed 35 and wounded 25.

No mass shootings there since.

Huh! :bang:

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/port-arthur-massacre-shooting-spree-changed-australia-gun-laws-n396476

1 Explain Chicago. Did not work there
2 This ain't Australia, population-wise or Constitution-wise.
3 What do you do about all the guns already out there?

My quest ism, you can';t stop drugs, murder, hookers, or illegals.
What are you going to do differently to solve this problem?
So far, your guys are batting 0.

[classhandicapper]

How do you KNOW that people are "fine after a little while"...when they lose a child? Have you ever experienced that yourself? You put "losing a child" in the same sentence as "losing a job"...as if the two were even REMOTELY related. Only someone with no children would ever make such a mistake.

People suffer from anxiety and depression for a variety of reasons that can be permanent or temporary in nature.

I assume no one ever completely gets over the loss of a child, but not all of them need medication. If they do, some eventually get off it and are stable even if the hurt never goes away. I have several close relatives that have lost children, including very young ones to disease or accidents. I speak from experience, though not my own.

Others react similarly from things that others would consider more minor. I know people that need drugs because they are under pressure at work or are going through a divorce. I have relatives like that too.

We are all wired differently and have different levels of strength and mental health. So we react differently.

None of that is the issue.

The issue is that a doctor can usually tell the difference between someone that had temporary issues and needed a low dose of xanax for a few months to get through it and someone that's about to explode.

[Clocker]

The sheriff heading the investigation in the Oregon shooting is a big critic of gun control laws, and says that stricter laws would not have prevented this shooter from getting guns.

The sheriff overseeing the investigation of the Oregon college shooting has been vocal in opposing state and federal gun-control legislation.

In an interview on TODAY on Friday morning, Douglas County Sheriff John Hanlin declined to comment on a letter that he reportedly wrote to Vice President Joe Biden in the wake of the Sandy Hook massacre in 2012.

Hanlin sent his letter to Biden in 2013, saying he and his deputies would refuse to enforce new gun-control restrictions "offending the constitutional rights of my citizens."



http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/oregon-college-shooting/oregon-shooting-sheriff-john-hanlin-opponent-gun-control-n437336

[Grits]

Two observations, if you gentlemen don't mind my adding. This is from years of experience and communication with behavioral problems of children.

Often, at an early age, the first person to suspect a problem, an abnormal behavior in a young child is not his or her parents, as we are led to believe. No, not at all. It's a teacher, and usually that teacher has seen much throughout his or her tenure, to back up their concerns.

Parents, though, get quite angry, a good deal of the time. They are in denial, when called to school for a conference, even repeatedly, sometime taking years to accept that their child has a very real issue that can progress and escalate. The teacher's desire is to help her student. These children need the attention of other professionals/physicians which could include evaluation to assist diagnosis, talk therapy, and often (but not always) medication to help them move forward.

Another problem I've realized is that many "baby boomers", of which I am one, have done the poorest job of parenting of any and all generations. There are many reasons for this, but in recent years one of the greatest has been the nonstop play of violence found in video games. This was one of the first notes reported about this shooter...

"I love killing Zombies", he stated. It was on his social media page. This steady diet of violence, sometimes hours a day, or night, has given birth to a level of rabid fixation that fuels fantasy. For one struggling with reality, video games are gasoline thrown on a bonfire. .... Sadly, to the parent, who doesn't want to be bothered, they're a babysitter to their child while they continue to be in denial regarding what educators have shared with them. There is no greater disservice to a child than to lack time for them, or worse, to ignore them. None.

The breakdown for these individuals has come long, long before the handgun or rifle was purchased. Decades before they explode. Some of it may have been able to be diverted with commitment, guidance, love, and less denial from parents. :(

[Clocker]

Another problem I've realized is that many "baby boomers", of which I am one, have done the poorest job of parenting of any and generations. There are many reasons for this, but in recent years one of the greatest has been the nonstop play of violence found in video games. This was one of the first notes reported about this shooter...

Boomers, especially middle and upper class, tend to be "helicopter parents", hovering over their kids, protecting them from reality, and giving everyone a trophy just for participating. The video games are a symptom, not a cause. The games are but one aspect of "parenting" without direct supervision or holding kids responsible for what they do. Boomers are not parents, they are baby sitters. Actions have no consequences or discipline, only appeasement to keep the kids quiet.

[Grits]

Boomers, especially middle and upper class, tend to be "helicopter parents", hovering over their kids, protecting them from reality, and giving everyone a trophy just for participating. The video games are a symptom, not a cause. The games are but one aspect of "parenting" without direct supervision or holding kids responsible for what they do. Boomers are not parents, they are baby sitters. Actions have no consequences or discipline, only appeasement to keep the kids quiet.

Vastly true and agree with you, but I'm not in agreement on the video games as I feel its a continuation--violence begets violence.

Among us "boomers" though, there are exceptions--there are some fine parents. ;)

[woodtoo]

Why no name yet? Is the scrubbing not over.

Cleansing the jihadi.
Repeat till the stain is removed.

[zico20]

Here is my plan. At least three of the things you mentioned-murder, bank robbery and drugs-are greatly facilitated by the use of guns. Get rid of guns and you reduce the instances of those crimes.

Prostitution should be legalized, licensed and controlled.

If you want to totally get rid of guns then you must completely seal the border. Nobody gets in, period. I guess the Democrats really aren't that serious about getting rid of guns, are they?

[Tom]

Democrats aren't serious about anything.
As we have seen in this thread with the LIV replies to how to solve the problem. To a lib, just mentioning it is dong something about it. Results do not matter, just feeling good about it and blaming it on someone else.

[classhandicapper]

Two observations, if you gentlemen don't mind my adding. This is from years of experience and communication with behavioral problems of children.

Often, at an early age, the first person to suspect a problem, an abnormal behavior in a young child is not his or her parents, as we are led to believe. No, not at all. It's a teacher, and usually that teacher has seen much throughout his or her tenure, to back up their concerns.

Parents, though, get quite angry, a good deal of the time. They are in denial, when called to school for a conference, even repeatedly, sometime taking years to accept that their child has a very real issue that can progress and escalate. The teacher's desire is to help her student. These children need the attention of other professionals/physicians which could include evaluation to assist diagnosis, talk therapy, and often (but not always) medication to help them move forward.



You are 100% correct.

I have a younger brother with Aspergers. My entire family knew from very early on he was a little different, but we didn't think much about it beyond that. It was a teacher that recommended that we take him to see a professional. That was over 45 years ago when very few doctors even knew what Aspergers was. In fact, we didn't get an official diagnosis until about 30 years later.

By the way, I think one of the kids that went off the deep end and shot a lot of people had Aspergers. I worry about that with my brother, but not in a gun way. He's not like that at all. I could imagine him having a moment of anger where he threw something at me or my mother even though he hasn't done anything like that before.

[zico20]

I found this!!!! Here is the killers bio from a dating website. You won't believe this but he is a conservative Republican who is into wicca and the occult. What a strange combination.

http://www.wnd.com/2015/10/oregon-shooter-into-occult-wiccan/?cat_orig=us

[NJ Stinks]

On that show they also made light of the shooter's name being withheld, thank your President for that lockout of information. You good little mushrooms, stay in lockstep with the spin.



..... I can't believe they won't release the name. This has to come from the Feds and the WH. I can't believe nobody knows who the shooter is if he was a student. Or maybe they do and the Feds won't allow them to speak to the media.

Oh really? So it's Obama's fault you didn't get a name?

Right. :rolleyes:
________________________________

Sheriff Hanlin said during the press conference that officials were still working to notify victims next-of-kin and said the medical examiner’s office was expected to release their names and brief biographies Friday afternoon.

Hanlin has refused to name the gunman out of deference to the victims and their families, and chastised the media for reporting his name, saying it “glorified” a murderer.

Link: http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/02/oregon-college-shooting-gun-control-roseburg

[Dahoss2002]

I have said it before, but I will say it again. If you think having a gun in your home will keep the crooks out, Put up a sign saying. "The owner of this property has a gun and will use it on anyone who breaks in." There is a reason that there are none of those signs around. The reason is the gun is a target for every would-be killer out there. You are actually safer without the gun. Even the biggest gun nuts know I am right or they would have put up the signs ages ago. If you don't have a sign and you are saying you need a gun for self defense, you are lying.
So you tell everyone your "business"? With all due respect, any kind of sign telling the owners intentions is STUPID!!!!

[lamboguy]

the use of guns is attribute of deteriorated brain cells being passed on by parents that have stuffed their body's with rotten drugs like anxiety pills and plenty of other dope that they used to drown their troubles away along with the use of chemicals to treat the food supply we eat and pass the problems to present and future generations.

[Robert Goren]

So you tell everyone your "business"? With all due respect, any kind of sign telling the owners intentions is STUPID!!!!You would think that if a sign would keep the crooks away, you would put one up. Home security firms uses signs all the time. Policemen wear their guns in plain sight. They do it because advertising in those cases works. There is only one reason a gun owner wouldn't put up a sign, despite what he says, he knows that guns in the home does not detour breaks in, but in fact does the exact opposite and encourage them. If you have a gun in your home, get rid of it, you will be safer. If you insist that I am wrong, then put up the sign. Stop being a tool of the gun industry. The gun industry does not care how many innocent people are killed by their products as long as they get there money. They are not even interested in keeping guns out the hands of crazies.

[Robert Goren]

The gunman is Chris Mercer, a loner who seldom seen in public, but when he was, he was almost always seen in military attire. He had a long term mental problems dating back 10 years. He was a "gun nut". 6 guns were found at the scene and another 7 more were found at his home. He left a note which has been described "hateful writings", but I could not find a copy of it anywhere. I always get real suspicious when that happens. I wonder what kind of right wing propaganda it contains. In this day and age, only manifestos of right wing killer nuts are kept secret. People like Drudge make sure any left wing ramblings come out.

[Fager Fan]

The gunman is Chris Mercer, a loner who seldom seen in public, but when he was, he was almost always seen in military attire. He had a long term mental problems dating back 10 years. He was a "gun nut". 6 guns were found at the scene and another 7 more were found at his home. He left a note which has been described "hateful writings", but I could not find a copy of it anywhere. I always get real suspicious when that happens. I wonder what kind of right wing propaganda it contains. In this day and age, only manifestos of right wing killer nuts are kept secret. People like Drudge make sure any left wing ramblings come out.

We already know he hated religion and/or Christians which wouldn't be described as "right wing". I don't see why any reasoning these hateful people use to justify their actions should be labeled either "right" or "left" as if either side nurtures these massacres and is therefore somehow to blame.

[Tom]

Bobby, the manifesto of a left wing nut who has murdered far people than this guys was front and center in the news this week.

That bitch from Planned Parenthood - far more dangerous than any lone gunman.

Meanwhile, still not a single intelligent reply from any libs here on how to address the shooting problem.

Guns don't kill people, Planned Parenthood kills people.

I don't see why any reasoning these hateful people use to justify their actions should be labeled either "right" or "left" as if either side nurtures these massacres and is therefore somehow to blame.
That is all Bobby understands - blame someone else for everything.

[zico20]

Oh really? So it's Obama's fault you didn't get a name?

Right. :rolleyes:
________________________________

Sheriff Hanlin said during the press conference that officials were still working to notify victims next-of-kin and said the medical examiner’s office was expected to release their names and brief biographies Friday afternoon.

Hanlin has refused to name the gunman out of deference to the victims and their families, and chastised the media for reporting his name, saying it “glorified” a murderer.

Link: http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/02/oregon-college-shooting-gun-control-roseburg

When you politicize an issue you open yourself up to questions and allegations. The sheriff was doing it for what he believed was moral reasons, not political. Maybe the Feds or Obama didn't want to immediately release his name or picture right away because he was a black guy. The length of time it took for the Feds to release his name was unusually long. We should get answers as to why they would not release his name. How far up the federal chain did it go as to why they would not release information in a timely manner.

[zico20]

You would think that if a sign would keep the crooks away, you would put one up. Home security firms uses signs all the time. Policemen wear their guns in plain sight. They do it because advertising in those cases works. There is only one reason a gun owner wouldn't put up a sign, despite what he says, he knows that guns in the home does not detour breaks in, but in fact does the exact opposite and encourage them. If you have a gun in your home, get rid of it, you will be safer. If you insist that I am wrong, then put up the sign. Stop being a tool of the gun industry. The gun industry does not care how many innocent people are killed by their products as long as they get there money. They are not even interested in keeping guns out the hands of crazies.

You and Fantastic Dan are assuming three things about gun ownership in the home not being safer. First, that someone is mentally unstable (suicidal). Second, that someone in the home is domestically abusive and violent. Third, that gun owners are irresponsible by leaving loaded guns out in the open for kids to get their hands on it or the gun owner doesn't know how to properly handle a gun.

If none of these three are present, having guns in the home makes you unquestionably much safer. Lets do an example. According to you then, if I was single and well trained in using a firearm and moved into a very high crime neighborhood and had expensive items in my home that were visible if anyone looked in my windows, I should not have a loaded gun under my mattress for protection. I put myself in much greater danger with a gun. Really? Could you please tell me why I would not be safer if I know how to handle and fire a gun with expertise. I will be waiting for your answer.

I have always had guns in my house. My wife and girls know how to use a gun because I properly trained them. When they were younger the guns were always locked where they could not get to them.

[Robert Goren]

You and Fantastic Dan are assuming three things about gun ownership in the home not being safer. First, that someone is mentally unstable (suicidal). Second, that someone in the home is domestically abusive and violent. Third, that gun owners are irresponsible by leaving loaded guns out in the open for kids to get their hands on it or the gun owner doesn't know how to properly handle a gun.

If none of these three are present, having guns in the home makes you unquestionably much safer. Lets do an example. According to you then, if I was single and well trained in using a firearm and moved into a very high crime neighborhood and had expensive items in my home that were visible if anyone looked in my windows, I should not have a loaded gun under my mattress for protection. I put myself in much greater danger with a gun. Really? Could you please tell me why I would not be safer if I know how to handle and fire a gun with expertise. I will be waiting for your answer.

I have always had guns in my house. My wife and girls know how to use a gun because I properly trained them. When they were younger the guns were always locked where they could not get to them.If you have your gun stored safely in a lock box, chances are that you would not be able to get to it before you were killed by an intruder after your gun. Having a gun moves you up the target list. There are few things in a home that are more valuable to a burglar than a gun.

[johnhannibalsmith]

...

Meanwhile, still not a single intelligent reply from any libs here on how to address the shooting problem.

...

Pick half the population at random and drop them in the ocean. Watch the problem be reduced by 50%.

[zico20]

If you have your gun stored safely in a lock box, chances are that you would not be able to get to it before you were killed by an intruder after your gun. Having a gun moves you up the target list. There are few things in a home that are more valuable to a burglar than a gun.

Now that my girls are older I keep my gun under my mattress. I can get to it in half a second. You are also assuming two things. First, that a burglar knows you have guns in the house, which most do not know. Second, that a burglar breaks in without you knowing about it. More times than not a person knows someone is breaking in and either calls police or pulls a gun. Rarely is someone surprised and has no time to act.

[FantasticDan]

Meanwhile, still not a single intelligent reply from any libs here on how to address the shooting problem. :D When it's suggested that the US introduce some "common sense" gun laws that have been hugely successful in other countries, your response is, 'The US ain't other countries'..

That's partially right. Other countries don't have the cowardly politicians we do who are beholden to the NRA..

What gun reforms are you for, Tom? Do you acknowledge that there's even a problem? Any ideas of your own, or do you just like to belittle the suggestions of others?

[thaskalos]

When I was 18 years-old, I was walking home from work at around 10:30 PM with a couple of friends...when a jeep suddenly cut us off in an alley, and we were attacked by a bunch of baseball bat-wielding teenage hoodlums. That we survived with only minor bruises I've always considered a major miracle. A few years later...I was robbed at gunpoint in a downtown Chicago elevator...and relieved of a substantial amount of money which I had worked hard to put together. The fear that I felt during both these instances was something that I promised myself I would never feel again. It made no sense to me that a person who is minding his own business should ever live in fear of being subjected to bodily harm...or worse.

I own a gun...and it isn't locked up in my home; it's in my car...or, at times, even on my person. I couldn't care less what the laws of the land say; to me...the "right to bear arms" means that my weapon should be of service to me, when I need it the most.

The CRIMINALS should be afraid...not the common man on the street who is minding his own business.

[Clocker]

That's partially right. Other countries don't have the cowardly politicians we do who are beholden to the NRA..



Gun opponents always refer to the NRA as if it was a monolithic, independent entity, answerable to no one, riding roughshod over the political world with its own evil agenda.

The NRA is a lobbyist, representing the interests of its constituents. It is no different than other powerful lobbies like the AARP or the teachers union. Like them, it has power because it can deliver money, and more importantly, votes.

The libs attack the NRA straw man, ignoring the reality that a very large and vocal segment of US citizens see no need for more gun controls, and even scarier to them, a large majority of Americans believe in the right to own firearms.

[Greyfox]

.the "right to bear arms" means that my weapon should be of service to me, when I need it the most.



I agree. Owning a personal hand gun for self defense seems logical particularly if you are living in a city such as Chicago.

But why oh why would anyone except police or military need an Assault rifle or Assault automatic weaponry for their own personal defense?

I think the sale of Assault weapons should have strong controls on them.

https://img.rt.com/files/news/42/2b/00/00/us-kalashnikovs-now-sold.jpg

[FantasticDan]

I agree. Owning a personal hand gun for self defense seems logical particularly if you are living in a city such as Chicago.

But why oh why would anyone except police or military need an Assault rifle or Assault automatic weaponry for their own personal defense?

I think the sale of Assault weapons should have strong controls on them. :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: Thank you Greyfox for showing some good conservative common sense. ;)

Closing loopholes, more rigorous background checks and wait periods, limiting or eliminating internet purchases and certain types of ammo, etc. All more common sense stuff.

Former Chief Justice Warren Burger, conservative appointee by Nixon:

"The Second Amendment has been the subject of one of the greatest pieces of fraud, I repeat the word 'fraud,' on the American public by special interest groups I have ever seen in my lifetime."

Ain't it the truth.

[Clocker]

But why oh why would anyone except police or military need an Assault rifle or Assault automatic weaponry for their own personal defense?



To nitpick, "assault weapon" is a made-up term used by gun grabbers to demonize weapons they find especially offensive and evil looking and scary. The definition of assault weapons in gun control laws is largely based on cosmetic features. Also automatic weapons are highly restricted and generally out of the reach of the average gun owner.

That said, few gun owners would suggest the use of "assault weapons" for self-defense. Gun owners feel they have a right to own "assault weapons", and want to do so for various reasons, including hunting and target shooting.

"Need" is not relevant to the discussion, any more than a car enthusiast needs a muscle car.

[Greyfox]

Gun owners feel they have a right to own "assault weapons", and want to do so for various reasons, including hunting and target shooting.

"Need" is not relevant to the discussion, any more than a car enthusiast needs a muscle car.

I think need is absolutely relevant to the discussion.
Buying a shot gun for duck hunting or a rifle for game hunting (moose, deer) and so on does not require automatic weaponry. I have several friends who are avid hunters and they don't buy Kalashnikov style arms, nor do they need them for their purposes.
Assault weaponry should be strictly limited to police and military.

[Clocker]

I think need is absolutely relevant to the discussion.
Buying a shot gun for duck hunting or a rifle for game hunting (moose, deer) and so on does not require automatic weaponry. I have several friends who are avid hunters and they don't buy Kalashnikov style arms, nor do they need them for their purposes.
Assault weaponry should be strictly limited to police and military.

The weapon you pictured is not an automatic weapon and is not a assault weapon except under some poorly written laws.

And the last thing a free citizen wants is the government deciding and regulating "need". Think about the consequences. :eek:

[elysiantraveller]

I think need is absolutely relevant to the discussion.
Buying a shot gun for duck hunting or a rifle for game hunting (moose, deer) and so on does not require automatic weaponry. I have several friends who are avid hunters and they don't buy Kalashnikov style arms, nor do they need them for their purposes.
Assault weaponry should be strictly limited to police and military.

I use my AR for everything that involves a rifle. From pest removal to deer hunting up north. It serves.a perfectly practical purpose for this outdoorsman.

[AndyC]

I think need is absolutely relevant to the discussion.
Buying a shot gun for duck hunting or a rifle for game hunting (moose, deer) and so on does not require automatic weaponry. I have several friends who are avid hunters and they don't buy Kalashnikov style arms, nor do they need them for their purposes.
Assault weaponry should be strictly limited to police and military.


I live in California, do I "need" earthquake insurance? Do I "need" a sprinkler system in my house in case of fires? Hopefully I will need neither, but I have both. So in your definition of need is it one of planned use or one of want the option but hope you never use it?

[Greyfox]

The weapon you pictured is not an automatic weapon and is not a assault weapon except under some poorly written laws.

And the last thing a free citizen wants is the government deciding and regulating "need". Think about the consequences. :eek:

I'm not a gun expert.
The weapon pictured is a Kalashnikov AK 47 and is apparently semi-automatic and can fire off 30 shots a minute. I guess modified it can be made to fire 300 rounds in a minute. Who needs to fire of that kind of ammo?
But my point is, why would anyone except police or military need one?
Yeah, there might be the odd guy who likes to pretend he's Al Capone and fire into a pile of garbage to target shooting?
The vast majority of us are not of that mindset and putting that type of weapon on the open market for consumers to buy is absolutely inviting mass shootings.

If you know anything about Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, Safety is a very fundamental need for humans.
I would suggest that many of government's laws are based on making regulations for that need. Think about the consequences of laws that aren't based to a certain extent on needs.

eNAohtjG14c

[elysiantraveller]

I'm not a gun expert.
The weapon pictured is a Kalashnikov AK 47 and is apparently semi-automatic and can fire off 30 shots a minute. I guess modified it can be made to fire 300 rounds in a minute. Who needs to fire of that kind of ammo?
But my point is, why would anyone except police or military need one?
Yeah, there might be the odd guy who likes to pretend he's Al Capone and fire into a pile of garbage to target shooting?
The vast majority of us are not of that mindset and putting that type of weapon on the open market for consumers to buy is absolutely inviting mass shootings.

If you know anything about Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, Safety is a very fundamental need for humans.
I would suggest that many of government's laws are based on making regulations for that need. Think about the consequences of laws that aren't based to a certain extent on needs.

eNAohtjG14c

No it can't. Its a semiautomatic weapon that fires every time you pull the trigger. Even if it was and could do 300 rounds a minute it would require a reload TEN TIMES.

[Greyfox]

No it can't. Its a semiautomatic weapon that fires every time you pull the trigger. Even if it was and could do 300 rounds a minute it would require a reload TEN TIMES.

On the net it says that it can be modified to do that.
That's not the point though.
Let's not quibble about how many rounds it can shoot.
The point is that type of weaponry (multiple rounds per minute) should be limited to the police and military.
It sure would be fairer if those deer could shoot back at you. :D

[AndyC]

....It sure would be fairer if those deer could shoot back at you. :D

Do you really believe that the 2nd amendment is about hunting?

[FantasticDan]

Do you really believe that the 2nd amendment is about hunting?Do you really believe that the 2nd amendment is about anything other than 18th century military purposes?

[johnhannibalsmith]

Do you really believe that the 2nd amendment is about anything other than 18th century military purposes?

I sure do. Like nearly every amendment it intends to prevent what authors already had experienced at the hands and whims of what they considered to be an oppressive government.

[Clocker]

Do you really believe that the 2nd amendment is about anything other than 18th century military purposes?

SCOTUS says it is.

[Clocker]

On the net it says that it can be modified to do that.
That's not the point though.


Modification is a federal crime.

Do you really want the feds outlawing things they decide you don't need?

[TJDave]

Like nearly every amendment it intends to prevent what authors already had experienced at the hands and whims of what they considered to be an oppressive government.

But it doesn't. Our government has assault weapons, tanks, attack helicopters...

We the people don't get to buy that stuff.

[elysiantraveller]

On the net it says that it can be modified to do that.
That's not the point though.
Let's not quibble about how many rounds it can shoot.
The point is that type of weaponry (multiple rounds per minute) should be limited to the police and military.
It sure would be fairer if those deer could shoot back at you. :D

It can't and every gun used in hunting is capable of multiple rounds a minute.

The lets not quibble about facts argument is the exact reason why there is no discussion because facts don't back up any of these statements. You're more likely to be murdered with hands and feet than one of those guns. Pesky fact...

[Tom]

Do you really believe that the 2nd amendment is about anything other than 18th century military purposes?
I guess free speech limited too?

It is what it is - if you whiners want to change it, change the constitution.
Or is that part of it outdated as well?

One would think you would have no trouble getting enough votes to do that. Why is you are afraid to try? are you too lazy to try? Is Obama all mouth and no balls? (Rhetoric question - we all know the answer!)

Or is it just not in ht make up of a democrat to go by the laws?

Whatever, even if you change it, and pass all the laws you want, you will NEVER get rid of the guns. It didn't work in Chicago, even when they illegally tried to take guns. All talk, no walk.

[Tom]

Pick half the population at random and drop them in the ocean. Watch the problem be reduced by 50%.

47% might do it.

[thaskalos]

Those citizens who insist on buying machine-guns...are they arming themselves against the government?

[Tom]

If you have your gun stored safely in a lock box, chances are that you would not be able to get to it before you were killed by an intruder after your gun. Having a gun moves you up the target list. There are few things in a home that are more valuable to a burglar than a gun.

And if you have no gun, you have no chances.
So you would rather rely on the kindness of burglars?

How about you worry about you own ass and keep your nose out of everyone else's. You left leaning weenies think you know what is good for everyone else. You guys know nothing. It will take us decades to undo the damage you and your ilk have down to this once great country as it is.
Left thinking is deft thinking.

[Ocala Mike]

It's not necessary to change the Constitution, only to interpret it correctly.

[Greyfox]

You're more likely to be murdered with hands and feet than one of those guns. Pesky fact...

It is a pesky fact.
Every few months CNN and various newspapers flash :

BREAKING NEWS -

COLLEGE CAMPUS ON LOCK DOWN AS TERRORIST USING HANDS AND FEET AS WEAPONS ALONE ROAMS FREE.:D

[Tom]

:D When it's suggested that the US introduce some "common sense" gun laws that have been hugely successful in other countries, your response is, 'The US ain't other countries'..

That's partially right. Other countries don't have the cowardly politicians we do who are beholden to the NRA..

What gun reforms are you for, Tom? Do you acknowledge that there's even a problem? Any ideas of your own, or do you just like to belittle the suggestions of others?

Dan, you are all fluff and no stuff.
You have no ideas worth discussing.
You are as empty a suit as Obama, who is also nothing but mouth.
I have repeatedly made a viable suggestion for you left leaning weenies - change the constitution.

But obviously, no one your side of the aisle is up to the task of real work.
Why are you guys so afraid to follow the blueprint the FF gave us?

You can either get off your ass and do something real of sit home and hide behind :D

[Robert Goren]

To nitpick, "assault weapon" is a made-up term used by gun grabbers to demonize weapons they find especially offensive and evil looking and scary. The definition of assault weapons in gun control laws is largely based on cosmetic features. Also automatic weapons are highly restricted and generally out of the reach of the average gun owner.

That said, few gun owners would suggest the use of "assault weapons" for self-defense. Gun owners feel they have a right to own "assault weapons", and want to do so for various reasons, including hunting and target shooting.

"Need" is not relevant to the discussion, any more than a car enthusiast needs a muscle car.As a former hunter, I would not consider a person who uses an "assault weapon" a hunter. When I was a kid, we had a term for those types of hunters, but if I used it here I would get banned and rightfully so. Hint: it had racial overtones.

[Ocala Mike]

Left thinking is deft thinking.



Tom, I think your monkey typed an "e" instead of an "a."

The definition of deft is nimble, skillful or quick. Perhaps you meant daft, but thanks for playing.

[Robert Goren]

It's not necessary to change the Constitution, only to interpret it correctly. As it was until after the civil war.

[Tom]

I own a gun...and it isn't locked up in my home; it's in my car...or, at times, even on my person. I couldn't care less what the laws of the land say; to me...the "right to bear arms" means that my weapon should be of service to me, when I need it the most.

The CRIMINALS should be afraid...not the common man on the street who is minding his own business.

See, now you live in the real world.
Of course we have a problem, but making sure only the bad guys have guns is not a very intelligent solution.

Your solution is the only one in this thread that makes any sense at all.
Maybe Colbert will come with one for Dan.

[Robert Goren]

And if you have no gun, you have no chances.
So you would rather rely on the kindness of burglars?

How about you worry about you own ass and keep your nose out of everyone else's. You left leaning weenies think you know what is good for everyone else. You guys know nothing. It will take us decades to undo the damage you and your ilk have down to this once great country as it is.
Left thinking is deft thinking. I'd rather the burglars not have guns. Other countries have stopped them from having them and still allowed certain guns for hunting for true sportsmen such as shotguns.

[Tom]

Tom, I think your monkey typed an "e" instead of an "a."

The definition of deft is nimble, skillful or quick. Perhaps you meant daft, but thanks for playing.

A typo,,, so shoot me! :eek: :lol:

[thaskalos]

A typo,,, so shoot me! :eek: :lol:
It was a typo? I thought it was a compliment :)

[Tom]

I'd rather the burglars not have guns.

Me too.
I'd like to know how you plan to take all the one out there out of circulation.
Dan think they will magically disappear.

What do you deep thinkers think will be the response when cops go door to door in Baltimore and Ferguson to collect illegal guns?

[Tom]

It was a typo? I thought it was a compliment :)

YOU I won't mess with! ;)

[FantasticDan]

Dan, you are all fluff and no stuff.
You have no ideas worth discussing.
You are as empty a suit as Obama, who is also nothing but mouth.
I have repeatedly made a viable suggestion for you left leaning weenies - change the constitution.

But obviously, no one your side of the aisle is up to the task of real work.
Why are you guys so afraid to follow the blueprint the FF gave us?

You can either get off your ass and do something real of sit home and hide behind :DSo you respond to my criticism of your belittling with.. more belittling. How decidedly little-brained and Tom-like. :ThmbUp:

As to your viable suggestion (other suggestions are outright dismissed apparently), as Ocala Mike said, it's not necessary to change the Constitution, only interpret it correctly. Only a slight alteration to the amendment would do that to conform to the original intent of the founding fathers..

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-five-extra-words-that-can-fix-the-second-amendment/2014/04/11/f8a19578-b8fa-11e3-96ae-f2c36d2b1245_story.html

[Clocker]

As a former hunter, I would not consider a person who uses an "assault weapon" a hunter.

What is an assault weapon? Would you be offended by a hunter using a semi-automatic weapon? Some people on a limited budget hunt with older military type semi-autos. What is the problem if it is legal?

[Tom]

So you respond to my criticism of your belittling with.. more belittling. How decidedly little-brained and Tom-like. :ThmbUp:

As to your viable suggestion (other suggestions are outright dismissed apparently), as Ocala Mike said, it's not necessary to change the Constitution, only interpret it correctly. Only a slight alteration to the amendment would do that to conform to the original intent of the founding fathers..

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-five-extra-words-that-can-fix-the-second-amendment/2014/04/11/f8a19578-b8fa-11e3-96ae-f2c36d2b1245_story.html

Nice solution - violate the constitution.
Adding 5 words means CHANGE, Dan. You don't get to do that.
If you are not up to the challenged, Dan, give it up. :lol:

I'll even make a second logical suggestion - appoint enough judges to play politics and interpret the constitution to suit your needs.

So there are two for you.

[zico20]

So you respond to my criticism of your belittling with.. more belittling. How decidedly little-brained and Tom-like. :ThmbUp:

As to your viable suggestion (other suggestions are outright dismissed apparently), as Ocala Mike said, it's not necessary to change the Constitution, only interpret it correctly. Only a slight alteration to the amendment would do that to conform to the original intent of the founding fathers..

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-five-extra-words-that-can-fix-the-second-amendment/2014/04/11/f8a19578-b8fa-11e3-96ae-f2c36d2b1245_story.html

Interpret the constitution correctly? You mean like the 14th amendment that was only meant to apply to free slaves as far as being born here becoming citizens. How much more wrong can the Supreme Court be when they allow illegals to sneak across the border and have a baby. No, I think it's necessary to change the Constitution instead of leaving it up to 9 people who ignore the original meaning to meet their political ideology.

[elysiantraveller]

It is a pesky fact.
Every few months CNN and various newspapers flash :

BREAKING NEWS -

COLLEGE CAMPUS ON LOCK DOWN AS TERRORIST USING HANDS AND FEET AS WEAPONS ALONE ROAMS FREE.:D

Haha used humor to deflect away from the fact your point has no merit.

[elysiantraveller]

As a former hunter, I would not consider a person who uses an "assault weapon" a hunter. When I was a kid, we had a term for those types of hunters, but if I used it here I would get banned and rightfully so. Hint: it had racial overtones.

Sigh... Ignorance.

When is my AR an "assault weapon?" When it wears the 5, 10, 20, or 30 round clip?

Is there a cutoff?

If so when can't it be just another gun, because thats actually all it is, and it becomes worthy of derogatory slang?

[Inner Dirt]

If you have your gun stored safely in a lock box, chances are that you would not be able to get to it before you were killed by an intruder after your gun. Having a gun moves you up the target list. There are few things in a home that are more valuable to a burglar than a gun.

How about facts to back that up. Any law enforcement person I ever knew said a thief looks for the easiest mark first. Pulling a home robbery knowing the owner is armed would be the exact opposite and make for a pretty stupid burglar. Where I live gun ownership is high and pretty evident, target shooting and hunting is allowed on your own property. Lots are all one acre
and up, home burglaries are unheard of.

For the record I have a loaded .357 in an unlocked cabinet 6 feet from the bed and I am a very light sleeper. Anyone wanting to test whether I shoot an intruder before he shoots me can give it a go.

[FantasticDan]

If you are not up to the challenged, Dan, give it up. :lol:
C'mon Tom, I think it's pretty obvious that there's not many people here who can compete with your level of "challenged".. :cool:

[Ocala Mike]

The probability that a gun kept accessible in a home will someday be used to protect the owner and/or his loved one(s) is statistically insignificant compared to the probability that it will someday be used in some kind of "domestic" disturbance. Ask anyone "on the job."

[FantasticDan]

Story this week about about an armed civilian who witnessed a carjacking and opened fire.. shooting the victim in the head. :ThmbDown:

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/09/texas-good-guy-with-a-gun-shoots-carjacking-victim-in-head-then-runs-away/

"Quickly gathered up his shell casings and fled.."

Hey, good intentions, right? Too much. :bang:

[zico20]

The probability that a gun kept accessible in a home will someday be used to protect the owner and/or his loved one(s) is statistically insignificant compared to the probability that it will someday be used in some kind of "domestic" disturbance. Ask anyone "on the job."

The chances that a burglar survives after breaking into my house with my wife and I both excellent shots is statistically significant compared to if we didn't have any guns.

Since there is no domestic violence in our house, I don't have to worry about that.

[Robert Goren]

Me too.
I'd like to know how you plan to take all the one out there out of circulation.
Dan think they will magically disappear.

What do you deep thinkers think will be the response when cops go door to door in Baltimore and Ferguson to collect illegal guns? They started do just that in Australia. It will take time to get all the illegal guns out of circulation, but they will eventually. The number of homicides has plummeted there already.

[Robert Goren]

What is an assault weapon? Would you be offended by a hunter using a semi-automatic weapon? Some people on a limited budget hunt with older military type semi-autos. What is the problem if it is legal? They are making a mockery of the sport. What the point if you make it too easy. It is sort like putting the Green Bay Packers against a Pop Warner league team.

[Robert Goren]

Sigh... Ignorance.

When is my AR an "assault weapon?" When it wears the 5, 10, 20, or 30 round clip?

Is there a cutoff?

If so when can't it be just another gun, because thats actually all it is, and it becomes worthy of derogatory slang?The derogatory slang was not for the gun, but for the people who use them. Apparently, you have no idea what sportsman hunter is. The term also applies to people who use dynamite to fish in a farm pond. That gives you an idea of what real hunters think of those kind of "hunters". Now go out and drink a few beers, find a deserted country road some place and see how many rounds you and your "AR" can put into one those empty beer cans per clip.

[zico20]

They started do just that in Australia. It will take time to get all the illegal guns out of circulation, but they will eventually. The number of homicides has plummeted there already.

You do know that the number of homicides in Australia was minimal to begin with. So a 35% decrease is skewed to begin with. Also, did you know that since guns were banned in Australia in 1996 the crime victimization rate is the highest among civilized nations at 4.1%. Go figure.

Also, gun ownership has grown in Australia over the years as the government issues gun licenses at an amazing rate. With the expanding gun ownership, statistics have shown that gun related crimes have not increased. That would contradict more guns equals more gun violence.

http://therighttobear.com/the-inconvenient-truth-about-australias-gun-ban-liberals-want-hidden/

[Tom]

Story this week about about an armed civilian who witnessed a carjacking and opened fire.. shooting the victim in the head. :ThmbDown:

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/09/texas-good-guy-with-a-gun-shoots-carjacking-victim-in-head-then-runs-away/

"Quickly gathered up his shell casings and fled.."

Hey, good intentions, right? Too much. :bang:

Nice post....for the third grade.
Come on Dan, is that as good as you got? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Tom]

The probability that a gun kept accessible in a home will someday be used to protect the owner and/or his loved one(s) is statistically insignificant compared to the probability that it will someday be used in some kind of "domestic" disturbance. Ask anyone "on the job."

Life is a risk.
Guns are a right.

[zico20]

How about facts to back that up. Any law enforcement person I ever knew said a thief looks for the easiest mark first. Pulling a home robbery knowing the owner is armed would be the exact opposite and make for a pretty stupid burglar. Where I live gun ownership is high and pretty evident, target shooting and hunting is allowed on your own property. Lots are all one acre
and up, home burglaries are unheard of.

For the record I have a loaded .357 in an unlocked cabinet 6 feet from the bed and I am a very light sleeper. Anyone wanting to test whether I shoot an intruder before he shoots me can give it a go.

I am with you on the part about where we live. My subdivision has 125 houses and I would venture to guess at least 100 at the minimum own guns, many having multiple guns. There hasn't been a home burglary in years. Now, there have been items stolen out of peoples back yards, but they were not stupid enough to break into the home, and for good reason.

[Clocker]

They are making a mockery of the sport. What the point if you make it too easy. It is sort like putting the Green Bay Packers against a Pop Warner league team.

Some people hunt to put meat on the table. The honor is in feeding your family, not in proving that you are smarter than a deer. The mockery is asserting that killing a dumb animal from long range with a high power rifle is a sport.

The bigger mockery is sport hunters and trophy hunters who belittle "meat hunters" as inferior and unprincipled. Sport hunting is as pointless as catch and release fishing. Why bother if you aren't going to eat it?

[elysiantraveller]

The derogatory slang was not for the gun, but for the people who use them. Apparently, you have no idea what sportsman hunter is. The term also applies to people who use dynamite to fish in a farm pond. That gives you an idea of what real hunters think of those kind of "hunters". Now go out and drink a few beers, find a deserted country road some place and see how many rounds you and your "AR" can put into one those empty beer cans per clip.

See Goren this is the type.of stuff that pisses me off. You have absolutely ZERO idea of the type of sportsman I am but you want to pass judgement because I use a gun thats black for certain things. The fact it's only.holding 5 rounds has no bearing and neither do the thousands of dollars and dozens of acres I personally have devoted to the CRP.

I don't think your personally swiping at me but these sweeping generalizations are a joke. The reason a hunter and conservationist might use an AR is for something like coyotes. Ever seen one? They are FAST and slaughter all types of wildlife. If you miss, one of those nasty guns you judge people on is really quite handy as you can stay on target and fire a quick followup.

These are REAL LIFE applications for semiautomatic weapons in hunting but hey don't let your narrative confuse you.

[Clocker]

In Florida many years ago, there was a small crime wave of car jacking of foreign tourists. A reporter doing a study on this interviewed a number of criminals who had been convicted of the crime.

Asked why they started targeting foreign tourists, a big reason given was that Florida had just legalized concealed carry. They knew that there was no way foreigners were armed.

[horses4courses]

In Florida many years ago, there was a small crime wave of car jacking of foreign tourists. A reporter doing a study on this interviewed a number of criminals who had been convicted of the crime.

Asked why they started targeting foreign tourists, a big reason given was that Florida had just legalized concealed carry. They knew that there was no way foreigners were armed.

Why stop there, clock?
Sounds like an ideal opportunity for world domination.

Pathetic.....

[Clocker]

https://www.nationalreview.com/sites/default/files/newgunchart.jpg


https://www.nationalreview.com/sites/default/files/newgunchart.jpg

[Clocker]

Why stop there, clock?
Sounds like an ideal opportunity for world domination.

Pathetic.....

I don't have a clue what that means. Armed citizens are a disincentive to crime. What has that got to do with world domination?

As inane as your cartoons are, at least their intent is obvious.

[Tom]

I don't have a clue what that means. Armed citizens are a disincentive to crime. What has that got to do with world domination?

As inane as your cartoons are, at least their intent is obvious.

He has problems staying with a discussion because he is proven wrong so often. We call it scatterbrained. Like Goren goes off on ridiculous tangents with stuff he dreams up.

LIPs. :kiss:

[sammy the sage]

so guns are bad...BBBBBBuuuuuuuuuuuttttttttttttttt.....bombing hospitals and killing children...not so much.... :( :( :bang: :bang: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Tom]

Sammy, two atrocities committed this week by Black man.
Suppose it is not the weapons but the person?

[horses4courses]

I don't have a clue what that means. Armed citizens are a disincentive to crime.

Never mind.

It's just that the likes of Tommy Boy probably regards the
foreign tourists as weak for not being armed in the first place.

[Tom]

Never mind.

It's just that the likes of Tommy Boy probably regards the
foreign tourists as weak for not being armed in the first place.

Running away from yet another discussion?

[FantasticDan]

Sammy, two atrocities committed this week by Black man.
Suppose it is not the weapons but the person?Very confused by this comment. So you're accusing Obama of atrocities and specifically mentioning he is black. Correct? Why?

[NJ Stinks]

Running away from yet another discussion?

Congrats. You are now officially the most annoying blowhard you ever been since I got here.

[horses4courses]

Congrats. You are now officially the most annoying blowhard you ever been since I got here.

You know as well as I do, there are no discussions with Tom.

It's like a two lane highway where the roads never meet.
Just the occasional drunk driver veering into your path.

[Tom]

Well, I've got all three stooges mad at me.
And I haven't even had lunch yet.

Good day shaping up.

[Greyfox]

It's like a two lane highway where the roads never meet.


Huh? That analogy is beyond my comprehension ability.

[Clocker]

Huh? That analogy is beyond my comprehension ability.

Sorry, you have just flunked the Moonbat Brotherhood membership exam. :(

[horses4courses]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQdi-liXAAAlla5.jpg

[woodtoo]

Is this a repeat of Boston ? Didn't Russia also warn them then.

American black- islamist terror suspect Chris Harper Mercer had been on a list of 87,000 terror suspects that the CIA and INTERPOL refused to accept from the Federal S
ecurity Services last month. He was identified as an ISIS
adherent after he tried to gain passage to Syria from Turkey during the first week of September 2115.
Also important to note was Mercers association with ISIS terrorist
Mahmoud Ali Ehsani who is banned in Russia and was one of only two of Mersers MySpace "friends".

Why is the Obama regime and the media lapdogs disguising the truth from the American people. Not only misleading but presenting a totally false narrative ie: gun control, rightwing, white man, scrubbing of social media
when all along he could have been Obamas son.
You can tell from this thread he succeeded.

I feel for the victims and their families for being fed a pack of lies from this
administration. :ThmbDown: :ThmbDown: :ThmbDown:

[Robert Goren]

Is this a repeat of Boston ? Didn't Russia also warn them then.

American black- islamist terror suspect Chris Harper Mercer had been on a list of 87,000 terror suspects that the CIA and INTERPOL refused to accept from the Federal S
ecurity Services last month. He was identified as an ISIS
adherent after he tried to gain passage to Syria from Turkey during the first week of September 2115.
Also important to note was Mercers association with ISIS terrorist
Mahmoud Ali Ehsani who is banned in Russia and was one of only two of Mersers MySpace "friends".

Why is the Obama regime and the media lapdogs disguising the truth from the American people. Not only misleading but presenting a totally false narrative ie: gun control, rightwing, white man, scrubbing of social media
when all along he could have been Obamas son.
You can tell from this thread he succeeded.

I feel for the victims and their families for being fed a pack of lies from this
administration. :ThmbDown: :ThmbDown: :ThmbDown:That report has been proven not to be true.

[Robert Goren]

I don't have a clue what that means. Armed citizens are a disincentive to crime. What has that got to do with world domination?

As inane as your cartoons are, at least their intent is obvious.As many armed citizens as there are in this country, there should be no crime here.

[Robert Goren]

Some people hunt to put meat on the table. The honor is in feeding your family, not in proving that you are smarter than a deer. The mockery is asserting that killing a dumb animal from long range with a high power rifle is a sport.

The bigger mockery is sport hunters and trophy hunters who belittle "meat hunters" as inferior and unprincipled. Sport hunting is as pointless as catch and release fishing. Why bother if you aren't going to eat it? Names of those people who have to hunt to eat please? A deer killed by a hunter is among most expensive cuts around. Check out what it cost to get a deer butchered and processed. If you like deer meat that is fine, but try to me that it is cheaper than sirloin steak. The last time I check Deer meat was costing about $0.80 per pound higher than sirloin at the super market. If you decide to have some made in to jerky, the cost is even higher. It assumes that all the meat of the deer is usable, which seldom is.

[Robert Goren]

See Goren this is the type.of stuff that pisses me off. You have absolutely ZERO idea of the type of sportsman I am but you want to pass judgement because I use a gun thats black for certain things. The fact it's only.holding 5 rounds has no bearing and neither do the thousands of dollars and dozens of acres I personally have devoted to the CRP.

I don't think your personally swiping at me but these sweeping generalizations are a joke. The reason a hunter and conservationist might use an AR is for something like coyotes. Ever seen one? They are FAST and slaughter all types of wildlife. If you miss, one of those nasty guns you judge people on is really quite handy as you can stay on target and fire a quick followup.

These are REAL LIFE applications for semiautomatic weapons in hunting but hey don't let your narrative confuse you.Coyotes were real problem where I grew as kid. I took part in several coyote hunts where we lined up a 100 yards a part and attempt to scare up a coyote. I used a 30-30 lever action which somebody lent me. I think it was a Winchester, but I am not sure anymore. I never saw a coyote to shoot at, but the group always got at least one and one time I think we got five. As I remember, we usually got some raccoons as well. There may have been a few semi-automatics used the hunts, but I think most were some sort of bolt action. These hunts took place in the 1950s and early 1960s. I have heard of one being held in probably 40 years.

[Clocker]

Names of those people who have to hunt to eat please? A deer killed by a hunter is among most expensive cuts around. Check out what it cost to get a deer butchered and processed.

You need to get out more. There are still people in this country capable of butchering their own meat. That group generally does not include sport hunters.

[Clocker]

As many armed citizens as there are in this country, there should be no crime here.

Gun ownership is not a deterrent to crime in gun-free zones like schools and theaters and Chicago.

[woodtoo]

That report has been proven not to be true.
By whom?
I saw his MySpace the day of the shooting. It showed Mahmoud as a friend,
saw others scrubbed the next day. I don't believe Obama or the press.
Give me a reliable source, thanks.

[woodtoo]

gun-free zones = murder empowerment zones

The bravest person was the second person who admitted being a Christian.

[Robert Fischer]

‘I’ll be joining you soon’: Oregon college shooter planned suicide after gunning down students and instructor, survivor says (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/christopher-harper-mercer-planned-kill-witness-article-1.2384171)

[elysiantraveller]

Names of those people who have to hunt to eat please? A deer killed by a hunter is among most expensive cuts around. Check out what it cost to get a deer butchered and processed. If you like deer meat that is fine, but try to me that it is cheaper than sirloin steak. The last time I check Deer meat was costing about $0.80 per pound higher than sirloin at the super market. If you decide to have some made in to jerky, the cost is even higher. It assumes that all the meat of the deer is usable, which seldom is.

Numbers are off here. For standard processing its usually $70-$100 a deer which yields over 50 pounds of meat. If you order tons of jerky, salamis, and the like it can get expensive quick.

It's quite a bit cheaper.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren
As many armed citizens as there are in this country, there should be no crime here.

When's the last time you saw a mass shooting in an area where others had gun?

Guns don't kill people, coyotes kill people.

[Robert Goren]

When's the last time you saw a mass shooting in an area where others had gun?

Guns don't kill people, coyotes kill people.Off hand when Gabby Griffith was shot. Two policemen and two civilians were killed by a white separatist couple in Las Vegas a couple years ago. I am sure there are plenty of others, but I am in morning over the bad week my fantasy teams had and don't feel like googling them .

[TJDave]

The bravest person was the second person who admitted being a Christian.

Who was that? Tell us his name.

[Robert Fischer]

When's the last time you saw a mass shooting in an area where others had gun?

1984 Terminator Police Station Shootout

[Robert Goren]

Numbers are off here. For standard processing its usually $70-$100 a deer which yields over 50 pounds of meat. If you order tons of jerky, salamis, and the like it can get expensive quick.

It's quite a bit cheaper. It is lot cheaper where you are at. Here it is about $200 a deer. Plus locker fees (if you can find one) or the cost of a freezer. Plus you got the cost of the gun, the ammo, clothing and transportation etc. Even if you hunt every year for 10-15 years, it still come out to about $300 a deer. Or $6 a pound. Most hunters I know are good for about 5 deer steaks a year and another 8-10 pounds of ground deer. The rest goes into 2/3 jerky and 1/3 into Salami or Summer Sausage. They end up giving a lot of it away every year. I use to have a guy who gave a couple pounds of ground deer and some deer jerky. I did have the heart to tell him I did not want it. I liked the jerky just fine, but it took me awhile to find away to use the ground deer. I finally found a way to mix it with some Nacho cheese and use it as dip with Fritos and beer. It was not too bad, but hamburger works better. He finally quit deer hunting several years ago although he still goes duck hunting or I should say he sits in a blind and drinks peppermint schnapps. I went with him once and thank God, I didn't get a duck. I hate duck. I thought we got a little too loaded to be around loaded guns, so I haven't gone again. With that one exception, I haven't been hunting since high school because a friend died in an hunting accident.(but that's another story) My brother use to hunt deer with a bow. My dad hunted pheasants the day before he died. I know a lot of people who still hunt. When I lived in rural Nebraska, everybody I knew hunted some.

[Fager Fan]

Who was that? Tell us his name.

I think you missed the point.

[zico20]

Sammy, two atrocities committed this week by Black man.
Suppose it is not the weapons but the person?

Obama's way of thinking:

White cop shoots violent black criminal=race issue
black criminal shoots unarmed white people=its a gun control issue :rolleyes:

[Inner Dirt]

Obama's way of thinking:

White cop shoots violent black criminal=race issue
black criminal shoots unarmed white people=its a gun control issue :rolleyes:

It blows my mind how the media and all the people in the criminal's camp
never mention what the perp was doing to merit getting shot. The most ridiculous one was Trayvon Martin, the left never mentioned he was bashing
someone's head against the sidewalk.

[sammy the sage]

Sammy, two atrocities committed this week by Black man.
Suppose it is not the weapons but the person?

my comments NOTHING to do w/race....but does HAVE to do w/THE hypocrite in office...

[Tom]

Same here.

[FantasticDan]

Same here.Yep, I know that when I accuse someone of an atrocity, and I say "by a Black man", it has nothing to do with race.

How could anyone think otherwise, right? Huh? Right? :blush:

[Tom]

I forgot to dumb it down for the audience here.

[PaceAdvantage]

Prostitution should be legalized, licensed and controlled.I guess you have to be for this since you're for abortion. After all, if it's HER BODY and she can do with it what she wants when it comes to abortion, you have to be in favor of legalized prostitution, where women can freely degrade their bodies at will for cash.

But if you ask me, it sounds like you're advocating a war on women.... :lol:

[PaceAdvantage]

Most people have something called empathy. That's when, if something bad happens to some one else, you feel bad for them. Some people are lacking in empathy. Clearly you are one of those.

Empathy doesn't mean if you read someone's obituary in the newspaper, you feel as bad as if your grandmother died. It doesn't mean you weep for every bad thing that happens to every person on earth. It does mean that when a tragedy happens such as happened yesterday-where innocent people are killed in an environment where they should have been safe-your first and only reaction should not be, they are trying to take our guns away!!!!!!!!!!Bullshit boy. As I pointed out, there are countless tragic deaths every single day in this country and in this world. I'm not going to feel empathy for this particular tragedy just because the left wants to politicize the hell out of it.

What you wrote is completely false...every single word.

You can tuck your fake psychology diploma back in your pocket while you're at it.

[PaceAdvantage]

Two observations, if you gentlemen don't mind my adding. This is from years of experience and communication with behavioral problems of children.

Often, at an early age, the first person to suspect a problem, an abnormal behavior in a young child is not his or her parents, as we are led to believe. No, not at all. It's a teacher, and usually that teacher has seen much throughout his or her tenure, to back up their concerns.

Parents, though, get quite angry, a good deal of the time. They are in denial, when called to school for a conference, even repeatedly, sometime taking years to accept that their child has a very real issue that can progress and escalate. The teacher's desire is to help her student. These children need the attention of other professionals/physicians which could include evaluation to assist diagnosis, talk therapy, and often (but not always) medication to help them move forward.

Another problem I've realized is that many "baby boomers", of which I am one, have done the poorest job of parenting of any and all generations. There are many reasons for this, but in recent years one of the greatest has been the nonstop play of violence found in video games. This was one of the first notes reported about this shooter...

"I love killing Zombies", he stated. It was on his social media page. This steady diet of violence, sometimes hours a day, or night, has given birth to a level of rabid fixation that fuels fantasy. For one struggling with reality, video games are gasoline thrown on a bonfire. .... Sadly, to the parent, who doesn't want to be bothered, they're a babysitter to their child while they continue to be in denial regarding what educators have shared with them. There is no greater disservice to a child than to lack time for them, or worse, to ignore them. None.

The breakdown for these individuals has come long, long before the handgun or rifle was purchased. Decades before they explode. Some of it may have been able to be diverted with commitment, guidance, love, and less denial from parents. :(Some very salient observations there. I can't argue the very real possibility that video games greatly desensitize...combine this with serious mental issues, and it's a recipe for disaster...

[Robert Fischer]

Actor James Woods has slammed Obama's reaction to the Umpqua Community College shooting...


I guess Cyndi Lauper and Larry Bird will weigh-in next? :rolleyes:

[PaceAdvantage]

I'm not going to feel empathy for this particular tragedy just because the left wants to politicize the hell out of it.And just to clarify, because I know how picky mostpost is with words, by writing the above, this does not mean I DON'T or WON'T feel empathy for those murdered in Oregon.

I WILL have empathy as I see fit. However, I won't be forced into empathy by a media agenda that pushes this on me 24/7 for days on end because gun control is their agenda. They won't be happy until we're all wringing our hands and doing our best Tammy Faye Baker impersonations...

[delayjf]

I can't argue the very real possibility that video games greatly desensitize...combine this with serious mental issues, and it's a recipe for disaster...

I think it goes without saying that you can say the same thing for TV. I remember back in the late 70's when "Dawn of the Dead" was first released in the theaters. I found the level violence and gore disturbing - you can now watch that same level of violence / gore daily on TV. You can even watch it 24 hours a day, if they are airing a Walking Dead marathon.

[Tom]

You can even watch it 24 hours a day, if they are airing a Walking Dead marathon.

Or Republican debate. :eek:

[FantasticDan]

I think it goes without saying that you can say the same thing for TV. I remember back in the late 70's when "Dawn of the Dead" was first released in the theaters. I found the level violence and gore disturbing - you can now watch that same level of violence / gore daily on TV. You can even watch it 24 hours a day, if they are airing a Walking Dead marathon.Wow, so now horror movies lead to mass shootings. Having a bunch of guns, eh, that's an irrelevant component.. :ThmbUp:

BTW, youth violent crimes overall have strongly trended downward over the last 20 years. Doesn't really jibe with the whole video games and zombies make them crazy angle.

[horses4courses]

I don't watch the Late Show.
Haven't in years - way past my bedtime.

Today, though, I did happen to read what he said to open
his show the day after the horrible events in Oregon.
He deserves some credit for this, imo.


Stephen Colbert is an alumnus of The Daily Show with Jon Stewart, who went on to have an arguably equally famous satirical and eponymous news show.

He left The Colbert Report last year to take on hosting duties at The Late Show, dropping the right-wing comedy persona.

One of the things that is often said about Stewart, is that The Daily Show was at its most powerful when he wasn't joking, such as in the wake of the Charleston church shooting.

Colbert had a similar moment on Friday's Late Show, in the aftermath of yet another mass shooting in the US, this time at a community college in Umpqua, Oregon.

He admitted he had nothing funny to say:

In the face of the killings in Oregon yesterday, I honestly don't know what to do or say, other than that our hearts are broken for the people struck by this senseless tragedy. And I don't know how to start a show like this, which is often about whatever happened in the last 24 hours. I can't pretend that it didn't happen. I also can't pretend to know what to do to prevent what happened yesterday all the times it has happened before.

But I think pretending is part of the problem. These things happen over and over again, and we are naturally horrified and shocked when we hear about them. But then we change nothing, and we pretend that it won't happen again.

Some say the answer is stricter gun laws. Others say the answer is mental healthcare — that we need better treatment or just keep the guns out of the hands of the insane. Maybe it's both, I honestly don't know. But I do know that one of the definitions of insanity is changing nothing and then pretending that something will change.

[woodtoo]

Unstable nut jobs are the usual suspects of mass killings. Bad parenting
is probably more to blame than video games, especially in this case where
his mother thought nurturing her son at a shooting range and leaving
multiple guns around to keep her mentally disabled son occupied would be a great idea. Apparently being part of a protected class gives her cover.

[woodtoo]

I don't watch the Late Show.
Haven't in years - way past my bedtime.

Today, though, I did happen to read what he said to open
his show the day after the horrible events in Oregon.
He deserves some credit for this, imo.
He basically said...nothing. You can have a nite off credit,DOH

[classhandicapper]

Colbert is not really understanding part of why we are doing nothing. It's because doing nothing is often better than doing the wrong thing. If there was a consensus on some of the positive things that could be done, they would be done.

[horses4courses]

Many of you are, obviously, content with the status quo.
That says a lot.

[classhandicapper]

Many of you are, obviously, content with the status quo.
That says a lot.

I'm not content with the status quo.

I think there are some common sense things that can be done, but it's MUCH harder for the left to do them because no one on the right trusts them on this or many other issues...

It's like many other gridlock problems (taxes and spending for example).

If the right gives an inch in a compromise, the left comes back next time either asking for more or doing more when they have power. Sooner or later the right has compromised itself into a totally intolerable position and is still being called names for not compromising further. So the right digs in and refuses to give up that first inch.

[horses4courses]

If the right gives an inch in a compromise, the left comes back next time either asking for more or doing more when they have power. Sooner or later the right has compromised itself into a totally intolerable position and is still being called names for not compromising further. So the right digs in and refuses to give up that first inch.

Walk a mile in my shoes...... ;)

[thaskalos]

Colbert is not really understanding part of why we are doing nothing. It's because doing nothing is often better than doing the wrong thing. If there was a consensus on some of the positive things that could be done, they would be done.

I, for one, hope that I don't have to count on you at a time of dire need...when there is no time for a "consensus". :)

[Inner Dirt]

Many of you are, obviously, content with the status quo.
That says a lot.

Any ideas I have mentioned to my liberal friends gets the response of "That would be violating people's civil rights." That would be violating the civil rights of convicted criminals, the mentally unstable, and potential criminals. Yet they
have no problem violating the rights of responsible gun owners. Which of course are the only group that will follow any new gun laws.

[Tom]

Gus has the right idea.
Of course no one is happy with the status quo, but we want to do something that might work, not just feel good.

What new law would have prevented this latest shooting?
While you all argue about it, Gus is the guy I want to be sitting next to when I go out. As long as we don't talk politics! :eek:

Remember the Long Island train shooting?
One armed passenger could have stopped that one cold.

[thaskalos]

Gus has the right idea.
Of course no one is happy with the status quo, but we want to do something that might work, not just feel good.

What new law would have prevented this latest shooting?
While you all argue about it, Gus is the guy I want to be sitting next to when I go out. As long as we don't talk politics! :eek:

You couldn't be in better hands if you were insured by Allstate. :)

[magwell]

The media is interviewing the father of this guy who he didn't live with, but never the mother who bought this nut 13 guns and took him to the gun range, strange they had all those guns in a one bedroom apartment.......:confused:

[woodtoo]

Nothing to see here, move along :rolleyes:

[Robert Goren]

There is one law that could help. Holding responsible the people who illegally put guns into the hands of these killers. It also might be a good idea if we had mandatory reporting laws for guns that are missing. I think a gun should not missing more than a week before you report it. If you are going to own a gun, you should check to be sure it is where it is suppose to be daily. There should be licensed places to leave your gun(s) if you are going to be away from your home for a few days. If have a medical emergency, the rescue unit should ask about guns just as they do about pets. If somebody takes your gun without your permission, the police need know. I also believe that if you lend your gun to someone, then you should financially legal responsible if he causes harm with it, just like if you lent your car to him and he had an accident. You should be able to buy gun liability insurance just car liability insurance to cover that.

[rastajenk]

I don't have a problem with much of that, Mr. Goren, but I also think that all that still wouldn't affect the number of these kinds of incidents.

[AndyC]

...... You should be able to buy gun liability insurance just car liability insurance to cover that.

Just like the poor who can't even afford an ID in order to exercise their right to vote, wouldn't forcing people to buy gun insurance restrict a poor person's right to own a gun?

[classhandicapper]

I, for one, hope that I don't have to count on you at a time of dire need...when there is no time for a "consensus". :)

I hear you.

If I had my way I'd implement a lot things I was sure I was right about. The problem is that a lot of people would think I was wrong and at least a portion of the time they would be right (kind of like my picks at KEE lately). ;)

[Inner Dirt]

There is one law that could help. Holding responsible the people who illegally put guns into the hands of these killers. It also might be a good idea if we had mandatory reporting laws for guns that are missing. I think a gun should not missing more than a week before you report it. If you are going to own a gun, you should check to be sure it is where it is suppose to be daily. There should be licensed places to leave your gun(s) if you are going to be away from your home for a few days. If have a medical emergency, the rescue unit should ask about guns just as they do about pets. If somebody takes your gun without your permission, the police need know. I also believe that if you lend your gun to someone, then you should financially legal responsible if he causes harm with it, just like if you lent your car to him and he had an accident. You should be able to buy gun liability insurance just car liability insurance to cover that.

Police do not actively investigate most breaking and entering crimes of unoccupied homes, unless they think a serial burglar is operating in the same area. Those people are usually caught when they are sloppy trying to
fence the goods (Like trying to sell a dozen TVs at once to a pawn shop).
The stolen guns would be retained by the thief, sold on the black market,
or illegally traded. They aren't going to turn up like stolen jewelry and the cops won't be hunting them down. Good try but your idea doesn't work in reality.

[Tom]

The military guy who took 7 bullets trying to stop this guy had his gun with him, but in his car because college rules prevented him from carrying it on campus.

There was a gun law - no guns, period.
One guys obeys it and one does not.

Damn worthless rule.

[Inner Dirt]

Unstable nut jobs are the usual suspects of mass killings. Bad parenting
is probably more to blame than video games, especially in this case where
his mother thought nurturing her son at a shooting range and leaving
multiple guns around to keep her mentally disabled son occupied would be a great idea. Apparently being part of a protected class gives her cover.


My life is a small sample but I have seen good parents raise rotten kids. I have known plenty of instances where 1 kid of 3 or 4 was a lemon and
the other ones were fine. Some people are just wired wrong and are evil. My now 20 year old nephew (I last saw him at 18) is a prime example. He is a sociopath, spent 7 stints in juvenile hall in Idaho where they will put kids
in solitary. He was kicked out of High School for assaulting a 65 year old
female teacher, he showed no remorse and said she had it coming because
he made her mad. He has hit his mother. Even though he is 6'2" 200 lb he is a major coward any possible physical encounter with any male he has had
a weapon, gun, knife etc. He has had a few stints living with me, last one ended when I found a huge wrench under his pillow. He later confessed to
my girlfriend he was going to attack me with it next time I "bossed" him
around. That was two years ago while I had a couple pounds on him and was an ex-boxer I was 52 with limited use of my right arm (which was obvious and I was right handed). Noah is a POS, just waiting to hear about
him on the news, he is also a major white supremacist and sports the tattoos to announce it to the world.

[FantasticDan]

The military guy who took 7 bullets trying to stop this guy had his gun with him, but in his car because college rules prevented him from carrying it on campus. There was a gun law - no guns, period. One guys obeys it and one does not. Damn worthless rule.
You are incorrect. It's legal to concealed carry on OR college campuses. This college bans guns in certain buildings, but apparently that rule is ignored by many who feel the overall law gives them authorization.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/04/oregon-shooting-state-universities-campus-gun-laws-concealed-carry

In the Umpqua case, though, at least one student (and likely others) was carrying a concealed weapon during the massacre. Needless to say, this did not prevent the tragedy.

An armed Umpqua student, John Parker Jr, explained just how difficult, if not impossible, it would have been for an armed bystander to stop the attack.

“The Swat team wouldn’t know who we were, and if we had our guns ready to shoot, they could think we were bad guys,” he told MSNBC.

Also:

Myth of the Good Guy with a Gun (http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/10/oregon-shooting-gun-laws-213222)

[Inner Dirt]

The military guy who took 7 bullets trying to stop this guy had his gun with him, but in his car because college rules prevented him from carrying it on campus.

There was a gun law - no guns, period.
One guys obeys it and one does not.

Damn worthless rule.

So as usual the mentally unstable and criminals are not obeying the gun laws.The liberal law makers need to come up with a plan to get compliance. Maybe they should reward every current criminal, ex-con or potential criminal with a $100 gift certificate to Outback Steak House for taking a class on gun laws and gun safety. It shocks me that tacking on two years for a weapons violation to a 25 years to life sentence for armed robbery or murder isn't a deterrent. (Please detect sarcasm) The big problem is we
have politicians trying to appease a mass of anti-gun people who don't use
common sense. Responsible gun owners will obey gun laws, criminals and the mentally unstable won't. Anyone with an I.Q. above 70 should understand that, but for some reason the political left can't.

[ebcorde]

So as usual the mentally unstable and criminals are not obeying the gun laws.The liberal law makers need to come up with a plan to get compliance. Maybe they should reward every current criminal, ex-con or potential criminal with a $100 gift certificate to Outback Steak House for taking a class on gun laws and gun safety. It shocks me that tacking on two years for a weapons violation to a 25 years to life sentence for armed robbery or murder isn't a deterrent. (Please detect sarcasm) The big problem is we
have politicians trying to appease a mass of anti-gun people who don't use
common sense. Responsible gun owners will obey gun laws, criminals and the mentally unstable won't. Anyone with an I.Q. above 70 should understand that, but for some reason the political left can't.


Responsible gun owners will obey gun laws? How bout the Marines who drove into Mexico with guns? It's an accident and then you begin to give breaks to some people and no breaks to others.

The biggest drop in crime would be a 20 year mandatory sentence for drug dealers, a lot of illegal guns are used by dealers.

[Inner Dirt]

Responsible gun owners will obey gun laws? How bout the Marines who drove into Mexico with guns? It's an accident and then you begin to give breaks to some people and no breaks to others.

The biggest drop in crime would be a 20 year mandatory sentence for drug dealers, a lot of illegal guns are used by dealers.

That is a weak example. I probably know a lot more about Tijuana Mexico (If that is the incident you are referring to) than you do. I used to live in Southern California. My Aunt lives on the beach there and I have been to the dog track and sportsbooks 100's of times. After a bad run in with our border patrol I quit going 20 years ago.


The police there are corrupt and see tourists as marks to shake down for cash. Twice I paid bribes (accused of traffic violations I did not commit)
and one time drove away when a cop too far from his vehicle accused me
of stopping in a no parking zone in a deserted area. In a separate incident
I had a friend renting a vacation home who was jailed for weeks after a
"Mexican" neighbor ran into his motorcycle. The Mexican was at fault and
my friend went to jail. My Aunt said the areas my friends and I used to
haunt are all boarded up and have been over run by drug cartels. She
said it isn't safe and severed heads and corpses turn up in those areas
frequently. Even if that marine violated Mexican gun laws on purpose I have
no issue with it. The police cannot protect the citizens from the drug runners and are usually taking money from the cartels and are corrupt.
It isn't like the Marine violated USA gun laws, it was Northern Mexico where
you can trust no one but yourself.

[Clocker]

My life is a small sample but I have seen good parents raise rotten kids. I have known plenty of instances where 1 kid of 3 or 4 was a lemon and the other ones were fine. Some people are just wired wrong and are evil.

Who a kid hangs out with can have as much or more influence on development as parental supervision.

[Inner Dirt]

Who a kid hangs out with can have as much or more influence on development as parental supervision.

My Nephew could have hung out with the Pope and still been the second coming of Damien.

[magwell]

My Nephew could have hung out with the Pope and still been the second coming of Damien. :lol::lol:

[PaceAdvantage]

Wow, so now horror movies lead to mass shootings. Having a bunch of guns, eh, that's an irrelevant component.. :ThmbUp:

BTW, youth violent crimes overall have strongly trended downward over the last 20 years. Doesn't really jibe with the whole video games and zombies make them crazy angle.Except nobody really said that. At least that's not what I wrote. The video games don't make them crazy. They already are.

And by the way, violent crime is down overall. Doesn't jibe too well with the "guns are this hideous problem and we must eradicate most of them" angle.

[Robert Goren]

Just like the poor who can't even afford an ID in order to exercise their right to vote, wouldn't forcing people to buy gun insurance restrict a poor person's right to own a gun? They force people to Liability insurance to drive/own a car. What is the difference?

[elysiantraveller]

WaPo writeups on good guys with guns (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/10/03/do-civilians-with-guns-ever-stop-mass-shootings/?tid=pm_opinions_pop_b)

Not counting Clackamas or the Texas fair shootout.

[Tom]

They force people to Liability insurance to drive/own a car. What is the difference?

This
"the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

[Clocker]

The courts have firmly established the principle that driving on public roads is a privilege, not a right.The public roads are owned by the people, and the representatives of the people can establish reasonable rules for their use.

Gun ownership is a right, not a privilege. The government cannot impose conditions that are burdensome or restrictive to exercise of that right.

[Tom]

Although I would buy voter's insurance.
Imagine, we elect these lying candidates who turn out to feckless bottom feeders and we can get a check for it!

[Robert Fischer]

you can download an app now that shows goodguys-with-a-gun as 'blue', and badguys-with-a-gun as 'red'.

[Inner Dirt]

WaPo writeups on good guys with guns (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/10/03/do-civilians-with-guns-ever-stop-mass-shootings/?tid=pm_opinions_pop_b)

Not counting Clackamas or the Texas fair shootout.

Also you don't know how many criminals who didn't want to use their gun passed on a pre planned crime when they saw a person carrying a fire arm in the open. Don't know the legality but I have seen an occasional person in street clothes with a holstered pistol in the stores around here.
Most people would pass on robbing a store with an armed patron. I would
bet convenience store robberies would be way down if there always was an open carry person in the snack isle.

[AndyC]

They force people to Liability insurance to drive/own a car. What is the difference?

Which amendment to the constitution was about driving cars?

[zico20]

This is why we need all law aiding citizens to carry openly. The first example the robber got away but the second example the robber took a couple of rounds.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/us-woman-shoots-at-shoplifter-as-he-flees-store/ar-AAfcjea?li=BBieTUX&ocid=mailsignout

[rastajenk]

Which amendment to the constitution was about driving cars?
The one that gave women the vote?

[Robert Goren]

Which amendment to the constitution was about driving cars?The people who wrote the bill of rights did not intend to have an amendment on gun ownership by non militia members either. The people who wrote bill of rights and the state senators voted on them wrote quite a bit about what they intended the second amendment to be, but today their writings have been completely ignored by the courts. It is clear from their writing they wanted each state to have a small army or militia. It is not clear that they thought gun ownership was a right. In those days almost everyone had a gun because they needed it for such things as hunting. And remember the guns in those days were not the efficient killing machines they are today.