View Full Version : Kasparov - Putin Take Victory Lap while Obama Watches
classhandicapper
10-01-2015, 10:41 AM
http://www.wsj.com/articles/putin-takes-a-victory-lap-while-obama-watches-1443568463
Some excerpts
"No matter how well-intentioned and popular the U.S. exit from Iraq was, or how well the White House spun its concessions to Mr. Assad in 2013, the results clearly have been disastrous. A look at a map of Iraq and Syria shows that the rise of ISIS was a logical response to American abandonment of the region’s Sunnis. ."
"In world affairs, as in chess, you have to play the position that’s on the board when you sit down. Criticizing George W. Bush for starting the Iraq war in 2003 does not change the fact that in 2008 there was no mass refugee crisis or massive ISIS army on the march."
"These consequences may be acceptable to Mr. Obama, but he cannot pretend to be ignorant of his role in creating them. I, too, would like to live in the world of diplomacy and law that Mr. Obama seems to believe we inhabit. But unfortunately we do not. Power and action still matter, and in places like Syria and Iraq you cannot have power without action."
"Mr. Putin didn’t say anything new at the U.N., because he didn’t need to. He knows that he has concrete assets that are more effective than mere words. He has tanks in Ukraine, jet fighters in Syria, and Barack Obama in the White House."
Watching the press conference last night was surprised that Kerry was not told to roll over and sit.
It was clear who was the dominant force in the room.
(Hint, it was not Ketchup Kerry)
ebcorde
10-01-2015, 11:52 AM
in the middle east. first, we are still in Iraq. His mistake, Obama should have removed all US troops years ago. Of course if Russia looks like a savoir, it's our fault, we've been in the middle east with "run run pass punt" for 14 years.
check out Larov at the UN on BBC24.
Robert Fischer
10-01-2015, 12:12 PM
all the stuff we are hearing, including that letter, are lies
Kasparov is a good example. He's taking the fiction and telling a story to suit his stance. Same as our propaganda ministry, same as the Russian propaganda ministry.
Then our news tells the fictional story to us, and then we debate the fiction.
classhandicapper
10-01-2015, 12:18 PM
I agree that we rarely get honest and complete information from any news source. But the difference between our news and Kasparov is that Kasparov has an overall IQ of 180 that is especially geared towards strategic thinking. Our government and press, not so much. Despite his anti Putin bias, he also seems to be doing a very good job of predicting outcomes of foreign policy before they occur, especially when it comes to Putin and Obama.
Greyfox
10-01-2015, 12:39 PM
Putin knows that Obama is "all hat, no cattle."
Putin wants the Assad regime to stay in power.
So he will blast the Obama backed insurgents and then deal with ISIS.
He recognizes that Obama's efforts to rid Syria of ISIS have not been sincere.
American pilots returning from missions in Syria have had multiple chances to pick off ISIS targets in the open but they have had to seek approval from Washington before they can strike. If that permission is ever given, the target has found cover.
With Obama at the helm, and his trained monkey Kerry playing the accordion, America's geopolitical influence in the Middle East has seriously diminished in the last 8 years.
ebcorde
10-01-2015, 02:34 PM
lol the exuberance of youth. If I was a 20 year old Syria. I'm in Germany at Octoberfest, beats getting my head chopped off.
thaskalos
10-01-2015, 02:39 PM
"In world affairs, as in chess, you have to play the position that’s on the board when you sit down."[/QUOTE]
Yes...but in chess, the position that you face when you sit down is usually the one that you yourself have contributed to. The chess player doesn't usually take over disadvantageous positions left by others.
I am not excusing Obama, of course...because he sought the job while fully knowing what the "position" was. I am just commenting on the similarity between politics and chess that Kasparov was referring to.
TJDave
10-01-2015, 02:47 PM
So...Is there anyplace I can read the article without subscribing?
classhandicapper
10-01-2015, 02:53 PM
I was able to find it and read it without a subscription using a Google search. That's what I thought I posted. You should be able to find it searching for that title.
TJDave
10-01-2015, 03:02 PM
I was able to find it and read it without a subscription using a Google search. That's what I thought I posted. You should be able to find it searching for that title.
Every site redirects to the WSJ.
Funny.
President Pushover goes to the UN prepared to sell us out on Global Warming and finds out the REAL word leader has already set the table and written the agenda.
Then today, Netty stands up and basically tells the world and US to go to Hell, deservedly so.
Good to know we have real man left in power.
ReplayRandall
10-01-2015, 03:27 PM
Every site redirects to the WSJ.
Click on link below, looking at right side, scroll down about 4 articles to Sept. 29th, don't click "see more", click on picture of Putin and Obama only, will take you to a full article, courtesy of Kasparov/facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/GKKasparov
TJDave
10-01-2015, 03:49 PM
Click on link below, looking at right side, scroll down about 4 articles to Sept. 29th, don't click "see more", click on picture of Putin and Obama only, will take you to a full article, courtesy of Kasparov/facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/GKKasparov
Thank You!
davew
10-02-2015, 01:47 AM
it is a win - win
Putin gets to take over the middle east
0bama gets to leave the middle east and the United States does not have to pay to train rebels anymore because they are getting blown up by the Russians
it will cost more for petroleum in a few years because of the Russian fee for tankers in the area, but by then united states will be all green energy and fossil fuels will be frowned upon because of pacific islands sinking
classhandicapper
10-02-2015, 10:06 AM
Funny.
President Pushover goes to the UN prepared to sell us out on Global Warming and finds out the REAL word leader has already set the table and written the agenda.
Then today, Netty stands up and basically tells the world and US to go to Hell, deservedly so.
Good to know we have real man left in power.
That was totally amazing. It was a great speech.
Actor
10-02-2015, 01:52 PM
"No matter how well-intentioned and popular the U.S. exit from Iraq was, ...Why was it popular? Because my kid's boots are not on the ground in some god forsaken foreign land that we have no business being in in the first place. End of story.
Actor
10-02-2015, 01:56 PM
Yes...but in chess, the position that you face when you sit down is usually the one that you yourself have contributed to. The chess player doesn't usually take over disadvantageous positions left by others.And the chess player does not have a committee of 535 telling him he cannot make the move he deems best.
classhandicapper
10-02-2015, 01:59 PM
actor,
I can't argue with your thinking, except that as he is suggesting the downside was worse for the world. The idea is not make those mistakes to begin with, but once you've made the mess you have to play it best you can from there.
And the chess player does not have a committee of 535 telling him he cannot make the move he deems best.
But the president does, and he knew that going in.
Obama inherited NOTHING.
He sought it all.
And bungled even more of it.
TJDave
10-02-2015, 02:26 PM
actor,
I can't argue with your thinking, except that as he is suggesting the downside was worse for the world. The idea is not make those mistakes to begin with, but once you've made the mess you have to play it best you can from there.
SOP. Just like we did in Vietnam. The U.S. has been crapping all over the world since the 1950's....and we don't even bother to cover it up.
thaskalos
10-02-2015, 02:33 PM
That was totally amazing. It was a great speech.
What is "amazing" is that we have armed to the teeth a guy who can't stop criticizing our country.
Doesn't this guy know that you don't bite the hand that feeds you?
classhandicapper
10-02-2015, 02:38 PM
SOP. Just like we did in Vietnam. The U.S. has been crapping all over the world since the 1950's....and we don't even bother to cover it up.
I tend to be on the libertarian side of foreign policy. I think most of this stuff is none of our business other than expressing our views and only doing business with countries that behave in a way that is reasonably consistent with our values. There are some exceptions (like defending a friend from aggression etc..,) but not many.
On the flip side I think you have to deal with people from strength when you do get involved in any way. You can't threaten people and then back down. You can't have a policy of appeasement under the assumption that making compromises will encourage all people to be reasonable back. Some people will walk all over you if you are not strong.
Could you imagine Obama during the Cuban missile crisis?
Kennedy was heroic. He found the exactly correct way to show strength but without doing anything crazy. If Obama was president, not only would the Soviets have built way more missiles, he would have given them Florida as a gesture of goodwill.
TJDave
10-02-2015, 02:40 PM
What is "amazing" is that we have armed to the teeth a guy who can't stop criticizing our country.
Doesn't this guy know that you don't bite the hand that feeds you?
Did you listen to the speech?
http://www.c-span.org/video/?328487-2/israeli-prime-minister-benjamin-netanyahu-address-un-general-assembly
classhandicapper
10-02-2015, 02:44 PM
What is "amazing" is that we have armed to the teeth a guy who can't stop criticizing our country.
Doesn't this guy know that you don't bite the hand that feeds you?
He's not criticizing the US. He's criticizing Obama, the democrats, and the UN.
I'm no huge fan of his. I don't even like him much. But he's exactly right about our president and the attitude of the UN. If the LBGT community wants a hero, they shouldn't look to Katylene Jenner. We know he/she still has balls. Not so sure about Obama.
elysiantraveller
10-02-2015, 02:54 PM
Could you imagine Obama during the Cuban missile crisis?
Kennedy was heroic. He found the exactly correct way to show strength but without doing anything crazy. If Obama was president, not only would the Soviets have built way more missiles, he would have given them Florida as a gesture of goodwill.
I agreed with everything until this...
Kennedy was a disaster...
classhandicapper
10-02-2015, 03:01 PM
I agreed with everything until this...
Kennedy was a disaster...
In what way?
I'm sure mistakes were made along the way, but he got the missiles out and averted a confrontation. I give that an A+.
elysiantraveller
10-02-2015, 03:08 PM
In what way?
I'm sure mistakes were made along the way, but he got the missiles out and averted a confrontation. I give that an A+.
He escalated the confrontation at every impasse. You can't drive a car careening towards the edge of a cliff and then take credit for stopping it just in time. The missiles would have been removed had he simply offered to not invade Cuba and removed our MRBM's from Italy and Turkey... after 13 days and driving the world to the brink of annihilation he did just that and the crises was averted. He was so reckless the Soviets in the Politburo were literally dumbfounded by the American reaction.
The title of this thread is fitting as it was another example of the Russian's taking American's to school in realpolitik.
classhandicapper
10-02-2015, 03:19 PM
He escalated the confrontation at every impasse. You can't drive a car careening towards the edge of a cliff and then take credit for stopping it just in time. The missiles would have been removed had he simply offered to not invade Cuba and removed our MRBM's from Italy and Turkey... after 13 days and driving the world to the brink of annihilation he did just that and the crises was averted. He was so reckless the Soviets in the Politburo were literally dumbfounded by the American reaction.
The title of this thread is fitting as it was another example of the Russian's taking American's to school in realpolitik.
I'd still prefer that than allowing them to have missiles and handing over Florida. ;)
TJDave
10-02-2015, 03:25 PM
The title of this thread is fitting as it was another example of the Russian's taking American's to school in realpolitik.
One Russian. A dictator gets things done. He will slink away once he finds out how serious Iran can be.
ebcorde
10-02-2015, 03:39 PM
On French TV they're saying the head Syrian Mullah issued Holy Jihad on Russia. Looks like the Chechens will be paying Moscow a visit. Thanks for Playing Vladimir
Greyfox
10-02-2015, 04:44 PM
On French TV they're saying the head Syrian Mullah issued Holy Jihad on Russia. Looks like the Chechens will be paying Moscow a visit. Thanks for Playing Vladimir
Absolute poppycock.
Putin has already taken out an ISIS Training Center today.
Why didn't Obama do that?
Russia cannot afford to have an established ISIS state on it's front doorstep.
What Putin is doing is perfectly logical.
He is acting in the best interests of Russia.
America would do the same if that battle were raging nearby.
magwell
10-03-2015, 12:21 AM
Absolute poppycock.
Putin has already taken out an ISIS Training Center today.
Why didn't Obama do that?
Russia cannot afford to have an established ISIS state on it's front doorstep.
What Putin is doing is perfectly logical.
He is acting in the best interests of Russia.
America would do the same if that battle were raging nearby.
On August 04, 2013, Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, addressed the Dumas, (Russian Parliament), and gave a speech about the tensions with minorities in Russia:
"In Russia, live like Russians. Any minority, from anywhere, if it wants to live in Russia, to work and eat in Russia, it should speak Russian, and should respect the Russian laws. If they prefer Sharia Law, and live the life of Muslim's then we advise them to go to those places where that's the state law.
"Russia does not need Muslim minorities. Minorities need Russia, and we will not grant them special privileges, or try to change our laws to fit their desires, no matter how loud they yell 'discrimination'. We will not tolerate disrespect of our Russian culture. We better learn from the suicides of America, England, Holland and France, if we are to survive as a nation. The Muslims are taking over those countries and they will not take over Russia. The Russian customs and traditions are not compatible with the lack of culture or the primitive ways of Sharia Law and Muslims.
"When this honorable legislative body thinks of creating new laws, it should have in mind the Russian national interest first, observing that the Muslims Minorities Are Not Russians."
The politicians in the Dumas gave Putin a five minute standing ovation.
It's obvious Obama and Kerry are just cowards with big mouths.
They play no role in world politics anymore.
They are "Yes men."
Obama know his role.
Don't bring a community organizer to a real world conflict.
Or a Ketchup Klown.
OntheRail
10-03-2015, 01:04 PM
Guess he kept this promises... Vald's bent Obuma over so many times.
iYGsadcBiFA
His new SS code name should Gumby
http://www.gumbyworld.com/wp-content/themes/duotive-three/images/home-large-gumby.png
:lol:
Robert Goren
10-03-2015, 04:08 PM
Putin can have the entire middle east as far I am concerned. He will run into same things we run into and the USSR did in Afghanistan in 1980s. Hopefully Obama will be smart enough to do what Reagan did when the USSR invaded Afghanistan, nothing. We have bogged down there long enough.
magwell
10-13-2015, 12:41 PM
For Israel, the threat from Assad has always been greater than the threat from ISIS. After all, ISIS has only been successful when going up against the disorganized forces on the periphery of a failing state. ISIS has done poorly against the Kurds and against the regular Egyptian Army in the Sinai. But as long as ISIS and Assad are fighting each other, neither one is going to be concerned about Israel.Putin’s narcissism could be his worst enemy. It appears that he has already put troops (Special Forces) on the ground with nearly 150,000 more set to enter. He has not learned from Russia’s dismal experience in Afghanistan. The Russian people are not going to stand for their children coming home in body bags for another faraway war. Add what will undoubtedly be an eruption of ISIS terror striking inside Russia’s borders, he is setting the stage for a revolution at home that will make the October Revolution look like a child’s birthday party.
Israel will emerge as a beacon of stability in a sea of chaos, and the regional threat from ISIS will be a catalyst for military and economic cooperation with Israel’s Arab neighbors. In contrast, Putin’s historic quest for another warm water port at the cost of involvement in a military conflict might well prove an economic catastrophe.........Possibly ?
Hopefully Obama will be smart enough to do what Reagan did when the USSR invaded Afghanistan, nothing.
He did plenty. Just did it smart.
classhandicapper
10-13-2015, 02:36 PM
Kasparov
"Every Putin action that catches the West flat-footed leads to another round of what a brilliant "chess master" he is, a metaphor that annoys me more than most, as you might imagine. For years I've said that Putin doesn't play geopolitical chess, and if he did he wouldn't be very good at it. He is, however, good at playing poker with a weak hand against anxious opponents who fold against his every bluff.
The greatest danger isn't in confronting Putin, it's in waiting so long to do so that the stakes will be incredibly high. The longer we wait, the more confident he becomes and the more dangerous the eventual confrontation will be. Stopping Putin will be harder now than it would have been two years ago, but easier than it will be a year from now."
http://www.newsweek.com/kasparov-putins-goal-syria-chaos-380620
Clocker
10-13-2015, 03:40 PM
From Politico, hardly a bunch of right wingers:
Vladimir Putin’s intervention in Syria is creating new rifts inside an exhausted and in some cases demoralized Obama national security team, where officials pushing for bolder action see the president as stubbornly unwilling to assume new risk as he nears his final year in office.
Current and former Obama officials say the president’s reluctance to respond more assertively against Putin is signaling U.S. weakness and indecision. “We’re just so reactive,” said one senior administration official. “There’s just this tendency to wait” and see what steps other actors take.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/10/syria-obama-putin-russia-discord-214677#ixzz3oTjimxTR
Clocker
10-13-2015, 04:00 PM
On 60 Minutes, Steve Kroft asked Obama about his leadership, especially in the middle east.
Asking Obama about his comments a year ago that America is the indispensable nation and that America leads, Kroft commented that Vladimir Putin "seems to be challenging that leadership" with his actions in Syria.
Obama's response was revealing about how he sees the role of the United States as a global leader. "If you think that running your economy into the ground and having to send troops in in order to prop up your only ally is leadership, then we've got a different definition of leadership," Obama replied. "My definition of leadership would be leading on climate change, an international accord that potentially we'll get in Paris. My definition of leadership is mobilizing the entire world community to make sure that Iran doesn't get a nuclear weapon.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/on-leadership/wp/2015/10/12/obamas-60-minutes-interview-says-a-lot-about-how-he-defines-leadership/
As far as that leadership in containing Iran, also on Sunday Iran tested a new guided long-range ballistic missile. That test may have violated the agreement, but no one can tell since the terms of the agreement are sketchy at best and the White House is not commenting.
classhandicapper
10-13-2015, 04:43 PM
Obama is a flat out joke.
He's literally not even qualified to be on my co-op board and no one on my co-op board is qualified to be on a co-op board. How this man ever rose to such prominence is both mystifying and frightening. He doesn't have any expertise in anything that can be considered significant.
fast4522
10-13-2015, 04:47 PM
On 60 Minutes, Steve Kroft asked Obama about his leadership, especially in the middle east.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/on-leadership/wp/2015/10/12/obamas-60-minutes-interview-says-a-lot-about-how-he-defines-leadership/
As far as that leadership in containing Iran, also on Sunday Iran tested a new guided long-range ballistic missile. That test may have violated the agreement, but no one can tell since the terms of the agreement are sketchy at best and the White House is not commenting.
containing Iran :lol: :lol: :lol:
PaceAdvantage
10-13-2015, 04:50 PM
Obama is a flat out joke.
He's literally not even qualified to be on my co-op board and no one on my co-op board is qualified to be on a co-op board. How this man ever rose to such prominence is both mystifying and frightening. He doesn't have any expertise in anything that can be considered significant.America gets the leader she deserves...every single time.
Saratoga_Mike
10-13-2015, 04:55 PM
Obama is a flat out joke.
He's literally not even qualified to be on my co-op board and no one on my co-op board is qualified to be on a co-op board. How this man ever rose to such prominence is both mystifying and frightening. He doesn't have any expertise in anything that can be considered significant.
It depends. On those really tricky issues, like should we spend money on a new awning, would you allow him an out with a "present" vote?
classhandicapper
10-13-2015, 08:01 PM
It depends. On those really tricky issues, like should we spend money on a new awning, would you allow him an out with a "present" vote?
I've had some wars with my co-op board on things like that. :lol:
Steve Kroft is not the brightest bulb on the tree, but somehow, whenever he interviews Obama, he seems downright brilliant!
vBulletin® v3.8.9, Copyright ©2000-2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.