Jockeys that Earn More than 10%

[Bigadam119]

I have heard that the top jockeys get more than the standard 10%. Does anyone know if that's true? What jockeys would be getting more than 10% if it's true?

[Ruffian1]

I have heard that the top jockeys get more than the standard 10%. Does anyone know if that's true? What jockeys would be getting more than 10% if it's true?

No.

Never happened from 1072-2001.

Can't imagine it does now.

But.. You do pay for their air fair or a set fee if they are traveling out of town.

[chenoa]

No.

Never happened from 1072-2001.

Can't imagine it does now.

But.. You do pay for their air fair or a set fee if they are traveling out of town.

For some, it should be a one-way ticket. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[NorCalGreg]

I have heard that the top jockeys get more than the standard 10%. Does anyone know if that's true? What jockeys would be getting more than 10% if it's true?

I've wondered about that also, BA. Not about the 10% so much, but about the 2-3% trainers. The rider has to get some kind of minimum doesn't he/she? 10-15$ at Sun Ray Park? More elsewhere.
Here's another Q--Anyone play Turf Paradise? Don't want to call anyone out, but there are a couple trainers that just don't win. Now somehow you will see the top riders on their mounts. They will leave others horses to ride mr losers horses (and anyone that plays TP knows what I mean). I've finally come to the conclusion that this trainer is just some independantly wealthy man that slips these riders a hundred dollar bill-they all know the deal- and they ride his loser. Someone give me another explanation.

[johnhannibalsmith]

I... The rider has to get some kind of minimum doesn't he/she? 10-15$ at Sun Ray Park? More elsewhere...

Jock mount even at places like Turf Paradise and the New Mexico circuit is around $50.

Edited to mention that I'm trying hard to piece together who you have in mind specifically with 'Mr. Loser'. Give me some initials... please... :D

[NorCalGreg]

Jock mount even at places like Turf Paradise and the New Mexico circuit is around $50.

Edited to mention that I'm trying hard to piece together who you have in mind specifically with 'Mr. Loser'. Give me some initials... please... :D

They're 2 brothers......last name starts with "J" I just gave the whole thing away.....there are others but you get the gist, john
BTW.....$50? wow

[affirmedny]

they used to say that when Bailey rode for the Sheiks he was paid the winning share of the purse no matter where he finished but I've never seen this confirmed

[chenoa]

Turf Paradise.........Is Howard Hong still giving out picks in the simulcast show :lol: :lol:

[johnhannibalsmith]

Turf Paradise.........Is Howard Hong still giving out picks in the simulcast show :lol: :lol:

No, it has been a few seasons since the top pick "charts well off their previous...".

[Stillriledup]

It's amazing to me that jocks or trainers don't contact owners and make deals to train for less than the standard fee.

[Brogan]

It's amazing to me that jocks or trainers don't contact owners and make deals to train for less than the standard fee.
What is the standard training fee? That's always been on a case by case basis. Different trainers charge different day rates, maybe even amongst their own clients. Purse bonuses can vary from trainer to trainer too.

As far as jockeys go, the mount fee is paid by the track to the jockey, with the corresponding amount deducted from the owners' accounts. There's always been rumors of side deals where jocks kick back a fee to trainers just to get the mount, but nothing documented about that as far as I know.

[Stillriledup]

What is the standard training fee? That's always been on a case by case basis. Different trainers charge different day rates, maybe even amongst their own clients. Purse bonuses can vary from trainer to trainer too.

As far as jockeys go, the mount fee is paid by the track to the jockey, with the corresponding amount deducted from the owners' accounts. There's always been rumors of side deals where jocks kick back a fee to trainers just to get the mount, but nothing documented about that as far as I know.

Apologies, let me clarify, I just meant the cut of the purse and not the day rates. Personally, I don't like the 'track' getting involved in other people's financial transactions, the entire purse should go to the owner and then they could decide how much they pay their jockey or trainer.

[Saratoga_Mike]

It's amazing to me that jocks or trainers don't contact owners and make deals to train for less than the standard fee.

On the trainer side, this absolutely happens. I know of one very large outfit that does exactly what you describe. But the deal is on the day rate, not the 10%.

[NorCalGreg]

On the trainer side, this absolutely happens. I know of one very large outfit that does exactly what you describe. But the deal is on the day rate, not the 10%.
FLATTER TALK
Let me ask you, 'Toga Mike..or anyone else that would be able to answer...this happens so often surprised it hasn't been asked before:

1m --5-9* 4-7* 4-7*� 5-12* MartinE¨
5.5-- 7-5* 4-4* 2-1* 1-1* RosarioM¨
6f -- 4-2* 3-2*� 3-2* 2-2*� RosarioM

Cut and paste doesn't work very well in HTML, but you all get the gist. Seems Rosario is the main rider--(this horse is running today @mnr 3rd race-Flatter Talk) that last 1M racewas obviously a throw-away race.
My question is this--are the connections just too cheap to pay jockey Rosario the going rate on a race they aren't going to try to win?
You see this all the time-- this rider switch on a non-try or workout distance.
What scares me when betting, is how obvious this appears to be. Any thoughts? (Rosario is listed back today in a sprint)

[therussmeister]

Apologies, let me clarify, I just meant the cut of the purse and not the day rates. Personally, I don't like the 'track' getting involved in other people's financial transactions, the entire purse should go to the owner and then they could decide how much they pay their jockey or trainer.
I, on the other hand, am the opposite. That way the trainers are more likely to get paid on a timely basis. I've heard too many stories of owners being in arrears on money owed to trainers.

[Stillriledup]

I, on the other hand, am the opposite. That way the trainers are more likely to get paid on a timely basis. I've heard too many stories of owners being in arrears on money owed to trainers.

No doubt there are dead beat owners, I think supply and demand is the way to go, overpaying jocks and trainers do nothing for the 2 groups who support the game, owners and bettors, trainers and jocks are all easily replacable, the 'game' wouldn't lose one penny if any trainer or jock retired tomorrow.

[SuperPickle]

So I can added some persecutive.

Mount fees and percentage commissions are mandated by racing jurisdiction and automatically withdrawn from winning purses by the horseman's bookkeeper and issued to trainers and jockeys. So there's no mechanism to take more or less out with the bookkeeper.

The jockey game is so competitive that I doubt anyone's standard fee is above 10%. However where it comes into play most likely is in two areas...

If a guy like Javier Castellano has 2-3 choices in a stake race it wouldn't be unheard for someone who really wants him on their horse to offer him cash considerations or additional mounts or guarantees to get him to ride.

Another area would be asking a guy to go out of town for the day to ride a horse. If you ask a top jockey to give up a full cards mounts to go out of town to ride one race some type of compensation to make up for what he's losing at home does occur from time-to-time.

Keep in mind in Europe jockey are contracted so they get some type of salary or retainer and then their commission on top.

The Middle Eastern oil money owners are notorious for buying cars for jockeys as gifts for winning big races.

On the trainers side it's a free for all. You have all sorts of deals. Guys doing below 10% but above average daily fees. Guys doing above 10% but lower daily fees. Guys taking ownership or purse percentage instead of daily fees. Jacobson did this with Winning Move and it essentially got him fired.

[nearco]

they used to say that when Bailey rode for the Sheiks he was paid the winning share of the purse no matter where he finished but I've never seen this confirmed

I doubt that. I imagine he was on "retainer", i.e he was paid a set amount of money to be the on-call jockey whenever they wanted him, and then he got the percentage along with that.

Many of the top jockeys in Europe are "retained" to certain owners (Aga Khan, Godolphin, Coolmore, Niarchos family, etc) or to certain trainers, i.e Tom Queally always rode for Henry Cecil.

Retainers can be pretty lucrative, Frankie Dettori's retainer with Godolphin was reputedly multiple millions annually. Even in jump racing, where the prize money is less than flat racing, the recently retired AP McCoy was guaranteed $1.5m a year to be JP McManus' on call jock.
Keep in mind, that by being a retained rider, that the jock is sometimes giving up possibly more juicy rides to ride a less fancied horse for "his" owner.

[ultracapper]

When Gary Stevens left for Europe in the late 80's, early 90's, wasn't that his situation? He was basically hired by a trainer, or owner, to be there exclusively for them. Or at least to be their first call at all times anyway.

[v j stauffer]

Any mount by a rider will result in a jocks fee which is deducted from the owners account. In California it's anywhere from $75 to $150 depending on the size of the purse.

If a jockey finishes 2nd or 3rd in a Graded Stakes he's paid 5% of the owners share through the paymaster. Often times the agent will prepare an invoice requesting an additional 5%. Most of the time the owner will send the additional fee in a separate check. The key is the Stake must be Graded.

Sometimes I would choose not to ask for the additional compensation. If my jocks horse was 3/5 and finished 3rd with not the greatest of rides I'd lay low and not add insult to injury.

When traveling out of town top riders always expect what's called "10 across". All that means is the owner agrees to pay 10% of the winnings regardless of the finish position.

All the time I had Rosario, Garcia & Baze we were never offered any up front guaranteed money. If I could tell the trainer REALLY wanted us to go I'd try to get the jock into First Class. Only about half the time are they booked in Business or First. Lot's of times it's back on the benches. Of course all expenses are taken care of.

Once in a blue moon, on the rare occasion that I had a choice, and it was literally 50/50 with no after race repercussions. I might let it leak to the connections that a $500 win ticket for the jock could sway my decision. That scenario happened very infrequently.

[v j stauffer]

The agent is always responsible for taking care of all of the jocks travel logistics.

Once when I had Garcia it was very tricky. He was riding that afternoon in New Mexico for Bob Baffert. He and Bob and a few others were scheduled to fly out of LAX at 9:30am. Baffert forgot though he had Martin scheduled for a VERY important workout at 8:00am at Santa Anita. If memory serves it was Pioneer of the Nile. Now you may ask why was he working that horse when Gomez was riding him? The answer. As valuable as Martin is as a jock in the afternoon. He is equally coveted by Baffert to work his top horses. Even one's he doesn't ride. Like American Pharaoh, Martin is almost always the one who works him. Not Espinoza.

Anyway, what do about the connections? I was at clockers corner and suggested to Baffert he look into a charter. He stopped and with theatrics that would make Sir Lawrence Oliver blush, started shouting and dressed me down in front of everybody there. And made sure everyone was watching. " You're just a ****ing jocks agent, a pimp" " You don't need to be getting involved in this" " Shut up, get out of here, go to the racing office and wait for my call for entries. That is if I don't fire your ass"

Pretty much standard operating procedure for our revered white haired ambassador.

[ultracapper]

I was surprised when I learned Garcia was basically Game on Dude's workout rider. As good as Baffert has been to Garcia, I thought that that has got to hurt, riding the horse to get him race ready and watching someone else get the picture. I knew he was Looking at Lucky's morning rider also.

[v j stauffer]

I was surprised when I learned Garcia was basically Game on Dude's workout rider. As good as Baffert has been to Garcia, I thought that that has got to hurt, riding the horse to get him race ready and watching someone else get the picture. I knew he was Looking at Lucky's morning rider also.

He doesn't mind at all. His great ability to work horses perfectly is what got him in with Baffert in the first place.

Martin understands it's all for the greater good. He's a total team player.

His affiliation with Baffert has made him millions.

Martin is one of the best people I've ever had the privilege of knowing.

[Stillriledup]

Great posts Vic, really enjoyed reading them. :ThmbUp:

[Donttellmeshowme]

What about trainers that take off 15%?

[Bigadam119]

He doesn't mind at all. His great ability to work horses perfectly is what got him in with Baffert in the first place.

Martin understands it's all for the greater good. He's a total team player.

His affiliation with Baffert has made him millions.

Martin is one of the best people I've ever had the privilege of knowing.

Let me preface this by saying if you prefer not to answer I totally understand.

Do you know why Martin lost the mount on AP?

[v j stauffer]

Let me preface this by saying if you prefer not to answer I totally understand.

Do you know why Martin lost the mount on AP?

I don't know.

I will say it's been my experience as an agent the vast majority of changes that don't seem to make sense come as a result of the owner wishing to choose the rider.

Any trainer that would draw a line in the sand over such a thing would be a fool.

And remember it goes both ways. If you get taken off a horse for no good reason. The same thing will happen to the other guy and you'll be the beneficiary.

[Fager Fan]

What about trainers that take off 15%?

Who does that?

The jockey fee is deducted before payout to the owner in all jurisdictions. There is a flat rate for anything beyond third place, otherwise its 10% for first and 5% for second and third.

The only jurisdiction that deducts trainer commissions is California. If the trainer charges more than the 10%, then he'll put the extra 1% or so on the monthly training bill. It's not standard to charge more than the 10% though. I've only run across one trainer who does that.

I know of no jockey who commands more than the normal fees except for the occasion they ride out of town. That's usually fair enough but do have a problem when they want more than standard when it's the BC or another big day. Even if you did travel, so what? Are you really missing other big mounts on those days? Thanks to those owners, you have a mount or more on the big day where you want to be riding.

[olddaddy]

Vic Stauffer,

It appears you are totally out of the horse racing now and you have so much information and stories over your long career. Have you ever thought about writing a book about your experiences?

[v j stauffer]

Vic Stauffer,

It appears you are totally out of the horse racing now and you have so much information and stories over your long career. Have you ever thought about writing a book about your experiences?

Hopefully you're incorrect that I'm totally out of horse racing. While I'm on hiatus right now I'm playing lot's of tournaments and enjoying every minute of it.

I'm open to re-entering the announcing field if the right situation comes around. Also, it's always possible I can grab a condition book and take a rider or two as an agent. That's always available.

As for writing a book. I've thought about it several times. It would be fun to share stories and tell people what it's REALLY like behind the scenes.

We'll see. ;)

[ronsmac]

Turf Paradise.........Is Howard Hong still giving out picks in the simulcast show :lol: :lol:Is that the same guy who made picks at Rillito around 89 or 90?

[WP1981]

I recall Hong having some kind of health issue not too long ago. I don't think I have seen him since then.

[NorCalGreg]

Would someone "in the know" please answer post #14 in this thread? anyone? If I didn't word it correctly, be glad to re-state the question--thanks

[Ruffian1]

FLATTER TALK
Let me ask you, 'Toga Mike..or anyone else that would be able to answer...this happens so often surprised it hasn't been asked before:

1m --5-9* 4-7* 4-7*� 5-12* MartinE¨
5.5-- 7-5* 4-4* 2-1* 1-1* RosarioM¨
6f -- 4-2* 3-2*� 3-2* 2-2*� RosarioM

Cut and paste doesn't work very well in HTML, but you all get the gist. Seems Rosario is the main rider--(this horse is running today @mnr 3rd race-Flatter Talk) that last 1M racewas obviously a throw-away race.
My question is this--are the connections just too cheap to pay jockey Rosario the going rate on a race they aren't going to try to win?
You see this all the time-- this rider switch on a non-try or workout distance.
What scares me when betting, is how obvious this appears to be. Any thoughts? (Rosario is listed back today in a sprint)

You have to see if Rosario had a commitment to another horse and rode it instead of this one. They could have decided at the last minute to enter and he was already committed to another horse. Or, maybe he had days , I don't know. Did he ride another horse in that race?
As far a paying them, there is a set rate for all jocks in regular races. They pay the leading rider or the worst rider the same rate. The rates are in the condition book .
Hope that helps. follow up if not.

[Fager Fan]

Ditto. All jocks make the same percentage and flat rates except for unusual circumstances (like traveling for a race) and even then it may be normal rates plus travel expenses.