Scott Walker continuing his war against the American Worker

[horses4courses]

Scott Walker Commits Political Suicide By Promising To Step Up His War On American Workers

http://www.politicususa.com/2015/09/14/scott-walker-commits-political-suicide-promising-step-war-american-workers.html

[Tom]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/membership-rate-falls-for-u-s-unions-in-2014-1422028558

Figures released Friday by the Bureau of Labor Statistics said the combined rate of private- and public-sector union membership was 11.1% last year, down from 11.3% the prior year. Membership in the private sector fell to a rate of 6.6% in 2014, from 6.7%, while public-sector representation rose slightly to 35.7%, from 35.3%.

Seems like when you say the American worker, you either have to be talking about NON-union workers or else you are talking through your hat. First gun violence, now this - why do you keep telling lies????

Notice the highest concentration of union workers in the public sector, where service is a fairly tale! :lol:

[horses4courses]

If this is going to be the overriding theme in Walker's campaign,
you can stick a fork in him. At least, for the presidency.

Getting nominated? Not out of the question.

[Robert Goren]

Walker has been falling in the polls like a rock. If he doesn't do well in the next debate he may be the second one out. In the last poll he was at 3%. Down from 15% a few months ago. It is hard to rebound once you have been at or near the top.

[Clocker]

Notice the highest concentration of union workers in the public sector, where service is a fairly tale! :lol:

Walker seems to have slipped out of contention, barring a major comeback. So Horsey is beating a dead horse, as usual.

That said, Walker is not conducting a war on workers. He is fighting the growing power and greed of public service workers, particularly teachers. Libs conveniently forget that this was the position of FDR, in his own words:

All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations when applied to public personnel management. The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for administrative officials to represent fully or to bind the employer in mutual discussions with Government employee organizations. The employer is the whole people, who speak by means of laws enacted by their representatives in Congress. Accordingly, administrative officials and employees alike are governed and guided, and in many instances restricted, by laws which establish policies, procedures, or rules in personnel matters.

Particularly, I want to emphasize my conviction that militant tactics have no place in the functions of any organization of Government employees. Upon employees in the Federal service rests the obligation to serve the whole people, whose interests and welfare require orderliness and continuity in the conduct of Government activities. This obligation is paramount. Since their own services have to do with the functioning of the Government, a strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent on their part to prevent or obstruct the operations of Government until their demands are satisfied. Such action, looking toward the paralysis of Government by those who have sworn to support it, is unthinkable and intolerable.



http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=15445

[davew]

I thought Walker was against unions, not workers


how do unions make more jobs? workers more productive, the countries output more competitive worldwide?

[Tom]

how do unions make more jobs? workers more productive, the countries output more competitive worldwide?

By losing membership and going away.

[Pick 'em Charlie]

Walker has Wisconsin in ruins. Why would anyone want that for the nation?

At the Federal level, the unions are pretty much powerless. In 5 years, they only received about a 1 percent increase. During G.W. administration they sectioned of a large part of workers into merit pay and non union. Like most of GW's works, it failed.

[Saratoga_Mike]

http://www.politicususa.com/2015/09/14/scott-walker-commits-political-suicide-promising-step-war-american-workers.html

Define "war against the American worker."

No collective bargaining except for wages. Making an avg of $75k/year in total comp. Paying more for healthcare, but still radically less than private sector employees.

Oh the horrors.

Why does the left never complain about Obama's "war against the American worker?" Why don't the vast majority of federal employees have collective bargaining rights? Why doesn't H4C rally for the federal employee?

[Saratoga_Mike]

Walker has Wisconsin in ruins. Why would anyone want that for the nation?

At the Federal level, the unions are pretty much powerless. In 5 years, they only received about a 1 percent increase. During G.W. administration they sectioned of a large part of workers into merit pay and non union. Like most of GW's works, it failed.

Merit pay? The brutality of GWB.

[mostpost]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/membership-rate-falls-for-u-s-unions-in-2014-1422028558



Seems like when you say the American worker, you either have to be talking about NON-union workers or else you are talking through your hat. First gun violence, now this - why do you keep telling lies????

Notice the highest concentration of union workers in the public sector, where service is a fairly tale! :lol:
The biggest mistake the American worker is making is that he or she is not joining the union. They think they don't have to join because they already have all the benefits. But those benefits can just as easily be taken away. Even if they are part of the law of the land, laws can be changed or repealed.

Do you ever have contact with any government workers or are you talking out of your rectal orifice as usual? I recently went to the dreaded DMV to renew my drivers license. There were a lot of people there and it took some time; but not an unreasonable amount of time. At each station the person I talked to was courteous, knowledgeable and friendly. Of course, I start out by being courteous and friendly to them.

The two times I was treated most rudely at a business took place at a bank-two different banks. A bank is a private institution.

[Pick 'em Charlie]

Merit pay? The brutality of GWB.

In reality, it never turns out to be merit pay. With the GWB experiment, it ended up turning into favoritism.

[mostpost]

In reality, it never turns out to be merit pay. With the GWB experiment, it ended up turning into favoritism.
The question is who decides who is meritorious? In the conservative mindset, the worker is a slacker who must constantly be pushed to do more, while the manager is a dedicated individual whose judgement is always correct. If the manager keeps his job by keeping costs down, why would he approve raises even if the merit is there?

[Tom]

If the manager keeps his job by keeping costs down, why would he approve raises even if the merit is there?

Because a good manager understands the value of a good employee ( as opposed to a union employee).

The job cannot get done optimally without the cooperation of the employees.
He knows it is to his benefit to bring out the best in his people by rewarding those who deserve and taking corrective action on those who do not. Your blather doesn't change the fact the most successful companies are that way because they value teamwork and treat their people fairly without a contract.
Did you see any of the transplant auto companies going broke while GM was begging for a handout?

[Valuist]

If this is going to be the overriding theme in Walker's campaign,
you can stick a fork in him. At least, for the presidency.

Getting nominated? Not out of the question.

That's what they said when they had the recall election. And he won that geared down.

[Clocker]

If the manager keeps his job by keeping costs down, why would he approve raises even if the merit is there?

You obviously have little or no experience in the private sector, especially in management. You give people raises to reward them for good work, to keep morale up, and to keep turnover down.

There is this great liberal myth that Henry Ford gave his factory workers a large wage increase because he cared about them and because he thought that would make them all buy Fords. That is nonsense. Ford paid well above the going wage for labor because working the assembly line was a horrible job, morale was rotten, and annual turnover was several hundred percent. The $5 wage greatly reduced turnover while increasing production.

[Tom]

If all employees get paid the same, without a merit provision, then what will, and does happen is the output of everyone seeks the lowest level.

When you pay for merit, you get people to do better to get more money.

[Saratoga_Mike]

If all employees get paid the same, without a merit provision, then what will, and does happen is the output of everyone seeks the lowest level.

.

...kind of why Communism doesn't work (not accusing MP of being a Marxist of course, but...)

[thaskalos]

The question is who decides who is meritorious? In the conservative mindset, the worker is a slacker who must constantly be pushed to do more, while the manager is a dedicated individual whose judgement is always correct. If the manager keeps his job by keeping costs down, why would he approve raises even if the merit is there?
A good manager knows that "keeping costs down" has its limits. As Tom said...a meritorious provision is a necessity in the workplace...lest the quality of the work stagnate at its lowest level.

[Tom]

...kind of why Communism doesn't work (not accusing MP of being a Marxist of course, but...)

Yes, I would NEVER accuse him of being one of those! ;)

[Clocker]

A good manager knows that "keeping costs down" has its limits. As Tom said...a meritorious provision is a necessity in the workplace...lest the quality of the work stagnate at its lowest level.

Exactly. Workers know their performance and that of their co-workers, and expect to be paid accordingly. When a Seattle company recently went to a $70K minimum wage, they soon started experiencing morale and turnover problems.

Financial manager Maisey McMaster liked the idea at first — until she thought about it.

“He gave raises to people who have the least skills and are least equipped to do the job,” she told The New York Times. Meanwhile, “The ones who were taking on the most didn’t get much of a bump.”

She thought it would be fairer to give smaller raises, with the clear chance to earn more with experience. Price brushed off her doubts; she quit.

Also out the door: Web developer Grant Moran. He says, “Now the people who were just clocking in and out were making the same as me.” Plus, having your pay level a very public matter is a problem, with “friends now calling you for a loan.”

Moral of the story: Some people work harder than others; some have stronger skills — and they don’t think it’s fair that they’re paid the same as others.



http://nypost.com/2015/08/04/exec-who-set-70k-minimum-wage-learns-tough-lesson/

[Robert Goren]

Merit raises are almost based on who does the best job of "brown nosing" their bosses. Promotions are generally based, but not always on merit. It has been my experience that the most productive workers are a "pain in the ass" to deal with from a management point of view. I had one cashier who managed to at least double the take of any other cashier on the same shift at the same garage. The parkers loved her and she made sure they relayed that message to me. She was such a jerk that it took every bit of self restraint to keep me from firing her. I had to keep reminding myself that she was just a carbon copy of me. I got her promoted and out of my hair. As a manager, she showed the same skills she did as a cashier.
I have always believed you pay good people well above the going wage and get rid of everybody else. That always worked for me where my bosses allowed me to do it. I knew of one outfit that believe in paying the lowest possible wage and firing the worst hires. They thought if they could get 3 months out of a decent employee before they left for more money, they were ahead of the game. They had tremendous turnover and eventually went out of business. Most businesses that fail do so because they do not have good enough employees. Think about it for a second! How many times have you refused to do repeat business with a company because you got lousy service from one of its employees even though the product itself was acceptable.

[Saratoga_Mike]

I have always believed you pay good people well above the going wage and get rid of everybody else.

We might just make a Republican out of you after all.

[fast4522]

Time for a tune.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug8cBIbxDaY

[Robert Goren]

We might just make a Republican out of you after all.I have never seen a republican that practiced that. Every republican I ever met believe there are only two kinds of workers, overpaid and totally worthless.

[ArlJim78]

it turns out that not all American workers are in favor of compulsory contributions to the democratic party. public unions should be abolished.

[mostpost]

There are a couple of things wrong with this idea that the boss will reward workers for outstanding performance. One, it assumes the boss is competent to decide who is doing the better job. Two, it assumes that if the employee is dissatisfied, he has another job to go to. That is not the case now when there are more people looking for jobs than there are jobs looking for people. Three there are many jobs where it is difficult for the employee to separate themselves from the "Herd."

[mostpost]

it turns out that not all American workers are in favor of compulsory contributions to the democratic party. public unions should be abolished.
There is no compulsory membership in Federal public unions. I know because this was made clear to me when I went to work for the United States Postal Service. I do not know for certain about state and local unions, but I think the same is true there.

If you belong to the union you are compelled to pay the dues. NONE of the dues money is used to support any candidate, party or political cause. Money for that purpose is raised through voluntary contributions.

Dues are used to pay the business of the union; to pay salaries of union officials and staff; to pay lawyers and negotiators; to pay the costs of grievances and court cases and for general expenses. Again, it is against federal law to use dues money for political purposes.

[Tom]

Merit raises are almost based on who does the best job of "brown nosing" their bosses.

That has not been my experience at all.
That accusation is common among those not willing to display merit as some kind of defense mechanism, but generally, the better workers always got the better pay. Brown nosing doesn't get the job done, and those who hand out the raises damn well have to answer to those above them who expect performance.

[Tom]

I have never seen a republican that practiced that. Every republican I ever met believe there are only two kinds of workers, overpaid and totally worthless.

Again, total nonsense.
All good managers I know have bent over backwards to groom others to do their jobs and move ahead. Conservative are results based, not outcome based.

[Tom]

Three there are many jobs where it is difficult for the employee to separate themselves from the "Herd."

In 43 years of working, I have NEVER seen a job that fit that description.
Anyone can stand out if they put in the effort. Unless it is a union herd, then success is not an option.

[Clocker]

In 43 years of working, I have NEVER seen a job that fit that description.
Anyone can stand out if they put in the effort. Unless it is a union herd, then success is not an option.

As Woody Allen said, 80% of success is just showing up. Even if you are in a drone position, if you show up on time every day, don't call in sick, dress appropriately, and just do your job, you are going to stand out from the herd.

[thaskalos]

In 43 years of working, I have NEVER seen a job that fit that description.
Anyone can stand out if they put in the effort. Unless it is a union herd, then success is not an option.
The only job like that that I've ever encountered was when I briefly worked at the same factory where my father worked, while I was attending college. I was working the graveyard shift...and the only people in the entire plant during that time-period were I...and the security guard at the door. I worked there 6 months...with only my cassette player to keep me company.

To get trained to use the machines that I needed to use...I worked the morning shift for about a week or so. When the foreman there saw that I was catching on to the work faster than he thought I would...he pulled me aside and told me:

"Listen, kid. Your first week on your own...make sure that you don't make more than 500 pieces a day of this particular product that you are supposed to be making. On your second week...up your production to 600 pieces a day...and on your third week, make 750 pieces a day...and that's where you stay for good. Because the way you are going now...the bosses will realize that the work is too easy...and they will raise the rate on us".

I told him that I wanted to work hard and make a good impression...but the foreman didn't see things my way. "Here...they only pay us enough so we don't quit...so, the smart thing to do is to work just hard enough so we don't get fired"...he told me.

I had to listen to him...so, in my 6 months there, I got all my work done in 4 hours...and spent the other 4 hours reading in the cafeteria. I only returned to my work station when it was almost time to leave...so the newly-arriving morning shift could see me pretending to clean my workstation before I left.

That's what happens in the workplace when there is no incentive given to the worker to try and do the best job that he is capable of doing.

[ReplayRandall]

I had to listen to him...so, in my 6 months there, I got all my work done in 4 hours...and spent the other 4 hours reading in the cafeteria.

Thus, the catalyst for another Horseplayer was born.... ;)

[thaskalos]

Thus, the catalyst for another Horseplayer was born.... ;)
Hey...I never THOUGHT of that! :ThmbUp:

[Saratoga_Mike]

The only job like that that I've ever encountered was when I briefly worked at the same factory where my father worked, while I was attending college. I was working the graveyard shift...and the only people in the entire plant during that time-period were I...and the security guard at the door. I worked there 6 months...with only my cassette player to keep me company.

To get trained to use the machines that I needed to use...I worked the morning shift for about a week or so. When the foreman there saw that I was catching on to the work faster than he thought I would...he pulled me aside and told me:

"Listen, kid. Your first week on your own...make sure that you don't make more than 500 pieces a day of this particular product that you are supposed to be making. On your second week...up your production to 600 pieces a day...and on your third week, make 750 pieces a day...and that's where you stay for good. Because the way you are going now...the bosses will realize that the work is too easy...and they will raise the rate on us".

I told him that I wanted to work hard and make a good impression...but the foreman didn't see things my way. "Here...they only pay us enough so we don't quit...so, the smart thing to do is to work just hard enough so we don't get fired"...he told me.

I had to listen to him...so, in my 6 months there, I got all my work done in 4 hours...and spent the other 4 hours reading in the cafeteria. I only returned to my work station when it was almost time to leave...so the newly-arriving morning shift could see me pretending to clean my workstation before I left.

That's what happens in the workplace when there is no incentive given to the worker to try and do the best job that he is capable of doing.

Was this in Greece?

[thaskalos]

Was this in Greece?

No. It was in Skokie, Illinois.

[Saratoga_Mike]

No. It was in Skokie, Illinois.

Had to take a shot!

[LottaKash]

Again, it is against federal law to use dues money for political purposes.

Jimmy Hoffa, and the boys, must be laughing their asses off, wherever they are now... :lol:

[davew]

No. It was in Skokie, Illinois.

if that factory us still there, they now have 24 security cameras saving all cameras to a computer so some supervisor can fast forward replay and see what happened during the last day....

[thaskalos]

if that factory us still there, they now have 24 security cameras saving all cameras to a computer so some supervisor can fast forward replay and see what happened during the last day....
That doesn't affect me much...because my last day there was about 34 years ago.

[ArlJim78]

There is no compulsory membership in Federal public unions. I know because this was made clear to me when I went to work for the United States Postal Service. I do not know for certain about state and local unions, but I think the same is true there.

If you belong to the union you are compelled to pay the dues. NONE of the dues money is used to support any candidate, party or political cause. Money for that purpose is raised through voluntary contributions.

Dues are used to pay the business of the union; to pay salaries of union officials and staff; to pay lawyers and negotiators; to pay the costs of grievances and court cases and for general expenses. Again, it is against federal law to use dues money for political purposes.
That's hilarious. Get real, the money is all in the same pot. Like everything to do with unions there is a convoluted set-up that's easy to get around, and tough to prove. they make you affirmatively opt out year after year in some cases, since people have to pay dues in any case, over time inertia takes over and people just submit or give up. there is a supreme court case which will hopefully correct this requirement and require opt-ins. They've defined the activities in such a way that there are very few things that you can actually opt out of and many things that are blatantly political in nature that are defined as non-political.

the list of the top political donors is crowded with public union dollars, so the money is getting through all this "careful separation" into political and non political activities. a quick search and I learned that very little of union dues goes to non political, strictly administrative spending. the vast majority of their spending is political. as I've said before with public unions both parties are on the same side of the table (the unions and democrats) with the taxpayers on the outside left holding the bag.

[Clocker]

the vast majority of their spending is political. as I've said before with public unions both parties are on the same side of the table (the unions and democrats) with the taxpayers on the outside left holding the bag.

I am shocked, shocked to hear someone suggest that the union SuperPacs spending millions of dollars on "contributions, gifts, and grants" promoting the best interests of the members is political. :eek:

[Robert Goren]

Again, total nonsense.
All good managers I know have bent over backwards to groom others to do their jobs and move ahead. Conservative are results based, not outcome based.You have had something very rare in the corporate world, outstanding managers. Most of my bosses were interested in two things, How to deflect their mistakes off onto somebody else and Where they could take a two hour lunch break without being spotted. When I was a manager, most of the time I spent dealing with a series of incompetent bosses and pulling knives out my back put there by either fellow facility managers or by employees who wanted me fired so they could take my job.
I did hire a cashier to groom to eventually take over my job when it became clear that I would have to go back to an entry level cashier's job for health reasons. She got a taste of it when an evening supervisor was off the job for 4 months because of a injury on the job. After that stint she made very clear she was very happy being a cashier. She has now been a cashier for 16 years. Although she would have been a good facility manager, she probably made the right decision for her and with the added business she brings into her garage on her shift, she is worth more to the company as cashier. She brings in so much added business that would probably be true even if she was getting manager's wages. I guarantee her current managers have no clue about how valuable she is. They are too busy covering shifts for their friends whom they hired and have decided not to show up to even notice she is there.

[wisconsin]

Walker has Wisconsin in ruins.

Umm please explain.

[Actor]

Walker’s plan calls for ... making it illegal for federal workers to form labor unions.That's already illegal. Federal workers do have a union but by law it is powerless to do anything except sell Health Insurance and have annual picnics.

[NorCalGreg]

That's already illegal. Federal workers do have a union but by law it is powerless to do anything except sell Health Insurance and have annual picnics.

Take a drive down to your Teamster's Union Hall...or any Union Hall, and check out the nice cars in their lot. Nicer than that old Chevy your driving. Oh YOU can't park in their gated lot, that gate is there to keep the riff-raff out. You ever wonder why the national conventions and regional meetings are always held in resort places like Vegas, Orlando, Montreal, Cabo, etc. I thought maybe once, just for appearances, they would have it in Detroit, or Cleveland or some other Blue Collar town. Don't hold your breath. Who wants a vacation in Cleveland?

[Actor]

Take a drive down to your Teamster's Union Hall...Teamster's do not represent Federal Employees. :rolleyes:

[ebcorde]

Take a drive down to your Teamster's Union Hall...or any Union Hall, and check out the nice cars in their lot. Nicer than that old Chevy your driving. Oh YOU can't park in their gated lot, that gate is there to keep the riff-raff out. You ever wonder why the national conventions and regional meetings are always held in resort places like Vegas, Orlando, Montreal, Cabo, etc. I thought maybe once, just for appearances, they would have it in Detroit, or Cleveland or some other Blue Collar town. Don't hold your breath. Who wants a vacation in Cleveland?

Yet he has no problems with Police Unions , Firemen's Unions. So he discriminates by Job type. And he expects a guy like Trump to hire High rise construction workers off the street. Who will be training these guys? Who trains the teachers? Corporations don't train. Regardless Scott Walker is a professional Politician.


After watching the debate, America is doomed. our system has advantages and disadvantages. We will lose because of our social issues. Progress so so slow, they rather fight over some dummy in Kentucky, abortion rights. I clearly see how China can pivot and change so fast, they're focused on their economy and doing it without TAX CUTS. I wished Trump had said "Fine give me a tax cut, I'm not putting it into my business, I'm keeping it"

Fed reserve gives money away at 0% and we have an unemployment rate over 5%. why's that? Free money and no one is hiring, oh but a 25% Tax cut will do the Hiring, yeah right. Why is 5% unemployment considered swell. it used to be 3% was considered average and 5% sucked. Back in my youth, the 70's I could get a job in 1 day. I lived outside AC, I hit a few restaurants on Boardwalk, get a job by late afternoon.

And I'm tired of the "put a fist in your face and you do what we want" The " if I don't get what I want America". Seems to me they just want to run the world. And if you disagree with them we will punish you.

[delayjf]

I clearly see how China can pivot and change so fast, they're focused on their economy and doing it without TAX CUTS.

I for one, would not like to live or work in China.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Yet he has no problems with Police Unions , Firemen's Unions. So he discriminates by Job type. .

That's fine - dangerous public service jobs should be given special consideration.

[ebcorde]

I for one, would not like to live or work in China.
you will at 330+ million if you're under 50 you'll see 450 million and no benefits or social security.

my point simply was China is a top down government, if they see the need to make a change. done! Here, we squabble because one guy is for guns , another thinks it should be limited , and because of that we have to disagree on almost everything , takes years or when it's too late to make change.

it's a car race out there, in IT I was told back in 1991 that India was going to takeover IT in America. They did it. The Indian government pushed as many people as they could into STEM fields and sent some overseas. Meanwhile here, our child's education is determined by some Local Christian church lady who thinks the world was built by God in 7 days. The Majority of Iranian college kids could do the work at MIT, their government pushes the sciences. what they don't have is the money for the research ad development, that's why they come here

[ebcorde]

I for one, would not like to live or work in China.

also we've been cutting taxes to the bone for 14 years and cannot approach the lowest unemployment rates of the Clinton years low to mid 4%. back in the days before Reagan the unemployment rate often went below 4% into the 2's, and 3%'s, the highest bracket was taxed at 90% forcing them to invest in companies and collect dividends, Today it's Carly Fiorina makes 100 million because she laid off thousands.

you're a horse guy read about Augustus Belmont a 1%'er back in the early 20th century

[Saratoga_Mike]

Meanwhile here, our child's education is determined by some Local Christian church lady who thinks the world was built by God in 7 days. The Majority of Iranian college kids could do the work at MIT, their government pushes the sciences. what they don't have is the money for the research ad development, that's why they come here

Exaggerate much?

[Saratoga_Mike]

back in the days before Reagan the unemployment rate often went below 4% into the 2's,

You either make stuff up or have a poor memory. Your above claim about unemployment in the 2s is patently false.

[Tom]

Teamster's do not represent Federal Employees. :rolleyes:
They don't represent truckers, either.

[davew]

You either make stuff up or have a poor memory. Your above claim about unemployment in the 2s is patently false.

maybe if they calculated it like they do today...

[delayjf]

you will at 330+ million if you're under 50 you'll see 450 million and no benefits or social security.

I still would not want to work or live in China under communist rule.

my point simply was China is a top down government, if they see the need to make a change. done!

Well, fear is a major motivator in China, as it is in Korea and for good reason. I would take our way of life and our economic achievement over China's any day.

God in 7 days
Given that God has been around for all eternity - what do you supposed constitutes a "day" for God.

[Robert Goren]

you will at 330+ million if you're under 50 you'll see 450 million and no benefits or social security.

my point simply was China is a top down government, if they see the need to make a change. done! Here, we squabble because one guy is for guns , another thinks it should be limited , and because of that we have to disagree on almost everything , takes years or when it's too late to make change.

it's a car race out there, in IT I was told back in 1991 that India was going to takeover IT in America. They did it. The Indian government pushed as many people as they could into STEM fields and sent some overseas. Meanwhile here, our child's education is determined by some Local Christian church lady who thinks the world was built by God in 7 days. The Majority of Iranian college kids could do the work at MIT, their government pushes the sciences. what they don't have is the money for the research ad development, that's why they come hereWhile in most places that is not true, but it is true in far too many places. It used to be that republicans were the biggest supporters of science education, but since the GOP has welcomed the anti-stem cell research fringe about 20 years ago , anything involving science has become increasing off-limits for republicans. It even showed up in the last debate with a discussion of vaccines for children.

[delayjf]

Meanwhile here, our child's education is determined by some Local Christian church lady who thinks the world was built by God in 7 days.
Please provide an example of the above.

[Tom]

It even showed up in the last debate with a discussion of vaccines for children.

This from the global warming people? :lol: :lol: :lol: