AL Cy Young race 2015

[Stillriledup]

I guess all these guys are better than Nathan Eovaldi?

Hmm, good to know.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/25281210/al-cy-young-watch-gray-archer-on-also-rans-but-battling-keuchel-price

[dnlgfnk]

Eovaldi has no chance.

Splits are heavily tilted to success at home vs. righties...road era is 4.94 and he gets the 4th best run support in baseball, if one is impressed by the sexy won-loss record.

[MutuelClerk]

They are better. Case closed.

[MutuelClerk]

JV has a no-no thru 7.

[Stillriledup]

Eovaldi has no chance.

Splits are heavily tilted to success at home vs. righties...road era is 4.94 and he gets the 4th best run support in baseball, if one is impressed by the sexy won-loss record.

Era means nothing at all, pitchers adjust to game situations, a pitch in the 5th inning with a 12 run lead isn't equivalent to a pitch in the 8th inning of a tie game. As far as win loss goes, it should hold a lot of weight.

[MutuelClerk]

ERA means wayyyyy more than wins my friend. Damnit JV. So close.

[Stillriledup]

ERA means wayyyyy more than wins my friend. Damnit JV. So close.

It does?

[MutuelClerk]

Personally I believe it does. Wins, especially these days if you have a solid bullpen or a strong offensive team can tilt the amount of wins you have. Good team defense can help a pitchers ERA, but overall I believe you can tell more about a starting pitcher by his ERA and WHIP than you can wins.

[Valuist]

All those guys are better than Eovaldi.

NL race? Greinke, Kershaw, DeGrom and Arrieta all in the running.

[dnlgfnk]

Era means nothing at all, pitchers adjust to game situations, a pitch in the 5th inning with a 12 run lead isn't equivalent to a pitch in the 8th inning of a tie game. As far as win loss goes, it should hold a lot of weight.

ERA means a lot to the old school voters in the BBWAA. And the saber voters would lodge even a greater case against Eovaldi.

[Stillriledup]

All those guys are better than Eovaldi.

NL race? Greinke, Kershaw, DeGrom and Arrieta all in the running.

Not better at winning.

[Stillriledup]

All those guys are better than Eovaldi.

NL race? Greinke, Kershaw, DeGrom and Arrieta all in the running.

You think the Yankees would trade this guy straight up for all of the pitchers on that list?

[MutuelClerk]

If contracts were equal. As you Yankee fans say, in a New York minute. Just wondering SRU do you still believe in the sac bunt?

[Stillriledup]

If contracts were equal. As you Yankee fans say, in a New York minute. Just wondering SRU do you still believe in the sac bunt?

I would say in most cases the sac bunt is a bad play, maybe when it's the pitcher who can't hit a lick I would say its not as bad a play but overall I'm not really a fan of giving up 33pct of your allotted outs in one inning to get a guy one base further.

I don't agree on the equal contracts thing, ths is why it pays to watch the games.

[Valuist]

You think the Yankees would trade this guy straight up for all of the pitchers on that list?

Yes they would. They have a lineup capable of scoring a lot of runs. Eovaldi has been extremely fortunate to get the run support he gets.

For a guy who has one of the highest fastballs in MLB, he has really few strikeouts. That means his pitches are flat, and he doesn't miss bats.

[Stillriledup]

Yes they would. They have a lineup capable of scoring a lot of runs. Eovaldi has been extremely fortunate to get the run support he gets.

For a guy who has one of the highest fastballs in MLB, he has really few strikeouts. That means his pitches are flat, and he doesn't miss bats.

He's a completely transformed pitcher using new pitches, he's still trying to hone in on his craft a bit. I think fastballs need to be located better, his off speed pitches become more effective if you know he can throw hard. I read that too about his batting practice fastballs, hopefully he can learn to get a little movement on those pitches.

[Valuist]

Here's the run support numbers for pitchers. Needless to say, Eovaldi is toward the top along with guys like Coby Lewis and Hutchinson. Coby Lewis has one of the better records in baseball but guys fight at the bat rack to get to the plate against him.

http://www.sportingcharts.com/mlb/stats/pitching-run-support-per-nine-innings-leaders/2015/

[Stillriledup]

Here's the run support numbers for pitchers. Needless to say, Eovaldi is toward the top along with guys like Coby Lewis and Hutchinson. Coby Lewis has one of the better records in baseball but guys fight at the bat rack to get to the plate against him.

http://www.sportingcharts.com/mlb/stats/pitching-run-support-per-nine-innings-leaders/2015/

A pitcher shouldn't have it held against him if his team wins 10-1 because if the team with the 10 only scores 2, they still win.

Nasty Nate just beat houston 1-0.

[Valuist]

A pitcher shouldn't have it held against him if his team wins 10-1 because if the team with the 10 only scores 2, they still win.

Nasty Nate just beat houston 1-0.

The point is a pitcher's win/loss record is heavily dependent on the run support he receives. Something he has no control over. A pitcher with a good win loss record but mediocre in other categories isn't going to win a Cy Young award. What would Eovaldi's record be if he got Shelby Miller's run support?

[Stillriledup]

The point is a pitcher's win/loss record is heavily dependent on the run support he receives. Something he has no control over. A pitcher with a good win loss record but mediocre in other categories isn't going to win a Cy Young award. What would Eovaldi's record be if he got Shelby Miller's run support?

Here's my point let me explain it another way. Lets say a pitcher wins a game 9-8. He doesn't get as much credit for that win as he would if he won 1-0, BUT, who's to say the pitcher who gave up the 8 spot would have still given up 8 had his team only scored 3?

[Valuist]

Here's my point let me explain it another way. Lets say a pitcher wins a game 9-8. He doesn't get as much credit for that win as he would if he won 1-0, BUT, who's to say the pitcher who gave up the 8 spot would have still given up 8 had his team only scored 3?

I understand your point. I just don't agree with it. Since baseball players are paid based on the stats they put up, why wouldn't a pitcher post a better ERA, better WHIP, better XFIP if they were capable of doing it? I can just hear a pitcher now "I could've gone 7 innings of 4 hit 1 run pitching, but I had too much fun going 5 1/3 giving up 9 hits and 5 runs."

I guarantee you when pitchers with big records and bad peripheral numbers (like Eovaldi and Hutchison), when its arbitration time, those teams aren't going to be talking about the win/loss records. They will talk about how lucky they were; that they can't always count on strong run support.

[MutuelClerk]

I understand the point too. With the way the game is played today. Starters being pulled so early. Very few starters pitch to the score. Usually just the elite and probably more so in the playoffs. I believe SRU had a valid point at one time. Although his point is keeping Jack Morris out of the HOF.

[Stillriledup]

I understand your point. I just don't agree with it. Since baseball players are paid based on the stats they put up, why wouldn't a pitcher post a better ERA, better WHIP, better XFIP if they were capable of doing it? I can just hear a pitcher now "I could've gone 7 innings of 4 hit 1 run pitching, but I had too much fun going 5 1/3 giving up 9 hits and 5 runs."

I guarantee you when pitchers with big records and bad peripheral numbers (like Eovaldi and Hutchison), when its arbitration time, those teams aren't going to be talking about the win/loss records. They will talk about how lucky they were; that they can't always count on strong run support.

It's human nature to ease up w big lead. There's only so many high velocity pitches a person can throw, when you have a big lead you ease up and save something for the next start. Humans are just not pitching with the same intensity with a. 9 run lead as they are in a tie game.

[Stillriledup]

Nasty Nate wins again,

14-2 ;)

[MutuelClerk]

Surprised he didn't pitch to the game situation and try and make it 14-13. :)

[thaskalos]

All those guys are better than Eovaldi.

NL race? Greinke, Kershaw, DeGrom and Arrieta all in the running.
Jake Arrieta ultra-dominant tonight. No-hits the Dodgers while striking out the side in the 9th!

[Stillriledup]

Surprised he didn't pitch to the game situation and try and make it 14-13. :)

He did, but he's so inherently good that even at half speed he was dominant. ;)

[ManU918]

http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a532/Oxbow13/AL%20Cy%20Young_zpsnzvogsgb.png (http://s1282.photobucket.com/user/Oxbow13/media/AL%20Cy%20Young_zpsnzvogsgb.png.html)

14 players received at least a 5th place vote. Eovaldi received zero votes. hahahahahahahahahaahaha.

[Stillriledup]

http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a532/Oxbow13/AL%20Cy%20Young_zpsnzvogsgb.png (http://s1282.photobucket.com/user/Oxbow13/media/AL%20Cy%20Young_zpsnzvogsgb.png.html)

14 players received at least a 5th place vote. Eovaldi received zero votes. hahahahahahahahahaahaha.

Wow, making fun of a guy getting injured. :eek:

[ManU918]

Wow, making fun of a guy getting injured. :eek:

He pitched into September. If he was "Cy Young contender worthy" he would have at least received one 5th place vote. Plenty of people in the past have received votes who were injured or didn't play for a portion of a season in a given league. Eovaldi was nowhere near Cy Young worthy but then again you knew that all along. You just like to create these types of threads to troll.

[Stillriledup]

He pitched into September. If he was "Cy Young contender worthy" he would have at least received one 5th place vote. Plenty of people in the past have received votes who were injured or didn't play for a portion of a season in a given league. Eovaldi was nowhere near Cy Young worthy but then again you knew that all along. You just like to create these types of threads to troll.

I'm not the one who bumped an old thread to gloat about this, you were. The guy who won the cy young was 20-8 and my guy was 14-3 pitching with an injury, my guy s better, if the Astros offered their cy young winner for Eovaldi straight up I'd laugh in their face.

[ManU918]

I'm not the one who bumped an old thread to gloat about this, you were. The guy who won the cy young was 20-8 and my guy was 14-3 pitching with an injury, my guy s better, if the Astros offered their cy young winner for Eovaldi straight up I'd laugh in their face.

I've seen you bump threads that were multiple years old. This thread isn't even three months old. Not gloating just wanted to point out that this thread like most of your posts are absolute garbage and carry zero weight. The guy didn't get one 5th place vote but yet in your mind you wouldn't trade him for the reigning CY Young Award winner. You make my point for me. You're a troll.

[Stillriledup]

I've seen you bump threads that were multiple years old. This thread isn't even three months old. Not gloating just wanted to point out that this thread like most of your posts are absolute garbage and carry zero weight. The guy didn't get one 5th place vote but yet in your mind you wouldn't trade him for the reigning CY Young Award winner. You make my point for me. You're a troll.

Why is it that the culture of Pace Advantage is of all these 5th grade tactics and silly juvenile name calling? We can't disagree without calling someone a troll or a punk (not you, others toss the P word around quite liberally) ?

Most of my posts are garbage? I'm probably the most 'read' poster at this site, I'm pretty sure the sharp crowd at PA isn't reading 'garbage' if that's my reputation, oh there's SRU again posting garbage, but I think I'll read it anyway? Um no, my threads would go largely ignored if garbage is what I'm putting out.

So Nasty Nate didnt get any Cy Young votes, I'm allowed to have an opinion on him just like you have yours, no need for the silly nonsense, you just drag down PA with stuff like this, there's no need for it.

[ManU918]

Why is it that the culture of Pace Advantage is of all these 5th grade tactics and silly juvenile name calling? We can't disagree without calling someone a troll or a punk (not you, others toss the P word around quite liberally) ?

Most of my posts are garbage? I'm probably the most 'read' poster at this site, I'm pretty sure the sharp crowd at PA isn't reading 'garbage' if that's my reputation, oh there's SRU again posting garbage, but I think I'll read it anyway? Um no, my threads would go largely ignored if garbage is what I'm putting out.

So Nasty Nate didnt get any Cy Young votes, I'm allowed to have an opinion on him just like you have yours, no need for the silly nonsense, you just drag down PA with stuff like this, there's no need for it.

5th grade tactics, silly name calling... Are you done yet? You are what you are an internet troll. Nothing more nothing less.

If you are the most read poster on this site its because you have the most posts over the years since your join date. Not because people are interested in what you have to say. Quality over quantity but in your case its quantity over quality. Some of your threads do go ignored. You've created 6 threads in the last month that have 0 responses. You act as if PA wouldn't go on if you stopped posting. In fact it would be better if you stopped because the quality of posts around here would improve.

Silly nonsense... The silly nonsense is coming from you. This isn't a debatable topic. Keuchel is better than Eovaldi... That is a fact... But you'll be a troll and say Eovaldi is better... Why? Because you're a troll. No one in baseball, no one in statistics, no one that knows anything about sports would take Eovaldi over Keuchel.

[Stillriledup]

5th grade tactics, silly name calling... Are you done yet? You are what you are an internet troll. Nothing more nothing less.

If you are the most read poster on this site its because you have the most posts over the years since your join date. Not because people are interested in what you have to say. Quality over quantity but in your case its quantity over quality. Some of your threads do go ignored. You've created 6 threads in the last month that have 0 responses. You act as if PA wouldn't go on if you stopped posting. In fact it would be better if you stopped because the quality of posts around here would improve.

Silly nonsense... The silly nonsense is coming from you. This isn't a debatable topic. Keuchel is better than Eovaldi... That is a fact... But you'll be a troll and say Eovaldi is better... Why? Because you're a troll. No one in baseball, no one in statistics, no one that knows anything about sports would take Eovaldi over Keuchel.

Most read is most read, no other way to spin it.

If you don't agree with a post, you're allowed to act like an adult and respectfully disagree, but no, there you go again with the 5th grade stuff.

From now on if you want a response from me, you're going to have to act like an adult, think you can do that?

Like I said, ill take Nasty Nate over Dallas, Nate is younger and throws harder and can obviously handle the pressure of NY, kind of a no brainer actually.

[ManU918]

Most read is most read, no other way to spin it.

If you don't agree with a post, you're allowed to act like an adult and respectfully disagree, but no, there you go again with the 5th grade stuff.

From now on if you want a response from me, you're going to have to act like an adult, think you can do that?

Like I said, ill take Nasty Nate over Dallas, Nate is younger and throws harder and can obviously handle the pressure of NY, kind of a no brainer actually.

Most read is most read? I can create threads and submit posts in previously created threads that hold no weight to enhance my post count but I have zero interest in doing so. What does one get out of a high post count? Nothing.

If you want to talk about being an adult... Then lets do so.. As an adult who only averages 1 post per day here, I have posted more winning tickets in the last month than you have posted in your 6 years here (even longer if you include previous handles). So if you want to start talking about being an adult and acting like one then start posting some winning tickets. Outside of the winning tickets how many posters have you met at your local horse parlor or poker room? How many posters here do you or have you interacted with outside of PA? Lets consider all of those before you start "adult" talk.

[Stillriledup]

Most read is most read? I can create threads and submit posts in previously created threads that hold no weight to enhance my post count but I have zero interest in doing so. What does one get out of a high post count? Nothing.

If you want to talk about being an adult... Then lets do so.. As an adult who only averages 1 post per day here, I have posted more winning tickets in the last month than you have posted in your 6 years here (even longer if you include previous handles). So if you want to start talking about being an adult and acting like one then start posting some winning tickets. Outside of the winning tickets how many posters have you met at your local horse parlor or poker room? How many posters here do you or have you interacted with outside of PA? Lets consider all of those before you start "adult" talk.

Thanks, I appreciate the tone of this post.

I don't know what you've posted or didn't post, if you're giving out winners, I can appreciate and respect that, Keep up the great work.

As far as adult talk, I just don't want to deal with the troll talk and the other assorted names, it's ok to disagree on topics, we don't all have to see eye to eye all the time.

[andtheyreoff]

Eovaldi's given up 5 runs through 3 1/3 innings in his 2016 debut. Apparently, he may not have been Cy Young-worthy after all.

[Marshall Bennett]

Eovaldi's given up 5 runs through 3 1/3 innings in his 2016 debut. Apparently, he may not have been Cy Young-worthy after all.
You're judging his ability and future by 3 1/3 innings of work?

[Valuist]

You're judging his ability and future by 3 1/3 innings of work?

His entire body of work shows he wasn't remotely close to Cy Young worthy. He happened to benefit from a lot of run support from the Yankee hitters. But his performance level was decent, not spectacular.

[Stillriledup]

Eovaldi's given up 5 runs through 3 1/3 innings in his 2016 debut. Apparently, he may not have been Cy Young-worthy after all.
Nasty Nate

[MutuelClerk]

Sigh Young.

[dnlgfnk]

Conversations about Nate and excellence at least deserve some merit after tonight, as opposed to the silly debate last season. He ranks 7th in baseball in the Sabermetric stat "Skill-Interactive Era", or Siera.

Wonder if he's on his way.