Virginia shooting!!!

[Kash$]

Virginia News Reporter, Photographer Killed in Shooting on Live TV (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCMQqQIwAGoVChMI0r_blOzGxwIViRYeCh2RSwZq&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwhotv.com%2F2015%2F08%2F26%2Fsusp ected-active-shooter-investigation-involving-virginia-news-crew%2F&ei=4b3dVZLLEYmteJGXmdAG&usg=AFQjCNHSYK3Hit9ReQBMXEOEN4HSmQCkeA)

[Rookies]

"Gov. Terry McAuliffe said the shooter was believed to be a disgruntled employee of the TV station and was being chased by police on Interstate 64. The governor said his arrest should be “imminent.”

Arrrggghhh. The endless 'Groundhog Day' version of senseless, violence rears it's horrific head again, against the innocent.

[Valuist]

Sounds like it may be racially motivated.

[woodtoo]

Sounds like it may be racially motivated.
Yup, what a useless excuse of a human being. :bang:

[Clocker]

Hey, the guy was a victim. He left a 23 page manifesto/suicide note blaming just about everyone in the world except himself.

He was gay and black and suffered racial discrimination, sexual harassment and bullying at work and elsewhere. He says that the stress has been building up and the racism of the Charleston church shooting finally put him over the top.

I can't wait for the spin on this from the #BlackLivesMatter folks. :rolleyes:

[Clocker]

Hillary sets new land speed record in connecting TV shooting to need for more gun control.


Hillary Clinton argued that more gun control could have prevented Vester Lee Flanagan from murdering WDBJ reporter Alison Parker and cameraman Adam Warn on live television Wednesday.

Clinton, speaking at Des Moines Area Community College, said “if guns were not so readily available, if we had universal background checks… maybe we could prevent this kind of carnage.”

She emphasized how this case showed the need for a waiting period for weapons purchases, to give people time to calm down.

if we could just, put some time-out between the person who’s upset, because he got fired or the domestic abuse or whatever other motivation may be working on someone who does this, that maybe we could prevent this kind of carnage

I wonder what kind of a time-out period she would recommend. The shooter was fired from this TV station 2 years ago.

Maybe we need a waiting period for clueless politicians to allow them to learn the facts before casting blame.

http://dailycaller.com/2015/08/26/hillary-responds-to-shooting-of-journalists-hopefully-now-we-will-act-video/

[ArlJim78]

I wonder if Obama will be singing Amazing Grace at the funeral for these victims of a racial hate crime?

Just kidding - they're white.

[woodtoo]

I wonder if Obama will be singing Amazing Grace at the funeral for these victims of a racial hate crime?

Just kidding - they're white.
Will he acknowledge it is a better question.

[Clocker]

Will he acknowledge it is a better question.

I don't believe he has. His press flack as usual used the incident to call for more gun control.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/252005-white-house-va-shooting-an-all-too-common-example-of-gun-violence

[tucker6]

Will he acknowledge it is a better question.
A better question is does your question even need to be asked.

[tucker6]

I don't believe he has. His press flack as usual used the incident to call for more gun control.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/252005-white-house-va-shooting-an-all-too-common-example-of-gun-violence
What will they do when the riots start tonight?? After all, saltines need TV's and boots too.

[NJ Stinks]

I don't believe he has. His press flack as usual used the incident to call for more gun control.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/252005-white-house-va-shooting-an-all-too-common-example-of-gun-violence

Why would we need gun control? Obviously, it's better to just hope that everyone is in a good mood 24-7. :rolleyes:

[Hoofless_Wonder]

Sounds like it may be racially motivated.

Absolutely. Charles Manson and Helter Skelter lives, with a race war always sputtering on the sidelines.

[Clocker]

Why would we need gun control? Obviously, it's better to just hope that everyone is in a good mood 24-7. :rolleyes:

We already have excessive gun control in this country, too much of it ineffective and/or unenforced. What we need is smarter gun control. But the people who cheapen these incidents by using them for their own means are clueless about the issue. They are just looking for a warm and fuzzy feeling.

[Robert Goren]

We already have excessive gun control in this country, too much of it ineffective and/or unenforced. What we need is smarter gun control. But the people who cheapen these incidents by using them for their own means are clueless about the issue. They are just looking for a warm and fuzzy feeling.Exactly what guns laws that were not enforced that allowed this killer to get guns? And exactly who did not enforce them? This is your chance to present your case about gun laws not being enforced. Don't blow it.

[horses4courses]

Why would we need gun control? Obviously, it's better to just hope that everyone is in a good mood 24-7. :rolleyes:

Agreed.

Or, everyone should carry 24/7.
The fascists' utopia.

[Clocker]

Exactly what guns laws that were not enforced that allowed this killer to get guns? And exactly who did not enforce them? This is your chance to present your case about gun laws not being enforced. Don't blow it.

I made a couple of statements that I know to be true in general. I did not attempt to say anything about this killer, because I don't have any specific facts yet. To the contrary, Hillary and the White House and a lot of posters here prefer to start with conclusions and then come up with some facts to support their position.

Perhaps those leaping to the conclusion that this incident indicates a serious need for more gun control laws could let us know what laws would have prevented this.

[elysiantraveller]

Exactly what guns laws that were not enforced that allowed this killer to get guns? And exactly who did not enforce them? This is your chance to present your case about gun laws not being enforced. Don't blow it.

Two counties in the state of Michigan were current during their audit of concealed weapons permits. 2 out of 83.

[Inner Dirt]

Why would we need gun control? Obviously, it's better to just hope that everyone is in a good mood 24-7. :rolleyes:

When are people like you going to realize criminals and the mentally ill do not follow laws and regulations?

[horses4courses]

When are people like you going to realize criminals and the mentally ill do not follow laws and regulations?

That's true.
If guns weren't a dime a dozen, they might
actually have a hard time getting armed, too.

[Tom]

Hey, the guy was a victim. He left a 23 page manifesto/suicide note blaming just about everyone in the world except himself.



Oh, a liberal democrat, huh?

[reckless]

Why would we need gun control? Obviously, it's better to just hope that everyone is in a good mood 24-7. :rolleyes:

We don't need gun control because those patriots and citizens that own guns do not shoot and kill people randomly nor without cause. Being in a good mood isn't a requirement for the typical US citizen who owns guns to act in a responsible manner.

It is the violent murderers and criminals -- illegal aliens, drug lords, hip-hop entrepreneurs and those others that the lunatic liberal establishment prefer to coddle, protect and defend -- that are the problem.

[Clocker]

If guns weren't a dime a dozen, they might
actually have a hard time getting armed, too.

Put me down for a dollar's worth. :p

I'll defer to your apparent greater experience buying guns on the cheap. I have always had to go through the system and pay fair prices.

[Robert Goren]

Hey, the guy was a victim. He left a 23 page manifesto/suicide note blaming just about everyone in the world except himself.

He was gay and black and suffered racial discrimination, sexual harassment and bullying at work and elsewhere. He says that the stress has been building up and the racism of the Charleston church shooting finally put him over the top.

I can't wait for the spin on this from the #BlackLivesMatter folks. :rolleyes:You left out the Columbine high school shooter that he mentions he greatly admired.

[Robert Fischer]

We don't need gun control because those patriots and citizens that own guns do not shoot and kill people randomly nor without cause.

lol

[johnhannibalsmith]

At a minimum we ought to get a flag banned from somewhere.

[ReplayRandall]

At a minimum we ought to get a flag banned from somewhere.

Maybe that "rainbow flag"?

[Rookies]

We don't need gun control because those patriots and citizens that own guns do not shoot and kill people randomly nor without cause. Being in a good mood isn't a requirement for the typical US citizen who owns guns to act in a responsible manner.

It is the violent murderers and criminals -- illegal aliens, drug lords, hip-hop entrepreneurs and those others that the lunatic liberal establishment prefer to coddle, protect and defend -- that are the problem.

NO. The impossibly, simple availability of 400 Million hand guns alone, is the never ending problem.

* Islamist extremists or white fanatics can get them and use them to take out their hatred against America or any subset thereof;
* Black gang bangers can settle any score of a drug or personal nature;
* Those with "hurt" feelings of any race or culture can take out their perceived grievance against any alleged target, anytime, for any reason & anywhere- schools, preschools, churches, theatres, backdrops, work locations, none is exempt.

How can you possibly distinguish your "typical" U.S. citizen from any other ? These people are a potential, ticking time bomb, if they have access to a gun- and they do. Stuff pisses people off in life and for so many now, the twisted understanding that it can be immediately remedied at the end of a barrel, will spur on these grievance resolvers endlessly.

[woodtoo]

NO. The impossibly, simple availability of 400 Million hand guns alone, is the never ending problem.

* Islamist extremists or white fanatics can get them and use them to take out their hatred against America or any subset thereof;
* Black gang bangers can settle any score of a drug or personal nature;
* Those with "hurt" feelings of any race or culture can take out their perceived grievance against any alleged target, anytime, for any reason & anywhere- schools, preschools, churches, theatres, backdrops, work locations, none is exempt.

How can you possibly distinguish your "typical" U.S. citizen from any other ? These people are a potential, ticking time bomb, if they have access to a gun- and they do. Stuff pisses people off in life and for so many now, the twisted understanding that it can be immediately remedied at the end of a barrel, will spur on these grievance resolvers endlessly.
Aint that the truth, availability.
Maybe cut back gun production and a war on smuggling and illegal sales.

[horses4courses]

NO. The impossibly, simple availability of 400 Million hand guns alone, is the never ending problem.

That's the crux of the matter.

The average American citizen should not
have to resort to firearms for protection.

It has snowballed through the centuries into
where we are today. It's just how things are.
We're supposed to accept it, not change it.

Repeated tragedies like yesterday's killings
are regarded as just an unfortunate part of life.

Shake your head, pay your respects, and move on.

[Inner Dirt]

That's true.
If guns weren't a dime a dozen, they might
actually have a hard time getting armed, too.

That ship has sailed, there are 400 year old guns that are still functional. One thing the gun control crowd ignores is private gun sales. They are basically unregulated. It is up to the new owner to register the gun and the previous owner can legally sell or trade to anyone with a valid I.D. proving residency in the state where the transaction is made.

Never is there an argument like gun control where one side usually knows next to nothing about what the item they are arguing about. Laws are passed to appease the masses that wouldn't know the difference between a .177 pellet pistol or a 9mm S&W if it was pointed in their face. Laws governing clip size down to 7 rounds in many areas have been passed. There are You Tube videos showing quick handed marksman changing them
out in ONE SECOND a sausaged fingered person like myself can do one in 3 seconds and that includes pulling it out of a coat pocket.

The government is not going collect all the privately held guns. If I wanted
another gun I could go online to the VA Gun Trader, find one for sale locally,
hand the person cash, show my driver's license, then be out firing rounds
in my backyard within hours.

I guess the gun control crowd hasn't noticed that strict gun control laws
don't work (See the District of Columbia), for some reason criminals don't
follow them. Unfortunately the only thing that will actually work (Liberals won't like this) is giving the authorities the right to detain and evaluate
anyone showing signs of possible violent behavior. Posting "All Ginger kids must die" anywhere on the internet gets you a visit from the local police and a possible 72 hour evaluation in a mental facility.

I first fired a .22 caliber rifle when I was 7 years old, have owned guns for 35 years. The guns in the closet have shot nothing but paper targets, beverage cans, a water heater (had to drain the water out of an old one),
and a couple no longer functioning computer towers. They haven't spilled
any blood, not even from critters I have caught dining close to the garden.
If you pass more gun regulations it will be people like who obey them, not
the twice convicted ex felon cocaine smuggler who lives across town.

[horses4courses]

That ship has sailed

Exactly.

Now, stop harping on and on about the "ignorant" gun control crowd.
It's monotonous and redundant.

The gun control crowd exists because of tragedies like yesterday,
and the ones scattered through past years like a bad disease.

Not having owned, or fired, a gun before means nothing.
I don't have to shoot heroin in my arm to know it's wrong.

[Clocker]

The gun control crowd exists because of tragedies like yesterday,
and the ones scattered through past years like a bad disease.


And have yet to come up with an effective and enforceable solution.

[johnhannibalsmith]

...
I don't have to shoot heroin in my arm to know it's wrong.

Yet you seem to think that some magic law will fix it, which with your knowledge of heroin without use, should give you some insight into why prattling on and on with the same speech about how heroin is awful and if we'd all just pass some laws it would be fixed sounds goofy to even someone like me that has absolutely zero use or love for guns.

[reckless]

NO. The impossibly, simple availability of 400 Million hand guns alone, is the never ending problem.

* Islamist extremists or white fanatics can get them and use them to take out their hatred against America or any subset thereof;
* Black gang bangers can settle any score of a drug or personal nature;
* Those with "hurt" feelings of any race or culture can take out their perceived grievance against any alleged target, anytime, for any reason & anywhere- schools, preschools, churches, theatres, backdrops, work locations, none is exempt.

How can you possibly distinguish your "typical" U.S. citizen from any other ? These people are a potential, ticking time bomb, if they have access to a gun- and they do. Stuff pisses people off in life and for so many now, the twisted understanding that it can be immediately remedied at the end of a barrel, will spur on these grievance resolvers endlessly.

If you allow gun control and the confiscation of guns owned by law biding US citizens by the Federal Government the s-bags of the world will still keep their guns and weapons. Do you think for one moment if Obama or a President Hillary Clinton demands all our guns that the crooks will surrender theirs too? :lol: :lol: :lol:

So, I'll repeat, the only guns out there that are dangerous to society are those guns owned by criminals, murderers, gang bangers, thugs, disjointed gay men, illegal aliens, angry black men and Islamic terrorists -- aka the Democrat Party base.

The Second Amendment that guarantees the right to bear arms is there to protect everyday law biding citizens against a totalitarian, all-powerful US Federal Government, such as the one we now have.

[Tom]

Rookies says we have 400 million guns out there, but of those 400 million, only a very small percent are of any danger by being owned by criminal or mentally insane people.

So what i s the plan by the left to get THOSE few guns out of the hands of the dangerous people?

[Inner Dirt]

Exactly.

Now, stop harping on and on about the "ignorant" gun control crowd.
It's monotonous and redundant.

The gun control crowd exists because of tragedies like yesterday,
and the ones scattered through past years like a bad disease.

Not having owned, or fired, a gun before means nothing.
I don't have to shoot heroin in my arm to know it's wrong.

Where did I use the word ignorant? That is the favorite word of liberals when they talk down to people who don't agree with them. I do not use it.

A person who has fired and owned guns will be a lot more knowledgeable
on what gun laws can have an effect than someone who has never fired or owned a gun. Just like a heroin addict would know more about what could
make it harder for him to acquire and use the drug than someone who has
never bought or used.

As for useless gun laws we have areas that have lowered the maximum clip capacity from 10 to 7 and think that is a good thing. For the record I can squeeze off 7 rounds in 1.25 seconds and change a clip in 3, a person with
quick hands can change a clip in one second.

The people screaming for the ban on so called "assault rifles" because of their involvement in mass shooting also makes no sense.

Like inside a theater, in a small confined crowded space if you are trying
to kill and maim as many as possible a rifle is a poor choice of weapon.
They are hard to conceal and maneuver. Pistol would by far be the best weapon of choice. The distance accuracy and long range killing power of
a rifle round isn't needed at 30 yards or less. Why these close range
mass shooters are using rifles makes no sense. You could conceal a half dozen loaded pistols on your person with ease, you cannot conceal one rifle.

[Clocker]

Where did I use the word ignorant? That is the favorite word of liberals when they talk down to people who don't agree with them. I do not use it.

A person who has fired and owned guns will be a lot more knowledgeable
on what gun laws can have an effect than someone who has never fired or owned a gun.

The White House Ministry of Truth, Josh Earnest presiding, used the violence as evidence for "common sense" gun laws. No details were forthcoming, but weren't really needed for those familiar with the Narrative. The "common sense" gun laws Obama has been pushing for some years now are a ban on "assault weapons", limits on magazine size, and background checks on private sales.

Passage and strict enforcement of such laws would have had zero effect on the shooter in this incident. He did not use an "assault weapon", reports are that he fired 8 shots, well within any proposed limit, and he purchased the weapon from a dealer after passing a background check.

The first two proposals are purely cosmetic, based on the perceptions of people with no idea of how weapons operate, but offended by their appearance. The third proposal has serious potential to infringe on basic rights, in addition to being unenforceable.

[Inner Dirt]

The White House Ministry of Truth, Josh Earnest presiding, used the violence as evidence for "common sense" gun laws. No details were forthcoming, but weren't really needed for those familiar with the Narrative. The "common sense" gun laws Obama has been pushing for some years now are a ban on "assault weapons", limits on magazine size, and background checks on private sales.

Passage and strict enforcement of such laws would have had zero effect on the shooter in this incident. He did not use an "assault weapon", reports are that he fired 8 shots, well within any proposed limit, and he purchased the weapon from a dealer after passing a background check.

The first two proposals are purely cosmetic, based on the perceptions of people with no idea of how weapons operate, but offended by their appearance. The third proposal has serious potential to infringe on basic rights, in addition to being unenforceable.

Plus cost taxpayers huge amounts of money to regulate, on top of creating
more black market gun sales. I privately sold two guns in the last couple years, if I had to give someone a background check and wait, or that person offered me 4x asking price to sell it now, what would I do?
I could sell that .357 S&W for $2k in cash and tell the authorities it was stolen and I didn't know where it was.

[Steve 'StatMan']

From what I saw from the video, he creeped up close enough to them that he could have stabbed at least one if not all 3 with a knife, certainly could have sliced them all up with a ninja sword. A gun wasn't even needed in this case - just made it a little easier on the killer.

[Clocker]

NO. The impossibly, simple availability of 400 Million hand guns alone, is the never ending problem.

You provide no source for your number so I am not going to bother finding the source for mine. Last data I saw estimated 300 million guns in the US, and about a third of those are hand guns.

I know, that is still about 100 million too many for you.


How can you possibly distinguish your "typical" U.S. citizen from any other ?

We can't. We trust them until there is evidence to the contrary. It's called freedom and human rights. It's the way we live and the way we want it.

Contrary to the wailing and moaning and gnashing of teeth by the gun grabbers, the lack of Congressional action on stricter gun controls is not due to selling out to the NRA and gun merchants. It is because we the people want it that way. The NRA has two guns in the fight, money and votes. The latter is the big gun. Congress isn't afraid of the NRA, it is afraid of the people that vote them into office and pay their salaries.

One famous case in point. Most political observers agree that Al Gore would have been elected president in 2000 if he had carried his home state of Tennessee. And he would have carried that state were it not for his gun control policies.

[boxcar]

Agreed.

Or, everyone should carry 24/7.
The fascists' utopia.

That'll do it. the M.A.D. policy during the cold war worked, didn't it?

Only the hopelessly naive will believe for a nanosecond that criminals won't find a way to arm themselves in the gunless utopia you envision.

[Clocker]

Only the hopelessly naive will believe for a nanosecond that criminals won't find a way to arm themselves in the gunless utopia you envision.

The 2nd Amendment guarantees the right to bear arms. The US courts have ruled that no one has a right to the expectation of protection by law enforcement.

[FantasticDan]

As usual, the nightly news is leading with the whole "mind of a monster" thing. Celebritizing a mad man.

Oh, but we all find it so compelling, right?

F that shit.

http://peterdaou.com/2015/06/time-for-the-media-to-censor-the-names-of-fame-seeking-mass-killers/

[johnhannibalsmith]

As usual, the nightly news is leading with ...

Over 10,000 gun murders a year and we can't find time to cherry pick which ones matter. If they weren't directing the traffic in our heads, who would? We should have about 20 posts or threads or stories a day I guess if you want to be conservative. All the arguing over whether this cherry picked example would have or would not have been prevented if then this if or that law and the other hypothetical... 10,000 of them... and I'm supposed to dance because this one was newsworthy for some reason. They ought to do a lead story on the mind of people that seem to only care about murders when the story is deemed sufficiently sensational. Seems like the same crowd.

[fast4522]

Another life long liberal gone insane and kills someone, gun murders are no way 10K because it is more like a handful. The 10K number has a very high percentage of justified killing of people who died as a result of someone defending themselves and family. Most times the victim is not the one who dies.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Unless the word homicide has gotten rather inclusive, I'll go with reality.

[fast4522]

Unless the word homicide has gotten rather inclusive, I'll go with reality.

Unless the truth is said, no one cares to listen. In order to meet in the middle you have to budge from the far left and discuss things constructively.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Right, I'll work on moving away from the far left. Much to the chagrin of my comrades mostpost and company, I'm sure. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Clocker]

In order to meet in the middle you have to budge from the far left and discuss things constructively.

I think you are shooting blanks in that volley. :D

[Tom]

From what I saw from the video, he creeped up close enough to them that he could have stabbed at least one if not all 3 with a knife, certainly could have sliced them all up with a ninja sword. A gun wasn't even needed in this case - just made it a little easier on the killer.

OJ didn't need no steenking gun!

A gun wasn't even needed in this case - just made it a little easier on the killer. If some nut were going to oft me, I would prefer he used a gun.

[Rookies]

Another life long liberal gone insane and kills someone, gun murders are no way 10K because it is more like a handful. The 10K number has a very high percentage of justified killing of people who died as a result of someone defending themselves and family. Most times the victim is not the one who dies.

Wow- Tin Foil Hat alert for the above!

When Ralph was here, he chided me on my expression of 'rare' occurrences of self defence. No, it isn't rare, but it comprises 1% of Gun homicides in the U.S., up against, for example, the horrifying 0.75% of family members shooting family members to death, accidentally! (Presumably, these are the sane, gun owners! :rolleyes: )

For argument sake, because I wave extrapolated from 2009 numbers and the rush to purchase during the Obama years, let me revise my number for Reckless
et al and call it in the middle, as 350 Million. Again- America has THREE
HUNDRED AND FIFTY MILLION guns, in the possession of its citizenry!

The latest anti gun ad, springing from this recent horror is this:

"Getting shot
- at work
- at school
- at the movies
Isn’t something people in other developed countries worry about."

No, WE don't.

It is INSANITY! And to answer Tom, that water is now on Mars. Over 40 years ago, the Rubicon was crossed, when any national - never local, strategy to prohibit ownership (except for a few classes of persons or in certain restricted situations (target shooting clubs), is loooooooong gone.

[Tom]

Golden opportunity for all you gun-hating libs out there.
Move to Canada. Nowhere near as many guns up there, and forget the border, just run over it, no immigration laws apply, right?

And, to sweeten the pot, they got some kind of rubicon up there (Polar Unicorn?) and they get their water from Mars! All it costs you is your freedom.
You'll should like that part!

[Clocker]

Golden opportunity for all you gun-hating libs out there.
Move to Canada. Nowhere near as many guns up there

And then you can claim the moral high ground and scold the primitive, ignorant barbarians in the US as they slaughter each other with their endless stockpile of weapons of mass destruction.

[Inner Dirt]

Homicide rates have steadily declined in the country since people were shooting muskets 400 years ago. Even as technology gave guns the potential to do more destruction the downward trend continues. The homicide rate was half in 2013 that it was in 1830 when all weapons were single shot.

If the 350 million gun estimate in the USA is correct dividing them by the number of homicides ONE out of every 31,227 guns is used to commit murder.

We don't need more gun control we need more homicidal maniac control. We need to start violating the civil rights of people who show signs of being dangerous, not responsible gun owners. A lot of sex crimes and murders are committed by guys with long rap sheets that shouldn't have been allowed to breathe free air anyway.

[johnhannibalsmith]

... America has THREE
HUNDRED AND FIFTY MILLION guns, in the possession of its citizenry!

...

Why do you harp on the volume of guns constantly as though that is the problem?

Do you honestly believe that if there were zero guns that this rather large population of murderers would simply turn to priesthood or something?

Isn't there maybe, just maybe, a more critical problem here to address that won't be by constantly harping on the volume of guns and then reducing them as some sort of solution? Factor in all of that attempteds and other major violent felonies that could easily have wound up as homicides and what exactly are you solving? We still have tens of thousands or more murderers out there. What is your move then? Pat yourself on the back for getting rid of a whole bunch of guns? We've started to figure out this mentality doesn't work with the crowd that the same anti-gun crowd tends to champion - the addict - so why is this approach of attempting to use legislation to reduce the instrument of choice going to work this time in this scenario? Because it has in Canada? It's naive at best but I guess a whole lot easier than figuring how to make people less inclined to become junkies or murderers or whatever.

[Robert Goren]

The 2nd Amendment guarantees the right to bear arms. The US courts have ruled that no one has a right to the expectation of protection by law enforcement. Just shows how screwed up the courts are.

[Robert Goren]

As is the case recently, the anti-gun control crowd is all over TV saying that we need to do more mental issues and we don't need more gun laws. Of course they leave out the part about how much it will cost. They like to leave the impression that it can be done on the cheap. It can't. We are talking at several hundred billion dollars, maybe a trillion if it is going to be done well enough to make a difference. Besides the costs, if you think your rights are being trounced on by gun laws, wait until they start forcing people to get treatment for mental health issues. Of course the anti-gun law crowd has no intention of doing anything on mental health. They are just trying to deflect the conversation away from new gun laws just as clocker tried to do with his rant about the current gun laws not being enforced. The anti-gun control crowd think what happened as perfectly acceptable and they are willing do or say anything to keep new gun laws off the books. They deal in everything from misdirection to half truths, in some cases, down right lies.

[Clocker]

As is the case recently, the anti-gun control crowd is all over TV saying that we need to do more mental issues and we don't need more gun laws. Of course they leave out the part about how much it will cost. They like to leave the impression that it can be done on the cheap.


They are just trying to deflect the conversation away from new gun laws just as clocker tried to do with his rant about the current gun laws not being enforced.

A very big issue here is simple and costs virtually nothing to fix. A major area of gun control laws not being enforced is that of putting people with sufficiently serious mental health issues in the background check data base.

Mental health professionals, often supported by politically correct politicians, are not complying with the laws. That would have not been relevant in this particular incident, but it is a big problem.

Another problem is the non-enforcement of gun laws in general. Chicago, notorious for gun violence, is also well known for dropping gun possession charges in exchange for a guilty plea to a lesser offense. Another glaring example of politics in action. And the beat goes on.

Why pass more laws when those are not being enforced?

[Clocker]

Just shows how screwed up the courts are.

Both of those holdings are perfectly reasonable. No right to the expectation of protection simply says that you can't sue the government for incompetence or dereliction of duty for not protecting you before the fact from a crime committed against you.

[Tom]

Just shows how screwed up the courts are.

Explain how that would work, since you seem to believe it is possible?

[Clocker]

Explain how that would work, since you seem to believe it is possible?

There is a trade off between freedom and security. A guarantee of security from crime would come at the cost of a police state. Some people, even today, apparently would prefer that.

The Thought Police know who those people are. :eek:

[Inner Dirt]

As is the case recently, the anti-gun control crowd is all over TV saying that we need to do more mental issues and we don't need more gun laws. Of course they leave out the part about how much it will cost. They like to leave the impression that it can be done on the cheap. It can't. We are talking at several hundred billion dollars, maybe a trillion if it is going to be done well enough to make a difference. Besides the costs, if you think your rights are being trounced on by gun laws, wait until they start forcing people to get treatment for mental health issues. Of course the anti-gun law crowd has no intention of doing anything on mental health. They are just trying to deflect the conversation away from new gun laws just as clocker tried to do with his rant about the current gun laws not being enforced. The anti-gun control crowd think what happened as perfectly acceptable and they are willing do or say anything to keep new gun laws off the books. They deal in everything from misdirection to half truths, in some cases, down right lies.

How much money will it cost to round up a good portion of those 350 million
guns you despise? As for gun laws, do me a favor, send me a link to how
many criminals and mental patients read up on them and follow them.

How much money is spent enforcing, prosecuting and incarcerating people
for small time drug possession and sales? Get more liberal with drug laws,
drunks have done way more damage across the board than people on drugs. I wouldn't buy marijuana and smoke it (I tried it in my early 20's)
if it was dirt cheap at the local super market, my girlfriend's 18 year old son is going to smoke it no matter what. Raise your hand if you once tried pot and aren't a homeless heroin addict. My hand is up! Alcohol is the biggest gateway drug their is. Raise your hand if you got drunk and did something stupid that you would not have done sober, I will raise my hand again. Use the money spent on 6 ATF agents raiding the house of a 16 year old High School student pot dealer and the follow up to investigate some one who may have dangerous mental health issues.

[Robert Goren]

A very big issue here is simple and costs virtually nothing to fix. A major area of gun control laws not being enforced is that of putting people with sufficiently serious mental health issues in the background check data base.

Mental health professionals, often supported by politically correct politicians, are not complying with the laws. That would have not been relevant in this particular incident, but it is a big problem.

Another problem is the non-enforcement of gun laws in general. Chicago, notorious for gun violence, is also well known for dropping gun possession charges in exchange for a guilty plea to a lesser offense. Another glaring example of politics in action. And the beat goes on.

Why pass more laws when those are not being enforced?none of which would have stopped this shooter from getting a gun. From what I have gathered he had no history of treatment for mental health issues. No doubt he was one angry man, but was he anymore angry than several conservative posters here? Are you willing to force mental treatment on them as well?
It is not only mental health officials who are slow in reporting to the data base. It is police forces as well. An arrest in a bar fight should get a person on the list, but often doesn't. Especially in rural America where the cops know everybody. Larger police forces are often months behind in their paper work. What do they about somebody who had the criminal charges dropped, but was still acting poorly, say like making terroristic threats. They are seldom prosecuted even if an officer heard them being made. The church shooter should have made the list, but thanks to a police screw up didn't.

[Robert Goren]

How much money will it cost to round up a good portion of those 350 million
guns you despise? As for gun laws, do me a favor, send me a link to how
many criminals and mental patients read up on them and follow them.

How much money is spent enforcing, prosecuting and incarcerating people
for small time drug possession and sales? Get more liberal with drug laws,
drunks have done way more damage across the board than people on drugs. I wouldn't buy marijuana and smoke it (I tried it in my early 20's)
if it was dirt cheap at the local super market, my girlfriend's 18 year old son is going to smoke it no matter what. Raise your hand if you once tried pot and aren't a homeless heroin addict. My hand is up! Alcohol is the biggest gateway drug their is. Raise your hand if you got drunk and did something stupid that you would not have done sober, I will raise my hand again. Use the money spent on 6 ATF agents raiding the house of a 16 year old High School student pot dealer and the follow up to investigate some one who may have dangerous mental health issues.How many times has 6 ATF raided the house of a 16 year old pot dealer? A Meth dealer maybe? A few cases , please. For the record I support legalizing pot. It is not the liberals that are stopping the legalization. It is the hard right wing republicans like Nebraska governor Pete Rickets.

[Robert Goren]

There is a trade off between freedom and security. A guarantee of security from crime would come at the cost of a police state. Some people, even today, apparently would prefer that.

The Thought Police know who those people are. :eek:The thought police? Would that be the people who picket churches because an abortion doctor happens to belong to it?

[Clocker]

none of which would have stopped this shooter from getting a gun. From what I have gathered he had no history of treatment for mental health issues.

Which I have said several times. That is exactly the point I and others have been trying to make in this thread. The libs are milking this incident for all the sob-story value they can get out of it to "prove" the need for more gun controls. We need more laws so that this never happens again.

None of the proposed new and improved gun control laws that the libs are demanding would have stopped this guy. The time and effort spent trying to pass new laws would be better spent enforcing the existing laws. But this guy would likely have slipped through all of them.

I'm guessing the next lib argument after that is that shows that the best solution is to eliminate general gun ownership. We already tried that for other social evils. It's called prohibition. We all know how that movie ends.

[Tom]

The thought police? Would that be the people who picket churches because an abortion doctor happens to belong to it?


A stupid comment that has nothing to with this thread, or even with itself, for that matter.

Like a parrot screaming out phrases it has memorized.

Whatever happened to at least trying to be relevant to the topic? :lol:

[Valuist]

No doubt he was one angry man, but was he anymore angry than several conservative posters here? Are you willing to force mental treatment on them as well?


Yeah, I'd say he was just a bit more angry. I'd have to guess the 23 page manifesto is a bit of a tipoff.......

[fast4522]

That's the crux of the matter.

The average American citizen should not
have to resort to firearms for protection.

It has snowballed through the centuries into
where we are today. It's just how things are.
We're supposed to accept it, not change it.

Repeated tragedies like yesterday's killings
are regarded as just an unfortunate part of life.

Shake your head, pay your respects, and move on.

Just to note: Virginia is an open carry state, permit not required to carry handgun openly.

[Inner Dirt]

Maybe this is falling on deaf ears. Please send me a link that shows the gang members, criminals, and the mental patients who are keeping up on their local gun laws and following them.

[PaceAdvantage]

Agreed.

Or, everyone should carry 24/7.
The fascists' utopia.fascists... :lol:

Hey, at least you have your man this time...Bernie...Bernie...Bernie... :lol:

[PaceAdvantage]

NO. The impossibly, simple availability of 400 Million hand guns alone, is the never ending problem.

* Islamist extremists or white fanatics can get them and use them to take out their hatred against America or any subset thereof;
* Black gang bangers can settle any score of a drug or personal nature;
* Those with "hurt" feelings of any race or culture can take out their perceived grievance against any alleged target, anytime, for any reason & anywhere- schools, preschools, churches, theatres, backdrops, work locations, none is exempt.

How can you possibly distinguish your "typical" U.S. citizen from any other ? These people are a potential, ticking time bomb, if they have access to a gun- and they do. Stuff pisses people off in life and for so many now, the twisted understanding that it can be immediately remedied at the end of a barrel, will spur on these grievance resolvers endlessly.I love it when Canadian liberals look down their noses at America... :lol:

[PaceAdvantage]

That's the crux of the matter.

The average American citizen should not
have to resort to firearms for protection.

It has snowballed through the centuries into
where we are today. It's just how things are.
We're supposed to accept it, not change it.

Repeated tragedies like yesterday's killings
are regarded as just an unfortunate part of life.

Shake your head, pay your respects, and move on.What should they do for protection? Rely on the cops to show up AFTER they've been robbed, raped, assaulted or murdered?

Lot of good that will do.

[PaceAdvantage]

Wow- Tin Foil Hat alert for the above!

When Ralph was here, he chided me on my expression of 'rare' occurrences of self defence. No, it isn't rare, but it comprises 1% of Gun homicides in the U.S., up against, for example, the horrifying 0.75% of family members shooting family members to death, accidentally! (Presumably, these are the sane, gun owners! :rolleyes: )

For argument sake, because I wave extrapolated from 2009 numbers and the rush to purchase during the Obama years, let me revise my number for Reckless
et al and call it in the middle, as 350 Million. Again- America has THREE
HUNDRED AND FIFTY MILLION guns, in the possession of its citizenry!

The latest anti gun ad, springing from this recent horror is this:

"Getting shot
- at work
- at school
- at the movies
Isn’t something people in other developed countries worry about."

No, WE don't.

It is INSANITY! And to answer Tom, that water is now on Mars. Over 40 years ago, the Rubicon was crossed, when any national - never local, strategy to prohibit ownership (except for a few classes of persons or in certain restricted situations (target shooting clubs), is loooooooong gone.I don't worry about getting shot at work, school, the movies or anywhere else, and I don't know anyone else who does.

Where do you come up with this stuff?

[hcap]

"The States With The Most Gun Laws See The Fewest Gun-Related Deaths". And other related topics

http://www.nationaljournal.com/domesticpolicy/gun-laws-deaths-by-state-20150828


Charts on
1-State gun laws
2-Concealed Carry
3-Background checks
4-"Stand your ground"

All support reigning in gun chaos.

[Robert Goren]

Yeah, I'd say he was just a bit more angry. I'd have to guess the 23 page manifesto is a bit of a tipoff.......I love reading about manifestos left by killers. Note I use the term "reading about" because they are always taken down long before the public learns they exist. All we have is words of some reporter who started searching it before the name of the killer is even made public as to what is actually in them. When racists and white separatists go a spree, they almost always leave a manifesto, but we never get to see it. I suspect the reason is that a lot of what is them is a lot of conservative movement preach and they are trying to protect that movement from being associated with the killer crazies. I can see no other reason why these manifesto are pulled. When a left wing killer has manifesto it is all over the internet. You will no problem finding the Unabomber's manifesto on the net, but try find the manifesto of the white separatist couple who killed two Las Vegas police officers and two bystanders after taking part in rally in support of the Nevada rancher's fight over rent free grazing land a couple years ago. Or the one of the crazy who tried to ram a small plane into an IRS office in Texas at roughly the same time.

[Clocker]

When racists and white separatists go a spree, they almost always leave a manifesto, but we never get to see it. I suspect the reason is that a lot of what is them is a lot of conservative movement preach and they are trying to protect that movement from being associated with the killer crazies. I can see no other reason why these manifesto are pulled.

Must be true. The killer was once reprimanded by his station for wearing an Obama sticker while reporting on the air, so he is obviously a right wing wacko. And the alleged manifesto was faxed to those conservative crazies at ABC News, who have still not released the full text. No doubt trying to cover up the Tea Party connections.

Most of the manifestos I have read about were on the killer's web site, and the account was taken down by the ISP or by the government to prevent inciting other crazies.

[Tom]

Monsters under your bed, Bobby? :rolleyes:

[tucker6]

Monsters under your bed, Bobby? :rolleyes:
I wonder what price he pays for buying tin foil in bulk?

[Clocker]

An editorial in the NY Times by the chairman of psychiatry at Columbia University Medical Center of the New York-Presbyterian Hospital (how's that for liberal credentials) discusses mass violence and "our country’s failed mental health care system".



In many instances mentally disturbed people lack awareness of their illness, and are unwilling to accept treatment. Almost every mentally ill perpetrator of mass violence had been symptomatic and untreated for lengthy periods of time before their crime, because they (or their families) did not seek treatment or they refused it.

Statutory mechanisms like assisted outpatient treatment have been enacted in 45 states. They enable doctors to obtain a court order that requires severely mentally ill patients who meet certain legal criteria — if they are unable to care for themselves or are unwilling to take medication — to adhere to treatment. However, these legal mechanisms are controversial and infrequently used despite their effectiveness in reducing violent incidents and hospital readmissions.

We are reluctant to infringe on people’s civil rights by forcing them to accept treatment, even though we do just that for communicable infectious diseases such as tuberculosis and various sexually transmitted diseases. But we must start using this law to treat patients in need, over their objections if necessary. This strategy would apply to a small number of people who have psychotic disorders, and known risk factors for violence, such as drug abuse and a history of violence.

The good news is that these strategies have proved highly effective and really work. They simply have not been widely applied.



http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/29/opinion/how-to-halt-the-violence-treat-mental-illness.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

[Hoofless_Wonder]

"The States With The Most Gun Laws See The Fewest Gun-Related Deaths". And other related topics

http://www.nationaljournal.com/domesticpolicy/gun-laws-deaths-by-state-20150828


Charts on
1-State gun laws
2-Concealed Carry
3-Background checks
4-"Stand your ground"

All support reigning in gun chaos.

As usual, the gun control crowd wants to distort the stats in their favor.

"Gun-Related" deaths are lower in states with strict gun control laws simply due to the fewer guns per capita, 'cause it's harder to get guns and firearm ownership isn't as popular. So what? Gun related deaths include accidents and suicides, which is outside the realm of "gun chaos".

Let's talk about the cities with the most restrictive gun control laws (DC and Chicago), and how those laws have utterly failed to stem the tide of violence. Let's talk about the failure of the mental health system to properly regulate doctors in prescribing dangerous drugs that alter brain chemistry, and then failing to monitor their patients. Let's talk about the millions of violent acts prevented each year because the intended victim did have a firearm for protection. Let's talk about when a white perp takes out black victims, it's a problem of "white racism", but when a black perp takes out white victims, it's a problem with guns.

The only chaos on this topic is the lack of critical thinking of those on the pro-control side of the issue.

[Inner Dirt]

What is wrong with people? I am sorry the Parker family lost their young daughter but the father seems to be blaming gun rights advocates, not the loser nut job who murdered her. He keeps saying "They", messed with the wrong people. How are all those gun laws in Chicago and DC doing? I haven't checked lately.

[woodtoo]

As usual, the gun control crowd wants to distort the stats in their favor.


Let's talk about when a white perp takes out black victims, it's a problem of "white racism", but when a black perp takes out white victims, it's a problem with guns.

The only chaos on this topic is the lack of critical thinking of those on the pro-control side of the issue.


Or when a black perp takes out a black victim, its swept under the rug, so to speak. The media wont talk about it, the community wont talk about it.
The President surely wont talk about it, the BLM crowd don't care about it.
If I bring it up I may be a racist.
Whats the percentage of black on black murder compared to all others
combined? 70 % 80 % 90 %
That gentlemen, is the elephant in the room.

[horses4courses]

What should they do for protection? Rely on the cops to show up AFTER they've been robbed, raped, assaulted or murdered?

Lot of good that will do.

I can't blame anyone for protecting their family and property.
The sad part is that this is where we find ourselves.

[Clocker]

The sad part is that this is where we find ourselves.

It is the natural state of life. We live in a much less violent society than has existed throughout most of human history.

[woodtoo]

Sheriff David Clark charges President Obama with "starting war on Police"
And he was very pissed...on FOX

[Clocker]

Sheriff David Clark charges President Obama with "starting war on Police"
And he was very pissed...on FOX

Welcome to the post-racial world of Obama.

The Texas podcast that called for the lynching of white people and the killing of cops appears to have been taken down from their page. While links to the program, “Sunshines F**king Opinion Online Radio” can still be found, the program’s page is no longer there. The podcast called for people to kill cops just days prior to the execution of a Harris County sheriff’s deputy.

The Texas-based radio show’s guests called for lynching white people and taking pictures of them hanging in trees, according to a Breitbart Texas report on Friday. Another caller spoke of the need for blacks to kill cops to “turn the tide.”



http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2015/08/30/texas-podcast-that-called-for-killing-cops-goes-missing-after-execution/

[johnhannibalsmith]

Sheriff David Clark charges President Obama with "starting war on Police"
And he was very pissed...on FOX

Well we were sick of all the blame Bush for everything stuff.

[Robert Goren]

Must be true. The killer was once reprimanded by his station for wearing an Obama sticker while reporting on the air, so he is obviously a right wing wacko. And the alleged manifesto was faxed to those conservative crazies at ABC News, who have still not released the full text. No doubt trying to cover up the Tea Party connections.

Most of the manifestos I have read about were on the killer's web site, and the account was taken down by the ISP or by the government to prevent inciting other crazies.This wacko happen to support Obama. As wackos go these days, he is in a very small minority. I will give you this, as soon as Obama became president, the right wing wackos started coming out the woodwork in droves. So I guess he is responsible for them too. :rolleyes: The whole survivalist/militia movement that started under Clinton and died down under Bush is back in full force under Obama. Nobody knows how many of those crazies are out there. Nobody knows dangerous they are either. Are they just a bunch of guys who like to play soldier without really having to be one? or are they what their rhetoric says they are, a real threat to some government employee do their job with whom they have a beef with?

[Tom]

This wacko happen to support Obama.

Not all wacko's support Obama.
But all Obama supporters are wackos.

And what makes you thing the militia movement died down under Bush?

[Robert Goren]

Not all wacko's support Obama.
But all Obama supporters are wackos.

And what makes you thing the militia movement died down under Bush?I was alive during when he was president and I actually remember all of it, unlike some here who have manage to wipe any memory of 2008 from their heads.

[PaceAdvantage]

This wacko happen to support Obama. As wackos go these days, he is in a very small minority.I see you haven't stepped foot in New York City recently...

You have a very small mind...do you realize that? You actually think there are more wackos who don't support Obama as opposed to those who do support him... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Funny stuff Robert.

[Tom]

I was alive during when he was president and I actually remember all of it, unlike some here who have manage to wipe any memory of 2008 from their heads.

You remember what, exactly?

[Robert Fischer]

A lot of people are losing and powerless. It's not new, it's just part of the human condition and the natural way of power. There's like 8 billion people, and a quite a few will not find success or social inclusion(not the horse :)) Some wacko loses his job and his girlfriend or is socially isolated, and some of these weak-minded people become suicidal and hateful. Some want one last temper-tantrum before they blow their brains out. Doesn't matter if he votes for the Clinton family or the Bush family. Doesn't matter what god he prays to. Doesn't matter what paperwork or certificates he has.

There's no 'cure'.

There's some good ideas in theory, like being slightly more aware and helpful to our family/friends/neighbors/co-workers. Who knows if such an effort could have any effect or even be practical?...

[elysiantraveller]

I was alive during when he was president and I actually remember all of it, unlike some here who have manage to wipe any memory of 2008 from their heads.

The Bush Presidency, notably the Patriot Act, enlarged the ranks of survivalist/militia groups my friend.

[Robert Goren]

The Bush Presidency, notably the Patriot Act, enlarged the ranks of survivalist/militia groups my friend. Maybe, but not in this part of country. When Obama became president they sprout up like weeds. They all claim it fear of the Federal government, but I think they are scared of Blacks being in power. As one of them once said to me." Blacks don't want to be equal, they want to get even". That pretty well summarizes the feeling of them around here.

[Robert Fischer]

We've got 40,000+ suicides a year and we've got 15,000 homicides. If you watched the programming, you would swear those numbers were reversed :D.


One of these wackos goes to the doctor, doc tells him 3 reasons he's crazy and prescribes a few of the best selling drugs...
After he shoots some people who talked during the movie, the same doc testifies at trial that he's sane.

[Tom]

4 cops shot in 9 days, yet not a peep from the left about those.

[Clocker]

4 cops shot in 9 days, yet not a peep from the left about those.

A white shoots a black, it is racism. A black shoots a white, it is a gun problem.

[Inner Dirt]

We've got 40,000+ suicides a year and we've got 15,000 homicides. If you watched the programming, you would swear those numbers were reversed :D.


One of these wackos goes to the doctor, doc tells him 3 reasons he's crazy and prescribes a few of the best selling drugs...
After he shoots some people who talked during the movie, the same doc testifies at trial that he's sane.

A lot of the anti gun crowd doesn't like to split those numbers apart. They want to act like any death by firearm would not be a death if there were
no guns. Obviously almost 100% of suicides by gun would have happened by other means if there were no guns.

[horses4courses]

4 cops shot in 9 days, yet not a peep from the left about those.

More sick happenings due to guns being in the wrong hands.

We lost a deputy here locally in Carson City a couple of weeks back.
He was responding to a domestic violence call.
Leaves behind a wife and four young kids.

[Inner Dirt]

A white shoots a black, it is racism. A black shoots a white, it is a gun problem.

What shocked me is that came from the father of the dead female reporter.

[classhandicapper]

4 cops shot in 9 days, yet not a peep from the left about those.


The left is so mentally twisted it can't even figure out who the good guys are.

We obviously need to ensure that the police are trained and act properly, but we don't need deranged left wingers leading the effort. It should come from the right so we at least have emotionally healthy people with functioning brains deciding how to do it.