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Flysofree
08-26-2015, 09:05 AM
Say I don't do the upgrade to Windows 10 (ever). In 4 years Microsoft stops support for Windows 7. If I keep a couple of anti virus programs running plus a firewall would I still be protected when accessing the internet? Or in a high risk because of not upgrading to W10 with their patches or whatever updates or called?

Augenj
08-26-2015, 09:46 AM
Say I don't do the upgrade to Windows 10 (ever). In 4 years Microsoft stops support for Windows 7. If I keep a couple of anti virus programs running plus a firewall would I still be protected when accessing the internet? Or in a high risk because of not upgrading to W10 with their patches or whatever updates or called?
"If" Microsoft cuts off support of W7 in 4 years, then your W7 system will not receive their patches, security and otherwise. The "otherwise" may not be a big deal but the security patches might be over time. You could always disconnect from the Internet if you have applications that don't require it. All of this may become moot if Microsoft has the same issue with W7 as they had with phasing out XP, hence the "If" at the beginning.

Ocala Mike
08-26-2015, 02:25 PM
I'm still running XP; everything a little slower, and sometimes I have to switch between browsers, but I'm still viable. How long do I have, doctor?

Flysofree
08-26-2015, 03:20 PM
I'm still running XP; everything a little slower, and sometimes I have to switch between browsers, but I'm still viable. How long do I have, doctor?

My guess, but it's the reason I asked, is that if you are running a good A/V plus have a good firewall....stay away from questionable website (porn type things) you should be safe. I don't understand why it's slower, unless you have some malware or some setting is causing... I admit to knowing little about computer safety.

Ocala Mike
08-26-2015, 06:27 PM
Yeah, that's my take on it too. The slowdown probably more a function of available memory than the OS.

Tom
08-26-2015, 10:22 PM
Yeah, that's my take on it too. The slowdown probably more a function of available memory than the OS.

That is my problem on XP.
I have a W7 used machine, but still in the box.
Maybe this weekend.

I would suggest anyone going to W10 to carefully read the terms of use.


"We will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary to protect our customers or enforce the terms governing the use of the services."


http://www.techrepublic.com/article/windows-10-violates-your-privacy-by-default-heres-how-you-can-protect-yourself/

_______
08-27-2015, 12:01 AM
That is my problem on XP.
I have a W7 used machine, but still in the box.
Maybe this weekend.

I would suggest anyone going to W10 to carefully read the terms of use.





http://www.techrepublic.com/article/windows-10-violates-your-privacy-by-default-heres-how-you-can-protect-yourself/

Thanks for the link, Tom. I haven't installed W10 but bookmarked this for the day I do.

Good stuff.

Flysofree
08-27-2015, 08:29 AM
Thanks for the link, Tom. I haven't installed W10 but bookmarked this for the day I do.

Good stuff.

Tom and I don't always agree, but he does post some very helpful information and this is one. Thanks Tom! For me, after reading on the Microsoft Community pages of the problems people are experiencing with the download, I think it may be easier simply to buy a new computer in 4 years and forget the free upgrade. The problems range from loosing Wi-Fi connections to no sound. They go on and on, I can't even begin to list them all. I know there are plenty of people that is has worked ok, but if you're happy with what you have now, then why risk a problem. I hate the idea of Cortana, but am sure young folks are giddy happy with that.

Robert Goren
08-27-2015, 08:55 AM
I installed windows 10 yesterday. So far everything is as good as it was under windows 8.2 if not better. It is certainly a lot better than windows 7.

forced89
08-27-2015, 09:28 AM
....I think it may be easier simply to buy a new computer in 4 years and forget the free upgrade..... if you're happy with what you have now, then why risk a problem.

Exactly my thinking. I couldn't have said it better.

FocusWiz
08-27-2015, 11:26 AM
I have had no real issues with Windows 10 except I do not like the File Manager changes (why did they put favorites into a separate pane?) and I have not found a way to delete a mistyped user name from the Edge browser cache without clearing nearly everything.

However, that being said, I should forewarn anyone who directs OneDrive to removable media that Microsoft no longer likes us doing that. When I installed Windows 10, it redirected my OneDrive local store from my Micro SD Card back to my C: drive (without any indication). I mentioned that my machine was taking longer to boot and running somewhat hot and that is the reason; it was rebuilding my entire OneDrive file store over again on my system drive. It was not a case of simply redirecting OneDrive back to my Micro SD Card; attempting that just resulted in error messages. There are a couple of ways of working around this, but they are really not user friendly.

I also agree that by default, Microsoft does seem to gather a lot of information that does not seem like any of their business, but most of us have given this information to others (like Google) in the past, so I am not quite sure why this is news to so many reporting websites. The anti-piracy spying is interesting. I have digitized some of my old LPs and I wonder if those will in any way look like pirated music. Likewise, I have digitized movies from DVDs that I have purchased for watching on my phone.

For some alternate views of this privacy intrusion, you could look at these articles:

http://www.theverge.com/2015/8/23/9191989/windows-privacy-and-you

http://www.techinsider.io/why-windows-10-scans-for-pirated-games-2015-8

I also found this to be a useful starting point for more general information:

https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/5213/complete-guide-to-windows-10

headhawg
08-27-2015, 07:51 PM
It is certainly a lot better than windows 7.Um...no.

whodoyoulike
08-27-2015, 08:28 PM
... after reading on the Microsoft Community pages of the problems people are experiencing with the download, I think it may be easier simply to buy a new computer in 4 years and forget the free upgrade. The problems range from loosing Wi-Fi connections to no sound. They go on and on, I can't even begin to list them all. I know there are plenty of people that is has worked ok, but if you're happy with what you have now, then why risk a problem. I hate the idea of Cortana, but am sure young folks are giddy happy with that.

Cotana was the big draw for me to upgrade but, as you've mentioned with all the problems I may not upgrade until I buy a new computer.

When Win10 first became available a couple of people mentioned they upgraded, I wish they would provide an update. It's been about a month. Actually, I haven't seen very many posts (if any) elsewhere by them.

Flysofree
08-27-2015, 09:22 PM
You might try going to the Microsoft website and look around. I think it's simply: www.microsoft.com

Unless you have one of the special Windows 7 or Windows 8 models I thought everyone got the upgrade notice. Maybe you have updates turned off on your computer... Sorry I can't help more.

Flysofree
08-27-2015, 09:25 PM
Um...no.

My guess is that the younger one is the more happy they are about Windows 10. I know 2 other seniors that downloaded Windows 10 and came back..to Windows 7.

You and I agree !

FocusWiz
08-27-2015, 10:48 PM
Cotana was the big draw for me to upgrade but, as you've mentioned with all the problems I may not upgrade until I buy a new computer.

When Win10 first became available a couple of people mentioned they upgraded, I wish they would provide an update. It's been about a month. Actually, I haven't seen very many posts (if any) elsewhere by them.Not sure how much more I can provide.

I converted the machine which was most likely to succeed. One machine needs a new video card before it can be updated, the other needs bluetooth drivers to be updated (which I did) but I have not been able to coax the Windows 10 compatibility appraiser to run again yet, and, thus, I do not know if it will be able to be updated. See here for a discussion of manually running the appraiser:

http://www.thewindowsclub.com/manually-run-windows-10-compatibility-appraiser

On the machine which was upgraded, I have seen no real issues except the problem I described with OneDrive.

This was a machine which was upgraded from Windows 8.1, so it moved a bunch of my "Start Screen" icons around and some of them became blank. Expanding or shrinking them and then resizing them back to their original size fixed that.

CCleaner initially was not cleaning the cache on the Edge Browser, but their most recent update seems to have fixed that. Other than that, the browser is a lot quicker though a lot quirkier than Internet Explorer. As I indicated on another website, it is much faster than Chrome, a little faster than Internet Explorer 11, but nowhere near as fast as my install of Firefox (which has been tweaked to not display graphics or videos or popups and has some other tweaks for speed). I use Firefox for running automated tasks, with iMacros, so this installation is intended to be lean and mean.

I really do not like the way the new File Manager (Windows Explorer) is set up, so I may install Directory Opus so that I have a more familiar look and feel across my machines.

My version of Avast (paid version) is Windows 10 compatible (I made sure before upgrading). Depending on your installation, you may or may not have a compatible antivirus. I shut down Avast during the install of Windows 10.

Other products I have tested work about as they did on Windows 8.1. These include LogMein, the Microsoft Office Suite (Office 365 or Office 2013 depending on what you prefer to call it). I did get a message about some portion of Sugarsync being incompatible before upgrading and I believe that Soluto will not be supporting Windows 10. JV16 Powertools has a new version that is compatible with Windows 10. Directory Opus tries to be among the first in maintaining compatibility, so they have been compatible for several months. All of the batch files and scripts I have run seem to perform the same under Windows 8.1, but I will say that the Command Prompt is far better in the newer version of Windows.

I have installed a couple of Apps from the Windows store without issue and I have had no significant problems running the Edge browser (other than the cache clearing issues). Internet Explorer is still there in case you want to use it, but you need to find it and add it to the start menu yourself if you want easier access.

I do think the OneDrive issue I mentioned is a huge negative for the operating system. As I recall, SkyDrive had to be on your system drive in XP (or you had to trick the system into thinking it was there), but OneDrive was allowed to be anywhere under Windows 8.1. I eventually mounted the removable drive as a subdirectory on my C: Drive and it seems to work. I believe that the way I overcame their restriction has led to a slowdown in my Drive access and I suspect that I should have actually created a dynamic virtual hard disk on the SD Card and then pointed OneDrive there.

In essence it has been an uneventful upgrade and I think the new operating system works quite well and was fairly easy to transition to.

Longshot6977
08-28-2015, 06:22 PM
I would suggest anyone going to W10 to carefully read the terms of use.


http://www.techrepublic.com/article/windows-10-violates-your-privacy-by-default-heres-how-you-can-protect-yourself/

"We will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary to protect our customers or enforce the terms governing the use of the services."

Can't believe not everyone is jumping all over this. Internet security, especially Microsoft's, is pure nonsense or non-existent. They can disclose your personal data etc. They should have made the TOS to have opt-in, but they chose to put your personal security at high risk by default and you have to be knowledgeable enough on how to turn off the many settings they left on by default. No reason for them to do this on your computer. I will stay with Win 7 Ultimate as long as possible.

MJC922
08-28-2015, 08:24 PM
IMO in-place upgrades are never a good idea, by in-place I mean upgrading the OS with your apps already installed, that should really be a last resort. A clean installation is a far better option. Consider too, the machine will typically run most stable when it has device drivers installed that were designed for the specific OS you're running. If I want to install Win10 on a 5 year old PC, it may run ok but locating a Win10 driver for all of the devices in device manager may be a challenge. Those devices were designed years before this OS existed, and there's no guarantee the manufacturer will spend additional development time working on a driver that will be stable on the latest OS. I don't have any home machines that I've ever done an in-place upgrade with. The XP machines have stayed at XP, I just don't use them much and when I do I don't web surf... Win7 will stay at Win7. I have in rare cases had to do in-place upgrades at work... recently some of the server 2003 machines we have in production we decided would be so difficult to re-install the apps on that we've opted to go for in-place upgrades to Server 2008 and limp through the next 4 years on that.

Flysofree
08-28-2015, 10:14 PM
IMO in-place upgrades are never a good idea, by in-place I mean upgrading the OS with your apps already installed, that should really be a last resort. A clean installation is a far better option. Consider too, the machine will typically run most stable when it has device drivers installed that were designed for the specific OS you're running. If I want to install Win10 on a 5 year old PC, it may run ok but locating a Win10 driver for all of the devices in device manager may be a challenge. Those devices were designed years before this OS existed, and there's no guarantee the manufacturer will spend additional development time working on a driver that will be stable on the latest OS. I don't have any home machines that I've ever done an in-place upgrade with. The XP machines have stayed at XP, I just don't use them much and when I do I don't web surf... Win7 will stay at Win7. I have in rare cases had to do in-place upgrades at work... recently some of the server 2003 machines we have in production we decided would be so difficult to re-install the apps on that we've opted to go for in-place upgrades to Server 2008 and limp through the next 4 years on that.


Your post confirms exactly my thoughts and my computer is 5 years old... I won't be seeing Windows 10 on this machine. Thanks.

FocusWiz
08-29-2015, 10:46 AM
Your post confirms exactly my thoughts and my computer is 5 years old... I won't be seeing Windows 10 on this machine. Thanks.I think that is a reasonable approach.

I have a machine which has been upgraded so many times that it probably has no original parts in it. The Operating System was originally DOS 5.0, but it has been upgraded so that licenses of certain products (like Microsoft Project, and Adobe Acrobat) could be upgraded rather than purchased new. Some products are nearly impossible to upgrade unless there is an already installed product that is eligible. It also has thousands of fonts, many of them from collections that were purchased, which originally came on High Density 5¼" disks. This machine is currently on Windows 7 and is my most likely candidate not to move to Windows 10, even though it looks like it will be deemed compatible with just a change of the Video Card (over 9 years old). One thing that I might do and you might consider is to upgrade your hard drive. Cloning the current drive to a new one and then attempting the upgrade with the new one will eliminate the risk that you won't be able to rollback to Windows 7, you could just re-clone the old one and you would be back to a working Windows 7 environment, but with a new hard drive.

An article that seems like what we should expect from systems which are potentially a problem is here.

http://windowssecrets.com/newsletter/thirty-day-win10-experiment-lasts-only-a-week/

Lincoln Spector (the author of the lead article) is a columnist who writes about computers and home electronics for a variety of publications including the computer help column, Answer Line in PC World.

peteman
08-29-2015, 01:29 PM
Random thoughts on windows 10.

Like the idea of putting it on a B or C computer.Or setting it up on a virtual
machine.No need to endanger your good working pc.

I'm in no rush,let them get bugs out.I admit that win 10 looks good.
But I have a lot of Software to set up on new pc.

Love the idea of a fresh install,the way to go.

I will be going 64 bit,upgrading from 32 bit.

Window 10 should work fine on a 5 to 8 yr old pc. Going by microsoft
specs. Link http://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-will-your-pc-run-it/

My guess on old pc's if you have a Quad core or a good dual core,
with 3 gigs of ram,you will be fine with win 10.

Have to still read about the privacy issues,and does it have a xp mode?
so we can still run our old horse racing apps.

Dave Schwartz
08-29-2015, 02:04 PM
I would doubt that 3gb of RAM will be enough.

I have a laptop with 6gb and w8.1 - only machine I own that can take more than 3gb on the motherboard. I will give it a try.

Flysofree
08-30-2015, 03:25 PM
I wonder what the actual percentage of Windows 7 users that will take advantage of a "free" upgrade of the people with say only one computer using that operating system. Now those with multiple computers that might be different.

headhawg
08-30-2015, 10:40 PM
Window 10 should work fine on a 5 to 8 yr old pc. Going by microsoft
specs. Link http://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-will-your-pc-run-it/

My guess on old pc's if you have a Quad core or a good dual core,
with 3 gigs of ram,you will be fine with win 10.Not sure why all the hubbub over Win10. People were reluctant to move from XP to 7, but have no issues with the "free" upgrade to 10? I remember when M$ used to do once-a-year service packs. Anyone who installed those the first day was a fool -- or a glutton for punishment. I will wait until all the unknowns are known before I upgrade. Win7 is a perfectly good OS.

BTW, just cuz the specs say it will run doesn't mean it will run well. And XP barely ran well on 3GBs, so be advised...

FocusWiz
08-30-2015, 10:51 PM
Not sure why all the hubbub over Win10. People were reluctant to move from XP to 7, but have no issues with the "free" upgrade to 10? I guess I live under a rock.

I was not aware of the issue with reluctance to use Windows 7. I was one of those individuals who wanted Windows 7 but was thwarted by the Microsoft rule that you could not upgrade to Windows 7 Professional without first upgrading to Windows Vista Ultimate. It was Vista that I did not want to use. I ended up upgrading twice in the space of about a week when Windows 7 became available; first from XP to Vista Ultimate (it took about a week to get a nice stable, clean platform and to reduce incompatibilities) and then to Windows 7 Professional. It was that experience that made me decide to scrap my laptop and replace it with a Windows 7 laptop (I still have another copy of the Vista Ultimate Upgrade that I never used).

Actually, now that I think of it, they owe me this free upgrade to Windows 10.

FocusWiz
08-30-2015, 10:57 PM
I would doubt that 3gb of RAM will be enough.Realistically, the 32-bit version can't use much more than that. This is why I am reluctant to upgrade my oldest machine, which remains as my only 32-bit machine. I can put up to 32gb of ram on the motherboard, but the 32-bit operating system will have access to a little less than 3.5gb of the first 4gb of RAM.

whodoyoulike
08-30-2015, 10:57 PM
My reluctance to upgrade is because of the problems which have been popping up I guess depending on your system config.

How are these bugs corrected?

Is it an automatic process or do you have to wait a day, week or something else?

I'm just guessing that Microsoft has corrected the known bugs up to that point in time before you've upgraded as of a certain date.

Or, are we upgrading every day?

I remember the XP Service Pack upgrade(s) (I think there were a couple) required you to go to the upgrade section and you decided when and if to upgrade the Service Packs.

FocusWiz
08-30-2015, 11:39 PM
My reluctance to upgrade is because of the problems which have been popping up I guess depending on your system config.

How are these bugs corrected?

Is it an automatic process or do you have to wait a day, week or something else?

I'm just guessing that Microsoft has corrected the known bugs up to that point in time before you've upgraded as of a certain date.

Or, are we upgrading every day?

I remember the XP Service Pack upgrade(s) (I think there were a couple) required you to go to the upgrade section and you decided when to upgrade the Service Packs.They are patching the new system quite frequently, but some of it (like the Edge Browser) is not even completely written yet. I think the longer you wait, the more likely you will have a successful upgrade (if you can upgrade at all). Please note from the article I posted earlier that just because the compatibility checker says your machine is compatible, it is not a guarantee.

My goal is to become accustomed to the look and feel. I could play with machines at the Microsoft Store, but I had one machine (made by Microsoft) which should have been a slam-dunk to upgrade. (Imagine my surprise when they told me that the microphone driver they gave me was incompatible with their operating system!) Since I was not too fond of Windows 8, there was another plus.

Windows 7 is a different story. The older the hardware, the less likely the upgrade will work cleanly. In addition, other vendors may take this as an opportunity for sales. I remember when I upgraded to Windows 7, I lost many additional features on my HP printers because HP did not want to upgrade their drivers to be compatible with Windows 7 (because then, you won't be forced to buy a new printer). My Windows 7 machines work about as reliably as my XP machines did when Vista came out.

There are some benefits of Windows 8 and Windows 10, but they are somewhat esoteric. I like the concept behind GUID Partition Table (GPT) and there are technical benefits beyond the older Master Boot Record (MBR) scheme, but I would see rare times when I would need or want it (though it should be significantly more resistant to corruption of data) and I think that this would be even more true for 99% of the users of Windows who just want a machine that boots and allows them to access the tools they need. Even then, if I want to boot from such a drive, I need a new motherboard with a UEFI BIOS. I certainly did not want this feature sufficiently enough to endure Windows 8, but I may see a benefit to using Windows 10. Even if I can't use if for my boot drives, I will be able to read an external drive with that format. I am not sure I would want to upgrade my motherboard just to enable the secure boot feature in Window 10 that is available under UEFI.

The new operating system also boots faster than Windows 7. If you have a bunch of printer drivers and a copy of QuickBooks and a full version of Adobe plus Sugarsync, SpiderOak and DropBox plus TeamViewer and LogMein (along with Soluto and a couple of AntiMalware solutions), you will never notice the faster boot.

There is a WiFi Analyzer tool finally available for a Windows platform (from the Windows Store). This can graphically show you why your WiFi keeps dropping (because your neighbor is blasting a much higher powered signal on the same channel) and which channels are clear. It can also be used to find "hotspots" whether from your local cable provider or your local Starbucks. Of course, if you have an Android phone, you have had this capability for nearly a decade (no, it is not available for Windows Phone).

Some are touting "Virtual Desktops" (Task View) as a reason to upgrade. I am not sure I see that as anything critical unless you are constantly running multiple complex suites of activities with a short attention span but with a great ability to recall where you left off what. I also think you would need a high-speed 64-bit processer and tons of memory to work that way.

I do like the Notifications Center (informing me of mail, google Voice voicmail, FitBit invitations, and other things), perhaps mainly because the "clear" button is so simple to use (I glance at the notifications and hit "clear").

I tend to think Windows 8 machines would gain significant usability features from upgrading to Windows 10 (unless you already have Stardock Start8 and ModernMix already installed...and even then, it would be a bit cleaner to have these features as part of the operating system rather than as a third-party add-on). I think if you have a cleanly operating Windows 7 machine, you should keep waiting and possibly do some housekeeping on the machine while deciding whether or not to upgrade.

forced89
09-01-2015, 09:09 AM
Be aware. This is what happened to me. I have the "Switch Box" in my laptop's tray but have not made the move yet. I have never touched the box.

I pay for Internet access by usage. Month after month it has been in the $30 - $40 range. Last month it was $100. The reason turned out to be relentless downloads for Windows 10 updates from Misrosoft. My laptop would reject them but Microsoft kept sending them, ergo more Gb usage.

Flysofree
09-01-2015, 10:53 AM
Be aware. This is what happened to me. I have the "Switch Box" in my laptop's tray but have not made the move yet. I have never touched the box.

I pay for Internet access by usage. Month after month it has been in the $30 - $40 range. Last month it was $100. The reason turned out to be relentless downloads for Windows 10 updates from Misrosoft. My laptop would reject them but Microsoft kept sending them, ergo more Gb usage.

I think Microsoft figures offering something for free will guarantee everyone gets on board that is eligible. I have that notice you mention turned off. Of course I have to check for updates every day to be certain that I get the other ones that are security related and so on. It was the only way to stop it.

Dave Schwartz
09-01-2015, 12:05 PM
From what I understand, Win10 will not have service packs. Instead they will have "Tech Updates." Not sure the difference, but sounds like Win10 will not have a "collective" upgrade labeled as they have been in the past.

highnote
09-01-2015, 03:02 PM
I think Microsoft figures offering something for free will guarantee everyone gets on board that is eligible. I have that notice you mention turned off. Of course I have to check for updates every day to be certain that I get the other ones that are security related and so on. It was the only way to stop it.


If the product is free then guess who the product is... you and your personal data.

Flysofree
09-01-2015, 03:31 PM
True, even with a clean install, you have to know where the settings are to turn off the tracking. (And who really knows if that's just a "feel good thingie".) Unfortunately this is the world we live in today. Don't see it getting better.

whodoyoulike
09-01-2015, 04:33 PM
I'll probably just buy a new machine with Win10 already installed in a couple of years. Based on that previous post by forced89, it sounds like frequent upgrades are automatically being sent currently and I would think it would be causing performance delays. I do have a new machine (last year) with Windows 8.1.

Again, the Cortana feature is what I'm interested in learning. Maybe I'll have the ability to run my handicapping stuff or have it read in the background. I know this sounds like I'm just lazy.

FocusWiz
09-03-2015, 12:42 PM
I'll probably just buy a new machine with Win10 already installed in a couple of years. Based on that previous post by forced89, it sounds like frequent upgrades are automatically being sent currently and I would think it would be causing performance delays. I do have a new machine (last year) with Windows 8.1.

Again, the Cortana feature is what I'm interested in learning. Maybe I'll have the ability to run my handicapping stuff or have it read in the background. I know this sounds like I'm just lazy.Just a couple of things.

Right now, I do not believe there are any user tools for integrating Cortana with an existing application; you would need to find a handicapping tool already integrated with it to use Cortana to run it. Currently, Cortana is fine for setting up alarms or telling stale "knock-knock" jokes, but it has hardly achieved an Artificial Intelligence state.

I think it is a bit more user friendly than Windows 8.1, but it is not an earth-shaking difference. As I indicated, the virtual desktops feature may be useful. For example, you may want to put all your handicapping activities in a separate view than anything else you are working on. However, that feature could be of limited value if you don't have tons of memory and a fast machine.

Also, I have not seen tons of updates but the initial download that Force89 described using tons of bandwidth is definitely true. That seems to happen whether you actually upgrade or don't. As long as you have a "reservation" it will start downloading.

One thing I have seen that is quite common is that the Edge Browser is quite easily hijacked if you solely running the Microsoft Defender anti-malware. As I indicated, they have not finished writing this product, so there is no way to unset certain settings nor to "reset" it to its original installed state as there are in Internet Explorer. I really think the only reason that this incomplete product was released was because it is linked with Cortana and delaying Edge would have delayed both. I think waiting has benefits.

I am definitely planning to upgrade all of my Windows 8.1 machines once they finish writing Edge. I am likely going to stay on Windows 7 for those machines unless I find something critical that only works on Windows 10.

Sinner369
09-03-2015, 03:20 PM
"I am definitely planning to upgrade all of my Windows 8.1 machines once they finish writing Edge. I am likely going to stay on Windows 7 for those machines unless I find something critical that only works on Windows 10."

Similar to yourself, I have two machines........one with Windows 7 and my laptop has Windows 8.1.

I find that Windows 7 is very solid and stable, while I can take it or leave with my laptop on Windows 8.1.

I plan to update to Windows 10 with my laptop (Win 8.1) and leave my Win 7 machine until next year.

It is always better to wait until Microsoft gets most of the bugs out first.

whodoyoulike
09-03-2015, 04:11 PM
Just a couple of things.

Right now, I do not believe there are any user tools for integrating Cortana with an existing application; you would need to find a handicapping tool already integrated with it to use Cortana to run it. Currently, Cortana is fine for setting up alarms or telling stale "knock-knock" jokes, but it has hardly achieved an Artificial Intelligence state. ...

I've only read about Cortana and it's potential AI abilities a few months ago. I was thinking of AI at the minimum of "speaking commands" such as, "Open file and run" .... or say "read today's CNBC headlines" etc. It would be much later I was thinking I would be able to ask Cortana ...... "Who do you like in race xx etc."?

FocusWiz
09-03-2015, 04:44 PM
I can do a lot more on my phone (Windows Phone) than I can do on my Surface Pro 2 (though the latter is much more powerful).

You may have better success than I have, but although I can get Cortana to open Excel with voice commands, I have not been able to get it to open a workbook. If I tell it to open the last workbook, it shows me only workbooks recently accessed in my Documents folder (no, not even in my OneDrive folder). Opening one of these is a mouse or finger gesture. Many commands (such as "Read today's CNBC Headlines") will just bring up a list of Bing search results in a browser.

It will audibly respond to these:

What's today's weather?
How far to Chicago?
Knock Knock
Who is the President of the United States
How much is 384 plus 528?
How do you say [pick a word or phrase] in [pick a language]

These kinds of commands bring up a list of Bing search results:
Where is Mountaineer Park?
Who won the Travers Handicap?
Where is Microsoft Stock Trading?

I tried this, but it doesn't predict the future (it did bring up Seth Marrow's Today's Best bets from Equidaily Racing Journal in a browser):

Who will win the Eighth Race as Saratoga today?

Seth's first pick:
Clearly Now...Not at the top of his game but one time graded stakes quality runner might be better than these.

YMMV

whodoyoulike
09-03-2015, 05:39 PM
Thanks.

Again, I've only read about the potential AI possibilities of Cortana. I just may be misunderstanding the potential of AI and computer uses. So, I don't see a need to rush to upgrade to Windows 10. After all, I still continue to do most of my computing on my XP because I'm used to it.

Btw, my smartphone already performs those requests which you've suggested.

Flysofree
09-03-2015, 05:44 PM
I'm assuming that you can't download Windows 10 WITHOUT Cortana?

Hopefully when I do buy a new computer with Windows 10 there will be a simple option to disable it.

098poi
09-03-2015, 05:50 PM
Check this out. It is a little difficult to understand his accent but there are a ton of new vids about W10 and it monitoring everything you do. You can view similar vids that pop up or just search Windows 10 Spying on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gghj03J_ri0

FocusWiz
09-03-2015, 06:18 PM
I'm assuming that you can't download Windows 10 WITHOUT Cortana?

Hopefully when I do buy a new computer with Windows 10 there will be a simple option to disable it.
I believe its voice operation is disabled by default. It is the default search tool within Windows, though, so it is somewhat always on.

Robert Goren
09-03-2015, 11:24 PM
Thanks.

Again, I've only read about the potential AI possibilities of Cortana. I just may be misunderstanding the potential of AI and computer uses. So, I don't see a need to rush to upgrade to Windows 10. After all, I still continue to do most of my computing on my XP because I'm used to it.

Btw, my smartphone already performs those requests which you've suggested.The difference between XP and Windows 10 is like difference between 2003 and 2015. In 2003, I had no clue what 2010 was going to be like, but there plenty of horror stories about what it was going to be like in 12 years. Almost all were wrong and so are the horror stories of Windows 10. It is huge improvement over anything that proceed it. Continue to live in the past if you want, but you will missing out. I never regretted for even one "length" downloading it.

Flysofree
09-04-2015, 01:00 PM
The difference between XP and Windows 10 is like difference between 2003 and 2015. In 2003, I had no clue what 2010 was going to be like, but there plenty of horror stories about what it was going to be like in 12 years. Almost all were wrong and so are the horror stories of Windows 10. It is huge improvement over anything that proceed it. Continue to live in the past if you want, but you will missing out. I never regretted for even one "length" downloading it.

I like Windows 7 better than Windows XP, but everyone I know personally, liked Windows 7 better than Windows 8. Windows 10 will be forced on me in 4 years and I'm guessing it will be better than it is now .

Hoofless_Wonder
09-07-2015, 05:26 PM
If the product is free then guess who the product is... you and your personal data.

And for those who thought they were safe on Windows 7 or 8, M$ is now rolling out the telemetry function on those platforms as well. Basically, you subsidize their o/s via your data......

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/09/06/windows-10-worst-feature-now-installing-on-windows-7-and-windows-8/

The three updates in question – KB3075249, KB3080149 and KB3068708 (which replaces KB3022345) – all add “customer experience and diagnostic telemetry” to Windows 7 and Windows 8. This is shorthand for monitoring how you use Windows and sending that data back to Microsoft HQ for evaluation.

Worse still software specialist site gHacks, which first discovered the tracking, notes these updates will ignore any previous user preferences:

“These four updates ignore existing user preferences stored in Windows 7 and Windows 8 (including any edits made to the Hosts file) and immediately starts exchanging user data with vortex-win.data.microsoft.com and settings-win.data.microsoft.com.”

Fred
09-09-2015, 09:12 AM
I went back to W7 after I tried W10. The reason is my computer started running slower and freezing up. Anyway I am back to W7 but cannot backup. My dell computer would automatically backup to Drive D but would run out of space but I would simply go to control panel and backup files and free up space by deleting one of the two backups. When I try that now I get this:
The task image is corrupt or has been tampered with-0X80041321. This started immediately after down loading W10 before I went back to W7. I have tried restore and everything else within my scope of limited computer knowledge all to no avail. I have Googled the issue but can't find a fix or at least one I can do.

Flysofree
09-09-2015, 10:23 AM
I went back to W7 after I tried W10. The reason is my computer started running slower and freezing up. Anyway I am back to W7 but cannot backup. My dell computer would automatically backup to Drive D but would run out of space but I would simply go to control panel and backup files and free up space by deleting one of the two backups. When I try that now I get this:
The task image is corrupt or has been tampered with-0X80041321. This started immediately after down loading W10 before I went back to W7. I have tried restore and everything else within my scope of limited computer knowledge all to no avail. I have Googled the issue but can't find a fix or at least one I can do.

Thanks for posting. You may have to call the toll free help line with Microsoft as a last resort. I am now 100% sure that I won't try the free upgrade to W10.

senortout
09-09-2015, 10:47 AM
Be aware. This is what happened to me. I have the "Switch Box" in my laptop's tray but have not made the move yet. I have never touched the box.

I pay for Internet access by usage. Month after month it has been in the $30 - $40 range. Last month it was $100. The reason turned out to be relentless downloads for Windows 10 updates from Misrosoft. My laptop would reject them but Microsoft kept sending them, ergo more Gb usage.

Surely seems like there is something wrong there! This is wi-fi service you are buying? My AT&T service allows 150 gb /month before adding fees. If you are NOT ACCEPTING downloads, your costs should go up Nada, Zero.

senortout
09-09-2015, 11:22 AM
I had been like many of you re: doing the upgrade, maybe more so, due to the way I boot my system. I am dual-booting, that is, I was running Windows 7 and 14.04.2 Ubuntu on the same machine. This is an Asus deisktop vintage late 2011. It does have 8 gb memory, 64-bit, a dedicated nvidia graphics card, and an I7 intel chip. So its hefty in that regard.
Dual-booting mean you have to choose which system to use, at boot-up. As I turn my computer off when finished for the day, this choice must be made when starting up, daily. The machine knows to boot into my preferred system by default. Thus, booting is unattended, most times. And the boot is thus nearly always into Ubuntu.

The problem dual-booting presents is what made me think a lot harder before accepting the upgrade. Since, you see, most Microsoft upgrades require multiple 'restarts' while performing their tasks. The 'grub2' bootloader is installed by the Ubuntu operating system and that adds an additional layer of complexity. Long story short, I did perform the upgrade, (here I must emphasize that I did not leave the operation to take any sort of break, never left. Period) The miracle was, I am one of those 'early guys' who must always be in on the 'ground floor' of things. And, this time, for once, I was not disappointed. Everything just fell into place. Even the 'grub2' bootloader remained functional, though I'd studied how to repair that after the upgrade, had it been necessary.
I am happy to report that Windows 10 is a nice improvement over 8.1(my sister has that on her laptop, had I should say, she has successfully updated that to windows 10 after my good experience) I do spend significantly more time on the Windows side of my desktop now. I had nearly relegated Windows 7 to the dust bin prior to this update.

Right now I will tell you the diff. between Windows 10 and Ubuntu, not that you asked. Linux(Ubuntu) is more 'staightforward' and although there are some bells and whistles, the system is very solid. You can mess it up (just like Windows) but you can fix it too, with well thought-out methods, and a great help community. So it was a great step for me to try Ubuntu in the first place.

Windows 10 is an improvement. Cortana has a long long way to go before it could prove really really useful. Here is one small example...Cortano comes with an option, the option is listen for my voice or anyones voice, and if you choose my voice, it gives you six or seven short sentences to speak into the mic. Fine. I think to myself, self, try not to speak too loudly or you will always have to be shouting to get Cortana's attention. So, brilliantly I thought, I spoke in quite normal tones while doing the learning process. And, Cortana understood every word of every sentence, first time!...great, so far. Test completed, started using Cortana. Hey Cortana(said to get her attention, must say this) Hey Cortana what's the weather, and she answers me vocally, its such and such temp, and sunny, cloudy, raining, etc...so far so good. hey Cortana say the time , and she says the time, very good. Hey Cortana open the browser(she opens the browser that you have made the default browser) Edge is the default browser, if I recall correctly and she'd normally open that one. I like Firefox so I searched around and found the default settings and changed it there to Firefox. Hey Cortana open the browser, fine, she opens Firefox now. Now comes the brutal shortcoming, browser opening-wise....Hey Cortana, open the Ny Times.com and she take me there using the search engine(bing by default) but I still have to click on the one from a list she brings up. Ah there's the rub. Really, now, what good is she? End of blah blah post. Hope some of you can decide to try the upgrade, it didn't go all that badly, all things considered.

senortout
09-09-2015, 11:29 AM
I'd lost my train of thought on Cortana, and left out something quite puzzling, and more than a little irritating. After a bit, Cortana starts acting like she didn't hear you say Hey Cortana, and you find yourself yelling at her anyway. Now isn't that special! Recall that I ran through her testing process with quite normal speaking levels, lotta good that did. And I might add my sis encountered that very same problem. So for all you girls out there, Cortana is 'just like a woman'.......my apologies, its only a manner of speaking and not intended to offend.

Flysofree
09-09-2015, 02:43 PM
Cortana will become a popular name within 10 years and parents won't be able to say... "hey Cortana". :D


I just wish Microsoft had made this into a Windows 10 pro or extra or whatever they like and left it out of the basic Windows 10.. It's worthless to me.

Hoofless_Wonder
09-14-2015, 11:40 AM
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2425381/microsoft-is-downloading-windows-10-to-your-machine-just-in-case

Microsoft told us: "For individuals who have chosen to receive automatic updates through Windows Update, we help upgradable devices get ready for Windows 10 by downloading the files they’ll need if they decide to upgrade.
"When the upgrade is ready, the customer will be prompted to install Windows 10 on the device.”
In other words, if you are patching via Patch Tuesday, as you should of course be, then you are going to get a big hefty folder on your hard drive ready so you can update to Windows 10 on demand.

That kind of "help" takes up 3.5 to 6.0 GB of storage, and the bandwidth to get it downloaded....

Flysofree
09-14-2015, 12:39 PM
Each time I do a download of windows Updates, I have to go back and take out

KB3035583 on my HP desktop computer. For some reason on my laptop computer I don't have to take this update out each time. It downloads the others but ignores this one.

But I think for the most part both would do the download to Windows 10 if I simply said do it. What will really be interesting is when July 29th 2016 arrives and people like me have NOT done the free upgrade. It's no longer "free" after that date.

MJC922
09-14-2015, 02:54 PM
After that date they might pay you to take it. :)

FocusWiz
09-18-2015, 07:31 PM
I doubt this will apply to anyone but me, but I found an obscure reason to upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10 for me. I am planning to use BitLocker To Go to encrypt a removable flash drive. This drive can be secured using Windows 7 Ultimate (which I have on one machine), Windows 8 or 8.1 Professional (which I had on the machine I upgraded to Windows 10), or Windows 10 Professional (which is the version you go to from Windows 7 Ultimate or Professional or from Windows 8 or 8.1 Professional).

Decrypting what I just wrote, if you have Windows 7 Professional (or less), you will not be able to automatically decrypt a BitLocker To Go drive and will have to enter a password every time you access said drive because Microsoft did not deem it appropriate to include the BitLocker feature in their "Professional" versions or below (in Windows Vista and Windows 7). However, if you were to upgrade from Windows 7 Professional to Windows 10 Professional (technically, even if you were to upgrade to Windows 8.1 Professional), you would magically be endowed with this feature.

I am now in a quandary about my Windows 7 Laptop and whether to attempt an upgrade (it still needs certain drivers to be updated to be fully compatible with Windows 10).

NorCalGreg
09-18-2015, 08:27 PM
I've been advised by our family IT expert (my son, by virtue of him being young) to just stay with Windows 8. It's not broke, so why fix it. I think it was hcap that has W-10, he found that he had to go get Adobe updates and such, they don't automatically update. Adobe and MS being arch-enemies I believe. So until absolutely have to, not gonna do it....wouldn't be prudent.

reckless
09-18-2015, 09:23 PM
I am far from a tech expert by any means so take this with a grain of salt. :)

I have a HP 15 Touch Smart laptop I bought about a year ago. There's 8 mg of RAM, large HD, Intel i3 Core processor, etc., etc. And Windows 8.1.

I basically didn't like the Win 8.1 op system. Just too many little annoyances to mention here but it made me miss my very old Windows XP Dell 2300 desktop every day! :)

Now there's a Windows upgrade available -- free, of course! I did do some reading and found out that this new free upgrade just about locks you into the Microsoft Windows environment forever and ever. The upgrade makes it impossible (?) to later change operating systems to Android or Linux either cleanly or via duel booting.

Well, if totally true or not, that pissed me off enough about Win 8.1 that I said, no upgrade at any price.

I get a Linux magazine regularly and they often have linux distros to try. I did, Ubuntu 14.04 LTS and it installed easily on my laptop. When the installer asked about what to do with the other system on the computer, I chose erase Windows completely and install Ubuntu.

I am far from a power user and don't have a heavy tech job so I am in a different boat than some of you guys, I know. But I am now completely in the Linux/Open Source world of computing with an earlier Ubuntu distro, 10.04 on my Dell 2300 desktop, and a 32-bit Linux Mint distro installed on an Acer laptop I have that's 7-8 years old.

Linux made it possible for me to save two old computers that otherwise would have been thrown in the scrap heap. Microsoft simply tells people to go to hell. There are options out there everyone.

FocusWiz
09-19-2015, 10:30 AM
I tend to shy away from "new" releases and Windows 10 is not any better than any other "initial" Microsoft release. That being said, it is a significant improvement over Windows 8 and I have found only one (admittedly obscure) reason to prefer it over Windows 7 Professional.

Regarding multi-boot environments. I have used BootIt products from TerabyteUnlimited for years without any problems and have not noticed any warnings from them that Windows 10 would be any exception.

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/

They know as much or more than any of their competitors about hard drives and boot sectors and I suspect there would have been significant warnings if their products are somehow compromised by a Windows 10 upgrade. Obviously, I have not tried this yet, so I speak from a perspective of ignorance, but I have grown to trust this company so I tend to rely on their guidance (I have used their products since DOS 5.0). The issue with Windows 10 is that unlike their prior upgrades, you are not allowed by the license to run a dual boot with the license you upgraded. Their prior licenses always stated that, but I do not think they were checking as closely for violators. My understanding is that you have a limited time to reactivate your old (Windows 7 or Windows 8 license) in a rollback scenario, but after that window (forgive the pun) closes, you are stuck with Windows 10 and if you want a dual boot with Windows 7 or Windows 8, you need to purchase and install that product with a new license.