Freaky Feet Pete

[zico20]

Even though he is only a three year old limited to Indiana sire stakes right now, Freaky Feet Pete could very easily be the best horse in harness racing, pacer or trotter. What an incredible performance last night. Went 148.2 under wraps while the Dan Patch free for all went in 148.4 with a faster half mile. Keep an eye on this one. Could develop into one of the greatest ever.

[lamboguy]

i was actually thinking that he could be better than WIGGLEITJIGGLEIT. the only thing is that WIGGLE has been running against better horses, while FREAKY has only run in Indiana races

[Sinner369]

When is the horse going to race in the bigger stakes races? Or goto Meadowlands, Mohawk or any of the bigger tracks?

[Ray2000]

They'll meet again on Oct 10th

http://www.harnessracingupdate.com/pdf/hru/hru081615.pdf?v2

[zico20]

He won today with ease by about 5 lengths. He came from way behind in a slow 149.4. Another one of those Indiana bred sire stakes for 75,000. Looking forward to his rematch with Wiggle It.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Freaky will have two shots at WIJI, the Indiana Sire Stake Final in October and then again at Woodbine in the Breeder's. So far, WIJI is leading one to none.

The one time they did meet (think it was in May this year) at Hoosier, Freaky had the 9 hole and WIJI the 7 hole. Montreal put WIJI on top and hand drove for the win in the slop while Freaky was hung leaving until leaving the last turn and took a two hole trip in the lane to finish a close enough second (given the trip).

Of the two, WIJI has more speed but Freaky has the endurance with closing speed. These two races will be something to watch. Hope that both horses stay healthy.

[cmp92]

He gets a big test tonight. Racing at Hoosier Park against Wakizashi Hanover in Race 12.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

He gets a big test tonight. Racing at Hoosier Park against Wakizashi Hanover in Race 12.
This goes into another discussion on the greatest Little Brown Jug of all time. I do appreciate the effort and in fact really impressed me the way WIJI went against bias, against the best driver ever at the Del Co Fair oval without having the horse urged at least once with the whip. But, with horses like Freaky Feet Pete and Wakizashi Hanover plus others like In the Arsenal, the field of 2015 was not as strong as the one that Life Sign faced in 1993. I still believe that was the best effort and the best race run by any horse in the LBJ, bar none.

As for tonight, I do believe home court advantage lies withing the Freak. He does not have ship across country to meet the foes and he is racing regularly. Think he has nine wins in a row beating up the lesser than's in Indiana. He should win tonight but it won't be in a cake walk. Think the track is playing to speed so far. As long as the track doesn't see rain, that race can go in 1:48 and a piece without too much effort.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Freaky will have two shots at WIJI, the Indiana Sire Stake Final in October and then again at Woodbine in the Breeder's. So far, WIJI is leading one to none.

The one time they did meet (think it was in May this year) at Hoosier, Freaky had the 9 hole and WIJI the 7 hole. Montreal put WIJI on top and hand drove for the win in the slop while Freaky was hung leaving until leaving the last turn and took a two hole trip in the lane to finish a close enough second (given the trip).

Of the two, WIJI has more speed but Freaky has the endurance with closing speed. These two races will be something to watch. Hope that both horses stay healthy.
Just read somewhere that the Teagues might not send WIJI to the Breeder's in Canada. Their sites definitely is back in the Hoosier state and the Oct 10th final. Think George said something about those two trips being really rough on him. At least we will see him them lock horns at least one more time this year.

WIJI being a gelding leaves me really excited about his fourth and later years on the track. No need to push him with all that money in front of him.

[pandy]

With Wiggle out of the Breeders Crown, Wakisashi Hanover should take it.

[lamboguy]

Just read somewhere that the Teagues might not send WIJI to the Breeder's in Canada. Their sites definitely is back in the Hoosier state and the Oct 10th final. Think George said something about those two trips being really rough on him. At least we will see him them lock horns at least one more time this year.

WIJI being a gelding leaves me really excited about his fourth and later years on the track. No need to push him with all that money in front of him.no question the 2 heats at LBJ were the most exciting horse races that i have ever seen anywhere. i have been a fan of WIJI this whole year and would travel to see him run again in person.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

no question the 2 heats at LBJ were the most exciting horse races that i have ever seen anywhere. i have been a fan of WIJI this whole year and would travel to see him run again in person.

Still think the best Jug Final ever was in 1993, Life Sign with John Campbell. Do believe the field he faced (included the likes of Riyadh and Presidential Ball) was a lot stronger field than this year's Jug Final. In fact, Life Sign was parked for all but about 8 seconds in that race that had Riyadh vying for the third leg of the Triple Crown having won both the Cane and Messenger. Life Sign put in a Herculean effort that day.

https://youtu.be/XxQUGTaKS3M

[cj]

I remember Precious Bunny winning the Jug in something like 1:55, was faster in his heat in 54 and change. Where has this five seconds of speed come from in such a relatively short time?

[lamboguy]

the modified sulkies and bikes

[RaceTrackDaddy]

I remember Precious Bunny winning the Jug in something like 1:55, was faster in his heat in 54 and change. Where has this five seconds of speed come from in such a relatively short time?

In 1980, Niatross set the World Record winning the Jug in 1:54:4 breaking the record from the previous year by Hot Hitter in 1:55:3. Then in 1985, Niatross' son Nihilator won the Jug in 1:52:1. But on that day, another three year old no eligible for the Jug won an Invitational in 1:51:0 https://youtu.be/3goC50jhdjU

So for Precious Bunny winning in 1:55 one would assume that it was a off year for the Bunny in time with respect to track records or the Bunny was so good, did not have to go that fast to complete the job.

Some might assume that track conditions, banking, better bikes have improved the speed of these races and it has but so has the breeding of speedy sires to speedy mares. Genetics has a lot to account for the increase in seed in racing but it is more gradual. After all they went in 1:51 in 1985 and did not break that mark until Million Dollar Cam in 2002 when he won in 1:50:2. There were a few 1:51: and a piece before that as in 1995 Nick's Fantasy won in 1:51:2, 1997 Western Dreamer won in 1:51:1 and in 2001 Bettor's Delight in 1:51:2.

Looking back at all these Jug winners has more than reminded me of old times, it just dawned on me, that I was at Delaware for all but one, 2002 (due to my bone marrow transplant complications but did see him win the Adios) of these Jug Days (and many Jugette days prior).

[pandy]

I remember Precious Bunny winning the Jug in something like 1:55, was faster in his heat in 54 and change. Where has this five seconds of speed come from in such a relatively short time?

I don't buy the breeding thing, which is wishful thinking. The difference between the bike and wheels that Precious Bunny used and the current sulkies/wheels, is vast. The current bikes are actually 10 inches offset, so the horses literally race 10 inches closer to the inside. The aerodynamics are far superior, the wheels are lighter and I've been told by drivers that if you turn one of the new bikes upside down and spin the wheels, the bearings and axle are so much better than they used to be that the wheel can spin for a very long time. Plus the latest bikes are lighter than the wood sulkies. Anyone who understands engineering knows that the current sulkies are much faster.

Is is possible that the breed is faster? It's possible that the breed has gotten a little faster, but the main difference is the sulky. The reason why I'm so confident that the main difference is the sulky is because very time a new generation of sulky has come out, the horses immediately went a second or two faster. Anyone who thinks the horses are much faster has not followed the evolution of the sulky.

For example, when the first steel bike (modified sulky) came out in 1977, this bike alone cut 2 to 4 seconds off the times depending on the size of the track and horse. Some horses literally improved by four seconds overnight, obviously not the breed getting faster. When the first off set bikes came out, The Harmer, that was easily another two seconds. On a one mile track, that's six seconds right there.

Thoroughbreds also use in breeding speed to speed and the horses are not at all faster than they used to be.

The pitfalls of these faster bikes are critical. For one, the horses go lame more often now and they race less often because of it. This drives owners out of the sport because of vet bills, and of course when horses are lame they can't earn any money. The fast fractions are brutal on the horses.

Another big problem, the faster bikes made the racing speed favoring and also created a severe post position bias, which is the main reason why the favorites dominate harness racing. The driver who has the best horse from a decent post simply sends the horse to the lead and tries to bottom out the field with fast fractions. Consequently, closers rarely win anymore and there is very little movement in many of the races.

Yes, there are still some great races, like this year's Jug. But generally speaking, the speed bias has severely damaged harness racing as a betting and spectator sport.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

I don't buy the breeding thing, which is wishful thinking. The difference between the bike and wheels that Precious Bunny used and the current sulkies/wheels, is vast. The current bikes are actually 10 inches offset, so the horses literally race 10 inches closer to the inside. The aerodynamics are far superior, the wheels are lighter and I've been told by drivers that if you turn one of the new bikes upside down and spin the wheels, the bearings and axle are so much better than they used to be that the wheel can spin for a very long time. Plus the latest bikes are lighter than the wood sulkies. Anyone who understands engineering knows that the current sulkies are much faster.

Is is possible that the breed is faster? It's possible that the breed has gotten a little faster, but the main difference is the sulky. The reason why I'm so confident that the main difference is the sulky is because very time a new generation of sulky has come out, the horses immediately went a second or two faster. Anyone who thinks the horses are much faster has not followed the evolution of the sulky.

For example, when the first steel bike (modified sulky) came out in 1977, this bike alone cut 2 to 4 seconds off the times depending on the size of the track and horse. Some horses literally improved by four seconds overnight, obviously not the breed getting faster. When the first off set bikes came out, The Harmer, that was easily another two seconds. On a one mile track, that's six seconds right there.

Thoroughbreds also use in breeding speed to speed and the horses are not at all faster than they used to be.

The pitfalls of these faster bikes are critical. For one, the horses go lame more often now and they race less often because of it. This drives owners out of the sport because of vet bills, and of course when horses are lame they can't earn any money. The fast fractions are brutal on the horses.

Another big problem, the faster bikes made the racing speed favoring and also created a severe post position bias, which is the main reason why the favorites dominate harness racing. The driver who has the best horse from a decent post simply sends the horse to the lead and tries to bottom out the field with fast fractions. Consequently, closers rarely win anymore and there is very little movement in many of the races.

Yes, there are still some great races, like this year's Jug. But generally speaking, the speed bias has severely damaged harness racing as a betting and spectator sport.

Pandy:
I thought you were a numbers guy. I was the bike guy. IN face, when Stein came out with the Black Jack and then later the offset bike of the Harmer, I was the one to tell you about it as Dave Palone (Mea) and Dave Hawk (Nfld) got free bikes to test out and they both lent them out to different guys to try out.

Anyway here is the list I copied from LBJ site. In this list, Falcon Seelsters 1:51 is missing but Nihilator's 1:52 and piece is entered. I truncated the 1 minute portion of the time and change the fifth of a second to 0.2 seconds.

The trend line is a power line. I reversed the data numbers as speed is more powerful as the number (time) falls. First attachment is the list of winners without 2015 as the LBJ has yet to update their page but we all know the winning mile was 1:49:3 or 49.6 for this chart.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

I don't buy the breeding thing, which is wishful thinking. The difference between the bike and wheels that Precious Bunny used and the current sulkies/wheels, is vast. The current bikes are actually 10 inches offset, so the horses literally race 10 inches closer to the inside. The aerodynamics are far superior, the wheels are lighter and I've been told by drivers that if you turn one of the new bikes upside down and spin the wheels, the bearings and axle are so much better than they used to be that the wheel can spin for a very long time. Plus the latest bikes are lighter than the wood sulkies. Anyone who understands engineering knows that the current sulkies are much faster.

Is is possible that the breed is faster? It's possible that the breed has gotten a little faster, but the main difference is the sulky. The reason why I'm so confident that the main difference is the sulky is because very time a new generation of sulky has come out, the horses immediately went a second or two faster. Anyone who thinks the horses are much faster has not followed the evolution of the sulky.

For example, when the first steel bike (modified sulky) came out in 1977, this bike alone cut 2 to 4 seconds off the times depending on the size of the track and horse. Some horses literally improved by four seconds overnight, obviously not the breed getting faster. When the first off set bikes came out, The Harmer, that was easily another two seconds. On a one mile track, that's six seconds right there.

Thoroughbreds also use in breeding speed to speed and the horses are not at all faster than they used to be.

The pitfalls of these faster bikes are critical. For one, the horses go lame more often now and they race less often because of it. This drives owners out of the sport because of vet bills, and of course when horses are lame they can't earn any money. The fast fractions are brutal on the horses.

Another big problem, the faster bikes made the racing speed favoring and also created a severe post position bias, which is the main reason why the favorites dominate harness racing. The driver who has the best horse from a decent post simply sends the horse to the lead and tries to bottom out the field with fast fractions. Consequently, closers rarely win anymore and there is very little movement in many of the races.

Yes, there are still some great races, like this year's Jug. But generally speaking, the speed bias has severely damaged harness racing as a betting and spectator sport.

Here is the chart with the power line. To say that the bike is a major influence may or may not be true; but for the discussion of this thread with respect to the Little Brown Jug and speed over the years, the statistics do not prove your theory.

I am as surprised by this chart results as you may be as there might be a major difference from one year to another year; but over time, it is a gradual increase in speed which may support my theory on genetics a little more than yours on bikes.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Forgot to mention that the modified might have come out prior to 1977 as Armbro Ranger did not use one as Joe O'brien was not convinced back then and the Ranger used the conventional while Stanley Dancer and Keystone Ore did use the bike in the Adios. I think the year was 1975 or 1976 that O'brien beat Dancer in the Adios in one of the best races I have seen at that track. I was either in my senor year of college or just graduated, just can't recall.

[MutuelClerk]

Pete takes down WIJI with a perfect pocket trip!!!!

[cmp92]

Pete takes down WIJI with a perfect pocket trip!!!!
Entertaining stretch drive and a great effort by Pete. I wonder if this is it for WIJI this year. I know Teague expressed some reservations about the Breeders Crown, I can't imagine this really helps. WIJI has had a long year and a huge effort in the LBJ, not sure if Teague is too eager to take him all the way back up to Canada in one week.

[pandy]

Pete takes down WIJI with a perfect pocket trip!!!!


Not to take anything away from Freaky Pete but WIJI was almost a guaranteed bounce after two brutal trips in the Jug. I can't believe so many people bet him to win, horrible bet.

[pandy]

Classy comments from George Teague after the race. He said that the Jug did not take anything out of WIJI and he gave full credit to Freaky Feet Pete, and his final sprint speed.

[lamboguy]

the way i saw it, coming from the 2nd tier helped FREAKY FEET PETE. he did run a great race though and deserved the win.