OVER AND UNDER ODDS OF AP IN TRAVERS

[NY BRED]

LET'S SEE, MR. Z. SAYS READY TO GO, BAFFERT STATES 'NOT SO FAST"

AP SHIPPED BACK TO CA, AND NOW HE RETURNS TO THE SPA?

INMHO, IF THIS CREW EXPECTED TO RUN AT THE SPA, THEY WOULD HAVE
STAYED IN NJ, BE SHIPPING NOW TO THE SPA TO BREEZE AP
AND SCHOOL HIM IN THE PADDOCK,ETC..

I SOMEHOW FEEL THE DELAY INVOLVES A DEMAND OF A BUMP IN THE
PURSE WHICH I BELIEVE NYRA WOULD DECLINE,

THEREFORE, IF AP ISN'T ENTERED, THE 50K ATTENDANCE CAP
ON AUGUST 29TH IS REALISTIC.

HOPING FOR CLOSURE ON THIS MATTER THIS WEEK..

[Kash$]

LET'S SEE, MR. Z. SAYS READY TO GO, BAFFERT STATES 'NOT SO FAST"

AP SHIPPED BACK TO CA, AND NOW HE RETURNS TO THE SPA?

INMHO, IF THIS CREW EXPECTED TO RUN AT THE SPA, THEY WOULD HAVE
STAYED IN NJ, BE SHIPPING NOW TO THE SPA TO BREEZE AP
AND SCHOOL HIM IN THE PADDOCK,ETC..

I SOMEHOW FEEL THE DELAY INVOLVES A DEMAND OF A BUMP IN THE
PURSE WHICH I BELIEVE NYRA WOULD DECLINE,

THEREFORE, IF AP ISN'T ENTERED, THE 50K ATTENDANCE CAP
ON AUGUST 29TH IS REALISTIC.

HOPING FOR CLOSURE ON THIS MATTER THIS WEEK..

Stated before hopes he races in Travers...but im more convinced now he stays out west.One race for Del Mar fans then BC

[dilanesp]

He'll be 1 to 9 against any field of 3 year olds.

[castaway01]

LET'S SEE, MR. Z. SAYS READY TO GO, BAFFERT STATES 'NOT SO FAST"

AP SHIPPED BACK TO CA, AND NOW HE RETURNS TO THE SPA?

INMHO, IF THIS CREW EXPECTED TO RUN AT THE SPA, THEY WOULD HAVE
STAYED IN NJ, BE SHIPPING NOW TO THE SPA TO BREEZE AP
AND SCHOOL HIM IN THE PADDOCK,ETC..

I SOMEHOW FEEL THE DELAY INVOLVES A DEMAND OF A BUMP IN THE
PURSE WHICH I BELIEVE NYRA WOULD DECLINE,

THEREFORE, IF AP ISN'T ENTERED, THE 50K ATTENDANCE CAP
ON AUGUST 29TH IS REALISTIC.

HOPING FOR CLOSURE ON THIS MATTER THIS WEEK..

Purse was bumped for AP already, so you're wrong right off the bat.

[tucker6]

His next race will not be against 3 year olds only. To do that would be considered a regression by many based on expectations. I suspect the connection feel similarly.

[mountainman]

His next race will not be against 3 year olds only. To do that would be considered a regression by many based on expectations. I suspect the connection feel similarly.

With the triple behind them and the classic so clearly the goal, you think those guys give one HOOT about what's "expected" along the way????????????

[tucker6]

With the triple behind them and the classic so clearly the goal, you think those guys give one HOOT about what's "expected" along the way????????????
yeah I do Mr 12 question marks. Zayat has his chest puffed out about owning a TC horse. He's not going to tarnish AP's momentum and image by slow playing him until the BCC. There is far less money to be made against the horses he has flogged already than there is against fresh, older horses.

[nijinski]

Despite what some think , he's done a lot and he's traveleld.a good deal . He's only three , let him be sound and and healthy , that's the most important factor. if he has lost weight and is a bit fatigued , no need to race him twice this month. I know many will be bummed if he misses the Travers , but he the horse comes first .

[Rex Phinney]

yeah I do Mr 12 question marks. Zayat has his chest puffed out about owning a TC horse. He's not going to tarnish AP's momentum and image by slow playing him until the BCC. There is far less money to be made against the horses he has flogged already than there is against fresh, older horses.

How many times has he beaten Texas Red this year?

I'm a California racing fan thru and thru, but the Travers is the place for him. It will be the best field of 3yo he has faced since Derby Day. If he wants to race older (which I don't think they really do) they can do the Awesome Again on home soil before the BC

[NY BRED]

Purse was bumped for AP already, so you're wrong right off the bat.

WHAT I MEANT TO SAY, IS I KNOW THE PURSE WAS BUMPED
AS IT WAS IN THE HASKELL;

THAT SAID, WHEN MR Z. STATES HE'S LIKE TO RUN IN THE TRAVERS,
I 'M TAKING THE STATEMENT HE'S TELLING NYRA TO RAISE THE ANTE.

HE OBVIOUSLY HAS THE TB OF THE YEAR, BUT THIS WHOLE
SCENARIO SHOULD HAVE ENDED THE DAY AP WAS SENT TO CA.

[Redboard]

WHAT I MEANT TO SAY, IS I KNOW THE PURSE WAS BUMPED
AS IT WAS IN THE HASKELL;

THAT SAID, WHEN MR Z. STATES HE'S LIKE TO RUN IN THE TRAVERS,
I 'M TAKING THE STATEMENT HE'S TELLING NYRA TO RAISE THE ANTE.

HE OBVIOUSLY HAS THE TB OF THE YEAR, BUT THIS WHOLE
SCENARIO SHOULD HAVE ENDED THE DAY AP WAS SENT TO CA.

The fact that he was shipped back to CA, isn't unusual. He did the same thing with Bayern last year.
Although I still think it's going to be the PA derby. Baffert's comments about "timing" and his recent statements about PA needing more recoverring time (I'm paraphrasing) indicates to me that he's only going to run one race before the BCC. Besides,

[Donttellmeshowme]

Nothing to prove against 3 yr olds he needs to run against older horses once before the Breeders Cup and see where he stands.

[Spiderman]

Nothing to prove against 3 yr olds he needs to run against older horses once before the Breeders Cup and see where he stands.

BC Classic is at Keeneland. Best scenario is to run prep at Keeneland and stay there for Classic.

[Vinnie]

If AP is in the condition and at the fitness level that he just recently displayed, I truly doubt that there is a horse currently on the planet young or old that can run with him. AP is in a league all his own right now and it is indeed an Awesome thing to behold. I believe that it was CJ that mentioned it before. What time could he have actually run at the Haskell if he had just simply ran the rest of the race through the wire? It simply boggles the mind!!! :) b

What an incredible horse... :)

[NY BRED]

If AP is in the condition and at the fitness level that he just
What an incredible horse... :)

We are on the same page, what has me p/o'd is the drama
of where is superstar goes next, or if he races again prior
to the Breeders Cup.

[dilanesp]

If AP is in the condition and at the fitness level that he just recently displayed, I truly doubt that there is a horse currently on the planet young or old that can run with him. AP is in a league all his own right now and it is indeed an Awesome thing to behold. I believe that it was CJ that mentioned it before. What time could he have actually run at the Haskell if he had just simply ran the rest of the race through the wire? It simply boggles the mind!!! :) b

What an incredible horse... :)

I would be careful about sentiments like this. All horses eventually get beat if you run them enough. Records without a lot of losses are often produced by not running the horse against the best competition, and good horses materialize when the star runs enough.

Two of the absolute classic examples of this involve Triple Crown winners. Secretariat eventually ran into Prove Out. I'm not as bullish on Prove Out as some people were, but he clearly got very good and was able to rattle off the second fastest 1 1/2 miles on dirt in history and smoke Secretariat in the Woodward. That happened because Secretariat ran in enough races, and because he caught a horse peaking at the right time.

Citation presents another example of this. He won 16 races in a row, 15 at age 3, including the Triple Crown. And he came back at age 5 and ran world record times while carrying huge weight assignments and racing against the best handicap horses.

Unfortunately, in four of those races at age 5, three of which were run in record time, he finished second. He ran into Noor, who for a period in the spring of 1950, may have been the fastest handicap horse in American history.

The point is, you don't know if there's a Noor or a Prove Out out there until it happens. And it can't happen unless American Pharoah runs in enough races. So you can't say "no one can touch him". Certainly it's hard to see anyone beating him last Saturday at Monmouth. But the only way we can know if no one can touch him is if Zayat and Baffert run him often enough and against enough fields so we can find out.

[Vinnie]

Point well taken dilanesp:

You make some very cogent points and observations.

[Tor Ekman]

It'll be a shame for the sport (and also open them up to huge Monday morning QB'ing), but what chance they pass on running the Travers, Parx or any interim race and elect to just train him up to the BCC?

[iceknight]

How many times has he beaten Texas Red this year?

I'm a California racing fan thru and thru, but the Travers is the place for him. It will be the best field of 3yo he has faced since Derby Day. If he wants to race older (which I don't think they really do) they can do the Awesome Again on home soil before the BC You mean the horse that (possibly) ducked the Haskell but instead went to a 4 horse field Jim Dandy? Texas Red is no Arazi.

[castaway01]

It'll be a shame for the sport (and also open them up to huge Monday morning QB'ing), but what chance they pass on running the Travers, Parx or any interim race and elect to just train him up to the BCC?

It's possible, but only if the horse suddenly had a downturn in health. If AP stays healthy, he will run at least once, possibly twice before the Classic.

[Stillriledup]

I would be careful about sentiments like this. All horses eventually get beat if you run them enough. Records without a lot of losses are often produced by not running the horse against the best competition, and good horses materialize when the star runs enough.

Two of the absolute classic examples of this involve Triple Crown winners. Secretariat eventually ran into Prove Out. I'm not as bullish on Prove Out as some people were, but he clearly got very good and was able to rattle off the second fastest 1 1/2 miles on dirt in history and smoke Secretariat in the Woodward. That happened because Secretariat ran in enough races, and because he caught a horse peaking at the right time.

Citation presents another example of this. He won 16 races in a row, 15 at age 3, including the Triple Crown. And he came back at age 5 and ran world record times while carrying huge weight assignments and racing against the best handicap horses.

Unfortunately, in four of those races at age 5, three of which were run in record time, he finished second. He ran into Noor, who for a period in the spring of 1950, may have been the fastest handicap horse in American history.

The point is, you don't know if there's a Noor or a Prove Out out there until it happens. And it can't happen unless American Pharoah runs in enough races. So you can't say "no one can touch him". Certainly it's hard to see anyone beating him last Saturday at Monmouth. But the only way we can know if no one can touch him is if Zayat and Baffert run him often enough and against enough fields so we can find out.

But if AP needs to be diminished in some way to get beat he's not really the AP we 'know and love'. I don't know how great he is in the pantheon of all time greats, but currently he's showing that if he brings his A race, they can't touch him.

[onefast99]

LET'S SEE, MR. Z. SAYS READY TO GO, BAFFERT STATES 'NOT SO FAST"

AP SHIPPED BACK TO CA, AND NOW HE RETURNS TO THE SPA?

INMHO, IF THIS CREW EXPECTED TO RUN AT THE SPA, THEY WOULD HAVE
STAYED IN NJ, BE SHIPPING NOW TO THE SPA TO BREEZE AP
AND SCHOOL HIM IN THE PADDOCK,ETC..

I SOMEHOW FEEL THE DELAY INVOLVES A DEMAND OF A BUMP IN THE
PURSE WHICH I BELIEVE NYRA WOULD DECLINE,

THEREFORE, IF AP ISN'T ENTERED, THE 50K ATTENDANCE CAP
ON AUGUST 29TH IS REALISTIC.

HOPING FOR CLOSURE ON THIS MATTER THIS WEEK..
His training center is in Ca, he has been coast to coast a few times and it hasn't affected his performance one bit. He shipped in 4 days prior to the Haskell. He also vanned from Del Mar to the shipper on 7-29 which was about 95 miles away and he went from Ca to Lexington Ky then onto Atlantic City Airport. He then was vanned about 70 miles to MP. He is quite the traveler!

[dilanesp]

But if AP needs to be diminished in some way to get beat he's not really the AP we 'know and love'. I don't know how great he is in the pantheon of all time greats, but currently he's showing that if he brings his A race, they can't touch him.

Do we not know and love Citation and Secretariat?

Getting beat isn't the end of the world. Getting beat is what happens when you have a long career and run against a lot of horses.

I've said this before, but I really don't worship undefeated records. You run them often enough, they all eventually get beat. But I tend to think that the career record of a Citation, even with those losses at ages 5 and 6, is much more impressive than the career record of Personal Ensign, averaging 4 starts a season. It doesn't prove anything when you don't run them. And we remember Citation for all the races he DID win, including 16 in a row and a Triple Crown, even though he ran into Noor at age 5.

[thaskalos]

Do we not know and love Citation and Secretariat?

Getting beat isn't the end of the world. Getting beat is what happens when you have a long career and run against a lot of horses.

I've said this before, but I really don't worship undefeated records. You run them often enough, they all eventually get beat. But I tend to think that the career record of a Citation, even with those losses at ages 5 and 6, is much more impressive than the career record of Personal Ensign, averaging 4 starts a season. It doesn't prove anything when you don't run them. And we remember Citation for all the races he DID win, including 16 in a row and a Triple Crown, even though he ran into Noor at age 5.

This is true...but how many times should a horse beat the best horses in the game in order to avoid having his career described as "sheltered"? If American Pharoah wins the BC Classic...will it really matter if he didn't run against his elders more than once? Won't beating the best horses in the game once say enough about his quality...and his "legacy" in the game?

I am reminded of the criticism that Zenyatta faced for the "sheltered campaign" that she raced through. "The mare should have run against the males more"...the "experts" said. Nevermind that she put up heroic efforts in two BC Classics...an unheard of phenomenon for a mare.

Sometimes we ask too much of these horses...

[Robert Fischer]

Our alien overlords just revealed their time machine and brought Man O War and Secretariat. A clone of Baffert with a copy of Baffert's knowledge is supplementing, medicating, and training them for a best of 7 series.
So long as they stay healthy, we'll finally find out.

[Thebigguy]

Our alien overlords just revealed their time machine and brought Man O War and Secretariat. A clone of Baffert with a copy of Baffert's knowledge is supplementing, medicating, and training them for a best of 7 series.
So long as they stay healthy, we'll finally find out.

Jokes on you. AP is 100% running in the Tracers.

[Robert Fischer]

your sarcasm detector is dangerously malfunctioning...

[Stillriledup]

Do we not know and love Citation and Secretariat?

Getting beat isn't the end of the world. Getting beat is what happens when you have a long career and run against a lot of horses.

I've said this before, but I really don't worship undefeated records. You run them often enough, they all eventually get beat. But I tend to think that the career record of a Citation, even with those losses at ages 5 and 6, is much more impressive than the career record of Personal Ensign, averaging 4 starts a season. It doesn't prove anything when you don't run them. And we remember Citation for all the races he DID win, including 16 in a row and a Triple Crown, even though he ran into Noor at age 5.

We know them and love them, but when they fired their best shot, nobody was beating them.

[whodoyoulike]

This is true...but how many times should a horse beat the best horses in the game in order to avoid having his career described as "sheltered"? If American Pharoah wins the BC Classic...will it really matter if he didn't run against his elders more than once? Won't beating the best horses in the game once say enough about his quality...and his "legacy" in the game?

I am reminded of the criticism that Zenyatta faced for the "sheltered campaign" that she raced through. "The mare should have run against the males more"...the "experts" said. Nevermind that she put up heroic efforts in two BC Classics...an unheard of phenomenon for a mare.

Sometimes we ask too much of these horses...

People will probably criticize AP that he didn't face SB, CC, Bayern, Tonalist and Hop etc., in the same race.

[dilanesp]

People will probably criticize AP that he didn't face SB, CC, Bayern, Tonalist and Hop etc., in the same race.

The more AP runs, the less he gets criticized.

[EMD4ME]

This is true...but how many times should a horse beat the best horses in the game in order to avoid having his career described as "sheltered"? If American Pharoah wins the BC Classic...will it really matter if he didn't run against his elders more than once? Won't beating the best horses in the game once say enough about his quality...and his "legacy" in the game?

I am reminded of the criticism that Zenyatta faced for the "sheltered campaign" that she raced through. "The mare should have run against the males more"...the "experts" said. Nevermind that she put up heroic efforts in two BC Classics...an unheard of phenomenon for a mare.

Sometimes we ask too much of these horses...

If he dominates in his 1 run against older, it eliminates many doubters.

If he wins all out desperately in an easy trip, in my opinion, he should've ran against older more than once as it would eliminate the doubters.

[thespaah]

LET'S SEE, MR. Z. SAYS READY TO GO, BAFFERT STATES 'NOT SO FAST"

AP SHIPPED BACK TO CA, AND NOW HE RETURNS TO THE SPA?

INMHO, IF THIS CREW EXPECTED TO RUN AT THE SPA, THEY WOULD HAVE
STAYED IN NJ, BE SHIPPING NOW TO THE SPA TO BREEZE AP
AND SCHOOL HIM IN THE PADDOCK,ETC..

I SOMEHOW FEEL THE DELAY INVOLVES A DEMAND OF A BUMP IN THE
PURSE WHICH I BELIEVE NYRA WOULD DECLINE,

THEREFORE, IF AP ISN'T ENTERED, THE 50K ATTENDANCE CAP
ON AUGUST 29TH IS REALISTIC.

HOPING FOR CLOSURE ON THIS MATTER THIS WEEK..
http://www.troyrecord.com/sports/20150801/travers-purse-raised-to-16-million-if-american-pharoah-races
The purse bump was announced on Aug 1st

[thespaah]

BC Classic is at Keeneland. Best scenario is to run prep at Keeneland and stay there for Classic.
Just looked at Keeneland's Stakes Condition book for the 2015 fall meet.
There are no available stakes races on dirt for 3yo and up

[Spiderman]

Just looked at Keeneland's Stakes Condition book for the 2015 fall meet.
There are no available stakes races on dirt for 3yo and up

Keeneland could write a race for AP. If not, there is a graded stake at Santa Anita, end of September. Mucho Macho Man used that race as prep for BC Classic bid, about 2-years ago.

[dilanesp]

Just looked at Keeneland's Stakes Condition book for the 2015 fall meet.
There are no available stakes races on dirt for 3yo and up

Given they are hosting the BC, that's really dumb, by the way.

[cj]

Given they are hosting the BC, that's really dumb, by the way.

Don't think they have ever had one. Isn't the Fayette usually run the same weekend as the BC?

[NY BRED]

I ALREADY RSPONDED TO THIS THOUGHT, THOUGHT EARLY ON THAT
2,000,000 PLUSE EXPENSES MIGHT SEAL THE DEAL.

THAT SAID, IF THE PURSE SIZE IS IRRELEVANT, WHY NOT
JUST SAY WE ARE STAYING HOME.
NO DISGRACE IN DECLINING THE TRAVERS, AND BTW, I'M HOPING THAT
WILL BE THE DECISION.

THIS AMAZING HORSE HAS ALREADY PROVEN HE IS BEYOND SPECIAL
WITH HIS WINNING STREAK COMPILED AT DIFFERENT RACKS,SURFACES AND CONFIGURATION.

NO REASON TO COMPETE IN THE SPA WHEN THE BC SHOULD BE THE
MAIN TARGET.

[horses4courses]

:1: to :9:

Like the Haskell.......2.20 2.10 2.10

[thespaah]

Given they are hosting the BC, that's really dumb, by the way.
HUH?.....I was answering a question from another poster...Is there a problem here?

[thespaah]

Keeneland could write a race for AP. If not, there is a graded stake at Santa Anita, end of September. Mucho Macho Man used that race as prep for BC Classic bid, about 2-years ago.
Sure.. But for how much? Is the track Sec'y going to write an overnight stake for half a million bucks?
I don't see Baffert or Zayat risking the Colt's well being for a relatively small amount of money...
Even though it has been reported that AP "ships well", I cannot see the logic in skipping a premier race like the Travers for something "off the radar"....JMHO....

[dilanesp]

HUH?.....I was answering a question from another poster...Is there a problem here?

Not you. Keeneland is really dumb not to have a prep race for the Classic.

[andtheyreoff]

Not you. Keeneland is really dumb not to have a prep race for the Classic.

The Homecoming Classic is run at Churchill the week before Keeneland opens.

[Paseana]

Not you. Keeneland is really dumb not to have a prep race for the Classic.

I don't think Keeneland has ever had a Breeders Cup Classic prep (2 turn 3&up main track), certainly not at the GI level.

The Keeneland Fall Meeting (in terms of GI races) has always been more geared to the distaffers. They have 6 GI races in the first 2 weeks of the meet this fall, and 4 of them (Alcibiades, Spinster, First Lady, & QEII) are restricted to females. Of the other 2, one is restricted to 2yos (Futurity), and the other one (Shadwell Turf Mile) is the only one of the 6 that is open, and that one is targeted at specialists for the distance and surface.

After 30 years of the Breeders Cup, you would think that Keeneland, with their prime Fall meeting, would have worked to cultivate an open main-track race for 3&up at at least 9 furlongs. I just don't get how they haven't done that.

[dilanesp]

The Homecoming Classic is run at Churchill the week before Keeneland opens.

Don't you think someone might want a race over the Keeneland track as a prep?

[Fager Fan]

Not you. Keeneland is really dumb not to have a prep race for the Classic.

They've never had a Classic prep. They can't just create one now. It takes years to get graded status, and no contender is going to bypass the JCGC and other prestigious races for an ungraded race, and if the top horses don't run there, then they can't get graded status.

[Fager Fan]

Don't you think someone might want a race over the Keeneland track as a prep?

PS: What of the times the BC is held at Churchill? There's no Classic prep there either. Nor is there one at Monmouth or Gulfstream or many other tracks. The only ones who really have big Classic preps are Santa Anita and Belmont due to their racing calendar and race histories providing them with such with the way the BC falls on the calendar.

The big preps that Keeneland has always offered are the Spinster (Distaff),
Shadwell Turf Mile (Mile), and Alcibiades (Juv Fillies). They also have the Breeders' Futurity (Juv) and First Lady (F&M turf).

[dilanesp]

They've never had a Classic prep. They can't just create one now. It takes years to get graded status, and no contender is going to bypass the JCGC and other prestigious races for an ungraded race, and if the top horses don't run there, then they can't get graded status.

That's silly. It's not about graded status. If you put up $400,000 or so, people will run because it is a race over the track. Numerous BC winners have won the classic after a race over the track, including St. Liam, Pleasantly Perfect, Mucho Macho Man, and Cigar.

(As for your other point, Gulfstream and Monmouth are different-- you can't do this if you have no fall meeting outside of the BC. But Keeneland does. They are idiots not to card a classic prep.)

[Fager Fan]

That's silly. It's not about graded status. If you put up $400,000 or so, people will run because it is a race over the track. Numerous BC winners have won the classic after a race over the track, including St. Liam, Pleasantly Perfect, Mucho Macho Man, and Cigar.

(As for your other point, Gulfstream and Monmouth are different-- you can't do this if you have no fall meeting outside of the BC. But Keeneland does. They are idiots not to card a classic prep.)

If you say so. If I have a top horse, I'm not bypassing a prestigious G1 to run in an ungraded stakes at KEE. No way, no how. Now I guess they can card one in hopes that 10 years down the road they'll get enough decent horses to run in it to start up the graded scale but it's not going to help them this year.

[dilanesp]

If you say so. If I have a top horse, I'm not bypassing a prestigious G1 to run in an ungraded stakes at KEE. No way, no how. Now I guess they can card one in hopes that 10 years down the road they'll get enough decent horses to run in it to start up the graded scale but it's not going to help them this year.

One big thing you need to realize is nothing is prestigious anymore.

The Jockey Club Gold Cup isn't prestigious anymore. The Awesome Again (nee Goodwood) never was prestigious. Bayern prepped last year in the Pennsylvania Derby. Think that's prestigious?

There's the Breeders' Cup and the Triple Crown. Nothing else is prestigious. Anything that will help a horse win a BC race will be welcomed by trainers.

[Fager Fan]

One big thing you need to realize is nothing is prestigious anymore.

The Jockey Club Gold Cup isn't prestigious anymore. The Awesome Again (nee Goodwood) never was prestigious. Bayern prepped last year in the Pennsylvania Derby. Think that's prestigious?

There's the Breeders' Cup and the Triple Crown. Nothing else is prestigious. Anything that will help a horse win a BC race will be welcomed by trainers.

You're wrong. Those races are prestigious and adding those G1s to their resumes are worth millions of dollars in stallion value in many cases. An ungraded stakes is worth zero in stallion value.

Maybe you have some wild idea that prepping over the same surface as the upcoming BC means the world to most trainers and owners, but the fact is that it doesn't mean even Pluto to most.

I've never heard a single complaint about there being no BC preps at Churchill. I've never heard for that matter a single complaint about there being no KY Derby prep at Churchill. You might consider that you think it far more important than others.

[dilanesp]

You're wrong. Those races are prestigious and adding those G1s to their resumes are worth millions of dollars in stallion value in many cases. An ungraded stakes is worth zero in stallion value.

Maybe you have some wild idea that prepping over the same surface as the upcoming BC means the world to most trainers and owners, but the fact is that it doesn't mean even Pluto to most.

I've never heard a single complaint about there being no BC preps at Churchill. I've never heard for that matter a single complaint about there being no KY Derby prep at Churchill. You might consider that you think it far more important than others.

Breeders aren't stupid. Winning a graded prep race over a bad field is worth very little. A well bred horse will have a good stud fee with even modest success. Poorly bred horses never start out with high stud fees even with graded wins.

Graded wins may look good in advertising; but they don't have the talismanic effect on stud fees you think they do.

[Stillriledup]

PS: What of the times the BC is held at Churchill? There's no Classic prep there either. Nor is there one at Monmouth or Gulfstream or many other tracks. The only ones who really have big Classic preps are Santa Anita and Belmont due to their racing calendar and race histories providing them with such with the way the BC falls on the calendar.

The big preps that Keeneland has always offered are the Spinster (Distaff),
Shadwell Turf Mile (Mile), and Alcibiades (Juv Fillies). They also have the Breeders' Futurity (Juv) and First Lady (F&M turf).

AP needs an easy race before the BC more than he needs a hard effort w graded status.

[Fager Fan]

Breeders aren't stupid. Winning a graded prep race over a bad field is worth very little. A well bred horse will have a good stud fee with even modest success. Poorly bred horses never start out with high stud fees even with graded wins.

Graded wins may look good in advertising; but they don't have the talismanic effect on stud fees you think they do.

It definitely ups the stud fee and what a farm will pay for your horse, and the JCGC won't be a bad field.

But back to the subject which is that you said repeatedly that KEE is "stupid" to not have a prep for the Classic. Note how you're the only one calling for this prep. Not a single trainer or owner has done so. The experts don't think it's an issue or that KEE is "stupid."