View Full Version : Nyra Caps Travers crowd 50,000
Kash$
08-06-2015, 12:16 PM
Guessing American Pharoah will be showing up?
RacingFan1992
08-06-2015, 12:18 PM
What is up with all the capping?
Built in excuse? :rolleyes:
The cap was announced before the meet I believe. OTM Al pointed this out too me a few weeks ago.
Robert Fischer
08-06-2015, 01:43 PM
How does 50k compare with their capacity?
Can Saratoga comfortably entertain 70,000 patrons, or is 50k a very reasonable limit?
How does 50k compare with their capacity?
Can Saratoga comfortably entertain 70,000 patrons, or is 50k a very reasonable limit?
50k is very reasonable IMO. 70k would be unbearable.
PaceAdvantage
08-06-2015, 01:53 PM
Caps on attendance must be further proof that racing is dead... :lol:
wisconsin
08-06-2015, 01:55 PM
Caps on attendance must be further proof that racing is dead... :lol:
Duffle bag giveaway days always brought crowds over 50k, when I was there, it was 54k, and it was easily bearable.
Duffle bag giveaway days always brought crowds over 50k, when I was there, it was 54k, and it was easily bearable.
But of course that crowds weren't really that big, were they? #spinners
Stillriledup
08-06-2015, 02:13 PM
Caps on attendance must be further proof that racing is dead... :lol:
Racing is dead if you don't count boutique meets and special events. Those once a year people aren't in the trenches on rainy Tuesdays with a blah card of 8 races.
DeltaLover
08-06-2015, 02:27 PM
Racing is dead if you don't count boutique meets and special events. Those once a year people aren't in the trenches on rainy Tuesdays with a blah card of 8 races.
Same applies to all sports.. Boutique meets is all that horse racing is about...
Who (except a few degens) will give a dam about a Tuesday MCL 5K at Mountaineer?
Horse racing is far from been dead, something that it will probably never happen....
thaskalos
08-06-2015, 02:53 PM
Same applies to all sports.. Boutique meets is all that horse racing is about...
Who (except a few degens) will give a dam about a Tuesday MCL 5K at Mountaineer?
Horse racing is far from been dead, something that it will probably never happen....
You say that the same applies to all sports...but that isn't true. The other sports have secured TV money, to make up for the sagging attendance of their non-competitive teams. Horse racing gets no TV money...and there aren't that many racing fans around to make weekend attendance a feasible way of really supporting this sport. Horse racing depends on the Tuesday warriors for its survival. In fact...the weekday warrior, addicted though he may be, is the game's most prized commodity.
You would see how dead horse racing really is...if the casino money wasn't around. The game is being kept alive by a process which can be compared to a government handout...but people forget that. The accurate picture of the current "condition" of the game will reveal itself when this handout comes to an end.
DeltaLover
08-06-2015, 03:00 PM
You say that the same applies to all sports...but that isn't true. The other sports have secured TV money, to make up for the sagging attendance of their non-competitive teams. Horse racing gets no TV money...and there aren't that many racing fans around to make weekend attendance a feasible way of really supporting this sport. Horse racing depends on the Tuesday warriors for it's survival. In fact...the weekday warrior, addicted though he may be, is the game's most prized commodity.
You would see how dead horse racing really is...if the casino money wasn't around. The game is being kept alive by a process which can be compared to a government handout...but people forget that. The accurate picture of the current "condition" of the game will reveal itself when this handout comes to an end.
The game needs everyone, including the degens and the casual fans as well...
Horse racing does not need the casino money for its survival and prosperity and whoever believes so, needs to re-evaluate the situation...
What is needed is much less and high quality racing. Letting the bullrings to go out of business will elevate the game in any way you see it, including transparency, national attention, huge betting pools, better coverage etc..
castaway01
08-06-2015, 03:04 PM
You say that the same applies to all sports...but that isn't true. The other sports have secured TV money, to make up for the sagging attendance of their non-competitive teams. Horse racing gets no TV money...and there aren't that many racing fans around to make weekend attendance a feasible way of really supporting this sport. Horse racing depends on the Tuesday warriors for its survival. In fact...the weekday warrior, addicted though he may be, is the game's most prized commodity.
You would see how dead horse racing really is...if the casino money wasn't around. The game is being kept alive by a process which can be compared to a government handout...but people forget that. The accurate picture of the current "condition" of the game will reveal itself when this handout comes to an end.
A ray of sunshine, as always.
thaskalos
08-06-2015, 03:10 PM
A ray of sunshine, as always.
The truth, my friend. Only the truth.
thaskalos
08-06-2015, 03:21 PM
The game needs everyone, including the degens and the casual fans as well...
Horse racing does not need the casino money for its survival and prosperity and whoever believes so, needs to re-evaluate the situation...
What is needed is much less and high quality racing. Letting the bullrings to go out of business will elevate the game in any way you see it, including transparency, national attention, huge betting pools, better coverage etc..
YOU are the one who needs to do the "re-evaluation". You keep offering "solutions" to reverse the fortunes of this game...without realizing that these changes that you propose can never become implemented...simply because there is no true "leadership" out there to act in the way that true leaderships act. When we say "horse racing industry", then we speak in error...because this game is not a unified "industry". It's just a bunch of individual, greedy and stubborn entities...who are fighting among themselves for the biggest piece of the pie.
A ship with no competent man on the steering wheel will hit the rocks...the only question is, when.
rastajenk
08-06-2015, 03:29 PM
It's just a bunch of individual, greedy and stubborn entities...who are fighting among themselves for the biggest piece of the pie.That describes most "industries", does it not? What industry does that not describe? Most of the time when individual components of an industry cooperate too closely, it's called collusion, and is generally frowned upon.
thaskalos
08-06-2015, 03:37 PM
That describes most "industries", does it not? What industry does that not describe? Most of the time when individual components of an industry cooperate too closely, it's called collusion, and is generally frowned upon.
No. The other industries actually have people who hold the reins, and make the decisions. In this "industry", it's every man for himself...and then the "leaders" point the accusing finger at one another, when things go wrong.
DeltaLover
08-06-2015, 03:41 PM
A ship with no competent man on the steering wheel will hit the rocks...the only question is, when.
Don't hold your breath...
DeltaLover
08-06-2015, 03:43 PM
No. The other industries actually have people who hold the reins, and make the decisions. In this "industry", it's every man for himself...and then the "leaders" point the accusing finger at one another, when things go wrong.
It is what it is, Thask and I think that it is the best form of gambling and I am very happy to be part of it...
As far as yourself, you sound a little frustrated about horse racing, maybe its time to try something different?
thaskalos
08-06-2015, 03:47 PM
It is what it is, Thask and I think that it is the best form of gambling and I am very happy to be part of it...
As far as yourself, you sound a little frustrated about horse racing, maybe its time to try something different?
When I have a need for a career counselor...I'll keep you in mind.
thaskalos
08-06-2015, 03:50 PM
Don't hold your breath...
And to think that you were the one preaching to me about "rhetorical arguments", in that other thread. :ThmbUp:
rastajenk
08-06-2015, 03:58 PM
No. The other industries actually have people who hold the reins, and make the decisions. I'll try again: name one. Is there a Steelmaking Czar that make all the decisions? One Carmaker who calls the shots? A Commissioner of Hotels and Hospitalities? Besides trade associations and lobbying groups (racing has those, too), what kind of Industrial Power are you referring to?
DeltaLover
08-06-2015, 04:00 PM
And to think that you were the one preaching to me about "rhetorical arguments", in that other thread. :ThmbUp:
So, you insist in your predictions about the death of horse racing?
I am sure that your prediction will have the same outcome like your opinion about the chance of having a Triple Crown Winner this year :)
DeltaLover
08-06-2015, 04:01 PM
When I have a need for a career counselor...I'll keep you in mind.
If I can help, I will be more than glad to...
thaskalos
08-06-2015, 04:09 PM
I'll try again: name one. Is there a Steelmaking Czar that make all the decisions? One Carmaker who calls the shots? A Commissioner of Hotels and Hospitalities? Besides trade associations and lobbying groups (racing has those, too), what kind of Industrial Power are you referring to?
Stop playing with words. You know what I am talking about. There is no need for a 'czar". A "board of directors" will suffice. Anything is better than having the game being held hostage by the horsemen.
Stillriledup
08-06-2015, 04:12 PM
Stop playing with words. You know what I am talking about. There is no need for a 'czar". A "board of directors" will suffice. Anything is better than having the game being held hostage by the horsemen.
Thank you. I can't make exchange wagers because AC Avila and Jorge 'the genius' Navarro won't let me.
elhelmete
08-06-2015, 04:23 PM
I'll try again: name one. Is there a Steelmaking Czar that make all the decisions? One Carmaker who calls the shots? A Commissioner of Hotels and Hospitalities? Besides trade associations and lobbying groups (racing has those, too), what kind of Industrial Power are you referring to?
Well no, but there are consistent specifications, rules, and regulations that apply to these industries.
Ford and GM are subject to the same set of safety and economy rules, for example. Interesting, for example, that when "California Emissions" became too big of a PITA for the industry we now have 50-state standards.
Steel sold as a particular spec needs to meet that same specifications (strength, heat, composition, etc.) regardless of the mill it comes from.
And for example hotels I'm sure are subject to the same or at least very similar fire safety and construction specs regardless of brand.
But of course companies within each industry are free to tailor their products as they see fit, within the regs.
whodoyoulike
08-06-2015, 04:33 PM
What is up with all the capping?
Could this be some form of marketing ploy?
Sort of "You better get there early or you're going to get shut out".
If AP doesn't show, how many people would've been expected to attend?
Maybe NYRA management has figured out a way to manipulate the "degenerates". They seem to forget the thousands turned away would've spent $000's maybe even hundreds of $000's at the track but, then again tracks don't need the money.
I have to keep reminding myself that this a track management mentality which has been on the mark for so many years with their ideas to promote racing in general. And, I'm not directing this comment to just NYRA management. We'll probably see this occurring at other tracks if the 50k attendance is reached. Or, maybe they are just considering their racing customers.
I've been wrong so many times recently regarding why track mgmt. does what they do. I can see them restricting attendance to 50k but you have to bet at least $1000.
SaratogaSteve
08-06-2015, 05:30 PM
This is fantastic... :lol:
Someone within NYRA actually takes a stance of leadership to ensure folks who do attend have a pleasurable experience, and the assembled "fans" of the sport deliver another ridiculous response, ranging from "the sky is falling", "the sky fell a long time ago", and "NYRA can't manage to save..."
thanks for the laugh today.
OTM Al
08-06-2015, 05:31 PM
The cap was announced before the meet I believe. OTM Al pointed this out too me a few weeks ago.
We did find it listed as 60k though. Not sure where you found the number but mine was unattributed. NYRA had said some time ago they would cap. But I don't recall them officially giving a set number back then.
As for the "record" 50k+ days at Saratoga in the early 2000s, they were as phony as the current attendance numbers that count passes and tickets sold. these days were all giveaway days. Back then they would order 50k or more units and spinning went wild on the popular ones. In the recent past the number of units were cut back to 30k or less. Not sure what they do now but doubt it is much different. There may have been some legit 40k days there, but they have been rare. NYRA announced today that 20k GA tickets remain and all pass holders will be allowed admission. Those passes will keep real attendance probably in the low 40s at best, whatever actually gets announced. BTW actual Belmont attendance was in the low to mid 70s if you want to know how well that one worked.
NorCalGreg
08-06-2015, 06:34 PM
This is fantastic... :lol:
Someone within NYRA actually takes a stance of leadership to ensure folks who do attend have a pleasurable experience, and the assembled "fans" of the sport deliver another ridiculous response, ranging from "the sky is falling", "the sky fell a long time ago", and "NYRA can't manage to save..."
thanks for the laugh today.
Thank YOU for the laugh today, SS :D
whodoyoulike
08-06-2015, 06:40 PM
This is fantastic... :lol:
Someone within NYRA actually takes a stance of leadership to ensure folks who do attend have a pleasurable experience, and the assembled "fans" of the sport deliver another ridiculous response, ranging from "the sky is falling", "the sky fell a long time ago", and "NYRA can't manage to save..."
thanks for the laugh today.
People used to laugh at my ideas and, this was before the internet which may have been the origination of the use of LOL.
dilanesp
08-06-2015, 07:54 PM
I've been at Saratoga when there were more than 50,000 people there. The cap is very sensible (and, of course, also allows NYRA to charge more money to the people they do let in).
OTM Al
08-06-2015, 08:02 PM
Funny that they list capacity as 70,000 on their own website
https://www.nyra.com/saratoga/information/history-saratoga/
I've been at Saratoga when there were more than 50,000 people there. The cap is very sensible (and, of course, also allows NYRA to charge more money to the people they do let in).
Winner winner, chicken dinner.
camourous
08-07-2015, 06:06 AM
My issue with these caps is if they turn away people who are going to wager on the races, but let in the people who will sit in the picnic area and not spend a dime at the windows.
burnsy
08-07-2015, 07:44 AM
Yeah, but the legit 40k days are pretty freakin crowded. OTM is right about those "give away" attendances, they are a complete joke. It was crowded last Saturday for the Jim Dandy. The place is small. I got my pass but get your tickets early.........it will be an absolute zoo unless it rains..........Racing is not dead but trumpeting the fact that they can get 60,000 for a day does not mean its on easy street either. People always take extremes, racing is sort of "limping" along....you can't go by the Derby, two meets in August and a Triple crown winner that will be gone in 4 months. Thask is right, there are tracks that have no business being opened....its a fraud hand out. He's also right about the organization. Its not a commodity, its a sport and every other sport gets TV deals and colludes....that's why they beat the crap out of horse racing. I won't be at Saratoga, I'll be at Yankee stadium tonight. Because of the way the split works, every team in MLB will make a cut off the Yankees tonight, last night they all made a fortune because the Yankees played the Red Sox....can you say rivalry?..................Horse racing? It will never happen like that, they have zero vision, zero leadership and count on days or horses like this to try to "prove" the are "packed to the rafters". Its as bogus as the spinners going through the gate 20 times. There are a bunch of other tracks with crickets chirping........Thask and Delta are both right, but it has to happen first......
Other sporting events have attendance caps. Why is it surprising that a huge event like the Travers would?
Remember, it's not 1975 anymore. You're not shutting anyone out from wagering by having an attendance cap.
Non-issue.
classhandicapper
08-07-2015, 10:17 AM
I like the idea of capping crowds.
It demonstrates that NYRA is not thinking in terms maximizing the short term dollar. It's thinking in terms of maximizing the customer experience and hopefully creating repeat customers for the future.
Some of the really huge crowds can get quite unpleasant for making bets, buying food, and especially for women because of the bathrooms.
That doesn't mean that 50K is the exactly correct number. I have no idea what it is. But I'm sure they'll learn from this assuming AP runs in the race and they pack the place.
Stillriledup
08-07-2015, 12:33 PM
This is the one of the 'super bowl' days of horse racing, the NFL 'caps' the Super Bowl yet nobody seems to have a problem with that.
dilanesp
08-07-2015, 04:22 PM
I like the idea of capping crowds.
It demonstrates that NYRA is not thinking in terms maximizing the short term dollar. It's thinking in terms of maximizing the customer experience and hopefully creating repeat customers for the future.
Some of the really huge crowds can get quite unpleasant for making bets, buying food, and especially for women because of the bathrooms.
That doesn't mean that 50K is the exactly correct number. I have no idea what it is. But I'm sure they'll learn from this assuming AP runs in the race and they pack the place.
Actually capping attendance creates scarcity. It's why Fenway Park generates more revenue than Turner Field.
SaratogaSteve
08-07-2015, 04:27 PM
if you have ever been there on days of >40k, this is a great idea.
castaway01
08-07-2015, 09:33 PM
Actually capping attendance creates scarcity. It's why Fenway Park generates more revenue than Turner Field.
The first sentence is roughly true, but the second sentence couldn't be a worse example...
dilanesp
08-07-2015, 10:32 PM
The first sentence is roughly true, but the second sentence couldn't be a worse example...
Why? In the late 1990's and early 2000's, the Atlanta Braves were in a streak of consecutive division wins. They had one of the consistently best teams in the majors. But they didn't sell out much and had to keep ticket prices low.
Meanwhile, even this year when they are terrible, the Sox almost always sell Fenway out at some of the highest prices in the majors.
This is why they don't build 60,000 seat baseball stadiums anymore. Shrink capacity and you can jack up prices.
classhandicapper
08-10-2015, 03:52 PM
Actually capping attendance creates scarcity. It's why Fenway Park generates more revenue than Turner Field.
It's possible that capping attendance might allow NYRA to raise prices enough to make even more money, but I don't think that's the motive. They've been raising prices independently of capping attendance. The attendance cap is just about the specific case of AP drawing crowds that could cause quality issues.
ronsmac
08-10-2015, 06:12 PM
It's possible that capping attendance might allow NYRA to raise prices enough to make even more money, but I don't think that's the motive. They've been raising prices independently of capping attendance. The attendance cap is just about the specific case of AP drawing crowds that could cause quality issues.If AP shows up, the scalpers will do well.
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