Drug Free Racing Is Only Hope

[pandy]

http://www.kentucky.com/2015/08/03/3971534_drug-free-racing-is-only-hope.html?rh=1

[AndyC]

"The agency would create the Thoroughbred Horseracing Anti-Doping Authority, financed by the industry at no cost to taxpayers....."

Let's see. The tracks don't make money, the horse owners don't make money, so that leaves the players to absorb the cost via higher takeout.

Of course the story line will be that such a change will rejuvenate racing thus enriching everybody allowing for takeout reductions in the future.

[PaceAdvantage]

People need to give their heads a shake if they continue to think a specific horse is going to save racing (first couple lines from the linked article laments the same old tired "savior horse" sentiment).

The ONLY thing that will save racing is that people believe you can actually make money betting on the game in the long run. That's the ONLY thing that has kept the game alive...and the ONLY thing that will continue to keep the game alive.

Zenyatta, one of the most popular race horses in a LONG TIME, had NO long term impact on the sport's overall health. American Pharoah's impact will be quite similar, and perhaps even less...at least Zenyatta stuck around for a few years at her prime.

A drug free sport will ONLY have an impact IF it contributes to fostering the notion that the game can be BEATEN...I don't think it's necessary...but it can't hurt.

[cj]

Last two posts have it right. None of this drug stuff is stopping people from betting. Short fields and high takeout are the deadly combination that is driving bettors away. I'm all for drug free racing, but it won't revive the sport.

[pandy]

People need to give their heads a shake if they continue to think a specific horse is going to save racing (first couple lines from the linked article laments the same old tired "savior horse" sentiment).

The ONLY thing that will save racing is that people believe you can actually make money betting on the game in the long run. That's the ONLY thing that has kept the game alive...and the ONLY thing that will continue to keep the game alive.

Zenyatta, one of the most popular race horses in a LONG TIME, had NO long term impact on the sport's overall health. American Pharoah's impact will be quite similar, and perhaps even less...at least Zenyatta stuck around for a few years at her prime.

A drug free sport will ONLY have an impact IF it contributes to fostering the notion that the game can be BEATEN...I don't think it's necessary...but it can't hurt.


Agree on all counts.

[PaceAdvantage]

The only reason I ever got into the game was because I thought I could make money at it...that it was a puzzle...and if you worked harder and were smarter than the next guy, you could take his money.

That's why people who get into the game and STAY in the game do it...

The publicity of a Zenyatta/American Pharoah WILL garner attention and ATTRACT new folks into the game...no denying that...but the star horse is but a brief flame. A temporary billboard of free advertising.

Low takeout and a perceived fair playing field will do wonders...

[pandy]

Last two posts have it right. None of this drug stuff is stopping people from betting. Short fields and high takeout are the deadly combination that is driving bettors away. I'm all for drug free racing, but it won't revive the sport.


I agree that the takeout is the most important but I'm not sure that drug free racing wouldn't help. Right now there simply aren't enough owners. If you had strict drug rules like they have in Japan, and no lasix, it would be an even playing field which could entice more owners.

[pandy]

The only reason I ever got into the game was because I thought I could make money at it...that it was a puzzle...and if you worked harder and were smarter than the next guy, you could take his money.

That's why people who get into the game and STAY in the game do it...

The publicity of a Zenyatta/American Pharoah WILL garner attention and ATTRACT new folks into the game...no denying that...but the star horse is but a brief flame. A temporary billboard of free advertising.

Low takeout and a perceived fair playing field will do wonders...

I agree. I've always thought that this idea that a great horse will save the game is ridiculous. As you said, Zenyatta raced until she was 7 and yes she was very popular and probably did create some fans, but not enough to make a major impact.

[Grits]

The only reason I ever got into the game was because I thought I could make money at it...that it was a puzzle...and if you worked harder and were smarter than the next guy, you could take his money.

That's why people who get into the game and STAY in the game do it...

The publicity of a Zenyatta/American Pharoah WILL garner attention and ATTRACT new folks into the game...no denying that...but the star horse is but a brief flame. A temporary billboard of free advertising.

Low takeout and a perceived fair playing field will do wonders...

You'll make far more money, long term, in the market.

Of this, I'm sure. :)

[PaceAdvantage]

You'll make far more money, long term, in the market.

Of this, I'm sure. :)Only because there is far more money for the taking... :lol:

[cj]

I agree that the takeout is the most important but I'm not sure that drug free racing wouldn't help. Right now there simply aren't enough owners. If you had strict drug rules like they have in Japan, and no lasix, it would be an even playing field which could entice more owners.

Most owners now are scared to death of a Lasix ban.

[cj]

I agree. I've always thought that this idea that a great horse will save the game is ridiculous. As you said, Zenyatta raced until she was 7 and yes she was very popular and probably did create some fans, but not enough to make a major impact.

She was 6, everyone's always exaggerating Zenyatta! :)

[JimG]

The only real hope or horse racing long term is for track management, horse owners, trainers, etc. to recognize that the gambler is their customer. Then ask the customer what it wants, and try to deliver if it makes sense.

These different factions are a stubborn and self-serving bunch so I do not look for it to happen.

[Tom]

Agree, Jim.
Racing has no clue who the customer is.
I doubt they ever will.

[RacingFan1992]

She was 6, everyone's always exaggerating Zenyatta! :)

I think she caused more harm than good because you have all these super fans some of whom do not know what they are talking about supporting her then they pick fights. I said on one post she was West Coast synthetic runner who ran in sheltered races. WOW! The amount of people who said she would have won if not for this or that, and I should shut up and die. She is a better horse than Secretariat, Man O' War, Blah Blah Blah

[Robert Fischer]

http://www.backcountrybikeandski.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/catbag1.jpg

No sport will ever be drug free again.

[Stillriledup]

Who is drugging and cheating is part of the handicapping process. The problem for horseplayers is not the drugs per se its the ability of insiders, who aren't handicappers, laying money on the drugged horses and essentially raising takeout. Drugs wouldn't matter to the average bettor if racing had insider trading laws that were actually enforced.

[thaskalos]

I think she caused more harm than good because you have all these super fans some of whom do not know what they are talking about supporting her then they pick fights. I said on one post she was West Coast synthetic runner who ran in sheltered races. WOW! The amount of people who said she would have won if not for this or that, and I should shut up and die. She is a better horse than Secretariat, Man O' War, Blah Blah Blah
The only person to ever come on this board and say that Zenyatta was as good as Secretariat was a lunatic who hasn't been seen around here since. But respected members of this board HAVE come on this board, and said that AMERICAN PHAROAH was as good as Secretariat. Did you similarly object to THESE American Pharoah "super fans"?

[thaskalos]

http://www.backcountrybikeandski.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/catbag1.jpg

No sport will ever be drug free again.
Love your images, Robert. :ThmbUp:

[RacingFan1992]

The only person to ever come on this board and say that Zenyatta was as good as Secretariat was a lunatic who hasn't been seen around here since. But respected members of this board HAVE come on this board, and said that AMERICAN PHAROAH was as good as Secretariat. Did you similarly object to THESE American Pharoah "super fans"?

Only the ones who are the fair weather fans. I was a critic of AP. I down right hated Baffert. I thought he was a super star quarter horse trainer who was as cocky as the day is long but I changed that after the time of the Belmont. Also I could not stand all those people who leave messages on her website talking to her as if she is a human or a baby. "Zenny" "Queen Z" Ughh. Can't stand those people.

[thaskalos]

Only the ones who are the fair weather fans. I was a critic of AP. I down right hated Baffert. I thought he was a super star quarter horse trainer who was as cocky as the day is long but I changed that after the time of the Belmont. Also I could not stand all those people who leave messages on her website talking to her as if she is a human or a baby. "Zenny" "Queen Z" Ughh. Can't stand those people.
I was one of those people who fell in love with Zenyatta. Not because she was one of the best-ever horses...because she obviously wasn't at the same level with the truly Greats of this game. But because she was the most UNIQUE.

If we both live to be 120 years old...we will NEVER again see a stretch runner compile such a race record...no matter what the surface or the class-level might be. The stretch runners who like to come from dead last in their races are never as consistent as Zenyatta was...even when they run on grass or poly, which supposedly favor a closer's running style.

She was UNIQUE...that's why I fell in love with her. When I see once-in-a-lifetime events...I can't help but take my hat off. :ThmbUp:

[Stillriledup]

Love your images, Robert. :ThmbUp:

Even though the cats foot is technically inside the bag? :D

[AndyC]

I think she caused more harm than good because you have all these super fans some of whom do not know what they are talking about supporting her then they pick fights. I said on one post she was West Coast synthetic runner who ran in sheltered races. WOW! The amount of people who said she would have won if not for this or that, and I should shut up and die. She is a better horse than Secretariat, Man O' War, Blah Blah Blah

Who cares what they said or think? The key is to have people interested and talking. If everybody had the same opinion you wouldn't even have horse races.

[AndyC]

Only the ones who are the fair weather fans. I was a critic of AP. I down right hated Baffert. I thought he was a super star quarter horse trainer who was as cocky as the day is long but I changed that after the time of the Belmont. Also I could not stand all those people who leave messages on her website talking to her as if she is a human or a baby. "Zenny" "Queen Z" Ughh. Can't stand those people.

One great thing about racing is that you can express your opinions at the betting window.

[horses4courses]

Has anyone joined, or heard of, WHOA ?

http://www.waterhayoatsalliance.com/join.shtml

[speculus]

The ONLY solution?

Mark my signature. It has not changed since the day I joined this board.

-speculus

[pandy]

Most owners now are scared to death of a Lasix ban.

There were more horses when there wasn't lasix here. Lasix increases the cost of owning horses, the vets have to get paid and of course the drug isn't cheap.

[CosmicWon]

Has anyone joined, or heard of, WHOA ?

http://www.waterhayoatsalliance.com/join.shtml


No and Yes. It's a club of old, rich white guys who have been playing this old song and dance for 40yrs and still can't get anything done. Back in the 50s the threat of Federal intervention is what got them thinking about illicit drugs in racehorses, now that same tribe is looking to the Feds for help.

They could all just tell their trainers, "hey, don't run any of my horses on salix or else you're fired" but the don't. Likewise they could ban horses who've raced on Rx from the stud book (such as they do in Germany) but they don't have the stones or wherewithal to do that either. It's all about the distraction...

Re: takeout--read this PDF from the 1974 JC Roundtable starting bottom of pg 10 of the transcript (pg 9 of the PDF) for an illuminating discussion about the benefits of takeout. You'll like it, especially if you support HANA http://www.jockeyclub.com/roundtable/pdf/roundtable_74.pdf

[cj]

There were more horses when there wasn't lasix here. Lasix increases the cost of owning horses, the vets have to get paid and of course the drug isn't cheap.

I agree. But trust me, you ask most owners and trainers, and the vast majority are for lasix.

[horses4courses]

40 years???
Whoa............ ;)

No and Yes. It's a club of old, rich white guys who have been playing this old song and dance for 40yrs and still can't get anything done. Back in the 50s the threat of Federal intervention is what got them thinking about illicit drugs in racehorses, now that same tribe is looking to the Feds for help.

They could all just tell their trainers, "hey, don't run any of my horses on salix or else you're fired" but the don't. Likewise they could ban horses who've raced on Rx from the stud book (such as they do in Germany) but they don't have the stones or wherewithal to do that either. It's all about the distraction...

Re: takeout--read this PDF from the 1974 JC Roundtable starting bottom of pg 10 of the transcript (pg 9 of the PDF) for an illuminating discussion about the benefits of takeout. You'll like it, especially if you support HANA http://www.jockeyclub.com/roundtable/pdf/roundtable_74.pdf

[pandy]

I still think that drug free, and lasix free racing, would eventually increase horse ownership and help the sport. And it's not difficult to achieve. All they'd have to do is ban lasix and put in strict drug rules and enforcement like they have in Japan. Just recreate their model.

I'm not sure that the use of lasix isn't directly tied to profits. The owners may have been duped. By putting all thoroughbred and harness horses in North American on lasix, the racing industry put millions of dollars of additional profit into the pharmaceutical industry and veterinarian's also benefited immensely. Doctor's, vets in this case, always push drugs because they make more money when they put clients on drugs.

I'm very suspicious of the way the medical community works with Big Pharma and the drugs that are sold to humans. Millions of Americans are taking non-essential drugs that have serious side effects and these drugs, like Viagra, birth control pills, and many others, are huge money makers for the medical/pharmaceutical industry because they create illnesses which then lead to more drug sales, and more medical care. The public has been duped and so has the horse racing industry.

[lamboguy]

There were more horses when there wasn't lasix here. Lasix increases the cost of owning horses, the vets have to get paid and of course the drug isn't cheap.
i agree with your post. lasix cost $15 per race.

in this day and age you almost have to use the lasix otherwise you can't win. most horses DO run faster on it.

[rastajenk]

Pandy, you've mentioned Japan a couple of times. Do you know how horse ownership works over there? I don't, so I'm asking; in other words, up front I want to say I'm not trying to be a smart-aleck know-it-all, but I have some questions:

When you own a horse in Japan, do you have control over when it races? Can you hire and fire trainers at will? If it needs a break, can you take it to your farm for a few months? Can you train off a farm? Do they even have enough room for horse farms?

Can you choose the level at which you race, or does the racing association do that? How many tracks are there to choose from; can you ship from one to another looking for your best spot? Can you start small and end up in Dubai, like California Chrome's owners did?

I think the cultures are so different as to make American-to-Asian horse racing comparisons nearly worthless, but as I said at the top, I'm open to learning I could be wrong. But I have a feeling the Asian way of ownership wouldn't be very appealing to most potential American owners, regardless of the drug issues.

[pandy]

The only thing I know is what I've read about their strict drug rules and the outstanding racing and training facilities. But we wouldn't need to adopt their rules of ownership, just the drug rules, which work. Their horses race more often and break down far less than ours.

Of course, our horses raced more often and broke down less than they do now when we didn't use lasix.

[rastajenk]

Well, you connected the drug and ownership dots in post #8 in this thread; that's why I'm suggesting it's probably more complicated than that.

Are we sure horse broke down less often in the good ole days, in the days before wall-to-wall full-card simulcasting allowed us to see everything everywhere?

[lamboguy]

aside from the no drug's, limited ownership and limited amount of horses one trainer can have on their roster's should help turn this game around in a heartbeat.

in my opinion, if this happened they would have to build more racetracks here with the demand for the sport again.

[Tor Ekman]

lasix cost $15 per race.ponder the math on that for a moment and it's apparent there is an impressively sized sub-economy dependent on the continued administration of the drug. Extremely unlikely it's ever going away

[forced89]

I own horses. I believe the Owner should control how much a horse is medicated. In my case I watch my vet bill carefully. If I see a bunch of charges for other than a procedure that my trainer and I have agreed to and/or the charge for administering bute the day before race day and lasix on race day, my horse is coming home for some R&R. This accomplishes two things. First, it keeps my vet bills from approaching the National Debt, and second, it ensures my trainer is not masking a potentially serious problem with drugs. If it takes cocktails of drugs for my horse to compete, I want nothing to do with it.

[lamboguy]

I own horses. I believe the Owner should control how much a horse is medicated. In my case I watch my vet bill carefully. If I see a bunch of charges for other than a procedure that my trainer and I have agreed to and/or the charge for administering bute the day before race day and lasix on race day, my horse is coming home for some R&R. This accomplishes two things. First, it keeps my vet bills from approaching the National Debt, and second, it ensures my trainer is not masking a potentially serious problem with drugs. If it takes cocktails of drugs for my horse to compete, I want nothing to do with it.good for you, and i must say that most people think the same way as you do.

[Ruffian1]

I own horses. I believe the Owner should control how much a horse is medicated. In my case I watch my vet bill carefully. If I see a bunch of charges for other than a procedure that my trainer and I have agreed to and/or the charge for administering bute the day before race day and lasix on race day, my horse is coming home for some R&R. This accomplishes two things. First, it keeps my vet bills from approaching the National Debt, and second, it ensures my trainer is not masking a potentially serious problem with drugs. If it takes cocktails of drugs for my horse to compete, I want nothing to do with it.
Good for you and I agree and appreciate your way of thinking.
I will say that I was fired by an owner for NOT having high enough vet bills . It couldn't have been about winning as we were doing that. Gotta love it.

[PaceAdvantage]

And here I thought...

xIFJLMyUwrg

[HalvOnHorseracing]

It is often the case that drug and medication opponents cite Hong Kong, Japan, Dubai, and some European countries as models for North America. I've done research into racing in Hong Kong. Everything except the owner and trainer of a horse is controlled by the HKJC. Grooms are assigned and paid by HKJC. They are paid a living wage (something like the equivalent of $60,000 a year) and are only assigned three horses to care for at a time. Vets, farriers, other personnel - all work for the HKJC. They control the gambling aspect. They don't have casinos or independent ADW's competing with their monopoly.

The big difference between all those jurisdictions and NA is the number of race days per year. Hong Kong has 86 days with 10 races a day. North America had close to that number of races last weekend. Japan, as far as I can tell, has 23 race days with 12 races per day. That's 276 races. Dubai is also 23 race days. They are space farther apart as well. Japan's racing days are from February to December. It appears that January, July and August are dark, with May being the big month with five racing days. Same with Hong Kong. 86 days spread throughout the year.

Hong Kong could probably get through a season with 2,000 horses in training. Japan and Dubai even less. I counted 24 North American tracks running this weekend. Say 240 races a day with an average of say seven horses per race. That's 1,680 horses a day. In a Friday, Saturday, Sunday that's 5,040 horses. If they run once a month that's somewhere in the vicinity of 30,000 horses just to supply a month of North American racing.

Now if North America ran 100 days a year they could probably find enough horses that were fully healthy and had little or no EIPH and the whole drug question would become moot. But if you have to figure out how to keep 30,000 horses healthy enough to race, there are probably going to be NSAIDs like banamine or bute in the equation, and maybe a few other therapeutic medications. Look at the 0.5% positives for medication and drugs and you'll see almost all of them are for overages of therapeutics that have limited performance enhancing effects, and almost all of those overages are NOT for administration on race day.

The entire discussion about drugs invariably comes down to Lasix. It is the single drug allowed for raceday use. Europe has many of the same medication standards as North America, in some cases their standards are even less stringent. What Europe doesn't have is raceday Lasix. Some Euorpean countries do allow Lasix for training purposes. Either you are pro or anti Lasix, but any discussion about medication in racing that goes beyond that has a lot more to do with the desire of some heavyweights to limit the available racing stock, drive small venues out of business and allow the wealthiest operations to get wealthier. It is the obvious outcome of cutting down the pool of horses that are in racing condition.

I for one am tired of the argument that if Japan or Dubai or Hong Kong can do it, so can we. It is not even apples and oranges - it's more like watermelons and spinach. When someone makes a post that says, here is how you can copy one of those jurisdictions and run 1,000 races in a week during the summer, then there is something to discuss. And if your opinion is that there are too many tracks and too many races, well that is a different discussion. And unfortunately, unlike Hong Kong, we don't have the HKJC to make all the decisions about which state gets to race and for how many days. You have 39 jurisdictions to wrangle (don't forget Canada) and if you think, say Colorado, is going to give up it's piece of the pie because it will be good for racing to have fewer low level claimers to keep healthy and we want to be like Japan and Hong Kong, good luck with that.

[Wan Chai]

Lot of wrong numbers and wrong ideas - wow, the grooms in HK would love to be getting $US 60k - but your overarching argument, that Hong Kong cannot be replicated in the US, is right.
Surprised you didn't use Australia as your comparison - the only jurisdiction in even the same universe as US in terms of horse in training/races run.
Vets have too much say there too but much better drug regime than US

[Track Phantom]

aside from the no drug's, limited ownership and limited amount of horses one trainer can have on their roster's should help turn this game around in a heartbeat.

in my opinion, if this happened they would have to build more racetracks here with the demand for the sport again.

One of the worst things that has happened to racing, at the root, is this (combined with the idea that horses need 4-6 weeks between starts). If these horses were more dispersed, field sizes would be much larger. When Pletcher has 15 3YO fillies who qualify for an allowance race and enters just one, that is a problem.

As far as drugs, I would love it if the game were clean but don't think that would change anything, at least not in the short term. Doesn't really matter since it will never happen.

[Hoofless_Wonder]

...I for one am tired of the argument that if Japan or Dubai or Hong Kong can do it, so can we. It is not even apples and oranges - it's more like watermelons and spinach. When someone makes a post that says, here is how you can copy one of those jurisdictions and run 1,000 races in a week during the summer, then there is something to discuss. And if your opinion is that there are too many tracks and too many races, well that is a different discussion. And unfortunately, unlike Hong Kong, we don't have the HKJC to make all the decisions about which state gets to race and for how many days. You have 39 jurisdictions to wrangle (don't forget Canada) and if you think, say Colorado, is going to give up it's piece of the pie because it will be good for racing to have fewer low level claimers to keep healthy and we want to be like Japan and Hong Kong, good luck with that.

I'll agree that comparing HK to NA racing as it stands today is more like watermelons to spinach, since Hong Kong is such a highly regulated "closed system". But I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that their model could not be adapted to one of the year-round circuits here, say like NYRA, southern California, south Florida or Kentucky.

I have my doubts that a national level organization can steer the industry in the right direction, as the political fallout from trying to get all the racing jurisdictions to align would be difficult to overcome. But that doesn't mean one of the larger circuits can't lead the charge to improve the sport. If NYRA reinstated their ban on lasix, surely that would be a step in the right direction?

[AndyC]

I'll agree that comparing HK to NA racing as it stands today is more like watermelons to spinach, since Hong Kong is such a highly regulated "closed system". But I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that their model could not be adapted to one of the year-round circuits here, say like NYRA, southern California, south Florida or Kentucky.

Hong Kong is not really subject to the market forces that affect NA racing. If an owner or trainer in the US doesn't like what's happening in So. Cal they ship to Florida or Kentucky or NY.

[Steve R]

I see no discussion of the adverse effects race day medication has on the overall well-being of the horses themselves (Bute: anemia and suppression of white blood cell production; Lasix: dehydration, potassium and calcium imbalance), not to mention the inherent danger in masking injuries. Apparently hardcore players really don't care all that much about the issue except to the extent it affects their betting strategy. It seems as if most of the owners don't care much either. It's that attitude which helps to create the image in the general public of Thoroughbred racing as abusive which, to a large degree, it is, especially at the lower end where so many horses shouldn't even be on the track.

[Stillriledup]

I see no discussion of the adverse effects race day medication has on the overall well-being of the horses themselves (Bute: anemia and suppression of white blood cell production; Lasix: dehydration, potassium and calcium imbalance), not to mention the inherent danger in masking injuries. Apparently hardcore players really don't care all that much about the issue except to the extent it affects their betting strategy. It seems as if most of the owners don't care much either. It's that attitude which helps to create the image in the general public of Thoroughbred racing as abusive which, to a large degree, it is, especially at the lower end where so many horses shouldn't even be on the track.

Animal lovers care, but this isn't really an animal lover board so you will see comments slanted towards the gaming aspect of drugs, doesn't make the horse player somehow less compassionate.

[Grits]

Animal lovers care, but this isn't really an animal lover board so you will see comments slanted towards the gaming aspect of drugs, doesn't make the horse player somehow less compassionate.

Not sure what you term as an "animal lover" board, SRU. Perhaps you can explain further. ;)

Its not every horse racing board on the internet that has grown men openly discussing their love of their pets, and their great sadness when they lose them. I'd say this is a board that very much cares about animals.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1784982&highlight=losing+cats#post1784982

[pandy]

I see no discussion of the adverse effects race day medication has on the overall well-being of the horses themselves (Bute: anemia and suppression of white blood cell production; Lasix: dehydration, potassium and calcium imbalance), not to mention the inherent danger in masking injuries. Apparently hardcore players really don't care all that much about the issue except to the extent it affects their betting strategy. It seems as if most of the owners don't care much either. It's that attitude which helps to create the image in the general public of Thoroughbred racing as abusive which, to a large degree, it is, especially at the lower end where so many horses shouldn't even be on the track.

I've written about it. Lasix, like most drugs, has serious side affects. And the fact that most of the horses that are on it don't need it, it's basically animal abuse.

[GatetoWire]

Let's just be honest. Very few people inside racing really want to clean it up. Instead they want to maintain the status quo.

These moderate improvements and relying on testing will never catch any real cheating. It didn't in cycling and it won't in racing. All it does is provide a smokescreen that horsemen actually care.

Everyone in the know in racing realizes that the amount of cheating going on now is widespread. Look at the some of the results the last few years in the marquee Grade 1 races held in Security and out of Security. Many of the elite trainers are the biggest offenders. Everyone knows it and even when they get caught it get's swept under the rug. Accidental, coincidence, contamination.

Take a look at the results over the next few weeks and months. When a horse improves miraculously or does something beyond belief just take a minute and think about Lance Armstrong and his miraculous rides up the mountains in France that everyone ooh'd and ahh'd about even though it was obvious that he wasn't clean. The exact same thing happens in racing. Particularly on races that don't have enhanced security and out of competition testing.
And don't worry nothing will change. No one really wants to pull back the covers because what's under the covers is just too scary to see.

[Stillriledup]

Let's just be honest. Very few people inside racing really want to clean it up. Instead they want to maintain the status quo.

These moderate improvements and relying on testing will never catch any real cheating. It didn't in cycling and it won't in racing. All it does is provide a smokescreen that horsemen actually care.

Everyone in the know in racing realizes that the amount of cheating going on now is widespread. Look at the some of the results the last few years in the marquee Grade 1 races held in Security and out of Security. Many of the elite trainers are the biggest offenders. Everyone knows it and even when they get caught it get's swept under the rug. Accidental, coincidence, contamination.

Take a look at the results over the next few weeks and months. When a horse improves miraculously or does something beyond belief just take a minute and think about Lance Armstrong and his miraculous rides up the mountains in France that everyone ooh'd and ahh'd about even though it was obvious that he wasn't clean. The exact same thing happens in racing. Particularly on races that don't have enhanced security and out of competition testing.
And don't worry nothing will change. No one really wants to pull back the covers because what's under the covers is just too scary to see.

The key to your entire post is the second sentence "very few people inside racing". We need to specifically ask WHO are these insiders who don't want a clean game who actually have the power to make drastic changes.

If you own a track, your goal is to make money, cleaning up the game is costly in more ways than one, also, if other major track owners aren't on board, the cleaning up strategy won't be as effective.

64 dollar question is this. How will a cleaner game make the current track owner MORE money? Remember there are costs involved, so somehow betting handle Needs to rise up to not only cover the costs, but to show enough profit to make it worthwhile.

If you have proof handles will rise substantially, I'm sure tracks would listen. If you have no proof, than why would they gamble ?

[Hoofless_Wonder]

Hong Kong is not really subject to the market forces that affect NA racing. If an owner or trainer in the US doesn't like what's happening in So. Cal they ship to Florida or Kentucky or NY.

True to a certain degree, but if you recall there was a time for many years in which NYRA was the last jurisdiction to NOT allow lasix. And the racing there was fine.

If the purses are high enough and the changes phased in with proper oversight, there's no reason NYRA couldn't backtrack and once again offer a better product for the player. It would take a number of years to do it, but then again Hong Kong was built in a day either.

[Stillriledup]

Not sure what you term as an "animal lover" board, SRU. Perhaps you can explain further. ;)

Its not every horse racing board on the internet that has grown men openly discussing their love of their pets, and their great sadness when they lose them. I'd say this is a board that very much cares about animals.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1784982&highlight=losing+cats#post1784982

I just meant that this is a horse racing board first and foremost.

[Ruffian1]

True to a certain degree, but if you recall there was a time for many years in which NYRA was the last jurisdiction to NOT allow lasix. And the racing there was fine.

If the purses are high enough and the changes phased in with proper oversight, there's no reason NYRA couldn't backtrack and once again offer a better product for the player. It would take a number of years to do it, but then again Hong Kong was built in a day either.

I know that thy did not allow lasix when others did, but the joke was that they allowed about 25 anti bleeding medications most of which were either not allowed in most other states that did have lasix or trainers shipping in had never heard of those drugs or were not able to give those drugs in their home states.
The old hay, oats and water stuff was cute but anything but accurate.
No exaggeration, when I was told over the phone what was available, I had not heard of most of them, and I had heard of all of them from other east coast tracks.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Let's just be honest. Very few people inside racing really want to clean it up. Instead they want to maintain the status quo.

These moderate improvements and relying on testing will never catch any real cheating. It didn't in cycling and it won't in racing. All it does is provide a smokescreen that horsemen actually care.

Everyone in the know in racing realizes that the amount of cheating going on now is widespread. Look at the some of the results the last few years in the marquee Grade 1 races held in Security and out of Security. Many of the elite trainers are the biggest offenders. Everyone knows it and even when they get caught it get's swept under the rug. Accidental, coincidence, contamination.

Take a look at the results over the next few weeks and months. When a horse improves miraculously or does something beyond belief just take a minute and think about Lance Armstrong and his miraculous rides up the mountains in France that everyone ooh'd and ahh'd about even though it was obvious that he wasn't clean. The exact same thing happens in racing. Particularly on races that don't have enhanced security and out of competition testing.
And don't worry nothing will change. No one really wants to pull back the covers because what's under the covers is just too scary to see.

I was at the HBPA meeting last weekend, and one of the panelists talked about a survey that was done in Florida. 90% trainers/owners in favor of Lasix, 10% against. It would be correct to say very few people in racing want to change the Lasix rules.

[Stillriledup]

I was at the HBPA meeting last weekend, and one of the panelists talked about a survey that was done in Florida. 90% trainers/owners in favor of Lasix, 10% against. It would be correct to say very few people in racing want to change the Lasix rules.

Race secretaries just need to write in the conditions 'not eligible horses on Lasix'

Give trainers a window to wean the horses off Lasix and then somewhere in the next 6 months just start making Lasix horses in eligible.