Monmouth Handle Haskell Day

[SandyW]

Monmouth Handle Haskell Day
They came to play today as the handle for HASKELL DAY 2015 was $20,041,527

[ronsmac]

That's strange my ADW says it was over 20 million.

[Longshot6977]

That's strange my ADW says it was over 20 million.
Pretty sure $20,041,527 is more than 20 million. :)

[ronsmac]

Pretty sure $20,041,527 is more than 20 million. :)He edited it on me. lol

[SandyW]

He edited it on me. lol

Sorry, the original number I put was before the 14th race handle was in, my mistake.
Announced Haskell Day attendance is 60,983, a record for Monmouth Park.

[Tall One]

Announced Haskell Day attendance is 60,983, a record for Monmouth Park.



And over 20 million in handle..great day for them. :ThmbUp:

[thespaah]

On track was $29. million off 60,983 on property....
Off track handle was a bit over $17 million.....
Of that $7.37 million was wagered on the Haskell.
For sake of comparison....
Saratoga's handle today was $17 million....$4.08 million on track.
Delmar had 14k on property that bet $2.1 million....Nice per capita number there...Total handle about $15 million...
Last year's Haskell featuring Bayern and Untapable drew 35k...all sources handle $15 million.

[alhattab]

$3 million on track. in 2003 w Funny Cide on track was $4 million. The 2015 attendance number smells worse than Monday morning fish.

[onefast99]

$3 million on track. in 2003 w Funny Cide on track was $4 million. The 2015 attendance number smells worse than Monday morning fish.That is a kulina number....:eek:

[Poindexter]

On track was $29. million off 60,983 on property....
Off track handle was a bit over $17 million.....
Of that $7.37 million was wagered on the Haskell.
For sake of comparison....
Saratoga's handle today was $17 million....$4.08 million on track.
Delmar had 14k on property that bet $2.1 million....Nice per capita number there...Total handle about $15 million...
Last year's Haskell featuring Bayern and Untapable drew 35k...all sources handle $15 million.


Wow, only 3 million bet by 60,000 people. That is $50 bucks a pop. That is like $4 a race. that seems impossible to believe. Then I looked at their previous Sunday's stats, where attendance of 8000 bet $430,000. over 11 races or a whopping $5 a race. Del Mar is getting 3 times that amount per person per race. But even that doesn't impress me very much. Obviously most if not all of your big bettors are betting off track even when on track. Brilliant system.

[ultracapper]

Can't get your rebates at the window.

[PaceAdvantage]

Wow, only 3 million bet by 60,000 people. That is $50 bucks a pop. That is like $4 a race. that seems impossible to believe. Then I looked at their previous Sunday's stats, where attendance of 8000 bet $430,000. over 11 races or a whopping $5 a race. Del Mar is getting 3 times that amount per person per race. But even that doesn't impress me very much. Obviously most if not all of your big bettors are betting off track even when on track. Brilliant system.If you've been around this game a long time, you'd realize this is the norm...not the exception.

That's why HANDLE is way more important than attendance.

[ronsmac]

If you've been around this game a long time, you'd realize this is the norm...not the exception.

That's why HANDLE is way more important than attendance.On big days attendance, parking, seating , concessions & parking are more important to the track . No splits with horseman and adws.

[SandyW]

On big days attendance, parking, seating , concessions & parking are more important to the track . No splits with horseman and adws.

Good point, there is a lot of profit in those $4.00 bottles of water.

[Tom]

Who cares what the handle was?
Do you care how much money the diner takes in the day you have lunch there?

I am not getting a cut, so what do I care?

[SuperPickle]

If you've been around this game a long time, you'd realize this is the norm...not the exception.

That's why HANDLE is way more important than attendance.

If anyone doubts PA take a gander at the Canterbury Park numbers. They routinely have 7-8,000 on track and don't hit a million in total handle.

[alhattab]

If you've been around this game a long time, you'd realize this is the norm...not the exception.

That's why HANDLE is way more important than attendance.

A few other thoughts:

- I mentioned in the Haskell Purse Increase thread that the attendance figure is inflated by spinners. There is zero chance that the reported attendance figure reflects actual bodies at Haskell Day. I went through the turnstiles 5 times myself. There is a hat giveaway that attracts spinners every year. Hell they aren't even spinners, they get hats then go to the beach they don't even come back!

-good points made on how the ADWs affect per capita. It makes the 2003 v 2015 comparison apples v oranges. I'm not sure to what extent there was on track ADW play. I had a hard time getting into NJ Bets, but I was in the grandstand maybe service was better in the Clubhouse. Wasn't needed anyway it was easy to bet of course and for me the rebates are better thru the track than they are thru NJ bets.

[PaceAdvantage]

NYRA was able to pretty much clear up the inflated attendance numbers caused by spinners...I'm not sure why other tracks can't do the same...oh...wait...I know why...they probably don't WANT to clear up the kind of problem that makes it look like lots more people were there PLUS they haven't had to endure the kind of scrutiny NYRA has been under these past many years... :lol:

[cj]

If anyone doubts PA take a gander at the Canterbury Park numbers. They routinely have 7-8,000 on track and don't hit a million in total handle.

Same thing happens at Remington. I don't think they eve report attendance, but the place is pretty crowded and they don't handle squat.

[foregoforever]

NYRA was able to pretty much clear up the inflated attendance numbers caused by spinners...I'm not sure why other tracks can't do the same...oh...wait...I know why...they probably don't WANT to clear up the kind of problem that makes it look like lots more people were there PLUS they haven't had to endure the kind of scrutiny NYRA has been under these past many years... :lol:

Do you read Tom Noonan's blog?

NYRA falsely inflated 2014 Saratoga attendance by 174,000 (http://tenoonan.com/2015/07/15/nyra-falsely-inflated-2014-saratoga-attendance-by-174000/)

[PaceAdvantage]

Do you read Tom Noonan's blog?

NYRA falsely inflated 2014 Saratoga attendance by 174,000 (http://tenoonan.com/2015/07/15/nyra-falsely-inflated-2014-saratoga-attendance-by-174000/)If you read my post again, nothing I wrote differs from Noonan. I wrote that NYRA WAS ABLE TO CLEAR UP INFLATED NUMBERS CAUSED BY SPINNERS, which Noonan validates in the link you posted:

NYRA has also attempted to explain the padding of attendance by comparing figures from prior years when the turnstile accounts on the “giveaway” days was inflated by counting spinners – those who paid additional admissions to acquire more of the free stuff such as hats or umbrellas that the track was passing out. The decision by NYRA to stop that practice was commendable. Emphasis mine.

The practice of adding sold but unused "season passes" is a subject of controversy. You see plenty of empty seats at ballparks in MLB on announced "sellout" days because of the similar attendance accounting policies.

[Rex Phinney]

Come on PA, you can be more unbiased than that. Weak sauce man, knocking Monmouth for spinners but giving NYRA a pass for verified inflated numbers.

I thought you were better than that man. :lol:

[cj]

The practice of adding sold but unused "season passes" is a subject of controversy. You see plenty of empty seats at ballparks in MLB on announced "sellout" days because of the similar attendance accounting policies.

HUGE difference there. The baseball ticket is bought and paid for at full price. Season passes are discounted well below the daily price but are counted like full price was paid.

That said, are they even doing that this year? I thought that was changed but maybe I'm wrong.

[foregoforever]

If you read my post again ...
I did. It still says

... they [Monmouth] probably don't WANT to clear up the kind of problem that makes it look like lots more people were there ...

If you want to point out an example of honest attendance reporting, you need to look somewhere other than NYRA.

[PaceAdvantage]

Come on PA, you can be more unbiased than that. Weak sauce man, knocking Monmouth for spinners but giving NYRA a pass for verified inflated numbers.

I thought you were better than that man. :lol:I didn't give anyone a pass. MY WORDS were purposely SPUN to put a negative spin on the fact that NYRA has eliminated inflated attendance figures CAUSED BY SPINNERS.

Now, whether or not attendance figures are now inflated some OTHER way, that's a separate argument.

You guys with your attempted "gotchas" lately keep generating the same response from me...don't double down when you hold nothing.

[PaceAdvantage]

If you want to point out an example of honest attendance reporting, you need to look somewhere other than NYRA.All I said was NYRA eliminated the inflated attendance #s via spinners, a fact verified by your own beloved Tom Noonan.

That's all I stated. And it's true.

I didn't knock Monmouth...but now I will.

Every time the camera panned the apron on Sunday, I kept saying to myself, WHERE IS EVERYBODY? I assumed they must have all been inside making bets...but based on the handle, that couldn't very well be true...lots of stingy pockets on Haskell day according to the per capita numbers...or a hugely inflated attendance figure, which is more likely.

[Grits]

During Sunday's NBC telecast, I wrote, here, of noticing that the crowd didn't seem like that of Belmont Day. Granted the track is smaller, but I was surprised by the apron in particular.

Still, I hope he keeps filling the tracks to the rafters.

[PaceAdvantage]

Maybe we can get back to talking handle for a moment...

Did anyone look at yesterday's (a MONDAY no less) Saratoga on-track handle?

They almost handled the same exact ON TRACK that Monmouth did on SUNDAY HASKELL DAY ($2,879,566 vs. $2,962,430)!

AND SARATOGA RAN FOUR FEWER RACES...

AND Saratoga didn't run the Haskell on Monday! :lol:

AND...(and this is the REAL kicker)...the first race at Saratoga on Monday was a STEEPLECHASE RACE!!!!

It's close to mind boggling when you think about that for a moment...

[onefast99]

Maybe we can get back to talking handle for a moment...

Did anyone look at yesterday's (a MONDAY no less) Saratoga on-track handle?

They almost handled the same exact ON TRACK that Monmouth did on SUNDAY HASKELL DAY ($2,879,566 vs. $2,962,430)!

AND SARATOGA RAN FOUR FEWER RACES...

AND Saratoga didn't run the Haskell on Monday! :lol:

AND...(and this is the REAL kicker)...the first race at Saratoga on Monday was a STEEPLECHASE RACE!!!!

It's close to mind boggling when you think about that for a moment...
Saratoga is a boutique meet MP isn't. August is the top vacation month of the year. No one can ever compare Saratoga #'s to anything other than Del Mar.

[PaceAdvantage]

Saratoga is a boutique meet MP isn't. August is the top vacation month of the year. No one can ever compare Saratoga #'s to anything other than Del Mar.It's not every day the first triple crown winner in 37 years visits what is supposed to be a top summer racing destination...

You don't think that trumps (by more than a few shekels) "boutique meet on a Monday" - with four fewer races including a jump race?

[Grits]

Handle or not, viewership was up...and this is a good thing.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/93405/haskell-tv-ratings-double-compared-with-2014

[castaway01]

It's not every day the first triple crown winner in 37 years visits what is supposed to be a top summer racing destination...

You don't think that trumps (by more than a few shekels) "boutique meet on a Monday" - with four fewer races including a jump race?

Saratoga is a much better betting product, and most of the people at Monmouth were families and tourists, not serious bettors. Monmouth did put on a good show, the site of the place packed on NBC (whether it was 30,000 or 60,000) with the crowd going crazy for Pharoah was only a positive for the game. Made it look like horse racing had some life to it for once.

[PaceAdvantage]

Saratoga is a much better betting product, and most of the people at Monmouth were families and tourists, not serious bettors.They had decent sized fields on Haskell day...they had four extra races (really FIVE if you don't count the Steeplechase race, where NO serious money is going). Seems to me like you're stretching really far in your rationalizations when you consider there are plenty of families and tourists at Saratoga as well.

But I don't want to come off as belligerent in my debate, so I'll let it go as a very interesting oddity.

[andtheyreoff]

They had decent sized fields on Haskell day...they had four extra races (really FIVE if you don't count the Steeplechase race, where NO serious money is going). Seems to me like you're stretching really far in your rationalizations when you consider there are plenty of families and tourists at Saratoga as well.

But I don't want to come off as belligerent in my debate, so I'll let it go as a very interesting oddity.

There's not many families and tourists at Saratoga on a Monday, either.

As others here have pointed out, just because there's a lot of people at a track, doesn't mean that they all have to bet a ton. The crowd Sunday was, at best, very naive, and weren't going to bet a ton per race. It was a strong crowd Sunday at Monmouth (and certainly not small enough to be yelling at the TV "WHERE IS EVERYBODY"). No need to turn it into a competition.

[PaceAdvantage]

It also points to how well Saratoga is doing this meeting, handle-wise and how strong the NYRA product really is.

But the bashers still seem to have ammunition at the ready and at a moments notice.

I'll keep this thread in mind the next time someone comes on here to tell us how much NYRA sucks. People keep betting it IN DROVES though...

BTW, how is SAR doing vs. DMR this year? I guess that's another topic for another thread.

Here's a hint...it ain't pretty for DMR in the heads-up arena.

[onefast99]

It's not every day the first triple crown winner in 37 years visits what is supposed to be a top summer racing destination...

You don't think that trumps (by more than a few shekels) "boutique meet on a Monday" - with four fewer races including a jump race?
Saratoga and Del Mar seem to rack up the biggest numbers handle and attendance wise in the short period of time they run. MP has a huge drop off right after the Haskell. I still don't see any comparison to Saratoga other than Haskell Day that was indeed special this year. Maybe there will be a comparison attendance and gate wise soon as Zayat would like to run in the Travers....

[ronsmac]

It also points to how well Saratoga is doing this meeting, handle-wise and how strong the NYRA product really is.

But the bashers still seem to have ammunition at the ready and at a moments notice.

I'll keep this thread in mind the next time someone comes on here to tell us how much NYRA sucks. People keep betting it IN DROVES though...

BTW, how is SAR doing vs. DMR this year? I guess that's another topic for another thread.

Here's a hint...it ain't pretty for DMR in the heads-up arena.Delmar rebates are the worst unless you're a huge bettor.

[PaceAdvantage]

Strictly speaking about on-track numbers...