American Pharoah - next race?

[horses4courses]

There are 2 questions to be answered here.

Firstly, where will Zayat choose to run him next?
After that, will there be another prep before the BC Classic?

[Kash$]

Pacific very weak older division..

It won be the Travers. ..Baffert hates Saratoga..

[depalma113]

If it is not the Travers, they are making a huge mistake.

Only Whirlaway has won the Triple Crown and Travers, American Pharoah deserves the opportunity.

[DeltaLover]

I think the best spot is going to be JC Gold Cup against older and then BCC of course...

[thespaah]

Pacific very weak older division..

It won be the Travers. ..Baffert hates Saratoga..
Even with the Purse bump to $1.6 million?

[thespaah]

Just as I had figured, it was what I call a "pari-mutuel workout" for AP....
Smith had him wrapped up for the better part of the last 3/16ths..
The horse is truly on top of his game.
Now, logically, the Travers should be next. However I can see Baffert recommending "no"...Which if that is the case, sucks sideways.
So what's next? The PA Derby? Which would no doubt be another easy winner's check.....
Zayat has a wonderful opportunity to showcase this horse and bring him to where the real fans will show up. AP if handled properly could be a boon to horse racing.

[thespaah]

I think the best spot is going to be JC Gold Cup against older and then BCC of course...
Sure....But that's 60 days off.
Can AP be kept sharp with a two month layoff?
The Travers is 27 days from now. That spot fits very nicely.
27 days. Then 33 days to the JCGC. Then 28 days to the BC Classic.
Looks like a winner to me.

[Longshot6977]

I think either Awesome Again at Santa Anita on Sept 26 or Penn Derby at Parx on Sept 19. I think Baffert is not so fond of Travers and Zayat said he wants the sport to enjoy the horse as he isn't so high on the money portion, so added purse money not too much of a factor. (although we just saw 3/4 million thrown into the Haskell several days before the race). I'll go with Penn Derby since Baffert won last year with Bayern there after running 10th at the Travers.

[horses4courses]

Of course, if you're a member of Dumb Ass Partners,
you might be planning something like this for AP:

Racingwithbruno ‏@Racingwithbruno 35m35 minutes ago
Dumbass partners of California Chrome planning out campaign for American Pharoah to run in Arc De Triomphe & Japan Cup. #dontbetwithbruno

:lol:

[Grits]

It won be the Travers. ..Baffert hates Saratoga..

Don't think this is true.

Standing by the van when Point Given arrived in Saratoga, I was smitten. And rightfully so...just after his winning the Preakness, the Belmont and the Haskell, he added the Travers. The connections will go where the money is.

As much as I'd like to see Pharoah again, I hope the choice will be the Travers. But the Woodward, facing older would be nice. After today, though, I'm not convinced its necessary to see him face older before the Classic. Why? And who? As in, at this point, who can beat him?

It was my thinking that there would only be one more start prior to the Classic, and I could be mistaken on this.

[ronsmac]

It's a close call between Philly and Delmar. Baffert and Zayat split 400k at Philly just to show up, and that's before any negotiations for more appearance fees , and Delmar was talking about putting together a 5 million dollar bonus if he runs there, then Santa Anita and then Keeneland. I'm hoping it's Delmar.

[iceknight]

Just as I had figured, it was what I call a "pari-mutuel workout" for AP....
Smith had him wrapped up for the better part of the last 3/16ths..
The horse is truly on top of his game.
Now, logically, the Travers should be next. However I can see Baffert recommending "no"...Which if that is the case, sucks sideways.
So what's next? The PA Derby? Which would no doubt be another easy winner's check.....
Zayat has a wonderful opportunity to showcase this horse and bring him to where the real fans will show up. AP if handled properly could be a boon to horse racing. It was very fluid motion into the turn.. But clearly you meant Victor, right?

[SandyW]

Just as I had figured, it was what I call a "pari-mutuel workout" for AP....
Smith had him wrapped up for the better part of the last 3/16ths..
The horse is truly on top of his game.
Now, logically, the Travers should be next. However I can see Baffert recommending "no"...Which if that is the case, sucks sideways.
So what's next? The PA Derby? Which would no doubt be another easy winner's check.....
Zayat has a wonderful opportunity to showcase this horse and bring him to where the real fans will show up. AP if handled properly could be a boon to horse racing.

I thought I saw Victor Espinoza Riding AP not Mike Smith.

[grandstander21]

I highly recommend the Travers at Saratoga. It's the biggest, most important 3-year-old dirt race of the summer. A lot of popular horses that have run in the Triple Crown ran in the Travers. Plus, when you have an amazing Triple Crown winner like American Pharoah running at a very popular summer track like Saratoga, that is a deal you can't turn down.

It's simple. American Pharoah + Saratoga = greatness. No doubt.

[AlBundy33]

I hope it's the Travers. But at this point, I just want to enjoy whenever or wherever he races.

[ILovetheInner]

I thought I saw Victor Espinoza Riding AP not Mike Smith.

Smith rode Competitive Edge, I believe.

[OTM Al]

As we all know, the Springfield Derby is the fifth leg of the Triple Crown and since he did just win the 4th jewel, to quote a well known handicapper, it's logical.....

[NY BRED]

For some strange reason/feeling, I'm feeling the AP camp is looking
for NY to bump the Travers purse to 2,000,000.

Once that happens, viola, The Mig and Jason will be dancing
on Union Ave.

:jump: :jump: :jump: :jump:

[Tom]

Nothing to prove by beating more three year olds - go for the TRUE championship race, the one bigger than the Classic - the JCGC.

[BlinkersOn]

I think AP's next race will be Pennsylvania Derby on Sept. 19th....just thinking out loud. Everyone loves The Spa except Baffert.

[nijinski]

[QUOTE=grandstander21]I highly recommend the Travers at Saratoga. It's the biggest, most important 3-year-old dirt race of the summer. A lot of popular horses that have run in the Triple Crown ran in the Travers. Plus, when you have an amazing Triple Crown winner like American Pharoah running at a very popular summer track like Saratoga, that is a deal you can't turn down.

It's simple. American Pharoah + Saratoga = greatness. No doubt. Bafferts is a bundle of nerves , I highly doubt he goes to Saratoga .

[thespaah]

Why go to the west coast?...For the Pacific Classic?....Ok....Older horses works.

[thespaah]

It was very fluid motion into the turn.. But clearly you meant Victor, right?
Yes...screwed that up, didn't I....Jeez..... :bang:
Yeah AP looked so smooth.
I wish I could have seen the gallop out.

[thespaah]

As we all know, the Springfield Derby is the fifth leg of the Triple Crown and since he did just win the 4th jewel, to quote a well known handicapper, it's logical.....
Springfield Derby?...Is Homer Simpson doing the race call for NBC?

[thespaah]

For some strange reason/feeling, I'm feeling the AP camp is looking
for NY to bump the Travers purse to 2,000,000.

Once that happens, viola, The Mig and Jason will be dancing
on Union Ave.

:jump: :jump: :jump: :jump:
Yeah....We can all wish...Should that happen and Baffert decides to go to the Spa,
I wonder if NYRA would enact another attendance cap....
I've been there with over 50k people. Tough day.

[cj]

Yeah....We can all wish...Should that happen and Baffert decides to go to the Spa,
I wonder if NYRA would enact another attendance cap....
I've been there with over 50k people. Tough day.

It was announced already that the cap would be 60k, done a long time ago I believe.

[Speed Figure]

I see them going to Del Mar!

[dilanesp]

Nothing to prove by beating more three year olds - go for the TRUE championship race, the one bigger than the Classic - the JCGC.

When New York fans say stuff like this, it shows why California fams think that New York racing people are arrogant and out of touch with reality.

[dilanesp]

I see them going to Del Mar!

If I owned him, i'd go to New York. The JCGC is usually a weak prep and gives them a chance to beat a weak field of older horses. I would add the Travers as a second prep.

From a selfish interest, i want him to go to DMR.

But my prediction is PARX. That's what Baffert did with Bayern and it worked.

[dilanesp]

[QUOTE=grandstander21]I highly recommend the Travers at Saratoga. It's the biggest, most important 3-year-old dirt race of the summer. A lot of popular horses that have run in the Triple Crown ran in the Travers. Plus, when you have an amazing Triple Crown winner like American Pharoah running at a very popular summer track like Saratoga, that is a deal you can't turn down.

It's simple. American Pharoah + Saratoga = greatness. No doubt. Bafferts is a bundle of nerves , I highly doubt he goes to Saratoga .

Nothing he does against 3 year olds will establish greatness. He has to win in open company.

[thespaah]

It was announced already that the cap would be 60k, done a long time ago I believe.
Thanks...Did no know that....
It wouldn't effect me. We're sitting at a table by 10 am anyway. Yep Travers day is a Lonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng day....But I enjoy it.

[Redboard]

I voted for Travers, but I'm OK with whatever they decide. This whole thing is surreal.

[arw629]

If this was AP's schedule would he run the table????

August 8th-Minnesota Derby at Canterbury
August 15th-Canadian Derby at Northlands Park
August 22nd-Pacific Classic at Del Mar
August 29th-Travers at the Spa
Sept 5th-Woodward at the Spa
Sept 12th-Super Derby at LAD
Sept 19th-PA Derby at Parx
Sept 26th-Awesome Again at SA
October 3rd-JCGC at Belmont
rest....
Halloween BCC at Keeneland

[thespaah]

If this was AP's schedule would he run the table????

August 8th-Minnesota Derby at Canterbury
August 15th-Canadian Derby at Northlands Park
August 22nd-Pacific Classic at Del Mar
August 29th-Travers at the Spa
Sept 5th-Woodward at the Spa
Sept 12th-Super Derby at LAD
Sept 19th-PA Derby at Parx
Sept 26th-Awesome Again at SA
October 3rd-JCGC at Belmont
rest....
Halloween BCC at Keeneland
If he were a Standardbred, maybe. Those horses go every week.....

[ArlJim78]

Today's race was astonishingly easy and tells me he's still improving.
I hope in at least one of these final starts they really let him go and try to uncork a big one.

[raybo]

Pacific very weak older division..

It won be the Travers. ..Baffert hates Saratoga..

He ran Bayern there last year.

[taxicab]

Baffert likes the Pacific Classic,he's won it three of the last six years.
He won it with a 3yo in 1999 (General Challenge).
With Beholder eyeing the race,it would truly be a Classic.
Only a guess,I think he goes in that direction.

[HuggingTheRail]

If this was AP's schedule would he run the table????

August 8th-Minnesota Derby at Canterbury
August 15th-Canadian Derby at Northlands Park
August 22nd-Pacific Classic at Del Mar
August 29th-Travers at the Spa
Sept 5th-Woodward at the Spa
Sept 12th-Super Derby at LAD
Sept 19th-PA Derby at Parx
Sept 26th-Awesome Again at SA
October 3rd-JCGC at Belmont
rest....
Halloween BCC at Keeneland

The BC Derby at Hastings may be of interest.... September 13th - purse is $250,000, but I will throw in $20 as an extra incentive... :lol: :lol:

[Speed Figure]

He ran Bayern there last year.
And he ran dead last.

[Rex Phinney]

When New York fans say stuff like this, it shows why California fams think that New York racing people are arrogant and out of touch with reality.

You should go read the article by Bill Finley at ESPN, it's a damn joke. He claims the horse should run in front of real fans, New Yorkers, and basically says racing anywhere but Saratoga is a waste of time.

He has run his last two races in NY/NJ, he hasn't run a race in California since last fall. Considering this is his home base I think they need to run him at Del Mar or they could run him in the Travers then the Awesome Again at Santa Anita.

Truthfully I think they will run him at Parx and then the BCC. Big $$$ to run there, extra time between races and he only has to face older once.

[depalma113]

You should go read the article by Bill Finley at ESPN, it's a damn joke. He claims the horse should run in front of real fans, New Yorkers, and basically says racing anywhere but Saratoga is a waste of time.

Anywhere but the Travers is a joke.

[OTM Al]

Springfield Derby?...Is Homer Simpson doing the race call for NBC?
Of course not, but he will be entering Duncan, aka Furious D.

[rastajenk]

A little outside-the-box suggestion: Keeneland's Phoenix Stakes at 6 furlongs. It gives him a trip over the track; he will face older contestants; he could prove his versatility; the timing is just right; and it would be fun to see him sprint.

[cj]

Why do people think Baffert hates Saratoga? Point Given won the Travers...Bayern is no Point Given. Point Given was no American Pharoah.

[OTM Al]

Why do people think Baffert hates Saratoga? Point Given won the Travers...Bayern is no Point Given. Point Given was no American Pharoah.

Because everyone knows better than the owner and trainer as to what they should do. He is the people's horse after all......The comedy of this thread will replace that caused by the lack of an Eclipse Awards silly season this year.

[aaron]

Amazing,Secretarit ran 6 times after the Belmont. In this era,trainers are looking for spots and are afraid to lose a race. Pharaoh looks like a horse who could run at least a few more times,but his connections really don't want to.

[castaway01]

Amazing,Secretarit ran 6 times after the Belmont. In this era,trainers are looking for spots and are afraid to lose a race. Pharaoh looks like a horse who could run at least a few more times,but his connections really don't want to.

We've got a thread where "greedy" Penny Tweedy is blamed for all future horses retiring early, and now a post where "Secretarit" is a warrior who ran so many more times than the current champion. Guess there are two sides to every story, and both still wrong.

As far as Pharoah, I think the PA Derby will see a purse increase and that's where he goes, but maybe tradition and the Travers will win out. While I totally understand why Monmouth would create a race to get another huge crowd to the track, I don't think it would be wise for the connections to take that route. I also don't see a trip to CA, but if enough money gets thrown around, who knows?

[Kash$]

Why do people think Baffert hates Saratoga? Point Given won the Travers...Bayern is no Point Given. Point Given was no American Pharoah.

Also finished last with Coil

[aaron]

We've got a thread where "greedy" Penny Tweedy is blamed for all future horses retiring early, and now a post where "Secretarit" is a warrior who ran so many more times than the current champion. Guess there are two sides to every story, and both still wrong.

As far as Pharoah, I think the PA Derby will see a purse increase and that's where he goes, but maybe tradition and the Travers will win out. While I totally understand why Monmouth would create a race to get another huge crowd to the track, I don't think it would be wise for the connections to take that route. I also don't see a trip to CA, but if enough money gets thrown around, who knows?
I am not saying right or wrong.Just pointing out that Penny Tweedy knowing the horse was being retired chose to run him and not avoid races. Secretarit,lost to older horses in the Whitney,by passing the easier Travers spot. Affirmed and Seattle Slew ran less as 3yo,but did run at 4.

[Grits]

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/next-for-pharoahs-connections-seeking-money-or-legacy/#

Zayat told reporters immediately following the Haskell that he had “no clue” where American Pharoah will race next. Later he said he preferred the Grade 1 Travers at Saratoga on Aug. 29. Baffert has not had great success in the Travers, winning it just once in five tries with eventual Horse of the Year Point Given in 2001.

Whatever race is chosen, presumably it will be the second to last start of a racing career likely to end on Oct. 31 in the $5 million Breeders’ Cup Classic at Keeneland.

Again, as stated yesterday, hope to see him in the Travers....

Castaway, get ready, don't go postal on me. I'm dropping a bomb here. ;) At the risk of irritating you and those who are residents of Pennsylvania.

Gentlemen, I'm sorry, but I don't think PARX has ever really been on the short list. PARX is bush league. :lol:

When considering the importance of the legacy of this long awaited Triple Crown champion. This stuff goes in the history books forever. Now, the money becomes a bit less important as he rolls on to victory, so use common sense. Where would you rather run for history's sake--Saratoga, Belmont (again), DelMar, or PARX?

[PaceAdvantage]

When New York fans say stuff like this, it shows why California fams think that New York racing people are arrogant and out of touch with reality.Arrogant? Remove the plank from thy own eye... :lol:

[PaceAdvantage]

He claims the horse should run in front of real fans, New Yorkers, and basically says racing anywhere but Saratoga is a waste of time.Well, I have to agree with him there...

A history making horse deserves a history making track...

But seriously folks...they'll go wherever they get the best deal - money wise...

[EMD4ME]

Maybe he can go to Emerald and be ridden by Julien Couton in the Longacres Mile?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

O.K. That was my 1 attempt at humor for the day :lol: :lol: :lol:

Would like to see him in the Travers BUT I would love to see him against older before the BCC. As many have been saying, maybe the JCGC.

[cj]

Maybe he can go to Emerald and be ridden by Julien Couton in the Longacres Mile?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

O.K. That was my 1 attempt at humor for the day :lol: :lol: :lol:

Would like to see him in the Travers BUT I would love to see him against older before the BCC. As many have been saying, maybe the JCGC.

I really don't get the one race and Classic strategy. I'd go Travers, JCGC (or Woodward), then BC Classic. If he wins out he'd be a legend for eternity.

Throw in PA Derby instead of Travers/JCGC...not nearly the same level of accomplishment.

[Robert Goren]

The JC Gold Cup is just about the right time for his next race. That is where I would race him. Then on to the Breeders Cup. I can not imagine that he would get more than one race between now and the BC.

[burnsy]

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/next-for-pharoahs-connections-seeking-money-or-legacy/#



Again, as stated yesterday, hope to see him in the Travers....

Castaway, get ready, don't go postal on me. I'm dropping a bomb here. ;) At the risk of irritating you and those who are residents of Pennsylvania.

Gentlemen, I'm sorry, but I don't think PARX has ever really been on the short list. PARX is bush league. :lol:

When considering the importance of the legacy of this long awaited Triple Crown champion. This stuff goes in the history books forever. Now, the money becomes a bit less important as he rolls on to victory, so use common sense. Where would you rather run for history's sake--Saratoga, Belmont (again), DelMar, or PARX?


Grits is right on. The money at this point is meaningless. Even the Travers is getting upped to 1.6, if he runs. One thing Saratoga has going for it is the fact that a Triple Crown winner has never also won the Travers. As mentioned here Secretariat took all comers and went older at Saratoga. Losing back then didn't seem like the end of the world, like it does now. Forget about Baffert for a minute and think owners. You know damn well that they covet a Travers victory with this horse......if you owned him, wouldn't you? He's going to have a first ballot, plaque, across the street.......after the Triple Crown, which victory against other 3 yo's will shine the most? A win here, that's what.

[EMD4ME]

I really don't get the one race and Classic strategy. I'd go Travers, JCGC (or Woodward), then BC Classic. If he wins out he'd be a legend for eternity.

Throw in PA Derby instead of Travers/JCGC...not nearly the same level of accomplishment.

CJ, I totally 100000000% agree with you. I don't know what his contract states but I would think it's based upon the more historic races he wins, they get more. We may just have the best horse to come across the planet in 20 years and I don't want to see the owners protecting him like he has chinks in his game. Find competition, call them out, welcome all comers, run against older and RUN FOR ETERNAL glory Zayat.

That's what I would do.

If they go Parx, that would be a pathetic move on their part.

[lamboguy]

running in and winning the Travers would be a great way to go. i have no idea what the travel plans are for the horse from. he might be going back to Southern California making a race in Saratoga less likely.

going to Saratoga would be great for racing and bring in plenty of fans to watch the horse train over the track.

as a fan i hope he doesn't go back west and goes up to the Spa to light things up.

[Grits]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/93385/pharoah-heads-home-next-race-undecided

Owner Ahmed Zayat and trainer Bob Baffert offered few clues about where American Pharoah would start next, though Baffert suggested a race against older horses before the ultimate target of the Breeders' Cup Classic (gr. I) would be unlikely. Both suggested the timing of the race—relative to how American Pharoah bounces out of the Haskell when he returns to Southern California—will factor big in their decision.

Noted last night, why against older before the BCC?

[PaceAdvantage]

My guess here is that much like the Belmont Stakes, all circuit breakers will be removed from Espinoza/American Pharoah for the Breeders' Cup Classic. This is the horse's last race and it will likely be a showcase...a "let's see exactly what this horse can do in its last race ever."

They don't want to have to do this one race BEFORE the BCC if they run against older and find themselves in a brawl down the stretch.

It's a smart approach, but not very sportsmen-like of them...

[EMD4ME]

My guess here is that much like the Belmont Stakes, all circuit breakers will be removed from Espinoza/American Pharoah for the Breeders' Cup Classic. This is the horse's last race and it will likely be a showcase...a "let's see exactly what this horse can do in its last race ever."

They don't want to have to do this one race BEFORE the BCC if they run against older and find themselves in a brawl down the stretch.

It's a smart approach, but not very sportsmen-like of them...

I can't blame them (no pun intended). I wouldn't put the petal to the metal either.

Something tells me if they're up 5 in the BCC he will be geared down there as well. Why risk a ton of money for a track record or to see how much he has?

I wouldn't.

[Stillriledup]

Why do people think Baffert hates Saratoga? Point Given won the Travers...Bayern is no Point Given. Point Given was no American Pharoah.

Monmouth makes his feet 'warm at night' and maybe NYRA doesn't.

[lamboguy]

i just heard that AMERICAN PHAROAH went on a plane back to California. :

[Stillriledup]

This horse creates races that are essentially non betting races, gamblers like full fields of wide open races, AP created neither the other day. All those people showed up at Monmouth to see a bad betting race.

[ronsmac]

This horse creates races that are essentially non betting races, gamblers like full fields of wide open races, AP created neither the other day. All those people showed up at Monmouth to see a bad betting race.
It has zero to do with good betting races. The majority of fans at Monmouth wanted to see a great horse and event, like when MJ used to come to town or the Heatles with LeBron. Most would have been disappointed if he lost. There's dozens of races a day for the hardcore gambler to bet on.

[Redboard]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/93385/pharoah-heads-home-next-race-undecided



Noted last night, why against older before the BCC?

To me that says the PA Derby is the frontrunner. Keep him at 9f, give him a 7/8 week rest. Use it as a prep for the BCC.

[onefast99]

To me that says the PA Derby is the frontrunner. Keep him at 9f, give him a 7/8 week rest. Use it as a prep for the BCC.
I agree its Parx for the PA derby next time we see him.

[onefast99]

i just heard that AMERICAN PHAROAH went on a plane back to California. :
He did leave and will resume training in California that alone tells you he isn't going to Saratoga.

[Grits]

A poster here at PA made this comment elsewhere. And truth be told, it's quite possible given his earnings now, his earnings in the future. What is at stake every time he steps on the track, be it to train or to race. I wouldn't be surprised at all.

Said this on another page yesterday: Something about the Haskell felt like a victory lap. I would NOT be stunned if that was the last we saw of him, but if it was, that's a hell of a way to go out.

When listening to Baffert's comments yesterday, again, like after the Belmont, maybe more--it's obvious the impact American Pharoah has had on him. I don't ever recall him speaking of any horse in his barn in the past as "a gift from God." Too, I don't recall seeing he and his family pray together before a race. With the camera behind them, this was visible yesterday--grouped quietly, together, with their heads bowed just before the race.

These were his remarks with Scott Hazelton after the race.
http://www.hrtv.com/videos/?VideoCategoryId=2&VideoId=xXYvEu1PXbXCZMvmq0beJGml3Hm42XgzN637ny7+We U

[PaceAdvantage]

Victory lap? More like a paid workout...

That wasn't his last dance...I'm often wrong, so who knows, but I'd be absolutely SHOCKED if this was it.

Was the comment from someone who has often claimed that any horse who wins the Triple Crown will NEVER race again after the Belmont Stakes? :lol:

That theory is already down the toilet...I never believed for a second that the next horse who won the Triple Crown would wrap up their career in the process that first Saturday in June...

[Grits]

No. The comment was not from such a person. A respected one, who you've seen in the festival tent a number of years.

[PaceAdvantage]

No. The comment was not from such a person. A respected one, who you've seen in the festival tent a number of years.A respected person could have certainly made that comment (about retiring after winning the TC). ;)

[depalma113]

I am for one am getting pretty tired of people who claim this horse needs to stop racing.

If they don't want to watch a Triple Crown winner race, please stop watching the rest of them.

[thaskalos]

I am for one am getting pretty tired of people who claim this horse needs to stop racing.

If they don't want to watch a Triple Crown winner race, please stop watching the rest of them.
If people DO stop claiming that American Pharoah needs to stop racing...would this keep the horse racing longer?

[Wiley]

It would be fun to see him in the Travers against a nice field like Texas Red, Frosted, Upstart, Materiality and Keen Ice. Join Whirlaway as the only other TC / Travers winner.
As little as it looks like these races takes out of him, why not a Travers, Awesome Again, Classic schedule? That's only 3 races over 3 months and you also cover the East, West and Midwest/South in the process.

Zayat and Baffert will do what they want with the horse but why would you not want to race a once in a lifetime horse as much as possible if the horse is sound and able?

The horse most of the time, really does not even look like he is in a race against other horses when he runs, more like him out by himself with Victor on a Sunday stroll, like yesterday.
Just my take on it as a fan/horseplayer.

[Rex Phinney]

i just heard that AMERICAN PHAROAH went on a plane back to California. :

I don't know why this would surprise anyone. Baffert did the same thing after the Belmont. He rarely leaves his shippers anywhere, he always brings them back to California. If you check out the travel log Bayern put in last year it was unreal, the horse could have been earning frequent flyer miles.

I would say it decreases the chances the horse runs at Saratoga but wouldn't rule it out altogether.

I'd bet they only want to run him once more before the BC, and if that is the case PARX is the best schedule wise for them. Travers, Pacific Classic, Awesome Again or JCGC don't split the difference of time between now and BC like PARX does.

[dilanesp]

Baffert likes the Pacific Classic,he's won it three of the last six years.
He won it with a 3yo in 1999 (General Challenge).
With Beholder eyeing the race,it would truly be a Classic.
Only a guess,I think he goes in that direction.

I don't think there's much chance of AP running in the Pacific Classic (though I hope I am wrong), but honestly, if AP goes, Beholder almost certainly runs somewhere else (perhaps the Woodward?).

[dilanesp]

You should go read the article by Bill Finley at ESPN, it's a damn joke. He claims the horse should run in front of real fans, New Yorkers, and basically says racing anywhere but Saratoga is a waste of time.

He has run his last two races in NY/NJ, he hasn't run a race in California since last fall. Considering this is his home base I think they need to run him at Del Mar or they could run him in the Travers then the Awesome Again at Santa Anita.

Truthfully I think they will run him at Parx and then the BCC. Big $$$ to run there, extra time between races and he only has to face older once.

I'm totally fine with Saratoga fans. While it isn't my favorite track, those people show up every year and support racing big. So if Baffert did ship to Saratoga I would be sincerely happy for those fans.

On the other hand, if he went to Belmont Park, he'd probably draw 15,000 or so, at best. "Real fans" indeed. :)

[Rex Phinney]

I don't think there's much chance of AP running in the Pacific Classic (though I hope I am wrong), but honestly, if AP goes, Beholder almost certainly runs somewhere else (perhaps the Woodward?).

You clearly didn't see the owners comments after the Hirsch. Running against AP only increases the chances they try the Pacific Classic.

[cj]

I'm totally fine with Saratoga fans. While it isn't my favorite track, those people show up every year and support racing big. So if Baffert did ship to Saratoga I would be sincerely happy for those fans.

On the other hand, if he went to Belmont Park, he'd probably draw 15,000 or so, at best. "Real fans" indeed. :)

No chance at this point he would draw only 15k.

[dilanesp]

I am not saying right or wrong.Just pointing out that Penny Tweedy knowing the horse was being retired chose to run him and not avoid races. Secretarit,lost to older horses in the Whitney,by passing the easier Travers spot. Affirmed and Seattle Slew ran less as 3yo,but did run at 4.

Secretariat got a huge weight break in the Whitney. His post TC career was basically designed to keep weight off his back. That's why he ran in a bunch of weird races. (Whitney, the two grass races, the two races created for him.)

[dilanesp]

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/next-for-pharoahs-connections-seeking-money-or-legacy/#



Again, as stated yesterday, hope to see him in the Travers....

Castaway, get ready, don't go postal on me. I'm dropping a bomb here. ;) At the risk of irritating you and those who are residents of Pennsylvania.

Gentlemen, I'm sorry, but I don't think PARX has ever really been on the short list. PARX is bush league. :lol:

When considering the importance of the legacy of this long awaited Triple Crown champion. This stuff goes in the history books forever. Now, the money becomes a bit less important as he rolls on to victory, so use common sense. Where would you rather run for history's sake--Saratoga, Belmont (again), DelMar, or PARX?

Del Mar. The Travers isn't nearly what it once was (at one time, it used to the race where all the major horses from the TC next met), and the JCGC has been reduced to a prep for the BC Classic. Parx I don't even have to talk about (though I still think that's where he ends up).

Of the four races, the one race that actually means something in its own right is the Pacific Classic, which is one of the big three Southern California handicap division races.

[dilanesp]

Arrogant? Remove the plank from thy own eye... :lol:

I never, ever proclaim California tracks to be the center of the universe. I do think that we have had historically excellent stakes racing, but obviously New York and Florida have had that too.

And, indeed, I support things like New York hosting the Breeders' Cup sometimes, and I continue to claim that Belmont and Aqueduct are both great places to see a horse race.

Some New York fans, however, seem to think that (1) their stakes calendar is the only stakes calendar that matters, and (2) that the Breeders' Cup didn't change anything in racing.

The bias on these things is one way-- no California racing fan thinks about California racing in the way some New York types think about New York racing.

[dilanesp]

No chance at this point he would draw only 15k.

Really?

Even Cigar drew poorly at Belmont. Really poorly. And he filled every other track he ran at to the rafters. There's no evidence that Belmont Park can draw a good crowd for anything unrelated to the Belmont Stakes. They haven't drawn one for at least 30 years.

[SuperPickle]

So the backstretch gossip at both Monmouth and Saratoga is the Travers is done a deal.

Apparently his stud deal includes $$$ kickers for wins in the Travers and BC Classic. He gets no extra Coolmore money for anything else so it makes no sense to race there. There's no way he wheels him back against older horses in the Pacific on three weeks rest. That's a fantasy.

While the PA Derby is probably the perfect stop for him competitive and timing wise (it more or less splits the time between the Haskell and BC evenly and it would probably be EVEN weaker than the Haskell.)

So I'm 99.999% sure its either the Travers or they wait for the PA Derby.

[Grits]

Again, gentlemen. One more time. These links were put in place hours ago. Let's read something besides ourselves. It helps.

They've said NO. They are not going to race him against older prior to the BCC.

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/next-for-pharoahs-connections-seeking-money-or-legacy/#

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/93385/pharoah-heads-home-next-race-undecided

[OTM Al]

[/B]
One thing Saratoga has going for it is the fact that a Triple Crown winner has never also won the Travers.

Incorrect. Whirlaway demolished two extremely overmatched opponents in 1941. Got the below in a benefit auction and ended up giving it to the HoF as it was a better copy than the one they had (and sadly still have) on display

[cj]

Again, gentlemen. One more time. These links were put in place hours ago. Let's read something besides ourselves. It helps.

They've said NO. They are not going to race him against older prior to the BCC.

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/next-for-pharoahs-connections-seeking-money-or-legacy/#

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/93385/pharoah-heads-home-next-race-undecided

Always good to stay informed, but we also know plans can and do often change in this game. Del Mar offers $5 million for the Pacific Classic and he'll race against older! :)

[SuperPickle]

Always good to stay informed, but we also know plans can and do often change in this game. Del Mar offers $5 million for the Pacific Classic and he'll race against older! :)

Not if the Coolmore Travers bonus is $5million.

Oh what we'd all give to know what's in that deal.

My hunch is seven figure bonus for the Travers win and eight for a BC win.

Between the stud deal kickers and the stud fees/valuation of both AP and PON Zayat could easily have $20-$30 million the line on Halloween.

[BlinkersOn]

Why do people think Baffert hates Saratoga? Point Given won the Travers...Bayern is no Point Given. Point Given was no American Pharoah.

Point Given was hurt in that race, and was retired not long afterward. He never raced again. That's why Baffert thinks he's jinxed at Saratoga. I've heard people wonder why he would go to Del Mar. Del Mar is home to AP. It's where he's back at today. He wouldn't have to travel at all for the Pacific Classic, but I still think it will be the Pennsylvania Derby. I guess we get to speculate till we know definitely. I want to see him break a sweat and meet up with Texas Red and Honor Code in the BC Classic. I think he's still going to win. I think the horse is really something special. I do believe Baffert has input on where to run him. Zayat owns him, but he trust Baffert to place AP in the race where he will win the most I think. It isn't Baffert that is greedy. He and Espinoza donated their winnings from the TC to charities. Zayat is the greedy one.

[Rex Phinney]

Not if the Coolmore Travers bonus is $5million.

Oh what we'd all give to know what's in that deal.

My hunch is seven figure bonus for the Travers win and eight for a BC win.

Between the stud deal kickers and the stud fees/valuation of both AP and PON Zayat could easily have $20-$30 million the line on Halloween.

If there were any 8 figure bonuses to the deal, it would have been for the TC, I can't see another $10,000,000 anywhere else.

My guess is $1,000,000 Travers bonus and 2-3 million for the BC classic. Considering Zayat gets the purse money from these races plus the flat fee up front before the horse had won any of this, it seems logical to me.

[Grits]

Always good to stay informed, but we also know plans can and do often change in this game. Del Mar offers $5 million for the Pacific Classic and he'll race against older! :)

Reading your post and Pickle's two posts--good food for thought....with a little side thought.

Think of all the horses Pletcher has trained for Tabor, Magneir, et al, aka Coolmore--who we figure has brokered, and is controlling this deal to a very large degree. Don't y'all know Pletcher wishes he'd had this colt in his barn? That he'd been the 12th Triple Crown winning trainer. He would've been given yearly seasons to the breeding shed for the rest of his life. ....

Oh, the irony, all those years, all those high priced Coolmore horses, some of whom got "Pletcherized." :lol:

[cj]

Reading your post and Pickle's two posts--good food for thought....with a little side thought.

Think of all the horses Pletcher has trained for Tabor, Magneir, et al, aka Coolmore--who we figure has brokered, and is controlling this deal to a very large degree. Don't y'all know Pletcher wishes he'd had this colt in his barn? That he'd been the 12th Triple Crown winning trainer. He would've been given yearly seasons to the breeding shed for the rest of his life. ....

Oh, the irony, all those years, all those high priced Coolmore horses, some of whom got "Pletcherized." :lol:

If Pletcher had this horse I don't think it would be the story we have today. Just my opinion of course!

[surfdog89]

I think he will show up in the Breeders Cup Classic.......after I heard what the owners said......

[Grits]

If Pletcher had this horse I don't think it would be the story we have today. Just my opinion of course!

Me either. But the irony is killer. Don't know where I first read that term...Pletcherized. It's solid though.

[PaceAdvantage]

Really?

Even Cigar drew poorly at Belmont. Really poorly. And he filled every other track he ran at to the rafters. There's no evidence that Belmont Park can draw a good crowd for anything unrelated to the Belmont Stakes. They haven't drawn one for at least 30 years.What did Holy Bull draw for the 1994 Woodward?

[PaceAdvantage]

If Pletcher had this horse I don't think it would be the story we have today. Just my opinion of course!Good thing horses stopped dropping dead for Baffert (had to throw this in before SRU did).

[Tor Ekman]

I don't care where next is, as long as wherever it is, the Dorsmeaux brothers are there waiting with Texas Red.

[EMD4ME]

I don't care where next is, as long as wherever it is, the Dorsmeaux brothers are there waiting with Texas Red.

Do you think Kent will slip AP a drink before the race as his strategy? :lol:

[BlinkersOn]

I don't care where next is, as long as wherever it is, the Dorsmeaux brothers are there waiting with Texas Red.

That is the only 3-year-old that can give AP a good race. He was my Derby horse till he got hurt, and I'm thrilled to see him back. That would be a good race for sure.

[Grits]

Good thing horses stopped dropping dead for Baffert (had to throw this in before SRU did).

Just to be clear. ;)

I haven't forgotten that. One can forgive something, but don't ever forget it. To do so is a mistake.

I can't really say that I've forgiven Baffert for his lack of comment on the horse's deaths. I will say, I've never seen this man like he is with this horse though. Not ever. The cockiness is gone, replaced by gratitude and tremendous care.

[PaceAdvantage]

A heart attack can do that to a man...

[jpjpicks]

1st this horse want to be great he needs to now show he can beat older #1 do the Pacific classic then go to Bel for the JCGC if he can win both an then win the BCC then an only then I will think of him of being great like big john Henry

[Grits]

A heart attack can do that to a man...

You're exactly right, sure can. And it's done something to this one. Big time.

[cj]

That is the only 3-year-old that can give AP a good race. He was my Derby horse till he got hurt, and I'm thrilled to see him back. That would be a good race for sure.


That would be a fabulous race for about 6 or 7 furlongs.

[BlinkersOn]

You're exactly right, sure can. And it's done something to this one. Big time.

You would never think a heart attack is a good thing to happen, but it caused a 180 with Bob Baffert. He used to be one of my least favorite trainers, and now he's right up there with my favorites. He is so much more compassionate and caring then he used to be. He sure has a special spot in his heart for AP, and that's obvious. He was choking up yesterday just talking about him. He's really changed for the better.

[EMD4ME]

That would be a fabulous race for about 6 or 7 furlongs.

Not true CJ! :D

Texas Red won't be close to him early so it will never be a race.

[cj]

Not true CJ! :D

Texas Red won't be close to him early so it will never be a race.

His early speed has picked up, I think he'd be able to see him at least.

[EMD4ME]

It's not PA!!!!!

YIPPEE.

Zayat said on twitter, no Penn Derby.

[EMD4ME]

His early speed has picked up, I think he'd be able to see him at least.


You're assuming Texas Red has good long sighted vision :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Fingal]

I've gone through all 8 pages here ( So far it's 8) & surprisingly haven't seen one post repeating what Tom Hammond mentioned briefly on the NBC broadcast, that Monmouth is working to see if they can create a million+ dollar race for Pharoah in September as a final prep before the BC.

As it's been said that Baffert has a distaste for Saratoga, he has the same amount of like for Monmouth.

Personally I'd like to see AP in the Awesome Again. There was talk of a Pacific Classic/Awesome Again/BC Classic bonus, but if the Pacific Classic is out because of that older horse bit, I wouldn't doubt Stronach would do all he could to make an Awesome Again/ BC Classic bonus work.

[cj]

It's not PA!!!!!

YIPPEE.

Zayat said on twitter, no Penn Derby.

If he sticks to that will be interesting. That is a long gap between the Classic and the Travers.

[cj]

Things can change, but as of now I've seen the owner rule out both the Pacific Classic and the PA Derby. What is left, Travers or made up Monmouth race?

[Grits]

I've gone through all 8 pages here ( So far it's 8) & surprisingly haven't seen one post repeating what Tom Hammond mentioned briefly on the NBC broadcast, that Monmouth is working to see if they can create a million+ dollar race for Pharoah in September as a final prep before the BC.

As it's been said that Baffert has a distaste for Saratoga, he has the same amount of like for Monmouth.

Personally I'd like to see AP in the Awesome Again. There was talk of a Pacific Classic/Awesome Again/BC Classic bonus, but if the Pacific Classic is out because of that older horse bit, I wouldn't doubt Stronach would do all he could to make an Awesome Again/ BC Classic bonus work.

This has been mentioned. It's in the links provided, or mentioned by a poster in these two threads about AP's race, and his next out race. ;)

Here ya go, Fingal. In one of the links.

This year the Pennsylvania Derby Sept. 19 at Parx Racing (http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/racetracks/86/parx-racing) could be an enticing target for American Pharoah. And Monmouth officials told the Asbury Park Press they are working to put together a million-dollar September race to draw a return visit from the Triple Crown winner.

[classhandicapper]

They have the same dilemma other connections have had since the start of the Breeder's Cup era.

Do you try to run the table with the best horse or do you try to increase the probability that the horse will be fresh and able to fire its peak in the Classic?

They have a once in a lifetime horse. So the temptation has to be to just bury everyone in the best available race every month on the schedule. But if you are shipping all over the country running in the toughest race every month, IMO the chances of being over the top for the Classic are higher than running one more time and then going into the Classic.

It's not an easy call.

Personally, I think the gap between the Travers and the Classic is too long. If they go to the Travers, they may have to run again, but I don't think they should go out of their way for another tough spot.

How about Travers, Awesome Again (give the CA fans a chance to see him) and then the Classic?

That seems like a reasonable compromise.

I don't think skipping the Travers is a terrible idea either (I already have plans for the Travers after seeing that performance in the Haskell). The PA Derby is the best timing for one race and then the Classic, but that seems a little weak.

[uncbossfan]

Any chance Keeneland creates a race Oct 3rd on their fall stars weekend for AP? Let him get around the track once before the BC then he can stay stabled at Kee or back at CD where he seemed comfortable.

Regardless I just want him healthy come oct 31st. Good luck big fella!!

[nijinski]

You're assuming Texas Red has good long sighted vision :lol: :lol: :lol:
We also have to assume Texas Red can put two winning races together. Lol

[raybo]

It's looking more and more likely that we see AP in the special race at Monmouth and not again until the JCGC. He looks in fine shape, after that timed and paid workout in the Haskell, to go in the Travers, but I just don't see them running again that soon. I think now, he runs a race in September and again in the JCGC, as a freshening before the BCC.

Personally, I'd love to see him run 3 races before the BCC, but doubt seriously that he will. And, the BCC will probably be his last race.

[comet52]

I'm guessing the Travers for three reasons:

-Coolmore bonus

-rumors at Monmouth

-this quote: “I’m not worried about Saratoga, or the surface or anything like that,” Baffert said. “I’m concerned with ‘Pharoah’ being at the top of his game. Only he can tell me by the way he works.”

To me that sounds like the choice is the Travers if the horse is ok, if not they probably shoot for the PA Derby. But I'd have to think he's fine.

[ronsmac]

I'm guessing the Travers for three reasons:

-Coolmore bonus

-rumors at Monmouth

-this quote: “I’m not worried about Saratoga, or the surface or anything like that,” Baffert said. “I’m concerned with ‘Pharoah’ being at the top of his game. Only he can tell me by the way he works.”

To me that sounds like the choice is the Travers if the horse is ok, if not they probably shoot for the PA Derby. But I'd have to think he's fine.I forgot about the Travers bonus, it appears coolmore gives a bonus for the Haskell , BC , and horse of the year also.

[Pensacola Pete]

If it is not the Travers, they are making a huge mistake.

Only Whirlaway has won the Triple Crown and Travers, American Pharoah deserves the opportunity.

Only three Triple Crown winners have raced in the Travers: Gallant Fox was second to outsider Jim Dandy, Whirlaway won, and Affirmed finished first but was disqualified to second for coming over on Alydar.

[cj]

'You know how Bob (Baffert) trains.. If the horse (American Pharoah) is ready, we'll go to the Travers' -- A. Zayat

[SuperPickle]

So it appears to be a done deal. Travers and Classic.

I don't get the argument that the time between the Travers and Classic is too long. It's essentially the same spacing as the Haskell and the Belmont. He ran 1:47.4 a 109 Beyer and 131 timeform while being eased at the eight pole.

Between that and the fact training horses up to a race on 60-90 days is one of Baffert's strongest moves he can go right to the classic.

[Rex Phinney]

How about Travers, Awesome Again (give the CA fans a chance to see him) and then the Classic?

That seems like a reasonable compromise.



I think right now this looks most reasonable. I think they are going to run in the Travers, and if they do you have to start wondering how many times they want to ship him, knowing they have todo it for BC also.

I think they might do the Travers and then wait til BC also. It's only 8 weeks and if he looks as good in the Travers as he did in the Haskell, time off wont matter anyway. He came back well in the spring off a layoff and off a short layoff for the Haskell. Doesn't seem to bother him.

The one snag of course is, the field for the Classic is not going to be anything like he saw for the Haskell. LOL

[ronsmac]

So it appears to be a done deal. Travers and Classic.

I don't get the argument that the time between the Travers and Classic is too long. It's essentially the same spacing as the Haskell and the Belmont. He ran 1:47.4 a 109 Beyer and 131 timeform while being eased at the eight pole.

Between that and the fact training horses up to a race on 60-90 days is one of Baffert's strongest moves he can go right to the classic.I can't speak for CJ's numbers, but Beyers are virtually useless at this point. Especially route Beyers.

[raybo]

I think right now this looks most reasonable. I think they are going to run in the Travers, and if they do you have to start wondering how many times they want to ship him, knowing they have todo it for BC also.

I think they might do the Travers and then wait til BC also. It's only 8 weeks and if he looks as good in the Travers as he did in the Haskell, time off wont matter anyway. He came back well in the spring off a layoff and off a short layoff for the Haskell. Doesn't seem to bother him.

The one snag of course is, the field for the Classic is not going to be anything like he saw for the Haskell. LOL

If AP runs in the Travers, everything after that depends on how he comes out of that race. If he wins and comes out of the race fine he could run in the JCGC, which appears will be only another paid workout, as a tuneup for the BCC. Sure, he could rest between the Travers and the BCC, but I don't see the connections doing that, they want AP to be seen, not just talked about. To them it's about his image going forward, after his racing career. If he is healthy and happy, I think they run him between the Travers and the BCC. But, if there are any doubts, the ultimate goal is victory in the BCC, so whatever that entails is what they'll do.

[classhandicapper]

So it appears to be a done deal. Travers and Classic.

I don't get the argument that the time between the Travers and Classic is too long. It's essentially the same spacing as the Haskell and the Belmont. He ran 1:47.4 a 109 Beyer and 131 timeform while being eased at the eight pole.

Between that and the fact training horses up to a race on 60-90 days is one of Baffert's strongest moves he can go right to the classic.

I don't know if it's a problem so much as I don't think it's ideal. There's a difference between being sharp enough to win the Haskell and being sharp enough to win at 10F in the Classic. That's just an opinion. I don't have data on that.

[cj]

I don't know if it's a problem so much as I don't think it's ideal. There's a difference between being sharp enough to win the Haskell and being sharp enough to win at 10F in the Classic. That's just an opinion. I don't have data on that.

Most years I'd agree, but what is out there to even challenge him right now? Tonalist? Effinex? Beholder? They can't hold a candle to him.

[RacingFan1992]

Well Zayat says he's in the Travers Stakes but Baffert has last say.

[OntheRail]

Zayat: American Pharoah to Run in Travers :jump: :jump:


Owner Ahmed Zayat said he would like to see Triple Crown winner American Pharoah make his next start in the Travers Stakes (gr. I) Aug. 29 at Saratoga Race Course because it would help define the colt's legacy if he were to win the "Midsummer Derby".

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/93412/zayat-american-pharoah-to-run-in-travers

[classhandicapper]

Most years I'd agree, but what is out there to even challenge him right now? Tonalist? Effinex? Beholder? They can't hold a candle to him.

We'll see who runs well in the Whitney this weekend. I'll be there for that one too. :ThmbUp:

[Rex Phinney]

If AP runs in the Travers, everything after that depends on how he comes out of that race. If he wins and comes out of the race fine he could run in the JCGC, which appears will be only another paid workout, as a tuneup for the BCC. Sure, he could rest between the Travers and the BCC, but I don't see the connections doing that, they want AP to be seen, not just talked about. To them it's about his image going forward, after his racing career. If he is healthy and happy, I think they run him between the Travers and the BCC. But, if there are any doubts, the ultimate goal is victory in the BCC, so whatever that entails is what they'll do.

I don't think the JCGC will even be considered, if they do indeed run in the Travers the horse will be on his 4th and 5th cross country flights in 3 months. Add in the JCGC and the BCC and he is looking at 8 cross country flights in 5 months when the horse goes to the gate at Keeneland.

Right now I'd guess of everyone Mike Pegram has this thing nailed when he said they would go where the money is, there is no kicker in the stud deal for PARX, Pacific Classic, JCGC or Awesome Again, so those appear to be out.

Travers then BCC.

[classhandicapper]

Derby, Preakness, Belmont, Haskell, Travers, BC Classic is epc if he can pull it off. :eek:

[cj]

Derby, Preakness, Belmont, Haskell, Travers, BC Classic is epc if he can pull it off. :eek:

Rebel, Arkansas Derby isn't a bad start either.

[classhandicapper]

From DRF+ about AP

American Pharoah usually walks for three days after a race before returning to the track to train. Baffert said he likely would walk American Pharoah for four days.

“He didn’t get back here until 7 last night,” Baffert said while watching workouts Tuesday. “You could tell he was wiped out. It was pretty hot and humid there.”

[raybo]

I don't think the JCGC will even be considered, if they do indeed run in the Travers the horse will be on his 4th and 5th cross country flights in 3 months. Add in the JCGC and the BCC and he is looking at 8 cross country flights in 5 months when the horse goes to the gate at Keeneland.

Right now I'd guess of everyone Mike Pegram has this thing nailed when he said they would go where the money is, there is no kicker in the stud deal for PARX, Pacific Classic, JCGC or Awesome Again, so those appear to be out.

Travers then BCC.

As far as I know, AP has no problem shipping, he's one of those horses that just takes things in stride. The fact is, none of us knows for sure what they will decide, we don't even know for sure that he will run in the Travers. This is all speculation, and everyone has their own wishes and opinions.

[Grits]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/93412/zayat-wants-pharoah-to-run-in-travers

Don't know if this report from BH has been posted....been out since mid afternoon. ;)

Oops, sorry, this was posted earlier by On The Rail. My bad, I should've read further back posting.

[Redboard]

Zayat: American Pharoah to Run in Travers :jump: :jump:






They changed the headline to"Zayat Wants 'Pharoah' to Run in Travers"

[tucker6]

They changed the headline to"Zayat Wants 'Pharoah' to Run in Travers"
Is there much difference between the two?

[Grits]

They changed the headline to"Zayat Wants 'Pharoah' to Run in Travers"

Baffert was contacted by phone, later today.

http://blog.timesunion.com/horseracing/baffert-premature-to-say-american-pharoah-coming-to-saratoga/11360/

Too, I read that the flight home, the heat and humidity of New Jersey has caused Baffert to make a schedule change. Feeling that AP is pretty knocked out right now, he's planning to have him walk the shedrow for the next four days instead of the usual three.

Its obvious, he doesn't want to jeopardize the horse. And the last word, may well be Baffert's.. :)

[Kash$]

At first I thought Pacific Classic..I'm more convinced now..
Don't think Baffert is shipping back east til the Classic hope I'm wrong I want to see him run in the Travers

[dilanesp]

FWIW, i am hearing Del Mar was told they are going to the Travers.

[depalma113]

Baffert, when talking about Gimme Da Lute said on Steve Byk's show that Del Mar's new surface is deep and very tiring, and he was probably sending him to the PA Derby for his next race. He thinks he's better going two turns and doesn't want to run him on that surface again.

That deep and very tiring statement to me seems to be the biggest clue that American Pharoah is going to the Travers.

[Robert Fischer]

Baffert, when talking about Gimme Da Lute said on Steve Byk's show that Del Mar's new surface is deep and very tiring, and he was probably sending him to the PA Derby for his next race. He thinks he's better going two turns and doesn't want to run him on that surface again.

That deep and very tiring statement to me seems to be the biggest clue that American Pharoah is going to the Travers.

That, and the owner publicly declaring that he wants to run in the Travers.

[burnsy]

That, and the owner publicly declaring that he wants to run in the Travers.


I hear that and agree. Baffert may not even want to run here. But people never seem to understand that these owners are very powerful people...I'm talking about all the big time owners in general here. This guy has been itching to send this horse to the Travers for a couple of months now. If he gets it in his head, Baffert will do as he is told......that's how it really works folks. The owner is the boss, he hires the trainer and they are head strong people, that's how they do well and get money to buy race horses. Forget Baffert, Ahmed Zayat Is Saratoga's best hope. If he gets "head strong" that horse will be here whether Baffert wants it or not. People seem to think that owners do every thing the trainer says, often times they do....but people like this let it be known that the trainer will do what the owner wants them to do. He (Zayat) already has kicked one big name trainer to the curb, do you really think he likes to take "orders"?......I don't.

[ronsmac]

Now that I see no horse has ever won the Travers and the BCC, I hope American Pharoah pulls off the double and makes more history.

[nijinski]

I hear that and agree. Baffert may not even want to run here. But people never seem to understand that these owners are very powerful people...I'm talking about all the big time owners in general here. This guy has been itching to send this horse to the Travers for a couple of months now. If he gets it in his head, Baffert will do as he is told......that's how it really works folks. The owner is the boss, he hires the trainer and they are head strong people, that's how they do well and get money to buy race horses. Forget Baffert, Ahmed Zayat Is Saratoga's best hope. If he gets "head strong" that horse will be here whether Baffert wants it or not. People seem to think that owners do every thing the trainer says, often times they do....but people like this let it be known that the trainer will do what the owner wants them to do. He (Zayat) already has kicked one big name trainer to the curb, do you really think he likes to take "orders"?......I don't.
Zayat is not likely kicking his TC winning trainer to the curb so fast .

[SuperPickle]

I hear that and agree. Baffert may not even want to run here. But people never seem to understand that these owners are very powerful people...I'm talking about all the big time owners in general here. This guy has been itching to send this horse to the Travers for a couple of months now. If he gets it in his head, Baffert will do as he is told......that's how it really works folks. The owner is the boss, he hires the trainer and they are head strong people, that's how they do well and get money to buy race horses. Forget Baffert, Ahmed Zayat Is Saratoga's best hope. If he gets "head strong" that horse will be here whether Baffert wants it or not. People seem to think that owners do every thing the trainer says, often times they do....but people like this let it be known that the trainer will do what the owner wants them to do. He (Zayat) already has kicked one big name trainer to the curb, do you really think he likes to take "orders"?......I don't.


Here's my two cents on it. The Coolmore deal has been in place for a bit and Baffert knows the terms so going to the Travers can't be a shock to him. This isn't Art Sherman post-Dubai. I'm sure Baffert saw the Travers decision coming. He was not ambushed.

That being said I think at this point in his career Baffert would prefer not to run horses in Saratoga stakes. I think when he was younger and still expanding his business it was important. Now winning at Saratoga isn't going to get him any new opportunities. I also think he knows that its VERY hard to ship in and win at Saratoga. Almost all the graded stakes are run by horses who train at Saratoga. It's very hard to train a horse at Del Mar and ship them in and win. However this is a once in a generation animal so its different.

I'm less shocked about the Travers than I am Baffert didn't send him from Monmouth to there. I'm dying to get him up there and see what the clockers say about his movement over the surface. He's probably 5-10 lengths better than Texas Red or Frosted on his best BUT if he doesn't take to the surface that advantage goes away REAL quick and he's vulnerable.

[EMD4ME]

Here's my two cents on it. The Coolmore deal has been in place for a bit and Baffert knows the terms so going to the Travers can't be a shock to him. This isn't Art Sherman post-Dubai. I'm sure Baffert saw the Travers decision coming. He was not ambushed.

That being said I think at this point in his career Baffert would prefer not to run horses in Saratoga stakes. I think when he was younger and still expanding his business it was important. Now winning at Saratoga isn't going to get him any new opportunities. I also think he knows that its VERY hard to ship in and win at Saratoga. Almost all the graded stakes are run by horses who train at Saratoga. It's very hard to train a horse at Del Mar and ship them in and win. However this is a once in a generation animal so its different.

I'm less shocked about the Travers than I am Baffert didn't send him from Monmouth to there. I'm dying to get him up there and see what the clockers say about his movement over the surface. He's probably 5-10 lengths better than Texas Red or Frosted on his best BUT if he doesn't take to the surface that advantage goes away REAL quick and he's vulnerable.

As Delta Lover would say: No excuses.

Run in the Travers and overcome it all.

As you said: this is a once in a generation animal.

Make it happen Baffert!

Everyone deserves to see just how awesome this horse can be.

[Secondbest]

Baffert was on wfan radio yesterday.He said he' ll let the horse tell him when he's ready.He sent on to say AP needs to put weight back on and that the face was harder than it looked.He had to run faster early.Baffert when asked what's next said he would like one more race before BC two maybe. And he won't know anything for "a few weeks". My guess is forget the Travers and look for a race halfway from the haskell to the BC.

[whodoyoulike]

Baffert was on wfan radio yesterday.He said he' ll let the horse tell him when he's ready.He sent on to say AP needs to put weight back on and that the face was harder than it looked.He had to run faster early.Baffert when asked what's next said he would like one more race before BC two maybe. And he won't know anything for "a few weeks". My guess is forget the Travers and look for a race halfway from the haskell to the BC.

I've heard Baffert make this statement before regarding a lot of his horses. I suspect he speaks a little horse but, different from my dialect.

[OntheRail]

Baffert Indicates Travers Next for 'Pharoah'


http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/93560/baffert-indicates-travers-next-for-pharoah

[EMD4ME]

Baffert Indicates Travers Next for 'Pharoah'


http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/93560/baffert-indicates-travers-next-for-pharoah


NICE!!!

Can't wait!

[Stillriledup]

What would be the other option for him if he didnt Race in Travers?

[cj]

What would be the other option for him if he didnt Race in Travers?

Jockey Club Gold Cup. Awesome Again. Woodward. PA Derby.

[Grits]

I hope it's Saratoga. I want to see him again. :)

Can you all imagine--not just the paddock, but the horse path? The many people that will be against those fences, crowded in so closely. The security surrounding him on that walk to the paddock will be phenomenal.

[classhandicapper]

My clubhouse Travers tickets are looking interesting on Stubhub. :lol:

[Grits]

Baffert's at the FS sale. He discusses AP.

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/thoroughbred-racing/baffert-on-travers-pharoah-going-to-have-to-really-convince-me-to-run-there/


American Pharoah is a graduate of Fasig-Tipton’s Saratoga Selected Yearlings sale, having sold for $300,000 in 2013. Hip No. 85, he was consigned by Taylor Made Sales Agency and purchased by Ingordo Bloodstock.

“I had to come over and see if maybe there’s another American Pharoah in here that everybody missed last time,” Baffert said. “He was right there and everybody looked at him and walked away from him. All the geniuses missed him.”