Daily Variant users

[highnote]

DeltaLover and I were discussing the need for daily variants.

He said he could set up a server where a community of horseplayers could upload and download open source daily variants for various racetracks. The daily variants could then be incorporated into homegrown and possibly commercial software packages. Horseplayers would be free use the variants however they see fit.

If you have comments to make about open source daily variants your feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks!

PS

I'm happy to share my daily variants and have posted my Saratoga variants here. However, it would be great to have a convenient place to upload and download the variants that could easily be located by users.

[cj]

Wouldn't a better starting point to be to collect basic data that all users need before adding subjective stuff?

[highnote]

Wouldn't a better starting point to be to collect basic data that all users need before adding subjective stuff?


That might be a better starting point. I'm not sure what you mean by collecting basic data that all users need. Do you mean result chart data? If so, I assume people who are interested in participating would already have their own collection of basic data and if they don't there are plenty of places to get it.

[cj]

That might be a better starting point. I'm not sure what you mean by collecting basic data that all users need. Do you mean result chart data? If so, I assume people who are interested in participating would already have their own collection of basic data and if they don't there are plenty of places to get it.

I'm talking about people collecting data on their own, sans Equibase, and sharing it publicly. Most of the stuff we pay for is available by watching replays.

[highnote]

I'm talking about people collecting data on their own, sans Equibase, and sharing it publicly.


Like trip notes and biases?

[cj]

Like trip notes and biases?

No, like times, beaten lengths, gate and rail placement, payoffs, odds, etc. The above would be another example of subjective data. Of course all that could be added eventually. I thought the goal here was to avoid paying to be honest. I'm not saying it would work, I'm just surprised nobody has tried. Could racetracks bar anyone other than Equibase employees from collecting data? I doubt it, but I really don't know.

[highnote]

No, like times, beaten lengths, gate and rail placement, payoffs, odds, etc. The above would be another example of subjective data. Of course all that could be added eventually. I thought the goal here was to avoid paying to be honest. I'm not saying it would work, I'm just surprised nobody has tried. Could racetracks bar anyone other than Equibase employees from collecting data? I doubt it, but I really don't know.


My friend Nick Mordin used to make his own past performance data of British races by watching the live races and then writing down what he saw and then transcribing the info to index cards. So yeah, anyone could collect data.

I don't think the idea is to avoid paying. The idea is to share useful information between like minded handicappers to create synergy.

For example, if one handicapper shares her daily variants for a few tracks and 10 other people share their daily variants for 10 tracks then all of a sudden a handicapper can make her own figures for 30 tracks instead of 3.

Maybe 5 different handicappers share Saratoga daily variants. Handicapper "A" can then choose to download the variants made by the person that he finds most useful. Or perhaps he downloads a couple different sets of variants and combines them, or averages them or finds some other creative use for them.

There might not be any interest in the idea. So far, you're the only one who has responded. So we'll see. Usually, there is only a small percentage of people who create content. That's just the way it is. So it might take time to find those people who want to participate -- if those people even exist!

[cj]

My friend Nick Mordin used to make his own past performance data of British races by watching the live races and then writing down what he saw and then transcribing the info to index cards. So yeah, anyone could collect data.

I don't think the idea is to avoid paying. The idea is to share useful information between like minded handicappers to create synergy.

For example, if one handicapper shares her daily variants for a few tracks and 10 other people share their daily variants for 10 tracks then all of a sudden a handicapper can make her own figures for 30 tracks instead of 3.

Maybe 5 different handicappers share Saratoga daily variants. Handicapper "A" can then choose to download the variants made by the person that he finds most useful. Or perhaps he downloads a couple different sets of variants and combines them, or averages them or finds some other creative use for them.

There might not be any interest in the idea. So far, you're the only one who has responded. So we'll see. Usually, there is only a small percentage of people who create content. That's just the way it is. So it might take time to find those people who want to participate -- if those people even exist!

OK, I see now. I could see that working between a few sharp handicappers. I think it is probably already being done in private.

By the way, what is so hard about doing 30 tracks a day? I've been doing it for a decade! :)

I met Nick at Saratoga a few years back along with Dr. Z and a few others. Maybe you were there too. Hung out in the Carousel that day with the group.

[classhandicapper]

For this to work well I think everyone would have to be using the same speed figure charts otherwise there might be a lot of confusion.

For example, if one contributor has the routes and sprints lined up differently than another contributor, they would typically provide different variants even on days when they agreed on the final time figures.

I think the best approach is small teams of experienced players that trust the quality of each other's work splitting the workload and sharing information on their specialty. Then you could have 2-3 very good figure guys doing figures, 2-3 very good bias guys doing bias notes, etc....

[highnote]

For this to work well I think everyone would have to be using the same speed figure charts otherwise there might be a lot of confusion.

For example, if one contributor has the routes and sprints lined up differently than another contributor, they would typically provide different variants even on days when they agreed on the final time figures.

I think the best approach is small teams of experienced players that trust the quality of each other's work splitting the workload and sharing information on their specialty. Then you could have 2-3 very good figure guys doing figures, 2-3 very good bias guys doing bias notes, etc....


I agree. My early thinking is that the format would be to for a handicapper to upload a file with, say, 100 columns of data. She can put anything in those columns she wants. The handicapper would supply a description of the fields. If other handicappers find the info useful they could download them and incorporate them into their methods.

Or if I have a set of daily variants and other variant makers have a set, we can coordinate uploading them using a common set of standards, protocols, specifications and so forth. This group of handicappers could still use the 100 column format and maybe 90 columns are empty, but the 10 that use would be in the same format.

These are minor issues. The community of content creators and users will ultimately decide upon the most efficient protocols that will serve the needs of the greatest number of people.

As I think about it, my prediction is that there would be several handicappers uploading data and a few would emerge as the most popular. That doesn't mean a less popular handicapper does not provide good data. It only means that a few popular handicappers provide data that a wider range of people find useful. For example, there might be data that when incorporated into some esoteric algorithm can produce nice profits, but if very few people understand how to use it or even have the tools to run the algo then it wouldn't be popular. On the other hand, a handicapper might upload very accurate daily variants. They might be downloaded frequently by a lot of people to make speed figures. However, most of us know that speed figures alone don't always produce profits in today's betting markets, but that doesn't mean speed figures are not useful.

It's hard to say if this idea will bear fruit, but it's an interesting idea and might be worth trying. If nothing else it is worth discussing.

[highnote]

OK, I see now. I could see that working between a few sharp handicappers. I think it is probably already being done in private.

Handicapping friends who hang out at the track probably have been trading information informally since before the first ever horse race.

By the way, what is so hard about doing 30 tracks a day? I've been doing it for a decade! :)

You're like the Secretariat of figure making -- you make them like a tremendous machine.

I met Nick at Saratoga a few years back along with Dr. Z and a few others. Maybe you were there too. Hung out in the Carousel that day with the group.

Yep. I was there. I introduced you to Z, Mordin and Fotias and another friend from the Sartin board -- Alydar. Actually, Alydar probably introduced me to you.

[cj]

Handicapping friends who hang out at the track probably have been trading information informally since before the first ever horse race.



You're like the Secretariat of figure making -- you make them like a tremendous machine.



Yep. I was there. I introduced you to Z, Mordin and Fotias and another friend from the Sartin board -- Alydar. Actually, Alydar probably introduced me to you.

I thought so, just didn't remember your real name. Hope to see you again!

[classhandicapper]

Handicapping friends who hang out at the track probably have been trading information informally since before the first ever horse race.


A long time ago I had a track buddy that played professionally that I would share information with. I gave him my pace figures to incorporate into whatever else he was doing and he gave me horses that won. :lol:

[cj]

A long time ago I had a track buddy that played professionally that I would share information with. I gave him my pace figures to incorporate into whatever else he was doing and he gave me horses that won. :lol:

It was the least I could do :)

[classhandicapper]

It was the least I could do :)

:lol:

That guy is still playing, but he doesn't go to the track anymore. I used to see him every weekend about 25 years ago. He was there every day. As far as I know he never had a job in his life other than occasional bartending. I run into him at an OTB once in a great while. Most of his best stuff was visual, but his program looked like bunch of Egyptian hieroglyphs after he took his trip notes.