4985 could've became 13000? Ramon Dominguez

[EMD4ME]

Ramon got hurt in January of 2013 at 37 years old with 4985 wins (sorry Chris Kay-they weren't match victories LOL).

If he averaged 320 wins a year for the next 10 years, that would've placed him at 8185 at 47 years old.

If he averaged another 250 wins for another 10 more years, that would've brought him to 10,685 at the age of 57.

Russell Baze is currently going strong at 57 with over 12,000 wins.

I don't find it too far fetched with Ramon's riding style, soft and no need to pump like crazy, that he could've lasted till 60 assuming good health.

Could he have been the winningest jockey of all time?

[ultracapper]

No. Russell Baze is still going strong at 57.

[thaskalos]

Ramon got hurt in January of 2013 at 37 years old with 4985 wins (sorry Chris Kay-they weren't match victories LOL).

If he averaged 320 wins a year for the next 10 years, that would've placed him at 8185 at 47 years old.

If he averaged another 250 wins for another 10 more years, that would've brought him to 10,685 at the age of 57.

Russell Baze is currently going strong at 57 with over 12,000 wins.

I don't find it too far fetched with Ramon's riding style, soft and no need to pump like crazy, that he could've lasted till 60 assuming good health.

Could he have been the winningest jockey of all time?

If I come into your bank looking for a loan...do you promise to make the same sort of projection on my financial statement?

[SuperPickle]

I think the short answer is he could not continue to win at that rate on the top circuit in the U.S. Maybe he went back to Maryland when he got older but NY is simply too tough. There's a reason Baze rides in No. Cal.

Here's the big what if about Ramon. IF he stayed healthy what would the careers of the Ortiz brothers look like. They essentially came on the scene right as Ramon got hurt. They picked up a lot of his business and Irad got his agent.

That's what I'll always wonder.

[EMD4ME]

I think the short answer is he could not continue to win at that rate on the top circuit in the U.S. Maybe he went back to Maryland when he got older but NY is simply too tough. There's a reason Baze rides in No. Cal.

Here's the big what if about Ramon. IF he stayed healthy what would the careers of the Ortiz brothers look like. They essentially came on the scene right as Ramon got hurt. They picked up a lot of his business and Irad got his agent.

That's what I'll always wonder.

Why could he not win at the rate he was winning at in NY? Are you a close follower of the NYRA circuit? I will go on record and state that the NY riders of the last 10 years are the WORST riders in the history of NY racing. If they all rode at a minor track, NONE of them would be dominant. They lose far too many races with the best horse and they rarely and I mean rarely WIN a race with a horse who should not have won.

I have never and I mean ever seen a jockey, any jockey, WHO WON A RACE with a horse that should have lost. Ramon was the first. He was that great.

Ortiz brothers...don't get me started. I truly believe in my heart they race rode him to death in that race.

They are both completely over rated thieves who couldn't hold Ramon's jock strap. Irad is now known as Iherd amongst Sharpies at NYRA and Jose is a fraction of his brother (and that is not a compliment but a diss).

Ramon dominated at the SPA, the toughest meet in the country. It wasn't because he rode 100% of T Pletcher's 2 Yo dominant winning FTS, it was because, simply, HE WAS THAT DAMN GREAT. He gave a perfect trip 95% of the time. Always in the right place, always prepared for the numbskull moves of his supposed 'peers'.

If Pincay rode to his sixties and it's a big if obviously but IF ramon rode to his sixties, I see him being at least 2nd. First IF Russell Retires soon.

[EMD4ME]

If I come into your bank looking for a loan...do you promise to make the same sort of projection on my financial statement?

Thaskalos, for you I would reduce the DCR from 1.25 to .25!!!

For you, I would take your 1 day's of winnings and project them over 3650 days!

Your wish is my command!

In all seriousness (but I did mean what I just said), I do think Ramon would have dominated NY racing for the next 15 years (I'm counting from Jan 13 till June 2028), getting to 11,000 by 52. That's 6000 wins in 15 years or 400 wins a year. Not kidding. He would be all time leader if Russell Baze retires anytime soon IF he continued to ride till his early 60's.

Don't forget, besides dominating at the SPA, he would've raced at AQU for 6 months out of the year and NYRA still has 5 day weeks, as opposed to other circuits.

[Robert Fischer]

Ramon was great. If he had amazing longevity, sure, he could have broke any record or milestone. He doesn't nee that to prove anything. With Ramon, either you 'get it', and you appreciate his level of riding, or you don't.

[EMD4ME]

No. Russell Baze is still going strong at 57.

Correct if RB runs till his early 60's. If RB does run till his early 60's, Ramon at best would have been 2nd all time, unless RD rode till his late 60's which is unlikely.

[Kash$]

Codero dominated Saratoga for 15 years in a era where the jockeys were much better then now.

[SuperPickle]

It has nothing to do with talent. The issue is few jockeys have the desire or the physical capabilities of ridding 7-9 horses in their late 40's or 50's five days a week. If you look at Stevens or Smith they kind of cherry pick and ride by appointment. Most guys simply choose to do that.

When people crap on Russell Baze for winning in No. Cal they miss the point that at his age its a massive accomplishment to even get on 7-9 a day, day-after-day.

It's not that Ramon isn't great. It's that i find it hard to believe at 55 years-old he'd be riding 8 slow, broken down horses in January on the inner track vs. riding 2-3 allowance horses a day at Gulfstream.

The all-time leading jockey has nothing to do with talent. It has to with desire and durability. Like I said I doubt Ramon would be spending his 50's riding 30 broken down inner track horses a week. Meanwhile Baze is riding $4 clambers on the fair circuit.

Plus part of my thinks Baze will continue riding for another 5 maybe 10 years. As long as the Dorf, Morey and Sherman put him on 4-5 winners a week he'll still be winning 200-250 a year. He's got such a great gig. He rides for the top 5-6 outfits who combined probably win half the races on the circuit. It's a sweet deal that no one else in the country has.

It's tough to proclaim someone could beat Baze when Baze isn't slowing down. His record could really be unbreakable.

[whodoyoulike]

So, you're comparing Russell Baze's record to Ramon's just based on # of wins. RB tried to ride a couple times in SoCal but always returned to NoCal after awhile. Don't misunderstand me. I think he has been probably the best jockey riding in NoCal for a long time. I don't remember who was considered great before he showed up.

[Ruffian1]

Obviously dealing in hypothetical' s and that's just fine. I did want to take a minute and say thanks to EMD4ME for being such a big fan of one of the nicest guys I have ever met. I got to know Ramon well when he was in Md. and knew his agent even better. What happened to him was terrible and cut short a career that was already remarkable.
I had not seen him for a couple of years when I went to Saratoga the summer before his spill. Was there staying with a trainer a few days and was out in the mornings. Ramon worked a few of my friends horses while I was there. I got to catch up with him and Steve , his agent, and in hindsight,was so glad I did.
Do know that Ramon is at peace with what happened. He is a family man and that has really helped. But the other thing that has helped has been the outpouring of support from the fan base. Ramon was, and is still, blown away by all the well wishers and fans that care. It's people like you that helped get him through some tough times. On his behalf, if I may, Thank You !

[EMD4ME]

Obviously dealing in hypothetical' s and that's just fine. I did want to take a minute and say thanks to EMD4ME for being such a big fan of one of the nicest guys I have ever met. I got to know Ramon well when he was in Md. and knew his agent even better. What happened to him was terrible and cut short a career that was already remarkable.
I had not seen him for a couple of years when I went to Saratoga the summer before his spill. Was there staying with a trainer a few days and was out in the mornings. Ramon worked a few of my friends horses while I was there. I got to catch up with him and Steve , his agent, and in hindsight,was so glad I did.
Do know that Ramon is at peace with what happened. He is a family man and that has really helped. But the other thing that has helped has been the outpouring of support from the fan base. Ramon was, and is still, blown away by all the well wishers and fans that care. It's people like you that helped get him through some tough times. On his behalf, if I may, Thank You !

Deep into my appreciation for the god like talent of Ramon Dominguez, I happen to be walking in the paddock of Belmont as Ramon was walking by an hour before first post. I politely stopped him and told him that I am his biggest fan and told him a quick story of hitting a $50,000 pick 6 on April 19, 2010 because of him. He stopped and was very polite to my mother (who ironically, through a 96 year old man putting his car into a store, gave my mother the same exact brain injury in 2015) and asked who the horse was. I told him it was a 9 year old Turf router named Balast. I couldn't remember who the trainer was or the owner but I know he was Balast, a 9 horse in the last race and how I was puzzled as to what to do in the last race so I simply singled Ramon. I caught the first 5 winners and Ramon was hit at the gate of the finale. Ramon was patient, stuck to his talents and at the 1/8 pole, the whip wasnt even needed because he was so damn great.

He was humble, appreciative, offered to give an autograph to my mother and I and kept the conversation going. I can tell what a gentlemen he is just by his mannerisms. It was an honor to meet him that day, unbeknownst to me and him, that his career would end during the next meet.

He is once in a century, not once in a lifetime.

[EMD4ME]

It has nothing to do with talent. The issue is few jockeys have the desire or the physical capabilities of ridding 7-9 horses in their late 40's or 50's five days a week. If you look at Stevens or Smith they kind of cherry pick and ride by appointment. Most guys simply choose to do that.

When people crap on Russell Baze for winning in No. Cal they miss the point that at his age its a massive accomplishment to even get on 7-9 a day, day-after-day.

It's not that Ramon isn't great. It's that i find it hard to believe at 55 years-old he'd be riding 8 slow, broken down horses in January on the inner track vs. riding 2-3 allowance horses a day at Gulfstream.

The all-time leading jockey has nothing to do with talent. It has to with desire and durability. Like I said I doubt Ramon would be spending his 50's riding 30 broken down inner track horses a week. Meanwhile Baze is riding $4 clambers on the fair circuit.

Plus part of my thinks Baze will continue riding for another 5 maybe 10 years. As long as the Dorf, Morey and Sherman put him on 4-5 winners a week he'll still be winning 200-250 a year. He's got such a great gig. He rides for the top 5-6 outfits who combined probably win half the races on the circuit. It's a sweet deal that no one else in the country has.

It's tough to proclaim someone could beat Baze when Baze isn't slowing down. His record could really be unbreakable.

You make a good point. I'll say this in return. The man rode in NY year round because he brought his family here. He never rode at GP in the winter. Only for a mount or two at most.

It's not inconceivable that he would elevate his amount of wins, through hitting his peak and continuing to ride on cheaper horses 7-8 times a day as Ramon wasn't a premadonna jock. He rode the cheap horses better than anyone.

[EMD4ME]

Codero dominated Saratoga for 15 years in a era where the jockeys were much better then now.

Very true. Cordero was in a league of his own.

[EMD4ME]

Ramon was great. If he had amazing longevity, sure, he could have broke any record or milestone. He doesn't nee that to prove anything. With Ramon, either you 'get it', and you appreciate his level of riding, or you don't.


Exactly..... Exactly......Very well said. It is THAT simple.