Same Driver/Trainer

[coachv30]

Let's reserve this thread for after the fact. We can post winners who fit this angle and pay big scores. Be sure to list the driver/trainer. Over time, we may be able to pick up consistencies amongst driver/trainers, horses, post positions, tracks, etc...

Let's keep it at a minimum of $30 or more of a payoff.

Scioto 2: :7: JoJo's Journey $60.40 C. Herschberger / C. Herschberger ML 10-1

[coachv30]

Meadows 12: :8: Jin Dandy $31.60 E. McKneight/E.McKneight ML 6-1

[mrroyboy]

I like it coach

[coachv30]

Hoosier 13: :7: Martz Creek liby $33.00 D. Eash / D.Eash 12-1 ML

Pocono 1: :6: Quiet Cove $47.60 E. Lohmeyer / E. Lohmeyer 8-1 ML

[coachv30]

Meadows 8: :8: Blackjack Spur $49.80 R. Stillings / R. Stillings 8-1 ML

[coachv30]

Scioto 3: :6: My Beach Baby $44.80 K.Kauffman/K.Kauffman 12-1 ML

[badcompany]

Imo, an angle that works better is driver/trainer/owner. The fact that the driver gets everything if he wins makes them almost always try.

Ray Schnittker is one that comes to mind.

[coachv30]

Running Aces 4: :1: Becky B Skipalong $30.20 L.Plano / L.Plano 6-1 ML

[Longshot6977]

July 16 Ocean Downs 2nd race :8: New York Terror $31.80 Sean Bier/Sean Bier 8-1 ML

[coachv30]

Hoosier 8: :1: NorthernflightLady $66.00 R. Gillespie /R. Gillespie 8-1 ML

[Longshot6977]

July 16 Yonkers 4th race Maurice $25.80 for place. Pat Lachance/Pat Lachance 9-1 ML. Just missed the win by 1 length.

[coachv30]

Pocono 9: :1: Blintz $118.00 R. Krivelin / R. Krivelin 20-1 ML

[Tall One]

Vernon 1


:7: Gimme The Cash $25.40, An Mac Donald/An Mac Donald. 5-1 m/l

[Longshot6977]

July 22 Poconos Race 10 :1: Encore Gold paid $39.00 ML 10-1 Charlie Norris/Charlie Norris

[coachv30]

Hoosier 4- :6: Baba Daba Do $71.40 K. Wilfong / B. Wilfong ML-15-1

[Longshot6977]

Hoosier race 7 -- :3: Moon in my Shine $40.40 ML 10-1 Trainer Krista Harmon/Driver Don Harmon

[coachv30]

Maywood 8- :8: Independent Dude $30.80 P. Curtain /P. Curtain ML 8-1

[Longshot6977]

Yonker's 1st :6: Lightning Raider N paid $46.60 for place. Anita Vallee/Shaun Vallee ML 15-1.

Almost won, but came 2nd by a head and was running hard at the wire.

[coachv30]

Plainridge 8- :3: By A Noggin $33.20 M. Eaton / M. Eaton ML 10-1

[coachv30]

Scioto 4 - :2: Ragin's Flight $59.20 H. Beatty / H. Beatty ML 6-1

[coachv30]

Big M

Race 8- :9: Lindy's on Fire 2nd @ 90-1. $59.40 place. M. Melander/ M. Melander

[coachv30]

Pompano Race 4

:3: Certain Potential Sergio Corona / Sergio Corona ????????

$238.00 $38.40 $17.80 :eek:

[coachv30]

Time to Revive this thread.....

5/8

Pompano 2

:6: CAROLINKIA - Sergio Corona / Sergio Corone / Sergio Corona

$71.00 to Win in a 6 horse field

[VigorsTheGrey]

Time to Revive this thread.....

5/8

Pompano 2

:6: CAROLINKIA - Sergio Corona / Sergio Corone / Sergio Corona

$71.00 to Win in a 6 horse field

Are you just Posting the ones that won? What percentage of total runners run with this criteria?

[coachv30]

Just something a few of us followed a while back. I kept running stats on another thread for a while. Turned out profitable in the short term but not over the long term....It just seems that the majority of the time that I see the toteboard blow up, it fits the angle.

[VigorsTheGrey]

Just something a few of us followed a while back. I kept running stats on another thread for a while. Turned out profitable in the short term but not over the long term....It just seems that the majority of the time that I see the toteboard blow up, it fits the angle.

Any speculation on how or why that might be the case...is there method in the madness?

[coachv30]

My guess is that most of the driver/trainers who fit the criteria and bring in the bombs are pretty much nobody's....their horses get disrespected in the wagering pool and they stick it to you. Unless of course you're playing the angle.

An example would be Shaun valee riding his own horse at the big m against that driver colony.

[VigorsTheGrey]

My guess is that most of the driver/trainers who fit the criteria and bring in the bombs are pretty much nobody's....their horses get disrespected in the wagering pool and they stick it to you. Unless of course you're playing the angle.

An example would be Shaun valee riding his own horse at the big m against that driver colony.

Sounds reasonable...as a side, I always kind of wondered about fairness in harness racing....then I read about the "turn system" recently here at Pace and it seemed kind of intriguing for harness...instead of your horse winning today as the favorite, have him throw in a clunker today, and next week we can get 6-1 on him when it is your turn...that way we all win and get good odds too, how about that? Kind of a John Nash approach from the Movie "A Beatiful Mind" Thought harness could be perfect for those kind of shenanigins :)

[Stick]

Depends on how much money you are racing for. Why would you dump a horse that can win at Yonkers for a 30K purse while betting into a 50k pool? The next week you might draw the 8 hole and get nothing again. The dangerous tracks are the ones where the handle is okay but the purses are low. Balmoral used to be this type of track.

[wilderness]

FWIW, the trainer/driver is of a different mindset and skill-set, as compared to an exclusive driver.

The exclusive driver doesn't have to face the owner, caretaker nor horse the next day after he's gutted a horse for maximum gain of his 5%.

The trainer/driver (or his staff) see the horse nearly every day. They have a long range goal for the horse (or owner). That goal is dependent upon the horse maintaining its schedule of training (perhaps to overcome a specific physical issue).
The trainer/driver knows how to get the best driving performance from his horse, whilst not jeopardizing the weakness of the horse, thus driver/trainer may not move at the same time during a race that an exclusive-driver would.

Generally speaking, a trainer/driver is able to achieve a more prolonged performance by his horse because he's more alert to the horses personality traits (and when the horse is more likely to compete and/or gain position on his own improving performance (s).

Horses are not machines, where you change the oil and give them a grease job after you have stressed all the gears (body parts)!
Rather, when you stress their bodies, one part breakdowns and then throws your entire long-range-plans on delay (frquently for weeks or months).


The fallacy that driver/trainer is cheating by not 'gutting the horse' for a single performance that would destroy the combined effort of an entire team is absurd.

T-breds race frequently in races of which they have zero chance of winning, and specifically for training purposes (while the general public is wagering; and determining if the horse is in to race or simply training for a different day).

[coachv30]

Harrington Race 10

:8: Island Jet - C. Poliseno / C. Poliseno

$88.20 to win

[VigorsTheGrey]

T-breds race frequently in races of which they have zero chance of winning, and specifically for training purposes (while the general public is wagering; and determining if the horse is in to race or simply training for a different day).

I guess the above is one of the major distressing things about betting on horses...one is often uncertain regarding the intentions of the trainers for the horse in question...and so I think there is a basic inequity that's built in as a result of exactly this...

It is one of the reasons that this often is an insiders game...it is one thing to attempt to estimate a horse's chances in any given race, but the assumption is that a win is the goal for the horse...trying to gauge a trainers intentions is next to impossible to do unless you are some sort of mind reader..

...and what is a rider supposed to do if he is hired to ride or drive and the owner/ trainer wants the horse to finish a certain way? Go against the wishes and not ride again? Is there any rule that says that a rider must finish or ride to win?

[traynor]

I would look for a confounding variable. The prices on the same trainer/driver indicate other factors that do (or do not) exist. Track those factors for a deeper insight. Specifically, look for a commonality between combinations that win, and differences (in other attributes) between combinations that win and combinations that lose.

Hard to do by hand. Easy to do with a database for anyone willing to put a bit of time into research. Might be worthwhile.

I suspect there is some other factor that--taken in concert with the same trainer/driver--does a fair job of prediction. Viewing same trainer/driver as an attribute (rather than a standalone qualifier) may be (more) productive over the long-term.