Selling body parts for profit

[JustRalph]

http://hotair.com/archives/2015/07/14/video-planned-parenthoods-profit-off-of-fetal-body-parts/

Some things you just can't believe........

[PhantomOnTour]

"How much for one rib?"

[Tom]

You want fries wit dat?

[johnhannibalsmith]

"How much for one rib?"

Great movie!

[Tom]

How about a nice POT roast?:eek:

[JustRalph]

I don't find it funny

http://www.lifenews.com/2015/07/14/shock-video-catches-planned-parenthoods-top-doctor-selling-body-parts-of-aborted-babies/

[Robert Fischer]

Unless an NBA player needs a kneecap (Does Amare Stoudemire still play?) or a cannibal needs a super-size meal, nobody will buy my enlarged mutant body parts.

[Steve 'StatMan']

Come On Rapture! Come On Rapture!

[Clocker]

Planned Parenthood says it isn't body parts, it is "tissue". And they aren't selling the "tissue". The "tissue" is donated by the mother, and they are being reimbursed for additional costs such as transportation.

http://hotair.com/archives/2015/07/14/planned-parenthood-responds-nucatolas-just-talking-about-reimbursements/

[Marshall Bennett]

Mothers of future porn stars form a single line please. :)

[Tom]

Why do they call it planned parenthood when all they do is prevent parenthood?

[spicytomato]

Unless an NBA player needs a kneecap (Does Amare Stoudemire still play?) or a cannibal needs a super-size meal, nobody will buy my enlarged mutant body parts.


Darn, guess they wouldn't buy my enlarged butt either :lol:

[Clocker]

Planned Parenthood recalibrates through their PR reps. The new spin is that it is not selling body parts, it is organ harvesting. And that, according to their PR flack, is a "humanitarian undertaking."

http://hotair.com/archives/2015/07/15/new-planned-parenthood-spin-organ-harvesting-sales-a-humanitarian-undertaking/

[JustRalph]

Planned Parenthood recalibrates through their PR reps. The new spin is that it is not selling body parts, it is organ harvesting. And that, according to their PR flack, is a "humanitarian undertaking."

http://hotair.com/archives/2015/07/15/new-planned-parenthood-spin-organ-harvesting-sales-a-humanitarian-undertaking/

Disgusting. I never really think about the word "evil" but this is evil personified.

[reckless]

Disgusting. I never really think about the word "evil" but this is evil personified.

Well put Ralph and thanks for your understanding.

We'll always have evil in this world as long as there are liberals and progressives in our government, in our culture, lifestyle and media.

These liberals are truly hateful, evil people, starting at the top with the cold-hearted, anti-America, racist villain Barack Obama and those Democrat supporters and apologists that always defend this s-bag.

In the news today, we have this creep with Planned Parenthood, scarfing down a salad without so much of an ounce of empathy in her eyes or her voice. Then, just a few years ago, there was the Kermit Gosnell Abortion Clinic situation. True evil again on display. And no sympathy for the victims nor outrage coming from the liberals and 'progressives'.

And, now, in the not too distance future, a death panel coming your way to a town near you, thanks to the Affordable Care Act and Barack Obama, Zeke Emanuel, John Roberts and every social media loser and dope that hit the like button pertaining to Obama Care.

All these left wing very Ugly Americans laughed at Betsy McCaughey and Sarah Palin and their precient warnings. Some here on PA said similar vulgar things too, as we all know.

So, to those that made fun of these two saints and called them dopes and media whores should rot in hell.

[horses4courses]

We'll always have evil in this world as long as there are liberals and progressives in our government, in our culture, lifestyle and media.

These liberals are truly hateful, evil people

Now, it's funny you should say these things.
Consider these sentiments as completely reciprocated. :)

[LottaKash]

Why do they call it planned parenthood when all they do is prevent parenthood?

"Planned Legal Murder" would be a more appropriate name for them...

[JustRalph]

Now, it's funny you should say these things.
Consider these sentiments as completely reciprocated. :)

You are disgusting. Defending this ? Really?

[horses4courses]

You are disgusting. Defending this ? Really?

Nope.
Didn't read it.
Just wishing reck a happy Wednesday evening.

[newtothegame]

The have been many defenses by mosty and others of videos of planned parenthood. They always come up with some BS to defend.....
Now PP gets busted AGAIN!
I am sure the mainstream media is running this story 24/7 right???
Where are all the democratic congressional members and senators calling for the banning and defunding of PP????
I mean if a flag is killing people (and we have no video evidence of said flag caught in the crime), then surely this must rise to at least that standard......
PP must go!!!

[fast4522]

You are disgusting. Defending this ? Really?

SOB should be the star of Penny Dreadful.

[LottaKash]

http://www.blackgenocide.org/sanger.html

excerpt:
How Planned Parenthood Duped America

At a March 1925 international birth control gathering in New York City, a speaker warned of the menace posed by the "black" and "yellow" peril. The man was not a Nazi or Klansman; he was Dr. S. Adolphus Knopf, a member of Margaret Sanger's American Birth Control League (ABCL), which along with other groups eventually became known as Planned Parenthood.

Sanger's other colleagues included avowed and sophisticated racists. One, Lothrop Stoddard, was a Harvard graduate and the author of The Rising Tide of Color against White Supremacy. Stoddard was something of a Nazi enthusiast who described the eugenic practices of the Third Reich as "scientific" and "humanitarian." And Dr. Harry Laughlin, another Sanger associate and board member for her group, spoke of purifying America's human "breeding stock" and purging America's "bad strains." These "strains" included the "shiftless, ignorant, and worthless class of antisocial whites of the South."

[mostpost]

The have been many defenses by mosty and others of videos of planned parenthood. They always come up with some BS to defend.....
Now PP gets busted AGAIN!
I am sure the mainstream media is running this story 24/7 right???
Where are all the democratic congressional members and senators calling for the banning and defunding of PP????
I mean if a flag is killing people (and we have no video evidence of said flag caught in the crime), then surely this must rise to at least that standard......
PP must go!!!
OK, let's start with the Centers for Medical Progress-the group that published the video. Sounds like some important group dedicated to the advancement of Medicine. Probably a lot of doctors, nurses and other medical professionals involved.

Not quite. CMP was created out of whole cloth by a group called Live Action. Live Action is an anti-abortion group which has used O'Keefian tactics to destroy Planned Parenthood. Every time their accusations have been proven false.

As to the accusations themselves.
CMP claims that Planned Parenthood is selling baby organs for profit. Their so called proof is that Planned Parenthood is receiving $30 to $100 for each shipment of tissue. This according to Dr. Deborah Nucatola of Planned Parenthood.

I can't say that I am an expert on this subject, but I would think that a viable organ on the black market would go for tens of thousands of dollars. The fact that planned parenthood is getting $30 to $100 is an indication that the payment is indeed shipping and handling.

Perhaps when you die-hopefully a long time from now-you will donate some organs to science, medical research or whatever. When these women make the very difficult decision to have an abortion, they sometimes decide to make the same type of donation.

Are these types of tissue donations illegal? I don't think so, since the CMP actors went to the trouble of establishing a fake web page for their fake biomedical firm, just so they could talk to Planned Parenthood.

They presented themselves as legitimate researchers, not as black market scoundrels.

[Clocker]

OK, let's start with the Centers for Medical Progress-the group that published the video. Sounds like some important group dedicated to the advancement of Medicine. Probably a lot of doctors, nurses and other medical professionals involved.

Not quite. CMP was created out of whole cloth by a group called Live Action. Live Action is an anti-abortion group which has used O'Keefian tactics to destroy Planned Parenthood. Every time their accusations have been proven false.


OK, let's start by attacking the messenger. That way we can deflect from the facts that woman in the video is a Planned Parenthood representative and she actually said what it appears she said.

[mostpost]

Why do they call it planned parenthood when all they do is prevent parenthood?
Once again your ignorance is showing. 35% of Planned Parenthood's services are dedicated to the prevention and treatment of sexually transmitted diseases.
16% are related to cancer screening and prevention, such as mammograms or Pap tests. 10% involve pregnancy and prenatal care and midlife counseling and treatment. 35% goes to contraceptive counseling and care.
3% IS USED FOR ABORTIONS.

[mostpost]

OK, let's start by attacking the messenger. That way we can deflect from the facts that woman in the video is a Planned Parenthood representative and she actually said what it appears she said.
When the messenger is lying, I will always attack the messenger. This messenger is lying.

I am also not bothered by the way in which Dr. Nucatola described the techniques used. She was speaking (or thought she was speaking-see reference to lying above) to people who would be interested in receiving undamaged tissue. Do you ever watch shows like Criminal Minds or CSI. The Law Enforcement characters discuss the most disgusting, disturbing crime scenes in the most matter of fact, clinical terms. They're professionals; they do their jobs.

ETA: Once again you present the "Attack The Messenger" Straw man. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Clocker]

When the messenger is lying, I will always attack the messenger. This messenger is lying.


So they faked the video?

[reckless]

When the messenger is lying, I will always attack the messenger. This messenger is lying.

I am also not bothered by the way in which Dr. Nucatola described the techniques used. She was speaking (or thought she was speaking-see reference to lying above) to people who would be interested in receiving undamaged tissue. Do you ever watch shows like Criminal Minds or CSI. The Law Enforcement characters discuss the most disgusting, disturbing crime scenes in the most matter of fact, clinical terms. They're professionals; they do their jobs.

ETA: Once again you present the "Attack The Messenger" Straw man. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Those that exposed the Kermit Gosnell and his Abortion Butcher Shop -- were they lying too?

Planned Parenthood had their evil, infanticide murderous fingers (flushed with money taken from American taxpayers) in that Gosnell cess pool too, mostpost, in case you didn't know.

How could you and the others from the left wing hate machine defend Gosnell, Planned Parenthood and the like, yet attack those that expose these villains is beyond me.

Nahh, it isn't beyond me, we know who the real creeps are in this country.

[mostpost]

Well put Ralph and thanks for your understanding.

We'll always have evil in this world as long as there are liberals and progressives in our government, in our culture, lifestyle and media.

These liberals are truly hateful, evil people, starting at the top with the cold-hearted, anti-America, racist villain Barack Obama and those Democrat supporters and apologists that always defend this s-bag.
I feel so bad that you think I am a hateful, evil person. Funny thing is, not one person who knows me feels that way-some of them are actually quite conservative, but none of them are nutcases. Okay, to be honest, I don't care in the least what you think.

In the news today, we have this creep with Planned Parenthood, scarfing down a salad without so much of an ounce of empathy in her eyes or her voice. Then, just a few years ago, there was the Kermit Gosnell Abortion Clinic situation. True evil again on display. And no sympathy for the victims nor outrage coming from the liberals and 'progressives'.
Kermit Gosnell is a criminal and a scumbag. He had no connection with Planned Parenthood.

And, now, in the not too distance future, a death panel coming your way to a town near you, thanks to the Affordable Care Act and Barack Obama, Zeke Emanuel, John Roberts and every social media loser and dope that hit the like button pertaining to Obama Care.
There are no death panels. Repeat after me. There are no death panels. Saying there are makes you look like a fool. Which, come to think of it is appropriate.

All these left wing very Ugly Americans laughed at Betsy McCaughey and Sarah Palin and their precient warnings. Some here on PA said similar vulgar things too, as we all know.
I believe prescient-which you misspelled-means knowing something that comes to pass ahead of time. So their warnings were neither prescient nor precient.

So, to those that made fun of these two saints and called them dopes and media whores should rot in hell.
In my religion, condemning someone to hell is a rather serious sin. One that could condemn someone to Hell. Just sayin'.

[TJDave]

In my religion, condemning someone to hell is a rather serious sin. One that could condemn someone to Hell. Just sayin'.

What religion is that?

[reckless]

In my religion, condemning someone to hell is a rather serious sin. One that could condemn someone to Hell. Just sayin'.

You and many of your left wing dweebs have all this in common, and you can't escape it nor nuance your way out of it:

At various and numerous times liberals such as yourself have defended or danced about the following:

Planned Parenthood; that fat, cold hearted b--ch in the video in question; Kermit Gosnell; rapist Bill Clinton; terrorists groups like ISIS because of the Crusades; anti-Semite and America hating Barack Obama; Hillary and her blaming a You Tube video for the Benghazi massacre of her doing -- and numerous other vile acts that your liberal ideology and leaders excel at.

And I didn't even mention that it was you, mostpost, who called the innocent wife of a PA colleague fat. Shameful and vulgar, of course, but knowing you, not surprising.

I don't take back my go to Hell comment. Nor do I worry about my final resting place.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by mostpost
In my religion, condemning someone to hell is a rather serious sin.

Not when they deserve it.
I am only concerned that giving the current dem party, Hell might need to be expanded.

[Clocker]

I am also not bothered by the way in which Dr. Nucatola described the techniques used. She was speaking (or thought she was speaking-see reference to lying above) to people who would be interested in receiving undamaged tissue.

The techniques she describes are illegal.

The 1993 National Institutes of Health Revitalization Act states that human fetal tissue may be obtained from an abortion only if “no alteration of the timing, method or procedures used to terminate the pregnancy was made solely for the purposes of obtaining the tissue” and the “abortion was performed in accordance with applicable state law.” At least some states have similar rules, too.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/421307/planned-parenthood-altering-abortion-procedure-illegal

[Tom]

I saw a movie about this once.
It was called Frankenstein.

mostie reminds me of Igor.

Coming soon, to a Dem Rally new you.....Soylent Green.

[OntheRail]

What religion is that?

Humpty-ism

[classhandicapper]

There is a role for some organization to give women an education on sexual health, STDs, birth control, and their options when there is an unwanted pregnancy, but Planned Parenthood is not it.

The primary goal should be to reduce promiscuous sex, having children out of wedlock, and abortions. But as a demon seed of Satan, PP is incapable of making objective moral judgments on any of life's possible choices. So rather than moving society in a positive direction, it takes us further down the path of ruin.

[TJDave]

But as a demon seed of Satan, PP is incapable of making objective moral judgments on any of life's possible choices. So rather than moving society in a positive direction, it takes us further down the path of ruin.

You claim to be an agnostic yet believe in Satan.

Interesting.

[classhandicapper]

You claim to be an agnostic yet believe in Satan.

Interesting.

I'm not sure there's a literal Satan any more than I am there is a literal God, but I do know that some things are intrinsically evil and some things are intrinsically good. My agnosticism doesn't prevent me from allocating them appropriately to make the point.

[NJ Stinks]

There is a role for some organization to give women an education on sexual health, STDs, birth control, and their options when there is an unwanted pregnancy, but Planned Parenthood is not it.

The primary goal should be to reduce promiscuous sex, having children out of wedlock, and abortions. But as a demon seed of Satan, PP is incapable of making objective moral judgments on any of life's possible choices. So rather than moving society in a positive direction, it takes us further down the path of ruin.

Either you have a valid point to make or you don't.

Compared with 2010, the total number and rate of reported abortions for 2011 decreased 5%, and the abortion ratio decreased 4%. Additionally, from 2002 to 2011 the number, rate, and ratio of reported abortions decreased 13%, 14%, and 12%, respectively. The large decreases in the total number, rate, and ratio of reported abortions from 2010 to 2011, in combination with decreases that occurred during 2008–2010, resulted in historic lows for all three measures of abortion.

link: http://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/data_stats/

[PaceAdvantage]

You and many of your left wing dweebs have all this in common, and you can't escape it nor nuance your way out of it:

At various and numerous times liberals such as yourself have defended or danced about the following:

Planned Parenthood; that fat, cold hearted b--ch in the video in question; Kermit Gosnell; rapist Bill Clinton; terrorists groups like ISIS because of the Crusades; anti-Semite and America hating Barack Obama; Hillary and her blaming a You Tube video for the Benghazi massacre of her doing -- and numerous other vile acts that your liberal ideology and leaders excel at.

And I didn't even mention that it was you, mostpost, who called the innocent wife of a PA colleague fat. Shameful and vulgar, of course, but knowing you, not surprising.

I don't take back my go to Hell comment. Nor do I worry about my final resting place.You need to SERIOUSLY tone your shtick down...

[classhandicapper]

Either you have a valid point to make or you don't.

Compared with 2010, the total number and rate of reported abortions for 2011 decreased 5%, and the abortion ratio decreased 4%. Additionally, from 2002 to 2011 the number, rate, and ratio of reported abortions decreased 13%, 14%, and 12%, respectively. The large decreases in the total number, rate, and ratio of reported abortions from 2010 to 2011, in combination with decreases that occurred during 2008–2010, resulted in historic lows for all three measures of abortion.

link: http://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/data_stats/


What part do you think Planned Parenthood played in any of that?

If Planned Parenthood had its way abortions would generally be considered a form of birth control no different than a condom or pill, gestation period would not be much or any factor, parents of minors would not be notified, and abortion pills would be sold over the counter to minors.

As an institution it is unwilling and incapable of making any kind of objective moral judgment (much like most liberals).

You can be pro choice for a lot of different reasons and still think a lot of what PP stands for either bad idea at best or immoral at worst (let alone if you are religious and think it's all murder).

I'd rather give credit for any real reduction to the people and institutions that are working to limit abortions to very early term pregnancies by making the more extreme and controversial types more difficult to get, by getting parents more involved before decisions are made, and by offering reasonable adoption alternatives etc...

I also question the stats. The distribution of abortions done by doctors vs. those done with medications is probably shifting and the latter is probably harder to count accurately.

[dartman51]

In my religion, condemning someone to hell is a rather serious sin. One that could condemn someone to Hell. Just sayin'.

What religion is that? Just curious as to what religion it is ok to attack and name call, your fellow man? And don't give me the crap about "they did it first." Besides sounding like a 3rd grader, if you're really religious, you are supposed to turn the other cheek. :faint:

[delayjf]

I am also not bothered by the way in which Dr. Nucatola described the techniques used

I for one found her descriptions and he casual manner in which she described the procedures disturbing. I tried to relay what I had read to my Wife who is pro-abortion and she would shut me off, not wanting to hear anymore.

[reckless]

You need to SERIOUSLY tone your shtick down...

This is the second time in recent days that you said things to me to this affect, Mike.

All I want to know is do you ever read any of the comments that were originally directed at me? The posts that I have recently made which has gotten your dander up were my responses to the snarky posts directed at me originally.

The response to mostpost wasn't exactly in the bad taste -- yet his comments to me just prior, were. There was nothing in my response post that should have gotten your ire up. Also, nothing that I said was false. And I mean false, not opinion false.

If you don't want me to post on OT-General then say so, Mike. But I do know I contribute to PA in numerous threads and rooms aside from Off Topic.

[mostpost]

There is a role for some organization to give women an education on sexual health, STDs, birth control, and their options when there is an unwanted pregnancy, but Planned Parenthood is not it.

The primary goal should be to reduce promiscuous sex, having children out of wedlock, and abortions. But as a demon seed of Satan, PP is incapable of making objective moral judgments on any of life's possible choices. So rather than moving society in a positive direction, it takes us further down the path of ruin.
"demon seed of Satan?" Seriously. Statements like that make me doubt that you are a mature adult. Unlike conservatives, who make moral judgments for everyone-except themselves, Planned Parenthood does not make judgments.
It provides women with options after those women have made decisions based on their lives.

[newtothegame]

"demon seed of Satan?" Seriously. Statements like that make me doubt that you are a mature adult. Unlike conservatives, who make moral judgments for everyone-except themselves, Planned Parenthood does not make judgments.
It provides women with options after those women have made decisions based on their lives.


You seriously did not just say that??? :lol:

[mostpost]

What part do you think Planned Parenthood played in any of that?

If Planned Parenthood had its way abortions would generally be considered a form of birth control no different than a condom or pill, gestation period would not be much or any factor, parents of minors would not be notified, and abortion pills would be sold over the counter to minors.
There is NO objective evidence that PP pushes abortions over birth control. The fact that 35% of their services are spent on birth control as opposed to 3% on abortions, proves the opposite. There is also no evidence that PP performs any but legal abortions. Nor that they are advocating that there should be a change when in the pregnancy an abortion can be performed.
Absolutely no one would suggest that abortion pills should be sold over the counter to anyone. That's just you employing scare tactics.


As an institution it is unwilling and incapable of making any kind of objective moral judgment (much like most liberals).
There you go again with the moral judgments. I think it is immoral to bring a child into the world who is going to die in a few days. Or live in terrible poverty and you conservatives certainly won't be doing anything to help him.

You can be pro choice for a lot of different reasons and still think a lot of what PP stands for either bad idea at best or immoral at worst (let alone if you are religious and think it's all murder).
That depends on your definition of a lot. Out of every one hundred women who come to Planned Parenthood, thirty five come there for birth control. Maybe you don't believe in contraception, but every baby who is not conceived, is one less baby who might be aborted. Another thirty five women come regarding STDs either treatment or prevention. Personally, I do not think that is a bad idea.

Then there are the sixteen women who come to Planned Parenthood for mammograms and other cancer screenings. It would be a great idea to shut down Planned Parenthood so those women would not find out they have cancer and would die. :rolleyes: Finally. we have the ten women who come to PP so that they can have trouble free pregnancies and healthy babies.

Arrayed against those ninety six women receiving positive services from Planned Parenthood, you have three woman having legal, constitutional abortions. Oh, and one having miscelaneous.
I'd rather give credit for any real reduction to the people and institutions that are working to limit abortions to very early term pregnancies by making the more extreme and controversial types more difficult to get, by getting parents more involved before decisions are made, and by offering reasonable adoption alternatives etc...

I also question the stats. The distribution of abortions done by doctors vs. those done with medications is probably shifting and the latter is probably harder to count accurately.
The stats are real. Just because you don't like them does not make them false.

Your theory about anti abortion activists influencing the numbers is also wrong. Those "extreme and Controversial types" you talk about are most likely illegal. The abortions numbers NJ Stinks cited are for legal abortions. Those numbers are down.

Here is what will reduce abortions.
1. Sex education including the use of contraceptives and the benefits of abstinence for younger people. Obviously such education should be age appropriate.

2. The availability of the various birth control method and the inclusion of those methods on all insurance plans.

3. Financial justice for all so babies who are born can be cared for adequately by their parents

[mostpost]

You seriously did not just say that??? :lol:
Yeah, I did. See any statement made by Boxcar.

[Clocker]

Financial justice

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-laughing025.gif

That just about blew out the circuits in my BS detector.

Is that the latest euphemism for redistribution of wealth from the Ministry of Truth at the DNC?

[Tom]

Planned Parenthood does not make judgments

Planned Parenthood is the natural extension of Dr. Joseph Mengele.

[PhantomOnTour]

"How much for one rib?"
Ralph - if you're reading this, I apologize for this comment.
I didn't even read the story...I just jumped at the chance to quote I'm Gonna Get You Sucka in an attempt to be funny.

I hope this post didn't contribute to your departure.
No harm or mockery was intended

[Tom]

Ralph - if you're reading this, I apologize for this comment.
I didn't even read the story...I just jumped at the chance to quote I'm Gonna Get You Sucka in an attempt to be funny.

I hope this post didn't contribute to your departure.
No harm or mockery was intended

Dittos - I just followed your comment without reading it.
I sent him an email to apologize. You left the door wide open for a POT Roast joke. :bang:

He's cool.

[newtothegame]

Yeah, I did. See any statement made by Boxcar.

You are really on a roll!!! Now all "conservatives" are like Boxcar??? Lmao
This gets better with each reply!!!

[classhandicapper]

"demon seed of Satan?" Seriously. Statements like that make me doubt that you are a mature adult. Unlike conservatives, who make moral judgments for everyone-except themselves, Planned Parenthood does not make judgments.
It provides women with options after those women have made decisions based on their lives.

You seem to be missing the point.

I am in FAVOR of making objective moral judgements, including about my own behavior. The idea is to create superior standards for behavior so you have a better chance of getting superior result, but without making other choices illegal. I am in favor of encouraging behavior and ideas that I choose to ignore.

Defining those standards is what gets everyone into trouble. The left hates religion and God. So that makes it tough. But you can also define them by the results various options produce for society.

By PP being either agnostic or actually encouraging things like late term abortion, giving abortion pills to minors, not notifying parents of minors etc.. it is encouraging behavior that even an atheist should be able to discern as being a bad idea.

The idea is to avoid later abortions because you get into even more difficult questions about life.

The idea is to discourage unwanted pregnancies so abortions are not even an issue.

The idea is to notify parents so they can also help their children make correct health and life decisions.

The idea is to encourage adoption services so there are superior alternatives to abortions.

[LottaKash]

You seem to be missing the point.

.

What do you expect from a Harlem Globetrotter ?....They never lose... :D

[PaceAdvantage]

I in no way need to justify my actions to you. You should take my comments as they were meant. For you only. How I deal with others is my business.

Take it or leave it. The choice is up to you. This isn't a debate.

This is the second time in recent days that you said things to me to this affect, Mike.

All I want to know is do you ever read any of the comments that were originally directed at me? The posts that I have recently made which has gotten your dander up were my responses to the snarky posts directed at me originally.

The response to mostpost wasn't exactly in the bad taste -- yet his comments to me just prior, were. There was nothing in my response post that should have gotten your ire up. Also, nothing that I said was false. And I mean false, not opinion false.

If you don't want me to post on OT-General then say so, Mike. But I do know I contribute to PA in numerous threads and rooms aside from Off Topic.

[PaceAdvantage]

Planned Parenthood is the natural extension of Dr. Joseph Mengele.Believe it or not, Tom's not too far off...

[TJDave]

Believe it or not, Tom's not too far off...

That is absurd. Mengele performed torturous experimentation on unwilling captives. In this country, most abortion procedures are legal... and all voluntary.

[mostpost]

Believe it or not, Tom's not too far off...
That is a foolish statement. Planned Parenthood provides organs to legitimate bio medical companies which those companies use to conduct studies that could and do lead to saving lives in the future. These organs are provided only with the consent of the mother. Neither Planned Parenthood nor the bio medical companies perform experimentation on living human beings. Neither subjects persons to deliberate pain or injury.

Joseph Mengele did all of those things. He cut off limbs to see how the subject would react. He would inject one twin with Typhus and leave the other twin healthy. Then, when the first twin died, he would kill the second so he could perform a comparative autopsy. He tried to change the color of a person's eyes by pouring various caustic chemicals in them. He did all this without the use of anesthetics.

None of his subjects had the right to consent or decline. And his experiments were not conducted for some noble purpose such as curing cancer or providing treatment for Parkinsons or Alzheimers. Their purpose was to prove the Master Race theories of the Nazis and to increase birth rates among the good Aryan peoples.

[Tom]

Believe it or not, Tom's not too far off...

Thanks......I think?! ;)

[mostpost]

You are really on a roll!!! Now all "conservatives" are like Boxcar??? Lmao
This gets better with each reply!!!
Sorry, please point out to me where my statement included the word "ALL"
Many, yes. There a lot of posts here about lazy immigrants and promiscuous women on welfare.

[Tom]

That is absurd. Mengele performed torturous experimentation on unwilling captives. In this country, most abortion procedures are legal... and all voluntary.

Not by the babies.
And do you know HOW a baby is aborted?
Very Mengelese things.

[TJDave]

Not by the babies.
And do you know HOW a baby is aborted?
Very Mengelese things.

Babies are not aborted.

[thaskalos]

Believe it or not, Tom's not too far off...
If this is true...then how terrible must it be that we citizens are just sitting idly by as this "monstrosity" is going on? Why don't we all take to the streets...and finally put an end to this Mengele-esque outrage? We too must share the blame then, just as those German citizens must, who turned a blind eye to the atrocities that were taking place around them.

This is an "extension of Mengele"...and we are just sitting here, typing away on our keyboards?

[PaceAdvantage]

That is absurd. Mengele performed torturous experimentation on unwilling captives. In this country, most abortion procedures are legal... and all voluntary.Are you sure you want to go down this road?

Eugenics and Birth Control
Margaret Sanger's birth control movement and quest for the Pill intersected the rise of the eugenics movement in America. At a time when birth control was still not publicly accepted in American society, some eugenicists believed birth control was a useful tool for curbing procreation among the "weak." In the 1920s and 30s, Sanger calculated that the success of the eugenics idea gave her own movement legitimacy, and tried to ally her cause with the movement. Eugenics was a dominant theme at her birth control conferences, and Sanger spoke publicly of the need to put an end to breeding by the unfit. In 1920 Sanger publicly stated that "birth control is nothing more or less than the facilitation of the process of weeding out the unfit [and] of preventing the birth of defectives." http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/pill/peopleevents/e_eugenics.html+

http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/article/Eugenics-and-the-Nazis-the-California-2549771.php

=

Tom's not too far off

It certainly does NOT equal absurd, as you put it TJDave.

[TJDave]

Planned Parenthood's services are voluntary... Mengele's were not.

End of story. End of road.

[Clocker]

Planned Parenthood provides organs to legitimate bio medical companies which those companies use to conduct studies that could and do lead to saving lives in the future.

It doesn't provide them, it sells them. Under law, they are allowed to only be compensated for their actual costs of preparation and transportation. They charge more than that, so they are breaking the law.

A new video just released shows a PP representative dickering over the price of the body parts. You don't dicker over price if you are only recovering your costs. You know what those are, and that is what you charge.

They also use extraordinary methods to "harvest" the "tissue" to meet the needs of the buyer. That is also illegal.

In the new video, the PP representation offers to use a “less crunchy technique” to get more intact body parts.

http://hotair.com/archives/2015/07/21/second-planned-parenthood-baby-body-part-selling-video-may-be-worse-than-the-first/

[PaceAdvantage]

Planned Parenthood's services are voluntary... Mengele's were not.

End of story. End of road.Yes, I guess it's as simple as that. The principles upon which Planned Parenthood were founded (along with their founder) bear no scrutiny and are above reproach. Nothing should be called into question.

It's all just pure goodness.

I never said the two were equal. I said Tom wasn't too far off.

I stand by my assessment. There are connections that MOST people aren't even aware exist. MOST people don't even know the movement the Nazi's based their horror on was CULTIVATED in CALIFORNIA.

You read this and tell me there is no connections between PP, it's founder, and Nazi Germany:

But the concept of a white, blond-haired, blue-eyed master Nordic race didn't originate with Hitler. The idea was created in the United States, and cultivated in California, decades before Hitler came to power. California eugenicists played an important, although little-known, role in the American eugenics movement's campaign for ethnic cleansing.

Eugenics was the pseudoscience aimed at "improving" the human race. In its extreme, racist form, this meant wiping away all human beings deemed "unfit," preserving only those who conformed to a Nordic stereotype. Elements of the philosophy were enshrined as national policy by forced sterilization and segregation laws, as well as marriage restrictions, enacted in 27 states. In 1909, California became the third state to adopt such laws. Ultimately, eugenics practitioners coercively sterilized some 60,000 Americans, barred the marriage of thousands, forcibly segregated thousands in "colonies," and persecuted untold numbers in ways we are just learning. Before World War II, nearly half of coercive sterilizations were done in California, and even after the war, the state accounted for a third of all such surgeries.
.
.
.
During the Reich's early years, eugenicists across America welcomed Hitler's plans as the logical fulfillment of their own decades of research and effort. California eugenicists republished Nazi propaganda for American consumption. They also arranged for Nazi scientific exhibits, such as an August 1934 display at the L.A. County Museum, for the annual meeting of the American Public Health Association. http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/article/Eugenics-and-the-Nazis-the-California-2549771.php

[TJDave]

This is quite a contrast to the idea of Sanger as a champion of women's rights, promoter of birth control, and medical pioneer. In fact, the Christian lies about Sanger are so pervaisive that many people who are not even involved with the Evangelical Christian Fundamentalist movement believe them. This is because of a very-well financed campaign by Evangelical Fundamentalist groups to spread these lies about Sanger, through the promotion of books, websites, and other media. All of these lies stem from a series of books written by anti-abortion activist George Grant. Grant wrote several books about Sanger and Planned parenthood that are full of invented facts, misquotes from books, articles, and letters by Sanger, and falseley-attributed quotes. The books are literally a colleection of clever lies that have numerous footnotes, to make them appear to be legitimate.

http://fundamentalistdeceit.blogspot.com/2008/01/demonizing-of-margaret-sanger.html

[PaceAdvantage]

This is quite a contrast to the idea of Sanger as a champion of women's rights, promoter of birth control, and medical pioneer. In fact, the Christian lies about Sanger are so pervaisive that many people who are not even involved with the Evangelical Christian Fundamentalist movement believe them. This is because of a very-well financed campaign by Evangelical Fundamentalist groups to spread these lies about Sanger, through the promotion of books, websites, and other media. All of these lies stem from a series of books written by anti-abortion activist George Grant. Grant wrote several books about Sanger and Planned parenthood that are full of invented facts, misquotes from books, articles, and letters by Sanger, and falseley-attributed quotes. The books are literally a colleection of clever lies that have numerous footnotes, to make them appear to be legitimate.

http://fundamentalistdeceit.blogspot.com/2008/01/demonizing-of-margaret-sanger.htmlWhat I posted came from an article in sfgate and the website of pbs.

Hardly bastions of the Evangelical Christian movement. Is this your rebuttal?

I'm more than underwhelmed.

[TJDave]

I'm more than underwhelmed.

Believe what you choose, as will I.

[mostpost]

You seem to be missing the point.

I am in FAVOR of making objective moral judgements, including about my own behavior. The idea is to create superior standards for behavior so you have a better chance of getting superior result, but without making other choices illegal. I am in favor of encouraging behavior and ideas that I choose to ignore.
I can't comment on that because I have no idea what all that mumbo jumbo means.

Defining those standards is what gets everyone into trouble. The left hates religion and God. So that makes it tough. But you can also define them by the results various options produce for society.
Mike (PA) is discouraging inflammatory rhetoric. But, I look at the second sentence in your paragraph above and I have to think; that is a really idiotic statement.

Now maybe my idea of religion and God differs from yours, but I am a regular churchgoer, active in the music ministry at my church-that means I sing in the choir. I know many liberals who attend church, or the synagogue regularly. I also know some conservatives who never go to church. So spare me your blanking self righteousness.

By PP being either agnostic or actually encouraging things like late term abortion, giving abortion pills to minors, not notifying parents of minors etc.. it is encouraging behavior that even an atheist should be able to discern as being a bad idea.
What do you mean by "Encouraging late term abortions?" Does PP put ads in magazines or on TV touting the "benefits" of late term abortion. Or do they present all the options to women who seek them out?

The matter of notifying parents of minors is a difficult one, but I would balance the rights of the parents with the rights of the minor. The child knows how the parents will react. If the parents have been supportive throughout the child's life, she will inform them before even coming to Planned Parenthood. If they have been judgmental and severe, Planned Parenthood may be the only option left to the young girl.

The idea is to avoid later abortions because you get into even more difficult questions about life.
Late term abortion should never be because the mother suddenly decides she is not capable of caring for the baby. That decision should be made as soon as possible.

But there are circumstances which do not show themselves until later in the pregnancy wherein the baby will be born only to die quickly. Or the baby will die in a few days, but never be a thinking human being.

This morning they were talking on the radio about a condition called Extreme Hydroencephalacy. That may not be the exact term and I know I did not spell it correctly. It is a condition in which the brain does not develop at all.

The baby will die either at birth or shortly thereafter. Why would you want to make the mother go through the physical and emotional pain of giving birth to such a baby.

There are also circumstances in which giving birth can endanger the life and health of the mother. Sometimes giving birth to a damaged fetus can cause injuries which prevent the woman from having children afterwards. If we know the fetus is non viable, why should we not do everything we can to allow that woman to have more, healthy children.

The idea is to discourage unwanted pregnancies so abortions are not even an issue.
No, the idea is to prevent unwanted pregnancies, not by some pie in the sky, unrealistic reliance on abstinence, but by access to methods of contraception and education of Safe Sex. Which is not to say that abstinence should not be strongly encouraged. It should not be relied on to the exclusion of more practical practices.
The idea is to notify parents so they can also help their children make correct health and life decisions.
That's fine if the parents are actually concerned about their daughter's welfare and not some dogma. There are plenty of stories out there about children who suffered and died because of some religious belief.



The idea is to encourage adoption services so there are superior alternatives to abortions.
If this was such an obvious solution, why was it not done already.

[Clocker]

A number of prominent doctors, including Ben Johnson, say that fetal tissue is not needed for research.

“There’s nothing that can’t be done without fetal tissue,” Carson said on Fox News Channel’s The Kelly File. “It’s been over-promised what the benefits of fetal research would be. And very much under-delivered.”

Dr. Michelle Cretella, president of the American College of Pediatricians (ACPEDS), actually goes one step further.

“Let’s be clear: selling organs of aborted babies for fetal tissue research is unnecessary and prolongs human suffering,” she tells Breitbart News. “Fetal tissue research, like embryonic stem cell research, has failed to produce a single successful treatment for human disease, and both have been associated with significant side-effects including overgrowth of cells and the need for immunosuppressive chemotherapy.”



And there are questions about the ethics of what PP is doing.

Arthur Caplan, director of medical ethics at New York University Langone Medical Center, told the Times he believes Planned Parenthood faces serious challenges in the realm of ethics regarding senior medical director Nucatola’s graphic description of the organization’s practices. “You cannot, must not, alter how or when you do an abortion simply to obtain tissues you want,” Caplan said. “Basically, the only concern is the health and safety of the mother.”

Additionally, he observed the appearance of potential conflicts of interest for the organization is considerable when it accepts fees for fetal tissue obtained from abortions performed in their facilities.



http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/07/21/doctors-refute-planned-parenthoods-defense-it-uses-aborted-fetal-tissue-for-scientific-progress/

[newtothegame]

Sorry, please point out to me where my statement included the word "ALL"
Many, yes. There a lot of posts here about lazy immigrants and promiscuous women on welfare.
Your post #45 "Unlike conservatives, who make moral judgments for everyone-except themselves, Planned Parenthood does not make judgments".

Notice you didn't say all nor did you use "some" so its read as all inclusive....

Now, you try and say "many"........

Lmao

and the hits just keep coming from you......passing judgments on others as you say "conservatives" do..... lmao

[classhandicapper]

If this was such an obvious solution, why was it not done already.

This is the fundamental issue.

While I would fight for the freedom of people (including myself) to do things that are not in the best interests of the people doing them or in the best interests of our society as a whole, I am willing to recognize that some of life's potential choices should be considered superior because they produce superior results. And since some produce superior results, they should be encouraged and the poor ones discouraged.

A lot of things that are obvious to many people are not done because the left rejects much of the morality (especially sexual) that has its traditions in religion. The fact that stats can measure these outcomes in non religious terms is disregarded or attacked.

I'd describe it this way.

In its effort to protect liberties, the left veers off the deep end and winds up actually encouraging the immoral and poor life choices that take our society down a shithole. I don't care what people do. I've done some of the same things. Just don't glorify it, normalize it, or hold it up as morally equal or superior to choices that produce superior results.

That's why I call Hollywood a den of demons.

That's why I call Planned Parenthood the demon seed coming from that culture. You should actually read their documentation. They are morally agnostic on everything that is legal and fighting to expand down the wrong path.

[Grits]

This is quite a contrast to the idea of Sanger as a champion of women's rights, promoter of birth control, and medical pioneer. In fact, the Christian lies about Sanger are so pervaisive that many people who are not even involved with the Evangelical Christian Fundamentalist movement believe them. This is because of a very-well financed campaign by Evangelical Fundamentalist groups to spread these lies about Sanger, through the promotion of books, websites, and other media. All of these lies stem from a series of books written by anti-abortion activist George Grant. Grant wrote several books about Sanger and Planned parenthood that are full of invented facts, misquotes from books, articles, and letters by Sanger, and falseley-attributed quotes. The books are literally a colleection of clever lies that have numerous footnotes, to make them appear to be legitimate.

http://fundamentalistdeceit.blogspot.com/2008/01/demonizing-of-margaret-sanger.html

This is a poor choice of link, considering you usually do better. Even Wiki is more complete than this one sided screed you've presented, TJD. ....PA is correct, and you're mistaken. Margaret Sanger was a high profile proponent of killing and disposing of the unfit. It was pretty much proven that she was as racist as they come. Not to mention, nuts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_in_the_United_States

One of the most prominent feminists to champion the eugenic agenda was Margaret Sanger (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Sanger), the leader of the American birth control (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birth_control) movement. Margaret Sanger (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Sanger) saw birth control as a means to prevent unwanted children from being born into a disadvantaged life, and incorporated the language of eugenics to advance the movement.[21] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_in_the_United_States#cite_note-nyu-21)[22] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_in_the_United_States#cite_note-22) Sanger also sought to discourage the reproduction of persons who, it was believed, would pass on mental disease or serious physical defect. She advocated sterilization in cases where the subject was unable to use birth control (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birth_control).[21] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_in_the_United_States#cite_note-nyu-21) Unlike other eugenicists, she rejected euthanasia.[23] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_in_the_United_States#cite_note-23) For Sanger, it was individual women and not the state who should determine whether or not to have a child.[24] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_in_the_United_States#cite_note-24)[25] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_in_the_United_States#cite_note-25)

The first book I ever read about eugenics, in this country, I found, of all places, in the Keeneland Library in 2001. It had been a gift given with a collection of many others by the former owner.

As noted, it was long practiced, here, before in Europe. Restitution has been paid to individuals in some states. North Carolina was exceeded only by California, I believe, though I could be wrong, in their number of sterilizations.. which sadly took place until 1974. That's pretty bad..given the size and population of the two states.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887323971204578629943220881914

[TJDave]

A number of prominent doctors, including Ben Johnson

Who is Ben Johnson?

[Clocker]

Who is Ben Johnson?

Sorry, I meant Ben Carson. Don't know where that came from.

[thaskalos]

While I would fight for the freedom of people (including myself) to do things that are not in the best interests of the people doing them or in the best interests of our society as a whole, I am willing to recognize that some of life's potential choices should be considered superior because they produce superior results. And since some produce superior results, they should be encouraged and the poor ones discouraged.

A lot of things that are obvious to many people are not done because the left rejects much of the morality (especially sexual) that has its traditions in religion. The fact that stats can measure these outcomes in non religious terms is disregarded or attacked.

I'd describe it this way.

In its effort to protect liberties, the left veers off the deep end and winds up actually encouraging the immoral and poor life choices that take our society down a shithole. I don't care what people do. I've done some of the same things. Just don't glorify it, normalize it, or hold it up as morally equal or superior to choices that produce superior results.


A.) What are some of these "many things" of a "moral sexual nature"...which, although considered "obviously beneficial" by the many, are nevertheless not done because the left rejects them?

B.) So...since you've done some of these "same things"...it isn't the DOING that you object to...as long as this "doing" remains a secret...right? It's the wide ACCEPTANCE of these things, which you yourself have engaged in, that you object to.

[TJDave]

Sorry, I meant Ben Carson.

Yes, the prominent doctor who proposed the 'Prison turns men gay therefore it can't be genetic' theory. I didn't know he also specialized in fetal stem cell research.

[classhandicapper]

A.) What are some of these "many things" of a "moral sexual nature"...which, although considered "obviously beneficial" by the many, are nevertheless not done because the left rejects them?

B.) So...since you've done some of these "same things"...it isn't the DOING that you object to...as long as this "doing" remains a secret...right? It's the wide ACCEPTANCE of these things, which you yourself have engaged in, that you object to.


One the first point I think I've already been very clear on the topic of abortion. But you can expand it to include having children out of wedlock. The left is unwilling to even suggest that's a bad idea. In fact you get killed by the media if you do because you might be hurting someone's feelings. :bang:

On the second point I thought I was also very clear. There is a difference between legality/acceptance and encouragement.

If I choose to live my girlfriend, that should be legal. But we don't have to consider it the moral equivalent of being in a committed marriage and we shouldn't encourage it.

If I chose to sleep around before that, that should be legal. But we don't have to consider it the moral equivalent of being in a committed relationship or marriage and we shouldn't encourage it.

I could go further down the list, but the point should be clear. Just because something is legal doesn't mean it's a good idea. Just because some people can behave responsibly doing these things, that doesn't mean everyone can. Just because some people get good results doesn't mean the overall results are equal.

[thaskalos]

One the first point I think I've already been very clear on the topic of abortion. But you can expand it to include having children out of wedlock. The left is unwilling to even suggest that's a bad idea. In fact you get killed by the media if you do because you might be hurting someone's feelings. :bang:

On the second point I thought I was also very clear. There is a difference between legality/acceptance and encouragement.

If I choose to live my girlfriend, that should be legal. But we don't have to consider it the moral equivalent of being in a committed marriage and we shouldn't encourage it.

If I chose to sleep around before that, that should be legal. But we don't have to consider it the moral equivalent of being in a committed relationship or marriage and we shouldn't encourage it.

I could go further down the list, but the point should be clear. Just because something is legal doesn't mean it's a good idea. Just because some people can behave responsibly doing these things, that doesn't mean everyone can. Just because some people get good results doesn't mean the overall results are equal.

You said previously that the "left" is responsible for "glorifying, normalizing, and considering as equal or superior" these "immoral acts"...which so many "moral" people are against.

Do you see the left "glorifying" abortion...or considering to be "preferable" to not having one?

[delayjf]

Yes, the prominent doctor who proposed the 'Prison turns men gay therefore it can't be genetic' theory. I didn't know he also specialized in fetal stem cell research.

Not sure regarding to the reference to Dr. Carson. but as a former Prison guard, I can tell you that "gay for the stay, straight at the Gate" was not that uncommon.

[fast4522]

You said previously that the "left" is responsible for "glorifying, normalizing, and considering as equal or superior" these "immoral acts"...which so many "moral" people are against.

Do you see the left "glorifying" abortion...or considering to be "preferable" to not having one?

Some find the late term procedure that as natural delivery occurs the doctor uses scissors to terminate the life by snipping the brain stem before the body exits. There is nothing that justifies this insanity.

[Tom]

Babies are not aborted.

Hitler called the Jews not human, too.
Similar position to take to keep your hands clean.

Obama supported legislation to "finish the job" on aborted babies that lived AFTER birth.

Whitewash it all you like.

[Tom]

Do you see the left "glorifying" abortion...or considering to be "preferable" to not having one?

Of course Unless of course, they can force someone else to pay for their contraception. The left can't be bothered with responsibility.

Pretty shaky ground for abortion when the only criteria you can come with is a timeline. In other words, baby or not, it will become nothing else. Unless you take definitive action to prevent that.

[classhandicapper]

You said previously that the "left" is responsible for "glorifying, normalizing, and considering as equal or superior" these "immoral acts"...which so many "moral" people are against.

Do you see the left "glorifying" abortion...or considering to be "preferable" to not having one?

My statements covered more than just abortion.

If you read the documentation and quotes from Planned Parenthood, it couldn't be more obvious they are agnostic as to the morality of every grey area choice that is legal, are pushing for things to be approved that are not legal now, and loath everyone that raises moral issues. There's no doubt where their priorities are.

I was just reading some articles on this fetal body parts controversy on my way home from work and an absolutely revolting thought crossed my mind. Planned Parenthood has a financial incentive to recommend abortions. Unfortunately, that could explain some things.

If you watch as much entertainment television, movies, talk shows etc... as I do, you will see every legal choice normalized or glorified no matter what the stats suggest on children out of wedlock, poverty, crime, STDs, mental health, etc... It's impossible to escape (that's from Hollywood). You will also see conservative values denigrated and people that attempt to make a non religious case for conservative values attacked (that's both Hollywood and more serious sources). If you actually bring up God, you will probably be dismissed as a lunatic or pushed aside.

If there's not a Satan, there should be one just to represent where we are going.

I am all for freedom and don't think God should be part of the conversation when it comes to laws. But some things are so obviously on the wrong side of the line you don't need God to figure out where we are going and why.

[xtb]

... This is because of a very-well financed campaign by Evangelical Fundamentalist groups to spread these lies about Sanger, through the promotion of books, websites, and other media. All of these lies stem from a series of books written by anti-abortion activist George Grant. Grant wrote several books about Sanger and Planned parenthood that are full of invented facts, misquotes from books, articles, and letters by Sanger, and falseley-attributed quotes. The books are literally a colleection of clever lies that have numerous footnotes, to make them appear to be legitimate.


My mother learned all about Margaret Sanger in nursing school from which she graduated in 1947. George Grant was born in 1954.

[thaskalos]

One the first point I think I've already been very clear on the topic of abortion. But you can expand it to include having children out of wedlock. The left is unwilling to even suggest that's a bad idea. In fact you get killed by the media if you do because you might be hurting someone's feelings. :bang:

On the second point I thought I was also very clear. There is a difference between legality/acceptance and encouragement.

If I choose to live my girlfriend, that should be legal. But we don't have to consider it the moral equivalent of being in a committed marriage and we shouldn't encourage it.

If I chose to sleep around before that, that should be legal. But we don't have to consider it the moral equivalent of being in a committed relationship or marriage and we shouldn't encourage it.

I could go further down the list, but the point should be clear. Just because something is legal doesn't mean it's a good idea. Just because some people can behave responsibly doing these things, that doesn't mean everyone can. Just because some people get good results doesn't mean the overall results are equal.
I don't know what you are advocating here. On the one hand, you say that you are "all for freedom". But then you go off and say that living with one's girlfriend isn't the "moral equivalent" of being in a committed, marital relationship. To whom would you like to assign the responsibility of judging what is "moral", and what ISN'T? In the "free society" that you say you are an advocate of...what do we say to the person who chooses to live with his girlfriend, instead of getting married to her? How do we express to him that his "lifestyle choice" is not what we would call a "good idea"? Whom is this guy BOTHERING by moving in with his girlfriend?

In a truly "free society", which you say that you favor...should anyone give a shit if something that is completely harmless to anyone else is considered "a bad idea" by you, or any other "moralist" here?

[TJDave]

Hitler called the Jews not human, too.


Thanks for stating the obvious.

Hitler was wrong... Just like those who call a fetus a baby.

[Clocker]

Just like those who call a fetus a baby.

When does a fetus become a baby?

[TJDave]

When does a fetus become a baby?

When it is born.

[PaceAdvantage]

Thanks for stating the obvious.

Hitler was wrong... Just like those who call a fetus a baby.There was a good point made on Fox News last night by Brit Hume. I rarely watch Fox News, but I was quite bored last night and flipped it on...

They were discussing this latest Planned Parenthood undercover video and Hume pointed out that whenever a pregnant woman (who is intent on having her baby) goes for a checkup, her doctor doesn't say "You have a healthy fetus...."

No, they say "the baby looks healthy by all accounts."

Or if a mother is worried, they say "don't worry, your baby is going to be fine..." not "your fetus is going to be fine."

Interesting point, I thought.

But then again, maybe the book on bedside manners has been changed and all doctors have been ordered to call it a fetus at every point until it finally pops out.

I'm not anti-abortion. But I'm also not some rabid "abortion on demand, any time, any place, for any reason," as the left constantly pushes.

This concerted effort to whitewash (a good word used earlier in this thread) the fact that YES, there is a human LIFE developing inside the mother...and even as early as first trimester, you can't escape the fact that this IS NOT merely a bunch of cells rapidly dividing.

It's really quite disturbing how abortion advocates have gone to great extremes to normalize the abortion process and make it akin to having a mole removed...dangerous and disturbing, in my opinion.

And again, I do not think abortion should be made illegal. But I think it's been taken way too far to the extremes.

[classhandicapper]

To whom would you like to assign the responsibility of judging what is "moral", and what ISN'T?


If you've been reading my comments, the answers should be very clear.

Morality tends to come from religious traditions, but God is not necessary. It could just as easily have been some really smart guys observing the world, figuring out what choices produced good results or bad results, and laying down some guidelines to promote better results for their people .

For example, it isn't that tough to figure out that single parenting is generally a bad idea. There are economic disadvantages, disadvantages in terms of guidance and discipline, disadvantages in terms of keeping on top of what the child is doing and making sure he is productive, active, going to school etc...

If you look at the stats, they are not as good as for 2 parent homes.

Therefore, the pressures in society should reflect that. You are free to become a single parent, but it should be clear to everyone that this is typically not a very good idea.

In our culture, single parenting by choice is shown in the media as an equivalent life choice. If you talk about the stats and disadvantages, YOU are sometimes attacked as insensitive, hateful, ignorant, backwards etc.. It's like some people are trying to screw up society even though what we should be doing is obvious.

Then both the children and society pay the economic and social costs.

There are all sorts of behaviors and choices that produce easy to measure negative results for individuals and society that our society normalizes, holds as equivalent to things that produce superior results, or even promotes.

That's all insane behavior.

Freedom only requires that you be legally able to choose what you want. It does not require that everyone promote bad choices or consider them morally equivalent. We are allowed to look at the results and judge what we want to promote.

[Grits]

Class, your post is pretty judgmental, and too, a bit archaic. Are you not aware that Thaskalos is a single parent? .....This man is the very last person I would choose to school on single parenting. The VERY last!!

[LottaKash]

Class, your post is pretty judgmental, and too, a bit archaic. Are you not aware that Thaskalos is a single parent? .....This man is the very last person I would choose to school on single parenting. The VERY last!!

Grits, in all fairness, judgemental and archaic aside, I don't think that Class was pointing any finger at Thaskalos...Most of us know that Gus is a widower, and not by choice at that...And, personally, I don't think that Gus would take it as a lesson in life either..

But, Class did say this tho: "In our culture, single parenting by choice is shown in the media as an equivalent life choice".

[Grits]

Grits, in all fairness, judgemental and archaic aside, I don't think that Class was pointing any finger at Thaskalos...Most of us know that Gus is a widower, and not by choice at that...And, personally, I don't think that Gus would take it as a lesson in life either..

But, Class did say this tho: "In our culture, single parenting by choice is shown in the media as an equivalent life choice".

Kash, I'm not thinking this was meant only for Thaskalos, surely not...there are a lot of single parents. But, Thask, in this case, is the wrong guy to be preaching to. I'm sorry, but I can't throw a blanket over all single parents either. Too, I cannot blame the morality of our country on any particular group, regardless, be it, celebrities, media, political party, ethnicity, or whatever. That's BS.

To be honest, I think too much time is spent complaining and wailing about the lives and choices of others as opposed to being concerned about our own.

I learned long ago, I cannot change people, I can only change how I react to them.

[PaceAdvantage]

To be honest, I think too much time is spent complaining and wailing about the lives and choices of others as opposed to being concerned about our own.

I learned long ago, I cannot change people, I can only change how I react to them.Amen sister! Guilty as charged, at times, on the first part...hope to incorporate more of the second part!

[LottaKash]

To be honest, I think too much time is spent complaining and wailing about the lives and choices of others as opposed to being concerned about our own.

I learned long ago, I cannot change people, I can only change how I react to them.

Fair enough Grits, and I understand and respect you on and about some of these things...Especially the looking out for own part... :)

[thaskalos]

Kash, I'm not thinking this was meant only for Thaskalos, surely not...there are a lot of single parents. But, Thask, in this case, is the wrong guy to be preaching to. I'm sorry, but I can't throw a blanket over all single parents either. Too, I cannot blame the morality of our country on any particular group, regardless, be it, celebrities, media, political party, ethnicity, or whatever. That's BS.

To be honest, I think too much time is spent complaining and wailing about the lives and choices of others as opposed to being concerned about our own.

I learned long ago, I cannot change people, I can only change how I react to them.
I appreciate the kind words, Grits...and I fully agree with you here. "Morality" -- in any way that we choose to define it -- is hardly the monopoly of the "conservatives"...no matter what the "moralist" Classhandicapper may think. There is nothing more ridiculous than the notion that the "liberals" are destroying the moral fiber of this country...while the "conservatives" are fighting hard to uphold it. The truth is that the vast majority of the citizens share both, liberal AND conservative views. And ALL of us should try to do a better job...if we want to see the family structure of this country become more stable.

Enough of this "blame game". It doesn't help things.

[AndyC]

...... And ALL of us should try to do a better job...if we want to see the family structure of this country become more stable.

Enough of this "blame game". It doesn't help things.

Therein lies the problem. There is a big divergence as to what doing a "better job" really means. We have been told for years that it is a money issue so like good little soldiers we have been waging a war on poverty by throwing money in the direction of any problem. How has that been working?

As ugly as the blame game is, it is important to examine the results of our past actions and possibly not repeat errors in the future.

[thaskalos]

Therein lies the problem. There is a big divergence as to what doing a "better job" really means. We have been told for years that it is a money issue so like good little soldiers we have been waging a war on poverty by throwing money in the direction of any problem. How has that been working?

As ugly as the blame game is, it is important to examine the results of our past actions and possibly not repeat errors in the future.
EXAMINE the results of our past actions...there is nothing wrong with that. But do a THOROUGH examination, before you conclude that the "liberals are destroying this counrty". Where is the proof that the "conservatives" are such champions of "morality"? Because of the rhetoric that they spew? The Bush presidency is still fresh on our minds; how "moral" was that?

However we choose to define "morality"...we cannot attribute it to any particular group...nor can we blame any particular group for its absence. There are "moral" people in every single group...and immoral people can be found anywhere as well.

[AndyC]

EXAMINE the results of our past actions...there is nothing wrong with that. But do a THOROUGH examination, before you conclude that the "liberals are destroying this counrty". Where is the proof that the "conservatives" are such champions of "morality"? Because of the rhetoric that they spew? The Bush presidency is still fresh on our minds; how "moral" was that?

However we choose to define "morality"...we cannot attribute it to any particular group...nor can we blame any particular group for its absence. There are "moral" people in every single group...and immoral people can be found anywhere as well.

I don't think I have played the morality card in this conversation or any conversations in this forum. I think arguments that I have made go to the effectiveness of policies put in place to achieve moral outcomes.

I don't think anybody has a monopoly on moral issues, nor do I think that everyone's moral values are the same.

[thaskalos]

I don't think I have played the morality card in this conversation or any conversations in this forum. I think arguments that I have made go to the effectiveness of policies put in place to achieve moral outcomes.

I don't think anybody has a monopoly on moral issues, nor do I think that everyone's moral values are the same.
When I said "you", I was speaking generally, not to YOU in particular. I know that you are not someone who plays the morality card here. My apologies for the confusion.

[classhandicapper]

Class, your post is pretty judgmental, and too, a bit archaic. Are you not aware that Thaskalos is a single parent? .....This man is the very last person I would choose to school on single parenting. The VERY last!!

I'm not judging him and it was definitely not personal. I hope he didn't take it that way. I'm only looking at stats. I've been pretty harsh on my own behavior in this thread to make the point on where I think we are going wrong as a society and that I am not holding myself up as morally superior. I am anything other than morally superior. :lol:

For all I know Thaskalos is the greatest parent on earth and any child of his
is at a dramatic advantage relative to the average. In all groups of stats, there are outliers. Thaskalos is an outlier.

On "average" though, it's a bad idea to be a single parent by choice and the stats support that.

I remember being brainwashed into thinking religious values shouldn't be part of our politics and no one should judge anyone else's actions and values because we are all individuals. Basically, I was taught moral relativism.

I fell for that crock of crap (and that's exactly what it is) just like most other people. I eventually figured out you don't need religion. You can determine what works best and what leads to poor results by looking at the overall statistical results. I'm not judging myself or thaskalos. I'm just quoting the stats and suggesting we should encourage behavior that produces better results. If I had a kid I'd tell him everything I did that was wrong and suggest he not make the same choices. But we can't do that at a larger level if you are attacked for merely suggesting that some behaviors/choices are better than others.

My view on this is not archaic. It's going to become a necessary change back or we are doomed.

[classhandicapper]

But do a THOROUGH examination, before you conclude that the "liberals are destroying this counrty".


I've focused my attention on Hollywood and the media. That's where I think the problem is. They are mostly liberals. I have't brought up rank and file democrats like most of my family, union workers, and other traditional democrats.

If you sell sex, drugs, violence, and rock roll you are going to get more sex, drugs, violence and rock and roll. And with that comes more crime, poverty, disease, and the rest of the economic and social costs.

There are plenty of conservatives and even religious people engaging in this kind of stuff and many liberals and atheists that are not. But most of those fighting it are religious people that get trashed by the media even worse for suggesting different life choices than getting caught doing this stuff. Who exactly do you think is trashing religious conservatives?

It makes no sense whatsoever.

I care about what other people are doing because we are all paying for it financially, with the quality of our lives, and perhaps with our actual lives.

[Clocker]

Nancy Pelosi sets the record straight. There is no controversy, because Planned Parenthood has said that they have done nothing illegal. Therefore, Congress needs to investigate the people that made the videos for stirring up a false controversy. :rolleyes:

http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/nancy-pelosi-investigate-pro-lifers-not-planned-parenthood

[Tom]

They need to throw Pelosi in the bay.

[Clocker]

They need to throw Pelosi in the bay.

Please. :eek:

The BP oil spill would pale in comparison as an environmental disaster.

[Tom]

I'm.....melllllllllting! :lol:

[PaceAdvantage]

Nancy Pelosi sets the record straight. There is no controversy, because Planned Parenthood has said that they have done nothing illegal. Therefore, Congress needs to investigate the people that made the videos for stirring up a false controversy. :rolleyes:

http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/nancy-pelosi-investigate-pro-lifers-not-planned-parenthoodI said the same thing about the Mitt Romney clip... :lol:

[railbird]

Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,674
vCash: 400

Nancy Pelosi sets the record straight. There is no controversy, because Planned Parenthood has said that they have done nothing illegal. Therefore, Congress needs to investigate the people that made the videos for stirring up a false controversy.

You got that right ,don;t investigate the criminal go after the persons reporting the crime .

Would never have dreamed we could come this far.

[mostpost]

Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,674
vCash: 400

Nancy Pelosi sets the record straight. There is no controversy, because Planned Parenthood has said that they have done nothing illegal. Therefore, Congress needs to investigate the people that made the videos for stirring up a false controversy.

You got that right ,don;t investigate the criminal go after the persons reporting the crime .

Would never have dreamed we could come this far.
There is no criminal. Not in this case anyway. If Planned Parenthood wanted to sell fetal body parts on the actual black market, they could get thousands of dollars for each organ; more likely tens of thousands. Instead, they get $30 to $100 as reimbursement for shipping and preparation costs.

If you really think about it-something most of you never do-it makes no sense that PP would sell body parts on the black market for $30. It also makes no sense that Dr. Nucatola would discuss this with virtual strangers if what they were doing was illegal.

On the other hand, depending on where the video was made, it could be illegal to record someone without their knowledge and consent. It can also be illegal to misrepresent yourself for gain.

[Tom]

On the other hand, depending on where the video was made, it could be illegal to record someone without their knowledge and consent.

So are the people who taped Romney in jail?
Hey, YOU guts lowered the bar - now it is no hold barred.
Live with it.

[horses4courses]

I heard a spokesperson for the group that put this film together
say this morning on Meet The Press that they are planning
to release a further 8-10 more of these.
That's pretty disgusting, in of itself.

An orchestrated plot with highly edited, selectively chosen, clips
that are designed to fire up the anti-abortion crowd.

False representation of Planned Parenthood, and all the good that it does.

:ThmbDown: :ThmbDown: :ThmbDown:

[Tom]

It does no good.

[Clocker]

There is no criminal. Not in this case anyway. If Planned Parenthood wanted to sell fetal body parts on the actual black market, they could get thousands of dollars for each organ; more likely tens of thousands. Instead, they get $30 to $100 as reimbursement for shipping and preparation costs.

In one of the videos, the PP rep said that some of their "customers" are present when the abortion is done and pick up the "tissue", so there are no prep or shipping costs, but they are still charged. And if you are charging your costs, that is non-negotiable, You know what your costs are and you charge that amount. But the PP rep, at least in the second video, is negotiating fees.

And it is indisputably illegal to change the standard protocol for an abortion in order to "harvest" better "tissue" samples. There is no question from the PP reps on either video that PP does exactly that. They use one method when doing a standard abortion, another "less crunchy" method for the harvest.

[Clocker]

False representation of Planned Parenthood, and all the good that it does.



I thought all that "good that it does" was supposed to be provided "free" by ObamaCare. So why are federal funds going to Planned Parenthood, in addition to the money they make selling "tissue"?

[mostpost]

So are the people who taped Romney in jail?
Hey, YOU guts lowered the bar - now it is no hold barred.
Live with it.

No, because Romney was a public figure at a public event. Maybe Romney and the organizers did not want it taped, but that is not a law. Too bad for them if they were unable to prevent it. Also I believe those laws refer to recording a conversation which has an expectation of privacy. A speech to contributors does not have that expectation.

[Clocker]

No, because Romney was a public figure at a public event. Maybe Romney and the organizers did not want it taped, but that is not a law. Too bad for them if they were unable to prevent it. Also I believe those laws refer to recording a conversation which has an expectation of privacy. A speech to contributors does not have that expectation.

None of which changes the fact that PP has been operating in violation of several federal, and possibly some state, laws. The PP people have stated on video that they are operating illegally. You are trying to deflect from that with the "But Mom, the other kids..." defense.

[mostpost]

At the beginning of the video, Dr. Nucatola states that she works out of Sherman Oaks. Sherman Oaks is in California, so it is extremely likely that the restaurant they were in is also in California. Here is information on the California law on recording a conversation; copied verbatim.

California Recording Law

Note: This page covers information specific to California. For general information concerning the use of recording devices see the Recording Phone Calls, Conversations, Meetings and Hearings section of this guide.

California Wiretapping Law

California's wiretapping law is a "two-party consent" law. California makes it a crime to record or eavesdrop on any confidential communication, including a private conversation or telephone call, without the consent of all parties to the conversation. See Cal. Penal Code § 632. The statute applies to "confidential communications" -- i.e., conversations in which one of the parties has an objectively reasonable expectation that no one is listening in or overhearing the conversation. See Flanagan v. Flanagan, 41 P.3d 575, 576-77, 578-82 (Cal. 2002). A California appellate court has ruled that this statute applies to the use of hidden video cameras to record conversations as well. See California v. Gibbons, 215 Cal. App. 3d 1204 (Cal Ct. App. 1989).

If you are recording someone without their knowledge in a public or semi-public place like a street or restaurant, the person whom you're recording may or may not have "an objectively reasonable expectation that no one is listening in or overhearing the conversation," and the reasonableness of the expectation would depend on the particular factual circumstances. Therefore, you cannot necessarily assume that you are in the clear simply because you are in a public place.

If you are operating in California, you should always get the consent of all parties before recording any conversation that common sense tells you might be "private" or "confidential." In addition to subjecting you to criminal prosecution, violating the California wiretapping law can expose you to a civil lawsuit for damages by an injured party. See Cal. Penal Code § 637.2.

Pay particular attention to the bolded parts. I think there is definitely reason to believe a crime has been committed, and not by Planned Parenthood.

[Clocker]

Pay particular attention to the bolded parts. I think there is definitely reason to believe a crime has been committed, and not by Planned Parenthood.

You are still tap dancing around the facts that it is highly likely that PP illegally sold "fetal tissue", i.e., body parts, and that they admitted using extraordinary means to "harvest" such "fetal tissue", which is illegal under federal law.

But Mom, the video was illegal!

[mostpost]

A new video just released shows a PP representative dickering over the price of the body parts.
No it doesn't. The phony person asks for a quote and the PP rep, after some side talk, puts out a figure of $75 per specimen. At which point the fake biotech person says "No, I want to pay more." The conversation on that subject pretty much ends there except for a comment by the PP rep that they do not want to even give the appearance of selling body parts.

If the doctor from Planned Parenthood were actually dickering about price, does it not make sense that she would be arguing for the higher price and the invisible lady would be arguing for the lower price? And no, you do not always know your costs ahead of time. There may be a ballpark figure ($30 to $100) but each case can vary.

[mostpost]

Here is another thing. Many people take the statement (which I am paraphrasing) "We don't want to be seen as selling body parts." as meaning, "We are selling body parts and we don't want anyone to know." In reality, it means, We are donating tissue, not selling body parts and we want it to be clear that is what we are doing."

When I say many people, I mean many people who do not know what they are talking about.

[mostpost]

You are still tap dancing around the facts that it is highly likely that PP illegally sold "fetal tissue", i.e., body parts, and that they admitted using extraordinary means to "harvest" such "fetal tissue", which is illegal under federal law.

But Mom, the video was illegal!
If you knew me, you would know how ridiculous the thought of me tap dancing around anything is. It is not highly likely that PP sold "Fetal tissue." It is very unlikely.

I know you "love" federal forms so you will be happy to know that each transaction requires the completion of a federal form detailing the specimen involved, the preparation of the specimen, and the costs. The states also have their own rules which must be followed.

As for those :Extraordinary" means of harvesting, I don't know what that means and you certainly don't. A doctor can change the method of performing the abortion and still be within the parameters of the law and medical ethics.

ETA: Whether the illegal video was illegal or not has nothing to with the question of whether Planned Parenthood is legally donating tissue. Clearly they are. Now let's arrest the sunzabitches who made that video.

[davew]

If you knew me, you would know how ridiculous the thought of me tap dancing around anything is. It is not highly likely that PP sold "Fetal tissue." It is very unlikely.

I know you "love" federal forms so you will be happy to know that each transaction requires the completion of a federal form detailing the specimen involved, the preparation of the specimen, and the costs. The states also have their own rules which must be followed.

As for those :Extraordinary" means of harvesting, I don't know what that means and you certainly don't. A doctor can change the method of performing the abortion and still be within the parameters of the law and medical ethics.

ETA: Whether the illegal video was illegal or not has nothing to with the question of whether Planned Parenthood is legally donating tissue. Clearly they are. Now let's arrest the sunzabitches who made that video.

for sure, attack the messenger not the message. the same for all those hiliary haters....

anyway-> Planned Parenthood President Says Organization Has Broken No Laws - so it must be true

[Clocker]

I know you "love" federal forms so you will be happy to know that each transaction requires the completion of a federal form detailing the specimen involved, the preparation of the specimen, and the costs. The states also have their own rules which must be followed.

As for those :Extraordinary" means of harvesting, I don't know what that means and you certainly don't. A doctor can change the method of performing the abortion and still be within the parameters of the law and medical ethics.


If the costs are known and fixed, how can PP negotiate the price? The tape clearly shows that PP is willing to negotiate.

"Extraordinary" means other than ordinary. On the tape, the PP rep offers to use other than ordinary methods to insure "tissue" that the buyer wants. That is in violation of federal law.

Gatter discusses the pricing of aborted baby body parts — telling the biotech company officials that the prices for such things as a baby’s liver, head or heart are negotiable. She also tells the officials that she could talk with the Planned Parenthood abortion practitioners to potentially alter the abortion procedure to kill the baby in a way that would best preserve those body parts after the unborn child is killed in the abortion.

The video shows Gatter haggling over payments for intact fetal specimens and offering to use a “less crunchy technique” to get more intact body parts.


http://hotair.com/archives/2015/07/21/second-planned-parenthood-baby-body-part-selling-video-may-be-worse-than-the-first/

[Clocker]

If you knew me, you would know how ridiculous the thought of me tap dancing around anything is. It is not highly likely that PP sold "Fetal tissue." It is very unlikely.


You are tap dancing around the point that the Planned Parenthood rep stated that they would use a method other than their normal procedure in order to preserve the baby organs that the buyer wanted. This is illegal. You refuse to admit that it happened and that it is against federal law.

[reckless]

At the beginning of the video, Dr. Nucatola states that she works out of Sherman Oaks. Sherman Oaks is in California, so it is extremely likely that the restaurant they were in is also in California. Here is information on the California law on recording a conversation; copied verbatim.

Pay particular attention to the bolded parts. I think there is definitely reason to believe a crime has been committed, and not by Planned Parenthood.

Mostpost, I have a bunch of live horses I like today at the Spa and at Parx, so I don't have time to do a Mr. Searchy ....

... so, in good faith, I am asking you, mostpost, to please link for us all those threads where you posted your disgust toward those illegal activities of the Obama IRS against conservative and religious organizations.

While you're at it, could you also include the links of your posts denouncing the illegal selling of arms to murderous Mexican drug cartels by Obama's Justice Department?

Thanks, I am sure there are many such posts by yours since you always question the conduct of those exposing Planned Parenthood, Kermit Gosnell and other representatives of the liberal and progressive way of life.

[PaceAdvantage]

At the beginning of the video, Dr. Nucatola states that she works out of Sherman Oaks. Sherman Oaks is in California, so it is extremely likely that the restaurant they were in is also in California. Here is information on the California law on recording a conversation; copied verbatim.


Pay particular attention to the bolded parts. I think there is definitely reason to believe a crime has been committed, and not by Planned Parenthood.Sounds like a pretty grey area in terms of it being in a public place (restaurant). You're making this sound way more cut and dry illegal than most reasonable people would rule in a court of law.

Has PP filed a civil suit yet? Are they demanding a criminal investigation? Will they be pressing charges against those who made these recordings?

Considering it appears by your way of thinking PP has been incredibly wronged by this secret tape, you would think the least they would do is press charges or file a civil suit. Maybe a restraining order to keep the rest of the recordings from being released?

What gives man?

[davew]

I can't wait for the next installment - some guy said they had many tapes similar to these 2, and some get even more graphic and explicit. They will be periodically released.

[LottaKash]

http://www.komando.com/happening-now/318101/planned-parenthood-hacked?utm_medium=nl&utm_source=notd&utm_content=2015-07-27-article_2-cta

Not much revealed thus far, but the hackers came away with sumpin... :cool:

[Tom]

Hop they dump tons of stuff for public viewing.

[Clocker]

Hop they dump tons of stuff for public viewing.

It will all be heavily edited to make Planned Parenthood look bad. :rolleyes:

[rastajenk]

At this point, what difference does it make?!?!

Hey, you know, you could use that just about anywhere anytime and sound presidential.

[Tom]

Is all this just another dem ploy to make the war on women drown out the border discussions?

[Clocker]

A third video released today:

A third Planned Parenthood video was released Tuesday morning that features a whistleblower who says her biomedical company would compensate Planned Parenthood clinics for fetal organs based on their condition and quality after being extracted from an abortion.

Holly O'Donnell is a former technician for California-based Stem Express, a company that contracts with abortion clinics for the tissue.

"The more valuable the tissue the more money you get, so if you can somehow procure a brain or a heart you're going to get more money than just umbilical cord," O'Donnell says in the video. "So I guess that's incentive to try and get the hard stuff because they get more money."



http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/3rd-planned-parenthood-video-out-huge-trafficking-of-fetal-tissues/article/2569091

[Clocker]

The video also shows a Planned Parenthood official describing how they try to maximize the payments they receive for "tissue". This is the direct opposite of the claim by PP, and its fan boys here, that PP only charges its costs to prepare and ship body parts.

According to the CMP, “Episode 1 also shows undercover video featuring the Vice President and Medical Director of Planned Parenthood of the Rocky Mountains (PPRM) in Denver, CO, Dr. Savita Ginde. PPRM is one of the largest and wealthiest Planned Parenthood affiliates and operates clinics in Colorado, New Mexico, Wyoming, and Nevada.”

“Standing in the Planned Parenthood abortion clinic pathology laboratory, where fetuses are brought after abortions, Ginde concludes that payment per organ removed from a fetus will be the most beneficial to Planned Parenthood: “I think a per-item thing works a little better, just because we can see how much we can get out of it.”



http://legalinsurrection.com/2015/07/third-planned-parenthood-video-suggests-they-profit-from-harvesting-baby-organs/#more-136161

[Clocker]

A 4th video has been released showing a Planned Parenthood official discussing how they avoid "legal consequences" and the availability of intact fetuses "if someone delivers before we are able to see them for a procedure".

Thursday morning, the Center for Medical Progress released their latest undercover Planned Parenthood video, which features Planned Parenthood Rocky Mountains VP & Medical Director Savita Ginde in a series of unbelievable statements. As the CMP puts it, she is caught on tape "negotiating a fetal body parts deal, agreeing multiple times to illicit pricing per body part harvested, and suggesting ways to avoid legal consequences."

There are many example of horrifying exchanges between the actors posing as buyers and the "doctor" making the sales pitch, but perhaps the most unbelievable was the casual discussion of "intact fetuses."



http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/intact-fetuses-sale-new-planned-parenthood-video-released

[fast4522]

Things are going that good for PP this week?

[reckless]

Is all this just another dem ploy to make the war on women drown out the border discussions?

Another distraction Tom, as is the wall-to-wall, over-the-top, Cecil the Lion saga.

[woodtoo]

California Judge blocks CMS videos of Stem Express showing leadership
discussing " full intact fetuses" harvested for their biotech research.

What's done in the dark, will come to the light.
I say send them to another country. You cant hide this crap.

[reckless]

Where is the moral outrage from the left about all this??

Oh yeah, I forgot. Shame on all those on the right, and all those that are simply, decent people, who are disgusted by the cold heartedness, the cruelty, the callousness... simply, shame on all those that are outraged by the immorality of all this.

The left often remind us of this: how dare conservatives even mention morality on people. And the PP episode is far from the first time we get a lecture from the left when one takes a moral position against an immoral act.

Once, someone suggested that the USA needed to interfere and stop the ISIS murders and beheadings of Christians and Muslins, on moral grounds if nothing else. No way, we were told. ISIS did what they did because of the Crusades!!

When these Planned Parenthood videos first surfaced, there were numerous and mindless posts here that didn't even mention the vulgarity of PP but criticized the motives and conduct of those doing the recording!!

These same liberals, here and across the USA, refuse to even acknowledge the dark purpose of Margaret Sanger, the founder of PP, which was genocide, pure and simple. And, where are many Planned Parenthood sites and offices located? You guess it, comrades, at or near poor, black and other minority communities. You know where, all the areas where vulnerable young women go for health care and advise but wind up getting an abortion. Hey, why not? My Porsch needs new tires.

We do hear this a lot ... all you right wingers just don't get it, do you? And, one more thing ... all you conservatives just better keep God out of the bedroom, got that! A dirty knife, used needles, dirty sheets and soiled beds are OK, but God.... keep him away, all you knuckle draggers.

[davew]

with 0bamaCare and the great policies, surely abortion is covered so why does planned parenthood still need money from the government to operate? It seems they are getting paid for their trash.

[woodtoo]

These tapes are available in unedited form, what happened to free speech?
This Obama nominated Judge, who just happens to be a big fund raiser for
Obama (over 200k) is shooting the messenger instead of charging PP with
many obvious crimes that are on the books right now.
This is pure effing evil.

[Tom]

California Judge blocks CMS videos of Stem Express showing leadership
discussing " full intact fetuses" harvested for their biotech research.

What's done in the dark, will come to the light.
I say send them to another country. You cant hide this crap.

How can they possible defend this decision?
THEY enforce the idea that killing them is legal and that they are not people yet.

Hypocrites - as if any judge ever had any credibility. Judges fund-raising????
Must be afraid that if the teeming masses of ignorant people see what they are killing, they will understand what is going on.

[woodtoo]

How can they possible defend this decision?
THEY enforce the idea that killing them is legal and that they are not people yet.

Hypocrites - as if any judge ever had any credibility. Judges fund-raising????
Must be afraid that if the teeming masses of ignorant people see what they are killing, they will understand what is going on.

BINGO!!!

[Robert Goren]

with 0bamaCare and the great policies, surely abortion is covered so why does planned parenthood still need money from the government to operate? It seems they are getting paid for their trash.Abortion is not covered under Obamacare, although I think it should be. Plan Parenthood does not receive federal money to provide abortions. It receives federal money for a wide range of birth control and counseling on reproductive issues. Amazingly enough, a lot of parents think they can keep their kids from having sex by keeping them ignorant. They seem to think God is going to keep their child from getting a STD if the child does not know it exists.
The anti-chioce crowd, which is constantly at war with Plan Parenthood, has among it some of the lowest forms of life on this planet. The movement has produced everything from computer hackers to snipers. It even produced a terrorist who set off a bomb at the Olympics and then help him escape capture for 5 years. The political power of the anti-choice movement reared its ugly head when the GWB justice dept. decide not to seek the death penalty. Would they have done same for an Islamic terrorist who killed two people in the attack and wound over a hundred? This guy was worse than the Boston Marathon bombers. They know no shame when it comes to protecting their own.

[woodtoo]

Abortion is not covered under Obamacare, although I think it should be. Plan Parenthood does not receive federal money to provide abortions. It receives federal money for a wide range of birth control and counseling on reproductive issues. Amazingly enough, a lot of parents think they can keep their kids from having sex by keeping them ignorant. They seem to think God is going to keep their child from getting a STD if the child does not know it exists. The anti-chioce crowd has among it some of the lowest forms of life on this planet. The movement has produced every thing from computer hackers to snipers. It even produced a terrorist who set off a bomb at the Olympics and then help him escape capture for 5 years. The power of the anti-choice movement reared it ugly head when the GWB decide not to seek the death penalty. Would they have done same for an Islamic terrorist who killed two people in the attack and wound over a hundred? This guy was worse than the Boston Marathon bomber. They are determined to force their religious beliefs on to non-believers. Beliefs, I might add, that have no Biblical justification and are not shared by many Christian sects.
Please excuse this post as it way off point to the discussion.

A Judge has blocked the viewing of these videos for no apparent reason other than to protect PP from the damage these videos may cause if the public were to view them. Free speech anyone?

nice try Robert.

[Clocker]

Abortion is not covered under Obamacare, although I think it should be. Plan Parenthood does not receive federal money to provide abortions. It receives federal money for a wide range of birth control and counseling on reproductive issues.

This is like saying that someone on food stamps does not receive federal money for beer. If your grocery budget consists of cash and food stamps, and if beer is part of your grocery purchase, the food stamps are freeing up cash to buy beer.

Also, Obamacare is supposed to provide all those reproductive services for free, so why do we also have to fund PP to provide them?

[Tom]

Good question.
The depravity of the left is expensive is the only reason I can come up with.

[thaskalos]

Is there any proof that only democrats opt for abortions...or do republicans run for abortions too, when inconvenient pregnancies come about?

[horses4courses]

Is there any proof that only democrats opt for abortions...or do republicans run for abortions too, when inconvenient pregnancies come about?

Interesting question.

Another situation could be added to this.
Have any pro-life politicians ever had a family member
impregnated through rape and, if so, did they change their stance?

Intriguing how some defend pregnancies through rape as "God's way".
Brother...... :bang:

[Clocker]

Lots of talk here about abortion and morality and other things, all trying to deflect from the original issue.

Like it or not, abortion is legal in this country. The issue is that Planned Parenthood is getting $500 million a year in federal money while repeatedly violating federal law. Federal law says that "tissue" from abortions cannot be sold. It can be donated, and compensation can be made for the actual costs of preparation and transport. It is clear from those videos that PP is selling body parts. When the buyer is present at the abortion and prepares and takes the body parts, there are no costs to PP.

There is also a federal law that says that an abortion provider cannot use any special procedures, other than is normal, for the purpose of harvesting body parts. PP is clearly doing that, by the recorded comments of its own officials. They use a "less crunchy" method.

No one defending PP here or in the media admits that those two things are happening and that they are illegal. They either ignore them or try to define them away.

[woodtoo]

If it matters, Stem Express founder and CEO Cate Dyer is the younger sister of
John Boehners health policy director Charlotte Ivancic.

Johns all talk as we all know.

[Tom]

Is there any proof that only democrats opt for abortions...or do republicans run for abortions too, when inconvenient pregnancies come about?

No doubt both side go it, not the point.
It is a hallmark position of the left.
Hell is a big place - both parties are welcome to go there.

[TJDave]

If it matters, Stem Express founder and CEO Cate Dyer is the younger sister of
John Boehners health policy director Charlotte Ivancic.

Johns all talk as we all know.

Why would it matter?

[Clocker]

A fifth video has been released. It seems PP's menu has expanded from "tissue" to "intact fetal cadavers". Reports are that it shows a Planned Parenthood executive talking about providing "intact" fetuses, and how they "get creative" to do that, and how that can contribute to PP's "revenue stream".

A Planned Parenthood official discusses the procurement and cost of "intact" fetuses and altering abortion procedures to meet specific needs in a video released Tuesday by an anti-abortion group.

In the fifth of a series of videos from the Center for Medical Progress, a woman identified as Melissa Farrell, director of research for Planned Parenthood Gulf Coast, discusses contributing to the organization's "diversification of the revenue stream" and the potential to "get creative" with conditions for procurement needs. The video was reportedly filmed in April at a Planned Parenthood facility in Texas.


"If we alter our process and we are able to obtain intact fetal cadavers, then we can make it part of the budget, that any dissections are this, and splitting the specimens into different shipments is this. I mean, it's all just a matter of line items," she says.

I am not an attorney, but in my humble nonlegal opinion, that last paragraph would lead one to believe that it represents a violation of the law against using any process other that the standard one, and a violation of the law against charging more than the actual costs of processing "tissue".

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/250179-fifth-planned-parenthood-video-turns-to-intact-fetuses

[TJDave]

I am not an attorney, but in my humble nonlegal opinion, that last paragraph would lead one to believe that it represents a violation of the law against using any process other that the standard one, and a violation of the law against charging more than the actual costs of processing "tissue".

If guilty, what are the penalties?

[mostpost]

A fifth video has been released. It seems PP's menu has expanded from "tissue" to "intact fetal cadavers". Reports are that it shows a Planned Parenthood executive talking about providing "intact" fetuses, and how they "get creative" to do that, and how that can contribute to PP's "revenue stream".



I am not an attorney, but in my humble nonlegal opinion, that last paragraph would lead one to believe that it represents a violation of the law against using any process other that the standard one, and a violation of the law against charging more than the actual costs of processing "tissue".

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/250179-fifth-planned-parenthood-video-turns-to-intact-fetuses
I AM SHOCKED!!!! That anyone could think there is anything in that video. Thank God you are not an attorney. If there ever was a trial of the people at PP for illegally selling body parts, any good defense attorney would destroy that "Investigator" on the witness stand. Of course, there will never be such a trial because any competent prosecutor will recognize there is no case.

All of the conversation about extra compensation is initiated by the buyer. PP merely responds by explaining how that organization determines its costs. Your idea that there is a one size fits all compensation is nonsense.

While I am thanking God, I should also thank Him that you are not a doctor.
The fact that there are specified procedures for performing abortions and procuring fetal tissue does not mean that there are not variations allowed within those procedures. Why don't you find the law that outlines those procedures and prove to me that Planned Parenthood is breaking the law?

[horses4courses]

http://www.factcheck.org/2011/04/planned-parenthood/

I understand that abortions account for around 3% of PP services.
They do an awful lot of good for women - especially in lower income groups.
Conservative males would never admit that, though.

Bear in mind, the wealthy never have difficulty accessing such services privately.
That goes for abortions, as well.

[mostpost]

This is like saying that someone on food stamps does not receive federal money for beer. If your grocery budget consists of cash and food stamps, and if beer is part of your grocery purchase, the food stamps are freeing up cash to buy beer.

Also, Obamacare is supposed to provide all those reproductive services for free, so why do we also have to fund PP to provide them?
Obamacare does not provide anything. Obamacare makes it possible for people to buy insurance which pays for part of the costs of those services. A substantial part.

Some of the women who go to Planned Parenthood do not have insurance. (And if you have your way, they never will.) Some do not have sufficient insurance.
Funding Planned Parenthood does not just provide contraception and abortion, it also provides testing for various types of cancer; provides pre and post natal care; provides midlife and other types of counseling; provides treatment for STDs.

[horses4courses]

Obamacare does not provide anything. Obamacare makes it possible for people to buy insurance which pays for part of the costs of those services. A substantial part.

Some of the women who go to Planned Parenthood do not have insurance. (And if you have your way, they never will.) Some do not have sufficient insurance.
Funding Planned Parenthood does not just provide contraception and abortion, it also provides testing for various types of cancer; provides pre and post natal care; provides midlife and other types of counseling; provides treatment for STDs.

Don't leave out advice on adoption.
A lot of unwanted pregnancies can be sustained this way.

[AndyC]

Obamacare does not provide anything. Obamacare makes it possible for people to buy insurance which pays for part of the costs of those services. A substantial part.

Some of the women who go to Planned Parenthood do not have insurance. (And if you have your way, they never will.) Some do not have sufficient insurance.
Funding Planned Parenthood does not just provide contraception and abortion, it also provides testing for various types of cancer; provides pre and post natal care; provides midlife and other types of counseling; provides treatment for STDs.

Obamacare mandates coverage so they do provide it. Why would a woman not have insurance when it can be paid by the government if she can't afford it?

[Clocker]

Obamacare does not provide anything. Obamacare makes it possible for people to buy insurance which pays for part of the costs of those services. A substantial part.

I didn't say anything about ObamaCare. I said that the claim that direct federal funding of Planned Parenthood does not pay for abortions is inane because money is fungible.

[Clocker]

If there ever was a trial of the people at PP for illegally selling body parts, any good defense attorney would destroy that "Investigator" on the witness stand. Of course, there will never be such a trial because any competent prosecutor will recognize there is no case.



Obviously you are not an attorney either. The video could never be evidence, and the "Investigator" would never be on the witness stand. The video is probable cause to open an investigation against Planned Parenthood. There most likely will be no such investigation because of political correctness and "prosecutorial discretion".

[ArlJim78]

it's shameful that the horrific acts taken upon the unborn have so many defenders. It's truly barbaric how many are exterminated each day in the PP death camps.

[horses4courses]

it's shameful that the horrific acts taken upon the unborn have so many defenders. It's truly barbaric how many are exterminated each day in the PP death camps.

Death camps?
BS.......

Wouldn't it be nice if all pregnancies were planned?
Around half in the US are not.

Welcome to the real world.
A world that would be much worse off
without the work that PP does for women.

[Clocker]

Some here point to the Planned Parenthood statement that only 3% of what they do is abortions. What that means is that every single thing that they do for any patient is counted as a service, and an abortion is a service and a pregnancy test is a service. That says nothing about how much of their time and money and resources are used for abortions.

The 3 percent figure is an artifice and a dodge, but even taking it on its own terms, it’s not much of a defense. Only Planned Parenthood would think saying that they only kill babies 3 percent of the time is something to brag about. How much credit would we give someone for saying he only drives drunk 3 percent of the time, or only cheats on business trips 3 percent of the time, or only hits his wife during 3 percent of domestic disputes?

The 3 percent factoid is crafted to obscure the reality of Planned Parenthood’s business. The group performs about 330,000 abortions a year, or roughly 30 percent of all the abortions in the country. By its own accounting in its 2013–2014 annual report, it provides about as many abortions as Pap tests (380,000). The group does more breast exams and provides more breast-care services (490,000), but not by that much.


By Planned Parenthood’s math, a woman who gets an abortion but also a pregnancy test, an STD test, and some contraceptives has received four services, and only 25 percent of them are abortion. This is a little like performing an abortion and giving a woman an aspirin, and saying only half of what you do is abortion.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/421981/planned-parenthood-dishonest-3-percent-figure

[TJDave]

Death camps?
BS.......

Wouldn't it be nice if all pregnancies were planned?
Around half in the US are not.

Welcome to the real world.
A world that would be much worse off
without the work that PP does for women.

Of course, BS.

All unwanted pregnancies should end in abortion. The world will be better off.

[davew]

Some here point to the Planned Parenthood statement that only 3% of what they do is abortions. What that means is that every single thing that they do for any patient is counted as a service, and an abortion is a service and a pregnancy test is a service. That says nothing about how much of their time and money and resources are used for abortions.


Don't forget the campaign donations to help keep their government funding...

[Clocker]

Don't forget the campaign donations to help keep their government funding...

Money apparently well spent on their part.:rolleyes:

[horses4courses]

Of course, BS.

All unwanted pregnancies should end in abortion. The world will be better off.

Not at all.
Some people can cope with unexpected pregnancies.
I'm guessing that is the case in most of those situations.
Adoption is another viable proposition.

However, in some circumstances abortion in the
early stages of pregnancy is necessary.
Teen pregnancies, pregnancies through rape,
criminal and abusive situations, significant fetal defects
that risk the lives of the unborn and/or the mother.

Women aren't cattle.
They have the right to choose how to handle their own body.

Of course, abortion is a regrettable resolution.
It should only be used as a last resort,
and early enough in a pregnancy.

I've lived in a country where abortion was outlawed.
It lead to more problems, dark secrets, and trips to
neighboring countries to do "the deed" in isolation.
Women deserve better treatment in a modern civilized society.

[Clocker]

However, in some circumstances abortion in the
early stages of pregnancy is necessary.

A lot of people that have some problems with abortion in general, and a lot of problems with Planned Parenthood in particular, would agree with that. I think that Bill Clinton got it right when he said

Abortion should not only be safe and legal, it should be rare.

I think that abortion as a form of birth control is, in a non-religious sense, immoral. I think that a lot of abortions are "buyers' remorse" birth control. If Planned Parenthood is indeed doing over 300,000 abortions a year, and if that is 30% of the abortions in the country, that is over a million a year. This in a country that has about 4 million births a year. That is not special circumstances, and that is not rare. That is birth control.

[TJDave]

That is not special circumstances, and that is not rare. That is birth control.

Good.

[Clocker]

Good.

Why not just sterilize anyone we deem guilty of unacceptable or irresponsible procreation? Some people just don't know what is good for them.

[TJDave]

Why not just sterilize anyone we deem guilty of unacceptable or irresponsible procreation? Some people just don't know what is good for them.

Because it would not be their choice.

[woodtoo]

Because it would not be their choice.
Can I buy "their" choice remains, under the table of course.

[Clocker]

Because it would not be their choice.

A lot of people are forced to buy ObamaCare, and that is not their choice. But Big Brother has decided that those people do not know what is good for them, so they have to buy it for their own good and that of society. We have fewer and fewer choices every day. Why draw the line there?

[Robert Fischer]

Wish there was a market for pinky-toes.

[dartman51]

Wish there was a market for pinky-toes.


Why?? Are you overstocked? :lol:

[Robert Fischer]

https://wadevenden.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/montoya.jpg

[Clocker]

According to the White House, the credibility of the Planned Parenthood videos is highly questionable. And the videos have been heavily edited and clearly have an ideological ax to grind. White House mouthpiece Josh Earnest says he knows this because that's what he read in news reports, although he has not seen any of them.

That is Earnest's response when pushed for a response by CNN's Jake Tapper, apparently the only real journalist left in the mainstream media.

http://hotair.com/archives/2015/08/05/video-tapper-asks-press-sec-why-nobody-at-white-house-has-watched-pp-videos/

[davew]

According to the White House, the credibility of the Planned Parenthood videos is highly questionable. And the videos have been heavily edited and clearly have an ideological ax to grind. White House mouthpiece Josh Earnest says he knows this because that's what he read in news reports, although he has not seen any of them.

That is Earnest's response when pushed for a response by CNN's Jake Tapper, apparently the only real journalist left in the mainstream media.

http://hotair.com/archives/2015/08/05/video-tapper-asks-press-sec-why-nobody-at-white-house-has-watched-pp-videos/


interesting, as many feel the credibility of the white house is also highly questionable.

[PaceAdvantage]

Because it would not be their choice.Someone should ask the unborn if they want to continue or be terminated...my guess is a lot of them would answer "let's go through with this..."

But I get it...it's not a life until it pops out of the womb...with that being the case, it's surprising how obsessive women seem to be (who are intent on carrying to term), when it comes to the health and well being of the clump of cells growing inside of them. One would think, given the nonchalant attitude of those who favor abortion-on-demand, most expectant mothers would reserve their worrying until after the fetus takes its first gulp of air. :rolleyes:

[Tom]

If not interfered with, all fetuses will pop out a baby.
Never heard of a rutaga pooping out.

Non-fertilized eggs never become babies.
Lost sperm never do either.
Only time a baby starts on the way is after conception.
No magic dust is applied in the birth canal.

So to say life doesn't begin there is rather idiotic, doncha know?

[Clocker]

But I get it...it's not a life until it pops out of the womb...

Barbara Boxer (D-CA) says it is not until it leaves the hospital.

“I think when you bring your baby home, when your baby is born … the baby belongs to your family and has all the rights.”
Read more: http://www.ncregister.com/blog/danielle-bean/barbara-boxer-pro-choice-until-you-bring-baby-home/#ixzz3i3zrVepn

[mostpost]

Barbara Boxer (D-CA) says it is not until it leaves the hospital.
There is a lot to not like about this article. Here is a pertinent part.
In an effort to pin down when, exactly, a rabidly “pro-choice” senator like Boxer would consent to give a human baby the constitutional right not to be killed, Santorum asks:
Why is Boxer portrayed as rabidly pro choice, but Santorum is not portrayed as rabidly prolife? The answer is obvious. It is to make Boxer look as bad as possible. We picture a rabid dog, snarling and foaming at the mouth.
“You agree, once a child is born, is separated from the mother, that that child is protected by the Constitution and cannot be killed? Do you agree with that?”
This is a stupid question. Santorum is implying that the pro-choice crowd wants to kill healthy babies. But then, Santorum is a stupid man.
Boxer responds:
“I think when you bring your baby home, when your baby is born … the baby belongs to your family and has all the rights.”
Note the phrase I placed in red. That is the important phrase. "When your baby is born" Otherwise we have to assume that Boxer is saying it is all right to kill your baby as long as you do it in the hospital. I am not so dumb as to think that. Apparently some people are.

Read more: http://www.ncregister.com/blog/danielle-bean/barbara-boxer-pro-choice-until-you-bring-baby-home/#ixzz3i4xhnPKY
I have to put something here otherwise the site will tell me my post is too short.

[Clocker]

There is a lot to not like about this article.

You mean like the fact that Boxer is an idiot? That is not changed by your deflection that Santorum is also an idiot.

Your highlighting in red the few words that Boxer said that you like doesn't change the fact that she said a child has human rights after the family takes it home and it "belongs" to them.

She said something stupid, period. If she believes it, she is stupid. If she doesn't believe it, saying it is stupid. Nothing you can say changes that fact.

[Tom]

Pro-choice mean pro killer.

And Boxer is a total idiot.

[Clocker]

And Boxer is a total idiot.

That would be "Senator Boxer is a total idiot" if you don't mind. She throws a real hissy fit if you don't call her "Senator".

[Tom]

How about we compromise on Senator Idiot?

[Clocker]

How about we compromise on Senator Idiot?

That doesn't exactly narrow things down, does it?

[Tom]

Gets it down to 100.

[highnote]

The anti-chioce crowd, which is constantly at war with Plan Parenthood, has among it some of the lowest forms of life on this planet. The movement has produced everything from computer hackers to snipers. It even produced a terrorist who set off a bomb at the Olympics and then help him escape capture for 5 years. The political power of the anti-choice movement reared its ugly head when the GWB justice dept. decide not to seek the death penalty. Would they have done same for an Islamic terrorist who killed two people in the attack and wound over a hundred? This guy was worse than the Boston Marathon bombers. They know no shame when it comes to protecting their own.

I was reading about "Bleeding Kansas" (a.k.a. the Kansas Border War) yesterday and I realized there are some similarities between the abortion and slavery issues in terms of the way proponents on each side of the fence react to the other side.

In the 1850s war broke out between the slavery and anti-slavery factions along the border of Kansas because the people of a new state could decide on the issue of slavery. Neither side wanted the other side to win.

The term "Bleeding Kansas" was coined by Republican Horace Greeley, editor of the New York Tribune; its violence indicated that compromise was unlikely and thus it presaged the Civil War.

I don't know if the pro-choice and pro-life stances will lead to civil war, but I do think there will continue to be violence as long as the issue remains unresolved.

[zico20]

There is a video in this article that says a baby's heart is still beating after an abortion. It is amazing how many people don't think the baby is human while it is inside the mother.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/08/19/baby-heart-still-beating-after-abortion-doctor-says-in-new-anti-abortion-video/

[LottaKash]

There is a video in this article that says a baby's heart is still beating after an abortion. It is amazing how many people don't think the baby is human while it is inside the mother.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/08/19/baby-heart-still-beating-after-abortion-doctor-says-in-new-anti-abortion-video/

It is sickening to even mentally hallucinate what they are doing to the babies in these "slaughterhouses of evil"...

How sick and demented these people are... This country has truly lost it's moral way to even consider these abominations as something that is normal and practical...and good....sick..

[classhandicapper]

I'm sure many of the cases that pro life advocates point to are the exceptions, but even if they make up a small percentage of all abortions, they would probably make Hitler squeamish.

[Clocker]

The examples are not relevant to the larger issue. Planned Parenthood is breaking laws. It is against the law to sell "fetal tissue" and it is against the law to change the abortion methods in order to obtain "tissue" that cannot be obtained using the normal procedure.

Planned Parenthood gets $500 million a year in federal money. No federal money is supposed to be used for abortions. No matter how they try to define it otherwise, that money is fungible, and helps support an organization that performs abortions and that breaks the law. Apologists for PP say that it provides other women's health services too. So do other groups that don't perform abortions. Give the money to them.

[davew]

I think they get plenty of state money as well. I heard that WA state gives them $50 million.

[Clocker]

I think they get plenty of state money as well. I heard that WA state gives them $50 million.

I thought ObamaCare was supposed to provide all that stuff free. :rolleyes:

[JustRalph]

I wonder why this is being ignored?

Planned parenthood loses big.

Videos held up as authentic

Tick tock.......after the Supremes get done with this the Texas law will be copied everywhere

https://hotair.com/archives/2019/01/18/fifth-circuit-drops-bombshell-planned-parenthood-defunding-comes-one-step-closer/

[xtb]

I wonder why this is being ignored?

Planned parenthood loses big.

Videos held up as authentic

Tick tock.......after the Supremes get done with this the Texas law will be copied everywhere

https://hotair.com/archives/2019/01/18/fifth-circuit-drops-bombshell-planned-parenthood-defunding-comes-one-step-closer/

Great news.

[MargieRose]

'Goodness' is going to win...hugely. It's just a matter of time! :)

[JustRalph]

https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2019/09/10/wow-the-duo-who-exposed-planned-parenthood-are-in-court-and-the-testimony-is-horrifying/

The saga continues

[xtb]

https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2019/09/10/wow-the-duo-who-exposed-planned-parenthood-are-in-court-and-the-testimony-is-horrifying/

The saga continues

"Doe 12 says in the video there’s a great demand for “raw fetal tissue,” and that the “insanely fragile” neural or brain tissue is best shipped in a “whole calvarium,” or head, whereupon Daleiden says, “Just make sure the eyes are closed.”

“Yeah,” laughs Doe 12, “Tell the lab techs it’s coming…it’s almost like they don’t want to know what it is.”

[PaceAdvantage]

SILENCE!

No witty memes or tweets? I'm shocked...shocked I tells ya!

[TJDave]

IMO, it would be fitting that all medical advancements attributed to embryonic stem cell research be denied to those who oppose abortion.

Fortunately, for you ...no one listens to me.

[davew]

2,246 preserved fetal remains found in abortion doctors home


https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/sep/16/ulrich-klopfer-fetal-remains-prompt-attorney-gener/

[PaceAdvantage]

IMO, it would be fitting that all medical advancements attributed to embryonic stem cell research be denied to those who oppose abortion.

Fortunately, for you ...no one listens to me.But I don't oppose abortion, so there's that.

I do oppose the way abortion is viewed by a good chunk of people (especially Democrats), and the way it has sort of become just another form of contraception. It's the freewheeling attitude I'm opposed to...the "anything goes" attitude that has become the norm because somehow, Dems, the supposed party of SCIENCE, have abandoned science when it comes to the unborn.

[FantasticDan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoudH-RPnEE

[Tom]

Weeks ago I asked the so-called scientists here to answer a few easy questions as to when life actually occurs. Scientifically, there is a point were a non-living substance become a living organism.

Not one was able to step up and provide scientific proof.
Surely, I opined, there was a magical ring in the birth canal that granted life as the fetus passed through it.

Come on, hcap.....what say yee scientists?

[PaceAdvantage]

Any part still inside the oven (even a little toe), and the thing is fair game for death. That's Dems ignoring SCIENCE.

Party of science my ass.

[davew]

Any part still inside the oven (even a little toe), and the thing is fair game for death. That's Dems ignoring SCIENCE.

Party of science my ass.

They are the 'selective' party. They select what science, social cause, worldwide view they agree with and everyone else is a loser.

[TJDave]

Any part still inside the oven (even a little toe), and the thing is fair game for death. That's Dems ignoring SCIENCE.

Party of science my ass.

When has science argued that abortion doesn’t result in the death of an embryo?

[PaceAdvantage]

Jokes

[MargieRose]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoudH-RPnEEBest pro-life video I've seen! "If I'm wrong, perhaps we're wrong." :ThmbUp:

[Tom]

If they are selling body parts, some here should get a quote on a new head.