2015 Breeders Cup Classic: Who Is Left?

[Lemon Drop Husker]

With the latest news of California Chrome incurring a year-ending (if not career-ending) injury, the potential entrants for the crown jewel of the older horse division in the grand old United States is beginning to look rather bleak.

I'll use Mike Watchmakers recent rankings and add some others for talking points:

1. Shared Belief: Best horse in the country at 9-10 panels is injured after a trip to Charles Town. Hasn't raced since. Likely out for the year.

2. California Chrome: Recent injury. OUT.

3. Honor Code: Will he run 10 panels, or opt for the BC Dirt Mile? With the top two possibly/likely out, he may well be the top contender. Needs more seasoning at 9 - 10 panels before we get too excited about his prospects, but he is an extremely talented horse with serious top end speed.

4. Tonalist: 2015 hasn't been all that great. Sure, he won a G3, but got beat by Effinex and was parked by Honor Code at a mile. His 5th in the BC Classic last year wasn't horrible, but he was never a factor. He has to step up and show he is a major contender at 10 panels before he really becomes of any interest to me.

5. Constitution: Haven't seen him since a G1 victory over Lea in February. While a nice wire to wire win, is he hurt?

6. Lea: As solid as any horse in the division right now. Always runs hard and gives his best. His Stephen Foster loss to Noble Bird can be forgiven after his trip back from Meydan. Still, he just always seems to be a notch below the best of the best. However, if the best of the best aren't here.., where would he stand?

7. Noble Bird: I'm not going to get too excited about a dream trip, dream ride, and dream set up at the absolute right time for NB in the Stephen Foster. Either way, if he stays healthy, he'll be in the gate come Halloween in Lexington. If he isn't 20/1 or more, it is a weak field.

8. Hard Aces: This could be the horse getting better at the right time. His 2015 campaign is looking better and better without the top 2 in the mix. Will be really interesting to see how he rolls into the BC Classic after earning an automatic entry. I love me some Hard Spun lineage, so I'll be watching closely. Would be a crazy story for a 5YO horse that was nothing more than a common everyday allowance horse at the Fair Grounds just a year ago.

9. Hoppertunity: Gotta respect this horse as he always puts forth a solid effort. Unfortunately, he just doesn't have enough to win against the better of his rivals in his division. Even without SB or CC. A solid horse that needs to progress more than any other on this list for me to get interested.

10. Effinex: A sneaky horse to watch. He is getting better almost every time out. He got some handicap help in his win over Tonalist last out, but at some point in time a win is a win. Probably not a huge player, but one to keep an eye on if he keeps making more strides.

OTHERS OF NOTE:

American Pharoah: Obviously the ONE to watch over the next 3 months rolling into the BC Classic. He'll likely get 2 races heading in after a freshening. After the Haskell, it will be interesting if they take on some older horses in an obviously weakened division.

Dortmund: I know many will want to discard him after his KD and Preakness efforts, but this is still a massive horse that may not have grown into his frame just yet. For a horse that can pound out :12 second furlong splits after splits like nobodies business, he gets little respect. Where does he show up next?

Firing Line: Solid horse. Not sure he can get much better, but he will compete on the front end. Not sure 10 panels is right for him. Maybe the BC Dirt Mile if healthy?

Frosted: He may well be the most interesting of the 3YOs this year with the most upside potential. He has to get better, obviously, but I firmly believe he can. Next out needs to be solid, and he needs to run huge in a race to even be considered for this race.

I have to believe we'll get some horses from across the pond interested again this year to run in the Classic if a "stud" horse or two doesn't come about other than AP.

Thoughts?

[SoCalCircuit]

Does Aiden plan on sending anyone over this year? He seems to get a little closer every year and I could easily see him taking the classic one of these years.

[horses4courses]

With the latest news of California Chrome incurring a year-ending (if not career-ending) injury, the potential entrants for the crown jewel of the older horse division in the grand old United States is beginning to look rather bleak.

I'll use Mike Watchmakers recent rankings and add some others for talking points:

1. Shared Belief: Best horse in the country at 9-10 panels is injured after a trip to Charles Town. Hasn't raced since. Likely out for the year.

2. California Chrome: Recent injury. OUT.

3. Honor Code: Will he run 10 panels, or opt for the BC Dirt Mile? With the top two possibly/likely out, he may well be the top contender. Needs more seasoning at 9 - 10 panels before we get too excited about his prospects, but he is an extremely talented horse with serious top end speed.

4. Tonalist: 2015 hasn't been all that great. Sure, he won a G3, but got beat by Effinex and was parked by Honor Code at a mile. His 5th in the BC Classic last year wasn't horrible, but he was never a factor. He has to step up and show he is a major contender at 10 panels before he really becomes of any interest to me.

5. Constitution: Haven't seen him since a G1 victory over Lea in February. While a nice wire to wire win, is he hurt?

6. Lea: As solid as any horse in the division right now. Always runs hard and gives his best. His Stephen Foster loss to Noble Bird can be forgiven after his trip back from Meydan. Still, he just always seems to be a notch below the best of the best. However, if the best of the best aren't here.., where would he stand?

7. Noble Bird: I'm not going to get too excited about a dream trip, dream ride, and dream set up at the absolute right time for NB in the Stephen Foster. Either way, if he stays healthy, he'll be in the gate come Halloween in Lexington. If he isn't 20/1 or more, it is a weak field.

8. Hard Aces: This could be the horse getting better at the right time. His 2015 campaign is looking better and better without the top 2 in the mix. Will be really interesting to see how he rolls into the BC Classic after earning an automatic entry. I love me some Hard Spun lineage, so I'll be watching closely. Would be a crazy story for a 5YO horse that was nothing more than a common everyday allowance horse at the Fair Grounds just a year ago.

9. Hoppertunity: Gotta respect this horse as he always puts forth a solid effort. Unfortunately, he just doesn't have enough to win against the better of his rivals in his division. Even without SB or CC. A solid horse that needs to progress more than any other on this list for me to get interested.

10. Effinex: A sneaky horse to watch. He is getting better almost every time out. He got some handicap help in his win over Tonalist last out, but at some point in time a win is a win. Probably not a huge player, but one to keep an eye on if he keeps making more strides.

OTHERS OF NOTE:

American Pharoah: Obviously the ONE to watch over the next 3 months rolling into the BC Classic. He'll likely get 2 races heading in after a freshening. After the Haskell, it will be interesting if they take on some older horses in an obviously weakened division.

Dortmund: I know many will want to discard him after his KD and Preakness efforts, but this is still a massive horse that may not have grown into his frame just yet. For a horse that can pound out :12 second furlong splits after splits like nobodies business, he gets little respect. Where does he show up next?

Firing Line: Solid horse. Not sure he can get much better, but he will compete on the front end. Not sure 10 panels is right for him. Maybe the BC Dirt Mile if healthy?

Frosted: He may well be the most interesting of the 3YOs this year with the most upside potential. He has to get better, obviously, but I firmly believe he can. Next out needs to be solid, and he needs to run huge in a race to even be considered for this race.

I have to believe we'll get some horses from across the pond interested again this year to run in the Classic if a "stud" horse or two doesn't come about other than AP.

Thoughts?

I thought that I read Firing Line is out for the year.

Anyway, American Pharoah is obviously the marquee horse.
Like most years, anything that gets hot at the right time can win.

[Psychotic Parakeet]

Put Shared Belief on the out list. He suffered a pelvic fracture in this last race and is at Pegasus Farm in Washington for some R & R until next year.

[Psychotic Parakeet]

I thought that I read Firing Line is out for the year.

He is out for the year. They can't figure out what is wrong with him.

[cj]

Honor Code is probably best around one turn, but the BC Mile is at Keeneland this year (presuming at a mile and a sixteenth.) Not sure where he fits, probably going to be tried at two turns again.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Does Aiden plan on sending anyone over this year? He seems to get a little closer every year and I could easily see him taking the classic one of these years.

He came close in 2008 with Henrythenavigator.

However, that was when Raven's Pass won and completed a foreign Exacta on the SA fake stuff. :mad:

Yeah. We dug that **** up. :D And returned to rightful dirt at SA.

If our older division doesn't get more interesting, I'm sure a couple will take a swing or two from across the pond at a monster pot on a rather new Keeneland dirt surface. Especially a surface that gives closers a solid chance even with a short stretch.

[horses4courses]

He came close in 2008 with Henrythenavigator.

However, that was when Raven's Pass won and completed a foreign Exacta on the SA fake stuff. :mad:

Yeah. We dug that **** up. :D And returned to rightful dirt at SA.

If our older division doesn't get more interesting, I'm sure a couple will take a swing or two from across the pond at a monster pot on a rather new Keeneland dirt surface. Especially a surface that gives closers a solid chance even with a short stretch.

Giant's Causeway came within a neck in 2000.

This year, he has the usual string of fine athletes.
If he figures he has a potential dirt runner, he will ship.

Gleneagles would appear to be his leading candidate right now.
By Galileo out of a Storm Cat mare, he might take to dirt okay.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Giant's Causeway came within a neck in 2000.

This year, he has the usual string of fine athletes.
If he figures he has a potential dirt runner, he will ship.

Gleneagles would appear to be his leading candidate right now.
By Galileo out of a Storm Cat mare, he might take to dirt okay.

The Tiznow/Giant's Causeway Exacta was likely my greatest Exacta Box in my lifetime. I'll never see/feel/have greatness like that again. Ever.

If Lemon Drop Kid got up for 3rd, I may have been able to retire. :cool:

[letswastemoney]

Honor Code's immediate bottom half is made up of two turf sprinters. It is unlikely he would want 10 furlongs, even with A.P. Indy as his sire.

[andtheyreoff]

Tonalist isn't proven at 10 furlongs? All he did at that distance was win the Jockey Club Gold Cup, plus miss by a head in the Suburban.

Just because he has only won one race doesn't mean his 2015 has been a disappointment. He's been running great races every time. No shame in that.

Here's a name not on the list that should be: Coach Inge. He may be a monster.

[horses4courses]

The Tiznow/Giant's Causeway Exacta was likely my greatest Exacta Box in my lifetime. I'll never see/feel/have greatness like that again. Ever.

If Lemon Drop Kid got up for 3rd, I may have been able to retire. :cool:

I tore up a bunch of win futures on GC @ 30-1.
It cost me less than half of the five figures my buddy stood to win, though.

I try not to watch any replays of that race.
If Chris McCarron had been on GC, and not Mick Kinane,
I think you would have cashed your exacta box the other way around. ;)

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Tonalist isn't proven at 10 furlongs? All he did at that distance was win the Jockey Club Gold Cup, plus miss by a head in the Suburban.

Just because he has only won one race doesn't mean his 2015 has been a disappointment. He's been running great races every time. No shame in that.

Here's a name not on the list that should be: Coach Inge. He may be a monster.

Great stuff.

This is what I was looking for.

Coach Inge ran a monster, but on an uncontested lead. No way in Hades he can do that at Keeneland......, right?

[EMD4ME]

Tonalist isn't proven at 10 furlongs? All he did at that distance was win the Jockey Club Gold Cup, plus miss by a head in the Suburban.

Just because he has only won one race doesn't mean his 2015 has been a disappointment. He's been running great races every time. No shame in that.

Here's a name not on the list that should be: Coach Inge. He may be a monster.

If Johnny V stays on Tonalist he will never run his A race. Johnny V single handedly cost Tonalist the Met AND the Suburban with subtly BRUTAL rides.

Terrible distribution of energy in both races.

Rosario back on is what's needed.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

If Johnny V stays on Tonalist he will never run his A race. Johnny V single handedly cost Tonalist the Met AND the Suburban with subtly BRUTAL rides.

Terrible distribution of energy in both races.

Rosario back on is what's needed.

You really believe Tonalist would have beat Honor Code that day with a better ride?

[Robert Fischer]

Yes Honor Code must be considered for the Classic as well at this stage.

Coach Inge is an interesting outsider.

[EMD4ME]

You really believe Tonalist would have beat Honor Code that day with a better ride?

Yes or at the very least it would have been very close.

Why? Because JV used horse trying to get into the race for no reason.

The race ran 22.42 44.92 108.74 133.18

The 2nd quarter was the sizzling part of the race.

Tonalist broke relatively slow, A BLESSING in that race. Was 8 back after 1/8 of a mile, JV used him after 1/8 (only god knows what his brain was thinking) to get into the race and he maintained the 8 length deficit margin after the 1st quarter. In the second quarter JV asked Tonalist even more and Tonalist responded to be about 5 1/2 back after a half mile. Tonalist wasted a 21 4/5 2nd quarter for nothing.

1st Problem is Tonalist was spending energy, maintaining position in the 1st quarter (no reason to do that, no benefit to do that).

Here's the MAJOR PROBLEM. He spent all that energy in the 2nd quarter, gained into a WICKED 2nd quarter......for what? To realize there's 4 across ahead of him and it's INSANE to make a 5-6 wide premature move into that pace (at the 1/2 mile pole) AND then hit the breaks to idle for the next 5/16's while 4 wide????

Once Tonalist did what the scarecrow brain above him asked him to do, JV realized "Dooooh, there's a wall of 4 horses in front of me. Let's check and wait, no let's go around them 5 wide, no let's try and rate, no let's go around them via the grandstand". His run from the 1/2 to the 5/16 was an ADDITIONAL unnecessary waste of energy.

Once they turned for home, Tonalist's starch was gone, the closing kick spent on the preceding 5/8 th's (for nothing).

He still had a burst at the 1/4, nothing like the perfectly ridden winner and he still had a burst at the 1/16 pole (despite HC coming in badly) to earn a clear second.

Again, a brutally bad ride by JV on Tonalist in the MET and the Suburban.

He rides like a 10 LB apprentice out there, not exaggerating one iota.

Honor Code sat back during the fastest part of the race, relaxed, had a bud light, smoked a cigarette and when everyone was fried, he threw himself in at the 1/4 pole and yes he streaked home. Yes, he ran fantastic. Yes, I liked his run.

Not knocking HC just answering the question of 'Do I really think Tonalist would've beat HC that day'.

With Ramon on him, 100%. With Rosario on him 90%. With Juvenile (talent wise) Velazquez 5% (broken clocks are right twice a day too).

[EMD4ME]

I posted this in another thread (Tonalist thread) but it applies here as well.

It was nice to hear (via Richard Migliore) that Johnny V. acknowledged that his ride in the Suburban was brutal. Richie said it was classy and it showed that Johnny knew his ride could have been a whole lot better.

I'm glad to hear that as many times I wonder: Do these guys know just how bad their rides are in some of the premier races of the year?

[Lemon Drop Husker]

:rolleyes:Yes or at the very least it would have been very close.

Why? Because JV used horse trying to get into the race for no reason.

The race ran 22.42 44.92 108.74 133.18

The 2nd quarter was the sizzling part of the race.

Tonalist broke relatively slow, A BLESSING in that race. Was 8 back after 1/8 of a mile, JV used him after 1/8 (only god knows what his brain was thinking) to get into the race and he maintained the 8 length deficit margin after the 1st quarter. In the second quarter JV asked Tonalist even more and Tonalist responded to be about 5 1/2 back after a half mile. Tonalist wasted a 21 4/5 2nd quarter for nothing.

1st Problem is Tonalist was spending energy, maintaining position in the 1st quarter (no reason to do that, no benefit to do that).

Here's the MAJOR PROBLEM. He spent all that energy in the 2nd quarter, gained into a WICKED 2nd quarter......for what? To realize there's 4 across ahead of him and it's INSANE to make a 5-6 wide premature move into that pace (at the 1/2 mile pole) AND then hit the breaks to idle for the next 5/16's while 4 wide????

Once Tonalist did what the scarecrow brain above him asked him to do, JV realized "Dooooh, there's a wall of 4 horses in front of me. Let's check and wait, no let's go around them 5 wide, no let's try and rate, no let's go around them via the grandstand". His run from the 1/2 to the 5/16 was an ADDITIONAL unnecessary waste of energy.

Once they turned for home, Tonalist's starch was gone, the closing kick spent on the preceding 5/8 th's (for nothing).

He still had a burst at the 1/4, nothing like the perfectly ridden winner and he still had a burst at the 1/16 pole (despite HC coming in badly) to earn a clear second.

Again, a brutally bad ride by JV on Tonalist in the MET and the Suburban.

He rides like a 10 LB apprentice out there, not exaggerating one iota.

Honor Code sat back during the fastest part of the race, relaxed, had a bud light, smoked a cigarette and when everyone was fried, he threw himself in at the 1/4 pole and yes he streaked home. Yes, he ran fantastic. Yes, I liked his run.

Not knocking HC just answering the question of 'Do I really think Tonalist would've beat HC that day'.

With Ramon on him, 100%. With Rosario on him 90%. With Juvenile (talent wise) Velazquez 5% (broken clocks are right twice a day too).

You have a vendetta against JV if you think Ramon or Rosario win upon him that day.

Quit reaching.

[menifee]

AP is 5/2 at Wynn futures. Man, I don't like future bets like this, but this really seems like good value. The older male division is in shambles right now.

I know he's been terrible so far this year, but Bayern is your defending champ. If he can ever regain his form and get an easy lead again...

[Lemon Drop Husker]

I posted this in another thread (Tonalist thread) but it applies here as well.

It was nice to hear (via Richard Migliore) that Johnny V. acknowledged that his ride in the Suburban was brutal. Richie said it was classy and it showed that Johnny knew his ride could have been a whole lot better.

I'm glad to hear that as many times I wonder: Do these guys know just how bad their rides are in some of the premier races of the year?

Every jock has bad rides. Something they could've/should've/would've done better.

Hell, they are human afterall. Just like you and me.

Unfortunately for them, they are put under the microscope each and every day for doubters and critics like yourself.

Can we follow you for a month or two to criticize your every move? Sounds fair..., right?

[EMD4ME]

:rolleyes:

You have a vendetta against JV if you think Ramon or Rosario win upon him that day.

Quit reaching.

I have no vendetta against anyone.

I just simply call a bad ride a bad ride. I call a great ride a great ride.

I don't bet jockeys. I incorporate their tendencies into my handicapping but I am far from a jockey guy.

You asked the question, I gave a super detailed crystal clear logical response and all you can say in return is "Quit reaching" because I have a vendetta. :D :D :D

Remind me to never waste more than 5 words with you. No offense.

[EMD4ME]

Every jock has bad rides. Something they could've/should've/would've done better.

Hell, they are human afterall. Just like you and me.

Unfortunately for them, they are put under the microscope each and every day for doubters and critics like yourself.

Can we follow you for a month or two to criticize your every move? Sounds fair..., right?

Yes they do but when many of them have subtly bad rides MORE OFTEN then they have subtly great rides, what would you call the talent level of that jockey?

To answer your last question, I would LOVE that. It would make me a better player.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

I have no vendetta against anyone.

I just simply call a bad ride a bad ride. I call a great ride a great ride.

I don't bet jockeys. I incorporate their tendencies into my handicapping but I am far from a jockey guy.

You asked the question, I gave a super detailed crystal clear logical response and all you can say in return is "Quit reaching" because I have a vendetta. :D :D :D

Remind me to never waste more than 5 words with you. No offense.

Thanks for taking the time.

I feel truly privileged hearing from such a master of all knowing horse racing hierarchy

I wish you all the best in your future endeavors.

[EMD4ME]

Finally, Yes, I expect more from a supposed HOFer who has 20 years plus of experience.

He rides like an apprentice out there. The way people tout these guys, you would think this forum would be plush with amazing comments on how great this ride was, that ride was, this ride was, that ride was etc.

Especially in these high Stakes races.

It seems like a coincidental carousel out there. One day one guy has 1 or 2 good rides and the very next day the same guy is stinking it up.

There's no time to start touting how great a jock is because before you have the time to type and congratulate them, they stink up the next race.

[EMD4ME]

Thanks for taking the time.

I feel truly privileged hearing from such a master of all knowing horse racing hierarchy

I wish you all the best in your future endeavors.


:lol: :lol: :lol: Sarcasm appreciated (and adored).

I don't know why you even asked if I thought he'd beat HC that day. You obviously were not looking for an answer or a debate.

I wish the same to you :)

[TheGarMan]

With the latest news of California Chrome incurring a year-ending (if not career-ending) injury, the potential entrants for the crown jewel of the older horse division in the grand old United States is beginning to look rather bleak.

I'll use Mike Watchmakers recent rankings and add some others for talking points:

1. Shared Belief: Best horse in the country at 9-10 panels is injured after a trip to Charles Town. Hasn't raced since. Likely out for the year.

2. California Chrome: Recent injury. OUT.

3. Honor Code: Will he run 10 panels, or opt for the BC Dirt Mile? With the top two possibly/likely out, he may well be the top contender. Needs more seasoning at 9 - 10 panels before we get too excited about his prospects, but he is an extremely talented horse with serious top end speed.

4. Tonalist: 2015 hasn't been all that great. Sure, he won a G3, but got beat by Effinex and was parked by Honor Code at a mile. His 5th in the BC Classic last year wasn't horrible, but he was never a factor. He has to step up and show he is a major contender at 10 panels before he really becomes of any interest to me.

5. Constitution: Haven't seen him since a G1 victory over Lea in February. While a nice wire to wire win, is he hurt?

6. Lea: As solid as any horse in the division right now. Always runs hard and gives his best. His Stephen Foster loss to Noble Bird can be forgiven after his trip back from Meydan. Still, he just always seems to be a notch below the best of the best. However, if the best of the best aren't here.., where would he stand?

7. Noble Bird: I'm not going to get too excited about a dream trip, dream ride, and dream set up at the absolute right time for NB in the Stephen Foster. Either way, if he stays healthy, he'll be in the gate come Halloween in Lexington. If he isn't 20/1 or more, it is a weak field.

8. Hard Aces: This could be the horse getting better at the right time. His 2015 campaign is looking better and better without the top 2 in the mix. Will be really interesting to see how he rolls into the BC Classic after earning an automatic entry. I love me some Hard Spun lineage, so I'll be watching closely. Would be a crazy story for a 5YO horse that was nothing more than a common everyday allowance horse at the Fair Grounds just a year ago.

9. Hoppertunity: Gotta respect this horse as he always puts forth a solid effort. Unfortunately, he just doesn't have enough to win against the better of his rivals in his division. Even without SB or CC. A solid horse that needs to progress more than any other on this list for me to get interested.

10. Effinex: A sneaky horse to watch. He is getting better almost every time out. He got some handicap help in his win over Tonalist last out, but at some point in time a win is a win. Probably not a huge player, but one to keep an eye on if he keeps making more strides.

OTHERS OF NOTE:

American Pharoah: Obviously the ONE to watch over the next 3 months rolling into the BC Classic. He'll likely get 2 races heading in after a freshening. After the Haskell, it will be interesting if they take on some older horses in an obviously weakened division.

Dortmund: I know many will want to discard him after his KD and Preakness efforts, but this is still a massive horse that may not have grown into his frame just yet. For a horse that can pound out :12 second furlong splits after splits like nobodies business, he gets little respect. Where does he show up next?

Firing Line: Solid horse. Not sure he can get much better, but he will compete on the front end. Not sure 10 panels is right for him. Maybe the BC Dirt Mile if healthy?

Frosted: He may well be the most interesting of the 3YOs this year with the most upside potential. He has to get better, obviously, but I firmly believe he can. Next out needs to be solid, and he needs to run huge in a race to even be considered for this race.

I have to believe we'll get some horses from across the pond interested again this year to run in the Classic if a "stud" horse or two doesn't come about other than AP.

Thoughts?

Hmmmmm, what about the "defending champion"? (Bayern) :)

Probably zero chance that Baffert runs him back here?

[EMD4ME]

Hmmmmm, what about the "defending champion"? (Bayern) :)

Probably zero chance that Baffert runs him back here?

If AP lines up in the Classic, do you think he will run against his stablemate?

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Hmmmmm, what about the "defending champion"? (Bayern) :)

Probably zero chance that Baffert runs him back here?

Defending champ is sadly an afterthought right now.

Where will Bayern show up next?

[Lemon Drop Husker]

:lol: :lol: :lol: Sarcasm appreciated (and adored).

I don't know why you even asked if I thought he'd beat HC that day. You obviously were not looking for an answer or a debate.

I wish the same to you :)

We are all d-bags in our opinions. If you wager on horses, and want to win, you damn well better have a tough and strong opinion.

And obviously, we both have STRONG opinions and thus butt up against another.

Either way. YOU are wrong. :cool:

[EMD4ME]

We are all d-bags in our opinions. If you wager on horses, and want to win, you damn well better have a tough and strong opinion.

And obviously, we both have STRONG opinions and thus butt up against another.

Either way. YOU are wrong. :cool:

That's cool. I can respect that LDH.

But I'm not wrong :p

[biggestal99]

He came close in 2008 with Henrythenavigator.

However, that was when Raven's Pass won and completed a foreign Exacta on the SA fake stuff. :mad:

Yeah. We dug that **** up. :D And returned to rightful dirt at SA.

If our older division doesn't get more interesting, I'm sure a couple will take a swing or two from across the pond at a monster pot on a rather new Keeneland dirt surface. Especially a surface that gives closers a solid chance even with a short stretch.

Zenyatta took two bc races on the fake stuff too, guess that puts her in the same league with the rest of the Fake stuff bc winners. :-)

Allan

[Fager Fan]

Zenyatta took two bc races on the fake stuff too, guess that puts her in the same league with the rest of the Fake stuff bc winners. :-)

Allan

Sort of. Her entire career except for 2 races was on the fake stuff, and she lost one of those two. I'm not diminishing her as I think that loss was her best race, but don't you think she would've lost a few more had she run more on dirt? Do you think she would've won the BC Classic had it been on dirt? She was an exceptional mare but she was no doubt helped by running on synthetics. A deep closer on dirt usually finds at the top level horses running ahead of them who are able to stay on down the stretch.