Money Management

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Since I am at this site I thought I would share with you the latest in my world of handicapping and online contests for fun.

I was asked to replace one of the contestants at the Hana Harness Blog ( http://hanaharnesscontest.blogspot.com/ ) and since I have been a contestant their on even numbered years since 2010 I agreed.

I have been betting since I was a teenager working at the Meadows but I have always had an "All or Nothing" approach to betting. I would kill them or I would (more times than not) get killed. After all it was more of a night out with the guys drinking and betting so I never took this game seriously.

On contests I always refrained from betting on horses (dogs) that I released for public consumption until this year. I started betting my picks at the Hana contest but did not bet anything else, no greyhounds, no flats, etc, just what I picked in the contest.

It actually helped my bankroll. So I started to do daily what I did for contests. I would cap out about 15 to 20 races for the next day (greyhounds as much as harness added to flats). What I now realize that just betting to win is the way to stretch one's bankroll.

I made one deposit to my Bet America account and have my schedule of bets to make. I place all the bets (equal amounts to each horse or dog) of $5 and then do whatever life needs of me. I head back to the computer and TV is its the Meadows just to watch the days results and see if I can find something to bet in the future.

The past seven days was the first time I did not have to dig back into my wallet or a second deposit of money while betting around a average month of handle. I am betting more, losing less and once again this game is fun.

The key is to cap the night before and place the bets early and go on with life. I hope if anyone was in the gambling mode as I was (for all these decades) might now have something different to do and improve their handle and well being.

[DeltaLover]

:ThmbDown: :ThmbDown: :ThmbDown:

Bad advice..

Money management is one of the most fallacious ideas about gambling..

The objective of a gambler should never be to simply extend the duration of his bankroll as much as possible but to place his bets in such a way to maximize his chances for a big score.

Flat five bucks win bets, is not the way to go if you bet for profit, since you will either need to parlay your winning or bet some form of a gimmick in order to have some realistic chances for a score...

[coachv30]

Personally...I think the terms "gambling" and "money management" when it comes to betting are two different approaches. If you consider yourself a "money manager" then you set your limits the way you feel fit. If your goal is low risk-small reward, then you are a money manager. It all depends on WHY the individual plays the game.

The gambler however shoots for the moon with the high risk-high reward approach. More times than not that individual is probably chasing that huge score, not with the tracks $$ but with their own.

Nothing wrong with either approach as long as your financial situation allows it.

My uncle plays the races every day. He will wake at 7 am, handicap every thoroughbred card and make $2 win / $4 place spot play wagers. He usually makes between 10 to 15 wagers /day. He will withdraw any profit made that day and have it directly deposited to his savings.

For example, if he bets 10 races ($60) and gets $94 back, he will withdraw the $34 in profit. He is perfectly content and considers himself by no means a gambler. He has been doing this for over 30 years now; every day for the past 12 years since he's retired.

[DeltaLover]

Personally...I think the terms "gambling" and "money management" when it comes to betting are two different approaches. If you consider yourself a "money manager" then you set your limits the way you feel fit. If your goal is low risk-small reward, then you are a money manager. It all depends on WHY the individual plays the game.

The gambler however shoots for the moon with the high risk-high reward approach. More times than not that individual is probably chasing that huge score, not with the tracks $$ but with their own.

Nothing wrong with either approach as long as your financial situation allows it.

Unless you view betting as a form or recreation, like going to a concert or a football game, low risk flat bets sized to less than the cost of a lunch are not getting you any where, except extending the time needed to eventually get broke.

If you realize that you are so scared of betting to result to this kind of an approach, you basically have three options to choose from:


Re-think your game and try to improve as a handicapper and bettor

Realize that the game is not for you and simply quit

Adopt a money management betting scheme that will satisfy your needs for action while trying to convince yourself that you are betting solely for recreational purposes.

[LottaKash]

:ThmbDown: :ThmbDown: :ThmbDown:

Bad advice..

Money management is one of the most fallacious ideas about gambling..

The objective of a gambler should never be to simply extend the duration of his bankroll as much as possible but to place his bets in such a way to maximize his chances for a big score.

Flat five bucks win bets, is not the way to go if you bet for profit, since you will either need to parlay your winning or bet some form of a gimmick in order to have some realistic chances for a score...

Some of us don't have the luxury of going for that big score, nor do we want or need to... I think it really depends what you want to take from this game of ours..

Steady as she goes is safe as well as rewarding for some of us...It works nicely for a man in my particular station in life, at least...

I believe that there are many ways to play this game, and the danger of a drunken wipeout going for those scores isn't my particular way, is all...

I wouldn't know how to play for a big score nowadays, and I have tried and tried....Still, grinding-away has a way of adding up the score at day's or week's end when done the way I have learned to do it, and is, and can be, very rewarding, and very un-risky in the long haul of "gambling"...

On some days, when my daily bankroll jumps to 20x it's worth, seemingly by accident or surprise, is what I consider a score... :cool:

[barn32]

:ThmbDown: :ThmbDown: :ThmbDown:

Bad advice..

Money management is one of the most fallacious ideas about gambling..

The objective of a gambler should never be to simply extend the duration of his bankroll as much as possible but to place his bets in such a way to maximize his chances for a big score.

Flat five bucks win bets, is not the way to go if you bet for profit, since you will either need to parlay your winning or bet some form of a gimmick in order to have some realistic chances for a score...Bad Advice. :ThmbDown::ThmbDown::ThmbDown:

[DeltaLover]

Bad Advice. :ThmbDown::ThmbDown::ThmbDown:

I suggest you do some reading about non self weighted events and game theory and you might change opinion..

[DeltaLover]

I wouldn't know how to play for a big score nowadays, and I have tried and tried....

There are plenty of options today, way more from the past..

[LottaKash]

There are plenty of options today, way more from the past..

I agree Delta, very...And, I know of what they are...

Still, after 52 years of this, my modest profits are, steady enough, and very low stress for me....Plus, I am a very sore loser and can't bear long runouts of any kind...I like to keep my confidence high at all times, so picking winners and steady earnings are my cup of tea....Sure enough not all of my wagers win, but there are never any long droughts either, with my particular way of going...

So, good BR management, and steady as she goes, is just not "fallacious" to me... Or to put it another way, I haven't been to the well to replenish my water bucket, for a very long time...

[RaceTrackDaddy]

:ThmbDown: :ThmbDown: :ThmbDown:

Bad advice..

Money management is one of the most fallacious ideas about gambling..

The objective of a gambler should never be to simply extend the duration of his bankroll as much as possible but to place his bets in such a way to maximize his chances for a big score.

Flat five bucks win bets, is not the way to go if you bet for profit, since you will either need to parlay your winning or bet some form of a gimmick in order to have some realistic chances for a score...
I have been shooting for the moon for decades and although I had some nice scores they come so few and far between. Bottom line is one has to limit one's exposure (translation: don't bet every race).

There was a time, the last day that the Meadows offered a pick-6 with a pool guarantee of $6,000 or payout after retention of twenty percent to be $4,800. A friend of mine and myself spent 12 bucks and took down half of it. Things like this happen so rarely that I had to create a webpage to commemorate the occasion. If interested, check out http://puppypicksbyz.webatu.com/Files/Pick-6%20Winners.htm That was back on March 10th 2010. I didn't need to see that page to recall that date, it was in my memory as things like this don't happen often. Losing while shooting for the stars is common place. All I can say for my mental well being, I am really enjoying this new low key approach to betting. I looked back at my records since the early seventies, there was only one year that I made a profit over the year. Yes, I beat the retention rates. It took a $7k superfecta to get there but again, it is one of the few times I reached the stars.

In summation, do what ever makes you feel good inside. For me, handicapping and betting are fun again. Have fun in whatever you do.

[DeltaLover]

I agree Delta, very...And, I know of what they are...

Still, after 52 years of this, my modest profits are, steady enough, and very low stress for me....Plus, I am a very sore loser and can't bear long runouts of any kind...I like to keep my confidence high at all times, so picking winners and steady earnings are my cup of tea....Sure enough not all of my wagers win, but there are never any long droughts either, with my particular way of going...

So, good BR management, and steady as she goes, is just not "fallacious" to me... Or to put it another way, I haven't been to the well to replenish my water bucket, for a very long time...


Judging from your posts, I think you have a pretty good understanding of the handicapping part of the game, so I do not see why you cannot make some good hits..

I think that after you have improved your understanding of the handicapping part of the game, you need to work equally hard to improve your betting executions and become capable of realizing favouring situations when high risk propositions might present a good option..

If you do not convince yourself that you can make a score, parlaying two or more opinions (either in the same or multiple races), you will never become capable of raising your game to the next level...

You need to always fight against both conservatism that makes you passive and overconfidence that converts you to a loose cannon, trying to maintain the optimal balance of these dimensions in your gambling profile...

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Judging from your posts, I think you have a pretty good understanding of the handicapping part of the game, so I do not see why you cannot make some good hits..

I think that after you have improved your understanding of the handicapping part of the game, you need to work equally hard to improve your betting executions and become capable of realizing favouring situations when high risk propositions might present a good option..

If you do not convince yourself that you can make a score, parlaying two or more opinions (either in the same or multiple races), you will never become capable of raising your game to the next level...

You need to always fight against both conservatism that makes you passive and overconfidence that converts you to a loose cannon, trying to maintain the optimal balance of these dimensions in your gambling profile...

The problem, I see, is not with handicapping nor betting. It is my emotions when betting. If I start to lose, I tend to press hard. When winning, I think every bet will be a winning bet. This method of betting leaves me with no emotions at all. I can bet what I handicapped and let the chips fall where they may.

A benefit of it is that instead of second guessing my selections or trying to get even, I can be relaxed while watching the races looking for future horses or greyhounds that might be worth a play next out.

I can see that I will eventually get bored with this new way (at least new for me) of wagering. I plan to increase my wagers to $8 per selection then change that over to a $1 Key (price will vary due to size of field). If that pans out, I may just increase the bet or hit the trifecta pools depending upon the size of the track's pools.

Attached are my plays for today. Hit two of the first three to run (I bet more greyhounds than horses during the week, opposite for the weekends). $11.00 and $3.80 for $14.80 ($2 base).

[mrroyboy]

You are making a big mistake criticizing LottaKash. He is the best harness handicapper I have ever met.
Betting is a matter of preference. Many people make money in many ways.

[LottaKash]

Judging from your posts, I think you have a pretty good understanding of the handicapping part of the game, so I do not see why you cannot make some good hits..

I think that after you have improved your understanding of the handicapping part of the game, you need to work equally hard to improve your betting executions and become capable of realizing favouring situations when high risk propositions might present a good option..

If you do not convince yourself that you can make a score, parlaying two or more opinions (either in the same or multiple races), you will never become capable of raising your game to the next level...

You need to always fight against both conservatism that makes you passive and overconfidence that converts you to a loose cannon, trying to maintain the optimal balance of these dimensions in your gambling profile...


Oh but I do make some good hits...Just not life changing Scores...I don't try for that anymore...

Delta, if you notice that I boldened some of your thoughts and suggestions...The reason I did that I guess, is that I think that I have failed to tell you how it really is with me....But what I think I see is, that and those are what you are seeking and continually working on with passion....The holy-grail of the Life Changing score and/or some other loftier goal..

At 70 years, I have found my own way, and it is simply to make some extra kash to help supplement my own fixed income...I think that for some that is really all they need as well..

Everything I own is paid for, my kids did their college, and I have 5 acres of land, and take several nice cruises a year...But, I just don't need a whole lot of the stuff that others may seem to need, maybe even you...

My handicapping game is just the way I like it to be...Could I make more money, hell yeah, and I know it too, a lot more... And, I am trying to say this with as much humility and un vainess as I can, but I have been down the road of total commitment of purpose looking for "pie in the sky" before...

I will add these thoughts tho, and are made because, certainly when it comes down to the nitty gritty, I truly believe that I (at Harness Racing and formerly of T-breds) can match wits and talk shop with any other player that you could think of, or that I know of, without fear of embarrassing myself too much...

Still the fact remains, that I remain just a P&P, guerilla type spot player that wants to earn a little more kash for the niceties of life...That is who I am now, and I consider that to be my "greatness" handicapping success of all...

I keep enough of BR for 20-bets, and that is all I need to make my life easier, and it became that way soon after I decided that I didn't have the temperament and wherewithal to be anything more than I am now, I stopped seeking the "pie in the sky"... Simple wagers and simple wins is me...This can be taught and learned quickly, it is not that hard...Looking for much more is very hard and taxing and vexes the mind too much..

My best advice to the budding young and willing to learn player, would be to take stock of who you are in both temperament and spirit, and build your game on up from the knowledge of that introspection, so the game always remains both a challenge to reaching a goal, whatever that may be, but still, with having fun with continued passion and adrenaline rushes as well while along that learning and earning path, so that it doesn't become an obsession and/or a distraction to missing out on the better things in life during the process...

During the course of my life I have been the Delta Lover's, the CJ's, the Thaskalos' and Raybo's of the world and tried to make my living from it, but I failed at it after 1-1/2 yrs, and it was all mental with physical addictions in conjunction.... But at my stage of life, it is too much
much of burden to try to be that man any longer...

That, in the end, is what I did, but each player must decide how they want their game to be....

I guess that is why I still love this game so much, it pays....I am and remain a grinding K.I.S.S man... :cool:

Just an old guy's thoughts is all...

[ReplayRandall]

The most honest post I've possibly ever read here at PA......Tip o' the cap, LottaKash..... :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[DeltaLover]

Oh but I do make some good hits...Just not life changing Scores...I don't try for that anymore...

Delta, if you notice that I boldened some of your thoughts and suggestions...The reason I did that I guess, is that I think that I have failed to tell you how it really is with me....But what I think I see is, that and those are what you are seeking and continually working on with passion....The holy-grail of the Life Changing score and/or some other loftier goal..

At 70 years, I have found my own way, and it is simply to make some extra kash to help supplement my own fixed income...I think that for some that is really all they need as well..

Everything I own is paid for, my kids did their college, and I have 5 acres of land, and take several nice cruises a year...But, I just don't need a whole lot of the stuff that others may seem to need, maybe even you...

My handicapping game is just the way I like it to be...Could I make more money, hell yeah, and I know it too, a lot more... And, I am trying to say this with as much humility and un vainess as I can, but I have been down the road of total commitment of purpose looking for "pie in the sky" before...

I will add these thoughts tho, and are made because, certainly when it comes down to the nitty gritty, I truly believe that I (at Harness Racing and formerly of T-breds) can match wits and talk shop with any other player that you could think of, or that I know of, without fear of embarrassing myself too much...

Still the fact remains, that I remain just a P&P, guerilla type spot player that wants to earn a little more kash for the niceties of life...That is who I am now, and I consider that to be my "greatness" handicapping success of all...

I keep enough of BR for 20-bets, and that is all I need to make my life easier, and it became that way soon after I decided that I didn't have the temperament and wherewithal to be anything more than I am now, I stopped seeking the "pie in the sky"... Simple wagers and simple wins is me...This can be taught and learned quickly, it is not that hard...Looking for much more is very hard and taxing and vexes the mind too much..

My best advice to the budding young and willing to learn player, would be to take stock of who you are in both temperament and spirit, and build your game on up from the knowledge of that introspection, so the game always remains both a challenge to reaching a goal, whatever that may be, but still, with having fun with continued passion and adrenaline rushes as well while along that learning and earning path, so that it doesn't become an obsession and/or a distraction to missing out on the better things in life during the process...

During the course of my life I have been the Delta Lover's, the CJ's, the Thaskalos' and Raybo's of the world and tried to make my living from it, but I failed at it after 1-1/2 yrs, and it was all mental with physical addictions in conjunction.... But at my stage of life, it is too much
much of burden to try to be that man any longer...

That, in the end, is what I did, but each player must decide how they want their game to be....

I guess that is why I still love this game so much, it pays....I am and remain a grinding K.I.S.S man... :cool:

Just an old guy's thoughts is all...

:ThmbUp:

All I have to say is congrats for your accomplishments and approach..

[LottaKash]

:ThmbUp:

All I have to say is congrats for your accomplishments and approach..

Same here Delta...I read all of your posts, and I always enjoy you sharing your insights and ideas with others..Thx :ThmbUp:

[LottaKash]

The most honest post I've possibly ever read here at PA......Tip o' the cap, LottaKash..... :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

Thx Replay, I am glad to hear that, from someone other than myself... :D

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Really glad I posted this thread. It all comes down to what makes us happy in this life. For me, I am happy as I ever was on a long term basis.

Like today, bet my 16 horses and dogs at five bucks each. Hit seven of them for a small profit in cash but a return of over forty percent in ROI. I got back $117.50 on $80 wagered. I will take that every day of my life.

I too am on a fixed income and really don't have the bankroll I used to do when I was able to work. If I only did something with all that money I made instead of betting, drinking and chasing women. But then I wouldn't have all of my memories of the crazy times.

[coachv30]

Good stuff RTD :ThmbUp:

[LottaKash]

Really glad I posted this thread. It all comes down to what makes us happy in this life. For me, I am happy as I ever was on a long term basis.

.

Bobby, I am glad that you are in this good place these days... :)

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Thanks Coach and Kash. I am starting a new thread. Basically looking for others views on their favorite bets. We had many discussions here on picking out the winner using all kinds of stats. I am looking for angles for the best way to benefit once we have found that elusive horse.

[barn32]

I suggest you do some reading about non self weighted events and game theory and you might change opinion..I've read them.

"If you don't manage your money, you won't have any."

~~Doyle Brunson~~

[thaskalos]

Oh but I do make some good hits...Just not life changing Scores...I don't try for that anymore...

Delta, if you notice that I boldened some of your thoughts and suggestions...The reason I did that I guess, is that I think that I have failed to tell you how it really is with me....But what I think I see is, that and those are what you are seeking and continually working on with passion....The holy-grail of the Life Changing score and/or some other loftier goal..

At 70 years, I have found my own way, and it is simply to make some extra kash to help supplement my own fixed income...I think that for some that is really all they need as well..

Everything I own is paid for, my kids did their college, and I have 5 acres of land, and take several nice cruises a year...But, I just don't need a whole lot of the stuff that others may seem to need, maybe even you...

My handicapping game is just the way I like it to be...Could I make more money, hell yeah, and I know it too, a lot more... And, I am trying to say this with as much humility and un vainess as I can, but I have been down the road of total commitment of purpose looking for "pie in the sky" before...

I will add these thoughts tho, and are made because, certainly when it comes down to the nitty gritty, I truly believe that I (at Harness Racing and formerly of T-breds) can match wits and talk shop with any other player that you could think of, or that I know of, without fear of embarrassing myself too much...

Still the fact remains, that I remain just a P&P, guerilla type spot player that wants to earn a little more kash for the niceties of life...That is who I am now, and I consider that to be my "greatness" handicapping success of all...

I keep enough of BR for 20-bets, and that is all I need to make my life easier, and it became that way soon after I decided that I didn't have the temperament and wherewithal to be anything more than I am now, I stopped seeking the "pie in the sky"... Simple wagers and simple wins is me...This can be taught and learned quickly, it is not that hard...Looking for much more is very hard and taxing and vexes the mind too much..

My best advice to the budding young and willing to learn player, would be to take stock of who you are in both temperament and spirit, and build your game on up from the knowledge of that introspection, so the game always remains both a challenge to reaching a goal, whatever that may be, but still, with having fun with continued passion and adrenaline rushes as well while along that learning and earning path, so that it doesn't become an obsession and/or a distraction to missing out on the better things in life during the process...

During the course of my life I have been the Delta Lover's, the CJ's, the Thaskalos' and Raybo's of the world and tried to make my living from it, but I failed at it after 1-1/2 yrs, and it was all mental with physical addictions in conjunction.... But at my stage of life, it is too much
much of burden to try to be that man any longer...

That, in the end, is what I did, but each player must decide how they want their game to be....

I guess that is why I still love this game so much, it pays....I am and remain a grinding K.I.S.S man... :cool:

Just an old guy's thoughts is all...

Very nice! :ThmbUp:

If I could beat this game steadily by just "keeping it simple"...then I would do exactly as you are doing. Unfortunately...I have painfully found out that the only way I can possibly profit from this game is by going at it full-speed. When I was betting "recreationally", I was always a loser...no matter HOW seriously I thought I was taking the game. Only by giving this game my undivided attention can I hold my own; any lesser an effort and I am toast.

That's why I always discourage the occasional acquaintance who expresses a willingness to follow in my footsteps. Not many can do what I do...nor should they. Most people want a great variety of things in their life...and are unwilling to make the commitment to this game that I have chosen to make. Who can blame them?

[LottaKash]

Very nice! :ThmbUp:

If I could beat this game steadily by just "keeping it simple"...then I would do exactly as you are doing. Unfortunately...I have painfully found out that the only way I can possibly profit from this game is by going at it full-speed. When I was betting "recreationally", I was always a loser...no matter HOW seriously I thought I was taking the game. Only by giving this game my undivided attention can I hold my own; any lesser an effort and I am toast.

That's why I always discourage the occasional acquaintance who expresses a willingness to follow in my footsteps. Not many can do what I do...nor should they. Most people want a great variety of things in their life...and are unwilling to make the commitment to this game that I have chosen to make. Who can blame them?

Thx Thask, your thumb's up is meaningful to me... :ThmbUp:

[RaceTrackDaddy]

After 10 days, still playing with my original deposit on July 1. I have to admit that it is kinda boring.

My mind has been thinking about instead of betting all win wager, how about playing the pick over the most five inside horses/dogs for a dollar? Then my mind goes on to thinking about taking the first two winners of the day and parlaying that money on the rest of the picks evenly, then part of me wants to switch over to Daily Doubles (given that Bonus that my ADW has tomorrow).

I decided to stay the course and take only three shots at hitting a DD on Saturday. My ADW will match whatever your first winning DD wager happened to be that day up to a limit of $200. So tomorrow will be playing half the bankroll on 3 DD's and reduce the amount bet on the 12 dogs/horses listed for tomorrow.

Have to admit that the only horses I will be betting will be in the HANA Contest as the rest will be greyhounds. I am the last one on the list http://hanaharnesscontest.blogspot.com/p/handicapper-selections.html

Time to get back to handicapping tomorrow's early dd.

[thespaah]

:ThmbDown: :ThmbDown: :ThmbDown:

Bad advice..

Money management is one of the most fallacious ideas about gambling..

The objective of a gambler should never be to simply extend the duration of his bankroll as much as possible but to place his bets in such a way to maximize his chances for a big score.

Flat five bucks win bets, is not the way to go if you bet for profit, since you will either need to parlay your winning or bet some form of a gimmick in order to have some realistic chances for a score...
I disagree....Successful wagering is inexorably tied to good money management.
Now there are two basic types of bettors...Gamblers and Players.
Gamblers do what you do. They work for the big score.
Players work to make a profit. No matter the size, a profit is a profit.
Take your pick. It's all about what one wants out of the act of betting.
I manage my bankroll.
I have two hard and fast rules.
One, start with an amount and budget it. If I run out of my bankroll, there is NO double dipping( hitting up the ATM).....
Two, never wager with an unsure approach. If I don't know, I skip the race.
To each his own.....
I don't look for the big score because it is not very likely. To me it's a low percentage shot. If I'm playing hockey and have the puck in the corner with 5 seconds to go, I'm not going to shoot the puck from over there. It's a low percentage shot. A virtual waste. No. I'm going to pass it to the guy in the high slot whose open for a much better scoring opportunity.

[thespaah]

Personally...I think the terms "gambling" and "money management" when it comes to betting are two different approaches. If you consider yourself a "money manager" then you set your limits the way you feel fit. If your goal is low risk-small reward, then you are a money manager. It all depends on WHY the individual plays the game.

The gambler however shoots for the moon with the high risk-high reward approach. More times than not that individual is probably chasing that huge score, not with the tracks $$ but with their own.

Nothing wrong with either approach as long as your financial situation allows it.

My uncle plays the races every day. He will wake at 7 am, handicap every thoroughbred card and make $2 win / $4 place spot play wagers. He usually makes between 10 to 15 wagers /day. He will withdraw any profit made that day and have it directly deposited to his savings.

For example, if he bets 10 races ($60) and gets $94 back, he will withdraw the $34 in profit. He is perfectly content and considers himself by no means a gambler. He has been doing this for over 30 years now; every day for the past 12 years since he's retired.
$34 on a $60 risk.....Now lets see that is a profit of 56%.....I certainly don't see a problem....
Most often my best days are when I start with a bankroll of $150, play oh 10- 15 races, churn about $300 - $500 and have a net profit of $50 to $150....When I do go to the track, I may cut that to $100. Yet I can still churn as much as $300 on a 10 race card. Usually my avg wager total per race is no more than 10-15% of my bankroll. So If I'm doing ok at the beginning of the day, my limit per race gets larger. Hence the higher churn amount.
On bad days. Oh well. When it's gone it's gone. It happens. Everybody who goes fishing sometimes gets skunked.

[LottaKash]

I disagree....Successful wagering is inexorably tied to good money management.
Now there are two basic types of bettors...Gamblers and Players.
Gamblers do what you do. They work for the big score.
Players work to make a profit. No matter the size, a profit is a profit[B
Take your pick. It's all about what one wants out of the act of betting.
I manage my bankroll.


Greed is a strange thing...And, it does strange things to otherwise mindful of their money people...

I look at it this way, most players lose at the end of the year..

But I would stress this aspect to the losing player, you know, the one who is always refilling the bankroll on a steady and ongoing basis thruout the year.. I have been there time and again in years past..

If one could only make a measly $10.00 a nite, playing 5 nites a week, he would earn $50 profit a week or $200 a month with a Plus of $2400 a year......

It is that simple, but greed the strange bedfellow of man, suggests that we shoot for the moon, rather than just get our satellite into orbit and keeping it there, when we gamble...

I go on several cruses a year, thanks in part to my grinding meager profits from horseracing, and my wife and I like to take the Seniors bus to the HardRock (free) in Tampa a few times a year, and occasionally we go to Vegas....And, each time we go, we go strictly to play the slots...Now I know most gamblers would say that the slots are a poor bet, and for the most part I would agree, except for one thing with us, "We are not GREEDY...

We set aside a budgeted daily stipend for each day...

Here'e the thing tho, most people if you asked them when they play the slots, are you ever up at some point thruout the day or nite ?...Most will say yes...That is when you have to take some profits or at least devise a strategy for exiting at some point....Plus, we have a rule, if you double the "stipend for the day", That is It, for the day, and depending on how the other is doing, we go on and do other things, and/or wait for the bus to go home, or see a show or something with the money that is budgeted only for those other such things...

The result is, we rarely have a big losing day, and on more than many an occasion, we go home with more than what we came.with...We don't try for the big scores by putting in and playing the suggested max into the machines, trying to get that "pie in the sky BIG score"...Just keep Grinding away, taking little hits here and there..

Slots are fun and entertaining for us...Mindless yes, but little scores are little adrenalin rushes for us, and that basically, other than greed, is what drives most gamblers in the first place, right ?...We get to play a lot of slots, a lot more often this way...

We are on a more or less fixed income now that both of us are retired, yet I play the horses on a daily basis and we get to play the slots when whenever we feel the need, and we rarely have to sacrifice much to accomplish those things on a continuing yearly basis....The slot/horse money is always still there waiting for another go round..

It pays to Manage your Kash when you gamble...

But then as I said before, it all depends on the "adrenalin rush" that you require...I'd rather win small ball, than lose it all...

[RaceTrackDaddy]

After 10 days, still playing with my original deposit on July 1. I have to admit that it is kinda boring.

My mind has been thinking about instead of betting all win wager, how about playing the pick over the most five inside horses/dogs for a dollar? Then my mind goes on to thinking about taking the first two winners of the day and parlaying that money on the rest of the picks evenly, then part of me wants to switch over to Daily Doubles (given that Bonus that my ADW has tomorrow).

I decided to stay the course and take only three shots at hitting a DD on Saturday. My ADW will match whatever your first winning DD wager happened to be that day up to a limit of $200. So tomorrow will be playing half the bankroll on 3 DD's and reduce the amount bet on the 12 dogs/horses listed for tomorrow.

Have to admit that the only horses I will be betting will be in the HANA Contest as the rest will be greyhounds. I am the last one on the list http://hanaharnesscontest.blogspot.com/p/handicapper-selections.html

Time to get back to handicapping tomorrow's early dd.

DD Bonus Update

I took three shots today trying to capture that elusive $200 DD bonus. Lost all three. Before I went to sleep last night I was actually entertaining the idea of depositing money into the account so that I could play ALL / ALL at both Wheeling and Palm Beach dog tracks as all four of those races were well balanced. As fate would have it, WD DD paid over $400 and PB Paid over $300. Now I have to make up that loss. Oh well, at least that got my heart pumping again.

[DeltaLover]

I disagree....Successful wagering is inexorably tied to good money management.


You can disagree as much as you want of course.

Successful wagering is tied to two things:

Superior handicapping and Fearless betting execution...

Money management, is simply another gambler's fallacy and nothing more; it can be good for recreational bettors who view the game as some kind of a hobbit but there is absolutely no evidence that managing the size of your bets indeed is increasing your bottom line, maybe is extends your life as a bettor but this is all about it.

[mrroyboy]

Betting can be profitable in different ways. Some people are conservative. Some shoot for the moon. There is no right or wrong way. But the shoot for the moon requires a large bankroll and lots of patience.

[traynor]

You can disagree as much as you want of course.

Successful wagering is tied to two things:

Superior handicapping and Fearless betting execution...

Money management, is simply another gambler's fallacy and nothing more; it can be good for recreational bettors who view the game as some kind of a hobbit but there is absolutely no evidence that managing the size of your bets indeed is increasing your bottom line, maybe is extends your life as a bettor but this is all about it.

I think it may be a little quixotic to define risking a bit of one's discretionary income or assets as "fearless." Or perhaps we have different definitions for "fear." You seem to be defining what most would consider little more than a minor annoyance as "fear," and risking that minor annoyance as "fearless" behavior.

[DeltaLover]

I think it may be a little quixotic to define risking a bit of one's discretionary income or assets as "fearless." Or perhaps we have different definitions for "fear." You seem to be defining what most would consider little more than a minor annoyance as "fear," and risking that minor annoyance as "fearless" behavior.

I am using the term fearless as a synonym to self confidence. By this I mean that, to achieve ultimate results you should always be keen to parlay two or more opinions without been reluctant that one of them might be correct but the other one no.

For example, assume that you love a 7-1 shot, if you also have a second opinion about one or two other horses been capable to complete the exacta, you should go with it instead of betting your top choice to win...

The same concept, applies to any other kind of bet, horizontal or vertical, also including manually executed parlays..

[RaceTrackDaddy]

DD Bonus Update

I took three shots today trying to capture that elusive $200 DD bonus. Lost all three. Before I went to sleep last night I was actually entertaining the idea of depositing money into the account so that I could play ALL / ALL at both Wheeling and Palm Beach dog tracks as all four of those races were well balanced. As fate would have it, WD DD paid over $400 and PB Paid over $300. Now I have to make up that loss. Oh well, at least that got my heart pumping again.
My straight bets in greyhounds (hit three of eight) made me a profit with four more harness bets to go at the Big M. So I went and shot for the DD again. This time using one track. Mohawk Early DD where ALL-7 is the cover for a few punches. If 5-7 hits, I just might get even before the bonus.

[traynor]

I am using the term fearless as a synonym to self confidence. By this I mean that, to achieve ultimate results you should always be keen to parlay two or more opinions without been reluctant that one of them might be correct but the other one no.

For example, assume that you love a 7-1 shot, if you also have a second opinion about one or two other horses been capable to complete the exacta, you should go with it instead of betting your top choice to win...

The same concept, applies to any other kind of bet, horizontal or vertical, also including manually executed parlays..

In that case, I agree completely. The error was mine.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

My straight bets in greyhounds (hit three of eight) made me a profit with four more harness bets to go at the Big M. So I went and shot for the DD again. This time using one track. Mohawk Early DD where ALL-7 is the cover for a few punches. If 5-7 hits, I just might get even before the bonus.
All those that were watching the Mohawk feed know how I am feeling tonight. Geez, going second over with live cover in a race with a last half slow than Arsenic has been going then come up empty when shedding cover in the lane could only make one scratch their heads. Yep, I could have been out.

I got mad and went back to going for the throat. All I can say I still have bullets left from my July 1st deposit (about 1/3 of what I started, $130) but bet in 11 days over 1,100 bucks. This saga continues tomorrow at Palm Beach, Wheeling Downs and Ocean Downs (the last is 2yr colt pacing MD Stakes).

[thespaah]

Greed is a strange thing...And, it does strange things to otherwise mindful of their money people...

I look at it this way, most players lose at the end of the year..

But I would stress this aspect to the losing player, you know, the one who is always refilling the bankroll on a steady and ongoing basis thruout the year.. I have been there time and again in years past..

If one could only make a measly $10.00 a nite[/B], playing 5 nites a week, he would earn $50 profit a week or $200 a month with a Plus of $2400 a year......

It is that simple, but greed the strange bedfellow of man, suggests that we shoot for the moon, rather than just get our satellite into orbit and keeping it there, when we gamble...

I go on several cruses a year, thanks in part to my grinding meager profits from horseracing, and my wife and I like to take the Seniors bus to the HardRock (free) in Tampa a few times a year, and occasionally we go to Vegas....And, each time we go, we go strictly to play the slots...Now I know most gamblers would say that the slots are a poor bet, and for the most part I would agree, except for one thing with us, "We are not GREEDY...

We set aside a budgeted daily stipend for each day...

Here'e the thing tho, most people if you asked them when they play the slots, are you ever up at some point thruout the day or nite ?...Most will say yes...That is when you have to take some profits or at least devise a strategy for exiting at some point....Plus, we have a rule, if you double the "stipend for the day", That is It, for the day, and depending on how the other is doing, we go on and do other things, and/or wait for the bus to go home, or see a show or something with the money that is budgeted only for those other such things...

The result is, we rarely have a big losing day, and on more than many an occasion, we go home with more than what we came.with...We don't try for the big scores by putting in and playing the suggested max into the machines, trying to get that "pie in the sky BIG score"...Just keep Grinding away, taking little hits here and there..

Slots are fun and entertaining for us...Mindless yes, but little scores are little adrenalin rushes for us, and that basically, other than greed, is what drives most gamblers in the first place, right ?...We get to play a lot of slots, a lot more often this way...

We are on a more or less fixed income now that both of us are retired, yet I play the horses on a daily basis and we get to play the slots when whenever we feel the need, and we rarely have to sacrifice much to accomplish those things on a continuing yearly basis....The slot/horse money is always still there waiting for another go round..

It pays to Manage your Kash when you gamble...

But then as I said before, it all depends on the "adrenalin rush" that you require...I'd rather win small ball, than lose it all...
Good stuff!

[thespaah]

You can disagree as much as you want of course.

Successful wagering is tied to two things:

Superior handicapping and Fearless betting execution...

Money management, is simply another gambler's fallacy and nothing more; it can be good for recreational bettors who view the game as some kind of a hobbit but there is absolutely no evidence that managing the size of your bets indeed is increasing your bottom line, maybe is extends your life as a bettor but this is all about it.
If you are posting in terms of a professional horse player, I can see your point.
However, I have read several books written by casino gamblers and horseplayers.
One common theme is the goal of turning a profit.
It depends upon the type of bettor one wishes to be.
And just because you have a particular mindset does not mean that another's method is a 'fallacy'....
One does what works for them.....Shooting for the moon or going for the low percentage big score does not work for me.
Quite frankly, If one wants to survive as a bettor forget trying to shoot a house fly with a .22cal rifle. it's much easier with a can of Raid....
"no evidence"...I am the evidence. So is LottaKash..do you think we are making up stories?....

[thespaah]

Betting can be profitable in different ways. Some people are conservative. Some shoot for the moon. There is no right or wrong way. But the shoot for the moon requires a large bankroll and lots of patience.
:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[DeltaLover]

"no evidence"...I am the evidence. So is LottaKash..do you think we are making up stories?....

Obviously not... There is nothing personal in my replies..



And just because you have a particular mindset does not mean that another's method is a 'fallacy'....

I do not agree. There are always concepts that can consist a mindset and can be categorized as fallacies.

This kind of concepts can be processed by logic, using concrete data, simulations and logic and do not rely on metaphysical opinions and beliefs..

If part of your mindset is the existence of angels, since there is no way to prove or reject them based on rational arguments, nobody can refer to your faith as a fallacy (by the way, myself, I believe in angels and in the existence of the spiritual world in general)..

In contrary, if somebody tells you that he has found the "system" to beat a negative expectation game, like craps or roulette, by applying some kind of a money management scheme, like a martingale, daily stop loss or labouchere, you can certainly call his "method" a fallacy, since there are ways to prove so.

[LottaKash]

system[/B]" to beat a negative expectation game, like craps or roulette, .

I get your point about fallacies Delta, but don't you think that you are getting a little off the track about the "money management" theme ?....

[DeltaLover]

I get your point about fallacies Delta, but don't you think that you are getting a little off the track about the "money management" theme ?....

Not really..

MM does not change your expectation and does not improve your chances as a bettor.

People who think so, are victims of a fallacy.

This is the point I am trying to make..

[LottaKash]

Not really..

MM does not change your expectation and does not improve your chances as a bettor.

People who think so, are victims of a fallacy.

This is the point I am trying to make..

I agree with this point totally, but only "if" your handicapping stinks....

For some of us tho, the stink is much less, is all...

Bottom line, if your handicapping stinks, then get better at it, and then "manage your money".... :jump:

[DeltaLover]

Bottom line, if your handicapping stinks, then get better at it, and then "manage your money".... :jump:

Correct..

Since there is no way to add negative numbers in such a way to come up with a positive result, it becomes obvious that betting out of a negative EV handicapping is impossible to show a profit regardless of the sizing scheme you are going to apply..

An obvious question somebody might come up with, is how exactly you can calculate the EV of your bet.

There is not a simple answer to this and I am not even sure that you can ever come up with a valid methodology to prove the expectation of your bets.. Especially if you are shooting for extreme payouts, it is almost impossible to have a sufficiently large sample that might provide a valid indicator about how good or bad you are doing...

A friend of mine who is a heavy loser, has probably lost around $300K during the last 4-5 years on high risk bets, like p5 or p6.

The interesting thing about him though, is that he lost by a nose a monstrous pick 6 ($800K) when Dakota Phone got up in the Breeders Cup. Had he caught this P6, today he would had to show a very profitable ROI and would have been considered a winning bettor while now he is considered the opposite..

Based on this example, I am very sceptic about any kind of an assessment in regards to the profitability of a bettor or not...

[RaceTrackDaddy]

All those that were watching the Mohawk feed know how I am feeling tonight. Geez, going second over with live cover in a race with a last half slow than Arsenic has been going then come up empty when shedding cover in the lane could only make one scratch their heads. Yep, I could have been out.

I got mad and went back to going for the throat. All I can say I still have bullets left from my July 1st deposit (about 1/3 of what I started, $130) but bet in 11 days over 1,100 bucks. This saga continues tomorrow at Palm Beach, Wheeling Downs and Ocean Downs (the last is 2yr colt pacing MD Stakes).
Still alive and wagering on that July 1st deposit. I have to admit I went off course when going after that bonus for DD on Saturday. So I continued with the straight $5 bets today and with what was left over I played some exotics and a greyhound I used to bet at Wheeling that was going for 4 in a row at Southland Park (the Big M of dog racing based on purses). Won at 3/1.

Bottom line, handle is $1,360 and climbing and bankroll back to 10 bucks shy of original. Sure I lost a sawbuck; but in this experiment for me I am able to feel better about winning and losing. I seem to still have that competitive spirit while watching the live video stream but when capping or during the stats I tend to have my mind free.

Guess my goal now is to last until next month with what I got in the account thereby avoiding next month's budgeted gaming money. This can be a good thing.

The best thing I have seen from this thread is the conversations away from my actions. Money management, good or bad, has had a positive effect upon this thread. Thank you all for posting in.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Still alive and wagering on that July 1st deposit. I have to admit I went off course when going after that bonus for DD on Saturday. So I continued with the straight $5 bets today and with what was left over I played some exotics and a greyhound I used to bet at Wheeling that was going for 4 in a row at Southland Park (the Big M of dog racing based on purses). Won at 3/1.

Bottom line, handle is $1,360 and climbing and bankroll back to 10 bucks shy of original. Sure I lost a sawbuck; but in this experiment for me I am able to feel better about winning and losing. I seem to still have that competitive spirit while watching the live video stream but when capping or during the stats I tend to have my mind free.

Guess my goal now is to last until next month with what I got in the account thereby avoiding next month's budgeted gaming money. This can be a good thing.

The best thing I have seen from this thread is the conversations away from my actions. Money management, good or bad, has had a positive effect upon this thread. Thank you all for posting in.
Cost of going cheap

Betting just to win at the beginning of the day was the best thing I did. It almost lasted two weeks but today, this afternoon I liked a dog at Southland Park who might be a price; but with around $300 in the win pool, a $20 win bet would show up on the board.

I was thinking about keying my (# 6) in all four positions on the dime superfecta ticket that cost $3.60 per position. I was cheap being I was betting this about 9 or 10 races prior to the running of the race. Total cost would have been $14.40, less than the $20 wager. What did I do? I went cheap. Below are my wagers and the results that threw me off my game. I went right back to the “go for the throat” as I wanted to get even for my mistake in being cheap.

Results are that I tapped out, as I did not act according to my preset plan of betting just to win. I will reload up tomorrow and return to my conservative win wagering. Greed got me on the weekend going for the 100% bonus on my first DD hit (I hit none betting four tracks). I have to try to stick to my guns as I don’t like the feeling I have now; even though I am in a much better place than I was in June.

If interesting in watching my (# 6) dog run into a blind switch before the turn and get covered up, here is the link: https://youtu.be/mViSxvFxhKE
Attached are the my cheap wagers and the race chart.