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sammy the sage
07-04-2015, 08:58 PM
SPECIAL...wow....

Secondbest
07-04-2015, 10:14 PM
2 seconds faster than the boys.

EMD4ME
07-04-2015, 10:14 PM
SPECIAL...wow....

You can say that again. I'll never forget her opening up 1/9, FOR HER FIRST START, at the SPA in a big field. She was buried with a shovel and had no shot, exploded up to win that day. Followed her ever since. She is COMPLETELY WOW.

Prytanis
07-04-2015, 10:18 PM
That,she is!!
Very slow fractions and she exploded from way back to an easy win.
She is a horse and a half!

Greyfox
07-04-2015, 10:19 PM
Wide around the turn and won for fun.

ultracapper
07-04-2015, 10:27 PM
Ran the final 1/4 in sub 23 seconds. That's almost unbelievable.

raybo
07-05-2015, 01:45 AM
Yeah, I told my wife before the race she'd have to break a leg to lose this one!

I don't bet too many odds on horses, but I did bet that one!! As close to a sure thing as there is!!

PressThePace
07-05-2015, 01:46 AM
She has a push button response at exactly the right times.....one of the more talented turf fillies I've seen in a long time.

Some_One
07-05-2015, 02:18 AM
That,she is!!
Very slow fractions and she exploded from way back to an easy win.
She is a horse and a half!

Didnt they go 5 seconds faster than the boys for the 6f?

Delta Cone
07-05-2015, 02:31 AM
Should she skip the F&M Turf and face the boys in the Breeders Cup Turf? Can she win the Arc (like Treve)?

biggestal99
07-05-2015, 04:36 AM
Should she skip the F&M Turf and face the boys in the Breeders Cup Turf? Can she win the Arc (like Treve)?

Treve vs lady eli in the arc would not be much of a contest.

Treve would murder her. :-)

Lets not get silly, lady eli is good damn good, but you don,t win two arcs by mistake.

Allan

EMD4ME
07-05-2015, 09:05 AM
Treve vs lady eli in the arc would not be much of a contest.

Treve would murder her. :-)

Lets not get silly, lady eli is good damn good, but you don,t win two arcs by mistake.

Allan

Be careful LOL. There are many on here who think Secretariat can't keep up with AP LOL.

tucker6
07-05-2015, 09:31 AM
Be careful LOL. There are many on here who think Secretariat can't keep up with AP LOL.
name one poster. Only one. You caricature yourself.

menifee
07-05-2015, 09:35 AM
While I don't think she should be entered in the arc yet, I would love to see her entered against American older turf males. There are no superstars in that division and it would be great to see if she could beat them.

EMD4ME
07-05-2015, 09:52 AM
name one poster. Only one. You caricature yourself.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123448&highlight=secretariat+american

Letswastemoney


Would you like a second poster?

EMD4ME
07-05-2015, 09:56 AM
name one poster. Only one. You caricature yourself.

Don't confuse PASSION and CONVICTION with someone caricaturing themselves please. I don't do that. The internet is a difficult place to assess one's character, intent and credibility. I post from conviction, passion and a love for this game. I assure you, I am the most honest, loyal, old fashioned 39 year old you'll ever find. Been that way since birth. Since we don't know each other, I don't expect you to know me. Just setting the record straight, that's all.

classhandicapper
07-05-2015, 10:22 AM
She was extremely impressive, but the final time difference between her and the boys also had something to do with the different paces.

cj
07-06-2015, 01:22 PM
She was extremely impressive, but the final time difference between her and the boys also had something to do with the different paces.

...and even more so the run up.

Some_One
07-06-2015, 01:25 PM
...and even more so the run up.

WTF, why the hell did they use two different positions of the gate for the same distance race on the same course? Never even noticed that.

cj
07-06-2015, 01:27 PM
WTF, why the hell did they use two different positions of the gate for the same distance race on the same course? Never even noticed that.

These things remain a mystery to me.

raybo
07-06-2015, 01:28 PM
WTF, why the hell did they use two different positions of the gate for the same distance race on the same course? Never even noticed that.

Not unusual. That's why, if you are using times or velocities and you don't include run-ups in your adjustments/calculations, you are not comparing apples to apples.

Saratoga_Mike
07-06-2015, 01:28 PM
These things remain a mystery to me.

I think it's to preserve the turf - don't want to drag the gate back and forth between the same spot multiple times on the same day.

lamboguy
07-06-2015, 01:35 PM
what i don't understand is trainer Richard Baltis sending a nice horse 3000 miles away to run against her.

cj
07-06-2015, 01:47 PM
I think it's to preserve the turf - don't want to drag the gate back and forth between the same spot multiple times on the same day.

They rarely run the distance, can't see it would make much difference.

I just counted, from the gate to the very beginning of the purple flowers that say "New York":

Belmont Derby 19 lengths of rail
Belmont Oaks 27 lengths of rail (tough angle but this is close)

What are the lengths of rail, 10 feet? If close that is a pretty big difference.

Tom
07-06-2015, 01:50 PM
I think it's to preserve the turf - don't want to drag the gate back and forth between the same spot multiple times on the same day.

Twice, on the second biggest day of the meet?
Leave the freaking gate there and run the two races back to back.

What part of racing don't these pea brains get???

The Olympic 100 meter swim will be contested at 99 meters because Boris peed in the end of the pool. :bang::bang::bang:

They couldn't move it 6 feet?

letswastemoney
07-06-2015, 01:58 PM
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123448&highlight=secretariat+american

Letswastemoney


Would you like a second poster?
I never wrote Secretariat can't keep up with AP. They could be equal though.

letswastemoney
07-06-2015, 02:00 PM
Run her against males. They do so in Europe all the time and no one cares that much. It's not just the big stars like Treve running against males either. A decent number of regular stakes fillies do.

EMD4ME
07-06-2015, 02:06 PM
I never wrote Secretariat can't keep up with AP. They could be equal though.

I cracked a joke about how some people are comparing Sec Vs. AP and worded it in a funny way (That some people think Sec can't keep up with AP). The poster asked for one poster (I guess that equated the 2) and I attached the thread Sec vs. AP. Your comment was one of the first.

Wasn't putting words in your mouth Letswastemoney. Just letting the poster know some people are comparing the 2 as possible equals.

I apologize if it meant any harm. Was just cracking a joke about how AP is beloved on here.

classhandicapper
07-06-2015, 02:32 PM
...and even more so the run up.

I just watched the replays. That was comical. Thanks.

cj
07-06-2015, 02:45 PM
I just watched the replays. That was comical. Thanks.

I don't even know what to say any longer. I'm at a loss as to how tracks could do this for one, and even worse report bullcrap data. I don't even know who is at fault. Is it NYRA? Is it Equibase? The same exact thing just happened on Belmont Stakes day.

Yes, for big races most of us see it and adjust accordingly, but how can anyone possibly believe what is put in the PPs for your average race when the big races aren't right?

Mr Saratoga
07-06-2015, 02:57 PM
I'm sure CCB will find the right spot for her, he has said that she's the best turf filly he ever trained.

classhandicapper
07-06-2015, 03:06 PM
I don't even know what to say any longer. I'm at a loss as to how tracks could do this for one, and even worse report bullcrap data. I don't even know who is at fault. Is it NYRA? Is it Equibase? The same exact thing just happened on Belmont Stakes day.

Yes, for big races most of us see it and adjust accordingly, but how can anyone possibly believe what is put in the PPs for your average race when the big races aren't right?

It's hard enough to make accurate figures without all these unnecessary complications. I don't have the time to check all the run ups, rail settings, wind directions, fat fingers (plus everything else that goes into it) and still have time to handicap. They just don't get it. :bang:

I'm back to classing horses with my own ratings. I just make sure the horse is not a slug on speed figures relative to the competition and leave it at that.

Some_One
07-06-2015, 03:32 PM
They rarely run the distance, can't see it would make much difference.

I just counted, from the gate to the very beginning of the purple flowers that say "New York":

Belmont Derby 19 lengths of rail
Belmont Oaks 27 lengths of rail (tough angle but this is close)

What are the lengths of rail, 10 feet? If close that is a pretty big difference.

Correct, it was 32 ft vs 42 ft on the charts

cj
07-06-2015, 03:38 PM
Correct, it was 32 ft vs 42 ft on the charts

It was 42 for both, so it was changed, but I think it will get changed again per Equibase. It isn't close to a 10 foot difference and they are now aware of the issue.

Tom
07-06-2015, 03:50 PM
OH, I see...one of those "about" distances.
Would be nice if the alleged racing writers at the Post would cover stuff like this. Would be nicer if the head guy at NYRA got involved with serving his customers.

Some_One
07-06-2015, 04:30 PM
It was 42 for both, so it was changed, but I think it will get changed again per Equibase. It isn't close to a 10 foot difference and they are now aware of the issue.

Strange, I was pretty sure it was 32 ft and 42 ft when I checked this morning, just checked and it's now 42 ft for the boys and 84 ft for the girls

cj
07-06-2015, 04:32 PM
Strange, I was pretty sure it was 32 ft and 42 ft when I checked this morning, just checked and it's now 42 ft for the boys and 84 ft for the girls


It probably was this morning. I checked it Saturday and both were listed at 42.

I'm not sure 84 is correct either, but at this point I don't really care any longer. I just do the best I can figure wise and move on. Those rails sections look longer than than 5 feet to me which is what they would be if the difference were 40.

raybo
07-06-2015, 04:50 PM
It probably was this morning. I checked it Saturday and both were listed at 42.

I'm not sure 84 is correct either, but at this point I don't really care any longer. I just do the best I can figure wise and move on. Those rails sections look longer than than 5 feet to me which is what they would be if the difference were 40.

I'm fairly sure the sections are at least 8' long. But, many commercial (non-racing) fencing sections are 10' long.

cj
07-06-2015, 06:01 PM
I'm fairly sure the sections are at least 8' long. But, many commercial (non-racing) fencing sections are 10' long.

I'm guessing 10' because it looks like a running horse fits in between them.

Saratoga_Mike
07-06-2015, 06:13 PM
Twice, on the second biggest day of the meet?
Leave the freaking gate there and run the two races back to back.



What other reason could there be? And it isn't b/c they're dumb.

Saratoga_Mike
07-06-2015, 06:18 PM
"Gulfstream may change the run-ups from race to race, so that the starting gate causes less wear and tear on the turf course, making race-to-race comparisons meaningless, too." Andy Beyer, DRF, March 2014

Tom
07-06-2015, 09:17 PM
What other reason could there be? And it isn't b/c they're dumb.

It is a stupid reason and maybe not dumb, but just don't care. Which is worse. Thje point is, capable people dedicated to their customer find ways to get thing down the right way. Has a race track ever done that? :D

raybo
07-06-2015, 09:21 PM
It is a stupid reason and maybe not dumb, but just don't care. Which is worse. Thje point is, capable people dedicated to their customer find ways to get thing down the right way. Has a race track ever done that? :D

Is it possible that their "customer" is not who they're dedicated to? Or, is their "customer", maybe, someone other than the bettors? :bang:

Really, when was the last time a track thought that the bettors deserved anything other than a fleecing, snide remarks, and swift kicks in the ass (with the parting comment "If you don't like it then get the hell out")?

Tom
07-06-2015, 09:25 PM
I have no doubt that they have no clue who the customer is.
I seriously doubt they know they are running races that people bet on.

College swimming has more technology and awareness than any track in the country. Even when they spend all that money on Takus, they bastardize the output to fit the model they set up in 1885. :lol:

raybo
07-06-2015, 09:30 PM
I have no doubt that they have no clue who the customer is.
I seriously doubt they know they are running races that people bet on.

College swimming has more technology and awareness than any track in the country. Even when they spend all that money on Takus, they bastardize the output to fit the model they set up in 1885. :lol:

That about covers it! :ThmbUp:

cj
07-07-2015, 11:16 AM
Even when they spend all that money on Takus, they bastardize the output to fit the model they set up in 1885. :lol:

Classic.