Sanctuary Cities

[sam4022]

Yet another illegal alien has murdered a US citizen after being deported several times while protected by the proud Sanctuary City of San Francisco. According to police 45 year-old Francisco Sanchez, an undocumented immigrant and multiple felon, who had been deported five (5) times to Mexico, committed the shooting on Wednesday of Kate SteinleI on a city pier in San Francisco, the king of the Sanctuary Cities.



I have several questions in regard to these beacons of freedom. Sanctuary city is a term given to a city that follows certain practices that protect illegal immigration by not allowing municipal funds or resources to be used for the enforcement of federal immigration laws. Police or municipal employees are banned from inquiring about an individual's immigration status.



1. Since federal law is ignored with respect to illegal immigration by not providing municipal support to execute it could the same be done for any city opposed to say, gay marriage or for that matter any federal law?

2. Why are decent Americans ignoring the law to assist politicians in their effort to retain and/or acquire future voters?

3. If we don’t protect our borders why maintain passport requirements? Let’s open up the whole country to everyone.

4. Why do some folks, Republican and Democrat, denigrate the messenger and not the criminal? (Like the good ol’ boys at NASCAR or Macys or former grab the spotlight regardless of issue governors.)

5. Can Federal funds be withheld from Sanctuary Cities for non-enforcement?



I’m an Independent who, in the past, has voted more Democrat than Republican but although it’s a tough choice and I’m sure to be called a racist or some other low-life, I’ll never vote for a party candidate that uses lies, innuendo and name calling as part of their campaigns. If nothing else Trump will force the Republicans to discuss all issues but on the Democratic side will Hillary even respond?



This is for sure NOT my father’s Democratic party.

[Tom]

Not everyone who lives here is an America, despite what their papers say.
San Fran is a disgusting POS city and should be boycotted.

Next time they have an earthquake, let Mexico come help them. They are not entitled to the services of the US, paid for by real American tax dollars.

Since California is not responsible enough to stop it, the whole state should be denied any Federal services at any level.

We do not need 50 or 57 states We should be at least suspend services to any the refuse to act American.

Civil war in reverse - it is time to kick states OUT of the union for being run by traitors. And the local government of SF is without a doubt made up of traitors. Some need to face a firing squad.

[DJofSD]

Neither party is like the party our father's knew.

When was the last time you heard a Republican talk about law and order? Family values? Independence? Freedom? Choice?

[sam4022]

Trump?

[boxcar]

Hate to say this but Trump should make hay out of this tragedy. He's been telling everyone how many criminals are being imported to the U.S. from Mexico. And I did use the right word here -- IMPORTED. The federal government by not enforcing the laws on the books is implicitly importing these people to the U.S. The Feds are giving Mexico, as well as other Hispanic countries, the green light to export all their trash to our country.

[GaryG]

Hate to say this but Trump should make hay out of this tragedy. He's been telling everyone how many criminals are being imported to the U.S. from Mexico. And I did use the right word here -- IMPORTED. The federal government by not enforcing the laws on the books is implicitly importing these people to the U.S. The Feds are giving Mexico, as well as other Hispanic countries, the green light to export all their trash to our country.He doesn't need to. His remarks have been so well publicized that this is patently obvious to all who can read. No use in deporting them if we lack a fortified border. I would prefer widening the Rio Grande and stocking it with piranhas.

[LottaKash]

Neither party is like the party our father's knew.

When was the last time you heard a Republican talk about law and order? Family values? Independence? Freedom? Choice?

We have only one party now, It is the People's Party...

A little red-handbook should be forthcoming ...

[TJDave]

Can Federal funds be withheld from Sanctuary Cities for non-enforcement?

The federal government has adopted the same agenda.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/dhs-scales-back-deportations-aims-to-integrate-illegal-immigrants-into-society/2015/07/02/890960d2-1b56-11e5-93b7-5eddc056ad8a_story.html

The Obama administration has begun a profound shift in its enforcement of the nation’s immigration laws, aiming to hasten the integration of long-term illegal immigrants into society rather than targeting them for deportation, according to documents and federal officials.

In recent months, the Department of Homeland Security has taken steps to ensure that the majority of the United States’ 11.3 million undocumented immigrants can stay in this country, with agents narrowing enforcement efforts to three groups of illegal migrants: convicted criminals, terrorism
threats or those who recently crossed the border.

While public attention has been focused on the court fight over President Obama’s highly publicized executive action on immigration, DHS has with little fanfare been training thousands of immigration agents nationwide to carry out new policies on everyday enforcement.

[Clocker]

5. Can Federal funds be withheld from Sanctuary Cities for non-enforcement?







Certainly not by an administration that uses prosecutorial discretion as its major tool for enacting and implementing policy.

[Tom]

In other words, Obama will allow murderers and rapists to stay here and screw the taxpayers.

I say, let all the foreign rapists and murders be brought the gates of the White house and forcibly allowed to enter this POS's home.

Let YOUR wife and daughters face the scum YOU have allowed to stay here and threaten ours, you worthless traitor.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Hate to say this but Trump should make hay out of this tragedy. He's been telling everyone how many criminals are being imported to the U.S. from Mexico. And I did use the right word here -- IMPORTED. The federal government by not enforcing the laws on the books is implicitly importing these people to the U.S. The Feds are giving Mexico, as well as other Hispanic countries, the green light to export all their trash to our country.

His statement about Mexicans painted with far too broad of a brush and will not help the GOP cause. You don't describe Mexicans as "they're rapists...they're criminals."

Does this mean I support Obama's policies on illegal immigrants? No. Do I support incarnating violent, criminal illegals? Absolutely.

[thaskalos]

Are the "imported Mexican criminals" more inclined to commit a heinous crime in this country than the American-born natives?

[DJofSD]

Are the "imported Mexican criminals" more inclined to commit a heinous crime in this country than the American-born natives?
Looking at the demographics of those in prison, yes.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Looking at the demographics of those in prison, yes.

Please provide some stats

[MONEY]

Are the "imported Mexican criminals" more inclined to commit a heinous crime in this country than the American-born natives?
This question doesn't make sense.
Are you saying that since we already have criminals in our country that it is OK to bring in more criminals from other countries to further victimize our citizens.

[thaskalos]

This question doesn't make sense.
Are you saying that since we already have criminals in our country that it is OK to bring in more criminals from other countries to further victimize our citizens.
I am not suggesting ANY such thing. It's just that, when I see someone declare that "another illegal alien has killed a U.S. citizen", I start wondering if the Mexican illegals are indeed more prone to committing violent crimes than the American natives. If they are not...then I don't see the point of the thread. I am all for strict immigration laws...but why paint the Mexican illegals as contributors to the violence in this country....if the American natives are worse?

[Tom]

but why paint the Mexican illegals as contributors to the violence in this country....if the American natives are worse?


Because we do not need any more third world trash coming here and committing crimes. We have enough to do taking care of our own - let them rape and kill Mexicans.

We might have homegrown criminals, but they are OUR criminals.


Declare war on Mexico - solve the problem.
They have been asking for it since the Alamo.

Seriously, Mexico offers us nothing.
Why waste our time on a stinking POS third rate country?
Land mines - 10 million them - all along the border.
Armed drones, attack dogs, death rays, whatever we can get, test it all out on the border. You step over it, you die. End of story.

[MONEY]

I am not suggesting ANY such thing. It's just that, when I see someone declare that "another illegal alien has killed a U.S. citizen", I start wondering if the Mexican illegals are indeed more prone to committing violent crimes than the American natives. If they are not...then I don't see the point of the thread. I am all for strict immigration laws...but why paint the Mexican illegals as contributors to the violence in this country....if the American natives are worse?
I am not against Mexican that are her illegally, I am against all of the people from any country that are here illegally. I also know that it will be impossible to deport millions of people, but it is well past that we secure all of our borders. I know people that are here illegally and for them, leaving and returning to our country is as easy as buying a bus ticket.

[Robert Fischer]

i'll give credit where it's due - murdering raping criminals does in fact sound scary.

We gotta do something.


But we talk out of both sides of our mouth just like every issue.


Our farms and plantations are full of illegal workers. South and North too.

All the painters and dry wall etc...

All these "crews" of laborers ...

Even our racetracks (i know some of you still follow horse racing)

and it's not just democrats exploiting this. Both parties do.

We're paying all these workers less than market rates. It's part of the business model now. We've incorporated into the business model.

[thaskalos]

I am not against Mexican that are her illegally, I am against all of the people from any country that are here illegally. I also know that it will be impossible to deport millions of people, but it is well past that we secure all of our borders. I know people that are here illegally and for them, leaving and returning to our country is as easy as buying a bus ticket.

"Our country", the citizens say, as if the country belongs to them...when the reality is that OTHERS call the shots...and the citizens' opinion is always held in the lowest regard.

The citizens are against all the illegals, but the truth is that those illegals are even receiving food stamps from "our country"...so their stay here could be made more comfortable. The citizens view the illegals in one light...but the ones who call the shots look at these same illegals, and see something completely different.

[Tom]

The a-hole who is handing out all the freebies is NOT from this country either.

[classhandicapper]

Are the "imported Mexican criminals" more inclined to commit a heinous crime in this country than the American-born natives?

I have not seen any stats on it, and even if they exist, I'm sure the government is lying about them. Intuitively I would say almost certainly "yes".

As I keep saying, to make it economically in America these days you typically need some significant skills or education. The illegals that are coming across our borders are not trained medical professionals, lawyers, high tech workers, accountants etc... They are mostly very low skilled and under educated workers. Most, even if they are working, probably remain poor or are struggling. Many others are probably not working at all.

We know there is a correlation between crime and economic distress.

[Tom]

I have not seen any stats on it, and even if they exist, I'm sure the government is lying about them. Intuitively I would say almost certainly "yes".

If the committed NO crimes, they are here illegally.
The mayor of SF needs to indicted as a co-conspirator in this murder, as well as every member of the city council.

I wonder if he got the gun he used from Eric Holder?

[DJofSD]

http://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/S-F-killing-sparks-national-outrage-likely-6366684.php

The barrage of outraged tweets from GOP presidential candidate Donald Trump decrying the shocking San Francisco slaying of 32-year old Kathryn Steinle signals the start of what may be an intense immigration debate with potential fallout in California, home to the nation’s largest undocumented population.

Social media blazed with anger and frustration at the news that the man arrested in connection with the shooting death at San Francisco’s Pier 14 Wednesday has a rap sheet with seven felonies, was in the U.S. illegally and has been deported to his native Mexico five times — and in April was released from San Francisco Jail despite immigration authorities asking that he be kept in custody.

Particularly galling, many said, was that the release of Francisco Sanchez, 45, followed San Francisco Sheriff’s Department policies ordering the department not to comply with requested immigration holds based solely on allegations that a person is in the country illegally.

I'm sure his mother believes he's a good kid.

[DJofSD]

Even feel good political actions have consequences.

http://www.breitbart.com/california/2015/07/06/murderer-says-he-chose-san-francisco-because-it-is-a-sanctuary-city/

Five-time deportee, seven time convicted felon Juan Francisco Lopez-Sanchez said in a new interview Sunday with a local ABC News affiliate that he came to San Francisco because he knew the sanctuary city would not hand him over to immigration officials.

The politicians should be thrown in jail for aiding and harboring criminals.

[Tom]

We either have laws or we don't.
If we don't then anyone should break any law he or she feels like breaking.

[PaceAdvantage]

His statement about Mexicans painted with far too broad of a brush and will not help the GOP cause. You don't describe Mexicans as "they're rapists...they're criminals."

Does this mean I support Obama's policies on illegal immigrants? No. Do I support incarnating violent, criminal illegals? Absolutely.But it's ok when Obama describes them as GANG BANGERS...right SM?

'Cause Obama is cool and all and is down with the lingo... :rolleyes:

Makes it fun.

[reckless]

http://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/S-F-killing-sparks-national-outrage-likely-6366684.php



I'm sure his mother believes he's a good kid.

So does Jeb! Bush, I bet.

[PaceAdvantage]

I am not suggesting ANY such thing. It's just that, when I see someone declare that "another illegal alien has killed a U.S. citizen", I start wondering if the Mexican illegals are indeed more prone to committing violent crimes than the American natives. If they are not...then I don't see the point of the thread. I am all for strict immigration laws...but why paint the Mexican illegals as contributors to the violence in this country....if the American natives are worse?They're already criminals, since they entered the country illegally. Thus, they are probably more prone to committing further criminal acts...entering the county illegally serves as a "gateway crime."

[reckless]

His statement about Mexicans painted with far too broad of a brush and will not help the GOP cause. You don't describe Mexicans as "they're rapists...they're criminals."

Does this mean I support Obama's policies on illegal immigrants? No. Do I support incarnating violent, criminal illegals? Absolutely.

What is exactly the GOP cause, Mike?

The pro open-borders/amnesty wing of the GOP have totally ignored the murderers, criminals, drug cartels, gang bangers and rapists. These GOP hopefuls never seem to bring this up, do they? How come?

The left wing media and the consultants to these cowardly, out-of-the-mainstream GOP hopefuls like Bush, Christie, Kasich all advise them that they must not alienate these illegals for fear of turning off the moderates and losing the Hispanic vote.

By the way, the Hispanic vote has historically and overwhelmingly have voted for Democrats and won't change simply because some spineless GOP hopeful says they 'like all Mexicans'.

[boxcar]

His statement about Mexicans painted with far too broad of a brush and will not help the GOP cause. You don't describe Mexicans as "they're rapists...they're criminals."

Does this mean I support Obama's policies on illegal immigrants? No. Do I support incarnating violent, criminal illegals? Absolutely.

He doesn't have to "broad brush" facts. And the facts are is that Mexico is all too willing and ready to export their worst citizens because it works to their advantage on more than one level. That's the facts! If Trump were smart, he'd really make governments on both sides of the border to be the really bad guys! The people (both the good, the bad and the ugly Mexicans) are merely pawns.

[boxcar]

Even feel good political actions have consequences.

http://www.breitbart.com/california/2015/07/06/murderer-says-he-chose-san-francisco-because-it-is-a-sanctuary-city/



The politicians should be thrown in jail for aiding and harboring criminals.

What I'm really amazed at is that the lawyers aren't lining up to sue governments on many different levels. For example, San Francisco is an accessory to murder before the fact! How can people blatantly break laws by not enforcing them, have an American citizen killed because of that lack of enforcement and then no lawyer go for the throat is beyond me. Where is the ACLU when you need them? :rolleyes: Was the person killed a white person? I wonder if he had been black if the NAACP would have gone after SF and others?

[Saratoga_Mike]

He doesn't have to "broad brush" facts. And the facts are is that Mexico is all too willing and ready to export their worst citizens because it works to their advantage on more than one level. That's the facts! If Trump were smart, he'd really make governments on both sides of the border to be the really bad guys! The people (both the good, the bad and the ugly Mexicans) are merely pawns.

You don't know what you're talking about on this matter - stick to the religion thread.

[Tom]

What is exactly the GOP cause, Mike?

Jeb! Bush said over the weekend that Trump does not speak for the republican party and his views are not shared by the part.

Good.
I just eliminated 13 candidates.
Jeb! baby, this why you idiots never win.
You need to carry conservatives, not Latinos.

[thaskalos]

They're already criminals, since they entered the country illegally. Thus, they are probably more prone to committing further criminal acts...entering the county illegally serves as a "gateway crime."

If my family and I were starving in Greece, and I couldn't come to this country legally...then I would do whatever I could to bring them here ILLEGALLY...and I wouldn't give a damn if that made me a "criminal". The call to feed one's family is pretty strong...

[reckless]

Jeb! Bush said over the weekend that Trump does not speak for the republican party and his views are not shared by the part.

Good.
I just eliminated 13 candidates.
Jeb! baby, this why you idiots never win.
You need to carry conservatives, not Latinos.

Panderers and clowns such as Bush, Christie and a few others will never win because they won't get the conservative nor the Latino vote!

Go RINOs!

Go moderates!

Go Jeb!

Go Christie!

Go Kasich!

Go to hell!

[Robert Fischer]

If my family and I were starving in Greece, and I couldn't come to this country legally...then I would do whatever I could to bring them here ILLEGALLY...and I wouldn't give a damn if that made me a "criminal". The call to feed one's family is pretty strong...

That's a fair point. :ThmbUp:

Remember that Mexicans also have brown skin. For some reason that is even more threatening than southern Europeans, and a more inviting target.

But, like I said before, we have this below minimum wage, and the servant / crew stuff ingrained into our economy at this point. The same politicians who holler about mexicans and borders are the same politicians who are owned by corporations who have interests into business that has incorporated that labor into it's business plan. It's all a mess, and it's bigger than the paper-or-plastic politics presented to the public.

[reckless]

If my family and I were starving in Greece, and I couldn't come to this country legally...then I would do whatever I could to bring them here ILLEGALLY...and I wouldn't give a damn if that made me a "criminal". The call to feed one's family is pretty strong...

Gus, doesn't the government of Greece take care of their starving citizens? If not, why not?

Doesn't the government of Mexico take care of their starving citizens? If not, why not?

We have starving citizens in the USA too, and we try very hard to feed and take care of them. And we also take care of the illegals too, if you haven't noticed.

But while you wouldn't give a damn being called a criminal, why should US citizens be expected to casually accept all this when these illegals disrespect us, our laws and our country?

Being called racist and xenophobes by illegals -- who are here primarily to work the system -- is getting to be a bit too much, Gus, don't you think?

If not, why not?

[Show Me the Wire]

That's a fair point.

Is it?

[Robert Fischer]

.

Is it?

it becomes a matter of perspective in that case.

Sure, we could say everything is a matter of perspective, and a thug who robs a liquor store to support his drug habit and live fast this weekend is justified in his own crazy perspective somehow,

but, good people feeding a family is pretty universal. We aren't talking murder or robbery, simply relocating.

[thaskalos]

Gus, doesn't the government of Greece take care of their starving citizens? If not, why not?

Doesn't the government of Mexico take care of their starving citizens? If not, why not?

We have starving citizens in the USA too, and we try very hard to feed and take care of them. And we also take care of the illegals too, if you haven't noticed.

But while you wouldn't give a damn being called a criminal, why should US citizens be expected to casually accept all this when these illegals disrespect us, our laws and our country?

Being called racist and xenophobes by illegals -- who are here primarily to work the system -- is getting to be a bit too much, Gus, don't you think?

If not, why not?

I never said that the US citizens should be "expected to casually accept" the illegal immigrants. All I said was that the illegal immigrants are often obligated to break some laws in order to feed their families. The illegal immigrants do what they have to do...and the US government and its citizens are free to do whatever THEY have to do, to rectify the situation.

There are roadblocks put up at carefully selected neighborhoods on Friday nights, whose chief aim is to apprehend unlicensed Latino drivers...who are usually illegal as well. Many of them are found and briefly detained...but, do you suppose that any of them get deported? They pay a fine...and are put right back on the street. So...don't tell me that the fault for the illegal immigrant problem lies with the immigrants.

The illegals that I know don't go around blaming people of racism and xenophobia.They are too busy working multiple jobs to support their families. It's a joke when you guys say that these Mexicans are taking away "American jobs". The typical American wouldn't do what a Mexican does for TWICE the pay. The Mexicans are "working the system"...you say? Don't make me laugh. The system is being manipulated by our own GOVERNMENT...and the Mexican is just a pawn in the game. And you "smart" guys don't even see it.

[Tor Ekman]

Irony was seeing Hispanic landscapers mowing lawns on the 4th of July.

[Tom]

The typical American wouldn't do what a Mexican does for TWICE the pay.

Then they should lose their welfare and food stamps.
They won't take those jobs because we do not force them to.

And you "smart" guys don't even see it.

Of course we do. I call for the same penalty be applied to hiring an illegal as applies to drug dealing - forfeiture of the assets involve. An illegal is found washing dishes, the owner loses the diner. Illegals found working at a factory, the factory and of its assets are seized. And the owner goes to jail.

But that will never happen because we have a worthless POS government filled by worthless POS people.

[Show Me the Wire]

it becomes a matter of perspective in that case.

Sure, we could say everything is a matter of perspective, and a thug who robs a liquor store to support his drug habit and live fast this weekend is justified in his own crazy perspective somehow,

but, good people feeding a family is pretty universal. We aren't talking murder or robbery, simply relocating.


Why bring in "thugs"? Let's stay with the perspective of a noble father who wants to feed his family. I still question if it really is a fair point.

[thaskalos]

Why bring in "thugs"? Let's stay with the perspective of a noble father who wants to feed his family. I still question if it really is a fair point.

What should the noble father with the starving family do, SMTW? Pray to God for assistance, as it says in the bible? If we don't provide for our family's future, will God take care of them...as he does with the birds in the air, and the fish in the sea?

[boxcar]

You don't know what you're talking about on this matter - stick to the religion thread.

Of course, I know what I'm talking about. And I'd be you'd be the first one to bellow out a hearty AMEN!!! to my last post if that Mexican criminal had murdered one of your loved ones. The first thing you'd be thinking is that your son, your daughter, your wife, etc. would still be a alive if the U.S. government enforced its own laws.

[reckless]

I never said that the US citizens should be "expected to casually accept" the illegal immigrants. All I said was that the illegal immigrants are often obligated to break some laws in order to feed their families. The illegal immigrants do what they have to do...and the US government and its citizens are free to do whatever THEY have to do, to rectify the situation.

There are roadblocks put up at carefully selected neighborhoods on Friday nights, whose chief aim is to apprehend unlicensed Latino drivers...who are usually illegal as well. Many of them are found and briefly detained...but, do you suppose that any of them get deported? They pay a fine...and are put right back on the street. So...don't tell me that the fault for the illegal immigrant problem lies with the immigrants.

The illegals that I know don't go around blaming people of racism and xenophobia.They are too busy working multiple jobs to support their families. It's a joke when you guys say that these Mexicans are taking away "American jobs". The typical American wouldn't do what a Mexican does for TWICE the pay. The Mexicans are "working the system"...you say? Don't make me laugh. The system is being manipulated by our own GOVERNMENT...and the Mexican is just a pawn in the game. And you "smart" guys don't even see it.

For one thing I know who the "smart" guy is in this conversation and it isn't you Gussie ol' man. There's nothing more revealing than a know-it-all such as yourself who hates himself, hates this country and hates anyone who differs with him and shows him for what he is. Don't tell me and others what we see or don't see. You are clueless to the reality of things that's happening to this country because of idiots and enablers such as yourself.

Illegals do jobs that American citizens won't do? Like what? Rape, peddle drugs, kill state police in Jersey City? Kill nuns when driving while drunk in Pennsylvania? Murder children in sanctuary cities like San Francisco? Game the system throughout the country? Yes, you're right because American citizens don't do jobs like that.

So far, from what I've seen and heard and read that's all that is out there. Yes, the headlines don't tell the whole story but it says enough for the smart people to know what the story really is. I know you probably don't see all this when you're losing at the track or hanging out playing poker, knocking this country, but it is out here.

The they pick lettuce for us b-shat argument is a canard. A few years back one of the meat packing manufacturers was raided by ICE and dozens of illegals were arrested and deported. The next day, a few hundred American citizens applied for those same jobs. Don't give me this b-shat about Americans won't do the work. Maybe, arrogant, lazy gamblers of a certain nationality and advanced age might not want to do the work...

Yes, the US government --which conservatives are fighting, if you haven't notice between downing shots of ouzo-- is at fault because they are bought and paid for by the Fortune 100 companies that want an unskilled, uneducated, ignorant labor pool to make cheap products for pennies to be purchased by the same illegals at dollar stores and 50 cent off dumps.

[thaskalos]

For one thing I know who the "smart" guy is in this conversation and it isn't you Gussie ol' man. There's nothing more revealing than a know-it-all such as yourself who hates himself, hates this country and hates anyone who differs with him and shows him for what he is. Don't tell me and others what we see or don't see. You are clueless to the reality of things that's happening to this country because of idiots and enablers such as yourself.

Illegals do jobs that American citizens won't do? Like what? Rape, peddle drugs, kill state police in Jersey City? Kill nuns when driving while drunk in Pennsylvania? Murder children in sanctuary cities like San Francisco? Game the system throughout the country? Yes, you're right because American citizens don't do jobs like that.

So far, from what I've seen and heard and read that's all that is out there. Yes, the headlines don't tell the whole story but it says enough for the smart people to know what the story really is. I know you probably don't see all this when you're losing at the track or hanging out playing poker, knocking this country, but it is out here.

The they pick lettuce for us b-shat argument is a canard. A few years back one of the meat packing manufacturers was raided by ICE and dozens of illegals were arrested and deported. The next day, a few hundred American citizens applied for those same jobs. Don't give me this b-shat about Americans won't do the work. Maybe, arrogant, lazy gamblers of a certain nationality and advanced age might not want to do the work...

Yes, the US government --which conservatives are fighting, if you haven't notice between downing shots of ouzo-- is at fault because they are bought and paid for by the Fortune 100 companies that want an unskilled, uneducated, ignorant labor pool to make cheap products for pennies to be purchased by the same illegals at dollar stores and 50 cent off dumps.

Is this a reference to me? I may be arrogant...but I am far from lazy, friend.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Of course, I know what I'm talking about. And I'd be you'd be the first one to bellow out a hearty AMEN!!! to my last post if that Mexican criminal had murdered one of your loved ones. The first thing you'd be thinking is that your son, your daughter, your wife, etc. would still be a alive if the U.S. government enforced its own laws.

Not my point at all - you made a claim about Mexico actively exporting criminals.

I suspect my view on border enforcement is the same as yours: walls/fences work when actively patrolled. Build walls/fences. Actively patrol border fences and walls. Problem solved.

[horses4courses]

For one thing I know who the "smart" guy is in this conversation and it isn't you Gussie ol' man. There's nothing more revealing than a know-it-all such as yourself who hates himself, hates this country and hates anyone who differs with him and shows him for what he is. Don't tell me and others what we see or don't see. You are clueless to the reality of things that's happening to this country because of idiots and enablers such as yourself.

Illegals do jobs that American citizens won't do? Like what? Rape, peddle drugs, kill state police in Jersey City? Kill nuns when driving while drunk in Pennsylvania? Murder children in sanctuary cities like San Francisco? Game the system throughout the country? Yes, you're right because American citizens don't do jobs like that.

So far, from what I've seen and heard and read that's all that is out there. Yes, the headlines don't tell the whole story but it says enough for the smart people to know what the story really is. I know you probably don't see all this when you're losing at the track or hanging out playing poker, knocking this country, but it is out here.

The they pick lettuce for us b-shat argument is a canard. A few years back one of the meat packing manufacturers was raided by ICE and dozens of illegals were arrested and deported. The next day, a few hundred American citizens applied for those same jobs. Don't give me this b-shat about Americans won't do the work. Maybe, arrogant, lazy gamblers of a certain nationality and advanced age might not want to do the work...

Yes, the US government --which conservatives are fighting, if you haven't notice between downing shots of ouzo-- is at fault because they are bought and paid for by the Fortune 100 companies that want an unskilled, uneducated, ignorant labor pool to make cheap products for pennies to be purchased by the same illegals at dollar stores and 50 cent off dumps.

What a nasty little piece of work you are.

[thaskalos]

What a nasty little piece of work you are.

Don't worry H4C. He used to be a newspaperman...so, I make allowances.

[horses4courses]

Don't worry H4C. He used to be a newspaperman...so, I make allowances.

Oh, I'm not the slightest bit worried.
Just gets my goat, though.

[thaskalos]

Illegals do jobs that American citizens won't do? Like what? Rape, peddle drugs, kill state police in Jersey City? Kill nuns when driving while drunk in Pennsylvania? Murder children in sanctuary cities like San Francisco? Game the system throughout the country? Yes, you're right because American citizens don't do jobs like that.



When you say that American citizens don't do things like "raping, drug-peddling, cop-killing, drunk-driving, child-killing, and system-gaming"...are you relying on your knowledge gained during your many years as a newspaperman? :rolleyes:

[thaskalos]

Oh, I'm not the slightest bit worried.
Just gets my goat, though.

One thing troubles me, though. Reckless called me "old" TWICE in his post here. Does anybody know how old HE is?

[AndyC]

One thing troubles me, though. Reckless called me "old" TWICE in his post here. Does anybody know how old HE is?

By virtue of the fact that he is posting on a horse racing forum, doesn't that make him north of 50 by default?

[thaskalos]

By virtue of the fact that he is posting on a horse racing forum, doesn't that make him north of 50 by default?
You would think...

[johnhannibalsmith]

What a nasty little piece of work you are.

Never been on the backside of a racetrack either apparently to exude such a confident pile of poo. They have to put ads in the paper offering employment as a condition of the H2B worker program. Every go round a handful of wide eyed gringos show up. Then they find out the hours, pay, conditions, and basically, the actual job. Most have the good sense to just leave and say they tried rather than to delude themselves into trying.

[Show Me the Wire]

What should the noble father with the starving family do, SMTW? Pray to God for assistance, as it says in the bible? If we don't provide for our family's future, will God take care of them...as he does with the birds in the air, and the fish in the sea?

Not that your response deserves an answer, but here is an answer not relying on theology, using Mexico as an example.

Let's see, learn some skills employers want, relocate in his own country where there is employment opportunities, move to another country that wants immigrants with skills, lots of options.

For example, Mexico has farms which produce most of the produce sold in U.S. stores. I don't believe U.S. citizens sneak across the border to pick fruit and vegetables in Mexico, Mexico has manufacturing, large hotel industry in need of landscaping, restaurants that need dishwashers. Whatever job the noble father can perform, in the U.S., to feed his family, is also in Mexico, without violating U.S. laws. With the big exception of taxpayer funded financial social safety nets. These taxpayer funded assistance programs are meant to be safety nets, a safety net can only hold a occupancy limit, before it fails and becomes useless.

On the other hand what is acceptable illegal activity to feed his family? Is liberating food from large grocery chain stores okay, but not family owned grocery stores? How about appropriating some items through illegally entering a premise?

[thaskalos]

Not that your response deserves an answer, but here is an answer not relying on theology, using Mexico as an example.

Let's see, learn some skills employers want, relocate in his own country where there is employment opportunities, move to another country that wants immigrants with skills, lots of options.

For example, Mexico has farms which produce most of the produce sold in U.S. stores. I don't believe U.S. citizens sneak across the border to pick fruit and vegetables in Mexico, Mexico has manufacturing, large hotel industry in need of landscaping, restaurants that need dishwashers. Whatever job the noble father can perform, in the U.S., to feed his family, is also in Mexico, without violating U.S. laws. With the big exception of taxpayer funded financial social safety nets. These taxpayer funded assistance programs are meant to be safety nets, a safety net can only hold a occupancy limit, before it fails and becomes useless.

On the other hand what is acceptable illegal activity to feed his family? Is liberating food from large grocery chain stores okay, but not family owned grocery stores? How about appropriating some items through illegally entering a premise?

The word "acceptable" is YOUR word...not mine. I never asked you to "accept" the illegal immigrants; I was just explaining why a lot of them are here. They want to feed their families NOW...not YEARS from now, when they have acquired additional marketable employment skills.

I know that it's a difficult concept for a lot of Americans to grasp, but there is a lot of REAL poverty out there in the world...where people are REALLY looking for work...but can't find any. And, unreasonable though it may seem to you, breaking the law in order to feed their families is what a lot of otherwise-decent parents in poor or war-torn countries have been forced to do.

They KNOW that they are breaking the law...and they live in fear. They come here because they feel that they have no other choice. This country here has CHOICES, though...and we have ways to deal with this illegal immigrant problem. Why these methods are not EMPLOYED...is the real question that you should be asking.

[Show Me the Wire]

The word "acceptable" is YOUR word...not mine. I never asked you to "accept" the illegal immigrants; I was just explaining why a lot of them are here. They want to support their families NOW...not YEARS from now, when they have acquired additional marketable employment skills.

I know that it's a difficult concept for a lot of Americans to grasp, but there is a lot of REAL poverty out there in the world...where people are REALLY looking for work...but can't find any. And, unreasonable though it may seem to you, breaking the law in order to feed their families is what a lot of otherwise-decent parents in poor or war-torn countries have been forced to do.

They KNOW that they are breaking the law...and they live in fear. They come here because they feel that they have no other choice. This country here has CHOICES, though...and we have ways to deal with this illegal immigrant problem. Why these methods are not EMPLOYED...is the real question that you should be asking.

I see you did not address my points, but raised another argument. Agreed there is a lot of poverty in the world and you do what you have to do to survive in a war. Also, what illegal activity, people do to survive, do in their own countries is not germane to illegal entry into a foreign country.

What I questioned is the nobility of the motive, for illegal entry into another sovereign country, as being the fair point. So yes acceptable is very relevant. What illegal behavior is acceptable in relation to the "purity" of the motive is the issue.

Now let's touch upon the resulting illegal entry into the U.S. and the potential harm to the family. As you pointed out, there are checkpoints set up to catch illegal immigrants. How does the starving children cope if the father is caught and deported?

I am not sure the motive is a fair point in all situations for illegal entry into a country.

[boxcar]

Not my point at all - you made a claim about Mexico actively exporting criminals.

I suspect my view on border enforcement is the same as yours: walls/fences work when actively patrolled. Build walls/fences. Actively patrol border fences and walls. Problem solved.

Of course, Mexico exports as many unskilled people as it can. It works to the government's advantage two ways. First, many of those unskilled are undesirables of all stripes. Who wouldn't want to get rid of as many lowlifes as possible who are not contributing anything to their country? Secondly, the honest, unskilled people who actually come here to work send a great deal of their earnings to their families left behind. This, too, is a boon to the Mexican government, as it relieves their welfare roles. Thirdly, then there is no way of telling how much the corrupt government thugs skim off the top from the poor Mexican families receiving that kind of assistance from their loved ones stateside. So, these are just a few of the perks to exporting as many unskilled people as they can to our side of the border. Would you care to hear about the government perks on our side of the border?

[thaskalos]

I see you did not address my points, but raised another argument. Agreed there is a lot of poverty in the world and you do what you have to do to survive in a war. Also, what illegal activity, people do to survive, do in their own countries is not germane to illegal entry into a foreign country.

What I questioned is the nobility of the motive, for illegal entry into another sovereign country, as being the fair point. So yes acceptable is very relevant. What illegal behavior is acceptable in relation to the "purity" of the motive is the issue.

Now let's touch upon the resulting illegal entry into the U.S. and the potential harm to the family. As you pointed out, there are checkpoints set up to catch illegal immigrants. How does the starving children cope if the father is caught and deported?

I am not sure the motive is a fair point in all situations for illegal entry into a country.

There is a point, beyond which people start feeling intense pressure to do something...regardless of how dangerous that "something" may be. When a parent sees his child going hungry...then, something inside him/her snaps...the law-book goes out the window...and the parent feels the intense need to do something drastic, to get this child the food that the child needs. This feeling is UNIVERSAL...IMO.

I ran a grocery store for many years...and dealing with shoplifters was an occupational hazard. Sometimes...I would encounter a shoplifter with a bag containing a dozen eggs, some salami, American cheese...and a couple of kids fruit-juice drinks. I would look at the pained expression on the shoplifter's face...and not one time did I get the feeling that I was eyeing a "thief". I would give them the stuff...and tell them to just ask me for the stuff the next time they needed something, and not to resort to stealing. To show me the integrity that they had...they would never come to my place again, out of embarrassment.

Not all the "law-breakers" are "criminals"...

[Show Me the Wire]

There is a point, beyond which people start feeling intense pressure to do something...regardless of how dangerous that "something" may be. When a parent sees his child going hungry...then, something inside him/her snaps...the law-book goes out the window...and the parent feels the need to do something drastic, to get this child the food that the child needs. This feeling is UNIVERSAL...IMO.

I ran a grocery store for many years...and shoplifting was an occupational hazard. Occasionally...I would encounter a shoplifter with a bag containing a dozen eggs, some salami, American cheese...and a couple of kids fruit-juice drinks. I would looked at the pained expression on the shoplifter's face...and not one time did I get the feeling that I was eyeing a "thief". I would give them the stuff...and tell them to just ask me for the stuff the next time they needed something, and not to resort to stealing. To show me the integrity that they had...they would never come to my place again, out of embarrassment.

All the law-breakers are not "criminals"...

Are we talking past each other? I never said all lawbreakers are morally criminals. Legally they are, but that is another topic. Also, I believe I stated; you do what you have to do to survive in a war zone.

All I said is other options can and do exist, besides illegal entry into a sovereign foreign country, especially for the biggest group of illegal immigrants, who are from Mexico. The nobility or purity of the motive is not always a fair point.

I am pleased to know you gave desperate people food to feed their families or themselves. Knowing you from this forum, I am not surprised. I hope you know I would and do the same.

[thaskalos]

Are we talking past each other? I never said all lawbreakers are morally criminals. Legally they are, but that is another topic. Also, I believe I stated; you do what you have to do to survive in a war zone.

All I said is other options can and do exist, besides illegal entry into a sovereign foreign country, especially for the biggest group of illegal immigrants, who are from Mexico. The nobility or purity of the motive is not always a fair point.

I am pleased to know you gave desperate people food to feed their families or themselves. Knowing you from this forum, I am not surprised. I hope you know I would and do the same.

I know what you are saying...but I can't agree. If I am in Greece, and I can't find work and my family is going hungry...then only two options avail themselves to me. Either I stay in Greece and become a thief in order to survive...or I move to another country that I consider more "prosperous" than my own. And if I can't go there legally...then I am going there ILLEGALLY.

The urge to survive is man's basic instinct...and no "law" can stand in the way of that. You can catch the "offender"...and punish him in any way you deem necessary. But you can't really blame him.

[Tom]

When you say that American citizens don't do things like "raping, drug-peddling, cop-killing, drunk-driving, child-killing, and system-gaming"...are you relying on your knowledge gained during your many years as a newspaperman? :rolleyes:

Of course we have home-grown democrats here!

[TJDave]

I know what you are saying...but I can't agree. If I am in Greece, and I can't find work and my family is going hungry...then only two options avail themselves to me. Either I stay in Greece and become a thief in order to survive...or I move to another country that I consider more "prosperous" than my own. And if I can't go there legally...then I am going there ILLEGALLY.

The urge to survive is man's basic instinct...and no "law" can stand in the way of that. You can catch the "offender"...and punish him in any way you deem necessary. But you can't really blame him.

Well said. The will to survive is strong. Thinking that law will discourage the desperate is foolish. There are two options for those up against it. Press on...or give up.

[Tom]

Well said. The will to survive is strong. Thinking that law will discourage the desperate is foolish. There are two options for those up against it. Press on...or give up.

So you are too fond of civilization I take it?
This is why we have guns.

[Greyfox]

Not too many were able to get out of East Berlin when the wall was up.

[lamboguy]

in my life i have watched this great country grow for 100 million people to over 300 million today. what i can see is one big mess here. its completely mixed up and out of control.
SANCTUARY CITY my ass.

maybe my over simplified answer would be to revert more power back to the states. its really to big a non functioning federal government these days that is completely out of control. let them do what they are supposed to do, protect our borders and take care of our roads. unfortunately they aren't doing to well at either these days.

[Robert Goren]

in my life i have watched this great country grow for 100 million people to over 300 million today. what i can see is one big mess here. its completely mixed up and out of control.
SANCTUARY CITY my ass.

maybe my over simplified answer would be to revert more power back to the states. its really to big a non functioning federal government these days that is completely out of control. let them do what they are supposed to do, protect our borders and take care of our roads. unfortunately they aren't doing to well at either these days.I watch a lot of CNBC crime shows. I have yet to see a show where the state authorities ever caught a Ponzi Scheme artists. The only things state and local authorities seem to be able to is catch some violent criminals and write speeding tickets. They seem to get out of their depth pretty fast if the criminal has any sort sophistication. Even in the case of violent criminals they have rely on the feds for things like fingerprints.

[DJofSD]

http://www.breitbart.com/california/2015/07/07/sf-sheriff-defends-releasing-killer-calls-trump-opportunist/

Basically, the sheriff did nothing wrong -- it's all ICE's fault.

[boxcar]

http://www.breitbart.com/california/2015/07/07/sf-sheriff-defends-releasing-killer-calls-trump-opportunist/

Basically, the sheriff did nothing wrong -- it's all ICE's fault.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! How many opportunists have we seen play the race card any time a black person is killed by a white person? Or how many times have we seen bleeding heart opportunists cry crocodile tears and whip out their gun control card anytime someone is shot by a civilian?

Of course, it's all "ICE's fault". ICE forced the mayor of SF to become a safe harbor for all kinds of illegal aliens. :rolleyes:

But I don't suppose any time soon we'll hear Obama declare that the Mexican thug who murdered the U.S. citizen murdered one of his own. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[DJofSD]

Ya, if he had a son, he'd be just like the thug.

[reckless]

By virtue of the fact that he is posting on a horse racing forum, doesn't that make him north of 50 by default?

It does... while age is a state of mind... I am north of 50, slightly.

[Tom]

White House now blaming repubicans.

As expected.
Always blame someone else for their failures.
Obama is partly responsible for this murder.

[Clocker]

http://www.breitbart.com/california/2015/07/07/sf-sheriff-defends-releasing-killer-calls-trump-opportunist/

Basically, the sheriff did nothing wrong -- it's all ICE's fault.

The White House says it is the fault of the Republicans in Congress.

White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest is blaming Republicans after an illegal immigrant who was reportedly deported five times was charged with murder in California.

When asked by reporters about critics of President Obama’s immigration enforcement policies, Earnest insisted that it was actually Republicans who are fault for voting against the Gang Of Eight bill last year, pointing out that it contained funding to increase border security.

“The fact is that the president has done everything within his power to make sure that we are focusing our law enforcement resources on criminals and those who pose a threat to public safety and it’s because of the political efforts of Republicans that we have not been able to make the kind of investment that we’d like to make in securing our border and keeping our community safe,” Earnest said.



http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/07/06/white-house-blames-republicans-for-deported-san-francisco-killer/

[Robert Fischer]

We should continue to have Sanctuary Cities for now.

An incident that gets played out on the news does not necessarily make something good or bad.

I will have to study more about illegal immigration, and I will have to study more about these sanctuary cities before I can offer an educated answer.

[Clocker]

We should continue to have Sanctuary Cities for now.

An incident that gets played out on the news does not necessarily make something good or bad.

I will have to study more about illegal immigration, and I will have to study more about these sanctuary cities before I can offer an educated answer.

So without being able to give a reason, you support a policy of local governments interfering with the federal government enforcement of criminal laws?

[Robert Fischer]

So without being able to give a reason, you support a policy of local governments interfering with the federal government enforcement of criminal laws?

I gave a reason.

For now I believe we should be conservative, and actually learn more before initiating change.

I made a mistake when I first read this thread, Clocker.
I took the publicized incident as an definitive representation of the full issue. It seems like there are these "poster" incidents all over the political spectrum where one incident is publicized and somehow we are supposed to be outraged and even riot until the laws are changed in large part to that publicized incident.

[Tom]

Wow.
What a sad nation have become.

[Tom]

For now I believe we should be conservative, and actually learn more before initiating change.

Wasn't the decision to obstruct federal justice a change that should have been studied first?

[Valuist]

Was in the SF area this past weekend, and even the extreme liberal media, at least on the TV side, was saying there's a problem that needed fixing. Anyone with any brain matter at all should be able to see that. Zero justification for the sanctuary cities.

[AndyC]

We should continue to have Sanctuary Cities for now.

An incident that gets played out on the news does not necessarily make something good or bad.

I will have to study more about illegal immigration, and I will have to study more about these sanctuary cities before I can offer an educated answer.


I think the idea of sanctuary cities should be expanded to include people who disagree with any current US law. A sanctuary city from Obamacare might be a good start. The possibilities would be endless.

[Clocker]

A sanctuary city from Obamacare might be a good start.

The over-crowding in such a city would be intolerable.

[Clocker]

For now I believe we should be conservative, and actually learn more before initiating change.

I have not heard even a theoretical reason that there is anything more we need to learn. The cities are interfering with the enforcement of immigration laws. Those laws are the constitutional responsibility of the federal government, and there doesn't seem to be any challenge to the validity or fairness of those laws. Legally and logically, the burden of proof to justify that interference is on the local government.

The same cities that are ignoring federal law would arrest and jail its citizens for failure to obey the legal orders of its own law enforcement officers.

[PaceAdvantage]

For one thing I know who the "smart" guy is in this conversation and it isn't you Gussie ol' man. There's nothing more revealing than a know-it-all such as yourself who hates himself, hates this country and hates anyone who differs with him and shows him for what he is. Don't tell me and others what we see or don't see. You are clueless to the reality of things that's happening to this country because of idiots and enablers such as yourself.

Illegals do jobs that American citizens won't do? Like what? Rape, peddle drugs, kill state police in Jersey City? Kill nuns when driving while drunk in Pennsylvania? Murder children in sanctuary cities like San Francisco? Game the system throughout the country? Yes, you're right because American citizens don't do jobs like that.

So far, from what I've seen and heard and read that's all that is out there. Yes, the headlines don't tell the whole story but it says enough for the smart people to know what the story really is. I know you probably don't see all this when you're losing at the track or hanging out playing poker, knocking this country, but it is out here.

The they pick lettuce for us b-shat argument is a canard. A few years back one of the meat packing manufacturers was raided by ICE and dozens of illegals were arrested and deported. The next day, a few hundred American citizens applied for those same jobs. Don't give me this b-shat about Americans won't do the work. Maybe, arrogant, lazy gamblers of a certain nationality and advanced age might not want to do the work...

Yes, the US government --which conservatives are fighting, if you haven't notice between downing shots of ouzo-- is at fault because they are bought and paid for by the Fortune 100 companies that want an unskilled, uneducated, ignorant labor pool to make cheap products for pennies to be purchased by the same illegals at dollar stores and 50 cent off dumps.Getting all personal with thask like this is way out of line. I would have deleted this had I come across it before people started responding to it. Stuff like this doesn't belong on this website.

Consider yourself well warned.

[DJofSD]

Wow.
What a sad nation have become.
And, where do all of those fuzzy thinkers come from? Why the liberal education system of course. Critical thinking in this day and age comes down to if you want to super size that meal. :bang: :bang:

[DJofSD]

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/03/san-francisco-sheriff-ross-mirkarimi-sentenced-domestic-violence.html

San Francisco Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi was sentenced Monday to three years of probation in a domestic-violence case involving his wife, a former Venezuelan telenovela star.

Mirkarimi was also sentenced to one day in jail, for which he was given credit for time served. He will be required to complete 100 hours of community service and 52 weeks of domestic violence counseling. In addition, he has to pay fines and fees of nearly $600.

A real gem of a person.

[reckless]

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/03/san-francisco-sheriff-ross-mirkarimi-sentenced-domestic-violence.html



A real gem of a person.

Does anyone know what political party Ross belongs to? Or his ideological point-of-view? :lol: :lol: :lol:

My 'first' guess could be Republican... because ... well... abusing women and committing violence against them... isn't that an act of war on women??

[horses4courses]

Strange twist in these awful proceedings.
The gun used in this shooting traces back to a federal agent.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/17331e9da02d4ba49831a2f414e9ffd5/senators-feds-should-have-deported-sfc-man-killing

[Tom]

Eric Holder?

[Valuist]

33 sanctuary cities in California.

http://www.sanctuarycities.info/sanctuary_state_california.htm

[Clocker]

33 sanctuary cities in California.

http://www.sanctuarycities.info/sanctuary_state_california.htm

How many of them have elected officials that are illegal immigrants? :D

[Saratoga_Mike]

Strange twist in these awful proceedings.
The gun used in this shooting traces back to a federal agent.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/17331e9da02d4ba49831a2f414e9ffd5/senators-feds-should-have-deported-sfc-man-killing

Just saw this - perhaps more to this story than we understand

[Tom]

So what, now Obama is giving free health care, a driver's license, AND a gun to illegals when they cross the border????

[DJofSD]

It used to be use a gun, go to jail. Now it appears to be get a gun, go to SF.

[Tom]

If you're going,
to San Fran-cisco
Be sure to wear,
An Uzi hid somewhere.

If you're going,
to San Fran-cisco
You're going to meet some illegal people there.

For those who come,
to San Fran-cisco
Summertime,
will be a shoot-out there.

In the streets,
of San Fran-cisco,
Illegal people, with weapons everywhere.

(hats off to Scott McKenzie)

[DJofSD]

If you're going,
to San Fran-cisco
Be sure to wear,
An Uzi hid somewhere.

If you're going,
to San Fran-cisco
You're going to meet some illegal people there.

For those who come,
to San Fran-cisco
Summertime,
will be a shoot-out there.

In the streets,
of San Fran-cisco,
Illegal people, with weapons everywhere.

(hats off to Scott McKenzie)
Too bad Karl is dead otherwise we could get a duet of Clint and Karl singing your song.

[horses4courses]

Just saw this - perhaps more to this story than we understand

Looks like it was stolen out of an agent's car in June.
More charges for this bastard?

Give him a cell out on Alcatraz.
Lock him up - throw away the key.

[Show Me the Wire]

I know what you are saying...but I can't agree. If I am in Greece, and I can't find work and my family is going hungry...then only two options avail themselves to me. Either I stay in Greece and become a thief in order to survive...or I move to another country that I consider more "prosperous" than my own. And if I can't go there legally...then I am going there ILLEGALLY.

The urge to survive is man's basic instinct...and no "law" can stand in the way of that. You can catch the "offender"...and punish him in any way you deem necessary. But you can't really blame him.

I let this post alone for awhile so emotions won't dictate the direction. So let us reason together.

First, I do not disagree with you especially about no law can stand in the way of the instinct to survive. In another thread, I stated the same opinion that laws do not prevent people from acting contrary to the law.

Also, I agree understanding the motives for the behavior is important.

Second you raised some interesting points about your acts of kindness to people in need. The actions and the resulting consequences on your part are the crux of my question.

Let's say your generosity is noted and word spreads there is a prosperous grocery store owner who gives basic food staples to needy families. How many families can your prosperous grocery business sustain before your grocery business to remain viable? Is it 100, 1,000 families or more. Once, you your business feels the strain and you start limiting the number of families, some people needing to feed their families will start breaking into your store and take what they feel they need to feed their families. As TJDave said when your up against it you either fight against it or give up.

Also, the survival instinct kicks in for the people who want to protect their families survival from the father's who will do anything to ensure their families will survive.

The issue is not solely about illegal incursion, per se, but the behavior that follows the illegal incursion.

[DJofSD]

I let this post alone for awhile so emotions won't dictate the direction. So let us reason together.

First, I do not disagree with you especially about no law can stand in the way of the instinct to survive. In another thread, I stated the same opinion that laws do not prevent people from acting contrary to the law.

Also, I agree understanding the motives for the behavior is important.

Second you raised some interesting points about your acts of kindness to people in need. The actions and the resulting consequences on your part are the crux of my question.

Let's say your generosity is noted and word spreads there is a prosperous grocery store owner who gives basic food staples to needy families. How many families can your prosperous grocery business sustain before your grocery business to remain viable? Is it 100, 1,000 families or more. Once, you your business feels the strain and you start limiting the number of families, some people needing to feed their families will start breaking into your store and take what they feel they need to feed their families. As TJDave said when your up against it you either fight against it or give up.

Also, the survival instinct kicks in for the people who want to protect their families survival from the father's who will do anything to ensure their families will survive.

The issue is not solely about illegal incursion, per se, but the behavior that follows the illegal incursion.
At the risk of taking the thread further away from the main topic, what's the difference between the grocery store and it's owner and a sovereign nation and its citizens (taxpayers)?

[Show Me the Wire]

At the risk of taking the thread further away from the main topic, what's the difference between the grocery store and it's owner and a sovereign nation and its citizens (taxpayers)?

None it is an analogy. Especially, you can equate sanctuary cities as those local grocery stores, who dole out taxpayer funding instead of food.

[Clocker]

Senator Tom Cotton (R-Arkansas) has introduced legislation that would make sanctuary cities ineligible for federal immigration and law enforcement grants.

http://www.cotton.senate.gov/content/cotton-introduces-legislation-block-sanctuary-cities-receiving-federal-law-enforcement

[johnhannibalsmith]

somethng happened time for a law.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Senator Tom Cotton (R-Arkansas) has introduced legislation that would make sanctuary cities ineligible for federal immigration and law enforcement grants.

http://www.cotton.senate.gov/content/cotton-introduces-legislation-block-sanctuary-cities-receiving-federal-law-enforcement

Sadly, I think San Francisco would embrace this bill. On the topic of embracing, how about the attorney of the accused San Fran killer patting his client on the back and consoling him at today's hearing, as if he were a hurt child? Disgusting.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Eric Holder?

If offered a Supreme Court position by Hillary, he would decline. There's some good news.

[davew]

Sadly, I think San Francisco would embrace this bill. On the topic of embracing, how about the attorney of the accused San Fran killer patting his client on the back and consoling him at today's hearing, as if he were a hurt child? Disgusting.


he also said it is not his clients fault, it is a gun control issue... so no guns for law enforcement?? not sure why BLM need guns though.

[DJofSD]

not sure why BLM need guns though.
Seriously?

They deal with more than just the occasional misbehaving camper or two.

[johnhannibalsmith]

he also said it is not his clients fault, it is a gun control issue... so no guns for law enforcement?? not sure why BLM need guns though.

Probably is a gun control issue. He was in California, so while on business but not on duty had to comply with local controls and put it in the easiest spot to steal anything from.

[Tom]

White lives matter.
Women's lives matter.
American lives matter.

Apparently, Obama doesn't agree - this was only a white girl and a woman....so why should his Highness bother to comment on it, like he does for every Black thug killed? Racist pig.

[DJofSD]

White lives matter.
Women's lives matter.
American lives matter.

Apparently, Obama doesn't agree - this was only a white girl and a woman....so why should his Highness bother to comment on it, like he does for every Black thug killed? Racist pig.
I would guess that sins of omission are not covered in the Koran.

[DJofSD]

Come out! Come out! Where ever you are!
Are you now hiding in one of the US sanctuary cities?

[horses4courses]

Come out! Come out! Where ever you are!
Are you now hiding in one of the US sanctuary cities?

He's coming to get Donald Trump :lol:
Maybe they can compare mansions and asset portfolios.

[DJofSD]

He's coming to get Donald Trump :lol:
Maybe they can compare mansions and asset portfolios.
They should go to Obama's office and talk it out like men.

Then they can challenge each other to a $1,000,000 golf match. Guzman and Barry v. The Donald and a fourth to be named later.

[fast4522]

Sanctuary Cities, New Hampshire does not have one.

[DJofSD]

From an AZ sheriff -- not that one, a different one:
http://www.breitbart.com/video/2015/07/15/az-sheriff-obama-has-made-us-a-sanctuary-nation/

[johnhannibalsmith]

From an AZ sheriff -- not that one, a different one:
...


Oh the one that used his bedroom as a sanctuary for his illegal boyfriend until they broke up and then, allegedly, decided that was the time to threaten deportation. Politicians say anything.