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View Full Version : Los Alamitos Jockey Just misjudged the line and cost his horse the race


menifee
07-02-2015, 06:49 PM
Brayan Pena better run for his car - Los Alamitos 7/2 - race 4

Stillriledup
07-02-2015, 06:50 PM
What did I miss? That was an odd race, what was the guy on the 1 doing? :confused:

Exotic1
07-02-2015, 06:52 PM
Brayan Pena better run for his car - Los Alamitos 7/2 - race 4

I was watching it. I know he didn't see the drifter but he rode like he misjudged the wire - or something. You can't make sense of these guys.

HPFridays
07-02-2015, 06:52 PM
Agree, very strange. Pena reacted like he didn't notice the eventual winner on the far outside. Strange stretch run by #5 Cowtownmary too.

EMD4ME
07-02-2015, 06:57 PM
I find it amazing how everyone makes excuses....How about this? He wasn't supposed to win so you do what needs to be done to cash? You act like you didn't realize the wire was so far away.

Don't tell me he didn't see the 5 all the way out there. The blind stewards at NYRA saw the 5 all the way out there.

Stillriledup
07-02-2015, 06:58 PM
That's why you ride your mounts out. The guy on the 7 even stopped riding and almost missed a board spot himself because he was following the lead of the 1

Exotic1
07-02-2015, 06:59 PM
I find it amazing how everyone makes excuses....How about this? He wasn't supposed to win so you do what needs to be done to cash? You act like you didn't realize the wire was so far away.

Don't tell me he didn't see the 5 all the way out there. The blind stewards at NYRA saw the 5 all the way out there.

ROTFL

EMD4ME
07-02-2015, 07:00 PM
ROTFL

I can't resist. I'm sorry.

Exotic1
07-02-2015, 07:00 PM
That's why you ride your mounts out. The guy on the 7 even stopped riding and almost missed a board spot himself because he was following the lead I'd the winner.

Come on. Give these guys at least a week to get used to the new track.

EMD4ME
07-02-2015, 07:02 PM
That's why you ride your mounts out. The guy on the 7 even stopped riding and almost missed a board spot himself because he was following the lead I'd the winner.

Maybe the PPV was supposed to end 51 and the 7 was making sure he didn't screw it up too?

You know many times a fan gets in the way, a wrestler gets hurt (like for real) and you need to improvise to ensure the proper ending.

PA, forgive me, I can't resist. It is a complete insult to my intelligence that this crap happens and as much as I try to shut up, I can't. That race obviously had a preordained ending and good golly no matter what, the boys were going to make sure they made some tax free income.

SuperPickle
07-02-2015, 08:16 PM
Oh totally. It's not that the bad apprentice jockey is a bad apprentice jockey. It's that bad apprentice jockey is a criminal mastermind.

Btw... the guy who road the #10 in the next race makes Brian Pena looks like Joel Rosario. Essentially any human who weighs 110 or less can ride today at Los Al.

appistappis
07-02-2015, 08:36 PM
I had the super either way so he cost me some money but even i had to laugh...he goes by stops riding and starts patting his horse while the five keeps staggering home in the parking lot.

EMD4ME
07-02-2015, 08:39 PM
that jock belongs in Hollywood or the WWE... great actor...

Kash$
07-02-2015, 08:47 PM
1.Drugs
2.Cheating
3.Inmates run the asylum
4.Lies
5.Stiffing horses
6.no rules


Sounds llike something someone would stay away from

EMD4ME
07-02-2015, 08:51 PM
1.Drugs
2.Cheating
3.Inmates run the asylum
4.Lies
5.Stiffing horses
6.no rules


Sounds llike something someone would stay away from

Yeah but it's so much fun overcoming all that crap, don't ya say?

EMD4ME
07-02-2015, 08:52 PM
As Thaskalos once said: You can't focus on today's controversy/tragedy for too long because the next one is just a moment away.

Don't quote me, just paraphrasing. That was so TRUE.

Stillriledup
07-02-2015, 09:04 PM
As Thaskalos once said: You can't focus on today's controversy/tragedy for too long because the next one, that nobody will do anything about, is just a moment away.

Don't quote me, just paraphrasing. That was so TRUE.
Fixed that for you/Gus ;)

Prytanis
07-02-2015, 09:08 PM
What did I miss? That was an odd race, what was the guy on the 1 doing? :confused:
He thought he had the race won.
He didn't see the outside horse!

SandyW
07-02-2015, 10:34 PM
He thought he had the race won.
He didn't see the outside horse!

There seems to be two finish lines at Los Al, some jockeys have made the mistake of thinking they have crossed the finish line when they have not.
This happened last year also.

HuggingTheRail
07-02-2015, 10:42 PM
Okay, so IF we assume this was a legitimate mistake, and the jock says he didn't see the 5...

What is the appropriate punishment?

EMD4ME
07-02-2015, 10:47 PM
Okay, so IF we assume this was a legitimate mistake, and the jock says he didn't see the 5...

What is the appropriate punishment?


If he didn't see the 5, is it ok that he totally stood up way before the wire?

If he was being punished for misjudging the wire like that, I'd give him 6 months so he can never forget where a wire is again. Lifetime ban if happens again.

Stillriledup
07-02-2015, 11:02 PM
They don't get paid enough to make sure they know where the race ends? Isn't this the first thing you look into If you're riding a race? To know when it ends?

Some_One
07-02-2015, 11:05 PM
Okay, so IF we assume this was a legitimate mistake, and the jock says he didn't see the 5...

What is the appropriate punishment?

In the UK, 21 days vacation, there is no excuses there, you are expected to know the proper course to take (See the Cheltenham cross country course which always catches at least one jock every year)

Stillriledup
07-02-2015, 11:09 PM
I agree with the 6 months that seems fair.

Prytanis
07-02-2015, 11:14 PM
They don't get paid enough to make sure they know where the race ends? Isn't this the first thing you look into If you're riding a race? To know when it ends?
You would think!

Stillriledup
07-03-2015, 12:28 AM
You would think!

It's a lot to ask apparently! :D

dilanesp
07-03-2015, 01:52 AM
The stewards clearly need to investigate this. It really does look like he saw he was going to pass the favorite on his 50 to 1 shot, said "I'm not supposed to win", and stood up the rest of the way.

This isn't like Shoemaker standing up for one stride in the 1957 Derby. This looks like a stiff job.

Stillriledup
07-03-2015, 02:01 AM
The stewards clearly need to investigate this. It really does look like he saw he was going to pass the favorite on his 50 to 1 shot, said "I'm not supposed to win", and stood up the rest of the way.

This isn't like Shoemaker standing up for one stride in the 1957 Derby. This looks like a stiff job.

It looks really bad.

nijinski
07-03-2015, 02:22 AM
Okay, so IF we assume this was a legitimate mistake, and the jock says he didn't see the 5...

What is the appropriate punishment?
This was Shoemaker's Derby punishment But the very next day, race day, he did just that.

"I knew," Shoemaker would write in his 1988 biography, "I had made a big boo-boo."

The blunder earned him a 15-day suspension, not just because Shoemaker pulled up the horse but, according to Nerud, because he lied about it afterward. Shoemaker originally claimed the horse took a bad step, but relented after being confronted by the stewards. The strange thing is he wasn't even supposed to be aboard Gallant Man in the Derby.

no breathalyzer
07-03-2015, 02:56 AM
The stewards clearly need to investigate this. It really does look like he saw he was going to pass the favorite on his 50 to 1 shot, said "I'm not supposed to win", and stood up the rest of the way.

This isn't like Shoemaker standing up for one stride in the 1957 Derby. This looks like a stiff job.

i'm thinking the same.. ask you're self why would you ever stop riding on a horse thats 50-1 like that.. you surly got to be thinking some buddy is closing in on you.. pretty sure jockeys are trained to ride thru the wire ;) .. but seriously how many times you see a horse on top by 8 lengths yet the jock rides them out hard with the whip ..... guess the kid aint hungry enough idk

Kash$
07-03-2015, 08:40 AM
This was Shoemaker's Derby punishment But the very next day, race day, he did just that.

"I knew," Shoemaker would write in his 1988 biography, "I had made a big boo-boo."

The blunder earned him a 15-day suspension, not just because Shoemaker pulled up the horse but, according to Nerud, because he lied about it afterward. Shoemaker originally claimed the horse took a bad step, but relented after being confronted by the stewards. The strange thing is he wasn't even supposed to be aboard Gallant Man in the Derby.

Night before Shoe had dinner with the owners.Shoe told owners he had a dream that he stood up before the wire,owners jiggled and said Shoe that would never happen to you.

Overlay
07-03-2015, 10:21 AM
There's another thread on this race:

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=124048

affirmedny
07-03-2015, 10:37 AM
Night before Shoe had dinner with the owners.Shoe told owners he had a dream that he stood up before the wire,owners jiggled and said Shoe that would never happen to you.

great story on Shoe that tells how he dealt with misjudging the finish line at the end:

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/news/story?id=1461326

dilanesp
07-03-2015, 07:23 PM
great story on Shoe that tells how he dealt with misjudging the finish line at the end:

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/news/story?id=1461326

Bear in mind the legend outstrips the reality in the 1957 Derby. He only stood up for an instant and there's no evidence the horse even slowed down. He lost a photo to Hartack and Iron Liege. Might have cost him the race, might not have.

ultracapper
07-03-2015, 07:42 PM
This kid misjudged the wire. He was headed for the winner's circle when he was told he blew it.

menifee
07-04-2015, 01:03 AM
This kid misjudged the wire. He was headed for the winner's circle when he was told he blew it.

He was suspended 7 days.

dilanesp
07-04-2015, 02:53 PM
He was suspended 7 days.

Anyone who bet that horse at 50 to 1 is going to say that is light.

Stillriledup
07-04-2015, 04:47 PM
He was suspended 7 days.

Just another slap in the face to the gamblers, typical chrb wrist slap, I'm surprised they suspended him at all, most times jocks excuse away mistakes and they buy it hook, line and sinker.

cj
07-04-2015, 04:49 PM
Just another slap in the face to the gamblers, typical chrb wrist slap, I'm surprised they suspended him at all, most times jocks excuse away mistakes and they buy it hook, line and sinker.

I disagree on this one. He was an apprentice and he probably needed the money the win would have earned him worst than any gambler did. 7 days, in addition to the self inflicted punishment of the purse, seems fair to me.

ultracapper
07-04-2015, 04:51 PM
He definitely deserved something. His mistake changed the complexion of the entire day. Instead of that monster bomb being a part of all the horizontals, the 2/5 that everybody singled got up.

Stillriledup
07-04-2015, 05:00 PM
I disagree on this one. He was an apprentice and he probably needed the money the win would have earned him worst than any gambler did. 7 days, in addition to the self inflicted punishment of the purse, seems fair to me.

I think the punishment essentially says "what you did is acceptable, just don't do it again" as opposed to "this is unacceptable"

B

cj
07-04-2015, 05:38 PM
I think the punishment essentially says "what you did is acceptable, just don't do it again" as opposed to "this is unacceptable"

B

I don't see it that way at all. This guy isn't an experienced vet. I see riders do just as bad by not riding out to the wire for lesser spots and they have more experience and get ZERO days.

Stillriledup
07-04-2015, 06:01 PM
I don't see it that way at all. This guy isn't an experienced vet. I see riders do just as bad by not riding out to the wire for lesser spots and they have more experience and get ZERO days.

Two wrongs don't make a right, those guys who stop riding getting no punishment is also a slap in the face.

Also, is it too much to ask a jockey to know when the race ends? We're giving him a pass for not knowing that?

cj
07-04-2015, 06:05 PM
Two wrongs don't make a right, those guys who stop riding getting no punishment is also a slap in the face.

Also, is it too much to ask a jockey to know when the race ends? We're giving him a pass for not knowing that?

He isn't the first and won't be the last.

I'm not excusing him. I'm saying the punishment for a guy that is probably struggling to make any money is fine by me. I don't want the guy strung up and quartered which is the impression I'm getting from you.

Stillriledup
07-04-2015, 06:18 PM
He isn't the first and won't be the last.

I'm not excusing him. I'm saying the punishment for a guy that is probably struggling to make any money is fine by me. I don't want the guy strung up and quartered which is the impression I'm getting from you.

No, I think a year suspension would be too much, but at what point do we make the punishments severe enough so that they ride out mounts? Do you think a 7 Dayer is going to deter anyone?

If you do the math, you could probably come up with a reasonable estimate as to what amount of money he will lose in those 7 days from not riding. The pick 5 pool was 220k someone was probably alive for more money than he will make and if bombs had won some of the other races he might have cost a bettor 50 or 100k

I think a 30 day suspension would have been consistent with the 'crime' and remember he's also being given the benefit of the doubt that it was just an honest mistake (vs a criminal act)

cj
07-04-2015, 06:27 PM
No, I think a year suspension would be too much, but at what point do we make the punishments severe enough so that they ride out mounts? Do you think a 7 Dayer is going to deter anyone?

If you do the math, you could probably come up with a reasonable estimate as to what amount of money he will lose in those 7 days from not riding. The pick 5 pool was 220k someone was probably alive for more money than he will make and if bombs had won some of the other races he might have cost a bettor 50 or 100k

I think a 30 day suspension would have been consistent with the 'crime' and remember he's also being given the benefit of the doubt that it was just an honest mistake (vs a criminal act)

Yeah, I get it. I disagree. Such is life, time to move on.

johnhannibalsmith
07-04-2015, 07:13 PM
7 days of lost business for any rider much less a guy trying to carve out a spot is pretty harsh. I'm not arguing the punishment itself, but for whatever larger reason it may serve to dispute SRU, in the context of the guy's business it isn't a meaningless gesture.

Tom
07-04-2015, 07:34 PM
Why did they bother renovating the track for a lousy couple of weeks of racing anyway?

If you have to have two finish lines, you probably shouldn't be running a race track.

Run races your crappy track can handle and forget the rest.

cj
07-04-2015, 07:42 PM
Why did they bother renovating the track for a lousy couple of weeks of racing anyway?

If you have to have two finish lines, you probably shouldn't be running a race track.

Run races your crappy track can handle and forget the rest.

Horsemen would never admit it, but just taking a few weeks off would be much better for the circuit.

Tall One
07-04-2015, 07:48 PM
Keeneland has two finish points for their dirt races. Most of races on the dirt end at the finish line in front of the grandstand, but races at a mile and a sixteenth, start and finish at the sixteenth pole. This finish line is located in front of the clubhouse. They have a red indicator, like a bulls eye, that is placed just beyond the finish line inside the rail which reminds everybody where the race ends.

Tom
07-04-2015, 07:51 PM
Horsemen would never admit it, but just taking a few weeks off would be much better for the circuit.

Exactly what I was thinking.
Go to Delmar early, take a dip in the ocean, cook some dogs on the beech.
Give the freaking horses a break. You might fill few more races.

cj
07-04-2015, 08:01 PM
Keeneland has two finish points for their dirt races. Most of races on the dirt end at the finish line in front of the grandstand, but races at a mile and a sixteenth, start and finish at the sixteenth pole. This finish line is located in front of the clubhouse. They have a red indicator, like a bulls eye, that is placed just beyond the finish line inside the rail which reminds everybody where the race ends.

Laurel and Oaklawn have alternate finish lines as well. There are probably a few more out there.

cj
07-04-2015, 08:34 PM
It just happened again, cost a horse third.

Tom
07-04-2015, 08:37 PM
You could almost hear the jock say to himself.....D'oh! :D :D

proximity
07-04-2015, 08:52 PM
It just happened again, cost a horse third.

omg, by meet's end half the jockey colony could be suspended for del mar. :)

ultracapper
07-04-2015, 10:05 PM
No, I think a year suspension would be too much, but at what point do we make the punishments severe enough so that they ride out mounts? Do you think a 7 Dayer is going to deter anyone?

If you do the math, you could probably come up with a reasonable estimate as to what amount of money he will lose in those 7 days from not riding. The pick 5 pool was 220k someone was probably alive for more money than he will make and if bombs had won some of the other races he might have cost a bettor 50 or 100k

I think a 30 day suspension would have been consistent with the 'crime' and remember he's also being given the benefit of the doubt that it was just an honest mistake (vs a criminal act)

It's not that the kid didn't ride out his mount, he thought the race was over. I'll never forget Vic calling Eswan Flores's first winner. He was 3 lengths past the finish line and he cracked the horse one more time. Vic said something to the effect, "You've done it young man. The race is won. You can ease up." Funny as hell.

ultracapper
07-04-2015, 10:18 PM
It just happened again, cost a horse third.

I just watched that race. How incredibly ironic. It was Eswan Flores on #7 Delaney's Joy. He ended up dead heating for the place with the 4/5 favorite, but would have placed alone if he wouldn't have had the brain fart.

Classic.

cj
07-04-2015, 10:35 PM
I just watched that race. How incredibly ironic. It was Eswan Flores on #7 Delaney's Joy. He ended up dead heating for the place with the 4/5 favorite, but would have placed alone if he wouldn't have had the brain fart.

Classic.

I meant to say cost the horse second, my bad, didn't realize it turned out to be a dead heat in any case.

theiman
07-04-2015, 11:42 PM
Why did they bother renovating the track for a lousy couple of weeks of racing anyway?

If you have to have two finish lines, you probably shouldn't be running a race track.

Run races your crappy track can handle and forget the rest.

Los Al has one finish line, unless you are including the tape they bring on the track for the Weiner Dog races.

The finish line is the same for the T-Breds and the Quarters.
It is where the rail is clearly painted red ends. It is where the wire crosses over the track. It is where the mirror inside the rail is located.
If a jock cant figure it he is at fault.

wisconsin
07-04-2015, 11:43 PM
Honestly, what is so hard for these tracks? Laurel has a bright red light on the CORRECT pole of finish, both turf and dirt, and mis-judging there is a thing of the past.

Stillriledup
07-04-2015, 11:50 PM
It just happened again, cost a horse third.

So now if this happened the other day, and the entire world knows that you sorta gotta pay attention to detail, and you're not an apprentice and you dont learn from the other guys mistake,I think a 6 month suspension is in order. How does this happen again?

appistappis
07-05-2015, 12:17 AM
I got no problem with seven days...he made a mistake....he cost me a couple hundred for sure but i actually laughed when i saw it.

v j stauffer
07-05-2015, 12:33 AM
It's not that the kid didn't ride out his mount, he thought the race was over. I'll never forget Vic calling Eswan Flores's first winner. He was 3 lengths past the finish line and he cracked the horse one more time. Vic said something to the effect, "You've done it young man. The race is won. You can ease up." Funny as hell.

I remember that race. Hey better safe than sorry.

I met Mr. Pena last year at Fresno. We had him in a couple of times. Just bug boy stuff.

Seemed like a fine young man. Respectful and attentive.

IMO no chance he would be involved in anything nefarious.

I worked the Sept. meet at Los Al last year. Several jocks told me it took some getting used to the finish line. Not where it was placed. But how long the stretch is. When they straighten away there the field runs about 10 jumps "before" they pass the quarter pole. In fact Michael Wrona mentioned that in Kentuckian's race today.

Much different than any other So.Cal. track. A couple of riders told me it took some getting used to.

Bug boys make mistakes. That's what bug boy do. It's one of the reasons they get a weight advantage or trainers would never give them a chance.

I'm quite sure Mr. Pena feels just awful and will be quite determined to not make the same mistake again.

I felt the sanction was appropriate. I might have voted for a few more days. Maybe 10. Just to make the ruling look different than a normal suspension and so the other riders would be reminded this was an egregious error.

dilanesp
07-05-2015, 03:01 AM
Why did they bother renovating the track for a lousy couple of weeks of racing anyway?

If you have to have two finish lines, you probably shouldn't be running a race track.

Run races your crappy track can handle and forget the rest.

i can assure you Los Al has 1 finish line.

Stillriledup
07-05-2015, 03:43 AM
Yeah, I get it. I disagree. Such is life, time to move on.

You sound like a racing industry exec who doesnt care. Just givem a slap on the wrist, nothing will ever change in this game as long as we have people saying "move on"

cj
07-05-2015, 09:43 AM
You sound like a racing industry exec who doesnt care. Just givem a slap on the wrist, nothing will ever change in this game as long as we have people saying "move on"

I'd like to think I sound more like a human being that doesn't think a struggling young rider should be crucified for a dumb but honest mistake.

Tom
07-05-2015, 09:57 AM
Los Al has one finish line, unless you are including the tape they bring on the track for the Weiner Dog races.

The finish line is the same for the T-Breds and the Quarters.
It is where the rail is clearly painted red ends. It is where the wire crosses over the track. It is where the mirror inside the rail is located.
If a jock cant figure it he is at fault.

I stand corrected. I thought it was mentioned here that there were two.
I don't watch Los Al unless it is at night, the 4.5 races.

dilanesp
07-05-2015, 03:19 PM
I stand corrected. I thought it was mentioned here that there were two.
I don't watch Los Al unless it is at night, the 4.5 races.

You aren't missing anything.