Suffolk Trainer worth a watch

[Suff]

Burton K Sipp.

Dominate trainer around these parts 20 years ago. Got himself jammed up and went AWOL. He broke back in at Finger Lakes recently and shipped 35 head to suffolk for the summer meet.

He's had some tough beats. 46-3-12-7 , But an agent I know who is getting his pilots up for this guy says he has runners. And further... He brought the Vet in last week and struck a deal to have everyone of his animals scoped and blood drawn monthly. Thats a rather unusual move of quality at Suffolk downs.

If your are jonezing to play and your stuck with a mid week card at Suffolk... Give this guy a look. He owns all his own stock,he's playing to win and will.


Name Starts 1st 2nd 3rd Earnings
John Rigattieri 40 16 7 3 $137,731
Ronald J. Dandy 36 10 6 7 $107,918
Marshall L. Novak 27 9 4 5 $87,326
Peter Bazeos 31 7 5 2 $86,274
Raymond E. Stifano 30 6 7 2 $76,427
Robert A. Raymond 38 6 3 1 $37,504
Frank P. Shannon 14 5 2 0 $72,100
Marcus J. Vitali 27 4 7 2 $34,482
Burton K. Sipp 46 3 12 7 $45,073

[Figman]

Suff,
One correction, SIPP isn't, wasn't and won't be licensed or allowed at Finger Lakes and is barred from most states. New York State certainly wouldn't let this guy in from his poor historical record of constantly being in trouble with the law!

Massachusetts is taking a big chance in letting him race as he has as bad a trainer's record for following the rules of racing as anyone that has ever trained a horse.

[Tom]

I have nothing on Sipp at any track before 5/1/04. MY db goes back to 2001, May.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Why monthly blood draw? Steward's orders?

[kenwoodallpromos]

Trouble in Pa too. Tell him to email me!

[Tom]

I remember this guy from somewhere, though. FL before 2001?
Name is clearly familiar, but details escape me.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Suffolk Downs is the armpit of all racing as far as Im concerned!Lots of crooks and very creepy people.I have never heard of this guy you are talking about.35 head and he owns them all!!.Hmmm .Hope he has a lot of money!All the scoping bloodwork feeding help blacksmith cost huge not to mention workmans comp!!!.What kind of infractions does he have?? Anybody know?? Is it heresay??.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Google search for the name just has PA court saying track barred him w/o allowing an appeal; back to 1993,1994, 1997. Maybe they just thought he was creepy, maybe no provable reason.

[IRISHLADSTABLE]

Suff said watch out for this guy

Tue 6/1/04

Suffolk Downs

R4 (8) Speed Out Front

R5 (4) Wings O Change

R6 (3) Uncle Ack


Jimmy

[Figman]

Kenwood-
Try Lexis-Nexus not Google;

Here's the "tip of the iceberg!"

Since 1968, Sipp has amassed a lengthy history of violations of both the law and the rules of racing. Although he is licensable once again in Pennsylvania, no PA racetrack would welcome his presence in recent years until Suffolk Downs in the ARCI state of Massachusetts found the lure of 35 horses to fill their entry box more important that their reputation. So Sipp is baaaack!
Nevertheless, a summary of some of the more poignant portions of a found report follow:

In August of 1968, a thoroughbred trainer sold a horse to a private individual for $ 3,500; Sipp was the private individual's horse trainer. Thereafter, Sipp demanded a $ 2,000 kickback on the sale of the horse from the previous trainer, as he declared the horse was only worth $1,500. When the previous trainer refused to acquiesce, Sipp and his brother repeatedly threatened the trainer with bodily injury. Subsequently, the previous trainer received a visit from two men at his Monmouth Park barn whereupon he was again threatened with bodily harm; there was at least one witness to this incident. Thereafter, one of Sipp's employees furnished a statement that Sipp was offering $ 500 to anyone that would 'take care of' the previous trainer.

Additionally, in September of 1968, her is a "minor" one. Sipp became involved in a verbal altercation with a track veterinarian. Because the veterinarian had scratched one of Sipp's horses for medical reasons, Sipp used foul and abusive language; there were several witnesses. Subsequently, Sipp was fined $200 for using abusive and obscene language to a racing official. Sipp appealed this fine to the NJ Commission whereupon said appeal was denied.

Over the years previous and post 1968 there were also numerous drug violations for drugs like sublimaze and others certainly not therapeutical medications. I don't think you need to know anymore to solidfy the claim that this guy is not what horse racing needs now or in the future!

[Zaf]

We'll overlook these things, as long as we end up on the short lines a little more often:cool:

ZAFONIC

[Suff]

Originally posted by Figman
Kenwood-
Try Lexis-Nexus not Google;

Here's the "tip of the iceberg!"

Since 1968, Sipp has amassed a lengthy history of violations of both the law and the rules of racing. Although he is licensable once

Fig

I know Sipp. and I knew everything you typed and more. I just didn't think it worth mentioning. Because he did his time, paid his debt and is flying straight. We all have a past.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Sounds like min-mafia wannabe. So far not much that would affect my betting, unless a stiff or 2.

[CryingForTheHorses]

I dont think there has never been a trainer or owner yell and scream at a vet...I have!!.As for him offering money to get that other trainer...who knows...1968 is a lonnnnnnnnnnng time ago!!.Lets give him the benefit of the doubt.Everyone deserves a second chance!!! Ken woodall!! A horse will get bloodwork to see if his blood is down,then you administer vitiamins into the horse,you have a series of 3 shots,makes them eat better,gives them a better coat etc,Blood testing for illegal drugs is done in the state detention barn.

[IRISHLADSTABLE]

Today at Suffolk Downs

R4 Speed Out Front Won paying $4.80 $3.60 $2.20

R5 Wings O Change Was 2nd paying $3.00 $2.20

R6 Uncle Ack was out of the money ,Uncle Ack was also claimed
from Sipp



Jimmy

[reckless]

...is that Burton Sipp certainly plays the game on the edge.

Sipp was just about one of the very first trainers in the business ... to ...

syndicate cheap horses which allowed the 'little' guy an entre to the Sport of Kings. And he did this in the middle/late 1960s, unheard of at the time.

... he was leading trainer at virtually all the smaller Atlantic and east coast tracks: Atlantic City, Garden State, Erie Downs, Keystone, Penn National, Delaware, Suffolk and Rockingham, and the minor N.E. tracks of another era, Lincoln and Narragansett; let's not forget the darling Fairs: Northampton, Berkshire, Brockton, etc., etc., etc.

Sipp was about the first trainer to have a presence at these multiple tracks, simultaneously, starting from his base in Pa./NJ and having satellite operations at the aforementioned ovals. The legendary Marion Van Berg was another with a rather large national operation and both he and Sipp were few and far between at that time.

Sipp was the trainer of record at these places but the shedrows were run by people that later made a name for themselves when they opted to go it alone: Ed Lehman, Debbie Shahadi, Mark Lyons and Dennis Desmarais, names somewhat familiar to those fans in the know in the Pa. and N.J. areas.

He trained mostly cheap stock but was the trainer of Steelwood, a game rugged type that once ran third against Spectacular Bid in the Monmouth Invitational.

But Burton Sipp would rather steal a dollar than earn two legit and he did have his share of troubles.

Sipp brought Bruce McCall into the racing game and many people have told me that Sipp was the 'D. Wayne Lukas before D. Wayne Lukas'.

He allegedly did McCall wrong, lost the many hundreds of thousands of dollars McCall invested in the game, which he later did many times over before he--McCall--got into his own brand of trouble.

Sipp once had a 7-5 shot in the feature race at Atlantic City in a race with just one other real foe, one listed at 9-5 or so, in a six horse field. Sipp wanted to make sure he'd win it and he 'helped' his chances by putting in a scratch an hour before the race--but it was on the other horse, not his that Sipp scratched! He got in real trouble on that one, a real big fine and many days suspended.

One time, when in a claiming feud with another trainer, Sipp allegedly had one of his grooms go to that other trainer and ask for a job, saying Sipp fired him. The groom got the job and actually worked for the other trainer while still getting a salary from Sipp.

The groom would thrn feed Sipp the important info on a horse: who was going good, who was sore, etc. Sipp cleaned the clock of that trainer, taking only the good ones and leaving the bad ones alone. That actually went on for a long time before the other trainer finally caught on.

Back to syndicating cheapies. Sipp would send a number of vans to the unrecognized meets and fairs in Montana, Wyoming and Washington and buy 100s of horses for about $100 or $200 each, provided the horse had a running line or two at a major track like Santa Anita or Bay Meadows in their pp's. He'd then syndicate those same horses back East into 40 shares at $2,000 and $3,000 a share! He did this 100s of times and he'd also take a 10% commission!!

But the real misdeeds that got him into the most trouble was when he was accused of insuring these kind of horses---for much more than their real value-- and having them suddenly die. That's when he was ruled off up until recently and that's why little current info is on him in recent data files.

He lives in South Jersey and up until his current foray as owner-trainer Sipp ran his very own petting zoo on his property. All sorts of animals, many wild and exoctic animals live at his zoo and I believe he has some very exoctic birds as well. I have never been there and have regretted not going because I am told that Sipp is great with the kids and adults in talking about the animals.

I remember him as having a keen eye for a horse and many a horseman have said that Sipp could have been a real major domo in the racing game if he played it straight.

Sorry for the long post.

Yours in racing.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Great post!! Thanks for the info.;)

[Suff]

Originally posted by McSchell_Racing
Great post!! Thanks for the info.;)

17.oo dollar winnner in the opener at the downs today

[Buddha]

He had one in last week before their break that didnt run any good, then had one in tonight that I forgot to bet. Ran second at like 12-1. Has one in tomorrow and none Tuesday. MNR is going on another break after Tuesday. Not sure if he is staying at MNR for the winter, or if he has stalls or anything, but something for everyone to think about.

[Suff]

he's got 19 stalls there. None on Campus. He has his best stock there. Tonight was his 3rd and 4th starts.

He has a really nice colt named "special offer" that ran 7th the other night. had been shipped to NJ,,, Then LA and then back to WV. I watched this one out work 65 live shippers about 2 weeks ago. When fit.... He will be a hand full.

ALSO WATCH.... ATA-SLEW and FAIR ENOUGH...


He's only in WV because he was denied at Delta Downs and in Texas. He has 60 head but is forced to put 40 out to the farm because no one in USA will do business with him. But... I've had "hands on" most of his stock and I can tell you that he has 3 serious runners with him right now.

1, SpeciaL Offer

2. Fair Enough

3. Ata -Slew.


They're all runners,

[shanta]

he's got 19 stalls there. None on Campus. He has his best stock there. Tonight was his 3rd and 4th starts.

He has a really nice colt named "special offer" that ran 7th the other night. had been shipped to NJ,,, Then LA and then back to WV. I watched this one out work 65 live shippers about 2 weeks ago. When fit.... He will be a hand full.

ALSO WATCH.... ATA-SLEW and FAIR ENOUGH...


He's only in WV because he was denied at Delta Downs and in Texas. He has 60 head but is forced to put 40 out to the farm because no one in USA will do business with him. But... I've had "hands on" most of his stock and I can tell you that he has 3 serious runners with him right now.

1, SpeciaL Offer

2. Fair Enough

3. Ata -Slew.


They're all runners,

Thanx for the heads up Suff. They are all now on my watch list.
Richie

[John]

Be careful with these horses guys, Sipp, has outfoxed the best of us.

[IRISHLADSTABLE]

Leading Trainers at Suffolk Downs
Starting Date: 05/01/2004
Ending Date: 11/30/2004

Name Starts 1st 2nd 3rd Earnings
John Rigattieri 306 93 51 40 $1,078,468
Ronald J. Dandy 274 62 42 38 $636,728
Raymond E. Stifano 290 58 49 39 $583,453
Burton K. Sipp 390 51 50 44 $409,225
Robert A. Raymond 263 34 29 23 $295,594
Kevin G. Clark 234 30 38 32 $321,514
Marcus J. Vitali 169 28 30 22 $286,401
Marshall L. Novak 134 28 19 20 $272,947
Carlos R. Figueroa 241 26 40 29 $187,976
Michael J. Collins 190 25 23 31 $233,161
Peter Bazeos 184 24 25 17 $279,820
Karl M. Grusmark 126 21 17 22 $302,100
Dana Popp 199 20 19 26 $164,747
Wayne J. Marcoux 165 19 29 22 $262,800
Florence Gemma Siravo 196 18 27 22 $200,632
Frank P. Shannon 108 17 17 18 $268,042
Arthur A. Duffy, Jr. 101 16 20 22 $136,159
John T. Botty 46 16 4 2 $99,845
John M. Rodriguez 136 15 18 22 $193,825
Charles Assimakopoulos 86 15 18 11 $244,516





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[John]

Thats is interesting, Sipp, had raced the most 390 times but, only had 51 winners about 8% winners Yet, he finished 145 times in the money and earned $409.000.[ 4th higest ]

maybe McSchell_Racing or someone can tell us if Sipp had a profitable meet with 35 horses and dozen stable workers.....tough game for trainers too.

[Zaf]

Big Price Tonight for Sipp !

8 Catch Bullets 44.00 15.20 8.60

ZAFONIC

[Buddha]

and ata slew is entered for Saturday

[CryingForTheHorses]

Thats is interesting, Sipp, had raced the most 390 times but, only had 51 winners about 8% winners Yet, he finished 145 times in the money and earned $409.000.[ 4th higest ]

maybe McSchell_Racing or someone can tell us if Sipp had a profitable meet with 35 horses and dozen stable workers.....tough game for trainers too.

Thanks John,I dont think he made money!..390 times with 400g's take home! Thats less then 4k per horse!If you think about it, ALL then horses have to be fed, Shod,Vet etc etc. The help is also costly as is workmans comp, I would hate to see what he lost betting, Even know he won 51 races, Its a far cry from doing well.Im also wondering why a guy would just fill a race. I would hate to be a owner and the trainer calling me and telling me my horse was in but he is just there to fill the race.Im sure he also sold lots of them horses dirt cheap after cooking them in races!

[cj]

McSchell, he obviously didn't have 390 horses, some started a lot more than once. Assuming he had around 35 horses, he made between 11,000 and 12,000 per horse. I don't know what costs are like at Suffolk, which we would need to know. Of course with his fees, I'm sure Sipp himself did fine with 35 stalls filled, its the owners who won or lost the money. Am I wrong here?

[JustRalph]

McSchell, he obviously didn't have 390 horses, some started a lot more than once. Assuming he had around 35 horses, he made between 11,000 and 12,000 per horse. I don't know what costs are like at Suffolk, which we would need to know. Of course with his fees, I'm sure Sipp himself did fine with 35 stalls filled, its the owners who won or lost the money. Am I wrong here?

I am glad somebody said it......... I was thinking it while reading the thread.

He could have paid some serious bills if he played that 44 dollar horse right.....

Am I wrong here?

[Doc]

[QUOTE=He lives in South Jersey and up until his current foray as owner-trainer Sipp ran his very own petting zoo on his property. All sorts of animals, many wild and exoctic animals live at his zoo and I believe he has some very exoctic birds as well. I have never been there and have regretted not going because I am told that Sipp is great with the kids and adults in talking about the animals.


[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately, trouble followed Sipp at his "Animal Kingdom" near Jobstown, N.J. A few years ago some of his exotic animals were dying under "unusual circumstances," much like in his scheme to kill thoroughbreds for the insurance money.

Also - Sipp's resident veterinarian at Animal Kingdom (don't know if he's still there) is the infamous Lenny Patrick, who went on trial accused of killing a horse for insurance money back in the mid-1990's.

In the history of racing, Sipp has more rulings against him then any other guy. This is a fact. You can check the ARCI records if you think I'm making this up.

I have many, many stories about Sipp and the bad things he has done. A leopard doesn't change his spots...and he's just not good for the game.

Why do you think he's training at SUffolk? Well, for the same reason that jockey Orlando Bocachica was riding there. Bocachica was barred at Philadelphia and most other tracks for using a buzzer...and Suffolk was the only track that would take him because they don't recognize the same rulings that are enforced in other jurisdictions.

Doc

[John]

CJ, you are right, Sipp according to Suff, had about 40 head and ran 391 times at Suffolk. I think he made money.I am not sure if Sipp bets his horses. I have never seen him go to the window.But, that's not to say someone else might. maybe SUFF knows.

[Suff]

. Of course with his fees, I'm sure Sipp himself did fine with 35 stalls filled, its the owners who won or lost the money. Am I wrong here?

Sipp doesn't run a public Stable. He owns all his own stock 100%. I really don't think he even wants Owners. And he never Bets.

[Suff]

[QUOTE]


and Suffolk was the only track that would take him because they don't recognize the same rulings that are enforced in other jurisdictions.

Doc


They recognize them.. Its just that they were having trouble filling stalls and they had to take a shot with SIPP... He filled a Barn and filled many races. And he did a Good Job in 2004 at Suffolk.

The Best of my Knowledge Boccachicia is only Barred from Pennsylvannia? Thats what I understood. I've talked with him a Number of times. He "confessed" to using a buzzer in PA in 2003. He was ruled off in March 2004. Nice Kid... He has a Smokin Girlfriend that is an excercise rider... But she's jammed up on the Junk and he was carrying her $$ and made a Big Boo-Boo.

[Suff]

...

He lives in South Jersey and up until his current foray as owner-trainer Sipp ran his very own petting zoo on his property. All sorts of animals, many wild and exoctic animals live at his zoo and I believe he has some very exoctic birds as well. I have never been there and have regretted not going because I am told that Sipp is great with the kids and adults in talking about the animals.

I remember him as having a keen eye for a horse and many a horseman have said that Sipp could have been a real major domo in the racing game if he played it straight.

Sorry for the long post.

Yours in racing.

Burton is a very interesting guy...and you basically nailed him. The Exotic animal breeding program he had has subsequently been sold..and Burton isn't there anymore. He still owns the ZOO.. and has tried to sell it, but has problems with the county due to the fact he built many of his own cages, without permit and not up to code. As a result he is "leasing " his Zoo to a Husband/Wife team that intends to buy it when he settles up with the county.
The County hired a consultant who went out and inspected the place and drew up all kinds of BluePrints and required changes. I'm in Construction and as a favor to Burton I went down in October 2004 and spent 3 days at his ZOO in NJ reviewing the Plans and Reccomendations. I went all through his Place.. The Giraffe Cages, Ostrich's, Coyotes, Hyeana's.. Monkeys of every kind. It was a really wild experience. I enjoyed it. But The point is .. Burton is out of the Zoo Business. He's 100% focused on Training and racing T-breds.

[Doc]

I am good friends with Bocachica's former agent here at Philly Park and when he was ruled off it was my understanding that the only two tracks he could race at were Charles Town and Suffolk. Matter of fact, my friend the agent briefly contemplated moving up to New England but decided against it. Next time I see him I'll ask, but apparently these two tracks aren't obligated to honor rulings emanating from other racing jurisdictions. Remember Kendrick Carmouche? He got ruled off at Philly for having "relations" with a minor and now he's riding at Charles Town. Sipp was re-licensed in Pennsylvania but Philly Park wouldn't give him stalls.

[Zaf]

and ata slew is entered for Saturday


I see 10-1 on the Morning Line. What do you guys think ?

Jarrod , Suff ???

ZAFONIC

[Suff]

I see 10-1 on the Morning Line. What do you guys think ?

Jarrod , Suff ???

ZAFONIC

THe Horse has run in him Daryl. NO Doubt. I watched his effort at MNR a couple of weeks ago and was disapointed. He needs to be on or near the lead. He got out poorly and was never in it. I'm assuming the condition is the same? Open 5000? He was 8-1 ML that night. Ran poor.. and the fact he comes back at 10-1 makes me think he's caught a weaker field. I'd look the race over and give alot of weight to Post Position and How much speed is signed on. If You think he can get rolling early.. I'd advise you to take a shot with him.. in the Win Pool, and underneath in some exactas. I would'nt say it, just to say it. The Horse has race in him. He likes to race.. has some speed, and has some balls in the lane.

Good luck

[John]

Z, I don't play the mountain so I realy don't care. But, ATA SLEW has always been liked by SUFF and others connected to the barn. I woud handicap the race first and then decide if he is worth a wagger. or if you will only bet at 5-1 Play him to place you could get that price in the 2nd slot.

whatever you do ....Good Luck.

John

[Zaf]

Thanks Guys, will take a look.

ZAFONIC

[Zaf]

Suff,

You were right. The hoss gave a damn strong effort tonight but again he had tough racing luck.

ATA SLEW brushed leaving the gate, was sent hard to contest the pace, battled head and head through the turn, extended for more in a wide drive, responded willingly while outfinished.


With a little better luck he would of been home at 16-1 !

ZAFONIC

[Suff]

Suff,

You were right. The hoss gave a damn strong effort tonight but again he had tough racing luck.

!

ZAFONIC


Too bad. 3rd at 16-1, $8.40 on the end. $1200 dollar tri under a 2-1 and 5-1. Hate to see that because the secrets out now and not likely you'll get another crack at him when he will get you $35 bucks in the winners circle.

I have a couple of more I like from that Barn and I'll drop them on you when they're entered.

I believe Mountaineer is oversubscribing races now. And those with Stalls on the grounds get preference. He's got 19 stalls down the street and I'm tempted to think he's having trouble getting his MONSTERS in the races he wants to spot them in. We'll keep an eye on things.

[Buddha]

Special Offer is in for Tuesday. I think that was one that you said could run Suff. Only problem is he is in a nw4l allowance, and is 2L eligible. As to the oversubscribing races, a lot of it has to do with the cancellations. Any horse that was entered on a cancelled day has preference over all other horses.

[Suff]

Special Offer is in for Tuesday. preference over all other horses.

I just Pulled down the card to give him a Look. I think he's in with a Nice shot at a Healthy Number.

Heres the Trifecta for the 8th on Tuesday..

Stacies Ballado, Unbridled Mate and Special Offer. I can't give you the exact order.. but those are the 3. Box um up. or if one scratchs... Use Freedom Counts as the alternate.

Like Babe Ruth who pointed to the outfield.. I'm pointing to the Trifecta Pool! There it is. Start counting your winnings.! :D

[Suff]

I wanted to give you guys a heads up about one of Sipps Horses in tonight.

The 3rd race. Pull Over Please.

This horse has serious gas. Real speed. I'd prefer to see him going 5 and a 1/2, but he's going 6. But none the less he can win this.

He's got bowed tendons.. and he won't run if its too wet. If he's fresh, he'll run well.

When the suffok meet was ending and Jockeys were competing for Titles and awards they all were all vying to get this one.

[Zaf]

Thanks Suff !

ZAFONIC

[IRISHLADSTABLE]

Thanks Mike

Jimmy

[Buddha]

The track will be wet, just a matter of how wet it is. I liked him a little, and another horse I like in that race is Watch and Wager. Speith comes to run, and can outride more than half the jocks at Mountaineer.

[betchatoo]

Thanks for the tip. For any interested Pull Over Please is the top rated J horse and hits 2 of my UDM's

[Buddha]

and another horse I like in that race is Watch and Wager.
Watch and Wager won at a price of $8.60

[Turfday]

I have his complete history dating back to Jan. 1, 1995. He has started 405 horses since then. Oddly enough, according to my Equibase database, all 405 starter have been since Feb. 1, 2002.

If any of you are really interested, I can send you a word.doc of every stat and angle you can probably can think of regarding Burton Sipp and his starters.

If you are, e-mail me at: turfday@aol.com.

[mfactor]

He has 50 stalls at Golden Gate Fields....think he's buddies with the Racing Secretary?

[Zaf]

I think No Cal really needs the horses.

Z

[mfactor]

I think No Cal really needs the horses.


Z

Good point but this guy?

[Zaf]

They are desperate to increase stock & field size up there.

Z

[Shenanigans]

Just like Thistledown is. This clown has/had a string at that track. I have never seen more poorer looking stock in my entired life. If a person would claim anything from him all they'd have to do to move the poor animal up is add about 200 pounds to it. They all looked like they were near starving.

[jotb]

I am good friends with Bocachica's former agent here at Philly Park and when he was ruled off it was my understanding that the only two tracks he could race at were Charles Town and Suffolk. Matter of fact, my friend the agent briefly contemplated moving up to New England but decided against it. Next time I see him I'll ask, but apparently these two tracks aren't obligated to honor rulings emanating from other racing jurisdictions. Remember Kendrick Carmouche? He got ruled off at Philly for having "relations" with a minor and now he's riding at Charles Town. Sipp was re-licensed in Pennsylvania but Philly Park wouldn't give him stalls.

Hello Doc:

Kendrick Carmouche was based out of CT 2 years ago but now he is stationed in Del. and will ride at just about every track when the work is there. The Carmouche that is at CT now is his brother Slyvester. By the way, Bocachica can horseback regardless of plugging in horses.

Joe

[INFRONT07]

good post;you know your stuff;along with stuff:)

[INFRONT07]

good post:jump:

[advancedcapper]

Used to be a top guy at old Keystone park. Now Philadelphia Park. His fortay..........Claiming horses and DROPPING them in class. Has been around for about 3 years now. Got banned, i believe for doing some things detrimental to the sport. The one thing I do know is is plays to win and has a high percentage when the smoke clears. You are right. Watch him closely. His horse often outrun their odds.

ac

[jma]

Sipp hasn't had a good winning percentage at any point in his "comeback". As someone else posted, maybe he doesn't have the money to actually feed his stock. I'd avoid him, especially in northern California against guys like Hollendorfer, Sherman, and Miyadi. Cody Autrey couldn't do anything in CA either, and he had a lot more going for him than a clown like Sipp.

[advancedcapper]

Winning races and having horse outrun their odds are two different things. I prefer a guy with 4 wins out of 50 that has horses outrunning their odds to a guy like Pletcher who sends out undervalued 2 yo's. As for his horses being starving, i do not know. Sipp runs at two tracks i do not bet nor frequent. Of the handful of races i saw him entered in, his horses did run well. I am onoly drawing from his old Keystone Park days.

ac.

[eastie]

When he was leading trainer at suffolk about 30 years ago. He had Steve Pagano as his contract bug boy. He even got the 3 pound bug allowance after his bug was up. His main M.O. was that he would buy all broken down former class horses, usually from California and try to get them sound enough to run again. He always had a ton of horse but his winning percentage was never too good because he ran so many horses so many times. Usually evry week. He did do a brief stint here (suf) a cuople of years ago with very moderate success. I don't think you would want him to be training you if you were a horse though.

[advancedcapper]

I remember his Keystone Park days and he was very good then. Second only to the famous Lasiter/Vance combo which was better than Pletcher is right now with no comparison. They dominated the standing every year by far. Burton Sipp led the meet for the entire 1981 season with 25 winter meet winners, 54 spring meet winners and 48 fall meet winners, so he does know how to train.

ac

[eastie]

[QUOTE=McSchell_Racing]Suffolk Downs is the armpit of all racing as far as Im concerned!Lots of crooks and very creepy people.

I know this was posted 3 years ago, but...are you kidding me. Who do you think you are ? I'm sure there's no crooked people at Calder right ? None of those jockeys ever get together and do races either right ? Gimme a break

[advancedcapper]

I do know one thing. If you are a successful handicapper, Suffolk will humble you. I think the trackis 50% snad and 50% salt. They run 6f in 1:17+ somethimes. There is no rhyme or reason in the results.

HOWEVER...........And this is a BIG money-maker. If you see the results of the races being run in a normal time. You know, like 6f in 1:12- 1:13, BET BIG. They don't seem to realize that those plodders that win the S-L-O-W races have no chance.

Other than that, I to stay away from Suffolk, but not for anything other than my pocket.

ac

[BombsAway Bob]

I wonder if Burton is bringing his 'house' jock, Anne Marie Sanguinetti, out west with him?
One story I heard about Sipp was, at one time, he was selling "Exotic" animals, & was caught trying to sell a Giraffe to two people at the same time; they weren't happy! Too bizarro not to have validity to it!

[CryingForTheHorses]

[QUOTE=McSchell_Racing]Suffolk Downs is the armpit of all racing as far as Im concerned!Lots of crooks and very creepy people.

I know this was posted 3 years ago, but...are you kidding me. Who do you think you are ? I'm sure there's no crooked people at Calder right ? None of those jockeys ever get together and do races either right ? Gimme a break


Geeze this isnt related to the topic of this thread...Im entitled to my opinion,Just like you are yours..

[eastie]

I am neither a crook or a very creepy person..

[CryingForTheHorses]

I am neither a crook or a very creepy person..

I very sorry if you are offended..Look me up if you ever come to SFlorida and Ill buy you a beer :)

[John]

[QUOTE
HOWEVER...........And this is a BIG money-maker. If you see the results of the races being run in a normal time. You know, like 6f in 1:12- 1:13, BET BIG. They don't seem to realize that those plodders that win the S-L-O-W races have no chance.

Advancehandicapper, I don't understand. Are you saying if a horse wins in 1:12 you should bet him back. Pleae explain.

:) :) :)

[eastie]

I very sorry if you are offended..Look me up if you ever come to SFlorida and Ill buy you a beer :)

haven't had a beer in 1690 days, but if you make it a cuban sandwich, That would be cool. I remember how good a bass ale used to taste after not having one for 3 or 4 days. I can only imagine how good one would be now. It used to great filling the coofin cooler with a couple of cases for a nice afternoon at Saratoga. They don't let bottles in anymore, which would have made me very unhappy, but I'm sure I would have figured out something.

[Doc]

Burton Sipp has more rulings against him in various states then you can imagine. He was barred in Pennsylvania for a very long time for killing horses for insurance money ... then he won his reinstatement but Philly Park wouldn't let him stable on the grounds, so he's taken his act on the road. He used to own a pet shop/zoo near Jobstown, NJ called "Animal Kingdom," and even running that place he ran into trouble when some exotic animals died under mysterious circumstances. One of Sipp's main veterinarians during the time when he was conducting his insurance scam was Lenny Patrick, who created some headlines of his own when he was involved in the very cruel killing of a horse named Oblige at Philly Park about 8 or 9 years ago and was barred. I think Patrick re-surfaced a few years ago as the vet for Mike Gill in Florida ... remember the horse who had his leg amputated after he was euthanized, and they tried saying it was for testing purposes? Anyway, bottom line, Sipp is interested in money first, the horse second, and while you may be able to cash some bets on his runners, keep what I've just written in mind when you go to the windows.

Burton Sipp: :ThmbDown:

[advancedcapper]

I remember the insurance thing now. Whereas he is a nuisance to the sport, he does factor in to a race or two that I may bet, so i have to put personal feeling aside when wagering. Sort of like the excessive whipping thing. I hate it, but I can't change it and I'd be a fool to NOT BET either Burton Sipp or an idiot jockey just because they do dumb things.

I will however give a mean scowl if I ever run into these creeps. They really should be run out of the sport, but like you say, money is money, even to the tracks, I suppose.

Sad, if you think about it, though.

ac

[jma]

I remember the insurance thing now. Whereas he is a nuisance to the sport, he does factor in to a race or two that I may bet, so i have to put personal feeling aside when wagering. Sort of like the excessive whipping thing. I hate it, but I can't change it and I'd be a fool to NOT BET either Burton Sipp or an idiot jockey just because they do dumb things.

I will however give a mean scowl if I ever run into these creeps. They really should be run out of the sport, but like you say, money is money, even to the tracks, I suppose.

Sad, if you think about it, though.

ac

I hear ya about having to bet unethical, stupid people now and then, no argument there. However, when was the last time Sipp moved up a horse? Maybe when he was hooked up with that vet. Since then he's bounced around from one questionable job to another. In this case, he stands no chance with the northern CA sharpies, so we should avoid betting him until he shows otherwise.

[advancedcapper]

He is there, so you have to look. bad deal huh?

ac

[Assistant]

The blood draw is to determine the red cells the higher the count the more oxygen in the body which means better performance. Sipp is a god horseman and does know his stuff.

[BombsAway Bob]

Burton has recently popped a few prices @ Turf Paradise...
But where's Anne-Marie??:confused:

[Learned Hand35]

http://www.phillyburbs.com/owner-of-pet-store-zoo-killed-in-blaze/article_5a28ec8a-64b0-11e0-a0b1-001a4bcf6878.html