WSOP $10K MAIN EVENT

[v j stauffer]

I've decided to play the WSOP 10k Main Event starting a week from Tuesday July 7th.

Entry fee in. Hotel reserved. Plane tickets bought.

I'm going to wear a PaceAdvantage hat and patch.

If anyone would like to take a % of the action. PM me and you're in.

I contacted PA. He advised that you MUST PM.

I'm willing to take on partners for up to 50% of the entry.

As I said it's already paid for so if ya want to tag along. C'mon!

[lamboguy]

do you have any background in being a good tournament player?

[BIGTKLO]

Best Of Luck Big Daddy, what an awesome tourney.

[theiman]

Best of Luck. I hope you get some "Straights that are Strong"

[Dark Horse]

Good luck Vic. Hope you make the final table.

[chenoa]

What was your placing in that Seniors tournament you said you were paid and entered in at the Rio a couple weeks back????

[Trips]

Which day 1 session are you in? Will keep an eye out for a tall fellow wearing a PA hat.

[charm city whizz]

Good luck Vic rooting for you.....hope you saw through the scumbags that are in this thing just take it hour by hour

[v j stauffer]

do you have any background in being a good tournament player?

Have played and won many tournaments. But for MUCH smaller stakes. Really have no idea what to expect here.

I love the fact the rounds are 120 minutes and the starting chip stack 30,000. Certainly think that lends for a truer text of a person's overall ability.

One huge concern is it seems rare that older people make it deep into the tourney.

I hear the days are grueling mentally and physically giving the 20 something's an advantage. Personally I expect that advantage is often pharmaceutically enhanced.

I feel very very confident I'll be able to keep focus for what I hope will be a long grind. However, until I've experienced it I'll never know.

Can I win? Sure! Someone is going to.

One thing I'm sure of is I won't crap out by making an impulsive, emotional mistake. The moment won't be too big of me. I don't and won't tilt no matter what.

So many people say they play just to see what that experience is like. F that. I'm playing to win the thing.

Really looking forward.

[v j stauffer]

What was your placing in that Seniors tournament you said you were paid and entered in at the Rio a couple weeks back????

I went out on the first day. Couldn't really get anything going. Then read a guy for a bluff and was wrong. Probably looked at that hand more like a cash game than long tournament.

Have to remember that early in these BIG tournaments people are mortified of going out early and tighten up dramatically.

Expect to try to use that opinion to my advantage this time around.

[v j stauffer]

Which day 1 session are you in? Will keep an eye out for a tall fellow wearing a PA hat.

Not set in stone but likely to be Tuesday July 7th.

[v j stauffer]

Best Of Luck Big Daddy, what an awesome tourney.

Thanks TC. Sounding great.

[przytula]

Really have no idea what to expect here.
I've played the ME before. The best advice I can give you is to be patient. This tournament is a marathon, not a sprint.

Good luck.

[Stillriledup]

Thanks TC. Sounding great.

Good luck out there Vic, have fun, enjoy the experience and of course, bring back the cash!

[PaceAdvantage]

I'm going to wear a PaceAdvantage hat and patch.Say what? :lol:

That's awesome...just curious where you got both? There hasn't been a hat in ages, and I know nothing about a patch...

[przytula]

That's awesome...just curious where you got both?
Haven't you heard about the underground PA apparel counterfeiting conglomerate?

[v j stauffer]

I've played the ME before. The best advice I can give you is to be patient. This tournament is a marathon, not a sprint.

Good luck.

Good advice. Solidifies what I've been thinking. You can lose it on day 1 or 2 but you cannot win it.

How old are you? How long did you last? What was the fatigue factor like?

[v j stauffer]

Say what? :lol:

That's awesome...just curious where you got both? There hasn't been a hat in ages, and I know nothing about a patch...

I didn't say I had it. I said I intended to wear it. Get to work!!! :lol:

Better be careful. If an interloper from Derby Trail reads this and comes with a stack. Maybe Steve himself. It'll be DT in millions of homes when I roll out for the November 9.

Just sayin.

[098poi]

Best of luck! Watch the alcohol/coffee, whatever. Too much of either could bring that grind to a halt.

[JustRalph]

Say what? :lol:

That's awesome...just curious where you got both? There hasn't been a hat in ages, and I know nothing about a patch...

Did you forget about this one?

[przytula]

Good advice. Solidifies what I've been thinking. You can lose it on day 1 or 2 but you cannot win it.

How old are you? How long did you last? What was the fatigue factor like?
I'm 43, but I played in the 2008 ME (I think). I didn't last past the first day so I can't really comment on the fatigue factor. But for most people, the sheer spectacle of being at the WSOP is enough to get them through the day without much issue. If you were to last 3 or 4 days, then you might start to feel the effects.

Some other advice:


It is extremely cold in the Rio. So make sure to bring a backpack with a sweat-jacket, some healthy snacks, water, imodium for possible nerves or bad food, and anything else you think you might want or need. If you get cold easily, don't even think about wearing shorts.


Scope out the bathrooms before hand. It gets crazy during the breaks and it's usually a long walk. Search for ones that are off the beaten path (people are lazy) or consider sacrificing a couple of hands and go during play.


If you have a smart phone or tablet, make sure to google everyone at your table to find out who is a pro and who isn't. I guarantee that the pros are doing the same with you.


Don't ever try bluffing a non-pro. They are bad for bluffing but good for extracting chips from when you get a good hand.


Pros are going to try to push you around. Try to send a message early that there are easier targets at the table. Once they get burnt by over-aggressive play, they will usually leave you alone and pick on someone else.


One of the best things you can do for your game between now and then is to play around with starting hands and board textures to gain a stronger understanding of equities. Propokertools.com is a good website for this.


Plenty of people go very deep in this tournament without ever putting their entire stack at risk. Don't feel you have to. But if you have to, don't be afraid to do it.


I was eventually booted out of the tourney on two gut-wrenching bad beats. It took a three-outer and a one-outer to send me home. Be mentally prepared for a heart-breaking beat and understand going in that it's just part of the game.


Finally, have fun. Only one person can win so prepare yourself mentally for your eventual demise. Go in promising yourself that regardless of what happens, you're not going to play the "what-if" game. Stew for a few hours, get it out of your system, and then enjoy the rest of your time in Vegas.


Hope this helps :)

[v j stauffer]

I'm 43, but I played in the 2008 ME (I think). I didn't last past the first day so I can't really comment on the fatigue factor. But for most people, the sheer spectacle of being at the WSOP is enough to get them through the day without much issue. If you were to last 3 or 4 days, then you might start to feel the effects.

Some other advice:


It is extremely cold in the Rio. So make sure to bring a backpack with a sweat-jacket, some healthy snacks, water, imodium for possible nerves or bad food, and anything else you think you might want or need. If you get cold easily, don't even think about wearing shorts.


Scope out the bathrooms before hand. It gets crazy during the breaks and it's usually a long walk. Search for ones that are off the beaten path (people are lazy) or consider sacrificing a couple of hands and go during play.


If you have a smart phone or tablet, make sure to google everyone at your table to find out who is a pro and who isn't. I guarantee that the pros are doing the same with you.


Don't ever try bluffing a non-pro. They are bad for bluffing but good for extracting chips from when you get a good hand.


Pros are going to try to push you around. Try to send a message early that there are easier targets at the table. Once they get burnt by over-aggressive play, they will usually leave you alone and pick on someone else.


One of the best things you can do for your game between now and then is to play around with starting hands and board textures to gain a stronger understanding of equities. Propokertools.com is a good website for this.


Plenty of people go very deep in this tournament without ever putting their entire stack at risk. Don't feel you have to. But if you have to, don't be afraid to do it.


I was eventually booted out of the tourney on two gut-wrenching bad beats. It took a three-outer and a one-outer to send me home. Be mentally prepared for a heart-breaking beat and understand going in that it's just part of the game.


Finally, have fun. Only one person can win so prepare yourself mentally for your eventual demise. Go in promising yourself that regardless of what happens, you're not going to play the "what-if" game. Stew for a few hours, get it out of your system, and then enjoy the rest of your time in Vegas.


Hope this helps :)

Helps? That's putting it mildly. What a gracious, thoughtful and appreciated post.

Thank you so much.

C'mon PA'ers I want some more partners. One of our brethren is onboard with a percentage.

Won't say who or how much.

Now with PRYZTULA'S amazing advice I say I'm ready to take down the $10 million.

Let's GO!!! :jump:

[Stillriledup]

Wow Przy, that's an incredible post, i really enjoyed reading that. Good stuff.

[PaceAdvantage]

Did you forget about this one?No, that's the one I had in mind...and that's why I said there hasn't been a hat in ages!! :lol:

[whodoyoulike]

Isn't there a company which advertises placing logos on hats, t-shirts and mugs etc.?

Would there be a problem if v j stauffer did this?

I would think he would have to receive permission. Their name escapes me at the moment.

[JustRalph]

I made the one in the pic above at a LIDS store.

They have an online site too. They have stores in malls.

[przytula]

The WSOP has added rules in recent years to limit/restrict logo use. I'm pretty sure they have banned logos from hats. Moreover, I think I remember reading somewhere that logos on shirts have to be a certain size.

I'd look into it.

[thespaah]

Have played and won many tournaments. But for MUCH smaller stakes. Really have no idea what to expect here.

I love the fact the rounds are 120 minutes and the starting chip stack 30,000. Certainly think that lends for a truer text of a person's overall ability.

One huge concern is it seems rare that older people make it deep into the tourney.

I hear the days are grueling mentally and physically giving the 20 something's an advantage. Personally I expect that advantage is often pharmaceutically enhanced.

I feel very very confident I'll be able to keep focus for what I hope will be a long grind. However, until I've experienced it I'll never know.

Can I win? Sure! Someone is going to.

One thing I'm sure of is I won't crap out by making an impulsive, emotional mistake. The moment won't be too big of me. I don't and won't tilt no matter what.

So many people say they play just to see what that experience is like. F that. I'm playing to win the thing.

Really looking forward.
Good luck and play well.
And thanks for bringing us, the members of PA into the event.

[davew]

The structure will be much 'slower' than any you have ever seen before.

a similar thread on 2+2 (biggest poker forum)
-> any advice for first time entrant into WSOP Main Event?

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29/news-views-gossip-sponsored-online-poker-report/any-advice-first-time-entrant-into-wsop-main-event-1541879/

[davew]

forgot to mention that the reason most of the high finishers are young is because of the long hour grind -

it may be a good idea to practice some long days in low limit cash for 12 hours - say from 1pm to 1am, and then see if you can do it the next day

many mention that it is hard to get to sleep and start again the next day (after concentrating or focusing for so many hours, the different sleeping arrangement, and high temperatures outside in LV)

[v j stauffer]

forgot to mention that the reason most of the high finishers are young is because of the long hour grind -

it may be a good idea to practice some long days in low limit cash for 12 hours - say from 1pm to 1am, and then see if you can do it the next day

many mention that it is hard to get to sleep and start again the next day (after concentrating or focusing for so many hours, the different sleeping arrangement, and high temperatures outside in LV)

Very solid points. I always stay at the Mirage and as much as possible feel somewhat comfortable there.

I've certainly run hands over and over in my head while sleeping after a long session. I've found Ambien solves that problem.

Not going to be easy. Wish I was 30 years younger. But that applies to a lot more than a poker tournament.

[Stillriledup]

Very solid points. I always stay at the Mirage and as much as possible feel somewhat comfortable there.

I've certainly run hands over and over in my head while sleeping after a long session. I've found Ambien solves that problem.

Not going to be easy. Wish I was 30 years younger. But that applies to a lot more than a poker tournament.

If you're hitting the wall tired wise, just pretend you are Lava Man the original rags to riches. Visualize him coming down to the wire, refusing to lose, refusing to go away and digging down deep.

YESSSSSS!!!!

That's my favorite all time call of yours. :ThmbUp:

[przytula]

forgot to mention that the reason most of the high finishers are young is because of the long hour grind
I have to politely disagree. Young players = internet players. Your typical internet player logs hundreds of thousands of hands per year and also studies the game. They are more aggressive, more experienced, more informed, more educated, and are simply better players.

Doyle Brunson has played professionally for over 50 years. But he's a live player. Live poker averages about 30 hands per hour. Lets say that Doyle played 40 hours per week for the 50 years he's been a professional. That's a little over 3 million hands lifetime.

To make Supernova Elite playing 1/2 on Stars, you'd need to play about 2 million hands in one year.

Moreover, the ratio of players under 40 is likely much higher than players over 40. That reason alone would skew the numbers.

Of course, since Black Friday hit the poker world, there are a lot less online poker players in the US. But many of the serious online players that I know from pre-Black Friday still make their way back to the WSOP to play.

As far as the long days, any reasonable healthy person should be able to handle the hours. It's important to eat well at all times, keep hydrated at the table, and stretch regularly at the table. IMO, the reason people can't sleep is because they are so excited and jacked-up about playing. For most poker players, the ME is like Christmas to a 5-year-old.

:)

[v j stauffer]

The BIG day is rapidly nearing. So much so I'm starting to consider nuts and bolts strategy for the entire operation.

Here's one idea.

Yours would be greatly appreciated as well


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPOFl80hclU

[_______]

Vic-

I have never gone myself but play with guys who go to Las Vegas exclusivly to play in ring games at the Rio during WSOP.

This is second hand and I'm not sure how truthful they are with themselves but I beat them regularly and they say they can't lose in the ring games with the tourists playing.

The fact that they have disappeared from the game I play for the last month suggests they are probably doing okay.

I won't suggest you try this if you exit early because, as we all know, you're headed to the final table. But if you're there early enough, maybe you can supplement your winnings and knock any rust off your game.

[thaskalos]

Vic-

I have never gone myself but play with guys who go to Las Vegas exclusivly to play in ring games at the Rio during WSOP.

This is second hand and I'm not sure how truthful they are with themselves but I beat them regularly and they say they can't lose in the ring games with the tourists playing.

The fact that they have disappeared from the game I play for the last month suggests they are probably doing okay.

I won't suggest you try this if you exit early because, as we all know, you're headed to the final table. But if you're there early enough, maybe you can supplement your winnings and knock any rust off your game.

Or...maybe they went BROKE in Vegas...and can't even afford the LOCAL game.

[ManU918]

Did you satellite in?

[ReplayRandall]

Did you satellite in?

Let's see now.......Vic started the thread by making this statement:

"I've decided to play the WSOP 10k Main Event starting a week from Tuesday July 7th. Entry fee in. Hotel reserved. Plane tickets bought."

Does that sound like someone who won a satellite?.....Your question is inappropriate.

[ManU918]

Let's see now.......Vic started the thread by making this statement:

"I've decided to play the WSOP 10k Main Event starting a week from Tuesday July 7th. Entry fee in. Hotel reserved. Plane tickets bought."

Does that sound like someone who won a satellite?.....Your question is inappropriate.

Inappropriate? It doesn't say he just decided to play the day of the post. It says he decided to play. That could of been last week or last month. Most players who have under $4,000 in tournament poker earnings usually wont pull $10,000 cash out to play in the main event. Not inappropriate... Logical thinking. You should try it sometime.

[ReplayRandall]

Inappropriate? It doesn't say he just decided to play the day of the post. It says he decided to play. That could of been last week or last month. Most players who have under $4,000 in tournament poker earnings usually wont pull $10,000 cash out to play in the main event. Not inappropriate... Logical thinking. You should try it sometime.

Don't insult my intelligence, youngster......Vic has integrity and would have stated up front he was in on a satellite, and would've then offered more % to each investor, rather than a straight percentage, which any honest player does when they pay $10K retail. Thus your post was inappropriate AND your reply was pure Brit BS.......No wonder, we as a country, declared our independence from the likes of you.

[v j stauffer]

If you're hitting the wall tired wise, just pretend you are Lava Man the original rags to riches. Visualize him coming down to the wire, refusing to lose, refusing to go away and digging down deep.

YESSSSSS!!!!

That's my favorite all time call of yours. :ThmbUp:

Doug O'neill was in a bar in Ireland listening to that call on the phone. Great memories. Great Horse!!

[v j stauffer]

Did you satellite in?

No. I didn't play in any satellites. If I had qualified that way all this would be a totally different dynamic.

For the 1st time in 35 years I'm not working at some track during this time of year.

I have always wanted to take a shot at the WSOP main event.

I can afford the 10k buy in. I offered shares because I thought it might be a kick for friends to follow along.

Many have responded. Including two from here on PA.

It's turned out now that I'll have half the action and Team Vic the other half. $5 million each works for me.

All starts Tues. at noon at the RIO.

Let's get lucky.

[przytula]

Have fun and run good!

:)

[proximity]

Have fun and run good!

:)

this and of course report back here on pa!! :)

[ManU918]

Don't insult my intelligence, youngster......Vic has integrity and would have stated up front he was in on a satellite, and would've then offered more % to each investor, rather than a straight percentage, which any honest player does when they pay $10K retail. Thus your post was inappropriate AND your reply was pure Brit BS.......No wonder, we as a country, declared our independence from the likes of you.

It's obvious to me that you don't know the first thing about poker staking. Staking is not based on how one finds his/her way into the tournament its based on past poker success. Not one player on this earth would offer shares at a negative markup. Even if someone did win a satellite the lowest you will see is even. Go across the street where there is an entire section dedicated to poker staking or just go to tastystakes.com and the lowest you will find is $1/$1.

Insult your intelligence, youngster, Brit? Its pretty obvious you have zero intelligence when it comes to this subject. You've exposed yourself to that with your idiotic posts. Also, I have met posters like Proximity at my local poker room in the States so your age and brit comments hold no weight. Good try buddy.

[ReplayRandall]

It's obvious to me that you don't know the first thing about poker staking. Staking is not based on how one finds his/her way into the tournament its based on past poker success. Not one player on this earth would offer shares at a negative markup. Even if someone did win a satellite the lowest you will see is even. Go across the street where there is an entire section dedicated to poker staking or just go to tastystakes.com and the lowest you will find is $1/$1.

Insult your intelligence, youngster, Brit? Its pretty obvious you have zero intelligence when it comes to this subject. You've exposed yourself to that with your idiotic posts. Also, I have met posters like Proximity at my local poker room in the States so your age and brit comments hold no weight. Good try buddy.

Crushing reply Sport, I played in '94-WSOP when you were 10.......Vic's post #42 says it all......You haven't a clue what you're talking about.. :bang:

[ManU918]

Crushing reply Sport, I played in '94-WSOP when you were 10.......Vic's post #42 says it all......You haven't a clue what you're talking about.. :bang:

Wrong again on the age but nice try there genius. Vic's post says nothing outside of the fact that he is fulfilling a lifelong dream. Given that the pre-registration ended a week before Vic started this thread he could of easily satellited in. Unfortunately for him he didn't.

[ReplayRandall]

Wrong again on the age but nice try there genius. Vic's post says nothing outside of the fact that he is fulfilling a lifelong dream. Given that the pre-registration ended a week before Vic started this thread he could of easily satellited in. Unfortunately for him he didn't.

So you lie here at PA when you signed up- Birthday: March 4th, 1984?.......Putting you on IGNORE, where you belong.

[ManU918]

So you lie here at PA when you signed up- Birthday: March 4th, 1984?.......Putting you on IGNORE, where you belong.

That would make me 11 at the time of the 94 WSOP Main Event.... 1st grade arithmetic.

[ReplayRandall]

That would make me 11 at the time of the 94 WSOP Main Event.... 1st grade arithmetic.

Congrats on failing 1st Grade....What a moron.. :lol: :lol:

[ManU918]

Congrats on failing 1st Grade....What a moron.. :lol: :lol:

Failing 1st grade? Here you go making things up again...You got caught trying to be funny thinking you know my age and where I'm from and you were wrong about everything. Now your trying to twist everything around. Carry on with your nonsense in other threads. I asked Vic a legit question and you come at me like your some sort of authority here. Looking up my birthday... Are you serious? And you're supposedly the older one here? Get a life bro.

[v j stauffer]

Failing 1st grade? Here you go making things up again...You got caught trying to be funny thinking you know my age and where I'm from and you were wrong about everything. Now your trying to twist everything around. Carry on with your nonsense in other threads. I asked Vic a legit question and you come at me like your some sort of authority here. Looking up my birthday... Are you serious? And you're supposedly the older one here? Get a life bro.

Guys. Evidently I was mistaken but I actually thought I started a thread that was immune to acrimony.

The beginning, middle and end of all of this has been based on fun and sharing.

C'MON

[davew]

I have to politely disagree. Young players = internet players. Your typical internet player logs hundreds of thousands of hands per year and also studies the game. They are more aggressive, more experienced, more informed, more educated, and are simply better players.


:)

There is more to doing well in big live tournaments than having a few million hands a year on the internet background.

Good Luck and have fun Vic :ThmbUp:

[Stillriledup]

Doug O'neill was in a bar in Ireland listening to that call on the phone. Great memories. Great Horse!!

TmZESOuFBEc

Great (and long) on Lava Man, something to watch in case you're wired and can't sleep.

Let Lady Luck smile on you, go get em!!

[PaceAdvantage]

I go away for a few days and this is what happens?

Replay Randall...what are you...a total dick or just a part-timer?

Any further juvenile posts in this thread (after my own here...lol) will be deleted and noted on your permanent record.

[ReplayRandall]

I go away for a few days and this is what happens?

Replay Randall...what are you...a total dick or just a part-timer?

Any further juvenile posts in this thread (after my own here...lol) will be deleted and noted on your permanent record.

Guilty as charged, I'm a part-time dickhead. It happens about once every six months.......Not bad considering the depth of stupidity I encounter from time to time from other full-time dickheads... :cool:

[garyscpa]

Good luck tomorrow, Vic. The other days, too.

[_______]

Here:

http://www.wsop.com/tournaments/chipcounts.asp?grid=1136&tid=14268

Vic will be under day 1c to start.

[MutuelClerk]

I have a stake in a friend of mine. He offers two packages. One, the Main Event you pay 200.00 for 1%. The other was a 300.00 package. He played in a bunch of tourneys a few weeks ago and is back playing in one right now. I'm following on twitter. My friend has a bracelet and I believe two other final tables and just over 1,000,000 in wsop earnings. The 300.00 package we are going to make a small profit on. Here's wishing good luck to him and Vic in the Main Event. Run well, play well.

[MutuelClerk]

Oops, 968,148 in earnings. Just looked him up.

[przytula]

I have a stake in a friend of mine. He offers two packages. One, the Main Event you pay 200.00 for 1%.
Jinkies, Scoobie. That's a 100% markup. :eek:

[ManU918]

Jinkies, Scoobie. That's a 100% markup. :eek:

Absolutely absurd.

[theiman]

Here:

http://www.wsop.com/tournaments/chipcounts.asp?grid=1136&tid=14268

Vic will be under day 1c to start.

Vic S probably lost one or two hands (blinds) so far.

#134 United States Victor Stauffer 29,600 -400 San Anselmo, CA USA

[tucker6]

I see Vic is breathing down Phil Ivey's neck. Phil at #103, and Vic is at #216 in their pool.

[v j stauffer]

I see Vic is breathing down Phil Ivey's neck. Phil at #103, and Vic is at #216 in their pool.

I crapped out on the 3rd level.

Here are the two hands that lead to my demise.

Tell me what you think.

1st. Had about 25k in chips. Opponent started hand with about 40k.Blinds 150-300. Guy just after the big blind makes it $600. I raise to $1200 with pocket 10's. All fold back to him. He raises to $3700. I call. Flop comes 2-3-5 two spades. I have the 10 of spades. He checks. I bet $6000. He raises to 18k. I thought about it for a good long while and folded. Didn't seem likely he had 55, 66, 77, 88 or 99. Certainly seemed like we was representing a very big pocket pair. Didn't want to call off my chips in the Main Event. Didn't think he was bluffing. If he loses pot he's crippled too.

2nd. Hand I went out on. I'm 2 before the button. Have about 14k. I have pocket Aces. Blinds still 150-300. Early position raises to $700. I raise to $1700. Big blind calls $1400 strange. 1st raiser thinks for about a minute and calls. Flop comes Q-J-2 rainbow. 1st guy bets $2000. I raise to $6000. Big blind folds. 1st guy puts in enough to put me all in. If I fold I'll have about $6500 left. I don't fold because I'm 100% sure I know what he has. I'm very sure he has A-Q. I call and he turns over pocket deuces for a set of 2's. No ace on the turn or the river. Thanks for playing. Drive home safely. Of course I should have folded the aces and lived to try to scratch back with $6500.

What do you guys think about those two hands?

I had a lot of fun. One thing I learned for sure is, as a poker player, I make a very good horse handicapper.

Will definitely try again next year.

[barn32]

I crapped out on the 3rd level.

1st. Had about 25k in chips. Opponent started hand with about 40k.Blinds 150-300. Guy just after the big blind makes it $600. I raise to $1200 with pocket 10's. All fold back to him. He raises to $3700. I call.Fold.

[thaskalos]

I crapped out on the 3rd level.

Here are the two hands that lead to my demise.

Tell me what you think.

1st. Had about 25k in chips. Opponent started hand with about 40k.Blinds 150-300. Guy just after the big blind makes it $600. I raise to $1200 with pocket 10's. All fold back to him. He raises to $3700. I call. Flop comes 2-3-5 two spades. I have the 10 of spades. He checks. I bet $6000. He raises to 18k. I thought about it for a good long while and folded. Didn't seem likely he had 55, 66, 77, 88 or 99. Certainly seemed like we was representing a very big pocket pair. Didn't want to call off my chips in the Main Event. Didn't think he was bluffing. If he loses pot he's crippled too.

2nd. Hand I went out on. I'm 2 before the button. Have about 14k. I have pocket Aces. Blinds still 150-300. Early position raises to $700. I raise to $1700. Big blind calls $1400 strange. 1st raiser thinks for about a minute and calls. Flop comes Q-J-2 rainbow. 1st guy bets $2000. I raise to $6000. Big blind folds. 1st guy puts in enough to put me all in. If I fold I'll have about $6500 left. I don't fold because I'm 100% sure I know what he has. I'm very sure he has A-Q. I call and he turns over pocket deuces for a set of 2's. No ace on the turn or the river. Thanks for playing. Drive home safely. Of course I should have folded the aces and lived to try to scratch back with $6500.

What do you guys think about those two hands?

I had a lot of fun. One thing I learned for sure is, as a poker player, I make a very good horse handicapper.

Will definitely try again next year.

What was your position relative to the blinds in the hand where you held the pocket 10s, Vic? Pocket 10s is a shaky holding if you were close to the blinds yourself...especially with a raiser in front of you. Another question I have has to do with the table image of the early raiser, as well as your OWN playing style at the table. Was the early raiser the tricky sort of player who would check on the flop...after having gone over the top of your re-raise on the earlier round of betting? The reason I ask about your OWN playing style at that table is because, if you were playing very conservatively and only raising with premium hands...he may have felt that you had missed the flop since it consisted of only low cards, and decided to push you around. In any case...if I were you, I wouldn't have bet after his check on the flop. With $21,000 in front of me at that blind level, I would have checked right along...and see what he did on the turn.

The next hand with the pocket aces was the type of hand that we all dread. It would have knocked me out too...although I would have raised to $2,800 preflop...instead of the $1,700 that you put out there. $1,000 is a small raise in that spot, IMO. And...since he thought hard about calling the additional $1,000...he may have folded if he had to call $2,100.

[proximity]

The next hand with the pocket aces was the type of hand that we all dread. It would have knocked me out too...although I would have raised to $2,800 preflop...instead of the $1,700 that you put out there. $1,000 is a small raise in that spot, IMO. And...since he thought hard about calling the additional $1,000...he may have folded if he had to call $2,100.

tournaments are not my bailiwick, but something like this.

with your stack starting to get low and your tournament life on the line definitely raise more here and make the villain make a clear pre flop mistake.

overall though congratulations on competing and thank you for sharing your experience!!

[davew]

were many at the table 4 betting like the first hand? Did you see that person do that before? Would they bet like that with A4 suited (maybe spades) ?

second hand you started with about 45 big blinds- when that player donk bet 2K into you, I would have been thinking 2 pair or set possible. I would have tried to remember if they had bet that way ever before. I probably would have just called flop, and see what happened turn - folding if they 'pot' sized bet.

How many nights did you reserve your room for?
Glad to see you had enough fun to want to do it again.

[DeltaLover]

2nd. Hand I went out on. I'm 2 before the button. Have about 14k. I have pocket Aces. Blinds still 150-300. Early position raises to $700. I raise to $1700. Big blind calls $1400 strange. 1st raiser thinks for about a minute and calls. Flop comes Q-J-2 rainbow. 1st guy bets $2000. I raise to $6000. Big blind folds. 1st guy puts in enough to put me all in. If I fold I'll have about $6500 left. I don't fold because I'm 100% sure I know what he has. I'm very sure he has A-Q. I call and he turns over pocket deuces for a set of 2's.

You need to alter your way of thinking here...

Since you already have 2 aces and one Queen is on the board, there are exactly 6 AQ hands that villain can hold at this point.

At this spot, I think you can safely assume that he does not hold an underpair and given his aggression he probably has a made hand which can be one of the following:

AA ...... 1 combo
KK 6 combos
QQ 3
JJ 3
22 3
AQ 6
JQ 9

All together there are 31 combos
Out of them we win with 12 (KK and AQ) and loose with 18 and break even with 1
At this spot we are a 3 - 2 dog to loose.. We will lose three times for each two that we are winning...

Pretty tough call, especially when playing on a tournament that losing an all in means you are automatically out (Live game might be a bit different, given implied odds, table image etc)

[ManU918]

Tell me what you think.

1st. Had about 25k in chips. Opponent started hand with about 40k.Blinds 150-300. Guy just after the big blind makes it $600. I raise to $1200 with pocket 10's. All fold back to him. He raises to $3700. I call. Flop comes 2-3-5 two spades. I have the 10 of spades. He checks. I bet $6000. He raises to 18k. I thought about it for a good long while and folded. Didn't seem likely he had 55, 66, 77, 88 or 99. Certainly seemed like we was representing a very big pocket pair. Didn't want to call off my chips in the Main Event. Didn't think he was bluffing. If he loses pot he's crippled too.



What do you guys think about those two hands?



So let me just replay this back in my head...
UTG min-raises to $600
In MP you 4-bet it to $1200 with 10's
It folds around to UTG who 5-bets to $3700
You call... Total pot $7850
Flop comes 2-3-5 two spades
UTG checks
You bet $6000
UTG Pops it to $18,000
You fold


The first mistake was only 4-betting it from $600 to $1200. With 10's in MP I'm probably making it $2,000 there. At $1200 the min-raiser isn't going anywhere even if in the odd position he has junk which is very rare given he is UTG. Also, $2000 will scare away the remaining players in the hand who want to play their suited connectors, low pairs, etc. Thankfully for you your $1200 bet got through.

Now it folds around to UTG and it's balls in the mouth time as he 5-bets you to $3700. This is when as a player I go into the tank for a reasonable amount of time. He min-raised UTG, I re-raised but barely to only $1200 which doesn't seem strong at all from MP with a big hand. $1200 is only 4x the big blind at this stage... Some people are going to 3-bet it to $1200 at this level. Now this is when you have to put a plan together.

Here are the options:

- You've just been 5 bet to $3700 from UTG position who initially min-raised. Fold and leave yourself with $23,800 (79BBs) (My recommendation)

The second mistake was calling a pre-flop 5bet without a plan.

- If you call, what exactly are you putting your opponent on? If you think he has a higher pair you would've already folded but clearly you don't. If we've made it to this point you're putting your opponent on a drawing hand and need to come up with a post-flop plan.

1) If the flop is wet and he bets you fold.
2) If the flop is wet and he checks you check behind. We've already established that you're in this hand because you believe he has a big drawing hand. It's not worth C-betting here because he is just going to re-raise you and you will fold.
3) If you think he misses the flop and checks, you bet and take the hand down.
4) If you think he misses the flop and checks, you bet and if he re-raises you jam on him.

Flop comes 2-3-5 with two spades.

Because you came to the conclusion pre-flop that he did not have a bigger pair hence the 5-bet call, you just landed a dream flop. So now that you've already established a post-flop plan pre-flop. You know exactly what you're going to do here.

He checks, You bet an odd amount of $6,000 (but whatever because he doesn't have a higher PP) into a pot of $7850, he check-raises you to $18,000 and you fold.

Unfortunately you didn't go through with it. There was no reason to call a pre-flop 5bet to fold on a flop of 5 high. This flop never hits an UTG pre-flop 5bet.

Even if he has the best drawing hand in this scenario given the pre-flop action, AK of spades, you're still winning the hand and have 40% equity. If he whiffs the turn you have 60% equity.

The third mistake you made was "not wanting to call off your chips in the Main Event" and underestimating your opponents stack had he lost an all-in to you. Had you gone all-in and this gentleman called and lost... He would be far from crippled (as you stated). He would of been left with a stack of 50 BBs. In a tournament where the levels last 2 hours and ante's still weren't in the game, he would of been just fine.

[przytula]

In MP you 4-bet it to $1200 with 10's
3-bet.

[ManU918]

3-bet.

Exactly right to late to edit.... but you get the gist of what I was trying to say.

[ReplayRandall]

I crapped out on the 3rd level.

Here are the two hands that lead to my demise.

Tell me what you think.

1st. Had about 25k in chips. Opponent started hand with about 40k.Blinds 150-300.

Don't shortchange yourself Vic, you made it to Level 4:

7/7/2015 8:21:00 PM PST

Level 4 Started

Level 4 Blinds: 150/300 Ante: 25

[v j stauffer]

So let me just replay this back in my head...
UTG min-raises to $600
In MP you 4-bet it to $1200 with 10's
It folds around to UTG who 5-bets to $3700
You call... Total pot $7850
Flop comes 2-3-5 two spades
UTG checks
You bet $6000
UTG Pops it to $18,000
You fold


The first mistake was only 4-betting it from $600 to $1200. With 10's in MP I'm probably making it $2,000 there. At $1200 the min-raiser isn't going anywhere even if in the odd position he has junk which is very rare given he is UTG. Also, $2000 will scare away the remaining players in the hand who want to play their suited connectors, low pairs, etc. Thankfully for you your $1200 bet got through.

Now it folds around to UTG and it's balls in the mouth time as he 5-bets you to $3700. This is when as a player I go into the tank for a reasonable amount of time. He min-raised UTG, I re-raised but barely to only $1200 which doesn't seem strong at all from MP with a big hand. $1200 is only 4x the big blind at this stage... Some people are going to 3-bet it to $1200 at this level. Now this is when you have to put a plan together.

Here are the options:

- You've just been 5 bet to $3700 from UTG position who initially min-raised. Fold and leave yourself with $23,800 (79BBs) (My recommendation)

The second mistake was calling a pre-flop 5bet without a plan.

- If you call, what exactly are you putting your opponent on? If you think he has a higher pair you would've already folded but clearly you don't. If we've made it to this point you're putting your opponent on a drawing hand and need to come up with a post-flop plan.

1) If the flop is wet and he bets you fold.
2) If the flop is wet and he checks you check behind. We've already established that you're in this hand because you believe he has a big drawing hand. It's not worth C-betting here because he is just going to re-raise you and you will fold.
3) If you think he misses the flop and checks, you bet and take the hand down.
4) If you think he misses the flop and checks, you bet and if he re-raises you jam on him.

Flop comes 2-3-5 with two spades.

Because you came to the conclusion pre-flop that he did not have a bigger pair hence the 5-bet call, you just landed a dream flop. So now that you've already established a post-flop plan pre-flop. You know exactly what you're going to do here.

He checks, You bet an odd amount of $6,000 (but whatever because he doesn't have a higher PP) into a pot of $7850, he check-raises you to $18,000 and you fold.

Unfortunately you didn't go through with it. There was no reason to call a pre-flop 5bet to fold on a flop of 5 high. This flop never hits an UTG pre-flop 5bet.

Even if he has the best drawing hand in this scenario given the pre-flop action, AK of spades, you're still winning the hand and have 40% equity. If he whiffs the turn you have 60% equity.

The third mistake you made was "not wanting to call off your chips in the Main Event" and underestimating your opponents stack had he lost an all-in to you. Had you gone all-in and this gentleman called and lost... He would be far from crippled (as you stated). He would of been left with a stack of 50 BBs. In a tournament where the levels last 2 hours and ante's still weren't in the game, he would of been just fine.

I have alot to learn. Thanks for a great breakdown. What do you think he was holding?

[ManU918]

I have alot to learn. Thanks for a great breakdown. What do you think he was holding?

AA or KK

[thaskalos]

AA or KK
Why did he check on the flop...when this flop showed both straight AND flush possibilities? He went over the top of Vic's pre-flop reraise...and them he CHECKED the flop? Is that how YOU would have played AA or KK at that point?

[przytula]

Why did he check on the flop...when this flop showed both straight AND flush possibilities? He went over the top of Vic's pre-flop reraise...and them he CHECKED the flop? Is that how YOU would have played AA or KK at that point?
Given the action pre-flop, straight and flushes wouldn't be a factor on the flop. Unless Vic was being a complete maniac up to this point and opening way too many hands (which I doubt he was), it's pretty clear that both players have high pocket pairs. Vic's range is more open than Villains and could also include AK.

A big error less experienced poker players make is making decisions based on how they would play a particular hand. One of the keys is to figure out how your opponent thinks and make decisions based on that. The simple fact that Villain was UTG and min-raised to open the action tells me immediately that he is a poor player.

ManU918 is correct. His range is pretty much Kings or Aces with a heavy weight towards Aces. Villain check-raised the flop for the same reasons he min-raised and then 4-bet Hero pre-flop... He's a poor player who likes to be "tricky" and poor players do strange things.

Vic, don't sweat it. If you want to get better, there's a ton or resources out there to help you along in your journey. A person can improve a ton in just one year. :)

[thaskalos]

Given the action pre-flop, straight and flushes wouldn't be a factor on the flop. Unless Vic was being a complete maniac up to this point and opening way too many hands (which I doubt he was), it's pretty clear that both players have high pocket pairs. Vic's range is more open than Villains and could also include AK.

A big error less experienced poker players make is making decisions based on how they would play a particular hand. One of the keys is to figure out how your opponent thinks and make decisions based on that. The simple fact that Villain was UTG and min-raised to open the action tells me immediately that he is a poor player.

ManU918 is correct. His range is pretty much Kings or Aces with a heavy weight towards Aces. Villain check-raised the flop for the same reasons he min-raised and then 4-bet Hero pre-flop... He's a poor player who likes to be "tricky" and poor players do strange things.

Vic, don't sweat it. If you want to get better, there's a ton or resources out there to help you along in your journey. A person can improve a ton in just one year. :)

True...poor players do strange things. That's why I asked in a prior post if this player had been observed making any OTHER "strange" plays at that table. It's also possible that this wasn't a poor player...but was an OBSERVANT player, who had noticed something "strange" about VIC'S style of play.

Vic was right to fold, of course...and shouldn't have even raised preflop, IMO. He was definitely wrong in betting the flop once the original raiser checked, as far as I am concerned. A check after a preflop reraise has to raise a flag there...

[przytula]

It's also possible that this wasn't a poor player...but was an OBSERVANT player, who had noticed something "strange" about VIC'S style of play.
I don't think so. A good player would never min-raise from UTG. :)

[ManU918]

Why did he check on the flop...when this flop showed both straight AND flush possibilities? He went over the top of Vic's pre-flop reraise...and them he CHECKED the flop? Is that how YOU would have played AA or KK at that point?

Straight possibility? Really Thask? The preflop action leads you to believe if your UTG, Vic in MP could be holding A-4 or 4-6? No one in that spot is 3betting with either of those hands and then calling a 4bet in that spot for $3700. That flop missed everything in that scenario. Could Vic be holding AKss? I guess but not if this guy has an A or K of s in his hand.

He checked the flop to induce a cbet and barrel over top of Vic and take the pot. My guess is that UTG probably ranged Vic from 99-JJ and instead of leading out for 4 or 5K (which if he did I'm sure at that point Vic would of called and seen another card) he decided to check and let Vic bet given his range possibilities and not allow Vic to get there on the turn. If Vic checks behind the guy would of been kicking himself but he ranged properly and knew on a dry board that Vic would cbet.

[ManU918]

The simple fact that Villain was UTG and min-raised to open the action tells me immediately that he is a poor player.

Not true at all. It's a pretty popular move these days especially when it comes to experienced/well known pro's on the circuit. It's a way for them to open a lot of hands without giving away any information.

[thaskalos]

Straight possibility? Really Thask? The preflop action leads you to believe if your UTG, Vic in MP could be holding A-4 or 4-6? No one in that spot is 3betting with either of those hands and then calling a 4bet in that spot for $3700. That flop missed everything in that scenario. Could Vic be holding AKss? I guess but not if this guy has an A or K of s in his hand.

He checked the flop to induce a cbet and barrel over top of Vic and take the pot. My guess is that UTG probably ranged Vic from 99-JJ and instead of leading out for 4 or 5K (which if he did I'm sure at that point Vic would of called and seen another card) he decided to check and let Vic bet given his range possibilities and not allow Vic to get there on the turn. If Vic checks behind the guy would of been kicking himself but he ranged properly and knew on a dry board that Vic would cbet.

You say that "No one would do" this or that...when the reality is that people break us with bone-headed plays all the time. Look at the hand that bounced Vic out of the tournament. The guy who knocked him out called a RE-RAISE preflop, while UTG...with pocket deuces. Hardly a conventional play...in ANYBODY'S book.

Come to think of it...the guy probably WAS a bad player. There is little chance that a good player checks the flop after showing such strength preflop. A good player would have been afraid of getting no action there...

[ManU918]

You say that "No one would do" this or that...when the reality is that people break us with bone-headed plays all the time. Look at the hand that bounced Vic out of the tournament. The guy who knocked him out called a RE-RAISE preflop, while UTG...with pocket deuces. Hardly a conventional play...in ANYBODY'S book.

Come to think of it...the guy probably WAS a bad player. There is little chance that a good player checks the flop after showing such strength preflop. A good player would have been afraid of getting no action there...

If this was level 3 then they are over 4 hours into the game. UTG has already put together a profile for Vic. There are definitely players that would raise in MP with air and call a 4 bet with air but those are the type of players who are jamming on the flop to a check. I don't think Vic plays like a loose cannon nor do I think he gave that impression in the early levels of play. I obviously wasn't there but his chip stack indicates that Vic was playing pretty conservatively.

I think you're mixing up who played the hand bad here. Vic (No offense) is the one who called the bet pre, bet to a check and then folded to a raise. Remember UTG won the hand and scooped a pot that had $9700 of Vic's chips in it. Although you might not think UTG played the hand right, Vic played right into his trap.

A good player knows that sometimes the ABC way of playing a hand isn't always the correct way. As you know players have to change given the table they are present at. In hindsight the guy played the hand perfect. I don't know how you can argue with that. He maximized his profit.

[thaskalos]

If this was level 3 then they are over 4 hours into the game. UTG has already put together a profile for Vic. There are definitely players that would raise in MP with air and call a 4 bet with air but those are the type of players who are jamming on the flop to a check. I don't think Vic plays like a loose cannon nor do I think he gave that impression in the early levels of play. I obviously wasn't there but his chip stack indicates that Vic was playing pretty conservatively.

I think you're mixing up who played the hand bad here. Vic (No offense) is the one who called the bet pre, bet to a check and then folded to a raise. Remember UTG won the hand and scooped a pot that had $9700 of Vic's chips in it. Although you might not think UTG played the hand right, Vic played right into his trap.

A good player knows that sometimes the ABC way of playing a hand isn't always the correct way. As you know players have to change given the table they are present at. In hindsight the guy played the hand perfect. I don't know how you can argue with that. He maximized his profit.

"In hindsight", yes. But, even though the game is often contemplated in hindsight...it must be played going FORWARD, in REAL time. When you check a flop of that nature after reraising pre-flop...then that raises a warning flag, and the possibility of you getting action on the flop becomes minimal. The hand gives the impression that it was played "perfectly" by the original raiser, only because Vic greatly overplayed his hand there...both preflop, AND on the flop...in MY opinion at least.

A guy raises UTG preflop, and I hold pocket 10s...with players behind me yet to act. I want a multi-way pot, and I want to see the flop cheaply...to try and hit my set. A raise there from me eliminates the chance of a multi-way pot, AND it opens up the possibility of a reraise...making it costly for me to see the flop.

Now...I see the costly flop, and the re-raiser checks to me. What is he telling me...that my 10s are now scaring him off? He raised the blinds the minimum...and I RERAISED him almost the minimum. Does he really expect me to give him action at this point...with my medium pair? What have I done so far to show him that my hand deserves a bet there, after his checking to me?

BOTH the players played the hand badly...IMO. It's just that Vic's play proved much more damaging in this instance...and this gives the impression that the other guy played his hand "perfectly". You would have a different opinion of the "perfection" of the other guy's play, if Vic checked the flop right behind him...and then hit a 10 on the turn. Then you would say that it was VIC who played the hand "perfectly". :)

[proximity]

You say that "No one would do" this or that...when the reality is that people break us with bone-headed plays all the time. Look at the hand that bounced Vic out of the tournament. The guy who knocked him out called a RE-RAISE preflop, while UTG...with pocket deuces. Hardly a conventional play...in ANYBODY'S book.


:confused:

there's 4200 in the pot and 12k stacks. it's 1000 back to the guy.

[thaskalos]

:confused:

there's 4200 in the pot and 12k stacks. it's 1000 back to the guy.
I already said in a prior post that Vic's near-minimum raise with pocket aces was a mistake there. But still...when the blinds are only 150/300, and you got a decent stack, you can afford to wait for a better spot, and you don't raise and then call reraises UTG...with pocket deuces. The raiser has position over you, for heaven's sake. What does the guy with the two deuces do if he misses the flop...which probability says that he will?

Why make things difficult for ourselves...when the situation doesn't call for it? There is a time for super-aggressive play...but this was not that time.

[proximity]

I already said in a prior post that Vic's near-minimum raise with pocket aces was a mistake there. But still...when the blinds are only 150/300, and you got a decent stack, you can afford to wait for a better spot, and you don't raise and then call reraises UTG...with pocket deuces. The raiser has position over you, for heaven's sake. What does the guy with the two deuces do if he misses the flop...which probability says that he will?

Why make things difficult for ourselves...when the situation doesn't call for it? There is a time for super-aggressive play...but this was not that time.

he can check and fold when he misses but i'm saying that for 1000 he's priced in and can't fault him for his play of "Hollywood and call" at that point.

[proximity]

off topic from us analyzing these hands to death but it would have been nice to see vic at a feature table. he would be great for one of those espn spotlights. they could have shown some Hollywood history, vic's calls, lifestyle,..... would still probably be a good 30-30 (?) for espn to do...

[JimmyQ]

off topic from us analyzing these hands to death but it would have been nice to see vic at a feature table. he would be great for one of those espn spotlights. they could have shown some Hollywood history, vic's calls, lifestyle,..... would still probably be a good 30-30 (?) for espn to do...

I hope you're not being serious...a 30/30 episode? Do you want ESPN to discontinue the series..if so go ahead and do a 30/30 on Vic...it will be off the air within weeks

[JimmyQ]

I hope you're not being serious...a 30/30 episode? Do you want ESPN to discontinue the series..if so go ahead and do a 30/30 on Vic...it will be off the air within weeks

I apologize as I think I spoke incorrectly in the above post. It would be off the air within hours

[ManU918]

off topic from us analyzing these hands to death but it would have been nice to see vic at a feature table. he would be great for one of those espn spotlights. they could have shown some Hollywood history, vic's calls, lifestyle,..... would still probably be a good 30-30 (?) for espn to do...

These days you have to make it to Day 2 for any chance of TV coverage. ESPN no longer records on Day 1.

30 for 30? Come on bro... That sounds like something someone would create themselves and post on Youtube for self-promotion. Certainly not something ESPN is going to use resources on. Just to put it in perspective, ESPN has aired 72 episodes of 30 for 30... 1 of them has been about horse racing (Charismatic).

[v j stauffer]

Can't tell you guys how much I appreciate all the discussion and advice. I know this for sure. I was out-manned and out played. I could have had a huge run of lucky cards and still ultimately got bounced. It took playing there to fully realize how far I have to go to compete with a real chance. Some of the opinions you guys bounced back and forth were things I never even knew to consider.

I'll be more ready when I go back. Which I will do.

Earlier you guys said there are lot's of resources for improving.

I'd love any and all suggestions you might have.

Thanks

[proximity]

These days you have to make it to Day 2 for any chance of TV coverage. ESPN no longer records on Day 1.

30 for 30? Come on bro... That sounds like something someone would create themselves and post on Youtube for self-promotion. Certainly not something ESPN is going to use resources on. Just to put it in perspective, ESPN has aired 72 episodes of 30 for 30... 1 of them has been about horse racing (Charismatic).

for the 30 for 30 I meant the rise and fall of Hollywood itself (which I think is a lot bigger than charismatic) and not two whole hours on vic himself. if he was at a feature table though I still maintain that he would've been a good subject for one of the shorter player features they do.

[sammy the sage]

he can check and fold when he misses but i'm saying that for 1000 he's priced in and can't fault him for his play of "Hollywood and call" at that point.

correct...I would have done the same...

[przytula]

Earlier you guys said there are lot's of resources for improving.

I'd love any and all suggestions you might have.
I work for CardRunners so I'm a bit biased. But it's probably the best bang for your buck at $30/month. We offer a free 7-day trial and cover everything from cash games to SNGs to MTTs.

https://www.cardrunners.com/

It's mostly online content but there's some live as well. But it translates over for the most part. What's important is learning how to think about the game and improving your decision making.

It's probably going to seem a bit overwhelming at first with all the lingo and such. But just stick with it.

:)

[thaskalos]

I work for CardRunners so I'm a bit biased.


Are Caby and Wiggins as good as people say? :)

[ManU918]

I'd love any and all suggestions you might have.

Thanks

What books have you read/live streams of WSOP final table bracelet events have you watched with pros doing the commentary? It will be a lot easier to recommend stuff to you once I know what I can cross off the list.

[thaskalos]

These two books are a must:

http://www.amazon.com/Harrington-Modern-Tournament-Poker-Dan/dp/1880685566/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1436579147&sr=1-2&keywords=tournament+poker

http://www.amazon.com/Raisers-Edge-Tournament-Poker-Strategies-Aggressive/dp/193539648X/ref=sr_1_8?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1436579147&sr=1-8&keywords=tournament+poker

[v j stauffer]

What books have you read/live streams of WSOP final table bracelet events have you watched with pros doing the commentary? It will be a lot easier to recommend stuff to you once I know what I can cross off the list.

The only book I read was the one written by Dan Harrington. I can't remember the name.

I've watched all the big tourneys and listened closely to all the analysts and commentator's.

IMO the guy that explains things in a fashion that resonates best with me is Tony Dunst. I feel comfortable with his presentation.

[ManU918]

The only book I read was the one written by Dan Harrington. I can't remember the name.

I've watched all the big tourneys and listened closely to all the analysts and commentator's.

IMO the guy that explains things in a fashion that resonates best with me is Tony Dunst. I feel comfortable with his presentation.

I'm not talking about televised WPT events. I'm talking about live internet streams of WSOP bracelet final table events where they show every single hand.

[davew]

cancelled my cardrunners after about a year - too much free content available that I deem just as good.

twitch has a few good streamers (Sommerville, Boyd, ...)
, and then youtube of past ME sections/episodes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyeEr0LLAxU

Hille having deep run last year is interesting

it always helps when you get hit with the deck at the appropriate times

[tucker6]

One of my personal favorites, Dan Nagreanu, is making his way up the leaderboard. Has fought all day and resides in 34th place at the moment. Down to last 111 players.

[ReplayRandall]

Currently in 4th at the dinner break is Brian Hastings, with almost 4 mil in chips. Talk about being on fire, he's already won 2 bracelets this WSOP and finished 64th last year in the ME, also won the 10K Heads-up title in 2012:

http://www.wsop.com/players/playerprofile.asp?playerID=90986

[ManU918]

cancelled my cardrunners after about a year - too much free content available that I deem just as good.

twitch has a few good streamers (Sommerville, Boyd, ...)
, and then youtube of past ME sections/episodes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyeEr0LLAxU

Hille having deep run last year is interesting

it always helps when you get hit with the deck at the appropriate
times

A few things...Hille's deep run came in 2012 not last year. A video of someone getting hit with the deck does no good for someone who is looking to improve their play. A monkey can get hit with the deck and make a deep run. Since the 2012 Main Event (Her first ever live cash), Hille has only averaged cashing 18K per year.

Anything that Norman Chad and Lon McEachern do is edited by ESPN and for entertainment purposes only. It doesn't teach you anything nor is it meant to.

If you want to learn start watching each final table that shows every hand and all of the hole cards. When Pro's get in the booth with David Tuchman and talk about what they would do in situations and what the players at the table might be thinking is really incredible at times. You learn a lot.

Here is the first video from this years Millionaire maker final table. I highly suggest you watch the entire thing. I believe it totals to be about 8 hours.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fw_z_BQ3LEM

[sammy the sage]

One of my personal favorites, Dan Nagreanu, is making his way up the leaderboard. Has fought all day and resides in 34th place at the moment. Down to last 111 players.

knocked out the "Brat"...awesome...

[ReplayRandall]

7/13/2015 7:47:18 PM PST (about 17 minutes ago)

Final Four Tables


With 36 players remaining, the 2015 Main Event has been reduced to the final four tables. Here's how the room will be laid out when the field returns for Level 29 after the dinner break:

Main Table
Seat 1: Justin Schwartz - 5,355,000 (54 bb)
Seat 2: James Magner - 1,830,000 (18 bb)
Seat 3: Wasim Ahmar - 2,245,000 (22 bb)
Seat 4: Daniel Negreanu - 6,480,000 (65 bb)
Seat 5: Thomas Cannuli - 7,870,000 (79 bb)
Seat 6: George McDonald - 1,945,000 (19 bb)
Seat 7: Neil Blumenfield - 1,305,000 (13 bb)
Seat 8: Jake Toole - 3,540,000 (35 bb)
Seat 9: Max Steinberg - 5,330,000 (53 bb)

Table 2
Seat 1: David Peters - 4,615,000 (46 bb)
Seat 2: Ronald McGinnity - 3,655,000 (37 bb)
Seat 3: Chad Power - 3,190,000 (32 bb)
Seat 4: Blake Bohn - 2,475,000 (25 bb)
Seat 5: Thomas Kearney - 5,585,000 (56 bb)
Seat 6: Zvi Stern - 15,035,000 (150 bb)
Seat 7: Randall Clinger - 1,830,000 (18 bb)
Seat 8: Matt Guan - 9,215,000 (92 bb)
Seat 9: Hans Joaquim Hein - 4,920,000 (49 bb)

Table 3
Seat 1: Joshua Beckley - 2,480,000 (25 bb)
Seat 2: Chun Law - 2,700,000 (27 bb)
Seat 3: Patrick Chan - 7,900,000 (79 bb)
Seat 4: Fedor Holz - 5,875,000 (59 bb)
Seat 5: Andrew Moreno - 3,640,000 (36 bb)
Seat 6: Joe McKeehen - 9,025,000 (90 bb)
Seat 7: Kilian Kramer - 3,325,000 (33 bb)
Seat 8: Pierre Neuville - 6,350,000 (64 bb)
Seat 9: Erasmus Morfe - 9,835,000 (98 bb)

Table 4
Seat 1: Upeshka De Silva - 2,330,000 (23 bb)
Seat 2: David Stefanski - 8,700,000 (87 bb)
Seat 3: Christoph Brand - 2,885,000 (29 bb)
Seat 4: Mario Sequeira - 8,785,000 (88 bb)
Seat 5: Anton Morgenstern - 8,825,000 (88 bb)
Seat 6: Federico Butteroni - 1,795,000 (18 bb)
Seat 7: Kelly Minkin - 8,275,000 (83 bb)
Seat 8: Alexander Turyansky - 3,845,000 (38 bb)
Seat 9: John Allan Hinds - 10,960,000 (110 bb)

[ManU918]

Pulling for the following 9 in no order.

Negreanu for obvious reasons...

Pierre Neuville... 72 years old

Joe Mckeehen who I happen to know pretty well... East coast tournament crusher. Made a deep run in the Monster stack last year for $800K... Has a very super aggro style.

Justin Schwartz is a sicko who once was broke and flew from Connecticut to Georgia to race someone to finish a bottle of Jack for 10K... Fast forward halfway through this and he shows up in a white limo... Classic shit...
https://f.vimeocdn.com/p/flash/moogaloop/6.1.7/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=3056132&controller=player2&view=moogaloop_swf&referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fforumserver.twoplustwo.com%2 F29%2Fnews-views-gossip-sponsored-online-poker-report%2Fjustin-schwartz-where-he-now-519022%2F&cdn_url=http%3A%2F%2Ff.vimeocdn.com&player_url=player.vimeo.com&moogaloop_type=moogaloop

Now he currently has a $100,000 freeze out planned with Negreanu where if he loses he has to cut down to a certain body fat and attend some life development classes.

Kelly Minkin... Smart young attorney who could become the first female November 9er

Max Steinberg almost $2 million in live earnings but satellited into the main event via Draft Kings... would be huge for the sponsor

Mozheg Guan... True amateur ... Only 3 live cashes to his name

Mario Sequeira... Another amateur with only a few cashes

Joshua Beckley... Another local east coast grinder...

[tucker6]

Pulling for the following 9 in no order.

Negreanu ... sitting in 9th

Pierre Neuville... sitting in 15th

Joe Mckeehen... sitting in 4th

Justin Schwartz... sitting in 10th

Kelly Minkin... out of tourney. Finished 29th.

Max Steinberg... sitting in 24th

Mozheg Guan... sitting in 2nd

Mario Sequeira... sitting in 5th

Joshua Beckley... sitting in 22nd

down to last 27 for day six. Made comments in your post. Odds are that 3 of your choices make the final table. I'm thinking Nagreanu, Guan, and Schwartz.

[tucker6]

Brutal bad beat for Schwartz as he places 14th. Goes all in with nearly $10M as he flops a set of 3's. The chip leader calls his all-in as he flopped a set of 6's. Schwartz was walking away before the river was shown.

Meanwhile, Negreanu is on life support with only $2.3M in chips while the chip leader has ~$43M.

[v j stauffer]

Brutal bad beat for Schwartz as he places 14th. Goes all in with nearly $10M as he flops a set of 3's. The chip leader calls his all-in as he flopped a set of 6's. Schwartz was walking away before the river was shown.

Meanwhile, Negreanu is on life support with only $2.3M in chips while the chip leader has ~$43M.

That's not a bad beat.

[proximity]

That's not a bad beat.

idk, i wouldn't bet against him in a jack daniels race tonight.... ;)

[tucker6]

That's not a bad beat.
Odds of losing when flopping a set and going all in is probably no higher than 1% or so. Technically you are probably correct, but as Proximity says, I wouldn't have entered a Jack Daniels contest against him.

[davew]

The final table going into November has both a 61 and 72 year old.

[ManU918]

The final table going into November has both a 61 and 72 year old.

I'm really curious to what the rule book says about a November 9er dying/unable to play the final table... 3 plus months in between... Unfortunately it's going to happen sooner or later.

[tucker6]

I'm really curious to what the rule book says about a November 9er dying/unable to play the final table... 3 plus months in between... Unfortunately it's going to happen sooner or later.
Heirs and partners get 9th place money I would think. What else could they do? His/her chips come off the table and the 8 remaining players play with whatever they had.

From 2008: https://www.creators.com/health/lucky-dog-poker/reader-raises-legal-issues-of-wsop-final-table-delay.html

[ManU918]

Heirs and partners get 9th place money I would think. What else could they do? His/her chips come off the table and the 8 remaining players play with whatever they had.

From 2008: https://www.creators.com/health/lucky-dog-poker/reader-raises-legal-issues-of-wsop-final-table-delay.html

They all get 9th place money after day 7... They don't have to wait until November to get that.... Then unfortunately for the person who gets 9th leaves with nothing in November. I guess the chips would just get blinded out come time to finish the tournament and if in the case someone gets ousted before the deceased person the heirs would collect whatever money is owed? Who knows...

[tucker6]

They all get 9th place money after day 7... They don't have to wait until November to get that.... Then unfortunately for the person who gets 9th leaves with nothing in November. I guess the chips would just get blinded out come time to finish the tournament and if in the case someone gets ousted before the deceased person the heirs would collect whatever money is owed? Who knows...
you'd think they would have a rule in place by now for this eventuality. Even if not dead, hospitalization, etc will occur at some point.

[tucker6]

They all get 9th place money after day 7... They don't have to wait until November to get that.... Then unfortunately for the person who gets 9th leaves with nothing in November. I guess the chips would just get blinded out come time to finish the tournament and if in the case someone gets ousted before the deceased person the heirs would collect whatever money is owed? Who knows...
Thinking about it further, I agree with you. The chips would get blinded out until they are gone. If the missing player ends up in 7th, then the heirs/partners get the extra dollars. I guess to be consistent when a player is late to a table, it must be done this way. Whether you are late or dead, you aren't sitting behind your stack, and your chips will be anted at every blind for you until gone.

[davew]

an article on the oldest man

http://www.cardplayer.com/poker-news/19078-72-year-old-belgian-vying-for-world-series-of-poker-main-event-final-table

[TJDave]

Justin Schwartz is a sicko who once was broke and flew from Connecticut to Georgia to race someone to finish a bottle of Jack for 10K... Fast forward halfway through this and he shows up in a white limo... Classic shit...


This guy sounds like Stuey Ungar reincarnated. :lol:

[thaskalos]

an article on the oldest man

http://www.cardplayer.com/poker-news/19078-72-year-old-belgian-vying-for-world-series-of-poker-main-event-final-table
He is an inspiration to the rest of us "old poker players". :ThmbUp:

[therussmeister]

Thinking about it further, I agree with you. The chips would get blinded out until they are gone. If the missing player ends up in 7th, then the heirs/partners get the extra dollars. I guess to be consistent when a player is late to a table, it must be done this way. Whether you are late or dead, you aren't sitting behind your stack, and your chips will be anted at every blind for you until gone.
If they knew for certain someone isn't going to show, they should pick up his chips, as it gives a significant advantage to the player on the empty chair's right. He effectively gets the button twice every orbit.

[davew]

If they knew for certain someone isn't going to show, they should pick up his chips, as it gives a significant advantage to the player on the empty chair's right. He effectively gets the button twice every orbit.


Yes, but there will be war going after those blinds - the other players are not going to watch them all go to one person... even if they have the dealer button.

[davew]

Vic, do you plan on entering the main event again? or was this something on your bucket list that got crossed off?


I watched an interesting short documentary on Jacobson winning the 2014 main event - rather motivating - 17 hrs on first day of final table..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJuAd3yT0YQ

[ManU918]

If anyone here wants a sweat, someone across the street at 2+2 gave me Mckeehen at 3/1.. He is +180 at the books..

[Canarsie]

Vic, do you plan on entering the main event again? or was this something on your bucket list that got crossed off?


I watched an interesting short documentary on Jacobson winning the 2014 main event - rather motivating - 17 hrs on first day of final table..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJuAd3yT0YQ

Thanks for the link can't wait to watch it. Tell me if I'm wrong but playing 17 hours probably means lots of checking going on. This is almost never shown on tv people think players are shoving or three and four betting almost every hand. I would bet it took a long time to go from ten to the final table of nine this year.

[ManU918]

Thanks for the link can't wait to watch it. Tell me if I'm wrong but playing 17 hours probably means lots of checking going on. This is almost never shown on tv people think players are shoving or three and four betting almost every hand. I would bet it took a long time to go from ten to the final table of nine this year.

22 hands from 10 to 9.

[ReplayRandall]

November 9 has started now on ESPN. Hole-cards of active hands are being shown, as there's a 30 minute delay to make telecast appear live......Enjoy.

[sammy the sage]

some damn good bluffs 1st 3 hours....good stuff....they NEED a TIME clock tho...surely hurts ratings w/the SLOW HOLLYWOOD playing...

[proximity]

If anyone here wants a sweat, someone across the street at 2+2 gave me Mckeehen at 3/1.. He is +180 at the books..

hopefully he busts stern.... soon. :sleeping:

[ReplayRandall]

They're down to 5 players now, over on ESPN2.....

[ManU918]

hopefully he busts stern.... soon. :sleeping:

Mckeehen with 67% of the chips going into the final day.

[no breathalyzer]

i'm rooting for the old man pops

[Red Knave]

i'm rooting for the old man pops
Blumenfield is younger than me so I'm not sure if I should root for him ;).
I liked Neuville but I sensed that he would exit early.
I also liked Canulli and it broke my heart to see his aces get cracked. Steinberg seems so classy and I'm glad Stern is gone.
McKeehen looks like he will be hard to collar.

[ManU918]

If anyone here wants a sweat, someone across the street at 2+2 gave me Mckeehen at 3/1.. He is +180 at the books..

SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIP IIIIIT!!!!!!!

[davew]

an interesting article on tax bite from final table

http://www.taxabletalk.com/2015/11/10/the-real-winners-of-the-world-series-of-poker-2015-edition/