Mets

[Valuist]

This may be one of the deepest starting rotations ever seen. Matts only made his first start, but he's been hyped and he didn't disappoint. Syndegaard already came up and is a stud. Harvey, DeGrom... Colon is their #5 now. And Zack Wheeler will be back next year. Niese and Gee will either have to go to the bullpen or get traded. The team desperately needs hitting; Wheeler for Castro may make sense, but not until the year is over (at least for the Cubs standpoint). Washington hasn't run away and hid; the Mets are gonna be in the NL East race all season. And probably for a number of years.

[OTM Al]

This may be one of the deepest starting rotations ever seen. Matts only made his first start, but he's been hyped and he didn't disappoint. Syndegaard already came up and is a stud. Harvey, DeGrom... Colon is their #5 now. And Zack Wheeler will be back next year. Niese and Gee will either have to go to the bullpen or get traded. The team desperately needs hitting; Wheeler for Castro may make sense, but not until the year is over (at least for the Cubs standpoint). Washington hasn't run away and hid; the Mets are gonna be in the NL East race all season. And probably for a number of years.
If they get players that can hit the ball. Offense is horrible.

[Valuist]

If they get players that can hit the ball. Offense is horrible.

It is, but they don't need many runs. Imagine Colon as a # 5, matching up against the likes of a Kendrick, Jerome Williams, Travis Wood, or a number of other # 5 starters. If you are a big time free agent hitter, you KNOW you can make a huge impact because the pitching is already in place.

My team, the Cubs, is going about it the other way. They have assembled a very strong core of young position players. Hitting wins regular season games; Pitching wins in October. The two teams could be natural trading partners. But as a Cubs fan hoping for a WS, getting by the Mets in 2016 and onward isn't going to be easy.

[pandy]

I'm a Mets fan and I doubt that they're going to improve their offense that much. In order to keep the star pitching staff they'll have to pay so there won't be much money left for sluggers. But, they may not need to have a high scoring team. They won the World Series with a similar team in 1969, all pitching, no hitting, and they went to the 7th game in '73 with a similar team that had a weak offense, but great pitching.

[Valuist]

I'm a Mets fan and I doubt that they're going to improve their offense that much. In order to keep the star pitching staff they'll have to pay so there won't be much money left for sluggers. But, they may not need to have a high scoring team. They won the World Series with a similar team in 1969, all pitching, no hitting, and they went to the 7th game in '73 with a similar team that had a weak offense, but great pitching.

They may have to pay a lot somewhere down the line, but right now, Colon and Niese are the only starters making over a million a year.

[OTM Al]

It is, but they don't need many runs. Imagine Colon as a # 5, matching up against the likes of a Kendrick, Jerome Williams, Travis Wood, or a number of other # 5 starters. If you are a big time free agent hitter, you KNOW you can make a huge impact because the pitching is already in place.

My team, the Cubs, is going about it the other way. They have assembled a very strong core of young position players. Hitting wins regular season games; Pitching wins in October. The two teams could be natural trading partners. But as a Cubs fan hoping for a WS, getting by the Mets in 2016 and onward isn't going to be easy.

I'm sorry but I can't stand that logic. Balanced teams win championships. Harvey is losing regularly because his team can't score. Atlanta had the best pitching of the 90s and only managed to win once. and they even had decent hitting. The Cubs are in much better shape right now than the Mets. I expect big things from them and that this Mets pitching will get hurt and/or leave the team when they get the chance. I see continued disappointment and mediocrity with that team.

[horses4courses]

I haven't seen much of the Mets this year.
What I have seen of Harvey, though, leads me to believe he's overrated.

Just saw highlights of the MLB debut of young Matz today.
How cool was that? :cool:

[pandy]

It's weird, the Mets have one of the weakest offenses in the league but they have the best hitting pitching staff. Matz, Colon, Syndergaard, have all had big games at the plate this year. This was pretty amazing, the Mets never had a player drive in 4 runs in his first game...as a pitcher he had hits in his first three at bats.

[horses4courses]

It's weird, the Mets have one of the weakest offenses in the league but they have the best hitting pitching staff. Matz, Colon, Syndergaard, have all had big games at the plate this year. This was pretty amazing, the Mets never had a player drive in 4 runs in his first game...as a pitcher he had hits in his first three at bats.

Fun to watch.
I love pitchers hitting - even when they don't.

Was watching the Giants play the Rockies today.
Bumgarner got a couple hits, including a HR, and scored 2 runs.
Real baseball ;)

[pandy]

It's good to see. For the money these guys make you would think that they would be at least able to make some contact.

Mickey Mantle was one of the best drag bunters I've ever seen, masteful. I thought he was just a natural since he was such a great player, but then I read that him and Maris practiced drag bunting every day in spring training. If the Yankees were down by more than 4 runs late in a game,they needed baserunners, he'd lay one down and get on base. The truly great players do whatever they can to win.

[Valuist]

http://sportsmockery.com/2015/06/report-chicago-cubs-discussing-a-possible-trade-with-the-new-york-mets/

[horses4courses]

It's good to see. For the money these guys make you would think that they would be at least able to make some contact.

Mickey Mantle was one of the best drag bunters I've ever seen, masteful. I thought he was just a natural since he was such a great player, but then I read that him and Maris practiced drag bunting every day in spring training. If the Yankees were down by more than 4 runs late in a game,they needed baserunners, he'd lay one down and get on base. The truly great players do whatever they can to win.

I just learned something.

Never knew Mantle was a good bunter but,
of course, he could do everything else.

Born in '58, I never got to see him at his best.

[Valuist]

I'm sorry but I can't stand that logic. Balanced teams win championships. Harvey is losing regularly because his team can't score. Atlanta had the best pitching of the 90s and only managed to win once. and they even had decent hitting. The Cubs are in much better shape right now than the Mets. I expect big things from them and that this Mets pitching will get hurt and/or leave the team when they get the chance. I see continued disappointment and mediocrity with that team.

I do agree balance wins. And the issue with pitching heavy teams is the injury risk. But, David Wright has been out most of the season. He's certainly one of their best players. Maybe he's on the downside and had too many injuries. But he is very talented. Trade deadline a month away; there's hitters out there who will be available. The Mets are only 2 1/2 games out with an anemic offense. Just add two decent bats; you don't need to add a Trout or Harper. Two guys a little better than replacement level and then you become the favorite to win the East.

[dnlgfnk]

It is, but they don't need many runs. Imagine Colon as a # 5, matching up against the likes of a Kendrick, Jerome Williams, Travis Wood, or a number of other # 5 starters. If you are a big time free agent hitter, you KNOW you can make a huge impact because the pitching is already in place.

My team, the Cubs, is going about it the other way. They have assembled a very strong core of young position players. Hitting wins regular season games; Pitching wins in October. The two teams could be natural trading partners. But as a Cubs fan hoping for a WS, getting by the Mets in 2016 and onward isn't going to be easy.

Not buying this, either.

My Cards have a +95 run differential...the Mets? -17. Fangraphs projects the Cards with a final run diff of 119, the Mets...-14. And their projected final standings have the Mets continuing at .500, 10 games behind Washington, missing out to the Pirates/Cubs as wild card qualifiers.

In the playoffs, a team gets by with a 3 man rotation. That narrows the pitching advantage for the Mets vis-a-vis other teams' top 3 starters.

[Valuist]

Not buying this, either.

My Cards have a +95 run differential...the Mets? -17. Fangraphs projects the Cards with a final run diff of 119, the Mets...-14. And their projected final standings have the Mets continuing at .500, 10 games behind Washington, missing out to the Pirates/Cubs as wild card qualifiers.

In the playoffs, a team gets by with a 3 man rotation. That narrows the pitching advantage for the Mets vis-a-vis other teams' top 3 starters.

I know the people at Fangraphs have very high opinions of themselves, and the sabermetric crowd probably would prefer if it was all played by Strat O Matic. But the games are still played in real life.

As for your Cardinals, they've played great but without Wainwright, without Adams and Holliday, they are going to have a definite regression to the mean coming. But net runs is meaningless anyways. Ask the Oakland A's about that.

[dnlgfnk]

I know the people at Fangraphs have very high opinions of themselves, and the sabermetric crowd probably would prefer if it was all played by Strat O Matic. But the games are still played in real life.

As for your Cardinals, they've played great but without Wainwright, without Adams and Holliday, they are going to have a definite regression to the mean coming. But net runs is meaningless anyways. Ask the Oakland A's about that.

Agreed, Valuist.

I use sabermetrics as one piece of the puzzle, as in handicapping. Yet, Jeff Luhnow was at the forefront of the Cardinals putting a WAR-informed "value" on prospects in 2003, and now getting results with Houston. In that light, Matt Harvey may be a tad lucky to date. His BABIP shows that some balls just haven't fallen in vs. the league average expectancy.

If they go 43-43 the rest of the way, it's 95 wins for the Cardinals and the playoffs. Then as you say... pitching. Scherzer, anyone?

[Kash$]

Wright,Murphy,D'Naud missing in action they will be fine.The Mets 1-5 the best Pitching in baseball its not close.
There playoff run will be under a differrent manager.Venutra if fired by Sox is on the top of the list

[horses4courses]

The Cardinals look great until they come up
against Bruce Bochy and the Giants in the playoffs ;)

[OTM Al]

Wright,Murphy,D'Naud missing in action they will be fine.The Mets 1-5 the best Pitching in baseball its not close.
There playoff run will be under a differrent manager.Venutra if fired by Sox is on the top of the list

Wright is unfortunately not the player he was, nor is he ever going to be again. Sad because he should have become a big time star in NY. Murphy is a good player, but not great by any means. d'Arnaud is a catcher. Never rely on a catcher for offense. Granted the guys listed are better than what they have going now, but that just isn't saying much.

[Valuist]

Toronto as a trading partner? They are loaded w offense but not sure who they'd give up. Maybe Colabello? They don't have much invested in him & he's been great this year.

[Valuist]

Now the Mets pick up Carlos Gomez and send injured Zach Wheeler and Flores going back to Milwaukee. Gomez is a big bat, and the other 2 lesser bats they added (Uribe and Johnson) may give them just enough offense. I think they end up winning the NL East.

I think Washington was foolish to trade for Papelbon; Storen had been having a great season. Why disrupt the team?

[pandy]

Now the Mets pick up Carlos Gomez and send injured Zach Wheeler and Flores going back to Milwaukee. Gomez is a big bat, and the other 2 lesser bats they added (Uribe and Johnson) may give them just enough offense. I think they end up winning the NL East.

I think Washington was foolish to trade for Papelbon; Storen had been having a great season. Why disrupt the team?


I hope you're right. Let's go Mets!

[Valuist]

I hope you're right. Let's go Mets!

Now they say the trade is off....or at least delayed. Guessing its about a physical. Flores had already been told he was traded.

[Tor Ekman]

Now they say the trade is off....or at least delayed. Guessing its about a physical. Flores had already been told he was traded.
Another example of the twitter/social media universe run amok. Sandy Alderson in post game interview pretty much stated that there was never any such deal being negotiated.

[Valuist]

Another example of the twitter/social media universe run amok. Sandy Alderson in post game interview pretty much stated that there was never any such deal being negotiated.

He's a liar. Flores said he was told he was traded. He actually was crying (they showed on MLB Network). Alderson is just covering his ass because they didn't do their due diligence on Gomez's health.

[reckless]

Social media most of the time runs amok, even when it is correct.

So, once again, the Mets' organization has shown just how out of touch they are. Clueless to a degree. Come on, this is the time of year where rumors, opinions, hopes and wishes, are all bandied about on the half-hour. So, with an instant social media presence, is anyone surprised that this went down as wrongly as it did?

The post-game press conference had manager Terry Collins outraged and embarrassed. He must certainly feel dissed by Sandy Alderson that he wasn't in the loop, a disgrace by the over-rated GM. If the deal went south, a courtesy call to the clubhouse or dugout before the game was required to keep everyone on the same page. Christ, the Phillies did the right thing 2-3 days ago when they pushed Cole Hamels' next pitching start to Friday, not his regularly scheduled Thursday date because they were shopping him around. Everyone on earth knew the Mets were shopping Flores and a pitcher or two, so common sense was missing in the Alderson board-room this week.

Wilma Flores crying on the field was remarkable. He's a big boy and knows baseball is a business. He also knows he isn't Derek Jeter and he gets criticized for his fielding. It still must hurt to know you're no longer wanted by your team even when you know there's a trade possibility looming.

Also, Flores is a home-grown Met, first signed at age 16, I think. Maybe, just maybe, a little respect to the guy was warranted here?

[reckless]

He's a liar. Flores said he was told he was traded. He actually was crying (they showed on MLB Network). Alderson is just covering his ass because they didn't do their due diligence on Gomez's health.

I agree Valuist. It is easy to blame the media --print, social-- when things go wrong, especially when the organization is shown to be clueless to boot.

But, the Mets did Flores wrong here. I thought Flores has held up rather well -- along with Tejada -- starting from last year through today. He gets buried on the radio, newspapers, etc., all the time. So, when the Mets got a couple of capable players and hitters last week I thought they could keep Flores for his bat and try to compensate for his fielding flaws.

If Flores does get traded before Friday, we all understand that it's part of the business.

[Valuist]

I agree. I think Flores needs to understand that to get a player like Gomez, you are going to have to part with value the other way. The Brewers aren't gonna trade Gomez for a backup catcher.

Big non event. With Gomez, I believe the Mets overtake Washington. Not to say they still can't, but it will be much tougher.

[HoofedInTheChest]

Toronto as a trading partner? They are loaded w offense but not sure who they'd give up. Maybe Colabello? They don't have much invested in him & he's been great this year.
Ya he's been great at the plate, but he has no business wearing a glove, he is brutal in the outfield and not much better at first.

[BetHorses!]

That was a steal of a trade

[Tor Ekman]

Great win, storybook ending with Flores knocking walk off homer in 12th. Fans were awesome in supporting him from the get go. Cespedes joins in tomorrow. LET'S GO METS!!!

[Zaf]

Yes Great to add a Slugger to the lineup :jump:

[Tor Ekman]

Twitter gold from Mets fan Jerry Seinfeld

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1605004193/JS_halloween_7_bigger.jpg Jerry SeinfeldVerified account ‏@JerrySeinfeld (https://twitter.com/JerrySeinfeld)

Oh my god. @Mets (https://twitter.com/Mets)
I can't believe I can actually say this, but is it true that there is now "A Cespedis for the rest of us"? #mets (https://twitter.com/hashtag/mets?src=hash) #T7L (https://twitter.com/hashtag/T7L?src=hash)

[Tor Ekman]

Mets are coming on, one back for division lead after another huge win tonight. Nats know they've got a real fight on their hands rest of way. I like my guys chances. LET'S GO METS !!!

[Spiderman]

Lightning strikes at Citi Field - Mets hit three home runs within 5 pitches! lead 5-1, going to top of 4th.

[Valuist]

If they go on to win the East, the turning point will be the 48 hours in which Flores thought he was traded and was crying on the field, to two days later in which he hits a walk off HR.

[horses4courses]

If two big leads hold in the late innings,
the Mets will be alone in first by a game. :ThmbUp:

[Spiderman]

Noah Syndergaard's last pitch in 8th inning was a 99 mph statement strikeout of Bryce Harper.

[Tor Ekman]

Enjoy the ride, been a long time coming. Let's Go Mets!!!

[Spiderman]

Mets lead Marlins, in Miami, 10 - zip; Nats trail Arizona 5-0 top of 5th in DC

[horses4courses]

Noah Syndergaard's last pitch in 8th inning was a 99 mph statement strikeout of Bryce Harper.

The Mets have the most exciting starting rotation in baseball.
Remind me a bit of the late 80s/early 90s Braves.

[Spiderman]

The Mets have the most exciting starting rotation in baseball.
Remind me a bit of the late 80s/early 90s Braves.

Potential to meet the Seaver, Koosman, Ryan standard of the '68 Mets.

[Valuist]

Will their be innings limits for Syndegaard, Matts, and even Harvey (coming off Tommy John surgery)?

[Spiderman]

Will their be innings limits for Syndegaard, Matts, and even Harvey (coming off Tommy John surgery)?

Pitch counts will be managed depending on several factors. Most of important being status of bullpen. In Syndergaard's game, bullpen was exhausted from appearing in 3 and 4 games in-a-row. Syndergaard knew he had to get through 8th inning and did, in spectacular fashion. Relief pitcher who was rested, retired Nats 1-2-3 in ninth.

Mets are looking ahead to being in play to World Series in November.

[horses4courses]

At this point, with over 50 games left, the Mets look in good shape.
I think their biggest threats getting to the WS are STL and PIT.
The Pirates will miss Burnett, though.

The Cubs are a wildcard possibility, not much more.
The Dodgers seem to be lacking again in the clubhouse.
Their starting rotation is, obviously, great.
The rest of the squad runs hot and cold, and the bullpen is iffy.
With Greinke and Kershaw, you can't count them out, though.
That is, if Mattingly can keep them from going 8-9 innings all the time.

The Giants are up against it, too.
Key injury at 2nd base to Joe Panik.
Bumgarner is not where he was before.
Leake helps, but isn't likely to dominate.
The rest are okay, but not overpowering.
They will be hard pressed to make the playoffs.

I thought the Giants should have signed Chapman from the Reds.
They don't have a reliable closer in Casilla.
He just blew his 5th save this season last night, and it won't get better.
The price for Chapman was likely too steep, though.

[Spiderman]

Will their be innings limits for Syndegaard, Matts, and even Harvey (coming off Tommy John surgery)?

Pitch counts will be managed depending on several factors. Most important being status of bullpen. In Syndergaard's game, bullpen was exhausted from appearing in 3 and 4 games in-a-row. Syndergaard knew he had to get through 8th inning and did, in spectacular fashion. Relief pitcher who was rested, retired Nats 1-2-3 in ninth.

Mets are looking ahead to being in play to World Series in November.

[HoofedInTheChest]

Noah Syndergaard's last pitch in 8th inning was a 99 mph statement strikeout of Bryce Harper.
Can we give you back Dickey for Syndergaard?

[Tor Ekman]

Fuggetiboutit .... The Mighty Thor is a monster and Td'A is a legit mainstay guy behind the dish if he can ever stay away from the flukey-type injuries that seem to find him more often than others. Alderson fleeced you guys on that one. Mets also just picked up another lefty relief specialist from A's and released Alex Torres to bolster a soft spot, and TC visited Montero in rehab in Florida to kick his ass in gear to get back for stretch run to add his live arm for spot starts and long relief. Mets have a very good feel to them right now, could be a special run. Big late rally win last night . LET'S GO METS!!!

[Spiderman]

Can we give you back Dickey for Syndergaard?

:D

[Tor Ekman]

Monster Mashers now to go with the pitching, if Captain DW's first game back is any indication of what he can contribute, this is gonna be a killer lineup the rest of the way. Never been a Big fan of TC as manager but gotta say he's done a masterful job of utilizing the entire roster to keep everyone locked in with sufficient at bats, and the healthy competition has sharpened everyone, most particularly Lagares who knows that he has to earn his starts in CF now, and Wilmer continues to be a sort of lucky charm talisman for this club, even Michael "Cadaver" is playing like a frisky kid since coming back off DL. Could use another arm in pen to help the bridge to 8th/9th Clippard/Familia but if they keep mashing like this that won't matter as much. Let's Go Mets !!!

[pandy]

My son was at the game last night, Mets team record 8 home runs.

[Secondbest]

Also 15 extra base hits

[Ocala Mike]

Hitting is contagious, it's said, and the Mets have gone viral. Major reversal that night of the Flores crying incident. Hate to get too pumped up, because the Mets' bubble has burst in September many times before, but...Let's Go, Metsies!

[pandy]

Hitting is contagious, it's said, and the Mets have gone viral. Major reversal that night of the Flores crying incident. Hate to get too pumped up, because the Mets' bubble has burst in September many times before, but...Let's Go, Metsies!


So true. And those extra sluggers in the batting order make the other hitters better because they get better pitches to hit. The year Maris hit 61 homers the next batter in the line up was Mickey Mantle, who hit 54 homers and was the most feared hitter in the league. You had to throw strikes to Maris or Mantle would drive him in with an extra base hit. Earlier in the season the Mets had no protection in the order. I was surprised Duda did so well. He should do even better once he gets back in the new line up.

[Shemp Howard]

So true. And those extra sluggers in the batting order make the other hitters better because they get better pitches to hit. The year Maris hit 61 homers the next batter in the line up was Mickey Mantle, who hit 54 homers and was the most feared hitter in the league. You had to throw strikes to Maris or Mantle would drive him in with an extra base hit. Earlier in the season the Mets had no protection in the order. I was surprised Duda did so well. He should do even better once he gets back in the new line up.

Same thing the year Ruth hit 60 homers. Gehrig, batting ahead of him, hit .373, with 52 doubles, 47 homers, and had 173 RBI's.

MVP of the AL.

[pandy]

Same thing the year Ruth hit 60 homers. Gehrig, batting ahead of him, hit .373, with 52 doubles, 47 homers, and had 173 RBI's.

MVP of the AL.

Yeah, I guess Gehrig was a decent guy to have batting ahead of you. Wow. What a pitcher's nightmare that lineup was.

[Ocala Mike]

Cuddyer waking up now; starting to feel like '69 and '86 to me. Nats a basket case right now, and Williams on the hot seat.

[Tor Ekman]

HUGE win for Mets, soul crushing loss for Nats. Cespedes = BEAST. Drew Storen = Basket Case. Matt Williams makes every opposing manager look like Earl Weaver. Hard not to be confident now, but I'd still prefer those last 3 at home vs Nats to be meaningless.

[Secondbest]

HUGE win for Mets, soul crushing loss for Nats. Cespedes = BEAST. Drew Storen = Basket Case. Matt Williams makes every opposing manager look like Earl Weaver. Hard not to be confident now, but I'd still prefer those last 3 at home vs Nats to be meaningless.
Don't worry they will be.With the braves philly and cincy coming up plus the nats choking 2 moré weeks should do it.

[mikesal57]

HUGE win for Mets, soul crushing loss for Nats. Cespedes = BEAST. Drew Storen = Basket Case. Matt Williams makes every opposing manager look like Earl Weaver. Hard not to be confident now, but I'd still prefer those last 3 at home vs Nats to be meaningless.


Cespedes needs to stop show-boating ...

I wonder if Terry Collins had a talk with him after yesterday's 3 run error...

maybe this is why teams keep trading him

Mike

P.S.- Most likely , Matt Williams gets the hook after a loss tonight

[Tor Ekman]

Cespedes needs to stop show-boating ...

I wonder if Terry Collins had a talk with him after yesterday's 3 run error...

maybe this is why teams keep trading him

In fairness to Cespedes, that ball took a funky hop of a type not often seen off outfield grass, and although it's true he played the ball off to his side, he was also charging it hard to possibly cut down runner trying to score from second. I'll excuse him that one, as I can live with the occasional physical errors of over-aggression, as opposed to the mental brain farts seen too often from Murphy - although he hasn't emitted one in a while now.

Sure Cespedes has a little mustard on him, but so did Willie Mays. Overall the guy plays hard and bottom line, HE PRODUCES, so it's not like having to tolerate Willie Montanez, who was all show, no go. I'll gladly live with the "flair" that Cespedes carries with him.

[Tor Ekman]

HUGE win for Mets, soul crushing loss for Nats. Cespedes = BEAST. Drew Storen = Basket Case. Matt Williams makes every opposing manager look like Earl Weaver. Hard not to be confident now, but I'd still prefer those last 3 at home vs Nats to be meaningless.This bears repeating. My goodness, how stupid is Matt Williams that he would bring Storen in to face Cespedes again. How sweep it is!!!

[Ocala Mike]

What else should he have done? You're not gonna go anyplace without your setup man and closer being effective, so may as well find out now.

Also a big Mets fan here, but I'm not raising any pennant yet. I remember some huge September meltdowns recently. Still...Let's Go, Mets!

[mikesal57]

What else should he have done? You're not gonna go anyplace without your setup man and closer being effective, so may as well find out now.

Also a big Mets fan here, but I'm not raising any pennant yet. I remember some huge September meltdowns recently. Still...Let's Go, Mets!

Not the same team as before...Didn't have this kind of pitching..

Now we can rest Harvey for rest of year...Get Matz going again and find a hole to put Niese in..

YES...OCTOBER BASEBALL COMING!!

[Zaf]

Another great effort tonight ! Ya Gotta Believe :ThmbUp:

Z

[Zaf]

How do you like us now :) :ThmbUp:

[Spiderman]

Mets focus now is to gain home field advantage vs. Dodgers. Mets surging, Dodgers lost last two. Mets 1/2 game back in loss column.

Let's Go Mets!!!

[BELMONT 6-6-09]

As a huge Mets fan I take it one game at a time with the goal of the home field advantage against the Dodgers. However, the Cardinals are STILL the team to beat...a little ahead of myself. LOL

Let's Go Mets!!!

[mikesal57]

Dodgers have a series with Pirates on their 10 game homestand....along with Ariz & Rockies

and their last 6 on road including 3 with Giants

Think we have a good shot of passing them...

But I never liked the format of 2-3-2...Do you think this is favorable to the better record team?

Mike

[Spiderman]

Dodgers have a series with Pirates on their 10 game homestand....along with Ariz & Rockies

and their last 6 on road including 3 with Giants

Think we have a good shot of passing them...

But I never liked the format of 2-3-2...Do you think this is favorable to the better record team?

Mike
Are you referring to best 2-of-3 and best 3-of-5 winning series? Or, 2 home, 3 away, 2 home games?

Its been a long time since I've had interest in MLB playoff series. Usually tune-out until WS and then may view only game or two.

[mikesal57]

Yankees should be shaking in their pants...

With a 100 MPH fastball and a curve from hell....Syndergaard will rule!!


Mike

[mikesal57]

Yikes...they came out swinging... :mad:

[Ocala Mike]

"The Mets are really pounding the ball,
knocking those home runs over the wall"

Remember the old "Meet the Mets" song?

Terry Collins' biggest problem now is managing his assets; the pitching rotation and who should play or sit each day. A nice problem to have, and they certainly are acting like the "now" team peaking (hopefully) at the right time.

[Kash$]

IF the Mets get by the Dodgers..hey win the world series.

[thaskalos]

It's the year of the Cubs.

[OTM Al]

IF the Mets get by the Dodgers..hey win the world series.
Mets are the 5th best team in a very, very good league. They are lucky they will not have to face more than one team from the Central division however, and that is a good break for them.

[Kash$]

Mets are the 5th best team in a very, very good league. They are lucky they will not have to face more than one team from the Central division however, and that is a good break for them.


There isnt a better staff in the playoffs then the Mets..Not the cubs,pirates,dodgers...

[OTM Al]

There isnt a better staff in the playoffs then the Mets..Not the cubs,pirates,dodgers...
Their starters look very good, but they are also very young and have zero playoff experience, unless you ant to elevate Colon. Their relief pitchers are mediocre. Their hitting has improved, but can't say it is better than the others. Overall as a team I stand by my assessment. Cards and Cubs now look 1-2, Pirates 3, LA a close 4, and Mets 5

[Tor Ekman]

3 outs to clinch the division!!! Let's Go Mets!!!

[Tor Ekman]

PUT IT IN THE BOOKS!!! NL EAST CHAMPS!!! BRING ON THE DODGERS!!! LET'S GO METS!!!

[Spiderman]

Way to go, Mets! Won with two strong hitting games. Duda, Duda, Duda 3 home runs and 10 ribbies in last three.

Mets have fearsome four relievers. If they get home advantage v. LA Bums, i would start Syndergaard, then Matz and Harvey for 5-6 innings in third game.

Cut Parnell and O'flaherty from playoff roster. A ten run lead is not enough for these two to hold.

Let's Go Mets!!!

[mikesal57]

Champagne time

[Ocala Mike]

Our time is coming into the playoffs flatter than a tire after hitting a blowout strip in the road. Obviously, they felt the season was over when they clinched.

Would love to see them advance, but the Dodgers will probably go right through them. Wait 'til next year.

[BELMONT 6-6-09]

Don't be a quitter WE ARE MET FANS!!! You gotta believe!!!

[reckless]

Matt Scherzer no hitted the Mets tonight, winning 2-0.

He struck out 17 Metzies, including 9 of the last 10 batters he faced.

[BELMONT 6-6-09]

Dominating performance! But as Met fans what doesn't kill us makes us stronger ha ha

[Tor Ekman]

Let the Nats enjoy Max's no-hitters and Harper's stats. Mets are playing baseball next week. Turn the page and get fired up for playoffs. LET'S GO METS!!!

[Spiderman]

Harvey was brilliant, Syndergaard struck out ten. Good warm-ups for next Friday in sunny LA. Let's Got Mets!

[thaskalos]

Should Kershaw be at -200 against deGrom?

[horses4courses]

Should Kershaw be at -200 against deGrom?

I'm not sure how the Mets stack up against lefties, or Kershaw.
I do know this - Kershaw's post season record is poor by his standards.

Mattingly tried, I believe, to give him fewer innings in Aug/Sept
in order to keep some in reserve for the playoffs, but will it work?

I watched him pitch last week against the Giants.
It was a game the Dodgers needed to wrap up the division.
Even though he got the win over Bumgarner, he wasn't
fooling the Giant's hitters. A lot of sharp liners that managed
to find a glove. He's no Cy Young winner this year.

Imo, he looks a nice play against at +180.
He deserves to be favorite, but not -200.

[thaskalos]

Imo, he looks a nice play against at +180.
He deserves to be favorite, but not -200.
I agree. Even if you put Kershaw's post-season record aside...this is a terribly over-inflated money line. I mean...if Kershaw is -200 against the Mets and deGrom...then, what should he be against the Phillies and Aaron Harang? -500?

[BetHorses!]

Series is roughly same price

[thaskalos]

David Price's post-season woes continue. Will Kershaw be next?

GO METS!

[Kash$]

Mets are the 5th best team in a very, very good league. They are lucky they will not have to face more than one team from the Central division however, and that is a good break for them.

The Mets are the most complete team in baseball,the best staff in baseball.

[Spiderman]

The Mets are the most complete team in baseball,the best staff in baseball.

I second that. Let's Go Mets!!

[Tor Ekman]

And Cespedes hasn't been hitting much, if he heats up again, watch out.

Let's Go Mets!!!

[mikesal57]

The Mets are the most complete team in baseball,the best staff in baseball.

Except for the Bullpen...Anderson and Clippard scares me when they come in..

[Kash$]

Except for the Bullpen...Anderson and Clippard scares me when they come in..

Agree

Heres the difference in post season they will let starters go deep..

Also freaking Cuddyer missing the two fly balls yesterday were huge why?

Degrom was supposed to pitch game 4 because of the two errors its upped his pitch count 18 more pitches total for game 121

No way he comes back in three days

[horses4courses]

Except for the Bullpen...Anderson and Clippard scares me when they come in..

Didn't watch the Mets much in the regular season.
Last night, it blew me away that they didn't have
a left hander coming out to face Gonzalez in the 8th.
Clippard was lucky he only gave up a single.

No decent lefties in the pen?
That could kill them down the stretch.

[mikesal57]

Agree

Heres the difference in post season they will let starters go deep..

Also freaking Cuddyer missing the two fly balls yesterday were huge why?

Degrom was supposed to pitch game 4 because of the two errors its upped his pitch count 18 more pitches total for game 121

No way he comes back in three days


Cuddyer will be on bench for rest of series...he's now a liability

I hope Conforto plays every game...he's their future

[MutuelClerk]

Hope the Mets win. Can never root Dodgers. If the Mets get to or win the World Series and sign Cespedes. I think they will regret it. Just don't trust this guy.

[Spiderman]

Didn't watch the Mets much in the regular season.
Last night, it blew me away that they didn't have
a left hander coming out to face Gonzalez in the 8th.
Clippard was lucky he only gave up a single.

No decent lefties in the pen?
That could kill them down the stretch.

Niese is off starter rotation. He is good for 1-3 innings from bullpen. Last few starts he was solid in first four innings, then the sky fell. He volunteered to pitch in relief.

[Kash$]

Hope the Mets win. Can never root Dodgers. If the Mets get to or win the World Series and sign Cespedes. I think they will regret it. Just don't trust this guy.

Wouldnt trust Cespedes..Use the money to sign Murphy

[mikesal57]

Wouldnt trust Cespedes..Use the money to sign Murphy


Dont think Mets will sign Murphy.....they tried so long to trade him and never gave him an offer...Bye bye
Also his defense leaves you praying all the time when its hit his way

[mikesal57]

there it is...crap bullpen...hands it over to them...

[horses4courses]

Why didn't the Mets appeal that call?
Uttley never touched 2nd.
BS........... :ThmbDown:

I guess they called it a neighborhood play decision.
That's crap because the throw did not pull Tejada off the bag.

[Ocala Mike]

Don't understand that play/call at all. Isn't there a rule to protect infielders whereby the base runner must start his slide BEFORE second base and must be able to make contact with the base as a result of the slide? So many things wrong with that play, I just don't get it.

Mets need to grow a pair now and come out swinging against the Dodgers - probably something will break out at Citi Field involving throwing at batters.

[horses4courses]

probably something will break out at Citi Field involving throwing at batters.

Yes.....coming from the stands :eek:

[thaskalos]

I didn't watch this game and just saw the replay. Was there really a slow-mo showing that Tejada missed the bag at second on that play? As many times as I watched it on replay, it seemed obvious that Tejada stepped on the bag before he was upended.

A disgusting slide by Utley, IMO...and an even more disgusting call by the umps.

It's a good thing I am not Terry Collins, because if I were...then I would have Matt Harvey retaliate in the worst way the next time Utley steps to the plate.

[pandy]

Strange play. I don't see how a runner can be called safe without touching the base. You can't be awarded second if you don't touch it. The umps screwed up and I still don't understand why the Mets didn't appeal at second. Of course, another big mistake was the 3-2 curveball on the walk to the first baserunner. The hitter is not a power hitter and Syndergaard was throwing 99 mph. You have to challenge the hitter in that situation (unless it's a great hitter).

[Spiderman]

The slide was not clean. Mets were robbed.

The umps should be benched for remainder of playoffs through WS!

Revenge will not be sweet. Baseball machismo calls for a retaliatory act.

Here is viewpoint from sportswriter:

"Now, I can even say that Utley's slide did break the rules and that, in fact, not only should he have been called out (Tejada not touching the bag is another issue completely), but the batter should have been called out, as well.

Rule 6.05 reads:

A batter is out when --

(m) A preceding runner shall, in the umpire's judgment, intentionally interfere with a fielder who is attempting to catch a thrown ball or to throw a ball in an attempt to complete any play:

Rule 6.05(m) Comment: The objective of this rule is to penalize the offensive team for deliberate, unwarranted, unsportsmanlike action by the runner in leaving the baseline for the obvious purpose of crashing the pivot man on a double play, rather than trying to reach the base. Obviously this is an umpire's judgment play.

Was Utley trying to reach the base? No. Did he leave the baseline? Yes? Was it deliberate, unwarranted and unsportsmanlike? Yes. CALL THE RULE. IT'S ALREADY ON THE BOOKS.

Or you can use Rule 7.09:

It is interference by a batter or a runner when --

(e) If, in the judgment of the umpire, a base runner willfully and deliberately interferes with a batted ball or a fielder in the act of fielding a batted ball with the obvious intent to break up a double play, the ball is dead. The umpire shall call the runner out for interference and also call out the batter-runner because of the action of his teammate. In no event may bases be run or runs scored because of such action by a runner.

Deliberately and willfully? Again, yes. CALL THE RULE. IT'S ALREADY ON THE BOOKS.


http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/64132/the-slide-that-ruined-everybodys-night-except-the-dodgers

Let's Go Mets!

[OTM Al]

7.09 does not apply. You were quoting the proper rule to start with. Regardless of that, a team that is as good as many are making the Mets out to be overcomes a situation like this. They did not. Now they have Harvey and who knows going in the next 2. Don't like their chances.

[Kash$]

It was a dirty slide and illegal..Utley wont play in NY but i guarantee a Dodger will get hit by Harvey

[Kash$]

there it is...crap bullpen...hands it over to them...


Collins screwed up left Reed in there with Gonzalez up,at that point Neise shouldve been brought in to pitch.

[OTM Al]

It was a dirty slide and illegal..Utley wont play in NY but i guarantee a Dodger will get hit by Harvey

Bad idea. Would be very stupid to take the risk of getting thrown out of the game and umps will be watching I'm sure. You want the bullpen doing 6 or 7 innings?

[Spiderman]

It was a dirty slide and illegal..Utley wont play in NY but i guarantee a Dodger will get hit by Harvey

It won't be a valued pitcher doin' the deed. Mets' priority is to win next two games. If game situation allows, I would order bat 'slipping' toward LA pitcher's feet.

[OTM Al]

It won't be a valued pitcher doin' the deed. Mets' priority is to win next two games. If game situation allows, I would order bat 'slipping' toward LA pitcher's feet.
Any type of retaliation would be pure stupidity. This is the playoffs. You do not give the other team any additional chances intentionally. Players understand this as well as managers and coaches. You get back at the other team by beating and eliminating them.

[burnsy]

I have to agree with everyone. I was watching that game. The fact if second was touched or not is irrelevant. That's a dirty slide, he slides late, goes past second and out of the baseline to crush the opponent. They get to look at replays for 5 minutes and no interference call? c'mon man, that was a tackle. He's freaking sliding halfway into center field and he never touched second, his arm couldn't even reach it.

What happens next is up to the coach of the Mets.....some coaches will demand that someone gets the "brush" back or bean today...regardless of consequences. What they say on camera and what actually happens is two different things.

[OTM Al]

I have to agree with everyone. I was watching that game. The fact if second was touched or not is irrelevant. That's a dirty slide, he slides late, goes past second and out of the baseline to crush the opponent. They get to look at replays for 5 minutes and no interference call? c'mon man, that was a tackle. He's freaking sliding halfway into center field and he never touched second, his arm couldn't even reach it.

What happens next is up to the coach of the Mets.....some coaches will demand that someone gets the "brush" back or bean today...regardless of consequences. What they say on camera and what actually happens is two different things.
I disagree actually. The base was well within reach. That is the standard for judgement. I also cannot call it a dirty play. It was a hard and physical play, the type of play that once upon a time was expected. His team is down in the series and in the game. Player did what he had to do. Have no reason to believe he wanted to hurt the defensive player, but the situation called for taking him out and he did it within the rules, though I will admit it was close to the line.

The other problem with the play resulted from instant replay however. A player leaving a base when no call has been made is judged ceding the out, and thus an out would be called. However, the player did not cede the out because he was called out. Play was stopped when the player was shown not to be out. This causes a problem. How is the player supposed to know he isn't out when he is told he is. I've seen no comment on this aspect of the call which is the key here, to me, for what was the real problem with the play. Would like to see clarification on the rule involving instant replay.

[MutuelClerk]

It wasn't a slide. When you think slide, the runner is hitting the dirt around the base and if he has to continuing into the middle infielder to break up the double play. This was more a flying tackle. The only thing in Utley's favor is it wasn't routine double play. Tejada was kinda tip toeing around the bag. I thought it was dirty. Suspendable? I'm not sure.

[horses4courses]

I don't have as much of a problem with the slide as I do with the call.
How can you call a runner safe who never touched the bag?
The only way that should happen is if the runner was interfered with.
That was certainly not the case.

It was a home team call :ThmbDown:

[BetHorses!]

Cmon guys the slide was LATE
Everyone knows that

[Valuist]

This may be one of the deepest starting rotations ever seen. Matts only made his first start, but he's been hyped and he didn't disappoint. Syndegaard already came up and is a stud. Harvey, DeGrom... Colon is their #5 now. And Zack Wheeler will be back next year. Niese and Gee will either have to go to the bullpen or get traded. The team desperately needs hitting; Wheeler for Castro may make sense, but not until the year is over (at least for the Cubs standpoint). Washington hasn't run away and hid; the Mets are gonna be in the NL East race all season. And probably for a number of years.

Not too bad a call some 3 1/2 months ago.

[Valuist]

Cmon guys the slide was LATE
Everyone knows that

Absolutely. I think MLB is getting a growing problem. We've seen 3 slides (Coghlan, Donaldson in game 1, and Utley) in the past month that were started way too late; appears that all were done with bad intent.

[OTM Al]

Cmon guys the slide was LATE
Everyone knows that
Please show me the rule that defines a late slide. Not relevant to a ruling. Either he is judged to have interfered or not. Shortstop also left his own player in harms way with that throw.

[OTM Al]

I don't have as much of a problem with the slide as I do with the call.
How can you call a runner safe who never touched the bag?
The only way that should happen is if the runner was interfered with.
That was certainly not the case.

It was a home team call :ThmbDown:
As I said before, no one seems to be addressing this issue. It seemed to me to be a problem with the replay rules.

[Valuist]

Please show me the rule that defines a late slide. Not relevant to a ruling. Either he is judged to have interfered or not. Shortstop also left his own player in harms way with that throw.

If there isn't a law on the books, there needs to be. What the three players did that I mentioned earlier. They changed the rules to protect the catcher. And the catcher is wearing a ton of equipment. Nothing to protect the SS and 2B.

[OTM Al]

If there isn't a law on the books, there needs to be. What the three players did that I mentioned earlier. They changed the rules to protect the catcher. And the catcher is wearing a ton of equipment. Nothing to protect the SS and 2B.
That is a different argument and would be a difficult rule to write and accurately enforce. The equipment a catcher wears does pretty much nothing, other than maybe the helmet, in a collision. The catcher issue was because that position is much less mobile. Good SS 2B combo works on mobility around the bag and feeding the ball to each other so they aren't as vulnerable. Tejada was left out to dry on that toss.

[BetHorses!]

Please show me the rule that defines a late slide. Not relevant to a ruling. Either he is judged to have interfered or not. Shortstop also left his own player in harms way with that throw.


It was Bush league. Now a leg was broken and rule change is coming

[thaskalos]

Did Tejada really miss the bag at second?

[OTM Al]

It was Bush league. Now a leg was broken and rule change is coming
Not remotely. Such a play would have been applauded back in the so called "golden age" of baseball.

[OTM Al]

Did Tejada really miss the bag at second?

Yep.

[ManU918]

I cant believe people think what Utley did was wrong or "bush league". You have to be kidding me. This is the playoffs and not to mention Utley has played like this everyday since he has been in the Majors. The guy gives 110% each game and should be applauded for what he did. It's not as if he went into Tejada with the intention of breaking his leg. His job there is to break up the double play and that's exactly what he did. And what he did was perfectly legal. Let Harvey throw at his head in his next plate appearance. He will happily eat it and take the bag.

[OTM Al]

I cant believe people think what Utley did was wrong or "bush league". You have to be kidding me. This is the playoffs and not to mention Utley has played like this everyday since he has been in the Majors. The guy gives 110% each game and should be applauded for what he did. It's not as if he went into Tejada with the intention of breaking his leg. His job there is to break up the double play and that's exactly what he did. And what he did was perfectly legal. Let Harvey throw at his head in his next plate appearance. He will happily eat it and take the bag.
Dead on, but you missed one thing. He'll happily watch Harvey get ejected and take the bag. Retaliation for this by the Mets would be the dumbest thing they could possibly do. And that would be the real definition of bush league.

[BetHorses!]

I cant believe people think what Utley did was wrong or "bush league". You have to be kidding me. This is the playoffs and not to mention Utley has played like this everyday since he has been in the Majors. The guy gives 110% each game and should be applauded for what he did. It's not as if he went into Tejada with the intention of breaking his leg. His job there is to break up the double play and that's exactly what he did. And what he did was perfectly legal. Let Harvey throw at his head in his next plate appearance. He will happily eat it and take the bag.


Slide was LATE.

[OTM Al]

Slide was LATE.
And nothing prohibits that in and of itself.

[thaskalos]

And nothing prohibits that in and of itself.
It should. If a runner to first can be called out for running inside the baseline...then a base-runner should be called out for what Utley did.

[BetHorses!]

And nothing prohibits that in and of itself.


Add you to the list of idiots backing Utley's "smart" play

[Kash$]

I disagree actually. The base was well within reach. That is the standard for judgement. I also cannot call it a dirty play. It was a hard and physical play, the type of play that once upon a time was expected. His team is down in the series and in the game. Player did what he had to do. Have no reason to believe he wanted to hurt the defensive player, but the situation called for taking him out and he did it within the rules, though I will admit it was close to the line.

The other problem with the play resulted from instant replay however. A player leaving a base when no call has been made is judged ceding the out, and thus an out would be called. However, the player did not cede the out because he was called out. Play was stopped when the player was shown not to be out. This causes a problem. How is the player supposed to know he isn't out when he is told he is. I've seen no comment on this aspect of the call which is the key here, to me, for what was the real problem with the play. Would like to see clarification on the rule involving instant replay.

It was a dirty play..You do realize how late the slide was...?
100% Hes been known around the league as a dirty player...
I'm betting you a Yankee fan

[pandy]

You can't blame Utley for taking out the shortstop, Frank Robinson used to slide like that all the time. But whether or not Utley's play was a dirty play is a moot point. He should have been called out because, A). He never touched the bag, and B). He did not attempt to touch the bag. You can try to take out the shortstop but you also have to reach out with your leg or arm and touch the bag, otherwise it pretty much proves that you were out of the base path. But even if the runner is in the base path, you have to touch the base to be called safe. This was one of the clearest umpire blunders I've ever seen.

[Tor Ekman]

Collins, as per usual, was clueless. First he should have emphatically argued that horseshit review instead of meekly accepting the umps explanation; and second, the time to exact retribution was last night with Robles on the mound with the game all but lost at 5-2, he should have had Robles drill some Dodger on the hands. Now he missed the boat, because the umps at direction of MLB will likely issue a pre-game warning precluding Harvey from nailing someone, which would be stupid in any event. Now they'll have to wait until one of the games is well in hand with a lopsided score which is not likely in this series. Until then, look for nasty slides at 2nd base from both sides and maybe a Met laying down a bunt up the first base line and then looking to run over the pitcher or first baseman on way to the bag. Didn't want to see Cuddyer in the field again, but back at home he may be OK in left field against lefty Anderson because he too knows how to lay out a middle infielder. Maybe Torre grows a set and suspends Utley but I think it unlikely and Utley would appeal it anyway and remain eligible to play. Series is gonna be amped up even more from hereon out and this will no doubt carry over to next year.

[horses4courses]

Utley was sliding to break up the DP, not to injure Tejada.
If he was playing for my team, I'd expect him to do the same.
Dirty, or not, it's part of the game.

[Valuist]

Utley was sliding to break up the DP, not to injure Tejada.
If he was playing for my team, I'd expect him to do the same.
Dirty, or not, it's part of the game.

How can you differentiate between the two? How does one try to break up the double play? By going after the middle infielder. The actual intent may not be to injure; just the peripheral fallout works out that way. And sometimes it backfires; Donaldson slid late and hit his head on the Toronto infielder.

They protect catchers, but there's far more double play possibilities than plays at the plate. MLB needs to come down on the guys who make late slides.

[OTM Al]

Add you to the list of idiots backing Utley's "smart" play
Won the game didn't they? Stop being a homer. Had a Met done this would you really be making the same argument?

[Valuist]

And nothing prohibits that in and of itself.

That's gonna change.

I hear other arguments; Frank Robinson, Ty Cobb, John McGraw. Gotta come in spikes high and draw blood or you aren't a man :confused:

Make a rule outlawing late slides and contact, and we can get rid of the "neighborhood rule".

[horses4courses]

How can you differentiate between the two? How does one try to break up the double play? By going after the middle infielder. The actual intent may not be to injure; just the peripheral fallout works out that way. And sometimes it backfires; Donaldson slid late and hit his head on the Toronto infielder.

They protect catchers, but there's far more double play possibilities than plays at the plate. MLB needs to come down on the guys who make late slides.

Had Tejada not turned away from the play, he probably would be okay.
Middle infielders run into this on a regular basis.

I agree that a rule change is a good idea.
I would change the ridiculous "neighborhood play"
replay criterion before anything else, though.

[OTM Al]

It was a dirty play..You do realize how late the slide was...?
100% Hes been known around the league as a dirty player...
I'm betting you a Yankee fan
Brilliant argument. Can't support your view so you bring up something that is completely irrelevant. I said the play was near the line but don't think it was over it.

[OTM Al]

That's gonna change.
And that has nothing to do with what is and is an entirely different discussion. If you want to have that discussion, then I say it will be problematic as you would be adding to the number of judgement calls unless you want them to chalk more running lanes on the field.

[Valuist]

Had Tejada not turned away from the play, he probably would be okay.
Middle infielders run into this on a regular basis.

I agree that a rule change is a good idea.
I would change the ridiculous "neighborhood play"
replay criterion before anything else, though.

Definitely get rid of the neighborhood play. And the only reason it exists is to protect against contact. But in cases where the pivot infielder gets the ball late, they don't have time to avoid the contact.

And then we have the whole revenge thing, which brings about beanballs and guys who weren't originally involved, getting thrown at.

I could write a whole thread on the stupidity of baseball's "unwritten rules" but thats another story.

[ManU918]

It should. If a runner to first can be called out for running inside the baseline...then a base-runner should be called out for what Utley did.

So it's Utley's fault for playing by the rules? If people see a problem with what Utley did they should not fault Utley, fault the league for allowing a play that they think is not sportsmanlike.

[Valuist]

And that has nothing to do with what is and is an entirely different discussion. If you want to have that discussion, then I say it will be problematic as you would be adding to the number of judgement calls unless you want them to chalk more running lanes on the field.

Not really. If you make a rule against late slides, you can forget about the "neighborhood rule", which isn't on the books but is very much in existance.

I want to see the quality of the game at its best; and when retribution starts getting involved, it only detracts from the game.

And don't say what about the NHL; is the game really better because they allow fighting?

[pandy]

So it's Utley's fault for playing by the rules? If people see a problem with what Utley did they should not fault Utley, fault the league for allowing a play that they think is not sportsmanlike.


I wouldn't fault Utley for the hard slide, it's part of the game, as you say. But, I would fault him for not attempting to touch the base. This was not a good base running play by Utley, it was a mistake by the umpires. If the runner does not touch the base he cannot be called safe and if the runner does not attempt to touch the base then he can't prove that he was in the base path, so that is another reason why the out call should have remained.

[Tor Ekman]

I just don't get understand how on review the umps can award a base to a runner when the runner never advanced to said base and never exhibited any intent to try to touch such base. It's complete nonsense, as is the whole use of replay which was intended to overturn egregiously bad calls, not to examine the millimeters between a safe or out call.

[OTM Al]

I just don't get understand how on review the umps can award a base to a runner when the runner never advanced to said base and never exhibited any intent to try to touch such base. It's complete nonsense, as is the whole use of replay which was intended to overturn egregiously bad calls, not to examine the millimeters between a safe or out call.
As I said before, I think it is a problem with the replay rule itself. Runner or base never tagged. Umpire called an out. Runner hadn't touched base either but didn't go back because he was called out and no reason to disbelieve umpire. Play is now dead. How can this be fixed by replay? Abstract from what happened in this game and just consider these facts. This simply cannot be resolved without something specifically written in the rep,at rule and even then people won't be happy.

[OTM Al]

Not really. If you make a rule against late slides, you can forget about the "neighborhood rule", which isn't on the books but is very much in existance.

I want to see the quality of the game at its best; and when retribution starts getting involved, it only detracts from the game.

And don't say what about the NHL; is the game really better because they allow fighting?
I agree and retribution is usually poorly handled. Thing is, I see late slides happen in situations completely unlike this by bad base runners or runners being tricked by infielders just to name two examples. I just don't see how you can legislate this in a way that would make things less based on judgement.

[MutuelClerk]

It wasn't a slide. When you slide you go into the ground before the base so your momentum doesn't take you past the base. It was a tackle. It was dirty. If Utley is in the league next year payback will happen.

[PaceAdvantage]

Add you to the list of idiots backing Utley's "smart" playPlease refrain from the name calling...totally uncalled for...you idiot...

[BetHorses!]

Please refrain from the name calling...totally uncalled for...you idiot...

Didnt bother him. I respect him for making his argument.
So now I'm an idiot...thank you

[BetHorses!]

Won the game didn't they? Stop being a homer. Had a Met done this would you really be making the same argument?


I'm not a homer cause I am a pro gambler and have different favorite teams every night. I did grow up as a Mets fan and bet them in games 1 and 2. But I am mature enough to say if it was the other way I would still say its wrong. Yes Utley plays hard. Yes its the playoffs. But the slide started at the base. Not cool

[OTM Al]

I'm not a homer cause I am a pro gambler and have different favorite teams every night. I did grow up as a Mets fan and bet them in games 1 and 2. But I am mature enough to say if it was the other way I would still say its wrong. Yes Utley plays hard. Yes its the playoffs. But the slide started at the base. Not cool
Started 5-6 feet in front of the base and he easily could have touched the bag. The collision appears to have spun Utley around making it look further away. Near the line, but not over it and completely legal. Here's an article that sums up pretty well

http://espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2015/story/_/id/13863565/craig-biggio-argues-rules-change-wake-ruben-tejada-chase-utley-collision

[Kash$]

Started 5-6 feet in front of the base and he easily could have touched the bag. The collision appears to have spun Utley around making it look further away. Near the line, but not over it and completely legal. Here's an article that sums up pretty well

http://espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2015/story/_/id/13863565/craig-biggio-argues-rules-change-wake-ruben-tejada-chase-utley-collision

Rule 5.09..crystal clear

.. Utley should've been called out..,for those who follow rules
In rule 5.09 both hitter and runner both called out..period

[BetHorses!]

Started 5-6 feet in front of the base and he easily could have touched the bag. The collision appears to have spun Utley around making it look further away. Near the line, but not over it and completely legal. Here's an article that sums up pretty well

http://espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2015/story/_/id/13863565/craig-biggio-argues-rules-change-wake-ruben-tejada-chase-utley-collision

You or anyone can post any video of the slide with any angle. Utley started his slide when his right foot was parallel to second base

[BetHorses!]

Started 5-6 feet in front of the base

NO WAY

[horses4courses]

Bet Horses appears to be correct

PIuNE8K6b50

[BetHorses!]

Thank you. He went in very late, high, wide all while Tejada has his back to him.

The real farce is they awarded him the base after Utley made zero attempt to reach the bag

[horses4courses]

The Associated PressVerified account ‏@AP 34s35 seconds ago
BREAKING: MLB suspends Los Angeles' Chase Utley for Games 3 and 4 of the NL Division Series

Regardless of what you think of the slide,
this is a good thing for Utley's personal safety.

He was so loved and adored as a Phillie there, too :lol:

[ldiatone]

The Associated PressVerified account ‏@AP 34s35 seconds ago
BREAKING: MLB suspends Los Angeles' Chase Utley for Games 3 and 4 of the NL Division Series
where were they when KANG was hurt :confused:

[BetHorses!]

The Associated PressVerified account ‏@AP 34s35 seconds ago
BREAKING: MLB suspends Los Angeles' Chase Utley for Games 3 and 4 of the NL Division Series



:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[OTM Al]

NO WAY
You can see the marks on the ground where his leg hit that are in front of the bag. To physically get down the slide had to start at least a full stride before. I didn't say he hit the ground 5-6 feet in front, I said the slide started there. Had it started on the bag, then your argument would have more merit.

The rule is not crystal clear either. If it were then it would be illegal to ever take out a middle infielder because you would always be interfering with a throw. This is why there are interpretations that umps have developed over time and follow. They could have judged interference but did not. The league reaction is standard overreaction as has come to be expected.

BTW I still think when Albert Belle dropped Fernando Vina it was a legal and appropriate play. He got suspended for being Albert Belle. I also believe Alex Rodriguez should have dropped his shoulder on the Boston pitcher in 2004 and driven him into right field rather than slapping at the glove, which is illegal.

Utley will appeal and he is right to do so. Since they will be in NY it should be done tomorrow for a final judgement, that likely will be 1 game.

[horses4courses]

You can see the marks on the ground where his leg hit that are in front of the bag. To physically get down the slide had to start at least a full stride before. I didn't say he hit the ground 5-6 feet in front, I said the slide started there. Had it started on the bag, then your argument would have more merit.

The rule is not crystal clear either. If it were then it would be illegal to ever take out a middle infielder because you would always be interfering with a throw. This is why there are interpretations that umps have developed over time and follow. They could have judged interference but did not. The league reaction is standard overreaction as has come to be expected.

BTW I still think when Albert Belle dropped Fernando Vina it was a legal and appropriate play. He got suspended for being Albert Belle. I also believe Alex Rodriguez should have dropped his shoulder on the Boston pitcher in 2004 and driven him into right field rather than slapping at the glove, which is illegal.

Utley will appeal and he is right to do so. Since they will be in NY it should be done tomorrow for a final judgement, that likely will be 1 game.

Al, unless you are not going to slide at all, going at that pace,
you have to at least bend down to begin sliding.
That has to start before the bag.
Usually, the slide does, too.
What he did wasn't illegal - there's a fair case to make it that way, though.

[BetHorses!]

You can see the marks on the ground where his leg hit that are in front of the bag.


Those marks are not from him. Take a look at the aerial shot 19 seconds in...marks are there...he started at 20 seconds

[BetHorses!]

You can see the marks on the ground where his leg hit that are in front of the bag. To physically get down the slide had to start at least a full stride before. I didn't say he hit the ground 5-6 feet in front, I said the slide started there. Had it started on the bag, then your argument would have more merit.

The rule is not crystal clear either. If it were then it would be illegal to ever take out a middle infielder because you would always be interfering with a throw. This is why there are interpretations that umps have developed over time and follow. They could have judged interference but did not. The league reaction is standard overreaction as has come to be expected.

BTW I still think when Albert Belle dropped Fernando Vina it was a legal and appropriate play. He got suspended for being Albert Belle. I also believe Alex Rodriguez should have dropped his shoulder on the Boston pitcher in 2004 and driven him into right field rather than slapping at the glove, which is illegal.

Utley will appeal and he is right to do so. Since they will be in NY it should be done tomorrow for a final judgement, that likely will be 1 game.


And I apologize for calling you an idiot. I am being sincere :ThmbUp:

[Valuist]

where were they when KANG was hurt :confused:

This is coming from a Cubs fan: Coghlan should've been suspended for that late slide that broke Kang's leg. No doubt about it.

[RXB]

Pete Rose, sixth inning of Game 7 in the 1975 World Series, that's how to slide hard to break up a double play.

Tejada should know better than to put himself in such a vulnerable position but Utley's play is not the way to go after the pivot guy. Way late and no real attempt at the bag. If they hadn't punished Utley it would be like declaring open season on middle infielders.

[PaceAdvantage]

Didnt bother him. I respect him for making his argument.
So now I'm an idiot...thank youSo, you have no sense of humor either I see...oh well

[PaceAdvantage]

And I apologize for calling you an idiot. I am being sincere :ThmbUp:Thank you.

[Valuist]

You can see the marks on the ground where his leg hit that are in front of the bag. To physically get down the slide had to start at least a full stride before. I didn't say he hit the ground 5-6 feet in front, I said the slide started there. Had it started on the bag, then your argument would have more merit.

The rule is not crystal clear either. If it were then it would be illegal to ever take out a middle infielder because you would always be interfering with a throw. This is why there are interpretations that umps have developed over time and follow. They could have judged interference but did not. The league reaction is standard overreaction as has come to be expected.

BTW I still think when Albert Belle dropped Fernando Vina it was a legal and appropriate play. He got suspended for being Albert Belle. I also believe Alex Rodriguez should have dropped his shoulder on the Boston pitcher in 2004 and driven him into right field rather than slapping at the glove, which is illegal.

Utley will appeal and he is right to do so. Since they will be in NY it should be done tomorrow for a final judgement, that likely will be 1 game.

Here's the Belle play. A bit of different circumstances since the collision wasn't near the base. But a clear forearm shiver, nevertheless. Was he suspended for being Albert Belle? Or did he give a forearm shiver because he was Albert Belle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VV3fNK31HD4

[Kash$]

Umpires got it wrong(Olney states)..Rules are clear hitter and batter should've been called out..
We have our own PA officials

Utley didn't make a attempt for the bag he went after the player legs,..

Chipper/Cameron both former MLB players tweeted dirty play..
Its illegal play umpires didn't enforce the rule

But like I said we have our own PA officials:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[OTM Al]

Those marks are not from him. Take a look at the aerial shot 19 seconds in...marks are there...he started at 20 seconds
Not the big marks that are 7 or so feet out. Whoever did that one never made the bag. There's a mark that he made right in front of the bag. Regardless, the reaction machine is in motion. Only question left is if Mets will act like professionals or not.

[OTM Al]

Umpires got it wrong(Olney states)..Rules are clear hitter and batter should've been called out..
We have our own PA officials

Utley didn't make a attempt for the bag he went after the player legs,..

Chipper/Cameron both former MLB players tweeted dirty play..
Its illegal play umpires didn't enforce the rule

But like I said we have our own PA officials:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
You mean like the six officials on the field who didn't call it? Gee, they have no experience in these matters....

[Kash$]

You mean like the six officials on the field who didn't call it? Gee, they have no experience in these matters....

MLb(Brian K.) tonight,Buster,etc the umps blew it fact end of story its a rule..

And of course Al umps,refs with experience never get calls wrong?Duh

Dude batter and runner should've been called out periodend of story its a rule which wasn't enforced..Gee!

[ManU918]

MLb(Brian K.) tonight,Buster,etc the umps blew it fact end of story its a rule..

And of course Al umps,refs with experience never get calls wrong?Duh

Dude batter and runner should've been called out periodend of story its a rule which wasn't enforced..Gee!

Then every ump should be fired because this happens all the time during the season and no one is ever suspended for it. Why all of a sudden now is this a story? Because someone was injured. Had Tejada not gotten hurt, no one would be discussing it. If player's are going to be held responsible for breaking the rules then umpires should be held responsible for missing calls and not knowing the rules of the game they are in charge of.

[Kash$]

Then every ump should be fired because this happens all the time during the season and no one is ever suspended for it. Why all of a sudden now is this a story? Because someone was injured. Had Tejada not gotten hurt, no one would be discussing it. If player's are going to be held responsible for breaking the rules then umpires should be held responsible for missing calls and not knowing the rules of the game they are in charge of.

I agree

..Tejada getting hurt is why its become a big deal..

Play should've been called a DP runner and hitter out..As a matter of fact Torre was quoted play should've been called a double play

[ManU918]

I agree

..Tejada getting hurt is why its become a big deal..

Play should've been called a DP runner and hitter out..As a matter of fact Torre was quoted play should've been called a double play

I understand. Not disagreeing with what the rules of the game are but if the players are used to playing a certain way because the umpires don't enforce the letter of the law then the umpires should be the ones held responsible not the player in this case Chase Utley. In Philly this morning I was watching a morning show and they went back and showed Chase busting it throughout his career. He has done what he did on Saturday night 100 plus times throughout his career and he's not the only one doing it. If they didn't discipline him for it in the past then they shouldn't now. I'll be shocked if his suspension is upheld. My guess is they meet in the middle and give him one game.

[BetHorses!]

Thank you.

:lol: I was just joking w my bs apology :lol:

[Kash$]

I understand. Not disagreeing with what the rules of the game are but if the players are used to playing a certain way because the umpires don't enforce the letter of the law then the umpires should be the ones held responsible not the player in this case Chase Utley. In Philly this morning I was watching a morning show and they went back and showed Chase busting it throughout his career. He has done what he did on Saturday night 100 plus times throughout his career and he's not the only one doing it. If they didn't discipline him for it in the past then they shouldn't now. I'll be shocked if his suspension is upheld. My guess is they meet in the middle and give him one game.

I think Torre wants to avoid Utley playing NY..and i don't think he should be suspended...

[OTM Al]

Then every ump should be fired because this happens all the time during the season and no one is ever suspended for it. Why all of a sudden now is this a story? Because someone was injured. Had Tejada not gotten hurt, no one would be discussing it. If player's are going to be held responsible for breaking the rules then umpires should be held responsible for missing calls and not knowing the rules of the game they are in charge of.

Dead on again. Would contend though that umps are not ignoring rules and missing calls. This rule like many others is based on an interpretation of what is seen. What umps have done in response is to create and share a detailed list of how to be as consistent as possible in regard to these rules that are open to interpretation. This play is regularly and consistently judged by whether or not the runner could touch the bag. The completely consistent call was made in this situation in accord with the practice. If the league wants to change this rule starting next season, then fine, but then that is a different argument. They change and update rules all the time between seasons so nothing new there. But you can't call it at this point if you have never called it up to this point.

I don't think a rule change here is going to help though and have no idea how they can better the situation. They could institute the rule that is in HS and college that you can only slide directly into the bag. As a response then runners might well start running through the base, which could end up in even worse collisions or guys getting hit in the face with throws. But if you keep reacting every time when guys get hurt, you start going down a slippery slope toward a game that looks more like one played by 5 year olds.

[Spiderman]

Harvey tonight, Matz tomorrow. Let's Go Mets!!!!

[ManU918]

Utley hearing not being heard today. He will be in the lineup.

[pandy]

I hope some Karma happens to even things out for the game the umps took away from them.

[RXB]

Downward force into a planted leg. Exactly what shouldn't happen. That's how broken legs can happen and in this case that was indeed the result. Hopefully the suspension will be upheld.

[OTM Al]

:lol: I was just joking w my bs apology :lol:
And I still think he's a homer :)

[Kash$]

For PA officials read rule 5.09 813..

[OTM Al]

For PA officials read rule 5.09 813..
Of course we have read it countless times at this point. The comment, which gives guidelines

Rule 5.09(a)(13) Comment (Rule 6.05(m) Comment): The
objective of this rule is to penalize the offensive team for deliberate, unwarranted, unsportsmanlike action by the runner in leaving the baseline for the obvious purpose of crashing the pivot man on a double play, rather than trying to reach the base. Obviously this is an umpire’s judgment play.

Two points:
1) ...unsportsmanlike action by the runner in leaving the baseline....
2) Obviously this is an umpire’s judgment play.

Umpire judged he did not leave the baseline which is a requirement of calling the automatic double play. I agree that he did not. Therefore it was a legal play. Further, fielder never tagged the base in the first place, so double play was not in question to begin with. Added complication with no clear answer in the age of replay...

Not going to discuss anymore. Only thing left is for MLB to reduce the suspension to one game and see if the Mets do something stupid.

[Kash$]

1) ...unsportsmanlike action by the runner in leaving the baseline....

He was out of the baseline...He hit Tejada when he was PASSED the bag..out of the baseline is pass the bag

[onefast99]

1) ...unsportsmanlike action by the runner in leaving the baseline....

He was out of the baseline...He hit Tejada when he was PASSED the bag..out of the baseline is pass the bag
1) he was never out of the baseline
2) there was no relay throw to make it an "in the neighborhood"by Tejada
3) Uttley left the field when told he was out, Mattingly then challenged the play and Uttley was ruled safe, Uttley then returned to the base while tejada was being removed on a stretcher.

This was a bang bang play, it was a shame a player was injured but based on the rules in the current rulebook there was no reason to throw uttley out of the game.

[onefast99]

I agree

..Tejada getting hurt is why its become a big deal..

Play should've been called a DP runner and hitter out..As a matter of fact Torre was quoted play should've been called a double play
Where did you see this? Why would the batter be out there was never a relay throw to first base, you are wrong.

[BetHorses!]

Of course we have read it countless times at this point. The comment, which gives guidelines

Rule 5.09(a)(13) Comment (Rule 6.05(m) Comment): The
objective of this rule is to penalize the offensive team for deliberate, unwarranted, unsportsmanlike action by the runner in leaving the baseline for the obvious purpose of crashing the pivot man on a double play, rather than trying to reach the base. Obviously this is an umpire’s judgment play.

Two points:
1) ...unsportsmanlike action by the runner in leaving the baseline....
2) Obviously this is an umpire’s judgment play.

Umpire judged he did not leave the baseline which is a requirement of calling the automatic double play. I agree that he did not. Therefore it was a legal play. Further, fielder never tagged the base in the first place, so double play was not in question to begin with. Added complication with no clear answer in the age of replay...

Not going to discuss anymore. Only thing left is for MLB to reduce the suspension to one game and see if the Mets do something stupid.

Torre said this:

After thoroughly reviewing the play from all conceivable angles, I have concluded that Mr. Utley's action warrants discipline," Torre said in a statement. "While I sincerely believe that Mr. Utley had no intention of injuring Ruben Tejada, and was attempting to help his Club in a critical situation, I believe his slide was in violation of Official Baseball Rule 5.09 (a) (13), which is designed to protect fielders from precisely this type of rolling block that occurs away from the base."

He also added:

"The determination of whether a baserunner has intentionally interfered with a player attempting to turn a double play is left to the judgment of the Umpire on the field, and that judgment call is not subject to review," Torre said. "I should add that determining where to draw the line between an illegal slide and a legitimate hard play is an extremely difficult call for our Umpires."

[Kash$]

[QUOTE=onefast99]Where did you see this? Why would the batter be out there was never a relay throw to first base, you are wrong.[/QUOTE

It's a interfernce call email mlb and Brian Kenney..
Secondly he hit Tejada pass the bag..your no longer running on the basebaline
No your wrong..the ump blew the call

[onefast99]

[QUOTE=onefast99]Where did you see this? Why would the batter be out there was never a relay throw to first base, you are wrong.[/QUOTE

It's a interfernce call email mlb and Brian Kenney..
Secondly he hit Tejada pass the bag..your no longer running on the basebaline
No your wrong..the ump blew the callI never said the ump did or didn't blow the call so you can't say I am wrong on any of my assertions. You are reading into the rule as if it has no flexibility, and it does. Also MLB reviewed the play during the challenge and determined at that time that Tejada wasn't "in the neighborhood" based on the fact there was no relay throw to first base. That led to Uttley being put back on 2nd base, case closed.

[Spiderman]

Utley hearing not being heard today. He will be in the lineup.


He is not in lineup. Kendrick is in against Harvey. Suspension is on hold until hearing is conducted. Hearing must be held within 14 days of appeal request.

[Kash$]

Ok one more time

The Mets are the most complete team in post season...

[onefast99]

Ok one more time

The Mets are the most complete team in post season...
Based on last nights performance they are the one to beat.

[OTM Al]

Based on last nights performance they are the one to beat.

Based on betting lines, it's the Cubs. Mets come in at #4. It was a big win for them but this ranking looks about the way I'd rate it too. Think Cards are better than Dodgers but understand this is the way it has to be at this point.

http://www.vegasinsider.com/mlb/odds/futures/

[Kash$]

Based on betting lines, it's the Cubs. Mets come in at #4. It was a big win for them but this ranking looks about the way I'd rate it too. Think Cards are better than Dodgers but understand this is the way it has to be at this point.

http://www.vegasinsider.com/mlb/odds/futures/

I would love the Mets to face the Cubs....5/2 on the Cubs is a joke..

Vegas ...:lol:

Before the season I would've love to see the Line on the Cubs..Mets are better then the Cubs and Cards and before we go into what happen in the regular season the Mets aren't the same team.
The Cubs are anchored by a xbox lineup and A pitcher whos hot...Mets have four aces.
Cubs have too many easy outs in there lineup.Byrant,Kyle,Baez,are strikeouts waiting to happen..
Btw guess post season experience meant very little,Degrom,Synderguard,dominated the Dodgers,and Harvey only gave up 2 earned runs without his best stuff.
They will have trouble beating Kershaw tonight...
I posted IF the Mets beat the Dodgers they will win the world series..Havent changed...The Cubs better win today...

[mikesal57]

I would love the Mets to face the Cubs....5/2 on the Cubs is a joke..

Vegas ...:lol:

Before the season I would've love to see the Line on the Cubs..Mets are better then the Cubs and Cards and before we go into what happen in the regular season the Mets aren't the same team.
The Cubs are anchored by a xbox lineup and A pitcher whos hot...Mets have four aces.
Cubs have too many easy outs in there lineup.Byrant,Kyle,Baez,are strikeouts waiting to happen..
Btw guess post season experience meant very little,Degrom,Synderguard,dominated the Dodgers,and Harvey only gave up 2 earned runs without his best stuff.
They will have trouble beating Kershaw tonight...
I posted IF the Mets beat the Dodgers they will win the world series..Havent changed...The Cubs better win today...


Cards and Cubs have owed us this year....
If its my choice ..I'd rather play Cubs ...cause history is on our side :) ..

Lets not get ahead of ourselves....If we can stay away from our bullpen...then were good

mike

[Kash$]

Cards and Cubs have owed us this year....
If its my choice ..I'd rather play Cubs ...cause history is on our side :) ..

Lets not get ahead of ourselves....If we can stay away from our bullpen...then were good

mike

Cards and Cubs owned us when Mayberry and Erik were in the lineup.Cards aren't the same team.

The bullpen isn't the Mets problem its the long relief...Look up when Mets have the lead going into the 8th...The problem-the Mets young pitchers are power pitchers who have a pitch count once they hit the number that's hit..5-6 inning normally the pitch count would hit..Thats when the Met bullpen was the weakest long relief..
If your a Met fan you want the Cubs plenty of swing and misses in that lineup...I was with Kyle Schwber early February working out with him Oscar Mercado(Cards ss prospect)and this years #3 pick Rodgers(all of them belonging to the Clausen group same group who have Kershaw and Jeter,Kyle)..Kyle great kid but hes a Dh without a position and plenty of holes in that swing.Bryant is a strikeout machine along with Baez Mets pitching will eat that up..
IF if the Mets get by the Dodgers you would need to beat there 4 aces in 7 games not happening..The longer the series the better for the Mets

[mostpost]

Cards and Cubs owned us when Mayberry and Erik were in the lineup.Cards aren't the same team.
I keep hearing this. The truth is, after the last Cubs-Mets game on July 2 the Mets were eighteen games over 500 (50-32). The Cubs were twenty six games over 500 (56-30). If the Cubs and Mets had been in the same division , the Cubs would have finished seven games ahead.

The bullpen isn't the Mets problem its the long relief...Look up when Mets have the lead going into the 8th...The problem-the Mets young pitchers are power pitchers who have a pitch count once they hit the number that's hit..5-6 inning normally the pitch count would hit..Thats when the Met bullpen was the weakest long relief..
If your a Met fan you want the Cubs plenty of swing and misses in that lineup...
The Cubs do strike out a lot, but they also walk a lot; more than any other team in the National League and second in the Majors.


I was with Kyle Schwber early February working out with him Oscar Mercado(Cards ss prospect)and this years #3 pick Rodgers(all of them belonging to the Clausen group same group who have Kershaw and Jeter,Kyle)..Kyle great kid but hes a Dh without a position and plenty of holes in that swing.
Who the hell is Kyle Schwber? Kyle Schwarber is more than a DH. He is a more than serviceable left fielder who can fill in as a catcher. Certainly he is no Starling Marte in left, but he has made some outstanding plays out there. He is definitely better in the outfield than guys like Adam Dunn. He is also faster than you would expect and a smart base runner.

I don't know where you get the holes in his swing nonsense. The one thing Cubs people emphasize when talking about Schwarber is his short compact swing and plate discipline.


Bryant is a strikeout machine along with Baez Mets pitching will eat that up..
Bryant does strike out a lot. He also has and OBP of .369. That is eleventh best in the National league and better than any Met. Baez has cut his strike out rate from 46% to 31%, has raised his batting average 120 points, his OBP 100 points and his OPS 180 points. And he is not a regular.

IF if the Mets get by the Dodgers you would need to beat there 4 aces in 7 games not happening..The longer the series the better for the Mets
Who are these four reincarnations of Cy Young that are now pitching for the Mets? I hear the name Jacob DeGrom a lot. I look and I see that he has a 14-8 record and the Cubs meat him twice. I hear Matt Harvey. His record is 13-8. When he faced the Cubs he got a no decision. The Cubs won the game.
Noah Syndegard is another name I hear. He is 9-7-two freaking games over .500. Guess what? The Cubs beat him also.
You are right about one thing. The Mets have to beat the Dodgers first; and the Cubs have to beat the Cardinals. Until that happens, all this talk is irrelevant.

[Kash$]

Who are these four reincarnations of Cy Young that are now pitching for the Mets? I hear the name Jacob DeGrom a lot. I look and I see that he has a 14-8 record and the Cubs meat him twice. I hear Matt Harvey. His record is 13-8. When he faced the Cubs he got a no decision. The Cubs won the game.
Noah Syndegard is another name I hear. He is 9-7-two freaking games over .500. Guess what? The Cubs beat him also.
You are right about one thing. The Mets have to beat the Dodgers first; and the Cubs have to beat the Cardinals. Until that happens, all this talk is irrelevant.

DeGrom rookie of the year last year..Has 20 wins if Wright,D'naud,Cespedes had been in the lineup all year
Matt Harvey won 13 games era under 3.00 after Tommy John
Synderguard rookie was called up in June isn't old enough to drink a beer yet.Hardest thrower in the National League.Era low 3.

Cubs beat Synderguard his debut and hes not the same pitcher...

The Mets won the division with the one of the worst baseball teams offensively...Who do you think kept them in the race all year Mayberry and Eric Campell..Hitting 4/5

24/8 after the trade...
Go away with your flash in the pan Arietta and his 6.50 era in post season
Matz-4-0 ERA 2.27

There you have it the best staff in baseball and it isn't close

[Kash$]

Who are these four reincarnations of Cy Young that are now pitching for the Mets? I hear the name Jacob DeGrom a lot. I look and I see that he has a 14-8 record and the Cubs meat him twice. I hear Matt Harvey. His record is 13-8. When he faced the Cubs he got a no decision. The Cubs won the game.
Noah Syndegard is another name I hear. He is 9-7-two freaking games over .500. Guess what? The Cubs beat him also.
You are right about one thing. The Mets have to beat the Dodgers first; and the Cubs have to beat the Cardinals. Until that happens, all this talk is irrelevant.

Holes in his swing yep....Spend some time with Kyle in Tampa and btw hes the first to admit plenty of holes in his swing..

[mostpost]

DeGrom rookie of the year last year..Has 20 wins if Wright,D'naud,Cespedes had been in the lineup all year
If ifs and buts were candy and nuts...............
..Matt Harvey won 13 games era under 3.00 after Tommy John
He lost 8
Synderguard rookie was called up in June isn't old enough to drink a beer yet.Hardest thrower in the National League.Era low 3.
nine wins; SEVEN LOSSES need I say more?

Cubs beat Synderguard his debut and hes not the same pitcher...

The Mets won the division with the one of the worst baseball teams offensively...Who do you think kept them in the race all year Mayberry and Eric Campell..Hitting 4/5

24/8 after the trade...
Go away with your flash in the pan Arietta and his 6.50 era in post season
Matz-4-0 ERA 2.27

There you have it the best staff in baseball and it isn't close
Arrieta's ERA in the Post season is 2.45. The wild card is part of the post season.

[horses4courses]

Arrieta should walk away with the Cy Young.
The only pitcher close is Greinke, and it's not that close.

[thaskalos]

Arrieta should walk away with the Cy Young.
The only pitcher close is Greinke, and it's not that close.
It's that close.

[Spiderman]

Let's Go Mets!!! (worked big time, last night)

[Tor Ekman]

Let's go Matz!!! Let's Go Mets!!!

[Valuist]

It's that close.

Not really. Not the way Arrieta finished out the season.

[Valuist]

DeGrom rookie of the year last year..Has 20 wins if Wright,D'naud,Cespedes had been in the lineup all year
Matt Harvey won 13 games era under 3.00 after Tommy John
Synderguard rookie was called up in June isn't old enough to drink a beer yet.Hardest thrower in the National League.Era low 3.

Cubs beat Synderguard his debut and hes not the same pitcher...

The Mets won the division with the one of the worst baseball teams offensively...Who do you think kept them in the race all year Mayberry and Eric Campell..Hitting 4/5

24/8 after the trade...
Go away with your flash in the pan Arietta and his 6.50 era in post season
Matz-4-0 ERA 2.27

There you have it the best staff in baseball and it isn't close

Arrieta has been dominant for TWO seasons and you are calling him a "flash in the pan" while talking up a guy with 4 major league wins? Maybe Matz will become an ace; but its way too soon to say that and for you to call Arrieta a flash in the pan is laughable.

Yeah you didn't have Cespedes when the Cubs pounded you; but they didn't have Schwarber either. 16 homers in about 50 games is pretty good, and still under the radar.

[Kash$]

Arrieta has been dominant for TWO seasons and you are calling him a "flash in the pan" while talking up a guy with 4 major league wins? Maybe Matz will become an ace; but its way too soon to say that and for you to call Arrieta a flash in the pan is laughable.

Yeah you didn't have Cespedes when the Cubs pounded you; but they didn't have Schwarber either. 16 homers in about 50 games is pretty good, and still under the radar.


10-5 last year is dominate?....Hmmmm so what would you call Kershaws last 3 years..

Yes Arietta is a flash in the pan..

[thaskalos]

Not really. Not the way Arrieta finished out the season.
To be honest...Greinke didn't exactly lay down during the last half either. And I question the logic of emphasizing the last half of the season, instead of looking at the overall season. IMO...the NL Cy Young race couldn't get any closer...so, I don't agree when I hear that "it isn't that close".

[Valuist]

10-5 last year is dominate?....Hmmmm so what would you call Kershaws last 3 years..

Yes Arietta is a flash in the pan..

You just keep digging yourself in deeper. Here's Arrieta's composite numbers for the 2014-2015 regular seasons.

386 innings
32-11 win/loss record
403 strikeouts
2.08 ERA
0.92 WHIP

Yeah, that's dominant.

BTW, I posted about Schwarber about 5 minutes before he hit a bomb. Not only 16 HRs in 50 games but 3 more post season homers.

Take a seat.

[Kash$]

You just keep digging yourself in deeper. Here's Arrieta's composite numbers for the 2014-2015 regular seasons.

386 innings
32-11 win/loss record
403 strikeouts
2.08 ERA
0.92 WHIP

Yeah, that's dominant.

BTW, I posted about Schwarber about 5 minutes before he hit a bomb. Not only 16 HRs in 50 games but 3 more post season homers.

Take a seat.

Digging my self deeper... this year he was so dominate and screws the numbers up..Make sure you post how good he is next year..

[horses4courses]

It's that close.

If you can get even money on Arrieta, bet your life on it.
You will double up, and live to 160+ ;)

[thaskalos]

If you can get even money on Arrieta, bet your life on it.
You will double up, and live to 160+ ;)

The best I can find is 7/10. :)

[horses4courses]

The best I can find is 7/10. :)

A little too skinny.
If you need some extra folding money, though ;)

[horses4courses]

Bartolo is amazing. :ThmbUp:
I watched him a few times this season.
Never had a bad outing.

[mikesal57]

Bartolo is amazing. :ThmbUp:
I watched him a few times this season.
Never had a bad outing.


I hope you didn't jinx him....:mad:

[horses4courses]

I hope you didn't jinx him....:mad:

He's not gonna pitch all night, is he?
I mean, come on.......he's 42.........allegedly :lol:

The last thing I want to do is jinx him.
Being a Giants fan, I don't like the Dodgers one bit. :ThmbDown:

[Kash$]

27 outs in a game

Duda and Wright count for six which leaves 21
.081 ba for wright duda doesnt even count his ks keep mounting up.Kershaw only needing 21..Throw in Flores for 2 Kershaw needs 19 throw in pinch hitter Cuddyer for the automatic leaves Kershaw need in 18..
Means game 5

Matz 4-0 era of 2.57 gives up 2 earn runs in his fifth ml start five innings
Cespedes committs a lazy error which cost a run...Game five against Greinke yikes

[OTM Al]

He's not gonna pitch all night, is he?
I mean, come on.......he's 42.........allegedly :lol:

The last thing I want to do is jinx him.
Being a Giants fan, I don't like the Dodgers one bit. :ThmbDown:
And everyone conveniently forgets his PED connection because he's likable...

[Kash$]

And everyone conveniently forgets his PED connection because he's likable...

Sort of like Yankee fans forgetting Pettitte because hes likable,Arod got cheered this year:lol: ,Giambi,Cervelli,Clemens,Cano left town.

[OTM Al]

Sort of like Yankee fans forgetting Pettitte because hes likable,Arod got cheered this year:lol: ,Giambi,Cervelli,Clemens,Cano left town.

Thanks for proving the point about likability and selective memory.

[horses4courses]

And everyone conveniently forgets his PED connection because he's likable...

I didn't conveniently forget anything.
Just wasn't aware he had PED issues.
Put his bulk down to poor dietary choices.
A bit like Rick Reuschel in the twilight of his career.

PEDs, or not, he's a gamer.
I doubt that his talents were boosted much by them.

He can hit, too.
Not for power, but he has a good eye and timing.
Was he poor at the plate before he went on roids?

[Tor Ekman]

Put his bulk down to poor dietary choices.
A bit like Rick Reuschel in the twilight of his career.
Rick Reuschel was was a porker from day one, not just the twilight of his career

[horses4courses]

Rick Reuschel was was a porker from day one, not just the twilight of his career

Yeah, I'm sure you're right.
I got back to the US in 86 - only watched him for a few years.

[OTM Al]

that his talents were boosted much by them.

He can hit, too.
Not for power, but he has a good eye and timing.
Was he poor at the plate before he went on roids?

He was an AL pitcher for all but one year since 1997 so hard to say. He did bat a robust .032 last year though so guess he just had a good year

[OTM Al]

PEDs, or not, he's a gamer.
I doubt that his talents were boosted much by them.


This is the PED misconception. For most guys they were a way to maintain through the season and recover from all the nagging injuries. A 162 game schedule beats players up even though it looks like they aren't playing THAT hard. So the PEDs let them be the same player in August as they were in May. This is one reason as a fan of the game and someone who pays money for a ticket I really didn't care about the PEDs nearly as much as most did. I wanted to see players playing at the peak of their abilities.

[thaskalos]

Rick Reuschel was was a porker from day one, not just the twilight of his career
In spite of his physique...Reuschel was a good hitter, and a pretty good base-runner...as well as a well-above-average pitcher. These "gym-rat" pitchers of today could sure learn a thing or two from that "porker".

[OTM Al]

In spite of his physique...Reuschel was a good hitter, and a pretty good base-runner...as well as a well-above-average pitcher. These "gym-rat" pitchers of today could sure learn a thing or two from that "porker".

I remember him being pretty good too. Thought he was big for the Cubbies in 84 but must be remembering him from his first go around on the team. What I'd forgotten was he went 17-8 with a sub 3 ERA for the Giants in their WS year of 1989. He was 40 years old at the time and pitched two more years! He went 20-10 for the 1977 Cubs, his best year with them, a truly awful team.

[thaskalos]

I remember him being pretty good too. Thought he was big for the Cubbies in 84 but must be remembering him from his first go around on the team. What I'd forgotten was he went 17-8 with a sub 3 ERA for the Giants in their WS year of 1989. He was 40 years old at the time and pitched two more years! He went 20-10 for the 1977 Cubs, his best year with them, a truly awful team.
He has been very underrated...mainly because of the way he looked, IMO. And that's unfortunate. He was one of the very few bright spots on some terrible teams.

I always liked him. :ThmbUp:

[OTM Al]

He has been very underrated...mainly because of the way he looked, IMO. And that's unfortunate. He was one of the very few bright spots on some terrible teams.

I always liked him. :ThmbUp:
I still remember the first game I saw live. 1975. The midst of the Oscar Zamora Years. Cubs playing the Expos. Leadoff hitter for the Expos drops a bunt. Cubs field and throw it into right field. Runner rounds second and goes for 3rd. Right fielder overthrows 3rd. Fortunately it bounds off the brick wall and they get the man at home. On a ball that didn't go 40 ft. Ah the memories.

My favorite player of all time though was Bill Buckner. Only decent player on the teams of the late 70s. He was batting close to .300. The rest of the team was batting close to .200

[thaskalos]

I still remember the first game I saw live. 1975. The midst of the Oscar Zamora Years. Cubs playing the Expos. Leadoff hitter for the Expos drops a bunt. Cubs field and throw it into right field. Runner rounds second and goes for 3rd. Right fielder overthrows 3rd. Fortunately it bounds off the brick wall and they get the man at home. On a ball that didn't go 40 ft. Ah the memories.

My favorite player of all time though was Bill Buckner. Only decent player on the teams of the late 70s. He was batting close to .300. The rest of the team was batting close to .200
You are forgetting Bill Madlock...who won consecutive batting titles as a Cub during that time-period.

[OTM Al]

You are forgetting Bill Madlock...who won consecutive batting titles as a Cub during that time-period.

I'm also either forgetting the year or inning of the game I was talking about. Just went on Baseball Reference to try to find the game. I know I have, or had, a 1975 scorecard.

Not sure why but wasn't a Madlock fan and wasn't sorry to see him go and Buckner was essentially his replacement. I think I may have cried the next year when they got Dave Kingman. I believe I said something to the effect of that they were bad enough the year before without him.

Another remembrence was my dad telling me a story about seeing Lou Brock stiff a couple fly balls one day just trying to get out of there.

[thaskalos]

I'm also either forgetting the year or inning of the game I was talking about. Just went on Baseball Reference to try to find the game. I know I have, or had, a 1975 scorecard.

Not sure why but wasn't a Madlock fan and wasn't sorry to see him go and Buckner was essentially his replacement. I think I may have cried the next year when they got Dave Kingman. I believe I said something to the effect of that they were bad enough the year before without him.

Another remembrence was my dad telling me a story about seeing Lou Brock stiff a couple fly balls one day just trying to get out of there.
It was widely reported by the Chicago press that Kingman was brought to town in order to break the home run record. Sadly...it didn't turn out that way. I can still remember Jack Brickhouse:

"He sure air-conditioned the ballpark with that swing". :)

[OTM Al]

It was widely reported by the Chicago press that Kingman was brought to town in order to break the home run record. Sadly...it didn't turn out that way. I can still remember Jack Brickhouse:

"He sure air-conditioned the ballpark with that swing". :)
Remember the famous Mike Schmidt 4 HR game? Kingman had 3 that game and was the last man to come to the plate for the Cubs with a chance to win the game. He struck out. He did that....alot. I loved the Brickhouse-Boudreau team by the way. Lou got shafted when they brought in Harry but it was the right business decision.

[Tor Ekman]

How about you guys take your Cubbies talk to a thread dedicated to your team instead of hijacking this thread dedicated to the NY Mets. Thank you.

[thaskalos]

Remember the famous Mike Schmidt 4 HR game? Kingman had 3 that game and was the last man to come to the plate for the Cubs with a chance to win the game. He struck out. He did that....alot. I loved the Brickhouse-Boudreau team by the way. Lou got shafted when they brought in Harry but it was the right business decision.
I think that game was a little before Kingman. If I remember correctly...Rick Monday had a big day at the plate for the Cubs in that game. I remember that because Monday was my favorite Cub player. I used to imitate his batting stance when I played the game myself...even though I was right-handed. I had Monday's hip movement down pat. :)

Jesus Christ, Al...that was almost 40 years ago. Where did the time go? :eek:

[thaskalos]

How about you guys take your Cubbies talk to a thread dedicated to your team instead of hijacking this thread dedicated to the NY Mets. Thank you.
Are the Mets still alive? Sorry... :)

[Tor Ekman]

Are the Mets still alive? Sorry... :)Wow, here come the Cubs fans bringing the arrogance already, having advanced to the NLCS for the first time since, what, 1989???

Never mind no WS win since 1908, is it?

On edit: Wait, how could I forget the 2003 NLCS and the classy Cubs' fans treatment of poor Bartman (ignoring the fact that it was their lovable loser players that shit the bed)

[OTM Al]

How about you guys take your Cubbies talk to a thread dedicated to your team instead of hijacking this thread dedicated to the NY Mets. Thank you.

Well you shouldn't have went on the Rick Reuschell bent. Besides, we brought up Dave Kingman. Mets fans actually liked that guy. And besides, the history of the Cubs and Mets were closely intertwined for a very long time. It would be fun to see them play again for a trip to the series.

[thaskalos]

Wow, here come the Cubs fans bringing the arrogance already, having advanced to the NLCS for the first time since, what, 1989???

Never mind no WS win since 1908, is it?

On edit: Wait, how could I forget the 2003 NLCS and the classy Cubs' fans treatment of poor Bartman (ignoring the fact that it was their lovable loser players that shit the bed)
What arrogance...I was only kidding. Didn't you see the smiley face?