PDA

View Full Version : RIPOFF-ANY IDEAS HOW???


EMD4ME
06-27-2015, 11:05 PM
I look for tracks that I can have an edge in and I love pools that I have an edge in.

So, I play the jackpot HIGH 5 at ASD Assiniboia Downs tonight. Carryover was $2,268.00.

Pool for tonight was $805

I play a cold ticket for $24 bucks. 6/14578/14578/14578/14578.

Comes in 64185

Pays $2416.19

I don't know the VIG in the Super High 5 at ASD. Let's say, it's 30%, which I doubt but let's say it is.

$805 X 30% is $241.50.

$805 minus $241.50 is $563.50

$2,268.00 plus $563.50 is $2,831.50

How in the world do I get paid $2416.19?????????????????????????????

The VIG can't be 81%.

That's what it would need to be for only $148 to be added to the carryover.

I was the only winner, hence how the bet was paid out.

Is it a Canadian currency exchange thing?

WTF????

I'm serious. Any ideas?

Some_One
06-27-2015, 11:15 PM
Carryover 2268 CAD
Today's Pool 990 CAD
Less takeout on today's pool -297 CAD
Total Pool for one winner 2961 CAD

According to xe.com
2,961.00 CAD = 2,403.21 USD

Close enough for me.

EMD4ME
06-27-2015, 11:19 PM
Carryover 2268 CAD
Today's Pool 990 CAD
Less takeout on today's pool -297 CAD
Total Pool for one winner 2961 CAD

According to xe.com
2,961.00 CAD = 2,403.21 USD

Close enough for me.

I appreciate the reply but I have one problem with that. If they are saying the C/O money and the money bet today was CAD, then why aren't all my other wagers in CAD money? I bet $20 to win on a 4/1 there in US dollars. The horse pays $10.80 CAD. I get paid $10.80 US dollars.

How can only this wager be subject to CAD to USD exchanges?

Am I missing something?

Again, I sincerely appreciate the reply....

ReplayRandall
06-27-2015, 11:23 PM
Go back and look at your original bet, should be re-calculated at 19.47 USD(Approx.), instead of 24.00 USD.....

therussmeister
06-27-2015, 11:28 PM
I appreciate the reply but I have one problem with that. If they are saying the C/O money and the money bet today was CAD, then why aren't all my other wagers in CAD money? I bet $20 to win on a 4/1 there in US dollars. The horse pays $10.80 CAD. I get paid $10.80 US dollars.

How can only this wager be subject to CAD to USD exchanges?

Am I missing something?

Again, I sincerely appreciate the reply....

Because you weren't paid out the entire pool when you won your win bet. You got paid 5.4 times the size of your win bet regardless of the size of your bet.

Some_One
06-27-2015, 11:29 PM
I appreciate the reply but I have one problem with that. If they are saying the C/O money and the money bet today was CAD, then why aren't all my other wagers in CAD money? I bet $20 to win on a 4/1 there in US dollars. The horse pays $10.80 CAD. I get paid $10.80 US dollars.

How can only this wager be subject to CAD to USD exchanges?

Am I missing something?

Again, I sincerely appreciate the reply....

You are American right?

Because you're not wagering 20 cents Canadian, you are wagering 20 cents American and its goes into our pool at .246 cents Canadian

Just like how when I bet 2 dollars Canadian up here, it hit's Belmont's totes as 1.62 [edit- meant to say American here]

EMD4ME
06-27-2015, 11:30 PM
Because you weren't paid out the entire pool when you won your win bet. You got paid 5.4 times the size of your win bet regardless of the size of your bet.

So what difference does it make if you are paid the whole pool?

Maybe I'm naive or missing it. Seriously, please explain.

Thanks for the reply.

EMD4ME
06-27-2015, 11:32 PM
Go back and look at your original bet, should be re-calculated at 19.47 USD(Approx.), instead of 24.00 USD.....

I went back and this bet was placed on NYRA rewards. The bet says .20 but I wouldn't expect this ADW to recalculate it as I've never seen that before.

iamt
06-27-2015, 11:34 PM
It look to me that the takeout is applied to the carryover as well as the fresh money.

EMD4ME
06-27-2015, 11:35 PM
You are American right?

Because you're not wagering 20 cents Canadian, you are wagering 20 cents American and its goes into our pool at .246 cents [edit-meant to say American here]

Just like how when I bet 2 dollars Canadian up here, it hit's Belmont's totes as 1.62 Canadian

Ok, I'm with you on the fact that it went it as .246 CAD cents. But I don't see how that matters as it's a jackpot bet. What % of the pool I'm getting is the same no matter the specific amount bet.

I would better accept this if:

everyone was telling me the carryover was in CAD and factoring in the conversion rate, that's where the bulk of the difference is.

Is that maybe the case?

EMD4ME
06-27-2015, 11:36 PM
It look to me that the takeout is applied to the carryover as well as the fresh money.

That would be disgusting and I hope it's not the case.

EMD4ME
06-27-2015, 11:37 PM
Carryover 2268 CAD
Today's Pool 990 CAD
Less takeout on today's pool -297 CAD
Total Pool for one winner 2961 CAD

According to xe.com
2,961.00 CAD = 2,403.21 USD

Close enough for me.

If this is the case, I can accept it. I wrote to ASD to verify. I hope it is the case.

Thank you again.

Some_One
06-27-2015, 11:38 PM
I appreciate the reply but I have one problem with that. If they are saying the C/O money and the money bet today was CAD, then why aren't all my other wagers in CAD money? I bet $20 to win on a 4/1 there in US dollars. The horse pays $10.80 CAD. I get paid $10.80 US dollars.

How can only this wager be subject to CAD to USD exchanges?

Am I missing something?

Again, I sincerely appreciate the reply....

For win wagering it gets complicated, in essence you bet 20 USD to win, I bet 20 CAD to win. The horse wins, you get paid based on a 10.80 USD payoff, I get paid based on a 10.80 CAD payoff. In our pools, your wager will show up as 24.60 CAD when it's thrown in with all the other bets made on that race. The payout is calculated so that the value you see on the screen is what the bettor would get on a 2 dollar wager no matter what currency those dollars were in

EMD4ME
06-27-2015, 11:40 PM
For win wagering it gets complicated, in essence you bet 20 USD to win, I bet 20 CAD to win. The horse wins, you get paid based on a 10.80 USD payoff, I get paid based on a 10.80 CAD payoff. In our pools, your wager will show up as 24.60 CAD when it's thrown in with all the other bets made on that race. The payout is calculated so that the value you see on the screen is what the bettor would get on a 2 dollar wager no matter what currency those dollars were in

I appreciate the detailed feedback, very much so.

Some_One
06-27-2015, 11:41 PM
Ok, I'm with you on the fact that it went it as .246 CAD cents. But I don't see how that matters as it's a jackpot bet. What % of the pool I'm getting is the same no matter the specific amount bet.

I would better accept this if:

everyone was telling me the carryover was in CAD and factoring in the conversion rate, that's where the bulk of the difference is.

Is that maybe the case?

Because you had the only winning ticket.

You did receive 2960 Canadian dollars which was the total of the pool, if a Canadian had won the pool, the ADW would have shown 2960 as the winning payoff.

ReplayRandall
06-27-2015, 11:44 PM
I went back and this bet was placed on NYRA rewards. The bet says .20 but I wouldn't expect this ADW to recalculate it as I've never seen that before.

NYRA rewards seems to be the problem.....instead of 1 full bet at .20 Can, they put you in 1.23 bet Can, for each combo for your US $24 bet, and since you scooped you only can collect what's in the pool. Had there been multiple tickets cashed, your ticket would have paid almost a 1/4 more than the other tickets........That's why you can't see the difference.

EMD4ME
06-27-2015, 11:45 PM
Because you had the only winning ticket.

You did receive 2960 Canadian dollars which was the total of the pool, if a Canadian had won the pool, the ADW would have shown 2960 as the winning payoff.

Again, a sincere thank you. That sounds logical. I now wish Twin Spires would show the C/O as CAD dollars and not just a regular number. That mislead me.

Thank you to my neighbor up NORTH :ThmbUp: Appreciate your feedback.

EMD4ME
06-27-2015, 11:47 PM
NYRA rewards seems to be the problem.....instead of 1 full bet at .20 Can, they put you in 1.23 bet Can, for each combo for your US $24 bet, and since you scooped you only can collect what's in the pool. Had there been multiple tickets cashed, your ticket would have paid almost a 1/4 more than the other tickets........That's why you can't see the difference.

That is annoying. I get what you're saying. Because of their "lack of going to the next step", with this jackpot wager (making it go through as .20 CAD), I overbet into the pool.

I'll take it though. $24 to get $2416 is 100/1. I don't mind that it's not 110/1 to 1 ;)

Some_One
06-27-2015, 11:47 PM
NYRA rewards seems to be the problem.....instead of 1 full bet at .20 Can, they put you in 1.23 bet Can, for each combo for your US $24 bet, and since you scooped you only can collect what's in the pool. Had there been multiple tickets cashed, your ticket would have paid almost a 1/4 more than the other tickets........That's why you can't see the difference.

Exactly, that is what for the longest time, Canadian's could not bet exotics at US tracks at their minimums because when our Canadian dollar was converted, it was below the hosts acceptable min. I remember I had to do a P6 @ 3 CAD a combo because the host would not accept P6's at 2 CAD.

Even now, tracks that have 10 cent supers or 20 cent tris we might have a base of only 20 cents supers and 40 cent tris.

Edit: Example from the last at PrM tonight

$1 Triactor 4 / 8 / 5 $1,093.30
$0.60 Triactor 4 / 8 / 5 $655.98

The min base is probably 50 cents? but the lowest we can do is 60 cents a combo.

thespaah
06-27-2015, 11:50 PM
It look to me that the takeout is applied to the carryover as well as the fresh money.
Yes....The pool is recalculated.....I think it has to be.
Here's my logic....
If there were 10K in the pool. Less the 30% that means 7k available to the winners...No one hits is...Carry over.
The next racing day let's say the handle on that day is.....3K....Bringing the pool back to 10k....with a 30% takeout the pool is...7k.....yes it's all taxed again....
In other words my theory is that the takeout may be calculated on the entire pool EACH day....This may be to insure that bettors are subject to the same takeout as those who originally funded the pool...Kind of crappy...Looks like repeat taxation. But it's not far fetched.
I'm just spitballing here. I could be all wet on this.

EMD4ME
06-28-2015, 12:02 AM
Yes....The pool is recalculated.....I think it has to be.
Here's my logic....
If there were 10K in the pool. Less the 30% that means 7k available to the winners...No one hits is...Carry over.
The next racing day let's say the handle on that day is.....3K....Bringing the pool back to 10k....with a 30% takeout the pool is...7k.....yes it's all taxed again....
In other words my theory is that the takeout may be calculated on the entire pool EACH day....This may be to insure that bettors are subject to the same takeout as those who originally funded the pool...Kind of crappy...Looks like repeat taxation. But it's not far fetched.
I'm just spitballing here. I could be all wet on this.

I always look for the conspiracy but I can't go along with this one. I did the math and there's no way they tax the C/O pool every time.

Plus, if they did, the C/O could go down as not much is bet everyday...

I, of all people, would have noticed that, trust me :)

Some_One
06-28-2015, 12:08 AM
Again, a sincere thank you. That sounds logical. I now wish Twin Spires would show the C/O as CAD dollars and not just a regular number. That mislead me.

Thank you to my neighbor up NORTH :ThmbUp: Appreciate your feedback.

The problem could be Equibase as I see for tomorrow they have $25,416 for Woodbine's Hi5 tomorrow, but I can assure you that is in Canadian.

Compare to the $383,474 Rainbow 6 at GP, HPI has the carryover listed as $479,342.38

EMD4ME
06-28-2015, 12:11 AM
The problem could be Equibase as I see for tomorrow they have $25,416 for Woodbine's Hi5 tomorrow, but I can assure you that is in Canadian.

Compare to the $383,474 Rainbow 6 at GP, HPI has the carryover listed as $479,342.38

I love facts and cold hard truths. You solved this for me and now I know thanks to you.

therussmeister
06-28-2015, 06:42 AM
So what difference does it make if you are paid the whole pool?

Maybe I'm naive or missing it. Seriously, please explain.

Thanks for the reply.
It would be obvious if the Canadians gave their currency some other name besides "dollar".

If you bet Japan races and they had a carryover of 87,000 yen, you would never expect that to convert to 87,000 American dollars.

EMD4ME
06-28-2015, 10:12 AM
ASD confirmed quickly. The carryover is in Canadian dollars. I feel much better now. They should be commended for their quick and detailed response. Thanks to all the informative posters here as well!