Parx Doubling Purses in Fall

[Bigadam119]

What will this do for their fall meet? They will probably have the highest purses in the country during that time frame.

[horses4courses]

Chad Brown is licking his chops......:)

[Shemp Howard]

And cutting overall racing dates 25%.

Will the Pig Penn be next?

[Bigadam119]

And cutting overall racing dates 25%.

Will the Pig Penn be next?

I think the cut was long overdue.

[thespaah]

Can't wait to see that condition book.....
MSW for $80k?....NW1X for $90k....Over night stakes for $125K?
Here's one......
An AOC NW2XOpt $25k 3/up....5F (T)....Purse $44,000
SO in the fall this goes to $88k?....
MSW races go for $42k....X 2 is $84k this fall...
PLUS the 40% bump for any PA bred getting a check?...Wow....Monmouth is going to get killed

[EMD4ME]

Can't wait to see that condition book.....
MSW for $80k?....NW1X for $90k....Over night stakes for $125K?
Here's one......
An AOC NW2XOpt $25k 3/up....5F (T)....Purse $44,000
SO in the fall this goes to $88k?....
MSW races go for $42k....X 2 is $84k this fall...
PLUS the 40% bump for any PA bred getting a check?...Wow....Monmouth is going to get killed

So will NYRA unfortunately. Those 5 horse fields will now be match races.

[thespaah]

So will NYRA unfortunately. Those 5 horse fields will now be match races.
I'm thinking Parx comes up with a few rules to protect the local horsemen
Such as "previous starters at Parx preferred in entries"..

[andtheyreoff]

Can't wait to see that condition book.....
MSW for $80k?....NW1X for $90k....Over night stakes for $125K?
Here's one......
An AOC NW2XOpt $25k 3/up....5F (T)....Purse $44,000
SO in the fall this goes to $88k?....
MSW races go for $42k....X 2 is $84k this fall...
PLUS the 40% bump for any PA bred getting a check?...Wow....Monmouth is going to get killed

Fortunately, it'll only affect the last month of the Monmouth season. Besides, the two-week break in August will benefit Monmouth field sizes in that span.

But as EMD4Me mentioned, Belmont's gonna be dead during their fall meet. I think Laurel may take a hit, too.

[Tom]

Belmont only needs 27 horse a day. :rolleyes:

Too much purse money. The horse do not justify it and they won't draw that many better horses to the every day card. Monmouth did this and the result was garbage racing.

[EMD4ME]

I'm thinking Parx comes up with a few rules to protect the local horsemen
Such as "previous starters at Parx preferred in entries"..

I hope so. I don't bet a nickel at Parx. Love NYRA

[castaway01]

Belmont only needs 27 horse a day. :rolleyes:

Too much purse money. The horse do not justify it and they won't draw that many better horses to the every day card. Monmouth did this and the result was garbage racing.

Yeah, handle went up 213 percent, and field size went from 7.44 to 9.28 per race. What garbage racing that was. I'm sure Parx would hate to see that happen.

[Dave Schwartz]

Yeah, handle went up 213 percent, and field size went from 7.44 to 9.28 per race. What garbage racing that was. I'm sure Parx would hate to see that happen.


Castaway,

Yes, and 3-5 horses per race were not trying to win; just there to show a profit on the purse for showing up. The races became unplayable.

As I recall, the horsemen said, "We loved it. Let's do it again."

Track management said, "We lost $6m."

The horsemen said, "We loved it. Let's do it again."

[proximity]

And cutting overall racing dates 25%.

Will the Pig Penn be next?

sorry about your ryno jersey.

maybe the kids could exchange it for a maikel franco jersey or a certain black/red pique knit 6.5 oz 100% sport shirt?

[alhattab]

Fortunately, it'll only affect the last month of the Monmouth season. Besides, the two-week break in August will benefit Monmouth field sizes in that span.

But as EMD4Me mentioned, Belmont's gonna be dead during their fall meet. I think Laurel may take a hit, too.

Should be a net benefit to Mth. The September meet at Mth is just filler. Having Prx closed in August will be a big help just as the local horse population is beginning to thin out after 2-3 months of racing.

[pandy]

This makes sense for Parx, closing in August, higher purses in the fall. The year Monmouth had the higher purses I personally thought the racing was much better than it is now, but the track did not see enough increase in handle. If they could combine the higher purses with lower takeout I think it would work.

[JohnGalt1]

If Parx has enough dough to double purses, does this mean they are cutting take out by 50%?

Some may think me naïve, but I truly believe that race track owners are excellent business people. :lol:

[Tom]

Castaway,

Yes, and 3-5 horses per race were not trying to win; just there to show a profit on the purse for showing up. The races became unplayable.

As I recall, the horsemen said, "We loved it. Let's do it again."

Track management said, "We lost $6m."

The horsemen said, "We loved it. Let's do it again."

And the ridiculous claiming races - 4-5 claims in a race, sometimes multiple claims for horse taking huge unrealistic drop in class just for the easy purses.

What is good the horsemen is seldom good for the bettors.
My thoughts are purse are far too high everywhere. There needs to be a reason to force horses to run more often.

[Donttellmeshowme]

And this is a 3 year agreement. Are they phasing out horse racing at Parx? Will Penn and other tracks be next? Maryland?

[Bigadam119]

And this is a 3 year agreement. Are they phasing out horse racing at Parx? Will Penn and other tracks be next? Maryland?

As of right now, their Casino license depends on racing. If that changes then it could be the beginning of the end.

[proximity]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/92745/parx-to-add-fall-festival-cut-total-dates?source=rss

the last two paragraphs of the article kinda imply that maybe someone got in the horsemen's ear and convinced them that business as usual isn't going to be good enough continuing forward. they seem on board with things.

[Stillriledup]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/92745/parx-to-add-fall-festival-cut-total-dates?source=rss

the last two paragraphs of the article kinda imply that maybe someone got in the horsemen's ear and convinced them that business as usual isn't going to be good enough continuing forward. they seem on board with things.

They think people are idiots and that the doubled purses will get bigger handle, bettors care about takeouts, parx could have done three things in one fell swoop. 1. Announce this purse increase like they did. 2. Lower takeouts 3. Say cheating and business as usual will not be tolerated.

Why act all happy that these horsemen are going to have more money to buy mercedes benzes and pina colada mix? Whats in this for the player?

[Shemp Howard]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/92745/parx-to-add-fall-festival-cut-total-dates?source=rss

the last two paragraphs of the article kinda imply that maybe someone got in the horsemen's ear and convinced them that business as usual isn't going to be good enough continuing forward. they seem on board with things.


I wonder how many 5th place finishes a stable can produce in a 100 day meet?

[Saratoga_Mike]

I wonder how many 5th place finishes a stable can produce in a 100 day meet?

Are you asked constantly how your MHR worked out? No. Try extending the same courtesy to a small-time trainer who has no impact on you.

[VeryOldMan]

Why act all happy that these horsemen are going to have more money to buy mercedes benzes and pina colada mix? Whats in this for the player?
Testify.

How does this advance the sport? Sure the horsemen love the ability to race for bloated purses for two months, but how does this help in the long run?

30 percent takeout on verticals and 26 percent on horizontals vs. the actual customer. Bloated purses attracting fields that may just be there to collect distant finisher money. No thanks.

[proximity]

They think people are idiots and that the doubled purses will get bigger handle, bettors care about takeouts, parx could have done three things in one fell swoop. 1. Announce this purse increase like they did. 2. Lower takeouts 3. Say cheating and business as usual will not be tolerated.

Why act all happy that these horsemen are going to have more money to buy mercedes benzes and pina colada mix? Whats in this for the player?

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1841430&postcount=2

(1)as horses4courses very astutely pointed out in the 2nd post on this thread, pennsylvania horsemen have agreed to something that isn't necessarily a short term benefit to them. this almost NEVER happens in racing.

(2) it's not easy to just suddenly lower the takeout. (other tracks will rebel against the signal and other hurdles) it would be much easier for PARX itself to aggressively bump up its own player rewards. this is something that's mostly on the track/casino though.... not the horsemen.

(3) just because things didn't work out to my satisfaction in pennsylvania (and i actually live there) doesn't mean i automatically have to turn bitter and can't be happy for some of the owners who may actually use the slots money to reinvest in the sport.

[proximity]

I wonder how many 5th place finishes a stable can produce in a 100 day meet?

i'd say that man should go west and attack some of the new slots purses in ohio?

i don't mean to knock the man with this suggestion, as at 8%, he's becoming a trainer.

at the end of the day though horseman (him)>railbird (me) and he'll do what he wants.

[Shemp Howard]

I don't know, Dimitrios K. Synnefias has become really dependent on the free donuts he gets showing up Saturday morning's for the ever popular "Meet The Trainer's Not Yet Indicted" program. Someone asked him this AM how can you tell the horses asses at Penn?

[forced89]

I like it. I have a piece of 3 unraced Maidens in training at Parx. Hopefully my trainer will wait for the higher purses before starting any of them.

[thaskalos]

Will the horseplayers still have to pay a 30% takeout on their trifecta bets...even AFTER Parx doubles the purses?

[thespaah]

As of right now, their Casino license depends on racing. If that changes then it could be the beginning of the end.
I think any separation from racing/casino ( for tracks) may require a change to the PA State Constitution....I think..

[thespaah]

This makes sense for Parx, closing in August, higher purses in the fall. The year Monmouth had the higher purses I personally thought the racing was much better than it is now, but the track did not see enough increase in handle. If they could combine the higher purses with lower takeout I think it would work.
http://www.agriculture.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt/gateway/PTARGS_6_2_24476_10297_0_43/AgWebsite/Files/Publications/2015%20Horse%20and%20Harness%20Take%20out%20rates. pdf\
For the most part rates in PA are confiscatory....
Pen charges 28% on all horizontal wagers. 31% on TRI
30% on p/6 and SUP
Parx is 30% on TRI/SUP
26% on horizontal wagers.
The lowest take out on any wager is at Harrah's Philly 15% on P4
How the hell can a track increase handle with those "avoid" rates.
There are math whizzes on here who can quickly calculate the minimum win % just to break even...

[pandy]

Disgusting takeouts at these PA. tracks. However, the politicians appear to like it, they just threw more money at the harness racing industry in PA., providing money for increased sire stakes races to boost the PA. breeding industry, which is already strong.

[thespaah]

Disgusting takeouts at these PA. tracks. However, the politicians appear to like it, they just threw more money at the harness racing industry in PA., providing money for increased sire stakes races to boost the PA. breeding industry, which is already strong.
Of course the politicians like it. More for them to spend.
Yes, the PASS has always been a strong program.

[Stillriledup]

Will the horseplayers still have to pay a 30% takeout on their trifecta bets...even AFTER Parx doubles the purses?

if you see someone that looks like a Parx trainer at the Jersey shore laying in the sand sipping a piña colada than you'll know the purse raise has started. meanwhile back at the farm, horseplayers will still be trudging around the old Keystone racetrack kicking over discarded tickets while wearing 'holey' shoes. No 'soup' for them.

[biggestal99]

Can't wait to see that condition book.....
MSW for $80k?....NW1X for $90k....Over night stakes for $125K?
Here's one......
An AOC NW2XOpt $25k 3/up....5F (T)....Purse $44,000
SO in the fall this goes to $88k?....
MSW races go for $42k....X 2 is $84k this fall...
PLUS the 40% bump for any PA bred getting a check?...Wow....Monmouth is going to get killed

Monmouth doesn't race in the fall.

Allan

[Tom]

Will the horseplayers still have to pay a 30% takeout on their trifecta bets...even AFTER Parx doubles the purses?

90%

[Redboard]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/92745/parx-to-add-fall-festival-cut-total-dates?source=rss

the last two paragraphs of the article kinda imply that maybe someone got in the horsemen's ear and convinced them that business as usual isn't going to be good enough continuing forward. they seem on board with things.

This is fantastic news. :ThmbUp:

The article talks about improving the paddock, which is a good idea. Parx needs a paddock like Monmouth or Delaware Park. Don't know if they have the room, but it would make the place much more appealing to the general public. If AP ran there it would be unbelievable.

[pandy]

Long overdue. The place needs a facelift. That is good news.

[therussmeister]

This is fantastic news. :ThmbUp:

The article talks about improving the paddock, which is a good idea. Parx needs a paddock like Monmouth or Delaware Park. Don't know if they have the room, but it would make the place much more appealing to the general public. If AP ran there it would be unbelievable.
If Parx wants to make the paddock more appealing to the general public, they should put slot machines in there.

[Cholly]

If Parx wants to make the paddock more appealing to the general public, they should put slot machines in there.
Croyez ceux qui cherchent la vérité, doutez de ceux qui la trouvent; doutez de tout, mais ne doutez pas de vous-même.

Believe those who seek the truth, doubt those who find it; doubt all, but do not doubt yourself.
-André Gide

Move over “the train will pass and the pups will hush”, Cholly has a new favorite signature line! Thank you Mr. Russ. This will join my pantheon of all time great signature lines such as “If you meet the Buddha at the track, kill him”. Of course, the gold standard for signature lines remains “That rug really held the room together”

[Thomas Roulston]

But do these "elite meets" ever work out?

Monmouth Park is on what, its third now.

[onefast99]

Belmont only needs 27 horse a day. :rolleyes:

Too much purse money. The horse do not justify it and they won't draw that many better horses to the every day card. Monmouth did this and the result was garbage racing.
Rarely if ever do I disagree with you here, but that comment about MP was dead wrong. The racing was competitive with full fields(averaged over 9 horses per race) for that "boutique meet" yes it wasn't a million a day(purse size averaged $67k a race) but there was lots of action and plenty of claims(claims were up 63%)there were more shakes then ever, there were many times 10-12 or more went in on a claim. One horse alone Indys Forum had over 15 in for her! Parx will have the same results.

[Tom]

It wasn't good for the bettors.
When you have nickel claimers going for 30
K and horses dropping left and right for easy purse money, you have garbage racing.

[onefast99]

It wasn't good for the bettors.
When you have nickel claimers going for 30
K and horses dropping left and right for easy purse money, you have garbage racing.
It made the fields better go look at the payouts! And every race wasn't for a nickel claimer! In fact there were many allowance races thats why so many NY horses took the race and return van over....

[onefast99]

It wasn't good for the bettors.
When you have nickel claimers going for 30
K and horses dropping left and right for easy purse money, you have garbage racing.
40% of MP's racing card was claiming events for the million a day meet. Belmonts numbers were 28% claiming during that same time frame. Most of MP's claiming races were open claimers not restricted while Belmont had 80% conditioned claiming races. Of the 63 claiming races run at MP 25 were for 10k and below. MP also carded 17 stakes races.

[pandy]

I thought the Monmouth cards were much better that year. Now it's all cheap horses.

[onefast99]

I thought the Monmouth cards were much better that year. Now it's all cheap horses.
According to a few here that meet was all claimers and nothing more. And based on the actual numbers it wasn't. Racing was excellent, until now no one complained.

[Tom]

According to a few here that meet was all claimers and nothing more. And based on the actual numbers it wasn't. Racing was excellent, until now no one complained.

I complained back then and stopped playing the track altogether.
I am just now getting back to playing it this year.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70632&highlight=nickel+claimers


Post 68

[onefast99]

I complained back then and stopped playing the track altogether.
I am just now getting back to playing it this year.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70632&highlight=nickel+claimers


Post 68
For that amount of purse money, I expected BETTER than NJ Breds and a nickel claimer. I think the purse money is being wasted and not bringing in good fields.

$80K purse for horses that would be hard pressed to hit the board at Finger Lakes.

As I said the numbers don't lie 40% were claiming races of which 39% were 10k and under claimers. That leaves a hell of a lot of races to bet on including 17 stakes races. Unless you just happened to only view the claimers then yes your view was tainted...

[Redboard]

Disgusting takeouts at these PA. tracks. However, the politicians appear to like it, they just threw more money at the harness racing industry in PA., providing money for increased sire stakes races to boost the PA. breeding industry, which is already strong.

Parx takeout on the WPS is 17%; the exacta is 20%. This is about par for the industry.

The other exotic bets they maul. I only play Win/Exacta there.

[Track Collector]

This makes sense for Parx, closing in August, higher purses in the fall.

This might help the fields at Delaware. The bottom rung can head for Timonium in late August! :jump:

[thespaah]

But do these "elite meets" ever work out?

Monmouth Park is on what, its third now.
Keeneland does it twice every year

[castaway01]

Castaway,

Yes, and 3-5 horses per race were not trying to win; just there to show a profit on the purse for showing up. The races became unplayable.

As I recall, the horsemen said, "We loved it. Let's do it again."

Track management said, "We lost $6m."

The horsemen said, "We loved it. Let's do it again."

So the races were unplayable but handle was up 213%? Could you explain how that works? I bet most tracks wish they were 1/100 that unplayable.

And yes, Monmouth does not have the money to put up huge purses every year but Parx is flush with slot money and could do this every year if they wanted.

[Tom]

Obviously, you love Mth and PRX - have at it.
I will pass.
I have yet to see the benefits of large purses.
Cut them in half and you will probably get more horses to race more often. They will have too make money.

[pandy]

Parx takeout on the WPS is 17%; the exacta is 20%. This is about par for the industry.

The other exotic bets they maul. I only play Win/Exacta there.

I bet there, I like Parx racing, but I don't bet the trifecta.

[onefast99]

Obviously, you love Mth and PRX - have at it.
I will pass.
I have yet to see the benefits of large purses.
Cut them in half and you will probably get more horses to race more often. They will have too make money.
Large purses draw more horses as evidenced during the boutique meet at MP compared to Belmonts average of 7 per race to MP's just slightly over 9 per race during the same period of time.

[Tom]

Like I said, I don't give crap.
Many races were terrible.

[onefast99]

Like I said, I don't give crap.
Many races were terrible.
As I said I don't disagree with you ever your opinion matters as does mine but the numbers don't lie.