Saratoga charging for picninc tables

[Kash$]

Is this new?Reading twitter people are going off..Is it that big of a deal?

[JustRalph]

http://www.dailygazette.com/news/2015/jun/22/nyra-charge-picnic-carousel-tables-saratoga/?dgzrg

$100 bucks for Travers day.......

I guess if there is a market, why not. If it cuts down on the mad rush and the cooler carrying sprint to the tables......why not

[Rutgers]

No, read the article.

https://www.nyra.com/saratoga/saratoga-race-course-to-offer-new-enhanced-hospitality-areas-for-2015-meet/?f=y

They added tables.

[Kash$]

$35 weekday
$50 weekends
$100 Travers
4 people

[Tom]

Not the same place it used to be......

[EMD4ME]

I see nothing wrong with what they did. They still have the same amount of free first come first serve picnic tables. What they added was a series of purchase able upon demand picnic tables so you don't have to make a mad rush to get a picnic table.

[thespaah]

I have never sat or even hung out near the paddock except when we went ot that bar near the entrance to the path leading to to the track..
As long as there are plenty of first come first served tables, I am good with it.
If there are those who consider the Carousel or the paddock area to be 'premium', let them pay up....
To be frank, there are those who do get a little stupid in their methods of 'reserving' a table. Yeah we've done the breakfast at Saratoga entry and left behind a cooler and a table cloth...
The practice that used to annoy me was those who would drag the tables across the grass and stick two together. Then late that day see 4 or maybe 5 people using them.
I think NYRA made moving the tables a no-no...

[Saratoga_Mike]

Not the same place it used to be......

You're right - with all the new TVs, added seating and food options, it's even better.

[Tom]

I'll pass.

[thespaah]

You're right - with all the new TVs, added seating and food options, it's even better.
:ThmbUp:
While NYRA is capitalizing on the demands of the marketplace, I believe NYRA is also doing a decent job in keeping the costs down and is also making efforts to hold onto some traditions.
Adding tables in more desirable areas where none or few have been before then charging for their use is ok. That's just responding to demand.
Bumping up admission is also a response to demand. And if one really looks at this rationally, nowhere does a day long sporting event cost so little to witness.
I'm NOT one of these people that bends knee at the NYRA altar. If I don't think they are doing it right, I have no qualms on about calling them on it.
This one is ok....
If NYRA ever goes so far as to take a page from the airline industry, with their fees and fees for the fees and how carriers literally charge their customers for charging them, I will have made my final trip to Saratoga.
I don't see it ever getting there though.

[DeltaLover]

I do not care the least about picnic tables, so if they feel there is a market for it, let them go for $100 reservation prices ( why not try for something even higher as well? I've heard that a table for four in the Breeders Cup can go up to $25K)

What hits me as a surprise though, is that according to the article, an AP appearance on the SPA, should be considered a long-shot.. How can that be true?

[thespaah]

I do not care the least about picnic tables, so if they feel there is a market for it, let them go for $100 reservation prices ( why not try for something even higher as well? I've heard that a table for four in the Breeders Cup can go up to $25K)

What hits me as a surprise though, is that according to the article, an AP appearance on the SPA, should be considered a long-shot.. How can that be true?
That's speculation on the part of the reporter. In other words, another example of crappy journalism.
How in the hell does the writer know what the intentions of AP connections will be?...
Baffert hasn't said a word.
At least to my knowledge..
And it is highly likely that no matter where the horse goes to race this summer, the owners will receive some kind of appearance fee. Or a substantial bump in purse size.
I just hope it doesn't turn into a circus. Especially with the non racing media. The ones that would not know Prime Stock from Livestock, get sent by their editors to cover the story of AP and don't do their homework, use improper terminology, ask STUPID questions and don't worry about the facts.

[Rise Over Run]

Whatever NYRA needs to do to pay for the free HD video I get on their website, I'm all for.

[Redboard]

Attendance was down last year so the logical step would be to raise prices, which will lower attendance and reduce on-track betting, the lifeblood for virtually all tracks. One problem I see is that I believe that some of those tables are uncovered, so if you bought tickets in advance, can you get a refund in bad weather? Good luck with that.

I’ve never sat at the tables and never saw the appeal. It might make for a nice picnic, but you have to look at a monitor to see the races. Or else get up and fight your way to the rail which fills up quickly on weekends.

[PaceAdvantage]

I'm sure if attendance suffers due to whatever policy initiatives, they will revisit the changes and decide if it was indeed a wise move...

[thespaah]

UGH....NYRA has contracted "The Parasite" to sell the reservations for the picnic tables. And of course TM's 'convenience fees' will bump up the cost by another 10 to 15%....That SUCKS......
http://view.newsletter.nyra.com/?j=fefc1676706105&m=fe8f137275630c7876&ls=fe671771776c047a7517&l=ff2a17787061&s=fe5e15767264017f7211&jb=ffcf14&ju=fec012757260067a&r=0

[Saratoga_Mike]

I'm sure if attendance suffers due to whatever policy initiatives, they will revisit the changes and decide if it was indeed a wise move...

Moreover....

"According to NYRA, paid attendance totaled 972,018, for a daily average of 24,300, despite a policy change that no longer included figures for patrons going through the turnstiles multiple times in order to get giveaways, as had been the previous practice. This year, NYRA instituted a voucher system for giveaways. Also included in the 2014 daily figures are 6,000 season passes, whether they are used are not.

During the 40-day 2013 meet, when multiple admissions for giveaways were included, attendance totaled 867,182 for a daily average 21,679"

On-track handle was up 2%.

Source: Bloodhorse

[Stillriledup]

UGH....NYRA has contracted "The Parasite" to sell the reservations for the picnic tables. And of course TM's 'convenience fees' will bump up the cost by another 10 to 15%....That SUCKS......
http://view.newsletter.nyra.com/?j=fefc1676706105&m=fe8f137275630c7876&ls=fe671771776c047a7517&l=ff2a17787061&s=fe5e15767264017f7211&jb=ffcf14&ju=fec012757260067a&r=0

Funny you should post this as i just got an e mail from some Vegas casinos saying that its now 100 dollars for a reserved seat in the racebook, 10 dollars for mandatory valet parking for racing customers as well as a 21.69 cent admission fee w the 1.69 going as a 'convenience' for the person who processed the request. :liar:

But, all kidding aside, Vegas is free to park, enter and sit and oh yeah, if you sign up for a players club card at most places you get some kickbacks, 5 pct on some wagers.

[PaceAdvantage]

Funny you should post this as i just got an e mail from some Vegas casinos saying that its now 100 dollars for a reserved seat in the racebook, 10 dollars for mandatory valet parking for racing customers as well as a 21.69 cent admission fee w the 1.69 going as a 'convenience' for the person who processed the request. :liar:

But, all kidding aside, Vegas is free to park, enter and sit and oh yeah, if you sign up for a players club card at most places you get some kickbacks, 5 pct on some wagers.I'm sure if you had 10 racetracks all lined up on the same block at Saratoga, they'd all be doing similar types of promotions...

[Stillriledup]

I'm sure if you had 10 racetracks all lined up on the same block at Saratoga, they'd all be doing similar types of promotions...

But you COULD have 10 'racetracks' lined up if you fly to Vegas instead of Ballston Spa NY

Also, if you go to vegas, much less chance of getting rained on, in fact its basically zero, no raincoats necessary. :D

[dilanesp]

Saratoga is an overcrowded facility with enormous demand. of course NYRA,should charge as much as possible, get an upper crust crowd that spends tons of money, and keep out the cheapos. this is what anyone running a resort does.

[dilanesp]

I'm sure if you had 10 racetracks all lined up on the same block at Saratoga, they'd all be doing similar types of promotions...

And also Vegas has slot machines, and table games, and expensive shows.

i am sick of the Vegas is free argument. Vegas isn't free, it's SUBSIDIZED. there are big piles of revenue from other sources that casinos use to make some things cheap or free there. race tracks don't have those piles of revenue, and also have to pay the steep cost of putting on the races.

[Redboard]

Moreover....

"According to NYRA, paid attendance totaled 972,018, for a daily average of 24,300, despite a policy change that no longer included figures for patrons going through the turnstiles multiple times in order to get giveaways, as had been the previous practice. This year, NYRA instituted a voucher system for giveaways. Also included in the 2014 daily figures are 6,000 season passes, whether they are used are not.

During the 40-day 2013 meet, when multiple admissions for giveaways were included, attendance totaled 867,182 for a daily average 21,679"

On-track handle was up 2%.

Source: Bloodhorse


So, they raised turnstile prices and the attendance went up? I Don't believe it. NYRA adjusted the figures so they wouldn't look bad. I've been going the past 12 years for two week stretches, and the place just didn't look as full. There were stories in the local paper about empty seats and NYRA's refusal to release attendance figures. They may have finally did that, after the fact.

[Stillriledup]

And also Vegas has slot machines, and table games, and expensive shows.

i am sick of the Vegas is free argument. Vegas isn't free, it's SUBSIDIZED. there are big piles of revenue from other sources that casinos use to make some things cheap or free there. race tracks don't have those piles of revenue, and also have to pay the steep cost of putting on the races.

But nobody cares. As long as its free for them, thats all they care about.

[Saratoga_Mike]

So, they raised turnstile prices and the attendance went up? I Don't believe it. NYRA adjusted the figures so they wouldn't look bad. I've been going the past 12 years for two week stretches, and the place just didn't look as full. There were stories in the local paper about empty seats and NYRA's refusal to release attendance figures. They may have finally did that, after the fact.

The Post-Star reported attendance during and after the meet. And it isn't unheard for a business to raise ticket prices while demand is flat - see every US-based publicly traded theater chain. People on here make that claim (i.e., tracks are crazy raising seat or ticket prices) all the time, just not true. It depends on the life cycle of a business.

[Redboard]

The Post-Star reported attendance during and after the meet. And it isn't unheard for a business to raise ticket prices while demand is flat - see every US-based publicly traded theater chain. People on here make that claim (i.e., tracks are crazy raising seat or ticket prices) all the time, just not true. It depends on the life cycle of a business.

Ok. Fair enough. But you have to admit they did change the way the count attendance, which was suspicious after the rate hike.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Ok. Fair enough. But you have to admit they did change the way the count attendance, which was suspicious after the rate hike.

But the change was disclosed and explained - one change hurt and one helped, at least that's how I see it. We'll see how they do this year.

[thespaah]

But you COULD have 10 'racetracks' lined up if you fly to Vegas instead of Ballston Spa NY

Also, if you go to vegas, much less chance of getting rained on, in fact its basically zero, no raincoats necessary. :D
Well, to those who are not interested in going to the track AND have the means to travel and stay in Vegas, more power to them.
Quite frankly, save for the off season, the average American has been priced out of Vegas for many years.

[thespaah]

Saratoga is an overcrowded facility with enormous demand. of course NYRA,should charge as much as possible, get an upper crust crowd that spends tons of money, and keep out the cheapos. this is what anyone running a resort does.
Oh..Cater to the snobs to the exclusion of the great unwashed masses?
How about NYRA just turns Saratoga into Royal Ascot?....

[horses4courses]

How about NYRA just turns Saratoga into Royal Ascot?....

I'll go in halves with you on a tux and top hat rental business ;)

[thespaah]

Ok. Fair enough. But you have to admit they did change the way the count attendance, which was suspicious after the rate hike.
They didn't change anything. Not in the sense that NYRA is doing things differently than other sporting venues.
For example, when one sees the attendance for last night's game at Citi Field, the number might say 30,000 but there may be a few thousand less than that because the NY Mets like any other sports franchise counts the attendance as number of tickets sold.
it is what it is.....
Now, if handle at Saratoga was up 2% I would speculate the over all number of people actually going through the turnstiles was up as well because per capita on track wagering has been about the same for years.

[thespaah]

I'll go in halves with you on a tux and top hat rental business ;)
:lol: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[ultracapper]

Oh..Cater to the snobs to the exclusion of the great unwashed masses?
How about NYRA just turns Saratoga into Royal Ascot?....

So if you ran a business, The "Mr. Thespaah, Inc." and people with means were able and willing to purchase your popular product for $10X, you'd still only charge $X because you'd want everybody to be able to afford your product. Let me add that your product is not a necessity in any way. It's purely entertainment and if the "unwashed masses" are unable to afford it, it really won't impact their life one way or another.

[Redboard]

The New York Racing Association held its annual pre-Saratoga press conference on Monday to highlight what it perceives to be the significant improvements it is bringing to this year’s meet. The competition for what is the biggest outrage announced by CEO Chris Kay is expected to be intense.

◾Removing six large trees near the Carousel in order to build a museum. The “museum” will house memorabilia of those honored as “Red Jacket” recipients, a Kay innovation supposedly to honor those who made a significant contribution to Saratoga, according to Mike Kane in TDN.com. While one cannot criticize those selected – this year it is Mary Lou Whitney and Dinny Phipps – one suspects it is really a tribute to Chris Kay.

◾Eliminating the decades-long tradition of an open house, as well as the Wait Trials, on the Sunday before the meet opens. It is an event that brought thousands to the track, many of whom were families with kids, and supported local non-profit organizations. The kids got to wander around the track, go for pony rides, pet animals in a petting zoo, and eat all the junk kids love to eat at sporting venues. According to Kay, he has a better idea – as he always does – of family fun days on Mondays. Last year, this was a small area where dozens – not thousands – of kids could play in a bounce house and perhaps pet a pony. NYRA’s other CEO – Chief Experience Officer Lynn LaRocca – said the event was a lot of work with little return for the non-profits, according to Teresa Genaro writing in BloodHorse.com. In what appears to be a remarkable coincidence, it is also an event in which NYRA had not yet figured out a way to get its own taste.

◾Adding another 100 picnic tables in the backyard, in addition to the 100 added last year. Oh, and NYRA will be charging for those 100 – $40 on weekdays, $60 on weekends and $125 on Travers Day. If you thought getting to the paddock was difficult last year, wait until you try to navigate among those who paid to be there. The kids who loved getting an up-close look at horses? They can come back on Monday’s family fun day.

◾Charging for tables in the lower level of the Carousel. Kay is bringing “premium hospitality” to the area, removing the plastic rows of chairs to replace them with tables – for which, of course, you will have to pay: $35 for a weekday table for four to $125 for a table of six on Travers Day.

Read more at…. http://tenoonan.com/tag/saratoga-race-meet/

[Rise Over Run]

http://tenoonan.com/tag/saratoga-race-meet/
He's yet another confirmed Nattering Naybob of NYRA Negativity. Oh, but he's more than ready to take your money to fund a racing partnership that races horses at..... you guessed it, NYRA tracks.

[Stillriledup]

Well, to those who are not interested in going to the track AND have the means to travel and stay in Vegas, more power to them.
Quite frankly, save for the off season, the average American has been priced out of Vegas for many years.

If you're priced out of vegas you're really priced out of Saratoga. Still cheaper to fly to vegas, get a decent hotel and bet horses for free and get comped while you are at it, still much cheaper than the Spa.

AND, get this, you don't get rained on! :D

[1GCFAN]

They are charging for Carousel tables as well. Made the mistake of ordering on phone from the NYRA site and paid twice the going rate for two days. I ordered the other two days on Ticketmaster for face value and a small service charge.

[Saratoga_Mike]

If you're priced out of vegas you're really priced out of Saratoga. Still cheaper to fly to vegas, get a decent hotel and bet horses for free and get comped while you are at it, still much cheaper than the Spa.

AND, get this, you don't get rained on! :D

You said it well...you get what you pay for. If I never go to Vegas again, it will be too soon.

More rain in Saratoga...more scorching sun in Vegas.

[thespaah]

So if you ran a business, The "Mr. Thespaah, Inc." and people with means were able and willing to purchase your popular product for $10X, you'd still only charge $X because you'd want everybody to be able to afford your product. Let me add that your product is not a necessity in any way. It's purely entertainment and if the "unwashed masses" are unable to afford it, it really won't impact their life one way or another.
Perhaps you should skip the question mark, make your statement and move along.
Since you opened the door...
Lets say for example the venue was new. I had my marketing people research the demographics of potential customers. I would also have them look at the potential for people to travel from out of town....I would then based on that research set my prices and policies.
Now, back to reality. Saratoga is NOT a new venue. NYRA has a wide variety of means to gain entry to the track. It should stay that way. In other words, if it ain't broke, don't fix it...There are plenty of options for the higher wealth people at Saratoga.
Yes I would price the product appropriately, but I would also be careful not to alienate part of my customer base.
Surely you are not suggesting NYRA take Saratoga and make it into a private country club enclave for the blue bloods and their friends?
BTW, Who cannot afford it?

[Saratoga_Mike]

Perhaps you should skip the question mark, make your statement and move along.
Since you opened the door...
Lets say for example the venue was new. I had my marketing people research the demographics of potential customers. I would also have them look at the potential for people to travel from out of town....I would then based on that research set my prices and policies.
Now, back to reality. Saratoga is NOT a new venue. NYRA has a wide variety of means to gain entry to the track. It should stay that way. In other words, if it ain't broke, don't fix it...There are plenty of options for the higher wealth people at Saratoga.
Yes I would price the product appropriately, but I would also be careful not to alienate part of my customer base.
Surely you are not suggesting NYRA take Saratoga and make it into a private country club enclave for the blue bloods and their friends?
BTW, Who cannot afford it?

I understand where you're coming from, and it ain't broke (agree with you). But posters constantly complain that tracks aren't run like other businesses (unsure if you're in this camp, so please don't take offense). NYRA is making a business decision. They see demand for paid seating. Therefore, they're offering it.

[dilanesp]

I understand where you're coming from, and it ain't broke (agree with you). But posters constantly complain that tracks aren't run like other businesses (unsure if you're in this camp, so please don't take offense). NYRA is making a business decision. They see demand for paid seating. Therefore, they're offering it.

And it isn't as though NYRA is just rolling in money. Saratoga is a cash cow, and a resort. No intelligent businessperson would not do the sorts of things NYRA is doing.

As for "alienating customers", not all customers are equal. If they alienate a few people who don't contribute much to their bottom line while attracting and extracting more money from people who do, that's a no-brainer

[KingChas]

Let me get this straight.
The idea is to reserve a picnic table with cash to avoid the crowds onslaught rush to get to a table to save it when the gates open.
But ..... there are still some free tables just not as many now......correct?
So this will make the rush for the free tables less chaotic ,right?
Since there are less tables to rush too of course......................... :bang:
Hello!................Chris/NYRA....Duh!

[Saratoga_Mike]

Let me get this straight.
The idea is to reserve a picnic table with cash to avoid the crowds onslaught rush to get to a table to save it when the gates open.
But ..... there are still some free tables just not as many now......correct?
So this will make the rush for the free tables less chaotic ,right?
Since there are less tables to rush too of course......................... :bang:
Hello!................Chris/NYRA....Duh!

NYRA indicated the change would help manage demand and allow people (who opt to pay) to enjoy a leisurely day at the track without fighting for a table. By manage demand, he means "people are willing to pay for a choice table, so we're going to charge for choice tables."

Nowhere does NYRA claim the change will result in a more orderly rush to free tables. Ralph said that, or something close to it. There's no "duh" involved, just a revenue-generating idea.

[KingChas]

NYRA indicated the change would help manage demand and allow people (who opt to pay) to enjoy a leisurely day at the track without fighting for a table.

Yea,just let those poor people who (opt not to pay) fight.
NYRA got it right.......... ;)

[foregoforever]

Maybe I'm weird, but I couldn't care less about the picnic tables. I'm annoyed that they're cutting down 6 large trees near the Carousel to put up that stupid "Red Jacket" museum.

Defacing those beautiful grounds for the sake of political pandering is disgraceful.

[KingChas]

Maybe I'm weird, but I couldn't care less about the picnic tables.

Your not weird,I agree I never would sit in the picnic area.
I can watch the whole Spa meet on a screen at home.
At the track I want to see the races live.
What I don't like about this is,the people who don't get tables in the picnic area now will move somewhere else.Will that be the track apron or the benches around betting windows?
Now we have 6 adults who are not watching their 12 young children run around all day.(X HOW MANY GROUPS)
Some of these people belong in the picnic area.

[thespaah]

I understand where you're coming from, and it ain't broke (agree with you). But posters constantly complain that tracks aren't run like other businesses (unsure if you're in this camp, so please don't take offense). NYRA is making a business decision. They see demand for paid seating. Therefore, they're offering it.
BINGO!....As previously stated, if the marketplace indicates a demand for a product, sell it.
As long as the new items are 'in addition to' as opposed to 'instead of', I'm ok with it.

[thespaah]

If you're priced out of vegas you're really priced out of Saratoga. Still cheaper to fly to vegas, get a decent hotel and bet horses for free and get comped while you are at it, still much cheaper than the Spa.

AND, get this, you don't get rained on! :D
Not from here it isn't.....A discounted coach fare to Vegas from Charlotte exceeds $500 pp round trip.
I can get to Upstate NY in 12 hours and spend less then $50 on gas...And I have MY CAR when I get there....
Lodging is no concern as I have friends I stay with. Or I can get a nice place to stay up near lake George for under $150 per night. Some of the mom and pop motels are half that.
And I don't need a fist full of fives and tens so I can tip half the population of North Las Vegas. Vegas is the gratuity capital of the universe. If you're walking on the side walk and some one says "excuse me", you gotta hand them cash..
Ok, that's an absurdity to make a point. I view Las Vegas as a place where one has to spend a lot of money to get their entertainment and meals.
I have friends who now avoid the touristy hotels in North Las Vegas and go to the hotels downtown.

[thespaah]

Your not weird,I agree I never would sit in the picnic area.
I can watch the whole Spa meet on a screen at home.
At the track I want to see the races live.
What I don't like about this is,the people who don't get tables in the picnic area now will move somewhere else.Will that be the track apron or the benches around betting windows?
Now we have 6 adults who are not watching their 12 young children run around all day.(X HOW MANY GROUPS)
Some of these people belong in the picnic area.
Ok...But Saratoga is supposed to be a break from the grind of your everyday handicapping and betting. Its a place to relax and enjoy the day while trying to make a few bucks.
BTW I agree with your point on the adults who cut their little cupcakes loose to wreak havoc on everyone else.
They get there with there fishing boat sized coolers full of beer and other alco beverages, get themselves smashed, while their offspring are left to run around spilling their drinks on total strangers. And the women pushing around these strollers that are as big as rickshaws who expect everyone else to get out of their way as though THEIR kid is the most important thing since the invention of the ATM...
Over the 35 plus years I have been going to the Spa, I have learned to deal with it. We establish our space and for the most part people there respect that.
It is the newbs who don't know any better who think the world revolves around them that can make things uncomfortable for others.
Through it all, I enjoy Saratoga immensely.

[MOG4023]

And the women pushing around these strollers that are as big as rickshaws .


I love this, never heard it put that way before but often so true and not just at The Spa.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Yea,just let those poor people who (opt not to pay) fight.
NYRA got it right.......... ;)

Where do the wealthy sit at other sporting events? No different...sorry it offends your egalitarian sensibilities.

As for the fighting over tables, it really only happens on Travers Day. And it's more of a mad dash, not fighting. NYRA does need to change that process on Travers Day, though, as they're setting themselves up for a lawsuit when someone is seriously injured during the mad dash.

[Stillriledup]

Not from here it isn't.....A discounted coach fare to Vegas from Charlotte exceeds $500 pp round trip.
I can get to Upstate NY in 12 hours and spend less then $50 on gas...And I have MY CAR when I get there....
Lodging is no concern as I have friends I stay with. Or I can get a nice place to stay up near lake George for under $150 per night. Some of the mom and pop motels are half that.
And I don't need a fist full of fives and tens so I can tip half the population of North Las Vegas. Vegas is the gratuity capital of the universe. If you're walking on the side walk and some one says "excuse me", you gotta hand them cash..
Ok, that's an absurdity to make a point. I view Las Vegas as a place where one has to spend a lot of money to get their entertainment and meals.
I have friends who now avoid the touristy hotels in North Las Vegas and go to the hotels downtown.

This is for the people who have to fly, can't stay w friends. Vegas is just cheaper for most, you have found a way to make the spa cheaper, but if you lived within driving distance of vegas and had friends to stay with, that would make vegas infinitely cheaper.

Not to mention once you're at your destination, it's 50 to 100 per day more expensive to spend 1 day at the spa vs one day in the race book

[burnsy]

The New York Racing Association held its annual pre-Saratoga press conference on Monday to highlight what it perceives to be the significant improvements it is bringing to this year’s meet. The competition for what is the biggest outrage announced by CEO Chris Kay is expected to be intense.

◾Removing six large trees near the Carousel in order to build a museum. The “museum” will house memorabilia of those honored as “Red Jacket” recipients, a Kay innovation supposedly to honor those who made a significant contribution to Saratoga, according to Mike Kane in TDN.com. While one cannot criticize those selected – this year it is Mary Lou Whitney and Dinny Phipps – one suspects it is really a tribute to Chris Kay.

◾Eliminating the decades-long tradition of an open house, as well as the Wait Trials, on the Sunday before the meet opens. It is an event that brought thousands to the track, many of whom were families with kids, and supported local non-profit organizations. The kids got to wander around the track, go for pony rides, pet animals in a petting zoo, and eat all the junk kids love to eat at sporting venues. According to Kay, he has a better idea – as he always does – of family fun days on Mondays. Last year, this was a small area where dozens – not thousands – of kids could play in a bounce house and perhaps pet a pony. NYRA’s other CEO – Chief Experience Officer Lynn LaRocca – said the event was a lot of work with little return for the non-profits, according to Teresa Genaro writing in BloodHorse.com. In what appears to be a remarkable coincidence, it is also an event in which NYRA had not yet figured out a way to get its own taste.

Read more at…. http://tenoonan.com/tag/saratoga-race-meet/

This is the big sticking point up here. My dad brought me to that when I was 14 and it made me like the track. Before these statements it was never meant to make a lot of money. The Elks club used to sell sausage sandwiches and the churches would sell beer and fried dough along with other junk food. It brought families in and was a good will thing for the community for about 37 years. Who are your next customers? Then they bitch about the younger people not taking to horse racing. Gee, I wonder why? No foresight at all, some "cruise director".

Mary Lou and her husband may not even show up for that "induction" if he's there. Word around town is they are pissed off about this too. He (John Hendrickson) let it be known they were not happy with this jug head too. Yeah, its a real tribute to Kay. He's pissing off the wrong people with this move......forget the money......big crowds show up for that thing on a nice day. Its a great move...... :bang: Even the people (including track employees) that are already up here go to that. There are ways you can help this game without counting the money and this was one of them. My dad used to do the Elks club deal for years, those old guys were not doing it for the money, they just loved doing it. The Elks donate to everything they can.

[PaceAdvantage]

Let me get this straight.
The idea is to reserve a picnic table with cash to avoid the crowds onslaught rush to get to a table to save it when the gates open.
But ..... there are still some free tables just not as many now......correct?
So this will make the rush for the free tables less chaotic ,right?
Since there are less tables to rush too of course......................... :bang:
Hello!................Chris/NYRA....Duh!From how I read it, there are the same number of free tables. They ADDED tables that they will charge for...

If I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will correct...

[KingChas]

They get there with there fishing boat sized coolers full of beer and other alco beverages, get themselves smashed, while their offspring are left to run around spilling their drinks on total strangers. And the women pushing around these strollers that are as big as rickshaws who expect everyone else to get out of their way as though THEIR kid is the most important thing since the invention of the ATM...
Over the 35 plus years I have been going to the Spa, I have learned to deal with it.

Should've let you write my original reply................spot on, spaah! :ThmbUp: :D

Pace, I unfortunately only get to attend the Spa for one week a meet due to other obligations.I am quite sure this will be a moot point.
Just gotta vent sometimes, ya know what I mean.................... ;)

[thespaah]

From how I read it, there are the same number of free tables. They ADDED tables that they will charge for...

If I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will correct...
According to the NYRA website and a story linked in this thread the tables near the paddock have been added.

[FantasticDan]

NYRA to SAR fans: Time to pony up (http://www.dailygazette.com/news/2015/jun/27/0627_maccolumn/?dgzrg)

[dilanesp]

NYRA to SAR fans: Time to pony up (http://www.dailygazette.com/news/2015/jun/27/0627_maccolumn/?dgzrg)

i found that piece completely silly. The writer didn't look at any marketing data. How does he know that the fans he talked to make NYRA any money?

Has anyone looked at photos of Ascot lately? The place is ultra-modern. Classes are segregated. The place draws huge crowds and makes tons of money. It's beautiful.

Just because traditionalists will be offended doesn't at all mean NYRA is doing anything wrong.

[Stillriledup]

i found that piece completely silly. The writer didn't look at any marketing data. How does he know that the fans he talked to make NYRA any money?

Has anyone looked at photos of Ascot lately? The place is ultra-modern. Classes are segregated. The place draws huge crowds and makes tons of money. It's beautiful.

Just because traditionalists will be offended doesn't at all mean NYRA is doing anything wrong.

What part of a 'sad day for the common man' did you not get?

Not everyone is rich, are poor people not allowed to enjoy life? Vegas doesn't seem to have a problem entertaining poor people, they don't charge you to park, to enter or to sit.

[Saratoga_Mike]

i found that piece completely silly. The writer didn't look at any marketing data. How does he know that the fans he talked to make NYRA any money?

Has anyone looked at photos of Ascot lately? The place is ultra-modern. Classes are segregated. The place draws huge crowds and makes tons of money. It's beautiful.

Just because traditionalists will be offended doesn't at all mean NYRA is doing anything wrong.

Even though I support the new policy, I do see issues with implementation. Will someone stand guard over the pay-tables? If it's midway through a slow Monday card and 75% of the pay-tables are empty, will the tables still remain pay tables? Again, I'm with you on this matter, but I can see it turning into a problem (albeit minor problem).

[Saratoga_Mike]

What part of a 'sad day for the common man' did you not get?

Not everyone is rich, are poor people not allowed to enjoy life? Vegas doesn't seem to have a problem entertaining poor people, they don't charge you to park, to enter or to sit.

Yeah, Vegas doesn't treat low-end players differently than high-end players. :rolleyes:

[Stillriledup]

Yeah, Vegas doesn't treat low-end players differently than high-end players. :rolleyes:

They treat you great if you are high end and if you're low end, they don't gouge you to walk in or oark or sit. It's up to each person what kind of 'roller' they want to be. Racetracks have no clue who their high end players are.

[Saratoga_Mike]

They treat you great if you are high end and if you're low end, they don't gouge you to walk in or oark or sit. It's up to each person what kind of 'roller' they want to be. Racetracks have no clue who their high end players are.

You've been to Saratoga once, or so you've stated in the past. You're ignorant on this matter. You can bring in a cooler full of beer and a full picnic lunch. It's a great atmosphere for all. If you prefer San Diego weather, stay there.

If you think a high-end player isn't treated better than a low-end player in Vegas, you're crazy. And most tracks know their true high-end players. I suspect you aren't one (I'm not either), so you just don't see it in practice.

[Stillriledup]

You've been to Saratoga once, or so you've stated in the past. You're ignorant on this matter. You can bring in a cooler full of beer and a full picnic lunch. It's a great atmosphere for all. If you prefer San Diego weather, stay there.

If you think a high-end player isn't treated better than a low-end player in Vegas, you're crazy. And most tracks know their true high-end players. I suspect you aren't one (I'm not either), so you just don't know it.

Where did I say a high end player is treated the same as a low end player in vegas? All I was saying is that it's free to park, free admission and free seating.

I don't understand what my spa attendance has to do with me knowing that vegas is free and the spa is not.

[Saratoga_Mike]

One other thing SRU: Saratoga Racecourse is in Saratoga Springs, NY, not Ballston Spa as you intimidated in an earlier post.

[thespaah]

Even though I support the new policy, I do see issues with implementation. Will someone stand guard over the pay-tables? If it's midway through a slow Monday card and 75% of the pay-tables are empty, will the tables still remain pay tables? Again, I'm with you on this matter, but I can see it turning into a problem (albeit minor problem).
That's a very good question.....Will the management say by the 3rd race or so on a Weds or Thurs release the unpurchased tables to the general public?...My thinking is no. If those that had paid got wind that NYRA released the tables absent of charge or at a discount, I believe those that paid would blow up NYRA on social media and with that, never return..and these days. the last thing any business entity wants is a single negative comment on face book or twitter. Or worse, some blogger with a few thousand followers. NYRA opened a can of worms by charging Mon, Weds and Thurs when attendance is barely 15k...
Thing is, NYRA could take a page out of the book the air carriers use and just adjust the price to the demand.

[thespaah]

Yeah, Vegas doesn't treat low-end players differently than high-end players. :rolleyes:
There are the higher end players that get comps based on their play that day or over the course of their visit. Then there are the whales.
Some casinos DO treat the $5 black jack player quite well. If the $5 player is churning a whole bunch of money, he or she will get the attention of management. Especially if that person is winning. While those players are not going to get a penthouse room, they will get comps for future visits or if they are a current guest, an upgrade.

[thespaah]

This is for the people who have to fly, can't stay w friends. Vegas is just cheaper for most, you have found a way to make the spa cheaper, but if you lived within driving distance of vegas and had friends to stay with, that would make vegas infinitely cheaper.

Not to mention once you're at your destination, it's 50 to 100 per day more expensive to spend 1 day at the spa vs one day in the race book
There are alternatives to the expensive lodging in Saratoga Springs.
My wife an I stayed as a nice little mom and pop motel on Rte 9 about 15 mins from the track. No it's not near the City Center. And yeah we had to drive to get something to eat....And so on....If one insists on going out at night and not having to use their car, they pay up...Big time. Yes Saratoga can be very expensive.

[dilanesp]

What part of a 'sad day for the common man' did you not get?

Not everyone is rich, are poor people not allowed to enjoy life? Vegas doesn't seem to have a problem entertaining poor people, they don't charge you to park, to enter or to sit.

i actually think it's much easier for the common person to enjoy life now than in the past. 150 years ago, only the rich could see the great actors and singers. Now, everyone can. 75 years ago, only the rich could see the entire Kentucky Derby. Now everyone can.

There was never a time when access to desirable live events wasn't determined by money. Even the ancient Romans charged for the shaded boxes at the Colliseum.

And actually, if you really want everyone to have cheap access to Saratoga, the best way to do THAT would be to dispense with tradition and build a much bigger grandstand. That's what the European tracks have done.

If you want a cute little 19th Century plant that everyone wants to go to, of course the rich will get most of the space, one way or the other.

[Rookies]

You've been to Saratoga once, or so you've stated in the past. You're ignorant on this matter. You can bring in a cooler full of beer and a full picnic lunch.

I first came to the Spa as the new Millenium clicked over. At the time, I believe the entry fee was $3 and then we saw this cooler thingee biz. I thought I'd died and gone to heaven!

A commercial, Sports facility lets you bring in as much Alcohol and food as you can carry- gratis? :eek: Get outta here. We had never, ever seen that before- anywhere in North America at any venue. Of course, we have been right on it for the next 14 years. :lol:

As for the seating arrangement, my group prefers to sit up front trackside in any case, like Mad Dogs/Englishmen, on the benches and gratis.

I've even conjured up further little cost reducing schemes. Like- we go now for 5 days and 3 years ago, I started to ask for the "4 for 5 plan".
"What's that?" says the owner.
"We come here every day, but pay only for 4 days parking" says I.
"Done... (Butdon'ttellanyone)" ;)

It is simply a wonderful place and we are more than happy to travel about 8 hours to get there. :ThmbUp:

[Rookies]

There are alternatives to the expensive lodging in Saratoga Springs.
My wife an I stayed as a nice little mom and pop motel on Rte 9 about 15 mins from the track. No it's not near the City Center. And yeah we had to drive to get something to eat....And so on....If one insists on going out at night and not having to use their car, they pay up...Big time. Yes Saratoga can be very expensive.

Agreed. Never, ever stayed in Spa Springs. You can stay, as we have in Queensbury/Albany for between $125-$150 per night, 2015 prices, with breaky and the Racing Channel. Joined airbnb this year and enquired about Saratoga Springs. No dice. As expensive as the hotels- at least for 5 people and we don't want to spend $300 per night.

[Racey]

Went last year sat in expensive grandstand seating for 2 days. I mean it was ok I would rather go to Keeneland anyday