U.S. Open

[_______]

Took Jason Day and Jimmy Walker at 33-1 each. Also took a foursome of Matsuyama, Furyk, Kaymer, and Reed at 8-1. Wanted Matsuyama as a single but felt 28-1 was an underlay so took the prop. Like the rest of the foursome well enough. Reed could surprise.

Looking forward to seeing pro's tortured the next 4 days.

[_______]

BTW: Tiger Woods is +110 to make the cut. -120 to miss. Most of the other options on offer are -300 and up.

[PhantomOnTour]

I think it was 7yrs ago to the day when Tiger won his last major...and in 10yrs we will all say it's been 17yrs since his last major.
Dude is done

[cj's dad]

I think it was 7yrs ago to the day when Tiger won his last major...and in 10yrs we will all say it's been 17yrs since his last major.
Dude is done

Kinda like a certain NFL team 'bout 200 miles west of here.;)

I'm liking Bubba Watson in the Open.

[MutuelClerk]

I like this course. Should be a very interesting tourney. I think tiger will make the cut. Hoping an American wins. But seeing this course and the way the US Open has trended lately it will probably be another Euro.

[Marshall Bennett]

I think it was 7yrs ago to the day when Tiger won his last major...and in 10yrs we will all say it's been 17yrs since his last major.
Dude is done
He's still a very good golfer. I don't think he's done and will win another major. :)

[rastajenk]

He'll need better body language than he showed on 1.

Big risk putting him on prime time. He could really demonstrate how penal this track could be if you're not on. :eek:

[_______]

He's +7 on 14 and this hole looks like his Waterloo. He's a pro but double bogie looks like the best result. Triple if he 2 putts.

[cj's dad]

This tournament is being played in the state of Washington. This is an area of much rain if I am correct. The fairways and greens are the worst I have ever seen for any tournament sponsored by the PGA.

When I played many years ago at public parks, both the greens and fairways looked markedly better than what I am looking tonight.

I have greener grass in my front yard !!!!

[cj's dad]

At the time of this post Tiger Woods is +9. This telecast was set to allow most of his play to be televised nationally beginning at 8 PM-EST. His round was picked up on the 4th hole. If he were not black, he would be a non-issue.

When he finally fades into oblivion what will the networks do?It's always about the $$$$$

[_______]

Curtis-

I know the course doesn't look like what you are used to seeing but it is, in fact, in great shape.

The nearest course to my house is a links style course. They are a blast to play (though I doubt I would enjoy how they've set up this one). Wide open. Shoot low and just watch the ball roll forever. I am not a big hitter but can drive the mythical 300 yards (downhill) on this course. My driver is usually 210-220.

It's enjoyable to watch BECAUSE it's so different. Let go of your expectations that everything has to be green.

[LottaKash]

This tournament is being played in the state of Washington. This is an area of much rain if I am correct. The fairways and greens are the worst I have ever seen for any tournament sponsored by the PGA.

When I played many years ago at public parks, both the greens and fairways looked markedly better than what I am looking tonight.

I have greener grass in my front yard !!!!

I thought the very same things at first, but after listening to one of the announcers, he said that "this type of grass is very green in the spring and turns golden in the summer"

Otherwise tho, it still remains a very interesting and quite a challenging venue....I am rather enjoying the variety of it all, compared to all the lush greenery of most other PGA courses...

Btw too, this is in keeping with the tradition of the of the US OPEN, as it is a public course..

Also, it is a 10-mile hike to play the 18 holes, and much of it is uphill at that....I'll bet that some of the players will have nightmares tonite, after the soak in Epsom-salts..haha.,.

[DJofSD]

This tournament is being played in the state of Washington. This is an area of much rain if I am correct. The fairways and greens are the worst I have ever seen for any tournament sponsored by the PGA.

When I played many years ago at public parks, both the greens and fairways looked markedly better than what I am looking tonight.

I have greener grass in my front yard !!!!
It's the nature of the grass used on the course. Go look at what Pinehurst did to their courses.

There's nothing wrong with the grass or the way the course management has set up the course for the Open. It's just not the typical and obviously expected parkland style course.

[Relwob Owner]

At the time of this post Tiger Woods is +9. This telecast was set to allow most of his play to be televised nationally beginning at 8 PM-EST. His round was picked up on the 4th hole. If he were not black, he would be a non-issue.

When he finally fades into oblivion what will the networks do?It's always about the $$$$$


I think you are way off the mark here. If he wasn't a guy who won 14 majors and is now terrible, I could consider your point. Everyone likes watching a car crash situation and Woods is it right now and that would be the case whatever color he may be. It has nothing to do with the color of his skin. Whether you like it or not, people still care about Woods and how he will do and the networks realize that.

You are also off the mark about your course analysis concerning the fairways and greens and other posters responses to yours are spot on.

[098poi]

I think you are way off the mark here. If he wasn't a guy who won 14 majors and is now terrible, I could consider your point. Everyone likes watching a car crash situation and Woods is it right now and that would be the case whatever color he may be. It has nothing to do with the color of his skin. Whether you like it or not, people still care about Woods and how he will do and the networks realize that.

You are also off the mark about your course analysis concerning the fairways and greens and other posters responses to yours are spot on.

I am astonished at CurtisontheBay's comment. Difficult to respond. Truly the stupidest, most idiotic post on PA I have ever seen.

[letswastemoney]

I'm truly surprised at everyone thinks that Tiger Woods will become irrelevant soon.

No 14-time major winner can ever be irrelevant.

If Jack Nicklaus were still playing today, there would be some coverage of his holes and articles written about him every time he teed it up.

Tiger Woods deserves coverage because he's one of the legends in golf, regardless of what he did off the course which I think is clouding some people's opinions.

[PhantomOnTour]

I'm truly surprised at everyone thinks that Tiger Woods will become irrelevant soon.

No 14-time major winner can ever be irrelevant.

If Jack Nicklaus were still playing today, there would be some coverage of his holes and articles written about him every time he teed it up.

Tiger Woods deserves coverage because he's one of the legends in golf, regardless of what he did off the course which I think is clouding some people's opinions.
What he did off the course (in my opinion) is take PED's and now his body is paying the price.
His extramarital runnings have no bearing on my golf opinion of him

[ReplayRandall]

Bottom-line, Tiger Woods is in a death spiral. It would take a miracle from the Heavens, AND a total about-face from Woods, in all facets of his life, to save him from his own self-destruction......

[Relwob Owner]

What he did off the course (in my opinion) is take PED's and now his body is paying the price.
His extramarital runnings have no bearing on my golf opinion of him

I have no idea if he took PED's but there were also rumors, I believe mentioned in Haney's book, that he trained with Navy Seals and got hurt and it is probably still affecting him.

I dont think it is the whole reason, but I think his off course stuff with females has affected him. To get as good as he got at golf, you have to truly believe you are perfect and have an almost otherworldly sense of self confidence. All that left when he got busted cheating and all of a sudden, he knew everyone watching him knew he was far from perfect and that must be hard to handle.

If he were anyone else(maybe like Baker Finch), I would feel sorry for him at this point.

[DJofSD]

He f*cked up his left knee. Whether it was in part due to his fascination with Navy Seal training or his old swing where he posted up with a violent jerk, his knee is just about shot. He can not take any risk with what he has left. And so, he's changed his swing to compensate. And it shows.

Plus, I believe deep down inside, he feels the need to prove to the newer, younger generation of golfers, they don't have anything on him especially when it comes to distance. I believe he could still be the excellent player he is if he would only concede he can not reasonably expect to get those additional 10, 15, 20 yards any longer.

[Greyfox]

The course is in great shape - through the fairways and greens.
The U.S. Open is supposed to be the top test for golf in America.
As intended, Chambers Bay is separating those who are well prepared for it and those who aren't.
Kudos to Phil Mickelson, Miguel Angel Jiminez and Colin Montgomery, all at -1, who are still competitive in spite of increasing years.

[phattty]

Like the course"..the players...but not Fox 's bungled up broadcast

[MutuelClerk]

Totally agree about FOX. As much as I enjoy golf, I understand how it can be seen as boring. Adding Joe Buck to the recipe certainly doesn't help. He's terrible. Greg Norman isn't adding much either. I did like how they darkened the greens to show the slope and break.

I thought Tiger would make the cut. For all the surgeries he's had his problems are from the neck up. In his peak that was his strength. Tiger has become a Ian Baker Finch and Steve Sax exacta box. Gone mentally. He's too proud to go back to Butch. I think that's the only way he can even come close to a recovery. Looking forward to the rest of this and maybe winning a shipload of money.

[gfnut]

Like the course"..the players...but not Fox 's bungled up broadcast

Fox's coverage was about as bad as Tiger's round. I give them a double bogey.

[rastajenk]

They should have used Gus Johnson.

"From Downtown!! Bang! Count It!!!"

He would liven it up a little. :p

[cj's dad]

I am astonished at CurtisontheBay's comment. Difficult to respond. Truly the stupidest, most idiotic post on PA I have ever seen.

I posted this: "If he were not black, he would be a non-issue."

I should have posted If he were not Tiger Woods, he would be a non-issue.

I stand by the first comment as I remember well when he burst onto the scene much was made of his skin color by the national media and how this would expose younger blacks to the sport and increase viewership among African-Americans. Their words, not mine.

I do not know how tee times are assigned for the first round of tournament play. Isn't it odd how Tiger ends up teeing off 30 minutes before the telecast begins. Luck of the draw or network manipulation.

[tophatmert]

I posted this: "If he were not black, he would be a non-issue."

I should have posted If he were not Tiger Woods, he would be a non-issue.

I stand by the first comment as I remember well when he burst onto the scene much was made of his skin color by the national media and how this would expose younger blacks to the sport and increase viewership among African-Americans. Their words, not mine.

I do not know how tee times are assigned for the first round of tournament play. Isn't it odd how Tiger ends up teeing off 30 minutes before the telecast begins. Luck of the draw or network manipulation.
The tee times are set by the USGA. The groupings and tee times are determined by a panel of USGA officials. No it is not odd that Tiger teed off when he did Fox and the USGA would like a few people to watch. The comment about "if he were not Tiger" is mind boggling.

[Greyfox]

I do not know how tee times are assigned for the first round of tournament play. Isn't it odd how Tiger ends up teeing off 30 minutes before the telecast begins. Luck of the draw or network manipulation.

It's not luck of the draw.
The groupings are deliberately matched up and placed in the first two days to maximize the exposure of who the TV audience is most interested.
Except for their parents and friends, not many viewers want to watch "no name" brands like Brad Elder and Beau Hossler (even though they are good players in their own right.)
For instance, the marquee group on Thursday afternoon was Jordan Speith, Jason Day and Justin Rose.
Tiger, as a well known product brand, teed off just behind them.
That's good marketing and increases viewership.
Of course, the final two days will see more merit based coverage.

[tophatmert]

That is a tough first day of coverage for Fox. Tiger and Ricky did Fox no favors yesterday. Fowler, who looks like the "edgy Osmond brother " was most likely going to get a lot of coverage if he was close to the front. Fox would love Phil and Jordan to hang in there. I did like the wide angle sweeping camera shots.

[cj's dad]

The comment about "if he were not Tiger" is mind boggling.

Why? He's done. Been done. Good riddance to a foul mouthed, hot headed golfer.

[Greyfox]

Good riddance to a foul mouthed, hot headed golfer.

He was an absolutely great golfer, but he was no where near as good a role model for newcomers to the game as Arnie, Jack, and Gary.

[cj's dad]

He was an absolutely great golfer, but he was no where near as good a role model for newcomers to the game as Arnie, Jack, and Gary.

You got that right. Never saw any of them throw a club or heard them curse out loud, and I was an avid golfer 30-40 years ago.

[_______]

That is a tough first day of coverage for Fox. Tiger and Ricky did Fox no favors yesterday. Fowler, who looks like the "edgy Osmond brother " was most likely going to get a lot of coverage if he was close to the front. Fox would love Phil and Jordan to hang in there. I did like the wide angle sweeping camera shots.

There are those of us who watch the U.S. Open because of the opportunity to see pro's struggle. I know this doesn't make me a good person but the sub par rounds are the disappointments. If someone wins this with a -10 score, I'll count that as a bad U.S. Open.

Pin and tee placements just get tougher. Sunday should be awesome.

[Greyfox]

There are those of us who watch the U.S. Open because of the opportunity to see pro's struggle.

Yes. My own game is so poor it's great to see these guys endure what I go through every week in my foursome.
But when it comes to the final nine holes on Sunday, I want to see some one play winning golf, in preference to some one losing it due to struggles.

[DJofSD]

https://twitter.com/PGA_com/status/611977819351072768

[Greyfox]

https://twitter.com/PGA_com/status/611977819351072768

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CH4ulLfWIAIp5dc.jpg


"Those guys in the group ahead remember how to golf."

[DJofSD]

First a caddy suffers a fractured wrist, now Jason Day appears to have had a fainting or vertigo incident resulting in his going down onto the surface of the green. He has been seeking the cause for this problem for some time now but with all of the tests, it still is not known why he suffers from the spells.

[_______]

The whole issue with Day is weird. Not worried about my bet but sure hope he is okay.

[Hoofless_Wonder]

I don't have cable or satellite, and am amazed to see that there will be three hours of coverage on Fox starting in a couple of hours. Nice. Like many, I like to see the pros struggle a bit.

I can't speak for how the course looks on TV this week, but when I rode Amtrak by there a few weeks ago, the fairways looked quite lush as well as the greens. People were out playing in between the construction crews building up the stands and other work.

We had a very dry winter out here this year, and it's my understanding there's lots of sand and gravel under the course, so maybe it's dried out pretty quickly. Guess I'll watch and see how it looks.

[Relwob Owner]

The whole issue with Day is weird. Not worried about my bet but sure hope he is okay.

As someone posted earlier I think, I believe it is Vertigo and he has had issues with it in the past. I think Duval had this too for a bit?

[098poi]

Some shots of the course by the water are gorgeous. The fairways and greens look so intimidating with that brown/green color. The overhead shots make it look like something out of a Hobbit movie. The winner will have earned his prize.

[Hoofless_Wonder]

Boy, the fairways and greens do look bad. Like a playground at an elementary school. I wonder if part of that is the fact the course isn't very old? (opened in 2007)

The players are complaining, and for once I can't argue with them:

http://espn.go.com/golf/usopen15/story/_/id/13110175/2015-us-open-color-consistency-chambers-bay-greens-called-question

Oh - and the coverage by Fox is horrible. I mean how much effort does it take to adjust the audio/microphone on Greg Norman so it doesn't sound like he's talking with a mouthful of oatmeal?

[_______]

Projected cut +4

Tiger +16

It's not over today but I expect by the end he will have finished ahead of exactly 1 player. Doubt anyone else gets to +17.

[tophatmert]

Patrick Reed playing good but always looks like he is wound a little too tight.

[DJofSD]

That's the way some of Sergio's buddies have characterized the putting surfaces.

Bumpy greens, grey sand, brown fairways, I guess the views of the sound doesn't make up for the different course conditions for some.

[Robert Goren]

First a caddy suffers a fractured wrist, now Jason Day appears to have had a fainting or vertigo incident resulting in his going down onto the surface of the green. He has been seeking the cause for this problem for some time now but with all of the tests, it still is not known why he suffers from the spells. I had the same problem and it put me into assisted living. They can't find the cause with me either. It went away for a year and a half after 4 months of it and then came back about year ago. When I had a catheter put in prior to prostrate surgery, they gave Oxycodone to relax the bladder and it went away again. No one can figure that out either. I was told by a hospital internist that they can not find a cause for a lot of cases of long term vertigo.

[Greyfox]

I had the same problem and it put me into assisted living. They can't find the cause with me either.

Sorry to hear about that Robert.
It must be a horrible disorder to live with and not knowing the cause multiplies the horror of it.

[Robert Goren]

Sorry to hear about that Robert.
It must be a horrible disorder to live with and not knowing the cause multiplies the horror of it.Since Oxy has "cured" the problem for now, I am think about moving back into an apt. My doctors want to hold off for a while to see if the vertigo returns. They have talked me into staying until Christmas since moving back and forth is a huge hassle. But then Medicaid may have other ideas about whether I am eligible to stay in assisted living. My brother thinks I should try a different assisted living place since I hate the place I am in before going back to an apt. He has a point since I made a lot trips to the ER in that year and half, so I am looking into that as well.
The strange thing is one second I was fine, the next I was not. It changed so quickly. The first time it happened, I was getting out of a car. I stood up and then I went down in one motion.

[_______]

Since Oxy has "cured" the problem for now, I am think about moving back into an apt. My doctors want to hold off for a while to see if the vertigo returns. They have talked me into staying until Christmas since moving back and forth is a huge hassle. But then Medicaid may have other ideas about whether I am eligible to stay in assisted living. My brother thinks I should try a different assisted living place since I hate the place I am in before going back to an apt. He has a point since I made a lot trips to the ER in that year and half, so I am looking into that as well.
The strange thing is one second I was fine, the next I was not. It changed so quickly. The first time it happened, I was getting out of a car. I stood up and then I went down in one motion.

I assume you've been tested for Meniere's? Have a friend with this who is able to function with diuretics and anti-nausea drugs.

Sorry to hear about this. I had vertigo once (not counting alcohol induced episodes) and it was scary as hell.

[_______]

Patrick Reed playing good but always looks like he is wound a little too tight.

Totally agree with this. Obvious talent but he's not a guy I expect to be around late Sunday. That said, anyone who made the cut has a shot.

Think my best chance remains Day.

[_______]

That's the way some of Sergio's buddies have characterized the putting surfaces.

Bumpy greens, grey sand, brown fairways, I guess the views of the sound doesn't make up for the different course conditions for some.

The year there aren't complaints about a U.S. Open course is when I'll skip watching Sunday.

It's been fantastic for spectators so far. My bet would be -5 still leads after today and -2 wins the tournament Sunday.

[Greyfox]

Totally agree with this. Obvious talent but he's not a guy I expect to be around late Sunday. That said, anyone who made the cut has a shot.

Think my best chance remains Day.

Reed said last year that he is among the top five players in the world.
I chuckled at the time, thinking he was breaking his arm patting himself on the back after winning a tournament with his wife caddying.
This year he's proving it.
Don't count him out.

[DJofSD]

Reed said last year that he is among the top five players in the world.
I chuckled at the time, thinking he was breaking his arm patting himself on the back after winning a tournament with his wife caddying.
This year he's proving it.
Don't count him out.
I'm not counting out any one on the first two pages of the leaders -- basically any one from Sned's on up is a contender in my book.

Sh*t happens.

Today and Sunday, every one is playing in the "second wave" -- no nice conditions in the early morning.

Today, the 1st is a par 4 and the 18th a par 5. That will make Jordan happy. But come Sunday, guess what? It's back to a par 5/par 4 set up.

And then we haven't seen the tee sheets yet.

This will be fun -- but I have a strange sense of fun (I like doing D/R tests).

[DJofSD]

http://www.golfchannel.com/media/gary-player-critical-chambers-bay-course-setup/?cid=twitter-md-v-gary-player-chambers-bay-setup-062015

[Greyfox]

Gary Player is right that it is a tough course and not very forgiving for public players.
Several years ago I had a couple of friends who shot in the mid 80's at our local courses.
They went to St. Andrews and both shot over 110.
This course is more along the lines of some of those Scottish links courses.

Personally, I'm loving the course and FOX's coverage of it.

[DJofSD]

Fox needs to fix some of the technical glitches. I will say that I got a chuckle when Phil "chased down" the crawler.

The job of the on air personalities has fallen short -- they remind me of a bunch of guys just shooting the breeze.

Personally, I miss Johnny Miller. Oh well.

[tophatmert]

Reed said last year that he is among the top five players in the world.
I chuckled at the time, thinking he was breaking his arm patting himself on the back after winning a tournament with his wife caddying.
This year he's proving it.
Don't count him out.
Agree and his reactions yesterday to some misses were not as bad as they have been. What makes him good is what can make him bad. Reed , Spieth, Fowler , Rory, Koepka could make the PGA good competitive viewing in the next few years.

[mountainman]

The job of the on air personalities has fallen short -- they remind me of a bunch of guys just shooting the breeze.

Personally, I miss Johnny Miller. Oh well.

Johnny Miller? These guys ALMOST make me miss smug Nick Faldo. Greg Norman has potential, but Corey Pavin was jut a bad, bad, bad, bad idea. And Brad Faxon should just quietly leave. While I could NEVER be confused with a Joe Buck fan, he's better than I expected.

Incidentally, I love the view and tv shots, and it's VERY cool that the course makes fitness an important factor, but I don't get the whole "links lite" design, and am baffled as to what makes the venue worthy of a us open.

[Greyfox]

and am baffled as to what makes the venue worthy of a us open.

Baffled mountainman?
The course has challenge, excellent fairways, very good greens (but not aesthetically colorwise) with undulations that only the best are reading, well prepared tee boxes, varying length of holes, traps and rough.
It requires precision shot mastery of a wide variety of strokes to play it well.

I think that it's a great course.

Obviously you have different ideas.
What should a course worthy of the U.S. Open look like?

[MutuelClerk]

I love the course too. Seeing the best and very pampered players struggle is what the USGA is after. This course makes that attainable. I also like the prime time finish the west coast brings. Some of the FOX broadcast I haven't cared for. Joe Buck is vanilla wallpaper which might perfect for golf but not for me. Greg Norman hasn't done much for me either. Holly Sonders is just horrible. What I like about FOX is they seem to use that ball tracer more than the other stations do. Regardless, like the course, or hate the course I think were in for a great finish.

[DJofSD]

I love the course too. Seeing the best and very pampered players struggle is what the USGA is after. This course makes that attainable. I also like the prime time finish the west coast brings. Some of the FOX broadcast I haven't cared for. Joe Buck is vanilla wallpaper which might perfect for golf but not for me. Greg Norman hasn't done much for me either. Holly Sonders is just horrible. What I like about FOX is they seem to use that ball tracer more than the other stations do. Regardless, like the course, or hate the course I think were in for a great finish.
Ditto.

Re the ball tracer: it makes me wonder how good it really is. Case in point: the last two groups into 18 yesterday, the tracer really did not show how the balls came onto the course especially DJ's. But it was better than relying on the camera to catch the ball in flight then follow it to its landing. The camera operators just did a terrible job both finding/following the ball. And then on most shots, it seemed like they had no clue where it landed and when they did find where it landed, they'd sometimes pull back.

[tucker6]

I love the course too. Seeing the best and very pampered players struggle is what the USGA is after. This course makes that attainable. I also like the prime time finish the west coast brings. Some of the FOX broadcast I haven't cared for. Joe Buck is vanilla wallpaper which might perfect for golf but not for me. Greg Norman hasn't done much for me either. Holly Sonders is just horrible. What I like about FOX is they seem to use that ball tracer more than the other stations do. Regardless, like the course, or hate the course I think were in for a great finish.
Holly Sonders is not being used for her golf and reporting acumen, not that there is anything wrong with that.

[DJofSD]

Holly Sonders is not being used for her golf and reporting acumen, not that there is anything wrong with that.
Well, I wouldn't kick her out of bed for eating crackers, if that's what you mean.

[DJofSD]

1st will be a par 4.

18th will be a par 5.

Let the games begin. Advantage DJ.

[MutuelClerk]

Holly Sonders is not being used for her golf and reporting acumen, not that there is anything wrong with that.

Disagree. I know she played golf. But's there plenty of fake breasted, plastic faced woman if that's what's needed who are better than her. Good thing it isn't hot out. All her plastic could melt. She just strikes me as entitled and expects her ass kissed. I'm not that guy.

[horses4courses]

That course is set on the most gorgeous piece of real estate imaginable.
True, it could be greener, but at what cost?

Just because your eye is trained to see lush greens and fairways,
does not mean this is not a suitable test for pro golfers.
The US Open has standards for course layout and condition, and I doubt
that they, as an organization, are unhappy with the course this week.

Chemical fertilizers and huge amounts of water lead to greenness.
Some have described the greens like Ryvita crackers (similar to toast).
As with every tournament, though, there aren't many complaints
from those golfers who are making putts - just from those who aren't.

I'm definitely looking forward to watching a great final round today.
It's going to finish late, though. Leaders tee off at 3pm PT :eek:

[cj]

1st will be a par 4.

18th will be a par 5.

Let the games begin. Advantage DJ.

Completely irrelevant. You get the ball in the hole in as few shots as possible. If you change your strategy based on a meaningless number assigned as par, you aren't very smart.

[DJofSD]

Unless I'm a guest somewhere, my usual tracks look a lot closer to Chambers than any of the other PGA sites. The only exception has been on base at Miramar (yes, it can be played by the public), and, oh boy, the rough there was thick and deep -- it kicked my butt seven ways to Sunday.

[DJofSD]

Completely irrelevant. You get the ball in the hole in as few shots as possible. If you change your strategy based on a meaningless number assigned as par, you aren't very smart.
Well I guess all of the comments from those on Golf Channel must be wrong too.

[cj]

Well I guess all of the comments from those on Golf Channel must be wrong too.

The whole is designed poorly as a par 4. I get that. But changing it to a par 5 isn't going to alter how the players play the hole one bit, or it least it shouldn't.

I remember plenty of "par 4" holes in major championships where the player didn't try for the green in two shots.

[Greyfox]

Completely irrelevant. You get the ball in the hole in as few shots as possible. If you change your strategy based on a meaningless number assigned as par, you aren't very smart.

That's usually true, except if you are leading by 2 or trailing by 1 in the closing holes.

Below is one example of a man who should have played conservatively for bogie or more.

1dR1pkCGY80

[cj]

That's usually true, except if you are leading by 2 or trailing by 1 in the closing holes.

Below is one example of a man who should have played conservatively for bogie or more.

1dR1pkCGY80

Even then par really didn't matter. He knew how many shots he could take and win, he just turned into a mental midget.

[cj]

As far as the advantage DJ, I totally agree. But that isn't because of par, it is because they are long holes and his length is an advantage. It wouldn't matter if they were both P4s, or both P5s, or some combination of the two. That is the point I was trying to make.

[DJofSD]

Even then par really didn't matter. He knew how many shots he could take and win, he just turned into a mental midget.
One of the talking heads -- perhaps Brandel -- said they should go back to the way it used to be: no pars on the holes, eliminate that number then just total the scores to see who wins.

[DJofSD]

As far as the advantage DJ, I totally agree. But that isn't because of par, it is because they are long holes and his length is an advantage. It wouldn't matter if they were both P4s, or both P5s, or some combination of the two. That is the point I was trying to make.
:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[cj]

One of the talking heads -- perhaps Brandel -- said they should go back to the way it used to be: no pars on the holes, eliminate that number then just total the scores to see who wins.

TV would be lost without par. It would be really tough to compare people playing hours apart. You couldn't have leader boards. But still, I like it :)

[DJofSD]

I guess I missed this before:
https://twitter.com/WillBrinson/status/612688495841267712

[TJDave]

One of the talking heads -- perhaps Brandel -- said they should go back to the way it used to be: no pars on the holes, eliminate that number then just total the scores to see who wins.

When was that...the dark ages?

To my knowledge, par golf has been around since the early part of the last century.

[Greyfox]

Even then par really didn't matter. He knew how many shots he could take and win, he just turned into a mental midget.

My point though was Van der Velde's meltdown was a classic example of not following the usual dictum "to get the ball in the hole in as few a strokes as possible."
In that instance, he should have changed his strategy.
When he pulled out the driver on the tee box, Curtis Strange couldn't believe it. As I recall Curtis thought maybe a 5 iron would be in order and he could still play for par or bogies.

[cj]

My point though was Van der Velde's meltdown was a classic example of not following the usual dictum "to get the ball in the hole in as few a strokes as possible."
In that instance, he should have changed his strategy.
When he pulled out the driver on the tee box, Curtis Strange couldn't believe it. As I recall Curtis thought maybe a 5 iron would be in order and he could still play for par or bogies.


OK, got it. I remember that well, watched the whole thing.

[Rookies]

My point though was Van der Velde's meltdown was a classic example of not following the usual dictum "to get the ball in the hole in as few a strokes as possible."
In that instance, he should have changed his strategy.
When he pulled out the driver on the tee box, Curtis Strange couldn't believe it. As I recall Curtis thought maybe a 5 iron would be in order and he could still play for par or bogies.

Tin Cup! :lol:

[098poi]

Spieth birdies 16, we may have a winner.

[_______]

Captain Obvious here.

Speith the just won the tournament with that long putt on 16.

[098poi]

AAHHHHHH!!! This is getting good!!!!!!!!!!! (Spieth double bogeys 17)

[_______]

He will birdie 18 which is ridiculous as a par 5 for these guys.

[098poi]

He will birdie 18 which is ridiculous as a par 5 for these guys.

You may be right! He just hit a great second shot.

[_______]

DJ could catch him if he misses eagle putt.

[DJofSD]

I hope Taylormade bought an insurance policy to offset all of the free drivers!

[DJofSD]

Sad, just sad.

Congrats to Jordan!

[horses4courses]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CIEg_arVAAACunK.jpg

[ReplayRandall]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CIEg_arVAAACunK.jpg

There have been SIX golfers to win the Masters & US Open in the same year:

Craig Wood - 1941

Ben Hogan - 1951, 1953

Arnold Palmer - 1960

Jack Nicklaus - 1972

Tiger Woods - 2002

Jordan Spieth - 2015

[horses4courses]

There have been SIX golfers to win the Masters & US Open in the same year:

Craig Wood - 1941

Ben Hogan - 1951, 1953

Arnold Palmer - 1960

Jack Nicklaus - 1972

Tiger Woods - 2002

Jordan Spieth - 2015

Call up the PGA......I'm just the messenger

PGA TOUR ‏@PGATOUR 14m14 minutes ago
21-year-old Jordan Spieth has won the first two majors of 2015. #USOpen

[DJofSD]

DJ and Rory should go somewhere and have a pint or two.

[Relwob Owner]

Very happy with the result. Rory should have probably won had he putted better and will be tough to beat at the British.

[NJ Stinks]

I want a tough course for these guys as much as anybody. But if I can't see the ball, what's the point. As for the laser on the tee shots, without it there was nothing to see but the sky.

My belief is there was too much random luck out there. One ball stops and another ball doesn't. The USGA lucked out when Jordan won. Put Branden Grace's name on the trophy and then see how thrilled everybody is with the venue.

[MutuelClerk]

Dustin Johnson is the best golfer in the world.

For 65 holes.

[burnsy]

I had the same problem and it put me into assisted living. They can't find the cause with me either. It went away for a year and a half after 4 months of it and then came back about year ago. When I had a catheter put in prior to prostrate surgery, they gave Oxycodone to relax the bladder and it went away again. No one can figure that out either. I was told by a hospital internist that they can not find a cause for a lot of cases of long term vertigo.

Sorry to hear that Robert I feel your pain and Jason Day is now my favorite player, he's a tough guy. I contracted Meniere's Disease in 2006, it ended my career. Discovered by Prosper Meniere at a French deaf institute its a degenerative disease of the inner ear of unknown cause. Some ENT specialist call it a "syndrome" because they don't have a known cause or cure. Vertigo is one of the most debilitating and sickest experiences a person can have. I had 2 to 3 hour bouts for about 2 and half years, can't walk, sweat and puking all over the place. When it ends you feel like a truck hit you and can sleep for hours. Thankfully, yes thankfully, over the years my right inner ear has been dying. I'm down to 10% functioning in my right ear, for hearing and vestibular balance. The ear dying actually makes the vertigo less active. I wear a hearing aid and do physical therapy exercises for my balance. I still have bouts similar to what Day experiences if my head moves too quickly or at times it happens out of no where. The fatigue that accompanies vertigo is like your body not having enough energy to speak let alone play golf and even after it passes you are no where near 100%. I just found the guy I will route for in every tournament, he must really love what he does and is a total gamer in my book. :ThmbUp:

[DJofSD]

Dustin Johnson: 3rd;
Jason Day: 8th;
Tiger Woods: 205th.

[mountainman]

Browned-out course carved from an old gravel pit? I think we were sold a conservationist agenda. A us open track should be tough and punitive, but fair. Approach shots missing the mark by three feet should not be repelled 60 yards. And the perilous roll out on perfect drives was ridiculous. WATER the course, boys. Bumpy greens should by themselves disqualify a venue from us open consideration.

And the coverage was poor. I couldn't see the ball, gained little perspective on the confusing layout and had NO idea where the hole was on most putts.
Plus, the commentators were shameless apologists for the golf course and seemed to be pushing some global agenda with their preferred storylines. For instance, was it mentioned even ONE time all DAY that American Jordan Speith was the only late tee time with a major win in his pocket? Ok, so Jason Day had vertigo and Rory made a nice move from too far back, but did Greg Norman, in particular, even know Jordan Speith was out there?

The final straw was an utter refusal to even INTIMATE that Dustin Johnson did an historic choke on the final green. They kept saying "three putt?..three putt??...three putt..but nobody had the stones to put it in proper perspective as a three putt from TWELVE FEET!!!

Where's Johnny Miller when you need him????

Final observation, don't look back Rory, because there is somebody coming, and he's an American with ice-water in his veins, steel in his eyes, and a magic putter you can't match. GAME ON.

[Greyfox]

I loved the tournament, the drama, the Chambers Bay Course from tee to green and the tv coverage.

Great stuff.
Well done Jordan Spieth.:ThmbUp:

[DJofSD]

Browned-out course carved from an old gravel pit? I think we were sold a conservationist agenda. A us open track should be tough and punitive, but fair. Approach shots missing the mark by three feet should not be repelled 60 yards. And the perilous roll out on perfect drives was ridiculous. WATER the course, boys. Bumpy greens should by themselves disqualify a venue from us open consideration.

And the coverage was poor. I couldn't see the ball, gained little perspective on the confusing layout and had NO idea where the hole was on most putts.
Plus, the commentators were shameless apologists for the golf course and seemed to be pushing some global agenda with their preferred storylines. For instance, was it mentioned even ONE time all DAY that American Jordan Speith was the only late tee time with a major win in his pocket? Ok, so Jason Day had vertigo and Rory made a nice move from too far back, but did Greg Norman, in particular, even know Jordan Speith was out there?

The final straw was an utter refusal to even INTIMATE that Dustin Johnson did an historic choke on the final green. They kept saying "three putt?..three putt??...three putt..but nobody had the stones to put it in proper perspective as a three putt from TWELVE FEET!!!

Where's Johnny Miller when you need him????

Final observation, don't look back Rory, because there is somebody coming, and he's an American with ice-water in his veins, steel in his eyes, and a magic putter you can't match. GAME ON.
Yes, as I said previously, I miss Johnny. He says what he means and he has more insight and understanding than most who appeared on Fox. Given enough time I believe Greg can become a good announcer.

The greens will be redone. I'm of mixed emotion about the risk reward ratio of the contours and pin placement. Not every hole at Pebble Beach golf links is like the 14th and not every hold at Chambers Bay was penile in that way.

They did water the greens. In case you missed it, here's the back story to the bumpy greens. Only a few of the greens had a real problem with pao annua. And that was the result of an invasion which occurred in recent years. The extreme bumpiness was due to two factors: as the day progressed and the sun began to cook/bake the surface of the greens, the Fescue grass wilts and shrinks. At the same time and especially this time of year, the poa annua grows quickly and the head of the stock shoots up. The additional factor which made the entire situation even worse was the relative mix of the two types: about 70% is Fescue and the remainder the invading "weed." This means the poa annua was sparsely scattered but when it was there it had a definite impact on the contour of the surface. 100% of either type of grass would have yielded a much better and more consistent surface.

I agree with all of the observations about the TV coverage: I could not see the ball most of the time when it was in flight, when it hit the ground I had problems seeing it and the camera operators did not do a good job of finding and following the ball.

BTW, there were plenty of other major winners on course. Occasionally, they'd get some coverage but not enough in my opinion. I think it wasn't until Saturday I saw Ernie on the TV for the first time.

[mountainman]

I loved the tournament, the drama, the Chambers Bay Course from tee to green and the tv coverage.

Great stuff.
Well done Jordan Spieth.:ThmbUp:

Ain't opinion grand? This is AMERICA, baby..let it flow noble fox, let it flow...

[DJofSD]

Ain't opinion grand? This is AMERICA, baby..let it flow noble fox, let it flow...
Well, I try to separate the TV network from the course and the play.

As far as I'm concerned, FOX SUX! and the sad part is the contract is for 12 years.

[mountainman]

Well, I try to separate the TV network from the course and the play.

As far as I'm concerned, FOX SUX! and the sad part is the contract is for 12 years.

noooo..lol..you mistake me, good sir,...I meant noble GREY fox...not fox network, of which I am NO fan..

[cj]

Well, I try to separate the TV network from the course and the play.

As far as I'm concerned, FOX SUX! and the sad part is the contract is for 12 years.

I wasn't a fan, but surely they will get better I would think. That was one rough course for tracking the ball, not an ideal one to start on for sure. I assume they have all the USGA events so they'll have plenty of practice before 2016 US Open.

That said, I couldn't help but laugh when they listed the 1923 US Open winner as "Bob Jones."

[TJDave]

That was one rough course for tracking the ball

They didn't seem to have trouble tracking it in flight to the point where it landed. Why couldn't they coordinate with other cameras? The greens crews were horrible. On several occasions I found myself locating the ball before they did.

[098poi]

I was not as frustrated with Fox as with the course. (Except for the dark greens to show the contours, they should not show them during the putt because you can't see the ball) I could never tell where they were trying to hit to. From the tee or the fairway it was difficult to know what the heck they were aiming at. No one's fault just the course looks like the old west sometimes, on TV anyway.

Burnsy I read your post and wish you all the best.

[burnsy]

I was not as frustrated with Fox as with the course. (Except for the dark greens to show the contours, they should not show them during the putt because you can't see the ball) I could never tell where they were trying to hit to. From the tee or the fairway it was difficult to know what the heck they were aiming at. No one's fault just the course looks like the old west sometimes, on TV anyway.

Burnsy I read your post and wish you all the best.

I agree with you and what others are saying. I couldn't tell what they were aiming for on the greens, then once in a while they marked it. That graphic should of been up on every green. I'm all for making it hard but when a guy putts and it "hops" that's not even really fair. Its like they had to play some course like us regular Joes play...but come on already.

Thanks for the "well wish" but seriously I'm doing so much better than when it first started. My bouts with vertigo are short now and rare compared to the beginning. I had one of the most severe cases of vertigo at first. Its burning out as my right ear shits the bed. I'm going deaf in one ear but it beats vertigo any day. I have bad days still, take valium and lay down. You can tell when I'm not doing well just by some of the crap I post here. Started out bitter (and at times I still lose it) but I've learned a lot about life after I took ill. Healthy people sometimes take it for granted, I know I always did. I've felt my mortality and then some. When I wake up for another day, I realize its a miracle to just be here and at least I'm not getting worse. When you have to go to doctors a lot and meet all the other sick people, I'm lucky compared to many. I've lost my hearing, some energy and some of my balance but the last few years have been almost normal.

[AndyC]

You got that right. Never saw any of them throw a club or heard them curse out loud, and I was an avid golfer 30-40 years ago.

You never saw it because there wasn't 24/7 coverage of every tournament and people talking about their personal lives on the internet.

[AndyC]

As far as the advantage DJ, I totally agree. But that isn't because of par, it is because they are long holes and his length is an advantage. It wouldn't matter if they were both P4s, or both P5s, or some combination of the two. That is the point I was trying to make.

Both #1 and #18 actually changed when the pars changed. They both have different tee boxes which totally changed the landing areas for drives. As a par 4 from the up tee #18 was a joke because there was virtually no landing area for a drive.

[cj]

Both #1 and #18 actually changed when the pars changed. They both have different tee boxes which totally changed the landing areas for drives. As a par 4 from the up tee #18 was a joke because there was virtually no landing area for a drive.

I understand. Both were designed as P5s. The USGA always tries to turn a few P5s into P4s to keep the scoring higher. In this case, they didn't think it out very well.

[AndyC]

I understand. Both were designed as P5s. The USGA always tries to turn a few P5s into P4s to keep the scoring higher. In this case, they didn't think it out very well.

I saw an interview with the course designer who said that the holes were designed to be played as either a 4 or a 5 depending on the wishes of the USGA. They were not designed exclusively as par 5s.

[DJofSD]

I saw an interview with the course designer who said that the holes were designed to be played as either a 4 or a 5 depending on the wishes of the USGA. They were not designed exclusively as par 5s.
That's correct.

[DJofSD]

Between Robert Trent Jones and Gary Player after his rant.

See: http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golf-central-blog/rtj-fires-back-player-chambers-bay-rant/

[TJDave]

Between Robert Trent Jones and Gary Player after his rant.


Gary is right. I can't see how playing that course would be an enjoyable experience.

[DJofSD]

Gary is right. I can't see how playing that course would be an enjoyable experience.
Hmmm. Enjoyable. I guess I missed that part of the competition. Or is that something the players respond to on a membership survey or as a question from the press?

[Greyfox]

The aim of the U.S. Open is to identify the American Champion Golfer of the Year.

IMO, that aim was achieved.

Jordan Spieth is that Champion.

[TJDave]

Hmmm. Enjoyable. I guess I missed that part of the competition. Or is that something the players respond to on a membership survey or as a question from the press?

I was responding to Gary's comments about decline of golf and this being a public course. I love challenging courses and still hit it pretty good but no way would I consider this course. I did chuckle quite a bit watching these guys, though.

[rastajenk]

At $300 a loop, (http://www.chambersbaygolf.com/golf/rates-and-services/) :eek: I wouldn't likely consider it, either. But then I'm not currently good enough to really appreciate the subtle challenges of great courses; they simply kick my ass. But I would surely get my money's worth of ass-kickin' on that one, and that's not really a compliment. :p

[mountainman]

Between Robert Trent Jones and Gary Player after his rant.

See: http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golf-central-blog/rtj-fires-back-player-chambers-bay-rant/

Neither guy is easy to like. Player is an attention whore who always overplays his multitude of opinions. And Trent Jones has likened himself to Michelangelo. For real.

[AndyC]

Gary is right. I can't see how playing that course would be an enjoyable experience.

Gary's attitude is that one size must fit all. The course was built for championship golf played by elite players not for Mr and Mrs Havecamp with their 20+ handicaps. I would love to play the course because I enjoy challenging courses but not at $300 a pop.

[mountainman]

Gary's attitude is that one size must fit all. The course was built for championship golf played by elite players not for Mr and Mrs Havecamp with their 20+ handicaps. I would love to play the course because I enjoy challenging courses but not at $300 a pop.

You must be an exceptional golfer.

[DJofSD]

https://ncrdb.usga.org/NCRDB/courseTeeInfo.aspx?CourseID=3943

Golfers carrying a higher index can always use the forward tees. :)

Join the golf club and wait until after mid-July, you can play for $150.

P.S. Make sure your shoes are a good fit. It is a walking only track, so, just like the pros you'll be hiking up and down, hill and dale.

P.P.S. How many other venues which have hosted a US Open are accessible to the public? I know there are a few and off the top of my head I can think of 3: Torrey Pines (my backyard), Beth Page (Black) and Pinehurst.

[Greyfox]

For me, golf is a good ride spoiled.

I won't even walk our local tracks anymore, far less a monster like Chambers Bay.

[rastajenk]

Pebble Beach is public, isn't it? Or somewhat accessible, for the right amount?

[DJofSD]

I was never sure about course fees on the Monterey Peninsula until now when I looked for the specifics.

PB is accessible to the general public and it is a part of a resort. If you are not a guest of the resort you pay an additional fee for a cart. I know from a couple of different email offers I receive throughout the year, if you stay and play as a part of the package, the green fees are not as bad as just a pay-to-play user which about $495 per round (http://www.pebblebeach.com/golf/pebble-beach-golf-links/current-rates).

So I guess that makes 4 courses accessible by the public that have hosted the US Open. BTW, the US Open is coming back to Pebble in a couple of years.

[AndyC]

You must be an exceptional golfer.

Exceptional is a relative term. I play well enough that I thoroughly enjoy the challenge of a championship course. I am a definite golfoholic. I am either playing or practicing every day.

[mountainman]

Exceptional is a relative term. I play well enough that I thoroughly enjoy the challenge of a championship course. I am a definite golfoholic. I am either playing or practicing every day.

I'm totally into golf and hit the shag range or course four or five times a week. Through costly instruction and lots of work, I've corrected most of my over-the-top move. But it's my own realization that I need to stop chicken-winging, keep my head behind the ball, and extend my arms down the target line that has me excited and playing better than ever right now. And "better" is another relative term. Unless the course is short and flat, I'm thrilled to shoot low 80's. And I still shank the short irons on occasion.

[DJofSD]

http://blog.darrencarroll.com/2015/06/2015-u-s-open-after-the-win/

What the TV cameras did not catch.