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_______
06-15-2015, 08:47 PM
Does anyone else play? It seems to attract a lot of truly bad players. I count myself among those but as a one eyed man, I seem to have found myself in a kingdom of the blind.

Don't want to bore if there's no interest but would recommend a quick read of any basic strategy book and visit to your local game if you get tired of treading water at hold 'em. No one makes a living writing columns on the internet about it which works in your favor.

proximity
06-15-2015, 11:45 PM
i've noticed that charm city plays a lot of mixed games at horseshoe when he's there and i imagine he could probably play pot limit if he wanted to.

in brick and mortar i think a lot of times the player pool actually hinders the spread of non hold 'em games by introducing the game at stakes that are too high and/or variants that are too complex.

variance, pace of play, and lack of a consistently running game could be other factors keeping hold 'em players from focusing more on this despite the potentially larger edges.

jmo

_______
06-16-2015, 02:05 AM
i've noticed that charm city plays a lot of mixed games at horseshoe when he's there and i imagine he could probably play pot limit if he wanted to.

in brick and mortar i think a lot of times the player pool actually hinders the spread of non hold 'em games by introducing the game at stakes that are too high and/or variants that are too complex.

variance, pace of play, and lack of a consistently running game could be other factors keeping hold 'em players from focusing more on this despite the potentially larger edges.

jmo

Good points. I would never have stepped in the 5/5 game played at my local casino. There is no upper limit on the buy in and guys regularly sat down with $5000 stacks. They started a 1/3 game with a $500 max buy on Saturdays that usually draws enough players for 2 tables now. That's the one I've been playing.

When one of the guys from the big game sits in, it's obvious what little regard they have for the puny amount at risk. But at the same time, you can just nit it up and make serious bank.

proximity
06-24-2015, 11:14 PM
________, how's it going?

give us some game reports!! :)

_______
06-25-2015, 02:24 AM
________, how's it going?

give us some game reports!! :)

Will do. Going on Saturday and will try to report back on Sunday. No one should expect proximity level Hemingway like prose. Think more along the lines of pulp fiction (the badly written novels, not the awesome movie).

I've been 15 times so far. 13-2 +4936

The only losses were both in the $200-300 range. Won over $1000 twice. Last Saturday was +245.

It's a regular cast. Not many fresh faces too often. Since the WSOP started it's just been 1 table as a lot of guys are in Las Vegas playing ring games.

Just a quick review of the game: $1-$3 blinds. Bring in is $5. The blinds together are rounded up so you can raise to $15 from seat 3. The $1 chips are only for the blinds. You can't bet them unless you have 5 together. A round of Omaha is followed by a round of Omaha Hi/Low.

Back on Sunday.

_______
06-25-2015, 02:37 AM
One more thing: High is mostly a game of straights and flushes. Keep this in mind when I'm doing a poor job of explaining my play. I'll be folding two pair on the flop under almost any kind of pressure. Particularly in Hi/Low where a low is likely since it only plays for half the pot. You want to be involved in hands that can win both ways in hi/low. There are a lot more good starting hands in hi only. Hi/low I'm seeing a flop less than 20% of deals.

Robert Goren
06-25-2015, 11:32 AM
All high-low games turn into rockfests when the players get experience under their belts. Omaha high is actually pretty good game and their are several books on it that are very good. But the early books on the game are pure crap. Don't buy anything on it written in 2007 or earlier. Hwang's books changed everything.

charm city whizz
06-25-2015, 12:38 PM
Deal this game for about 5 hours s week and it's a sickening game, the the beats are out of a film...but if you run good you can win a ton

The game is confusing to a lot of people how to calculate the size of the pot but it is fairly easy

Example...2/2 PLO....small blind $2 big $2 under the gun can make it 8

You multiply the bet in front of you by 3 then add the trail bets and Main pot
Example:

On the turn main pot is $36

Seat 1: bets $10
Seat 2: calls 10
Seat 3 calls 10
Seat 4 raises to 40

Seat 5 says pot, you multiply 40x3 which is 120 then add the 3 $10 bets which is 150, and then add the 36 seat 5s pot bet is $186

Just seems like you need to have the nuts in this game as basically all the cards are out

_______
06-25-2015, 03:28 PM
Deal this game for about 5 hours s week and it's a sickening game, the the beats are out of a film...but if you run good you can win a ton

The game is confusing to a lot of people how to calculate the size of the pot but it is fairly easy

Example...2/2 PLO....small blind $2 big $2 under the gun can make it 8

You multiply the bet in front of you by 3 then add the trail bets and Main pot
Example:

On the turn main pot is $36

Seat 1: bets $10
Seat 2: calls 10
Seat 3 calls 10
Seat 4 raises to 40

Seat 5 says pot, you multiply 40x3 which is 120 then add the 3 $10 bets which is 150, and then add the 36 seat 5s pot bet is $186

Just seems like you need to have the nuts in this game as basically all the cards are out

The casino I play at made it a little easier on the dealers and players by rounding up to 5 on any odd chips. Once you understand that any singles in the pot get rounded up, the math is a little quicker. It also helps that you can only play $5 chips other than the blinds.

In the situation you outlined, the pot bet would be $190. Repot would be $870 which, at the table I play, is putting most players all in.

You almost never see less than nut win any big pot at showdown. I've gotten single pair high wins by accident when I was playing nut low (and also gotten quartered by someone with a bad high) but you don't really see a lot of action on those hands.

charm city whizz
06-25-2015, 06:20 PM
The casino I play at made it a little easier on the dealers and players by rounding up to 5 on any odd chips. Once you understand that any singles in the pot get rounded up, the math is a little quicker. It also helps that you can only play $5 chips other than the blinds.

In the situation you outlined, the pot bet would be $190. Repot would be $870 which, at the table I play, is putting most players all in.

You almost never see less than nut win any big pot at showdown. I've gotten single pair high wins by accident when I was playing nut low (and also gotten quartered by someone with a bad high) but you don't really see a lot of action on those hands.

Yes rounding up makes it a lot easier....our casino though in 2/2 is to the exact dollar, that $2 round off can multiply very rapidly

Biggest pet peeve dealing the game is when it's small blind big blind with a straddle next guy goes pot for "19".....wish it was 20 hahahah

_______
06-25-2015, 07:34 PM
Yes rounding up makes it a lot easier....our casino though in 2/2 is to the exact dollar, that $2 round off can multiply very rapidly

Biggest pet peeve dealing the game is when it's small blind big blind with a straddle next guy goes pot for "19".....wish it was 20 hahahah

No straddles in Ventura. They allow it in hold'em but not PLO. There is a guy that just bets a blind $10 UTG on occasion but he can't raise if it's called around.

I feel for you. I'm pretty good at doing numbers in my head but I wouldn't want to try to figure a few calls and then a repot after $19.

_______
06-28-2015, 02:06 PM
Saturday was pretty uneventful for dramatic action. There were a few very big pots and very questionable calls of huge bets but I wasn't involved in any of them.

I did see something that illustrates the level of some players and why this game is usually profitable. On a particular hand a player had used 5 singles for the bring in on the initial round of betting. The player to his left, who had been passive to this point, threw in 5 $5 chips without saying anything. The next player asked "you raised?". The last actor then grabbed back 4 chips saying, "I thought he (guy with 5 singles) had bet $25.

That, in a nutshell, is why I love this game. Someone who has a range that includes hands worth calling 5x the bring in but unworthy of making that raise themselves. He didn't care if the bet was $5 or $25. He would just call either.

There were two action players at the table most of the day, sb and Mitch. Both are aggressive with a wide range of starting hands (mitch probably saw the flop on 75% plus of the hands dealt). Both are nice enough individuals though sb likes to pout about any bad beats he receives while explaining away ones he delivers as "the math was there" (it usually isn't.)

I want to say that with the exception of Stu (who didn't play yesterday) there aren't any regulars with serious attitude problems. Stu, I suspect, is angry all the time and that just carries over to his poker. But the overall experience at this club has been pretty good. If this were yelp, I'd give them 5 stars.

But I digress.

What I meant to say was that SB and Mitch both had very good days yesterday, cashing out between 500-700 each. When those guys do well, it's much less likely that I will since they are a primary source of the big pots.

I lost $110 yesterday in undramatic fashion. It was mostly bringing in the initial bet and folding when nothing hit. In high only, I limped in with KK67 double suited black and had the pot raised to $40 by SB in the small blind. I called because it was SB and 1 other player. We wound up with 4 seeing the flop as another player made the big call behind me. The board flopped all hearts, no king and I folded to SB's $100 half pot bet. There was no showdown and SB didn't show his cards.

In Hi/low I was dealt the almost perfect AA26 double suited, made a pot bet of $15 with 3 callers. The board flopped k-low-low with no counterfeits, no obvious flush or straight draws. I made a continuation pot bet when two checked in front of me. All 3 folded. Like I said, no high drama.

Also in hi/low, I had a34x on the button and limped for $5. Board flopped two low cards and I had uncounterfeitable draws to the low. I bet $20 (less than pot) when no else did and had 2 callers. The board then paired twice with it checking around the first time and my folding to a bet on the river. Yes, I get that I missed a bet on the turn. It was just too appealing to see a free card. Check raising does occur here and in pot limit it's extremely effective.

The last hand I took notes on echoes a discussion with whizz above. I played a239 in hi/low. The turn made the low. A player in front put me all in for $125 on the river (I would have rebought so this wasn't going to be the end of my day). I don't have notes on the specific board so don't remember if there was a straight possibility but there usually is. We were head up at that point. I decided I would risk getting quartered and called. My 99 won high and we split the low.

Betting a raw low often gets you burned. I understand the other player wants to put pressure on to win the whole pot but he wound up losing an extra $63.

Anyway, that's all the notes I have. Game started late around 1115 and I played until 630. Folded hands for hours on end.

I won't play next Saturday as will be enjoying the holiday with my family. I did learn there is a game Friday nights now but I will probably pass on that also although from the description of other players, it is much much looser. Maybe in 2 weeks when my girlfriend is out of town I'll check in on the Friday game.

13-3
-110 game
+4836 year

Track Collector
06-28-2015, 03:13 PM
That year-to-date is some impressive!!!

charm city whizz
06-28-2015, 03:13 PM
Saturday was pretty uneventful for dramatic action. There were a few very big pots and very questionable calls of huge bets but I wasn't involved in any of them.

I did see something that illustrates the level of some players and why this game is usually profitable. On a particular hand a player had used 5 singles for the bring in on the initial round of betting. The player to his left, who had been passive to this point, threw in 5 $5 chips without saying anything. The next player asked "you raised?". The last actor then grabbed back 4 chips saying, "I thought he (guy with 5 singles) had bet $25.

That, in a nutshell, is why I love this game. Someone who has a range that includes hands worth calling 5x the bring in but unworthy of making that raise themselves. He didn't care if the bet was $5 or $25. He would just call either.

There were two action players at the table most of the day, sb and Mitch. Both are aggressive with a wide range of starting hands (mitch probably saw the flop on 75% plus of the hands dealt). Both are nice enough individuals though sb likes to pout about any bad beats he receives while explaining away ones he delivers as "the math was there" (it usually isn't.)

I want to say that with the exception of Stu (who didn't play yesterday) there aren't any regulars with serious attitude problems. Stu, I suspect, is angry all the time and that just carries over to his poker. But the overall experience at this club has been pretty good. If this were yelp, I'd give them 5 stars.

But I digress.

What I meant to say was that SB and Mitch both had very good days yesterday, cashing out between 500-700 each. When those guys do well, it's much less likely that I will since they are a primary source of the big pots.

I lost $110 yesterday in undramatic fashion. It was mostly bringing in the initial bet and folding when nothing hit. In high only, I limped in with KK67 double suited black and had the pot raised to $40 by SB in the small blind. I called because it was SB and 1 other player. We wound up with 4 seeing the flop as another player made the big call behind me. The board flopped all hearts, no king and I folded to SB's $100 half pot bet. There was no showdown and SB didn't show his cards.

In Hi/low I was dealt the almost perfect AA26 double suited, made a pot bet of $15 with 3 callers. The board flopped k-low-low with no counterfeits, no obvious flush or straight draws. I made a continuation pot bet when two checked in front of me. All 3 folded. Like I said, no high drama.

Also in hi/low, I had a34x on the button and limped for $5. Board flopped two low cards and I had uncounterfeitable draws to the low. I bet $20 (less than pot) when no else did and had 2 callers. The board then paired twice with it checking around the first time and my folding to a bet on the river. Yes, I get that I missed a bet on the turn. It was just too appealing to see a free card. Check raising does occur here and in pot limit it's extremely effective.

The last hand I took notes on echoes a discussion with whizz above. I played a239 in hi/low. The turn made the low. A player in front put me all in for $125 on the river (I would have rebought so this wasn't going to be the end of my day). I don't have notes on the specific board so don't remember if there was a straight possibility but there usually is. We were head up at that point. I decided I would risk getting quartered and called. My 99 won high and we split the low.

Betting a raw low often gets you burned. I understand the other player wants to put pressure on to win the whole pot but he wound up losing an extra $63.

Anyway, that's all the notes I have. Game started late around 1115 and I played until 630. Folded hands for hours on end.

I won't play next Saturday as will be enjoying the holiday with my family. I did learn there is a game Friday nights now but I will probably pass on that also although from the description of other players, it is much much looser. Maybe in 2 weeks when my girlfriend is out of town I'll check in on the Friday game.

13-3
-110 game
+4836 year

Oh your plying PLO8??? that's not for the weak at heart, only really saw this spread 2 or 3 times in Maryland

You really gotta make big decisions in this game, very very hard to call wity marginal hands, very much respect you playing this game

_______
06-28-2015, 06:26 PM
That year-to-date is some impressive!!!

I think the other players are getting used to my play and adjusting. Nearly half the money was in two massive above $1000 sessions. The last 5 sessions have been +570, +105, +166, +245, and -110.

I'm not penciling in wins of large magnitude going forward although I do think I'll be net positive. Some of the more aggressive players remain in Las Vegas so I do have some hope for the larger wins when they return.

_______
06-28-2015, 06:38 PM
Oh your plying PLO8??? that's not for the weak at heart, only really saw this spread 2 or 3 times in Maryland

You really gotta make big decisions in this game, very very hard to call wity marginal hands, very much respect you playing this game

Thanks, whizz. I struggle making any serious money at hold'em where I think knowledge is wide and deep. Decided to switch to something played a little less in hopes my mediocre knowledge would still be better than others. So far, so good but it's more a case of others playing very poorly than me playing particularly well.

The decisions you see made are, on occasion, truly mind boggling. It happens often enough in this particular game that I don't have to play very deceptively. An ABC game is good enough.

charm city whizz
06-28-2015, 07:33 PM
Thanks, whizz. I struggle making any serious money at hold'em where I think knowledge is wide and deep. Decided to switch to something played a little less in hopes my mediocre knowledge would still be better than others. So far, so good but it's more a case of others playing very poorly than me playing particularly well.

The decisions you see made are, on occasion, truly mind boggling. It happens often enough in this particular game that I don't have to play very deceptively. An ABC game is good enough.

Correct, usually ABC play will result in a profit more times then not

tucker6
06-28-2015, 08:00 PM
Thanks, whizz. I struggle making any serious money at hold'em where I think knowledge is wide and deep. Decided to switch to something played a little less in hopes my mediocre knowledge would still be better than others. So far, so good but it's more a case of others playing very poorly than me playing particularly well.

The decisions you see made are, on occasion, truly mind boggling. It happens often enough in this particular game that I don't have to play very deceptively. An ABC game is good enough.
Is it knowledge or patience that is the key? I know it is a little of both, but by the reading of your posts, it sounds like you often wait for your opponents to make the mistake. That is efficient play in my book.

_______
06-29-2015, 12:44 PM
Is it knowledge or patience that is the key? I know it is a little of both, but by the reading of your posts, it sounds like you often wait for your opponents to make the mistake. That is efficient play in my book.

It is a little of both. I'm modest about my knowledge because there is a lot to be modest about. But I'm good at keeping emotion out of decisions and recognizing when other's aren't. If I get money in on a good situation, I know I'll still lose some of those. It doesn't bother me (much) if the other player made a mistake and still won. They wouldn't play that way if it inevitably lost and I want them to make mistakes.

And as much as it's possible to know oneself, I try to be honest in the assessment of my own play.

I have a problem with last-hand-itis (I'm getting up after this hand so I'll play it no matter the holding) that cost me an unnecessary $40 Saturday. That's something I'll avoid in the future.

charm city whizz
06-29-2015, 12:48 PM
2/2 plo hand at about 2:30am

Straddle goes pot and re pot so it's about 70 7 way action...

Flop comes 222.....guy bets 260 next guy goes all in for about $640 next player calls turn is a 7 river a 10 im waiting to see a A2JK double suited hand but that wasn't happening....

The winner was 5588....just another normal hand in Maryland lolololol

proximity
06-29-2015, 06:11 PM
I won't play next Saturday as will be enjoying the holiday with my family. I did learn there is a game Friday nights now but I will probably pass on that also although from the description of other players, it is much much looser. Maybe in 2 weeks when my girlfriend is out of town I'll check in on the Friday game.

13-3
-110 game
+4836 year

GREAT report ______ except for the -, but it sounds like you'll get it back.

can't wait to hear about the friday game!!

_______
07-09-2015, 07:46 PM
Will be looking here:

http://www.pcventura.com/waitlist.html

To see if the 1/3 PLO starts tomorrow night. If not, I'll be there Saturday morning.