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HalvOnHorseracing
06-14-2015, 11:48 PM
The Rise and Fall of Chris Grove is a story about a pretty good Maryland trainer who had a positive in West Virginia for nikethamide, a Class 1 substance, fought, lost and ulitmately quit racing. Read the whole story of his case at http://halveyonhorseracing.com/?p=1742

cj
06-15-2015, 08:14 AM
Trainers that run stables at multiple tracks are asking for trouble, particularly at a place like Charles Town which has a well known group of unscrupulous characters. I'm not saying I don't feel sorry for Grove, I do, but he appears to have been very naive.

For three or four years there was a group of three trainers that I just bet blindly and made a nice profit. I don't think it was because they were better horsemen than the rest of the trainers.

When I see names like Julio Cartagena and Kevin Joy, I just shake my head.

Donttellmeshowme
06-15-2015, 08:39 AM
Ok so he got caught with something he didnt give. Pay the fine, quit having horses at 3 different tracks. hire better help, and cowboy up.

Robert Fischer
06-15-2015, 09:10 AM
The Rise and Fall of Chris Grove is a story about a pretty good Maryland trainer who had a positive in West Virginia for nikethamide, a Class 1 substance, fought, lost and ulitmately quit racing. Read the whole story of his case at http://halveyonhorseracing.com/?p=1742

Has an interesting element to the writing. Nice job Halv.

HalvOnHorseracing
06-15-2015, 09:48 AM
Trainers that run stables at multiple tracks are asking for trouble, particularly at a place like Charles Town which has a well known group of unscrupulous characters. I'm not saying I don't feel sorry for Grove, I do, but he appears to have been very naive.

For three or four years there was a group of three trainers that I just bet blindly and made a nice profit. I don't think it was because they were better horsemen than the rest of the trainers.

When I see names like Julio Cartagena and Kevin Joy, I just shake my head.

I think there was a naivete to Chris. I talked with him alot and I did get the feeling he honestly couldn't figure out why someone would screw him. Especially the racing commission. I think he believed they'd see he didn't do it and somehow let him off easy.

I think the question is, what do you do with the trainer who seems innocent given all the evidence? I also think they couldn't have punished Ceciliano without punishing Grove. What I found strange was everyone agreeing WV did a thorough investigation when I uncovered some obvious places they dropped the ball.

HalvOnHorseracing
06-15-2015, 09:50 AM
Ok so he got caught with something he didnt give. Pay the fine, quit having horses at 3 different tracks. hire better help, and cowboy up.

That struck me as well. If you quit you lose. I've always said that the best revenge is success.

JohnGalt1
06-18-2015, 01:30 PM
On www.halveyonhorseracing.com the author writes an in depth article about Chris Grove, an East coast trainer. The article, '''''the Rise and Fall (and Rise) of Chris Crowe" is his June 14 entry.

It explains his experience with the Absolute Insurers Rule, where a trainer is 100% liable for any drug infraction of any horse under his care.

We all want the chronic cheaters tarred and feathered, but this article opened my eyes.

Track Collector
06-18-2015, 04:18 PM
What a long story and interesting read.

Some how common sense needs to prevail.

HalvOnHorseracing
06-19-2015, 05:16 PM
There needs to be a recognition that finding the truth and executing justice is a higher priority than simply executing. From The Rise and Fall (and Rise) of Chris Grove

I had a recent conversation with John Langemeier (Spooky Hollow Stable) and he related his experience with other horsemen after Kellyn Gorder was cited for a methamphetamine positive. The most common reaction was along the lines of "that sonofabitchin cheater." Once my story on Gorder came out, (it is published in the summer edition of the Horseman's Journal) it seemed far more likely the positive was a result of an environmental contamination. But again, in the case of Gorder the commission did an incredibly insufficient investigation. This is, in my opinion, the worst outcome of the absolute insurer's rule - that once a blood test comes back positive all incentive to figure out what might have happened is gone. It seems to defy all sense of justice that a trainer can essentially be found innocent by the hearing officer AND guilty at the same time. In Grove's case the findings made it clear they thought Grove had no involvement in the horse receiving nikethamide, but since he was the trainer of record he was the one that would be punished.

The fact is that most drug/medication positives are directly or indirectly the fault of the trainer. The question is what do you do in the exceptional instance where the trainer is provably innocent? Or if his assistant does something without the knowledge or consent of the trainer (as was likely in the Grove case) should the trainer still be liable?

As I noted in the article, some form of the absolute insurers rule is probably a necessary evil. But even a good law enforced without common sense or a sense of justice does not meet the real intent of laws - to identify and punish the truly guilty. As I said in the Gorder article, was it the intent of the legislature when they gave racing commissions the authority to make rules to punish the innocent? Was it their intent to remove all investigatory requirements from the commission? Is the legislature fine with the idea that good guys can get run out of the sport in a misguided zeal to rid the sport totally of those who have a blood test positive, regardless of the circumstances?

Another must read is John Pricci's revisitation of the Dick Dutrow case. http://www.horseraceinsider.com/HRI-Feature/comments/05282015-rick-dutrow-case-revisited/

EVERYBODY assumed Dutrow was dirty, but Pricci does a thorough job of making Dutrow look like the target of a vendetta rather than the poster boy for chemical use to win races. In any case, there is far more to the story than most of us know, just like with Chris Grove.

The issue of drugs in racing is a serious one. It is not so serious that punishment has to be out of all proportion to guilt.

Stillriledup
06-19-2015, 05:35 PM
but even if there was a vendetta against Dutrow, didnt he put himself in a bad position with dozens of violations, being a loose cannon and having shady unlikeable owners?

HalvOnHorseracing
06-19-2015, 06:40 PM
but even if there was a vendetta against Dutrow, didnt he put himself in a bad position with dozens of violations, being a loose cannon and having shady unlikeable owners?

Most of the dozens of violations were the equivalent of parking tickets. Late to the paddock, failure to have foal papers on file, and "failure to conduct business in a proper manner" whatever that means. Most of the so-called medication violations were Lasix and Bute, legal therapeutic drugs. There were only two violations for illegal substances, Mepivacaine and Butorphanol. Read Pricci's article to see the story behind those. If being a shithead was cause for denial of license, by most accounts Zayat would be out of racing. It isn't and even if Dutrow was unlikeable, Pricci paints a pretty convincing picture of a guy who was suspended without necessarily deserving what he got. The point is, while it doesn't happen in most cases, there are some glaring examples of commissions run amok.

Stillriledup
06-19-2015, 08:29 PM
Most of the dozens of violations were the equivalent of parking tickets. Late to the paddock, failure to have foal papers on file, and "failure to conduct business in a proper manner" whatever that means. Most of the so-called medication violations were Lasix and Bute, legal therapeutic drugs. There were only two violations for illegal substances, Mepivacaine and Butorphanol. Read Pricci's article to see the story behind those. If being a shithead was cause for denial of license, by most accounts Zayat would be out of racing. It isn't and even if Dutrow was unlikeable, Pricci paints a pretty convincing picture of a guy who was suspended without necessarily deserving what he got. The point is, while it doesn't happen in most cases, there are some glaring examples of commissions run amok.

Maybe it seems that the punishment is severe because we are comparing it to wrist slap punishments. Also, why is being a 'shithead' acceptable? Be a better person and it will reflect better on the game, Dutrow didnt make one extra penny for 'being himself' he could have been a class act, stayed away from the non medication violations and stick to training horses, while i do agree with you that he was railroaded, his behavior wasnt going to win him a 'classiest guy in racing' award.

Maybe its a cautionary tale for any racing licensee who thinks that acting like a loose cannon and not abiding by the rules is acceptable.

Was not having foal papers in on time and conducting yourself like a pro so hard? What was the upside for Rick to do it 'his way'? Maybe he thought he was Frank Sinatra.

HalvOnHorseracing
06-19-2015, 09:36 PM
Maybe it seems that the punishment is severe because we are comparing it to wrist slap punishments. Also, why is being a 'shithead' acceptable? Be a better person and it will reflect better on the game, Dutrow didnt make one extra penny for 'being himself' he could have been a class act, stayed away from the non medication violations and stick to training horses, while i do agree with you that he was railroaded, his behavior wasnt going to win him a 'classiest guy in racing' award.

Maybe its a cautionary tale for any racing licensee who thinks that acting like a loose cannon and not abiding by the rules is acceptable.

Was not having foal papers in on time and conducting yourself like a pro so hard? What was the upside for Rick to do it 'his way'? Maybe he thought he was Frank Sinatra.

The more of these I've done the more I've come to the conclusion that there are a lot of trainers who see their job as just getting the horses ready to race. They don't enjoy the paperwork and other stuff that comes with running a business. I don't think there is an excuse, but when you go through trainer violation lists it's amazing how many have those parking ticket violations trainers pick up. Have you ever been late to a meeting because you were on a call with an important client? Same sort of stuff happens to trainers. There are a lot of moving parts to a training operation, and you have to have a great organization and a lot of responsible employees. Again, that's not an excuse - you took the job and you knew what the requirements were. It's just not the the trainer is sitting around with one thing to do - get the horse to the paddock. It's really not a lot different than getting parking tickets. You need to pay attention, you need to be responsible, and it's not so hard to do that a trainer can't succeed.

As for personality issues, it's not like where regular people work where there is a boss who helps "guide" employees, and mandatory training. You don't fire a successful employee first, you try to rehabilitate them. Racing doesn't quite have the organizational structure to deal with the personality guys. Guys like Pletcher, Baffert and Asmussen are kings in their worlds. I can tell you that if they held a popularity contest on the Santa Anita backside, Baffert would not finish in the top ten. Maybe their intensity and their controlling personalities has something to do with their success. I've talked to enough trainers to know that "crusty" would describe more than a few of them. And don't kid yourself - it's a really high stress job. But the point is that you don't take a ten year suspension for being a butthead.

I only know what I read about Dutrow in Pricci's article. Grove, on the other hand, was considered a good guy so his suspension wasn't related to some effort to get him, as seemed to be the case with Dutrow. In fact, everyone agreed Grove had no motive and almost certainly didn't spike the horse. Different cases, but similar in the sense trainers probably got screwed.

proximity
06-20-2015, 04:55 PM
Trainers that run stables at multiple tracks are asking for trouble, particularly at a place like Charles Town which has a well known group of unscrupulous characters. I'm not saying I don't feel sorry for Grove, I do, but he appears to have been very naive.

For three or four years there was a group of three trainers that I just bet blindly and made a nice profit. I don't think it was because they were better horsemen than the rest of the trainers.

When I see names like Julio Cartagena and Kevin Joy, I just shake my head.

yes, the article mentioned just about every move up trainer from the era except beattie and wells.

officials were just mailing it in. collecting paychecks. love this part:

Julio Cartagena was one of the names Hewick mentioned, but he didn’t pinpoint the most significant connection. When Charles Town refused to take entries from Cartagena and his daughter Keisy in 2008, Cartagena transferred the horses to the care of…Misael Ceciliano. In essence they were more than just casual acquaintances. Cartagena had employed Ceciliano to front for him at Charles Town. This was documented by getting the career training records of both Cartagenas and Ceciliano, and it was easy to match up horses that had been trained by Cartegena, flipped to Ceciliano when the raced at Charles Town, and then back to Cartegena in another state.

What is perhaps puzzling is why Danny Wright, who was a steward at the time the Cartagenas and Ceciliano were getting around the Charles Town’s refusal to take Cartagena’s entries, either failed to put two and two together or chose not to let Chris Grove know Ceciliano had been involved in a scheme with a serial drug violator in 2008, instead insisting Ceciliano was a good find for Grove. Inquiries to Wright for comment on the story have so far gone unanswered.

Stillriledup
06-20-2015, 05:04 PM
Did Julio retire? He hasnt had a starter since 2013.