What tracks and what is their "personality?"

[Laminarman]

I don't have much near me, but will be hitting Saratoga this year a few hours away. I have a "connection" and will spend some time with an owner. But I have to bet online (Tioga is close but I don't care for horses hooked to wheelchairs just yet..) I have been betting Belmont on Twinspires, as well as Finger Lakes lakes and Churchill on occasion. I'm a light player and learning. Will my success change with tracks? I avoid turf because I don't know it, but with what I'm reading I might want to give that a try. Give me several tracks a newbie should try this summer, and/or races. Thanks.

[Ocala Mike]

1. Saratoga
2. Del Mar
3. Saratoga
4. Del Mar
5. Dead heat - all others.

[Laminarman]

1. Saratoga
2. Del Mar
3. Saratoga
4. Del Mar
5. Dead heat - all others.

Do you think I should try Saratoga? DelMar? : ) I am heading to Saratoga this summer for a long weekend, have vacationed there, never went to the track. I only live three hours from there. Thank you.

[Clocker]

Do you think I should try Saratoga?

Saratoga racing can be a lot different than many other tracks. They run a lot more turf races than most, and there are 2 turf courses that are dissimilar. They also have a lot of 5.5F turf sprints that play differently than the longer turf sprints those horses were running at other tracks. And the turf changes quickly as the summer rains come and go.

Some trainers point toward that meet in prepping their horses, and it can be very much a horses for courses track. There will be a lot of discussion here as opening day draws near.

[Robert Goren]

Belmont can be tricky because it has 2 turf courses and they can play very differently. It is easy to mix them up or treat them as one when looking at the PPs when NYRA moves North.

[GatetoWire]

I don't have much near me, but will be hitting Saratoga this year a few hours away. I have a "connection" and will spend some time with an owner. But I have to bet online (Tioga is close but I don't care for horses hooked to wheelchairs just yet..) I have been betting Belmont on Twinspires, as well as Finger Lakes lakes and Churchill on occasion. I'm a light player and learning. Will my success change with tracks? I avoid turf because I don't know it, but with what I'm reading I might want to give that a try. Give me several tracks a newbie should try this summer, and/or races. Thanks.

I'm not sure you want to dabble over the summer. As a newbie you may get the best experience by picking one track and focusing on it.

Both Del Mar and Saratoga are great but you need to learn the trainers, some of their strengths and weaknesses and some of the track nuances. That can be tough if you are dabbling with multiple tracks.

[Laminarman]

I'm not sure you want to dabble over the summer. As a newbie you may get the best experience by picking one track and focusing on it.

Both Del Mar and Saratoga are great but you need to learn the trainers, some of their strengths and weaknesses and some of the track nuances. That can be tough if you are dabbling with multiple tracks.

Thank you. I'll look at DelMar. I've been mostly doing Belmont, but my luck is not too good. I think I had better strick to a track and learn. I'm reading all I can too...

[Clocker]

Thank you. I'll look at DelMar. I've been mostly doing Belmont, but my luck is not too good. I think I had better strick to a track and learn. I'm reading all I can too...

Del Mar and Saratoga have the same potential problem. Both have a meet of about a month and a half. You are unlikely to see any horse more than twice in a meet, with lots of shippers and lots of trainers pointing horses at those races.

I would recommend a track like Monmouth or Woodbine with a long season and a regular population of horses and trainers (stable stables?). Monmouth runs to the end of September and Woodbine to the end of November. And there are relatively few shippers at Woodbine. A lot of those horses never run at any other track.

[thaskalos]

Del Mar and Saratoga have the same potential problem. Both have a meet of about a month and a half. You are unlikely to see any horse more than twice in a meet, with lots of shippers and lots of trainers pointing horses at those races.

I would recommend a track like Monmouth or Woodbine with a long season and a regular population of horses and trainers (stable stables?). Monmouth runs to the end of September and Woodbine to the end of November. And there are relatively few shippers at Woodbine. A lot of those horses never run at any other track.

:ThmbUp:

My sentiments exactly. Those short meets are the beginning player's nightmare. And most of the other players' too...

It's much better if the newcomer focused on a track with a longer meet, and fewer shippers.

[raybo]

Thank you. I'll look at DelMar. I've been mostly doing Belmont, but my luck is not too good. I think I had better strick to a track and learn. I'm reading all I can too...

If your "luck" isn't too good at Belmont, what makes you think it will be any better at other tracks? My suggestion is to pick a track that has a long meet and work to get your "luck" good enough to make a flat win/exacta bet profit. I would also recommend choosing a track that ranks high on the list of tracks' average win payouts, for obvious reasons.

Starting out with a "boutique" meet like Saratoga is probably one of the worst mistakes a non-expert handicapper can make, IMO. You have horses shipping in from all over the country, many of them racing only one time, maybe two, at that meet because of it's short time period. All of this stuff adds to the "variance" you must conquer, there just isn't enough time for the racing to become "predictable" in the traditional sense of the word. You better be pretty good at selecting long shots or your chances of making a profit there, or at any of the boutique meets, is going to be highly unlikely, if not impossible.

All the tracks and their meets are listed on the Equibase site, and I'll post the top tracks by average win payout below.

Top 25 Tracks in 2014 By Average Win Price (min 50
races)

Track - Average Win Price

Del Mar $ 14.23
Gulfstream West $ 14.02
Oaklawn $ 13.99
Delta Downs $ 13.60
Keeneland $ 13.44
Remington $ 13.35
Gulfstream $ 13.17
Evangeline Downs $ 13.09
Woodbine $ 13.09
Turfway Park $ 13.01
Albuquerque $ 12.82
Tampa Bay $ 12.62
Pimlico $ 12.47
Laurel $ 12.34
Santa Anita $ 12.33
Monmouth $ 12.20
Canterbury $ 12.14
Indiana Downs $ 12.13
Retama $ 12.12
Northlands $ 12.02
Kentucky Downs $ 11.95
Fairgrounds $ 11.95
Louisiana Downs $ 11.88
Saratoga $ 11.85

[GatetoWire]

:ThmbUp:

My sentiments exactly. Those short meets are the beginning player's nightmare. And most of the other players' too...

It's much better if the newcomer focused on a track with a longer meet, and fewer shippers.

I'm going to respectfully disagree. I think Saratoga and Del Mar are great petri dishes for new players.
You can prepare well in advance. There are lots of meet related books to get you acquainted with the Trainers, nuances etc. You get a mix of all types of races and you get very high quality races.

Is it very hard?....yes....but if a new player was very observant and kept his bets small....the new player could gain a huge amount of knowledge and experience by following Saratoga or Del Mar for 6 weeks.
The sheer fact of how challenging those meets are and the variables they will encounter will make them a better player. Think of it like a handicapping boot camp.

[whodoyoulike]

I don't have much near me, but will be hitting Saratoga this year a few hours away. I have a "connection" and will spend some time with an owner. But I have to bet online (Tioga is close but I don't care for horses hooked to wheelchairs just yet..) I have been betting Belmont on Twinspires, as well as Finger Lakes lakes and Churchill on occasion. I'm a light player and learning. Will my success change with tracks? I avoid turf because I don't know it, but with what I'm reading I might want to give that a try. Give me several tracks a newbie should try this summer, and/or races. Thanks.

Just select a track which is convenient to you where you can attend live more than two or three times. Each time try and go there maybe two hours early to scope the place out. Check to see if there is early bird wagering available, I think they allow people to enter around 8 a.m. but since you're on the east coast, I don't know what the time situations will be. If there is on track early bird wagering, spend the time watching the available morning workouts. You generally won't be able to tell who the horses are
unless you're fortunate to meet an "old timer" who is willing to help you. You should just enjoy the experience and note how and where the horses start running.

Check out the paddock area before the race you're interested. Check out the grandstand area and find a nice spot to view the races. I always prefer the 2nd or 3rd floor with a view of the finish line. But, close enough to get to and back from the paddock. You'll be able to see the race running from that vantage point. I usually stand by the railing behind the box seats out of peoples way. You don't really need to find a seat, just move around.

Hopefully, you'll go when there are several high quality or stakes races running that day. Make a note of how these classy horses look and act versus lower quality horses.

Before you go make sure you view a couple times a YouTube video called the Trainer's Edge. It's dated but the concepts still apply. Search this site for the title or go to YouTube and search for the title and add horse racing.

Did you ever finish reading a book on pace handicapping?

I realize you've mentioned that you previously have been to a track but, hopefully you'll be looking at it from a different perspective and you will have another enjoyable experience.

I know this may sound like handicapping 101 bullshit but it was actually waaay over my head back then when I was starting out because there is a lot more to learn.

Just try and enjoy watching the races unfold. Also, try and bring binocs for the races and paddock (you can also slyly check out the babes).

[thaskalos]

I'm going to respectfully disagree. I think Saratoga and Del Mar are great petri dishes for new players.
You can prepare well in advance. There are lots of meet related books to get you acquainted with the Trainers, nuances etc. You get a mix of all types of races and you get very high quality races.

Is it very hard?....yes....but if a new player was very observant and kept his bets small....the new player could gain a huge amount of knowledge and experience by following Saratoga or Del Mar for 6 weeks.
The sheer fact of how challenging those meets are and the variables they will encounter will make them a better player. Think of it like a handicapping boot camp.

My turn to disagree. Yes...the short marquee meets do have important lessons to teach, but the newcomer in not yet ready to deal with the "advanced" lessons that lay ahead on his horseplaying journey. I still think that he would be better off learning the fundamentals of the game first...and those are best taught at the longer meets, with the fewer shippers...IMO. The meet-related books with the trainer and the track nuances can wait for later...

[GatetoWire]

My turn to disagree. Yes...the short marquee meets do have important lessons to teach, but the newcomer in not yet ready to deal with the "advanced" lessons that lay ahead on his horseplaying journey. I still think that he would be better off learning the fundamentals of the game first...and those are best taught at the longer meets, with the fewer shippers...IMO. The meet-related books with the trainer and the track nuances can wait for later...

How come you didn't respectfully disagree!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Laminarman]

You guys have been so valuable. I can see the pitfalls to Saratoga. But I can also see the benefit if it's somewhere I can physically get to. Whodoyoulike, upon Thaskalos recommendation in another thread I've started Pace Makes the Race. Just getting into it and honestly I was looking the usual:

Beyers
Money earned
Connections/Jockey/Trainer
Class
Lifetime figures

Never paid attention to pace until his recommendation and a little bit into the book, I realize I was missing a component of the capping process. I think I made the mistake at looking at results and not HOW those results came and what the pace/race scenario was like. I will attempt to keep learning this, but that's basically why I asked this question about tracks: so I could learn how a particular track runs and learn it. Consider it my "baby step" before betting multiple tracks on the same day. Also, if there are babes I will have binoculars available : )

[badcompany]

Another problem for beginners at Saratoga is that there are a lot of races in which all the horses are first time starters. So, if you're not a breeding expert, you're basically guessing.

Saratoga is great as a vacation spot for recreational horseplayers for whom winning isn't the be all end all.

[whodoyoulike]

... Just getting into it and honestly I was looking the usual:

Beyers
Money earned
Connections/Jockey/Trainer
Class
Lifetime figures

You'll find a lot of people use these. I'm not saying you can't select winners this way but,

Never paid attention to pace until his recommendation and a little bit into the book, I realize I was missing a component of the capping process. I think I made the mistake at looking at results and not HOW those results came and what the pace/race scenario was like. I will attempt to keep learning this, but that's basically why I asked this question about tracks: so I could learn how a particular track runs and learn it. Consider it my "baby step" before betting multiple tracks on the same day. Also, if there are babes I will have binoculars available : )

this is one of the most important things to learn whether you've been at it for 6 months or 50 years. Actually, my studies re: it has been only around 20 + years. I don't think people seriously considered it 30 years ago.

Btw, I never read that book so I can't comment. My reference to babes was for Cali tracks. I'm certain they show up elsewhere.

[appistappis]

well you get all the oohs and ahs from the horse lovers, the shade at Saratoga and the ocean at del mar et al. But if you want to make money you need big fields and low takeout. Current favorite Indiana Downs.

[TJDave]

well you get all the oohs and ahs from the horse lovers, the shade at Saratoga and the ocean at del mar et al. But if you want to make money you need big fields and low takeout. Current favorite Indiana Downs.

I can remember the first time I visited both Saratoga and Del Mar as a gambler I got sliced and diced. I still visit Del Mar occasionally during the fair meet but have never been back to Saratoga. My favorite spot is Oaklawn. Been going there regularly for almost 40 years.

[Appy]

well you get all the oohs and ahs from the horse lovers, the shade at Saratoga and the ocean at del mar et al. But if you want to make money you need big fields and low takeout. Current favorite Indiana Downs.

Agree with this track choice. But the reason I like Indiana is the higher ratio of summertime aberrant results compared to other tracks. Move to Hawthorne in the fall. Playing a circuit, one track per day proves best for me.

[Shemp Howard]

Penn National is the place for everyone who thinks "you only live once!!!!"

[EMD4ME]

I swear I don't work for them and have no vested interest but if you want

1) Form full racing
2) Good graphics (yes, a nice TV presentation of a race)
3) Trip handicapping to actually help you in your process
4) Very few supertrainers-major droppers-trainer handicapping instead of horse handicapping
5) To support a track that refuses to partake in SLOT revenue
6) To support a track that actually wants to see racing grow and thrive
7) Only runs 3 days a week (easier to keep tabs and do work on)
8) Doesn't have Turf Racing (sucks for pricing but keeps things consistent)
9) Plays nice music from 5 minutes to post till off time (It's the small things that make us happy LOL)
10) You can make money on if you're a beginner or seasoned player.

Play Emerald Downs.

[EMD4ME]

With that said, if you want to play in the Major Leagues, NYRA is my choice and there isn't a close second. Maybe it's because I love my home track. Maybe it's because Andy and Mike are so awesome. Maybe it's because Trips and Traps is so much fun and insightful. I don't know why but I will say this: If NYRA shuts down, I quit racing.

[thespaah]

Thank you. I'll look at DelMar. I've been mostly doing Belmont, but my luck is not too good. I think I had better strick to a track and learn. I'm reading all I can too...
Here's a neat angle for you....Because many outfits point their horses to the Saratoga meet( Winning there carries a bit of panache) you'll find horses shipping in. I have found that often, the regular rider will be brought in to ride the shipper. These types seem to win a lot and at bigger prices....
Also.....go to nyra.com and set up an account so that you can watch live video free of charge and view replays.
Watch races for the first two weeks of the meet. Find horses and recognize tough trips, abnormally poor starts or have scratched due to track conditions/changes. Then use equibase's 'virtual stable' to collect a few of these troubled horses. The equibase site will send you an email when a horse or horses in your virtual stable have worked or have been entered to race.

[cato]

Good golly Miss Molly, the OP has an opportunity to go to Saratoga (I assume several times or maybe for a several day trip), hang out with an owner and generally absorb the fantastic vibes and experiences that are Saratoga!

Just go! Enjoy! Have fun!

It's like the Holy Land of the races.

If you want to do some resaerch then read up some on the history of the place and some of the great races tha have taken place there.

If you want to do some handicappping, go crazy, look at the form talk aboutthe races over dinner and a drink...but keep it relatively light and be sure to soak in the place and the races...and have a great time!

Best, Frank

[whodoyoulike]

I agree. Being several hours away, he most likely will not have very many opportunities this season to attend live. He needs to orient himself once there and make the most of it and just enjoy it

I've read on here several make it an annual destination trip.

I'm not sure about this Holy Land ......

[seattlesid]

Emd4me You are right on. It is a great track to play and have fun. I used to work in a sports book back in the late 80's and I am just getting started handicapping again. Need to see if some of the old Methods still work.

[EMD4ME]

Emd4me You are right on. It is a great track to play and have fun. I used to work in a sports book back in the late 80's and I am just getting started handicapping again. Need to see if some of the old Methods still work.

I've never been to Seattle. If I ever make the trip, please guide me. I'll be sure to start a thread if I make the trip.

Emerald looks like a cool video game to me. Nice graphics, crisp, clear, nice lighting. Day and night racing. The horses even run the way I want them to!!!

Wish all tracks were like that. Plus because the track is perceived to be speed favoring, get this.......THE JOCKS actually do something called......

Send their horses.

What I like the most is many times they have a dead rail, which kills inside speed, hence some juicy logical prices.

I could talk all day about Emerald but I'll stop here.

Thanks again Steve Christ...for introducing me to Emerald Downs.

[Laminarman]

Good golly Miss Molly, the OP has an opportunity to go to Saratoga (I assume several times or maybe for a several day trip), hang out with an owner and generally absorb the fantastic vibes and experiences that are Saratoga!

Just go! Enjoy! Have fun!

It's like the Holy Land of the races.

If you want to do some resaerch then read up some on the history of the place and some of the great races tha have taken place there.

If you want to do some handicappping, go crazy, look at the form talk aboutthe races over dinner and a drink...but keep it relatively light and be sure to soak in the place and the races...and have a great time!

Best, Frank


I can't wait to go. I am not so much interested there in winning but learning what I can. And thank you, for me it's as much about fun and being a new member of the "club." Since I like this, my wife is interested, my surgeon friend and his wife are interested and at some point fun is part of the equation and that's what brings new people in. I'm sure I'll have a blast on the town in Saratoga and horse racing is theme while I'm there. My freaking wife grew up there and partied all the time and never ONCE watched a race. WTH???? She said life outside the track was more interesting. Hmmmm...

[EMD4ME]

I can't wait to go. I am not so much interested there in winning but learning what I can. And thank you, for me it's as much about fun and being a new member of the "club." Since I like this, my wife is interested, my surgeon friend and his wife are interested and at some point fun is part of the equation and that's what brings new people in. I'm sure I'll have a blast on the town in Saratoga and horse racing is theme while I'm there. My freaking wife grew up there and partied all the time and never ONCE watched a race. WTH???? She said life outside the track was more interesting. Hmmmm...

Well the nightlife is pretty good there, I do love the main strip. Welcome to the "club", it's a passion that most humans don't get to experience.

I met a horse player 20 years ago and never forgot what he asked me. He asked why do you play? I said because I love it. He asked if I gamble on anything else besides horses. I said I would not bet a nickel on any slot, casino game, sports game etc. He then told me what I didn't know as a 19 year old horse player: For you it's not about making money or cashing the ticket, you just love the problem solving equation involved here. You're mind is stimulated by the puzzle. He was 10000% right.

I love the game for that reason and many many many many more reasons. I hope you extract what you want out of it.

[seattlesid]

Please do send me a thread if you get to Seattle. When I was in Reno working at the Turf Club, I worked with a friend who used to play Aqueduct and he was very good at Handicapping that track I wish I had paid more attention to his play and NYRA is the best. Emerald downs is a very fast track early speed has been prevailing but at low odds. The only objection With EMD is Small pools other than that it's nice. I will start playing Del-Mar when it starts and will bet it light to start. I know a little bit about the horses and trainers that will be there. Most come form Santa Anita hopefully that will help me.

[whodoyoulike]

Well the nightlife is pretty good there, I do love the main strip. Welcome to the "club", it's a passion that most humans don't get to experience.

I met a horse player 20 years ago and never forgot what he asked me. He asked why do you play? I said because I love it. He asked if I gamble on anything else besides horses. I said I would not bet a nickel on any slot, casino game, sports game etc. He then told me what I didn't know as a 19 year old horse player: For you it's not about making money or cashing the ticket, you just love the problem solving equation involved here. You're mind is stimulated by the puzzle. He was 10000% right.

I love the game for that reason and many many many many more reasons. I hope you extract what you want out of it.


I wonder how many others have realized or will admit that solving the puzzle is the hook .... being able to predict a future event. But, the chance to win money is always nice.

Btw, I may be worse off than you because I like the other gambling games.

[Laminarman]

Well the nightlife is pretty good there, I do love the main strip. Welcome to the "club", it's a passion that most humans don't get to experience.

I met a horse player 20 years ago and never forgot what he asked me. He asked why do you play? I said because I love it. He asked if I gamble on anything else besides horses. I said I would not bet a nickel on any slot, casino game, sports game etc. He then told me what I didn't know as a 19 year old horse player: For you it's not about making money or cashing the ticket, you just love the problem solving equation involved here. You're mind is stimulated by the puzzle. He was 10000% right.

I love the game for that reason and many many many many more reasons. I hope you extract what you want out of it.

You have just summarized in a paragraph or two what this is all about for me. It is NOT about winning the money (although I want that.) It is NOT about the thrill (although the thrill of that one or two minutes is intoxicating.) It's about the puzzle and the challenge. Poker has never held my interest. Neither has craps or any other gambling game even though I will do them from time to time and walk away. They hold no cerebral component for me. I can look at some dude in sunglasses across from the table and wonder if he's bluffing me. OR, I can try to figure out which of these 1,000 lb animals with their 120 pound riders will have a good day and thunder home and win me some money. There is no comparison. None. This is more visceral.

[EMD4ME]

I wonder how many others have realized or will admit that solving the puzzle is the hook .... being able to predict a future event. But, the chance to win money is always nice.

Btw, I may be worse off than you because I like the other gambling games.

I don't feel like I 'admitted' a thing, I am proud of my problem solving skills as I am sure MANY on here are.

Here's a sick example: I remember liking Smarty Jones with my heart. I bet Birdstone with my pocket. Had a 5 race parlay ending to 30 plus to 1 Smarty Jones.

I always buy or am given 2 tickets to the Belmont Stakes. In 2004, I didn't buy them as I was betting against and believed he'd lose.

I was given 1 ticket by an old man who had enough and decided to leave real early.

I sat inside the 1/16 th pole, 2nd floor grandstand. To me, one of the best views at Belmont.

I sat there and screamed my ass off turning for home, kept the faith alive, like the grinch to stole xmas and rooted Birdstone up.

As soon as "Birdstone surges past. Birdstone WINS the belmont stakes" was uttered by Tom Durkin, I did a 360 to my surrounding crowd and screamed as loud as I could: Go HOME NOW. You once a year chalk eating people LOST. Enjoy the taste of defeat and laughed like a bad guy in a 1980's film.

As people stood there shocked and in awe, I kept up the riling.

I honestly loved it. I reveled in predicting that this awesome horse, who I LOVED, would lose THIS specific race. It hurt me but it made me so proud to have solved the puzzle in advance.

Weirdly, it was somewhat satisfying that I cashed for a good amount of money on Birdstone. I was more satisfied by the predicted outcome being correct.

[EMD4ME]

You have just summarized in a paragraph or two what this is all about for me. It is NOT about winning the money (although I want that.) It is NOT about the thrill (although the thrill of that one or two minutes is intoxicating.) It's about the puzzle and the challenge. Poker has never held my interest. Neither has craps or any other gambling game even though I will do them from time to time and walk away. They hold no cerebral component for me. I can look at some dude in sunglasses across from the table and wonder if he's bluffing me. OR, I can try to figure out which of these 1,000 lb animals with their 120 pound riders will have a good day and thunder home and win me some money. There is no comparison. None. This is more visceral.

I tried Poker and unless my competition is a hot femme that I want to somehow get to know, I could care less. It doesn't do it for me.

To me, there is nothing more emotionally stimulating then doing my work, finding a nugget and then watching the nugget come to fruition.

Many times, I've passed a race and watched a horse I didn't bet on win. There is a sick satisfaction of knowing, the work was worth it or see if you dig hard enough, you'll find enough information to be right on.

Conversely, that is why I absolutely detest, with a passion most jockeys. You can solve it all, know it all down to 99% certainty. It takes 1 pinhead, 1 undersized cerebral assassin to F it all up (AND I'M TALKING ABOUT RACES WHERE THE MENTAL midget is actually TRYING to win-not races where it's obviously a no go).

It's a roller coaster sometimes, ENJOY!!! and most importantly, share on here....

[EMD4ME]

Please do send me a thread if you get to Seattle. When I was in Reno working at the Turf Club, I worked with a friend who used to play Aqueduct and he was very good at Handicapping that track I wish I had paid more attention to his play and NYRA is the best. Emerald downs is a very fast track early speed has been prevailing but at low odds. The only objection With EMD is Small pools other than that it's nice. I will start playing Del-Mar when it starts and will bet it light to start. I know a little bit about the horses and trainers that will be there. Most come form Santa Anita hopefully that will help me.

The low pools don't help but you just need to bet accordingly. For example: I hit the PICK 5 Saturday and the PICK 4 5 times.

If it was NYRA I would have played the ticket 12-15 times each. It was 4 singles and all in one leg (6 horses). Cost was $3 bucks in the Pick 5 and the pick 4 (as the all was in the second leg of the pick 5 and in the start of the pick 4).

Each pool was approximately $10K before the vig. Pick 4 ended up paying $1600 and the pick 5 was worth $2850 (for $2).

Without my play, the pick 4 would've paid $2,120 and the pick 5 would've paid $4,000 for a deuce.

You can't go too wild which is frustrating but I'd rather have such a high ratio in smaller pools consistently AND at the same time do my usual play at NYRA VS. just miss out on relatively easier money at Emerald.

If you want to follow NYRA, "Talking horses" is a must watch. Andy and Mike are AWESOME. Even if you don't bet what they pick, the info provided is priceless.

[pondman]

I don't have much near me, but will be hitting Saratoga this year a few hours away. I have a "connection" and will spend some time with an owner. But I have to bet online (Tioga is close but I don't care for horses hooked to wheelchairs just yet..) I have been betting Belmont on Twinspires, as well as Finger Lakes lakes and Churchill on occasion. I'm a light player and learning. Will my success change with tracks? I avoid turf because I don't know it, but with what I'm reading I might want to give that a try. Give me several tracks a newbie should try this summer, and/or races. Thanks.

You'll have to consider that some tracks have more variances because of weather. Some of the mid-west tracks will be fast for the 1st but have a foot a water on them in the 5th. I took a look at my own records just this week. When I used a closing # on dirt route races I hit at 41% on a fast tracks. When I use the same # on a sloppy track my results dropped to 8%. So I had to completely abandoned betting anything but fast tracks, or firm turfs. If you are talking about Churchill or Finger Lakes, you've really got to understand how the weather will influence the race. You also have to realize that sprint races at FL or so much different than big purse races at a 1 1/8. You've got to use an entirely different long term approach. Same goes for Turf. You've got to use different #s. or variables. I would even suggest to look at many different handicapping products to find the right set of variables for that track.

[thespaah]

I wonder how many others have realized or will admit that solving the puzzle is the hook .... being able to predict a future event. But, the chance to win money is always nice.

Btw, I may be worse off than you because I like the other gambling games.
Sure it is....When I cash, even if it's a $15 exacta, while that's a low amount, i get the satisfaction of figuring out the challenge before me...Now some may think "hey what's so tough about nailing a 6-1 exacta?".....Nothing.
That isn't the point..hell, everyone like to hit a light up the toteboard bet....How often does this occur.
Quite frankly, in the absence of one or two $100 plus ( three digit) pays, i will take hitting 7 of 9 races and making a tidy profit..
To use a golf analogy....Make your pars. Let the birdies and eagles take care of themselves.

[pandy]

I don't have much near me, but will be hitting Saratoga this year a few hours away. I have a "connection" and will spend some time with an owner. But I have to bet online (Tioga is close but I don't care for horses hooked to wheelchairs just yet..) I have been betting Belmont on Twinspires, as well as Finger Lakes lakes and Churchill on occasion. I'm a light player and learning. Will my success change with tracks? I avoid turf because I don't know it, but with what I'm reading I might want to give that a try. Give me several tracks a newbie should try this summer, and/or races. Thanks.


Saratoga is a great track with great racing, but it is one of the toughest tracks to handicap even for good handicappers, and that's because the races are so competitive. When you can't eliminate horses, it's tougher to pick the winner. Saratoga is really for going to the races to enjoy the day, or for high rollers who can afford to use a lot of horses in rolling exotics and hope to get lucky and hit a big one.

For a good handicapper playing Saratoga, you can have a good meet but you have to pick your spots carefully.

[dansan]

Delmar will chew u up and Saratoga will spit u out

[Secondbest]

Belmont can be tricky because it has 2 turf courses and they can play very differently. It is easy to mix them up or treat them as one when looking at the PPs when NYRA moves North.
Very true.You have to treat them as separate tracks.