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View Full Version : SHUT UP Mountaineer handicappers


molson721
06-08-2015, 09:51 PM
Let me first start off by saying I like to listen to the Mountaineer race analysts discuss the race. I have one problem, WHY MUST THEY DISCUSS THEIR HANDICAPPING THOUGHTS UNTIL THERE IS 1 MINUTE TO POST? Is there any other track that has handicappers express their opinions and pick the race so close to post time. I wager online but how does this help me when they talk so long about their selections until there is 1 minute to post or less? I have been told they read and post here so please listen to me. SHUT UP when there are 5 minutes to post so I can digest your thoughts. I can't use them if you talk till they are about to load in the gate. Name a track where the analysts keep discussing the race so close to post time. Am I asking too much?:bang:

iceknight
06-08-2015, 09:59 PM
Let me first start off by saying I like to listen to the Mountaineer race analysts discuss the race. I have one problem, WHY MUST THEY DISCUSS THEIR HANDICAPPING THOUGHTS UNTIL THERE IS 1 MINUTE TO POST? Is there any other track that has handicappers express their opinions and pick the race so close to post time. I wager online but how does this help me when they talk so long about their selections until there is 1 minute to post or less? I have been told they read and post here so please listen to me. SHUT UP when there are 5 minutes to post so I can digest your thoughts. I can't use them if you talk till they are about to load in the gate. Name a track where the analysts keep discussing the race so close to post time. Am I asking too much?:bang: You might have a legitimate grouse, but with language like what you are using you are going to have people listening to you.

Some_One
06-08-2015, 10:44 PM
Let me first start off by saying I like to listen to the Mountaineer race analysts discuss the race. I have one problem, WHY MUST THEY DISCUSS THEIR HANDICAPPING THOUGHTS UNTIL THERE IS 1 MINUTE TO POST? Is there any other track that has handicappers express their opinions and pick the race so close to post time. I wager online but how does this help me when they talk so long about their selections until there is 1 minute to post or less? I have been told they read and post here so please listen to me. SHUT UP when there are 5 minutes to post so I can digest your thoughts. I can't use them if you talk till they are about to load in the gate. Name a track where the analysts keep discussing the race so close to post time. Am I asking too much?:bang:

The HK telecast does the same thing.

And if you don't want to listen to them, hit the f'ing mute button on your media player. Obviously there are some other there who do want to listen to them, why should the world revolve around you?

castaway01
06-08-2015, 10:47 PM
I always thought the Mountaineer broadcast was more like "two friends talking about the race" like they were sitting with you as post time approached rather than the usual paddock discussion that ends with 10 minutes to post. I like it because it's different and Mark and Nancy are knowledgeable.

iceknight
06-08-2015, 11:02 PM
You might have a legitimate grouse, but with language like what you are using you are going to have people listening to you. not.

letswastemoney
06-09-2015, 03:35 AM
Just don't let the talking bother you. If you're opinionated enough and trust your thoughts, what difference does it make what they say 1 minute to post.

lamboguy
06-09-2015, 04:30 AM
i guess people get pretty touchy over nothing. its like cash in your pocket if you know how to listen to the Mountaineer simulcast. just last night i was about to miss the 2 furlong race, the horse that won it was more of a cinch than AMERICAN PHAROAH was in the Belmont stakes. i wound up playing and cashing the race pretty good. Mark also pushed to go in on the Eric Reed horse to place in the maiden race. as it happens, i didn't like betting to place on that horse so i passed, but the horse still won.

this is the real world, its not that easy to pick and bet $20 horses, these guys will annalise short priced horses and help you with the probabilities.

Stillriledup
06-09-2015, 04:43 AM
Just don't let the talking bother you. If you're opinionated enough and trust your thoughts, what difference does it make what they say 1 minute to post.

If you are at home you can mute when you want to concentrate. It's tough if you are at a track and are forced to listen when you need to concentrate on your betting structures. Some track announcers are extremely annoying constantly talking right and making "announcements" right up till the load and then still talking during the load, it's just another reason to not go to the track, too much noise pollution that you don't have to deal with at home.

mountainman
06-09-2015, 09:39 AM
God knows, I'm not perfect, and the guy has a legit point. But For better or worse, I could never do superficial analysis. Even after 15 years on the show, most races still enthuse me and present subtleties that require local knowledge and just can't be illuminated in 20 seconds.

Also, it has always been our custom to cover every horse. In addition, predicting tote moves and corrections is undoubtedly one of my strong-suits, and I have to stay WITH the board action to remark on it.

To be honest, my success as a tv analyst has always surprised me, because my handicapping style and philosophies don't lend themselves to concise presentation. It's things like trainer intent, track bias, race conditions and riding strategy that hopefully separate me from some other talking heads. And those elements can't be covered in 30 seconds.

So if you like standard blow-by analysis ( the 3 has speed , the 6 is consistent, blah blah blah) ours will never be your favorite show. But, again, the gentleman DOES have a legitimate gripe, and we will try to get out sooner. Either way, thanks for the comments, and thanks for watching.

cnollfan
06-09-2015, 10:36 AM
God knows, I'm not perfect, and the guy has a legit point. But For better or worse, I could never do superficial analysis. Even after 15 years on the show, most races still enthuse me and present subtleties that require local knowledge and just can't be illuminated in 20 seconds.

Also, it has always been our custom to cover every horse. In addition, predicting tote moves and corrections is undoubtedly one of my strong-suits, and I have to stay WITH the board action to remark on it.

To be honest, my success as a tv analyst has always surprised me, because my handicapping style and philosophies don't lend themselves to concise presentation. It's things like trainer intent, track bias, race conditions and riding strategy that hopefully separate me from some other talking heads. And those elements can't be covered in 30 seconds.

So if you like standard blow-by analysis ( the 3 has speed , the 6 is consistent, blah blah blah) ours will never be your favorite show. But, again, the gentleman DOES have a legitimate gripe, and we will try to get out sooner. Either way, thanks for the comments, and thanks for watching.

MountainMan, yours is the only prerace commentary I don't mute.

Peter Berry
06-09-2015, 10:52 AM
What Mark didn't mention is that a few years ago, at the request of the West Virginia Racing Commission, I began introducing each runner as they came onto the track. This can take anywhere from 45-90 seconds. It's probable that time would be better served with handicapping discussion, although I can understand both sides. I will revisit the subject with my boss.

mountainman
06-09-2015, 10:59 AM
We do get squeezed on the other end, but it's still unfair of us to impinge on an announcer of Pete's caliber. As post time draws near, the floor must be his. We aren't Mountaineer's only assets, and of this we are acutely aware.

Peter Berry
06-09-2015, 11:50 AM
We do get squeezed on the other end, but it's still unfair of us to impinge on an announcer of Pete's caliber. As post time draws near, the floor must be his. We aren't Mountaineer's only assets, and of this we are acutely aware.
I'm a small cog in the Mountaineer machine.

powerrun
06-09-2015, 11:58 AM
God knows, I'm not perfect, and the guy has a legit point. But For better or worse, I could never do superficial analysis. Even after 15 years on the show, most races still enthuse me and present subtleties that require local knowledge and just can't be illuminated in 20 seconds.

Also, it has always been our custom to cover every horse. In addition, predicting tote moves and corrections is undoubtedly one of my strong-suits, and I have to stay WITH the board action to remark on it.

To be honest, my success as a tv analyst has always surprised me, because my handicapping style and philosophies don't lend themselves to concise presentation. It's things like trainer intent, track bias, race conditions and riding strategy that hopefully separate me from some other talking heads. And those elements can't be covered in 30 seconds.

So if you like standard blow-by analysis ( the 3 has speed , the 6 is consistent, blah blah blah) ours will never be your favorite show. But, again, the gentleman DOES have a legitimate gripe, and we will try to get out sooner. Either way, thanks for the comments, and thanks for watching.


I just want to say that I enjoy your (and Nancy's) analysis. I am particularly fond of maiden races so I like to see what you have to say about the first time starters. Keep up the great work!

RarifiedAir
06-09-2015, 12:48 PM
God knows, I'm not perfect, and the guy has a legit point. But For better or worse, I could never do superficial analysis. Even after 15 years on the show, most races still enthuse me and present subtleties that require local knowledge and just can't be illuminated in 20 seconds.

Also, it has always been our custom to cover every horse. In addition, predicting tote moves and corrections is undoubtedly one of my strong-suits, and I have to stay WITH the board action to remark on it.

To be honest, my success as a tv analyst has always surprised me, because my handicapping style and philosophies don't lend themselves to concise presentation. It's things like trainer intent, track bias, race conditions and riding strategy that hopefully separate me from some other talking heads. And those elements can't be covered in 30 seconds.

So if you like standard blow-by analysis ( the 3 has speed , the 6 is consistent, blah blah blah) ours will never be your favorite show. But, again, the gentleman DOES have a legitimate gripe, and we will try to get out sooner. Either way, thanks for the comments, and thanks for watching.

Hi Mark. Just allow me to say... YOU ROCK! Ditto Nancy. I have nothing but praise and have been watching probably since you and Nancy started. Outstanding!

Ok Mark... a question. Don't feel you have to answer. I remember a long while back now. It was the 2nd to last race. You were all over an 8-1 (or so) shot really talking it up. Well that 8-1 dominated late and won easy. BUT... an inquiry came up and that horse got DQed. I watched that and no way should that have been a DQ. Well you didn't come on for the last race it was just Nancy. I thought you got robbed and maybe needed that time to cool down. Or maybe not. Still something I remember for some reason.

Dave Schwartz
06-09-2015, 12:56 PM
I do not play Mountaineer often because I usually play day tracks. However, when I do, Mark & Nancy are about the only handicappers I actually leave on to listen to until post time.

I kind of like the "two old friends collaborating" thing.

Of course, with the "other guys" that I don't enjoy near as much, God invented the mute button.

mountainvalleypete
06-09-2015, 01:27 PM
The fact that Mountaineer now only has 22 minutes in between each race does not help matters. I spoke to a track official back in March about it, and he/she said that the 22 minute intervals were because of the cold weather. That excuse has since proven to be false. I personally believe the old 25 minute interval is perfect for any track.
If anyone should be complaining about this whole situation though, it should be those of us who are frequently on-track sitting at TV's having to run to the teller to make our bets. That said, as much as I respect what a great job Mark and Nancy do, they rarely talk me off the horses I like. :p

molson721
06-09-2015, 04:50 PM
God knows, I'm not perfect, and the guy has a legit point. But For better or worse, I could never do superficial analysis. Even after 15 years on the show, most races still enthuse me and present subtleties that require local knowledge and just can't be illuminated in 20 seconds.

Also, it has always been our custom to cover every horse. In addition, predicting tote moves and corrections is undoubtedly one of my strong-suits, and I have to stay WITH the board action to remark on it.

To be honest, my success as a tv analyst has always surprised me, because my handicapping style and philosophies don't lend themselves to concise presentation. It's things like trainer intent, track bias, race conditions and riding strategy that hopefully separate me from some other talking heads. And those elements can't be covered in 30 seconds.

So if you like standard blow-by analysis ( the 3 has speed , the 6 is consistent, blah blah blah) ours will never be your favorite show. But, again, the gentleman DOES have a legitimate gripe, and we will try to get out sooner. Either way, thanks for the comments, and thanks for watching.
Thanks for understanding what I said in my post. The mount is the only place where I listen to commentary of a race because I am not as familiar with the track as others I play but it is difficult to use what you both have said without a few minutes before post to digest it all. I don't want to mute you like some suggested I should do, I just want some time to consider your insights with maybe 3 minutes to post and not when they start loading the horses like has happened on occasion. I enjoy you and Nancy despite what some people think is an attack on you.
Peter is also great as a race caller. Thanks to both of you for coming here and listening to the fan.

mountainman
06-10-2015, 03:13 PM
Hi Mark. Just allow me to say... YOU ROCK! Ditto Nancy. I have nothing but praise and have been watching probably since you and Nancy started. Outstanding!

Ok Mark... a question. Don't feel you have to answer. I remember a long while back now. It was the 2nd to last race. You were all over an 8-1 (or so) shot really talking it up. Well that 8-1 dominated late and won easy. BUT... an inquiry came up and that horse got DQed. I watched that and no way should that have been a DQ. Well you didn't come on for the last race it was just Nancy. I thought you got robbed and maybe needed that time to cool down. Or maybe not. Still something I remember for some reason.

tx, dude..i was bummed out, for sure, but the reason for my departure was business in the racing office. I also serve as mnr's ast racing secretary..

v j stauffer
06-10-2015, 04:34 PM
Let me first start off by saying I like to listen to the Mountaineer race analysts discuss the race. I have one problem, WHY MUST THEY DISCUSS THEIR HANDICAPPING THOUGHTS UNTIL THERE IS 1 MINUTE TO POST? Is there any other track that has handicappers express their opinions and pick the race so close to post time. I wager online but how does this help me when they talk so long about their selections until there is 1 minute to post or less? I have been told they read and post here so please listen to me. SHUT UP when there are 5 minutes to post so I can digest your thoughts. I can't use them if you talk till they are about to load in the gate. Name a track where the analysts keep discussing the race so close to post time. Am I asking too much?:bang:

If you were winning you wouldn't care if they wore grass skirts and did the watusi long into the night.

Handicap better. You won't need to manufacture scapegoats.

v j stauffer
06-10-2015, 04:44 PM
God knows, I'm not perfect, and the guy has a legit point. But For better or worse, I could never do superficial analysis. Even after 15 years on the show, most races still enthuse me and present subtleties that require local knowledge and just can't be illuminated in 20 seconds.

Also, it has always been our custom to cover every horse. In addition, predicting tote moves and corrections is undoubtedly one of my strong-suits, and I have to stay WITH the board action to remark on it.

To be honest, my success as a tv analyst has always surprised me, because my handicapping style and philosophies don't lend themselves to concise presentation. It's things like trainer intent, track bias, race conditions and riding strategy that hopefully separate me from some other talking heads. And those elements can't be covered in 30 seconds.

So if you like standard blow-by analysis ( the 3 has speed , the 6 is consistent, blah blah blah) ours will never be your favorite show. But, again, the gentleman DOES have a legitimate gripe, and we will try to get out sooner. Either way, thanks for the comments, and thanks for watching.

IMO changing ANYTHING about the format would be a mistake. The show is excellent. Keep up the great work.

VeryOldMan
06-10-2015, 04:49 PM
If you were winning you wouldn't care if they wore grass skirts and did the watusi long into the night.

Handicap better. You won't need to manufacture scapegoats.
This

I've previously posted that I don't particularly care for Mountaineer's racing - but Mark and Nancy are extremely insightful about their product. Extremely. Listen to them and learn if you want to handicap Mountaineer.

mountainman
06-10-2015, 04:49 PM
I do not play Mountaineer often because I usually play day tracks. However, when I do, Mark & Nancy are about the only handicappers I actually leave on to listen to until post time.

I kind of like the "two old friends collaborating" thing.

Of course, with the "other guys" that I don't enjoy near as much, God invented the mute button.

an endorsement from you means much, sir

Stillriledup
06-10-2015, 04:50 PM
IMO changing ANYTHING about the format would be a mistake. The show is excellent. Keep up the great work.

You know the old saying, if you are staying the same, youre getting worse or something like that. The OP had a suggestion, why just toss it aside and act offended? Maybe the OP was abrasive with the way he posted, but isnt the idea to have the best show possible and look to improve anyway you can? Im sure if Mark thought he could improve something he would look into improving it.

VeryOldMan
06-10-2015, 04:52 PM
IMO changing ANYTHING about the format would be a mistake. The show is excellent. Keep up the great work.
+1

VeryOldMan
06-10-2015, 04:58 PM
Maybe the OP was abrasive with the way he posted, but isnt the idea to have the best show possible and look to improve anyway you can? Im sure if Mark thought he could improve something he would look into improving it.

Fair point - at what point before post time should the mike be shut down completely for track handicappers?

mountainman
06-10-2015, 04:59 PM
IMO changing ANYTHING about the format would be a mistake. The show is excellent. Keep up the great work.

when a guy with YOUR resume posts this, it's a good day for me-whatever else happens...my deep respect for your accomplishments and skills is well documented on this forum

mountainman
06-10-2015, 05:00 PM
This

I've previously posted that I don't particularly care for Mountaineer's racing - but Mark and Nancy are extremely insightful about their product. Extremely. Listen to them and learn if you want to handicap Mountaineer.

many tx, my friend

mountainman
06-10-2015, 05:02 PM
Thanks for understanding what I said in my post. The mount is the only place where I listen to commentary of a race because I am not as familiar with the track as others I play but it is difficult to use what you both have said without a few minutes before post to digest it all. I don't want to mute you like some suggested I should do, I just want some time to consider your insights with maybe 3 minutes to post and not when they start loading the horses like has happened on occasion. I enjoy you and Nancy despite what some people think is an attack on you.
Peter is also great as a race caller. Thanks to both of you for coming here and listening to the fan.

no offense was taken, sir...and tx for the input

Stillriledup
06-10-2015, 05:15 PM
Fair point - at what point before post time should the mike be shut down completely for track handicappers?

The op's suggestion has some merit, players do like to concentrate with the horses walking to the gate, but much of the money bet on mountain is bet from people in their living rooms, which means the chatter at 0 mtp is never a problem because anyone at home can mute anything anytime they want.

Maybe the OP and one other person cares about this issue, i would imagine more people want to hear the analysis till the very end, so if they changed anything it would be to accomodate only a small handful of people.

If mtn got 500 e mails on this subject thats one thing, but the OP is prob the only person in America who has a gripe w this, and you know that you cant please everyone. I guess the idea is to please as many people as you can while staying true to doing what you believe is the right thing to do.

lamboguy
06-10-2015, 06:04 PM
just want to give a public handicapper some credit, today Matt C. of TVG picked a $90 winner as his only selection to a race somewhere, i think it was belmont

mountainman
06-10-2015, 06:40 PM
If you were winning you wouldn't care if they wore grass skirts and did the watusi long into the night.

.

Actually, our official dance is the Bristol stomp-except on Saturdays, when it's the pony . I wear tight leather pants, my partner a sarong. We're considering the stroll. Now THAT, would be hot.

RarifiedAir
06-10-2015, 08:51 PM
when a guy with YOUR resume posts this, it's a good day for me-whatever else happens...my deep respect for your accomplishments and skills is well documented on this forum

Agreed. Just Heard Vic on TVG classic 2004 Hollywood race with Rock Hard Ten. Enjoyed and hope to hear him again soon.

castaway01
06-10-2015, 09:09 PM
You know the old saying, if you are staying the same, youre getting worse or something like that. The OP had a suggestion, why just toss it aside and act offended? Maybe the OP was abrasive with the way he posted, but isnt the idea to have the best show possible and look to improve anyway you can? Im sure if Mark thought he could improve something he would look into improving it.

In what way did Mark toss the suggestion aside and act offended? A guy he didn't even know told him to shut up, and he responded to that statement with much more tact that he had to. In fact, I'd say he went out of his way to be nice and say he'd consider what the guy said. And the OP said that was fine. You're the only one being abrasive and trying stir up trouble with your trolling.

paulbenny
06-10-2015, 09:16 PM
I watch hundreds of races per week, at times. I am very willing to listen to both of you. You are very good in terms of what you bring to bear. No egos, nice people, know the colony and the trainers. I appreciate what you do. I think that for example, NYRA, well they are media driven. No one shows ROI, but my suspicion is you are certainly as good as anyone else. I always wanted to do what you do, and you impress me more than the NY guys, as an example.

Stillriledup
06-10-2015, 09:27 PM
In what way did Mark toss the suggestion aside and act offended? A guy he didn't even know told him to shut up, and he responded to that statement with much more tact that he had to. In fact, I'd say he went out of his way to be nice and say he'd consider what the guy said. And the OP said that was fine. You're the only one being abrasive and trying stir up trouble with your trolling.

When all else fails, read the post of the person I responded to. Your post here is nothing but trash, but you're good at trash, so you keep being you, never change.

chenoa
06-10-2015, 11:15 PM
God knows, I'm not perfect, and the guy has a legit point. But For better or worse, I could never do superficial analysis. Even after 15 years on the show, most races still enthuse me and present subtleties that require local knowledge and just can't be illuminated in 20 seconds.

Also, it has always been our custom to cover every horse. In addition, predicting tote moves and corrections is undoubtedly one of my strong-suits, and I have to stay WITH the board action to remark on it.

To be honest, my success as a tv analyst has always surprised me, because my handicapping style and philosophies don't lend themselves to concise presentation. It's things like trainer intent, track bias, race conditions and riding strategy that hopefully separate me from some other talking heads. And those elements can't be covered in 30 seconds.

So if you like standard blow-by analysis ( the 3 has speed , the 6 is consistent, blah blah blah) ours will never be your favorite show. But, again, the gentleman DOES have a legitimate gripe, and we will try to get out sooner. Either way, thanks for the comments, and thanks for watching.

MountainMan we love listening to your insight up here in Canada. God Bless.

EMD4ME
06-10-2015, 11:18 PM
MountainMan we love listening to your insight up here in Canada. God Bless.

Mountainman. You are awesome. Don't change a darn thing about the show. If someone doesn't like it, mute it.

Your show is unique. Besides Andy Serling and Mike Beer, you are the only 1 I listen to AND I DON'T EVEN REALLY wager on MNR.

Keep up the SPECTACULAR work. Not good work. Not great work, the amazingly spectacular work.

Your attention to detail is second to none.

appistappis
06-11-2015, 02:28 AM
seems everyone should be concerned with the small fields and not who and when an analyst talks.

Redbullsnation
06-11-2015, 02:33 AM
Wow, OP, you mad :D

I think it is weird to be handicapping the race with a minute to post time but not to a point I would go mental. It isn't THAT much of a big deal to me

v j stauffer
06-11-2015, 03:29 AM
Agreed. Just Heard Vic on TVG classic 2004 Hollywood race with Rock Hard Ten. Enjoyed and hope to hear him again soon.

Thanks.

What a TRUCK he was. Good memories.

If the offers we got on our house today are any indication you could well be hearing me much sooner than anticipated. :ThmbDown:

v j stauffer
06-11-2015, 03:31 AM
seems everyone should be concerned with the small fields and not who and when an analyst talks.

Everybody got that? Ok on three. One, two...........change.

thaskalos
06-11-2015, 03:49 AM
There is no handicapping show like Mountainman's to be found anywhere in this country...and to cut it short is a grave error, IMO. Mountaineer displays certain idiosyncrasies which demand that the bettor keep an open mind until the very late stages of the betting period...and Mountainman is the horseplayer's best friend in that setting. To say that I hold him and his show in the highest esteem is putting it mildly. :ThmbUp:

Relwob Owner
06-11-2015, 07:16 AM
Mountainman. You are awesome. Don't change a darn thing about the show. If someone doesn't like it, mute it.

Your show is unique. Besides Andy Serling and Mike Beer, you are the only 1 I listen to AND I DON'T EVEN REALLY wager on MNR.

Keep up the SPECTACULAR work. Not good work. Not great work, the amazingly spectacular work.

Your attention to detail is second to none.


:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

Immanuel Kant
06-11-2015, 08:24 AM
Actually, our official dance is the Bristol stomp-except on Saturdays, when it's the pony . I wear tight leather pants, my partner a sarong. We're considering the stroll. Now THAT, would be hot.

I was thinking you and Nancy doing Archie Bell and the Drells "Tighten Up" would be must-see-TV!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN7vm-k-AaA

mountainman
06-11-2015, 09:44 AM
There is no handicapping show like Mountainman's to be found anywhere in this country...and to cut it short is a grave error, IMO. Mountaineer displays certain idiosyncrasies which demand that the bettor keep an open mind until the very late stages of the betting period...and Mountainman is the horseplayer's best friend in that setting. To say that I hold him and his show in the highest esteem is putting it mildly. :ThmbUp:

humbling, from a guy who handicaps better than I do, and is, in my opinion, the heart of this preeminent forum

jimmy m
06-11-2015, 12:53 PM
Everybody has a right to the there opinion. I wish he would have worded it different, I hate the words shut up. Mountaineer is one of the signals I watch for the handicapping show. That is a great talent to talk that long up and to the race and he keep it interesting. One of my favorite moments in this game was my visit to Mountaineer back in 07 and watch a few races with them they were very nice and made me feel very welcome.

PaceAdvantage
06-11-2015, 04:42 PM
Since I closed the NYRA handicapper bashfest, it's only fitting I close this attempted bashfest turned lovefest as well... :lol: