View Full Version : What's next for American Pharoah?
Bigadam119
06-07-2015, 03:26 PM
Where does he go if he continues to race?? I think he'll stay east. Possibly the Haskell then Travers. Not sure what they would do as a Breeders Cup prep.
MutuelClerk
06-07-2015, 03:31 PM
Rest. He's earned it.
letswastemoney
06-07-2015, 03:45 PM
2 prep races
Breeders Cup
retirement
Bigadam119
06-07-2015, 04:13 PM
The connections said 3 Prep races this morning
Some_One
06-07-2015, 05:02 PM
The connections said 3 Prep races this morning
Haskell, Travers, JCGC?
happy camper
06-07-2015, 05:05 PM
Any chance he does the PA Derby like Chrome last year? Didn't CC get 1 million just to race?
Kash$
06-07-2015, 05:22 PM
As Whittingham would say "the horse will tell us "
Bigadam119
06-07-2015, 05:27 PM
Haskell, Travers, JCGC?
Baffert loves the Haskell, I would think that's next.
Bigadam119
06-07-2015, 05:30 PM
Any chance he does the PA Derby like Chrome last year? Didn't CC get 1 million just to race?
I would love that as Parx is my home track. Baffert did have success with the PA derby as a BC prep last year. I don't see him running in anything but G1's though.
Paseana
06-07-2015, 05:59 PM
Baffert loves the Haskell, I would think that's next.
I really think Baffert has the Haskell targeted for Dortmund.
andtheyreoff
06-07-2015, 08:08 PM
I really think Baffert has the Haskell targeted for Dortmund.
If only Dortmund goes to the Haskell, I'll be upset. It would be so bland and predictable.
I really hope he sends American Pharaoh. I already got my tickets.
horses4courses
06-07-2015, 08:11 PM
If only Dortmund goes to the Haskell, I'll be upset. It would be so bland and predictable.
I really hope he sends American Pharaoh. I already got my tickets.
I'd be very surprised if those two face each other again,
unless they both make the BC Classic.
thespaah
06-07-2015, 10:07 PM
Where does he go if he continues to race?? I think he'll stay east. Possibly the Haskell then Travers. Not sure what they would do as a Breeders Cup prep.
I believe the owners of AP will realize the horse's value as blood stock is too great to risk. They retire the colt.
JMO
thespaah
06-07-2015, 10:09 PM
The connections said 3 Prep races this morning
No kidding...Well, from a fan's point of view, good for them....From a business standpoint, ehhh.......That horse must be heavily insured against any injury which would render the horse unable to procreate or of course the horse's untimely demise.
pandy
06-08-2015, 07:47 AM
I really think Baffert has the Haskell targeted for Dortmund.
I agree. I'd be shocked if American Pharoah isn't pointed the Travers. The Travers and BC Classic are the two main goals. If Dortmund wins the Haskell, which I think he will, and Firing Line comes back good, the classic could be a heck of a race.
Fager Fan
06-08-2015, 08:13 AM
I believe the owners of AP will realize the horse's value as blood stock is too great to risk. They retire the colt.
JMO
Not a chance. The horse is already sold. Zayat has nothing to lose by continuing to race him and everything to gain (kickers, purse money, attention, adulation). He'll run as many times as possible.
TravisVOX
06-08-2015, 08:32 AM
Zayat's office is in New Jersey. They've already mentioned it. I'd be fairly surprised if the Haskell wasn't on their radar.
Not a chance. The horse is already sold. Zayat has nothing to lose by continuing to race him and everything to gain (kickers, purse money, attention, adulation). He'll run as many times as possible.
There are times, unfortunately, when horses don't make it back from a race.
Bigadam119
06-08-2015, 10:08 AM
It looks like they are going to point towards the Haskell. Ahmad Zayat said that this morning.
Stillriledup
06-08-2015, 10:45 AM
There are times, unfortunately, when horses don't make it back from a race.
This trainer also has a knack for getting horses mysteriously dead too.
PaceAdvantage
06-08-2015, 10:47 AM
This trainer also has a knack for getting horses mysteriously dead too.I see you're vying for today's DOTD award...
pandy
06-08-2015, 10:49 AM
Well, if he runs in the Haskell I hope he also goes in the Travers. Haskell, Travers, BC Classic would be a nice way to end his career.
ReplayRandall
06-08-2015, 10:59 AM
Well, if he runs in the Haskell I hope he also goes in the Travers. Haskell, Travers, BC Classic would be a nice way to end his career.
Let's hope Zayat gives racing fans more than 3 races before they retire him.
After TC Belmont win:
Secretariat had 6 races
Seattle Slew had 8 races
Affirmed had 13 races
Bigadam119
06-08-2015, 11:00 AM
Well, if he runs in the Haskell I hope he also goes in the Travers. Haskell, Travers, BC Classic would be a nice way to end his career.
I see that being the most likely scenario. The only mystery is what reach between the Travers and BC? JCGC? That's a tough race. I think he stays in the East though.
onefast99
06-08-2015, 11:02 AM
Both the owner and trainer get $150k for just showing up Haskell Day!
DeltaLover
06-08-2015, 11:09 AM
Let's hope Zayat gives racing fans more than 3 races before they retire him.
After TC Belmont win:
Secretariat had 6 races
Seattle Slew had 8 races
Affirmed had 13 races
I he matures the way he is supposed to, I will not be very surprised if after sweeping the rest of this year's classics, we even see him for a four year old campaign!
Bigadam119
06-08-2015, 11:11 AM
Both the owner and trainer get $150k for just showing up Haskell Day!
If AP were to win the Haskell and Travers. The owner and trainer would each get $250k to run in the PA derby as a BC prep.
onefast99
06-08-2015, 11:25 AM
If AP were to win the Haskell and Travers. The owner and trainer would each get $250k to run in the PA derby as a BC prep.
I'm sure in the next few days Zayat will command the headlines again on where AP will go to next.
pandy
06-08-2015, 12:01 PM
I noticed that Rome said that Shared Belief will be back on the track soon. Can he be ready for the Classic? That would be some match up.
Bigadam119
06-08-2015, 12:03 PM
Well, if he runs in the Haskell I hope he also goes in the Travers. Haskell, Travers, BC Classic would be a nice way to end his career.
If he takes this route and wins them all. He will have won G1 races at all 6 major tracks (Del Mar, Santa Anita, Churchill Downs, Belmont, Saratoga, and Keeneland). Has this ever been done before?
classhandicapper
06-08-2015, 01:21 PM
I noticed that Rome said that Shared Belief will be back on the track soon. Can he be ready for the Classic? That would be some match up.
Wow, that would be incredible.
DeltaLover
06-08-2015, 01:24 PM
Wow, that would be incredible.
I think the SB has the potential for several more racing seasons, something that is going to be fantastic for the gam. Can he evolve to become something like the next Forego or John Henry (I would also add the name KELSO to the list but probably this would have been a little unfair to him!)
GatetoWire
06-08-2015, 01:57 PM
Not a chance. The horse is already sold. Zayat has nothing to lose by continuing to race him and everything to gain (kickers, purse money, attention, adulation). He'll run as many times as possible.
This is bang on.
How ironic that because Zayat sold his rights back in January that he is actually more valuable to Zayat to race than to retire.
Coolmore gambled and got the buy of the century and because of it we should get to see him run a few more times.
Wow, that would be incredible.
Unless Baffert enters Dortmund to ensure the break! :rolleyes:
onefast99
06-08-2015, 02:30 PM
This is bang on.
How ironic that because Zayat sold his rights back in January that he is actually more valuable to Zayat to race than to retire.
Coolmore gambled and got the buy of the century and because of it we should get to see him run a few more times.
Zayat still has the mare that produced AP and has 75% ownership in POTN who will stand for a reported $100000 to $125000 he now stands for $60000.
JustRalph
06-08-2015, 03:15 PM
I believe the owners of AP will realize the horse's value as blood stock is too great to risk. They retire the colt.
JMO
If he was mine.... he would never run again.
Put him away and enjoy the babies
ReplayRandall
06-08-2015, 03:18 PM
If he was mine.... he would never run again.
Put him away and enjoy the babies
I'm glad he's not yours.... :)
Fager Fan
06-08-2015, 04:08 PM
Zayat still has the mare that produced AP and has 75% ownership in POTN who will stand for a reported $100000 to $125000 he now stands for $60000.
No, he sold the mare to pay off some of the bankruptcy debts. It's also unclear how much he still owns of POTN, no one seems to know for sure.
onefast99
06-08-2015, 04:47 PM
No, he sold the mare to pay off some of the bankruptcy debts. It's also unclear how much he still owns of POTN, no one seems to know for sure.
Mike Francesca said today on his show he still owns the mare and 75% of POTN.
While Zayat will profit off the race, he’s already sold American Pharoah’s breeding rights. Thanks to what he called dumb luck, he does, however, still own 75 percent of American Pharoah’s father, Pioneerof the Nile, which might turn out to be more profitable.
thespaah
06-08-2015, 07:32 PM
Not a chance. The horse is already sold. Zayat has nothing to lose by continuing to race him and everything to gain (kickers, purse money, attention, adulation). He'll run as many times as possible.
The horse has not been sold. Only the breeding rights have been sold.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/21/sports/zayat-sells-breeding-rights-to-american-pharoah.html?_r=0
thespaah
06-08-2015, 07:34 PM
This trainer also has a knack for getting horses mysteriously dead too.
Come on SRU....For Christ's sake. Can you please give it a rest for ONE day?
Fager Fan
06-08-2015, 07:55 PM
The horse has not been sold. Only the breeding rights have been sold.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/21/sports/zayat-sells-breeding-rights-to-american-pharoah.html?_r=0
Same difference. They take physical possession of the horse since there isn't exactly any other way for him to breed otherwise.
thespaah
06-08-2015, 07:58 PM
Well, if he runs in the Haskell I hope he also goes in the Travers. Haskell, Travers, BC Classic would be a nice way to end his career.
NYRA should bump the Travers purse as an incentive for Zayat to divert the plane carrying AP from Newark to Albany.
Fager Fan
06-08-2015, 07:58 PM
Mike Francesca said today on his show he still owns the mare and 75% of POTN.
While Zayat will profit off the race, he’s already sold American Pharoah’s breeding rights. Thanks to what he called dumb luck, he does, however, still own 75 percent of American Pharoah’s father, Pioneerof the Nile, which might turn out to be more profitable.
I've heard differently, which isn't a surprise as there are at least a dozen rumors regarding each of the three horses. I feel confident that he sold the mare based on who told me this, but I guess we'll find out in coming months when she or her offspring are sold.
thespaah
06-08-2015, 08:01 PM
If he was mine.... he would never run again.
Put him away and enjoy the babies
That's why they invented insurance.
Stillriledup
06-08-2015, 08:04 PM
Come on SRU....For Christ's sake. Can you please give it a rest for ONE day?
Ok but only one day. Back to my insufferable self tomorrow. ;)
nads1420
06-10-2015, 07:36 AM
I'd be very surprised if those two face each other again,
unless they both make the BC Classic.
Would Bayern and Dortmund be a coupled entry in the Classic?
nads1420
06-10-2015, 07:37 AM
I see you're vying for today's DOTD award...
You should really start a thread and award that once a day
Grits
06-10-2015, 08:20 AM
Mike Francesca said today on his show he still owns the mare and 75% of POTN.
While Zayat will profit off the race, he’s already sold American Pharoah’s breeding rights. Thanks to what he called dumb luck, he does, however, still own 75 percent of American Pharoah’s father, Pioneerof the Nile, which might turn out to be more profitable.
I've heard differently, which isn't a surprise as there are at least a dozen rumors regarding each of the three horses. I feel confident that he sold the mare based on who told me this, but I guess we'll find out in coming months when she or her offspring are sold.
Each year, during Belmont Week, for a day, maybe two, Francesca's show is staged at the track. Listeners, quite likely, feel he knows a great deal about this sport's inner workings. He doesn't. (Steve Byk does.) This isn't football, basketball, or baseball. I don't care how large his annual salary is, he should not include matters of which he knows little, such as breeding and ownership of mares and racehorses.
It's not a matter of who told what to whom. The story of Jane and Frank Lyon's Summer Wind Farm breeding operation and their purchase of American Pharoah's dam, Littleprincessemma was written and released days before the Belmont. It was a great story, one worth sharing here.
https://www.thoroughbredracing.com/articles/established-breeders-dare-dream-connection-triple-crown-royalty
From the story:
“We feel so fortunate,” Lyon said, reflecting on acquiring the now 9-year-old Littleprincessemma and her in utero foal for $2.1 million at the Fasig-Tipton November sale. A daughter of Yankee Gentleman, the mare was consigned by Taylor Made Sales Agency on behalf of Ahmed Zayat’s Zayat Stables, which bred and races American Pharoah.
“When we bought Littleprincessemma, American Pharoah was injured and had just been withdrawn from the Breeders’ Cup,” Lyon said, noting that she could not have predicted what the colt, later voted champion juvenile male for 2014, would achieve this year. But it was clear that he had made his young dam a significant producer.
castaway01
06-10-2015, 09:10 AM
Each year, during Belmont Week, for a day, maybe two, Francesca's show is staged at the track. Listeners, quite likely, feel he knows a great deal about this sport's inner workings. He doesn't. (Steve Byk does.) This isn't football, basketball, or baseball. I don't care how large his annual salary is, he should not include matters of which he knows little, such as breeding and ownership of mares and racehorses.
It's not a matter of who told what to whom. The story of Jane and Frank Lyon's Summer Wind Farm breeding operation and their purchase of American Pharoah's dam, Littleprincessemma was written and released days before the Belmont. It was a great story, one worth sharing here.
https://www.thoroughbredracing.com/articles/established-breeders-dare-dream-connection-triple-crown-royalty
From the story:
However insufferable Francesa can be, he is a long-time horse owner who runs at NYRA tracks. I imagine that after decades in the game he knows a few people there and has some connections. It's not as if he's a Sportscenter host pretending to know which end of a horse is which.
andtheyreoff
06-10-2015, 09:35 AM
Would Bayern and Dortmund be a coupled entry in the Classic?
Nope. There haven't been coupled entries in the Breeders' Cup since 1998.
If Better Talk Now and his rabbit, Shake the Bank, were not a coupled entry in the 2005 Turf, Bayern and Dortmund sure wouldn't be.
pandy
06-10-2015, 09:40 AM
Is Moreno still active? Imagine Moreno, Bayern, Dortmund, Private Zone, A. Pharoah, all in the same race? Think the pace would be quick? Then throw in some nice sustained types like Shared Belief, Tonalist, Frosted, Firing Line....
Grits
06-10-2015, 10:17 AM
However insufferable Francesa can be, he is a long-time horse owner who runs at NYRA tracks. I imagine that after decades in the game he knows a few people there and has some connections. It's not as if he's a Sportscenter host pretending to know which end of a horse is which.
I understand and I respect his sports knowledge, but, obviously, he didn't know these people, the owners of Littleprincessemma and the fact that she resides on a large farm in Kentucky. In this case, he isn't off limits as far as the need to be correct.
Fager Fan
06-10-2015, 10:46 AM
Each year, during Belmont Week, for a day, maybe two, Francesca's show is staged at the track. Listeners, quite likely, feel he knows a great deal about this sport's inner workings. He doesn't. (Steve Byk does.) This isn't football, basketball, or baseball. I don't care how large his annual salary is, he should not include matters of which he knows little, such as breeding and ownership of mares and racehorses.
It's not a matter of who told what to whom. The story of Jane and Frank Lyon's Summer Wind Farm breeding operation and their purchase of American Pharoah's dam, Littleprincessemma was written and released days before the Belmont. It was a great story, one worth sharing here.
https://www.thoroughbredracing.com/articles/established-breeders-dare-dream-connection-triple-crown-royalty
From the story:
I feel like slapping myself in the forehead. With all the varying assumptions out there regarding whether Zayat still owned the mare, it didn't even occur to me that it was out there for the world to see in the auction record.
DeltaLover
06-10-2015, 10:56 AM
Is Moreno still active? Imagine Moreno, Bayern, Dortmund, Private Zone, A. Pharoah, all in the same race? Think the pace would be quick? Then throw in some nice sustained types like Shared Belief, Tonalist, Frosted, Firing Line....
None of these horses are remotely close to AP..
Fager Fan
06-10-2015, 11:28 AM
None of these horses are remotely close to AP..
A couple of them could certainly challenge him on the front. AP would beg for mercy from Private Zone, and Moreno is no slouch on the front end either.
To say that Shared Belief isn't remotely close to AP is laughable. There are others as well, though those likely to be best at 9-10f have been falling by the wayside for one reason or another. I can think of a few that I'm sure Baffert wouldn't be happy to see in the field.
AP's numbers show he's quite beatable if he doesn't improve in late Summer and Fall.
pandy
06-10-2015, 11:50 AM
Shared Belief is definitely a big threat
pandy
06-10-2015, 03:04 PM
A couple of them could certainly challenge him on the front. AP would beg for mercy from Private Zone, and Moreno is no slouch on the front end either.
To say that Shared Belief isn't remotely close to AP is laughable. There are others as well, though those likely to be best at 9-10f have been falling by the wayside for one reason or another. I can think of a few that I'm sure Baffert wouldn't be happy to see in the field.
AP's numbers show he's quite beatable if he doesn't improve in late Summer and Fall.
How soon some people forget, huh? Shared Belief has 10 wins in 12 career starts, 5 of which are GR1 wins. He hurt himself in his last start but his other loss was the messed up BC Classic where he was badly impeded.
whodoyoulike
06-10-2015, 03:16 PM
Is Moreno still active? Imagine Moreno, Bayern, Dortmund, Private Zone, A. Pharoah, all in the same race? Think the pace would be quick? Then throw in some nice sustained types like Shared Belief, Tonalist, Frosted, Firing Line....
His last race was the Californian at SA on 5/30/15 unless he was hurt. Btw, I like your line up.
Do you think some track(s) can pull it off?
They should consider cutting the payouts to the top 4 horses if they do get them.
Redbullsnation
06-11-2015, 02:36 AM
Haskell
Travers
PA Derby
BC
pandy
06-11-2015, 06:51 AM
His last race was the Californian at SA on 5/30/15 unless he was hurt. Btw, I like your line up.
Do you think some track(s) can pull it off?
They should consider cutting the payouts to the top 4 horses if they do get them.
Breeders Cup Classic is at Keeneland and I think it could be a great race this year. And since it's at Keeneland it should make the race better. What Santa Anita has done to the Breeders Cup is embarrassing, between the speed biased days (three in a row) and then the non dq of Bayern last year, which fortunately the horse of the year voters over turned.
pandy
06-11-2015, 06:58 AM
Haskell
Travers
PA Derby
BC
I hope you're right about this, that's the schedule I'd love to see.
Redboard
06-16-2015, 01:57 PM
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/horse_racing/20150616_Pa__Derby_could_be_right_fit_for_Triple_C rown_winner_American_Pharoah.html
Dick Jeradi writes about AP possibly running in the PA derby. Apparently, Baffert and the Zayat would get 200k each, just for showing up.
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