Mike Beer and Andy Serling are both trying to beat American Pharoah

[DeltaLover]

I am surprised to see that both of Belmont public handicappers are going against American Pharoah!

Andy Serling :7: :8: :5: :1:

Mike Beer :6: :8: :5: :7:

Food for thought !!

[cj]

They are actually bettors. No real bettor is taking 3 to 5 :)

[EMD4ME]

They are actually bettors. No real bettor is taking 3 to 5 :)


Delta, I have never ever seen you believe in a chalk. For you to believe in a chalk, amazes me. Especially one as vulnerable as this one.

In my heart, I know this horse will LOSE. It won't even be dramatic. I hope JV takes it to AP and sets it up for a 678 showdown down the lane.

Off the board AP!!!!!!! The TC will be won soon but not by an average or good horse (AP) but by an amazing horse (2016 or beyond).

[BlueChip@DRF]

I am surprised to see that both of Belmont public handicappers are going against American Pharoah!

Andy Serling :7: :8: :5: :1:

Mike Beer :6: :8: :5: :7:

Food for thought !!

Beer has been doing well today.

[DeltaLover]

Now WHAT ????

[EMD4ME]

Now WHAT ????

Congratulations Delta. I eat crow.

[horses4courses]

Now WHAT ????

Enjoy :cool:

[Kash$]

Add beyer

[cj]

Now WHAT ????

I didn't say he wouldn't win, but did you bet him at 7 to 10? I know I didn't. Pretty sure I said about 50% chance he wins.

I'm not knocking at all, just don't get your point, particularly in bold giant font.

[DeltaLover]

I didn't say he wouldn't win, but did you bet him at 7 to 10? I know I didn't. Pretty sure I said about 50% chance he wins.

I'm not knocking at all, just don't get your point, particularly in bold giant font.

No, of course I did not bet this year's Belmont (at least with some serious money)..

I am not looking for this kind of races to bet. Even the exacta, which I had narrowed down did not offer much of a value!

Besides the bettability of the race though, I was surprised to realize, that so many of us, were trying to defeat the obvious, looking for extreme scenarios that could had allowed for a major upset..

It is fanny that top public handicappers, like Beyer and Serling were picking against AP, despite the convincing evidence that he is the best horse of his generation and also has the potential to become the best horse of the last several decades.. After all he had beaten all of his rivals by several lengths each one in several different races!

As a horse racing fanatic, I certainly did not like the selections of the two Belmont's handicappers, who projected the wrong image to the wide public and the casual fans who are always looking for the next racing hero.

When a public handicapper, contradicts the obvious choice, which also happens to be the reason for today's racing pandaisia, I not only blame him for bad handicapping but I am also questioning his motifs.

Are they try to be too smart in the wrong place?

I am not the type of a handicapper who stays in the obvious, finding himself consistently aligned with the public.

Quite the opposite.

My money is usually in the nose of some kind of an obscure pick, that seems to contradict several classical handicapping doctrines and some times I happen to be correct, something that usually results to a significant score.. I think this is one of the best ways to approach the game and I have been doing it during all of my life and I will probably continue to do so forever. Still, there are cases, like today's Belmont, where I simply cannot go against the obvious especially when every handicapping angle I can think about, indicates that the favourite is going to win the race.

Today, we have watched the new super star of racing, who also has the potential to reach even higher levels of achievements (assuming that he will not be retired soon), duplicating the success of his stable mate Bayern in the BCC last year.. As a degen horse bettor, I will stay tuned, root enthusiastically for AP and not trying to discover reasons to beat him, I have enough favorites to go against in my day to day routine, what is really needed is the NEXT SUPER STAR OF RACING NAMED AMERICAN PHAROAH

[depalma113]

No, of course I did not bet this year's Belmont (at least with some serious money).

Why not? It was free money. The horse should have been 1-9 or lower.

[tanner12oz]

Why not? It was free money. The horse should have been 1-9 or lower.

lol 1-9

[thaskalos]

Why not? It was free money. The horse should have been 1-9 or lower.

Irrational exuberance...

[cj]

Mike Beer had a day most handicappers only dream about, yet is getting ripped for going against a 3 to 5 favorite that happened to win. Tough game.

Was Untapable a lock too at 3-5? How about Stanford at 2-5? He beat both of those today and had a few more long priced winners.

[Speed Figure]

I have MUCH RESPECT for Mike Beer! so what he didn't pick a 3-5 shot! so easy to say things when you get to hide behind your keyboard and DON'T post your picks for all to see... :ThmbDown:

[depalma113]

Irrational exuberance...

Nothing irrational about being 100% right in everything I've said about the horse since day one.

He towered over his competition. Sorry for you that you didn't see it.

Maybe next time.

[thaskalos]

Nothing irrational about being 100% right in everything I've said about the horse since day one.

I would have believed you...but you said the exact same things last year...

[DeltaLover]

I would have believed you...but you said the exact same things last year...

Hey Thask, isn't this a little to early in the morning for you? What happened? Did you lose your sleep?? :D :D

[depalma113]

I would have believed you...but you said the exact same things last year...

I don't believe I said the only thing missing from California Chrome was wings. I do know I said it about American Pharoah.

I said both were singles in the Derby. They were.

I said both would win the Preakness the did.

I said both would win the Belmont.

I was wrong about one race.

Doesn't change a thing about my belief in either one.

[thaskalos]

Hey Thask, isn't this a little to early in the morning for you? What happened? Did you lose your sleep?? :D :D
From now on, I will be getting up early on Sundays...and going to church. After watching the Belmont...I started believing in miracles.

[Rex Phinney]

What's wrong with taking a shot against the favorite and still accepting the outcome? The gambler in all of us should have been taking a small shot against him yesterday, after all the strategy paid 12 times before.

I bet against him, not much but I did, He was the first favorite to win all day. So the strategy had paid well.

So I lost a few bucks on the race, not enough to be worried about, and I still enjoyed seeing the history.

[rastajenk]

Me too. I played some small tri part wheels with AP keyed in the second slot, and in the third; then with some leftover voucher money did some dimes with him in the fourth position. I felt like the only way I could lose everything and feel bad about it would be if he pulled a Big Brown, or just ran out of gas too soon and got passed by everything, which I could not foresee at all. Well worth the $35 or so I put into it.

[pandy]

How can anyone be surprised that Andy Serling and Mike Beer picked against AP? Mike Beer is a longshot player, and a very good one. And Andy also tries to go against the chalk more often than not, and is very good at it.

But, if AP had won the Derby easier I think you would have seen almost everyone on his band wagon for the Belmont. The all out 1 length win in the Derby created some doubt.

On the Today show this morning, Matt Lauer asked Baffert why everyone wasn't picking AP for the Belmont? Baffert said that the horse hadn't had that huge race that people were looking for, and he admitted that even though he was winning most of his races easily, he did not win the Derby impressively and didn't seem to be his best that day.

But looking back over these races, was AP really not his best in the Derby, or are Dortmund and/or Firing Line really good horses? Firing Line's Preakness is a toss.

If all of these horses stay healthy and race in the BC classic, it could be a heck of a race. Imagine the older horses like Tonalist in there with American Pharoah, Dortmund, Firing Line, Frosted....

[aaron]

The one thing I have learned in racing is that if you are sure a horse is going to win and the horse is a short price,either find a way to make money with him or pass the race. It makes absolutely no sense to bet against your opinion and rip up tickets. I am sure there are people who thought AP should have been 1-5. If you felt that way,there is no way you should have bet against him.

[pandy]

I agree. I personally thought he was an underlay, which proved to be wrong, but yes, you don't want to bet against horses that you think are locks. Fortunately, there are very few favorites that fall into that category.

On Saturday at Belmont, in 13 races, only two favorites won and heavy odds on favorites Untappable, Stanford, Competitive Edge all lost. American Pharoah was the only odds on favorite that actually won.

That's why these guys don't pick the chalk that often.

As a public handicapper, no one cares if you pick the favorite and it wins, but when you pick the longshot winners that no one else has, that's how you get recognition. And that's why these guys have their jobs. Same with Brad Thomas at Monmouth. Who wants to listen to someone who always picks the obvious favorite?

[Rex Phinney]

The one thing I have learned in racing is that if you are sure a horse is going to win and the horse is a short price,either find a way to make money with him or pass the race. It makes absolutely no sense to bet against your opinion and rip up tickets. I am sure there are people who thought AP should have been 1-5. If you felt that way,there is no way you should have bet against him.

The horse had won the derby by a length and then won a race in a hurricane, and was up against 12 furlongs.

I know it's the cool thing to say Monday morning that everyone here thought he should be freaking 1/9, but the truth is there were plenty of reasons to BET against him. Let's not get carried away bandwagoning and tar and feather anyone who bet against the horse. I wagered I think $50 on the race, thinking I'd either get paid or see history, cool deal either way.

[ubercapper]

I can't see why a public handicapper can't say he's the most probable and also say he's not playable and who they are betting. Here's what I did on my sheets.

#5 American Pharoah - Minimum odds 4/5

#2 Tale of Verve - Minimum odds 7/1

#6 Frosted - Minimum odds 7/1

#8 Materiality - Minimum odds 9/1

#3 Madefromlucky - Minimum odds 9/1

It's unfortunate, maybe a technology issues, that the graphics for Andy and Mike (as well as others on TV) can't display minimum odds so that fans can get a better sense of probability and help determine both the best (most probable) horse and the best bet, which can indeed be quite different things.

[PaceAdvantage]

I can't see why a public handicapper can't say he's the most probable and also say he's not playable and who they are betting. Yup...that's what I did...happy to lose in this instance...I considered it a hedge bet... :lol:

[Stillriledup]

They didnt Try to beat AP they tried to beat a heavy favorite in a seldom run distance, who wasnt training over the track and was ridden by a non belmont jock. No need to take this stuff personally. You bet on bets, not horses.

The best horseplayers dont get emotionally attached and polarized.

[aaron]

The horse had won the derby by a length and then won a race in a hurricane, and was up against 12 furlongs.

I know it's the cool thing to say Monday morning that everyone here thought he should be freaking 1/9, but the truth is there were plenty of reasons to BET against him. Let's not get carried away bandwagoning and tar and feather anyone who bet against the horse. I wagered I think $50 on the race, thinking I'd either get paid or see history, cool deal either way.
I am not against anyone betting against him. I simply am saying if you thought he could not lose,then you shouldn't have been betting against him.

[DeltaLover]

I do not have a problem, when a public handicapper is going against a 2-5 shot. Not when it is a frozen Thursday afternoon at Aqueduct's inner track, with a messed up by the mad bomber tote board .. I contrary, I think that in this case, he is doing a good job, pointing the crowds to the right directions.

I have a completely different opinion though, when we are in the first Saturday of June having the potential of experiencing racing history!

The fact that the whole nation has turned its attention to Belmont. means that all the public figures of the sport, need to be very careful and even conservative in what they are doing and saying!

Ignoring the new super star of racing, anticipating his defeat because of this and that reason, it simply does not send out the best message..

I do not mind about the actual handicapping opinion (which was completely wrong and even arrogant as it was proven by the facts) but about the message that was send to the casual horse racing fan, who was cheering for his hero..

When you are trying to bring in new fans to the game, you do not try to impress your peers and regulars with your creative handicapping and ability to discover hidden value. Instead you praise the new super, promoting his heroic image to the wide public, hoping for the next triple crown winner and giving out an ABC 101 handicapping opinion and you are simply rooting for the him.

[Stillriledup]

DL
Youre saying that analysts should be disingenuous to current customers so they can coddle people who come once a year, if that? This is one of the biggest problems racing has and that is ignoring current customers. Youre suggesting analysts lie to current customers so that the potential new customer wont get the wrong idea?

[DeltaLover]

DL
Youre suggesting analysts lie to current customers so that the potential new customer wont get the wrong idea?

If you want to put it in this way, then I do not think I suggested them to lie but just to make a better handicapping job, than going against the obvious and failing so miserably

[PaceAdvantage]

DL
Youre saying that analysts should be disingenuous to current customers so they can coddle people who come once a year, if that? This is one of the biggest problems racing has and that is ignoring current customers. Youre suggesting analysts lie to current customers so that the potential new customer wont get the wrong idea?Good point.

But you're a little off on your last sentence. Potential new customers WILL GET THE WRONG IDEA given what Delta wanted to see happen.

[thaskalos]

If you want to put it in this way, then I do not think I suggested them to lie but just to make a better handicapping job, than going against the obvious and failing so miserably
I disagree with your premise here, Delta. To suggest that a handicapping opinion which proves to be wrong, even on a marquee race such as this, is indicative of a "mediocre handicapping job" which needs to be improved to suit the adoring masses of the superstar horse, is terribly unfair to the public handicapper IMO. Do the rest of us handicappers look at this race differently, or compromise our handicapping principles, just because history is in the making? Of course not...and neither should Serling. If the adoring novices in the stands need a cheerleader for their new idol...all they have to do is look at the tote board.

[Stillriledup]

Good point.

But you're a little off on your last sentence. Potential new customers WILL GET THE WRONG IDEA given what Delta wanted to see happen.

Wow. You realize you typed "good point" right? :D

I think im going to frame this post for posteriority!

[DeltaLover]

I disagree with your premise here, Delta. To suggest that a handicapping opinion which proves to be wrong, even on a marquee race such as this, is indicative of a "mediocre handicapping job" which needs to be improved to suit the adoring masses of the superstar horse, is terribly unfair to the public handicapper IMO. Do the rest of us handicappers look at this race differently, or compromise our handicapping principles, just because history is in the making? Of course not...and neither should Serling. If the adoring novices in the stands need a cheerleader for their new idol...all they have to do is look at the tote board.

I certainly am less inclined to discard a favourite in a race that will determine the next super star of horse racing than an obscure claiming race where the class dropping horse is attracting the crowd's attention becoming the 2-5 chalk. The reason of course, has to do with the transparency of the existing information, the quality of the related connections and the huge interest they are having in winning the specific race.

[thaskalos]

I certainly am less inclined to discard a favourite in a race that will determine the next super star of horse racing than an obscure claiming race where the class dropping horse is attracting the crowd's attention becoming the 2-5 chalk. The reason of course, has to do with the transparency of the existing information, the quality of the related connections and the huge interest they are having in winning the specific race.
And yet...those short-priced, highly-publicized superstars continue to disappoint on a regular basis.

[Tom]

Mike correctly passed by a 2-5 and 3-5(?) shot earlier in the card to cash on better value horses.

The name of the game is winning. Should he had passed all three races, or bet all three heavy favorites? Or filled his pockets with good handicapping rewards?

[Tom]

And yet...those short-priced, highly-publicized superstars continue to disappoint on a regular basis.
You only need to a beat a couple of them to make money. You hit a hell of a lot of them tom make less money.

[Rex Phinney]

I do not have a problem, when a public handicapper is going against a 2-5 shot. Not when it is a frozen Thursday afternoon at Aqueduct's inner track, with a messed up by the mad bomber tote board .. I contrary, I think that in this case, he is doing a good job, pointing the crowds to the right directions.

I have a completely different opinion though, when we are in the first Saturday of June having the potential of experiencing racing history!

The fact that the whole nation has turned its attention to Belmont. means that all the public figures of the sport, need to be very careful and even conservative in what they are doing and saying!

Ignoring the new super star of racing, anticipating his defeat because of this and that reason, it simply does not send out the best message..

I do not mind about the actual handicapping opinion (which was completely wrong and even arrogant as it was proven by the facts) but about the message that was send to the casual horse racing fan, who was cheering for his hero..

When you are trying to bring in new fans to the game, you do not try to impress your peers and regulars with your creative handicapping and ability to discover hidden value. Instead you praise the new super, promoting his heroic image to the wide public, hoping for the next triple crown winner and giving out an ABC 101 handicapping opinion and you are simply rooting for the him.

This is easily one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read. They are arrogant for saying that a horse would fail for the 13th time in a row? Think about that for a minute.

The "casual fan" got their fill of hype if they were watching NBC, all 6 on air personalities picked AP to win, Jerry Bailey was practically standing on the tables taking his clothes off crazy over the horse. Those same fans would have lost a sh!t ton of money Saturday if they played the bleeding heart bet and played Tonalist, Bayern, Untapable etc.

You are forgetting that when they made their picks he wasn't the next super horse yet, another one was trying the same thing 12 months ago.

They are handicappers not cheerleaders, shame on you for not realizing the difference.

So as it is he won and we can all rejoice and enjoy the greatness, I don't think anyone here was putting the pink slip to their car behind Frosted or Materiality, so what does it matter.

[classhandicapper]

I think a reasonable compromise is for public handicappers to tell customers who they think the most likely winner is and to also give some guidance as to who they think might be the best value given the probable odds.

That way, you list American Pharoah first or say he's the most likely winner and then make the case for why you think it's smarter to bet against him given the odds.

I gave American Pharoah a 50%-55% chance of winning, but I played Mubtaahij to win/place and under AP because I expected him to run better (possibly much better) which put him right in the thick of it against Frosted and Materiality at longer odds. So if AP blew out at the distance, he could win and if not he might still fill out the exacta.

IMO, he did run better, but not by enough. I believe he didn't change leads again. I need to watch the replay again. Had he changed leads he almost certainly gets 3rd and maybe even 2nd. 1 1/2 miles is a long way to go on the same lead.

[burnsy]

You only need to a beat a couple of them to make money. You hit a hell of a lot of them tom make less money.

Said the man that wisely knows how to actually make money playing horses. The two public handicappers are wisely trying to make ROI and know the true chances, they don't pick one race a year. People that want to be placated or told they are right......should stick to Fox News and MSNBC. According to some, thinking for ones self is a problem.............its not if you want to win in horse racing, one of the reasons I like it. Telling people in this country what they "want to hear" is what makes a sucker, a sucker..........."look honey the two gambling experts picked AP." "Gee, that's so obvious it can't be wrong."............. :lol: In what universe does life work this way? But people believe it..........keep gambling..... :lol: That right there is why most people can not do well at gambling.

[DeltaLover]

They are handicappers not cheerleaders, shame on you for not realizing the difference.


In this case they did a very pool job..

Note:
Please keep the shame for yourself..

[porchy44]

I agree. I personally thought he was an underlay, which proved to be wrong, .....

Why are you wrong ? A horse can still win and you can be still right about the horse being an underlay.

[thaskalos]

Why are you wrong ? A horse can still win and you can be still right about the horse being an underlay.

I agree. We should be more forgiving of ourselves when our opinions of individual races don't quite pan out. The long run is what counts.

[whodoyoulike]

... Who wants to listen to someone who always picks the obvious favorite?

As long as the obvious favorite wins, I wouldn't mind.

[whodoyoulike]

I am not against anyone betting against him. I simply am saying if you thought he could not lose,then you shouldn't have been betting against him.

I agree with you on this and if he is not worth the risk then pass.

[depalma113]

I want a horse that turns a guaranteed pick four, into a guaranteed pick three.

In the last two years of the Triple Crown, 5 out of 6 times it has paid off.

To me that is value.

[lamboguy]

as it turns out, most of the professional handicapper's under rated the chances of AMERICAN PHAROAH mainly because there were plenty of fresh horses in the race and that is what has been winning Belmont stakes lately. no doubt its been tough to keep the weight on horses through that grueling campaign. a trainer could not have asked for anything more from a horse than the way AMERICAN PHAROAH trained and acted throughout the whole triple crown campaign.

even more amazing this time around was that i did not have a knock on any of the other horses training into the race. that is another reason why so many took a chance to beat him. i can't remember a Belmont stake race that was as tough as this one was and the winner just glided through the race.

[OCF]

I bet against AP in all three TC races, have no regrets (other than I didn't enjoy his Belmont stretch run as much as I would have otherwise), will continue to do so in similar situations in the future.

[DeltaLover]

I bet against AP in all three TC races, have no regrets (other than I didn't enjoy his Belmont stretch run as much as I would have otherwise), will continue to do so in similar situations in the future.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with what you are doing.. Having a contrarian opinion about a huge favourite, is one of the fundamental aspects of the game..

As a bettor you are entitled to your opinion and you can always hope for something exceptional to happen, so you can hit a large payoff..

Still, it this is not the same to the way a professional and public handicapper should operate; he should base his selections on logic and relative data and not try for superficial results just to cultivate his fame..

[Robert Fischer]

In the Derby, there were some people who didn't recognize that American Pharaoah was a dominant horse.
After takeout, he still paid $7.80.
That was enough of a deal, for a small player like myself to go ahead and bet all the money that I had in my ADW account to win.

In the Preakness (and Belmont), The Public had reached the point of being able to clearly see that American Pharaoh was a dominant horse.

After takeout, you had no real way of beating Public Opinion. You either had to pass the race, or agree with everyone, bet a lot, and give the track most of the good money via takeout before splitting up the scraps.

The value has to come from somewhere, and when the public is right about a heavy-fav, it doesn't leave a lot of value in the pools.

[lamboguy]

In the Derby, there were some people who didn't recognize that American Pharaoah was a dominant horse.
After takeout, he still paid $7.80.
That was enough of a deal, for a small player like myself to go ahead and bet all the money that I had in my ADW account to win.

In the Preakness (and Belmont), The Public had reached the point of being able to clearly see that American Pharaoh was a dominant horse.

After takeout, you had no real way of beating Public Opinion. You either had to pass the race, or agree with everyone, bet a lot, and give the track most of the good money via takeout before splitting up the scraps.

The value has to come from somewhere, and when the public is right about a heavy-fav, it doesn't leave a lot of value in the pools.nice to see you back

[DeltaLover]

In the Derby, there were some people who didn't recognize that American Pharaoah was a dominant horse.
After takeout, he still paid $7.80.
That was enough of a deal, for a small player like myself to go ahead and bet all the money that I had in my ADW account to win.
[

:ThmbUp:

This is how a horse player should always be thinking

[Robert Fischer]

nice to see you back

Thanks Lambo. At home now.

:ThmbUp:

This is how a horse player should always be thinking

The main point there, is that takeout is hard to overcome, so when you find yourself agreeing with the public it is generally time to pass the race.

Hard to criticize Serling or Beer, as they are public handicappers. It could be argued that "Pass" wasn't an option, and that bet against AP for a huge score was a better public choice than bet on AP for pennies...

[pandy]

If you want to put it in this way, then I do not think I suggested them to lie but just to make a better handicapping job, than going against the obvious and failing so miserably


Delta Lover, this thread and your opinion that the Belmont handicappers should have picked American Pharoah is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. I'm surprised that Pace didn't take it down. Nothing you've said about this makes any sense. Nothing.

I've been in a similar position, making picks as part of the industry. Years ago, for instance, a pacer named Somebeachsomewhere, who won 20 of 21 starts, came into the $1 million dollar Meadowlands pace undefeated with a world record of 1:46.4 and looked unbeatable, to most people. I picked him second behind a horse named Art Official because I thought that Art Official was peaking and the 1-5 favorite may get used harder than he had been. Art Official beat him on the wire and paid $28. I gave this pick out on the website of the USTA, the governing body of harness racing. Should I have lied to the public and picked against the horse I was going to bet simply because it was a great horse? Of course not. The reason why I have the job in the first place is because I can pick horses like that, which is the same reason why Andy and Mike have their jobs.

After the race, sure, we know AP won but many others have lost including a horses named Spectacular Bid, Smarty Jones, and several others that looked unbeatable. As for some weird notion that it looks bad for the industry, or whatever, that simply makes no sense whatsoever.

[DeltaLover]

Delta Lover, this thread and your opinion that the Belmont handicappers should have picked American Pharoah is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. I'm surprised that Pace didn't take it down. Nothing you've said about this makes any sense. Nothing.

I've been in a similar position, making picks as part of the industry. Years ago, for instance, a pacer named Somebeachsomewhere, who won 20 of 21 starts, came into the $1 million dollar Meadowlands pace undefeated with a world record of 1:46.4 and looked unbeatable, to most people. I picked him second behind a horse named Art Official because I thought that Art Official was peaking and the 1-5 favorite may get used harder than he had been. Art Official beat him on the wire and paid $28. I gave this pick out on the website of the USTA, the governing body of harness racing. Should I have lied to the public and picked against the horse I was going to bet simply because it was a great horse? Of course not. The reason why I have the job in the first place is because I can pick horses like that, which is the same reason why Andy and Mike have their jobs.

After the race, sure, we know AP won but many others have lost including a horses named Spectacular Bid, Smarty Jones, and several others that looked unbeatable. As for some weird notion that it looks bad for the industry, or whatever, that simply makes no sense whatsoever.

I think I presented my views as clear as possible. You think that I say not make sense.

Fine, this is your opinion and of course I completely respect your rights to say, express and believe anything you like..

I am also entitled in own opinions and I do not understand your surprise about PA not taking my thread down.

Does this mean that I need to agree with your views, in order to not been taken down?

I also find your statements about having a job because you can find a certain type of horses a little hilarious! By the way, if this is the case and you really believe it, then why you need to have an employer and even more than this, why you need to publish books exposing your handicapping wisdom to the wide public?

[pandy]

I think I presented my views as clear as possible. You think that I say not make sense.

Fine, this is your opinion and of course I completely respect your rights to say, express and believe anything you like..

I am also entitled in own opinions and I do not understand your surprise about PA not taking my thread down.

Does this mean that I need to agree with your views, in order to not been taken down?

I also find your statements about having a job because you can find a certain type of horses a little hilarious! By the way, if this is the case and you really believe it, then why you need to have an employer and even more than this, why you need to publish books exposing your handicapping wisdom to the wide public?


I'm self employed, but believe me, as someone who has been in the business for over 40 years, a prominent company like NYRA wants talent, that's why they always have one of the top announcers in the sport, and that's why they have Andy, he's talented. What you wrote is not only ridiculous, it's insulting.

Almost every freelance handicapping job I've had, including TV, print, radio, etc., they called me. You know why? Because I've picked a lot of longshot winners. Anyone can pick the favorite.

Sometimes when an opinion is so ridiculous, yes, it should be erased.

[DeltaLover]

I'm self employed, but believe me, as someone who has been in the business for over 40 years, a prominent company like NYRA wants talent, that's why they always have one of the top announcers in the sport, and that's why they have Andy, he's talented. What you wrote is not only ridiculous, it's insulting.

Almost every freelance handicapping job I've had, including TV, print, radio, etc., they called me. You know why? Because I've picked a lot of longshot winners. Anyone can pick the favorite.

Sometimes when an opinion is so ridiculous, yes, it should be erased.

Since I almost never follow public handicappers and their picks, I have to admit that I do not have enough input to doubt the abilities of Andy. More than this, at no point I have had the intention of insulting anyone, in contrary, I am always very careful to avoid this kind of a behaviour.

Based in you professional relation with the industry, your views seem to be biased and subjective; most likely, this should be the reason why, instead of using logic and facts who seem to be rather emotional and prejudiced!

As far as erasing my post, I was never a fan of censorship, a procedure that you appear to be fond of.

[Valuist]

Now WHAT ????

Win without a perfect trip. Beat an older horse. A great accomplishment, but rather workman like.

[pandy]

Why are you wrong ? A horse can still win and you can be still right about the horse being an underlay.

I agree, but what I meant is I was wrong about the race. I picked Frosted to win and American Pharoah second. I'm not afraid to admit when I didn't pick it correctly.

[pandy]

Since I almost never follow public handicappers and their picks, I have to admit that I do not have enough input to doubt the abilities of Andy. More than this, at no point I have had the intention of insulting anyone, in contrary, I am always very careful to avoid this kind of a behaviour.

Based in you professional relation with the industry, your views seem to be biased and subjective; most likely, this should be the reason why, instead of using logic and facts who seem to be rather emotional and prejudiced!

As far as erasing my post, I was never a fan of censorship, a procedure that you appear to be fond of.

Well, at least you admit that you were part wrong. The thing that really pissed me off was when you said that they failed miserably in their picks because they didn't pick AP. After the race, of course. This is completely absurd. Favorites got killed Saturday and 3 odds on favorites lost. Great horses that looked like stone cold locks have lost the Belmont several times. A favorite hadn't won the Belmont in over 10 years.

To point to a heavy favorite after it wins and say you did a lousy handicapping job if you didn't pick it is not only ridiculous, it's arrogant. Let's see you post your picks and see how well you do.

[PaceAdvantage]

Win without a perfect trip. Beat an older horse. A great accomplishment, but rather workman like.Look up the definition of workmanlike.

Last Saturday's performance doesn't fit that definition...not even close.