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View Full Version : Del Mar changes P-6 to lure players


AndyC
05-22-2015, 01:34 PM
According to the San Diego Union this morning, Del Mar has decided to change the P-6 in an attempt to "lure players back" to the once highly popular bet. The bet will now be a jackpot bet with 80% of the net pool going to the daily P-6 winners and 20% of the net pool going to the jackpot pool. There will no longer be consolation payoffs for tickets with 5 out of 6. There was no mention of the required minimum bet size.

In making the change according to the article, Del Mar consulted with several players who were supportive of the change.

As a lifelong P-6 player my first question is "Which players are Del Mar trying to lure back?" Idiots who love putting their money into an effective 39% takeout rate pool? Or maybe Lotto players who dream of that impossible life changing score?

I will cease all participation in the DM P-6. Eliminating consolation payoffs cuts off the lifeblood of many P-6 players. I can't imagine many real players will make the DM P-6 a part of their regular play. Apparently the DM management has decided that since real players have moved play away from the P-6 in recent years that soaking the casual or uninformed players out of their money with a jackpot bet is a better way to run a racetrack. If they wanted to put some life back into the P-6 a change to the 14% takeout rate of the P-5 would have done the trick.

cj
05-22-2015, 01:39 PM
Wow, just sad. As if pools aren't small enough, tracks are finding ways to hold more money hostage so they get smaller. I don't understand why anyone would play these pools. Sure, a few people hit it big, but people win the lottery too.

cj
05-22-2015, 01:54 PM
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2015/may/21/del-mar-pick-six-betting/

aaron
05-22-2015, 02:13 PM
No consolation 5 of 6. Do they really think that will encourage more people to bet into the pool with a $2.00 minimum ?

thaskalos
05-22-2015, 02:22 PM
It would surprise me if the implemented change made any sense. :ThmbDown:

AndyC
05-22-2015, 02:25 PM
No consolation 5 of 6. Do they really think that will encourage more people to bet into the pool with a $2.00 minimum ?

Which people should be encouraged to bet this type of bet? Would a $.10 or $.20 minimum change the bet to be a good bet and accordingly attract more money?

Some people have claimed that these jackpot bets are good plays because the vast amount of dumb money makes for ample overlays. To those people I would ask, "How does one know where the dumb money will be bet?" Which horses should be avoided to make this a playable bet?

DJofSD
05-22-2015, 02:37 PM
Decades ago, the race tracks in CA feared the new state lotto.

Now I guess it comes down to if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

Stillriledup
05-22-2015, 05:31 PM
They just saw a tiny harness track in Pompano Beach, Fl handle over a million bucks on a 4k claimer jackpot bet.

its about Greed. Their theory is that whatever money they might lose during the meet will be made up on closing day with a bazillion dollar mandatory payout, its possible they can get 5 to 10 million dollars in "found money" on closing day. And, if somehow the carryover is 2 million heading into closing day, they could get 15 million in the pool and "force" the entire betting world to watch their closing Wednesday afternoon Program.

Pensacola Pete
05-22-2015, 05:47 PM
I'd like it if they kept 5 out of 6 on days it paid 6 of 6.

Stillriledup
05-22-2015, 05:50 PM
I'd like it if they kept 5 out of 6 on days it paid 6 of 6.

They should pay a conso on the pick 5s, no reason to not go that route, a lot more people would bet the pick 5 if they knew they would get a little something back if they had 4 winners.

DeltaLover
05-22-2015, 10:48 PM
According to the San Diego Union this morning, Del Mar has decided to change the P-6 in an attempt to "lure players back" to the once highly popular bet. The bet will now be a jackpot bet with 80% of the net pool going to the daily P-6 winners and 20% of the net pool going to the jackpot pool. There will no longer be consolation payoffs for tickets with 5 out of 6. There was no mention of the required minimum bet size.

In making the change according to the article, Del Mar consulted with several players who were supportive of the change.

As a lifelong P-6 player my first question is "Which players are Del Mar trying to lure back?" Idiots who love putting their money into an effective 39% takeout rate pool? Or maybe Lotto players who dream of that impossible life changing score?

I will cease all participation in the DM P-6. Eliminating consolation payoffs cuts off the lifeblood of many P-6 players. I can't imagine many real players will make the DM P-6 a part of their regular play. Apparently the DM management has decided that since real players have moved play away from the P-6 in recent years that soaking the casual or uninformed players out of their money with a jackpot bet is a better way to run a racetrack. If they wanted to put some life back into the P-6 a change to the 14% takeout rate of the P-5 would have done the trick.


:ThmbDown: :ThmbDown: :ThmbDown:

Completely ridiculous bet..

I am really curious to see who are those players that were consulted about this idiotic bet!

I really do not understand what is the big deal with the P6 and why it should regain its publicity!

My feeling is that those who are making the decision of what kind of bets to promote, know absolutely nothing about gambling and horse betting and also believe that all horse bettors are complete degenerates, ready to be milked by any kind of stupid betting proposition they are going to be offered...

Stillriledup
05-22-2015, 10:56 PM
I read this again and it seems like this is not a conventional jackpot bet, most of the money goes to pick 6 winners and only a smaller amount goes to the carryover.

Essentially they're taking the monies they would have given out as consos and sticking it in the carryover.

I don't know about this, its a "partial" Jackpot bet which means there's really not much incentive for a bettor to "gamble" on longer priced combos because there's not much bump in price, most times you're just going to donate your conso money to this carryover. Players are going to handicap and bet this wager just to 'hit it' many won't do anything different because the real payout is going to be pretty big anyway.

Fingal
05-23-2015, 01:05 AM
Even if I played the lottery I would have a chance of a consolation payoff. That's what causes people to bet again, aka resulting in the precious word CHURN. Say someone puts a $100 into a ticket & they get 5 of 6. They know they'll make a bit or at worst get their initial bet back so they can try again the next day.

Former co-worker used to play the lottery constantly & he'll tell about hitting a scratcher for say 30-70 bucks & plow that money back into buying more tickets. Here if someone bets $100 a day into that pool & doesn't hit at least all 6 winners after awhile they'll walk away from the P6.

As one in our racing circle put it, what Del Mar is really concerned about is their party atmosphere & how many $16 margaritas they can sell.

Poindexter
05-23-2015, 03:42 AM
Say what you want about the pick six, it give even small players a chance at some real money. Go back about 4 or 5 weeks, I played a $96 pick six ticket, I was 4 for 4, I singled a horse named Rose White and Blue and was 4 deep in the last leg. Rose White and Blue I figured would benefit from a speed duel between the 2 favorites, only the speed duel never materialized and the 2nd favorite ran off at 2-1. I hit the last leg(2-1 first timer) and ended up with 1 consolation. It was around $600 odd dollars. Pick six paid $140,000 or so, I figure I would have been looking at a payoff at least double that if not more if Rose White and Blue would have won. Fast forward a couple of weeks, played a $32 pick 6 singling 1/9 Warren's Veneda in a 4 horse field. What kills me is that I knew the winner was lone speed used him in pick 3's and pick 4's......but I just threw in my pick 6 ticket at the last minute(I had already elected not to play it because I thought it was too tough), cutting here and cutting there. Got back over $700. The pick six that day payed over $60,000. I was looking at maybe 1/4 of that if I can get home a 1/9 shot, for $32. This is not about tooting my horn, trust me there are plenty of times I put $500 into a pick 6 and end up 3 of 6 or worse, the results just happened to go my way on a number of races those days.

The point is that as upset as I am for letting 2 opportunites to score slip away, it was nice to get some kind of reward for the 5. Not paying for 5's is a huge blow to small player especially on a day with a lot of price horses. Removing that aspect of the bet will backfire and a lot of palyers will just opt for an easier pick 5 or pick 4. Bad idea. Shoot, you can just parlay the two pick 3's and get back more money than the pick six will ever pay now unless you happen to be the lone ticket with six winners which is near impossible on a small budget.

Regarding the Jackpot portion on a $2 pick six, it is a bit interesting, but it unfortunately is too advantageous to bigger players. I think they already pull out about 23% from the pool and now they will pull out an additional 20% to go into a jackpot pool. So it sounds like 43% will be pulled out of the pool and 57% will be returned to the sixes unless there is 1 single winner in which case the entire jackpot is added. That is enticing, because unlike with a 20 cent pick 6, there are opportunities to be the lone ticket with 6 winners(especially at Del Mar). But opportunity for who. As a big player you can single a couple of horses in the 3 or 4-1 range that you really like and go say 7x7x7x7 in the other 4 legs for in the $4000+ range(now if you get home your 2 singles a couple of nice longshots(sort of like Gulfstream had today) and a couple more midsize horses and that jackpot might be yours. . Obviously it is only a worthwhile play if you are the only ticket with six winners and staring at a large jackpot and they will come, but I believe that to be the only ticket with six, will take a serious bankroll, You are not going to do it on a $96 ticket unless you are taking a complete stab and are off the charts lucky. Will it be successful, I have no idea, but is it good for the everyday small player, absolutley not. I am sure there are a couple of heavy hitters out there licking their chops right now (this could be a very good bet in some situations for a betting syndicate).


I echo the sentiments of everyone who has posted prior. Very bad idea.

Speed Figure
05-23-2015, 03:57 AM
All they had to do is copy Gulfstream park! the way they do it is far better than this BS! why would I now play a $2 pick 6 with no 5 of 6 payout when I can play a .50 cent pick 5 with 1 less race and it's 75% cheaper with a lower takeout!

Poindexter
05-23-2015, 04:21 AM
Quick correction on my post, I skipped the part about 20% being taken from a pool that has already had 22-23% taken out so, Andy is correct about the takeout being around 39% unless you hit the jackpot not the 43% I erroneously posted.

Stillriledup
05-23-2015, 05:59 AM
Say what you want about the pick six, it give even small players a chance at some real money. Go back about 4 or 5 weeks, I played a $96 pick six ticket, I was 4 for 4, I singled a horse named Rose White and Blue and was 4 deep in the last leg. Rose White and Blue I figured would benefit from a speed duel between the 2 favorites, only the speed duel never materialized and the 2nd favorite ran off at 2-1. I hit the last leg(2-1 first timer) and ended up with 1 consolation. It was around $600 odd dollars. Pick six paid $140,000 or so, I figure I would have been looking at a payoff at least double that if not more if Rose White and Blue would have won. Fast forward a couple of weeks, played a $32 pick 6 singling 1/9 Warren's Veneda in a 4 horse field. What kills me is that I knew the winner was lone speed used him in pick 3's and pick 4's......but I just threw in my pick 6 ticket at the last minute(I had already elected not to play it because I thought it was too tough), cutting here and cutting there. Got back over $700. The pick six that day payed over $60,000. I was looking at maybe 1/4 of that if I can get home a 1/9 shot, for $32. This is not about tooting my horn, trust me there are plenty of times I put $500 into a pick 6 and end up 3 of 6 or worse, the results just happened to go my way on a number of races those days.

The point is that as upset as I am for letting 2 opportunites to score slip away, it was nice to get some kind of reward for the 5. Not paying for 5's is a huge blow to small player especially on a day with a lot of price horses. Removing that aspect of the bet will backfire and a lot of players will just opt for an easier pick 5 or pick 4. Bad idea. Shoot, you can just parlay the two pick 3's and get back more money than the pick six will ever pay now unless you happen to be the lone ticket with six winners which is near impossible on a small budget.

Regarding the Jackpot portion on a $2 pick six, it is a bit interesting, but it unfortunately is too advantageous to bigger players. I think they already pull out about 23% from the pool and now they will pull out an additional 20% to go into a jackpot pool. So it sounds like 43% will be pulled out of the pool and 57% will be returned to the sixes unless there is 1 single winner in which case the entire jackpot is added. That is enticing, because unlike with a 20 cent pick 6, there are opportunities to be the lone ticket with 6 winners(especially at Del Mar). But opportunity for who. As a big player you can single a couple of horses in the 3 or 4-1 range that you really like and go say 7x7x7x7 in the other 4 legs for in the $4000+ range(now if you get home your 2 singles a couple of nice longshots(sort of like Gulfstream had today) and a couple more midsize horses and that jackpot might be yours. . Obviously it is only a worthwhile play if you are the only ticket with six winners and staring at a large jackpot and they will come, but I believe that to be the only ticket with six, will take a serious bankroll, You are not going to do it on a $96 ticket unless you are taking a complete stab and are off the charts lucky. Will it be successful, I have no idea, but is it good for the everyday small player, absolutely not. I am sure there are a couple of heavy hitters out there licking their chops right now (this could be a very good bet in some situations for a betting syndicate).


I echo the sentiments of everyone who has posted prior. Very bad idea.

Good writeup, sorry about the pick 6 beats you had.

It seems to me that they just take your conso and stick it into the carryover, i don't know why a bettor would be willing to have his money that he would have otherwise won on a normal pick 6 going to fund a carryover that might get paid out on the last day of the meet. People who love carryovers love them because other people funded the bet, not them. If a bettor plays this pick 6, whether they like it or not, THEY are funding the carryover. If you are a person who bets normal pick 6s only when there's a carryover, you lose that option and only get to probably play one pick 6 for the entire del mar meet.

The smartest player in the room is one who only bets when there's a carryover, at any normal Del Mar meet, there are anywhere from 5 to 10 carryovers, now they're likely to only be one, which is closing day.

Poindexter
05-23-2015, 07:18 AM
Good writeup, sorry about the pick 6 beats you had.

It seems to me that they just take your conso and stick it into the carryover, i don't know why a bettor would be willing to have his money that he would have otherwise won on a normal pick 6 going to fund a carryover that might get paid out on the last day of the meet. People who love carryovers love them because other people funded the bet, not them. If a bettor plays this pick 6, whether they like it or not, THEY are funding the carryover. If you are a person who bets normal pick 6s only when there's a carryover, you lose that option and only get to probably play one pick 6 for the entire del mar meet.

The smartest player in the room is one who only bets when there's a carryover, at any normal Del Mar meet, there are anywhere from 5 to 10 carryovers, now they're likely to only be one, which is closing day.

I assume that this has no bearing on the carryovers. If nobody hits six I assume after the takeout 80% of the pool is carried over and 20% would be added to the jackpot pool. Somebody can correct me if I am wrong, but that seems to me the way it will be handled. The question is does a $100,000 carryover mean the same when you as a player know that 20% of the current days remaining pool will be removed unless you are the lone ticket with 6 winner(I think not-but how the public reacts remains to be seen). Also, I think the assumption Del Mar is making is that with carryovers, the 20 % added to the jackpot pool will make the jackpot pool grow really quickly. But remember this is a $2 pick six not a 20 cent one. As competive as the racing can be at Del Mar, there will be multiple days that only one person hits the pick 6, not just closing day.

I think what they are trying to do makes sense, but the way they are trying to do it, does not. I think leaving the current pick six model in tact, but removing 5% of the pool and adding it to the jackpot pool(basically reducing their take but rather than paying out more they just take 17.x % for takeout and 5 % for the jackpot pool and then reducing the payouts on 5's from 30% to 25% and also adding that to the jackpot pool would enable them to grow a significant jackpot bonus (albeit not as hefty) without completely killing the payoffs for 5 out of six(so instead of getting $600 for a 5 you get $500-beats the heck out of getting zilch). Of course that would also require a 5% takeout sacrifice and we know how anxious the industry is to reduce their takeout 5% even if it will make the product much better and payoff in better handles.

JohnGalt1
05-23-2015, 07:39 AM
All they had to do is copy Gulfstream park! the way they do it is far better than this BS! why would I now play a $2 pick 6 with no 5 of 6 payout when I can play a .50 cent pick 5 with 1 less race and it's 75% cheaper with a lower takeout!


In comparing SUCKER jackpot bets to each other is like deciding whether you'd rather have your hand amputated or your foot.

I choose neither.

As I wrote about my home track Canterbury is adding a new SUCKER bet, a jackpot pick 5.

Will the madness never end???????

thaskalos
05-23-2015, 01:05 PM
Good writeup, sorry about the pick 6 beats you had.

It seems to me that they just take your conso and stick it into the carryover, i don't know why a bettor would be willing to have his money that he would have otherwise won on a normal pick 6 going to fund a carryover that might get paid out on the last day of the meet. People who love carryovers love them because other people funded the bet, not them. If a bettor plays this pick 6, whether they like it or not, THEY are funding the carryover. If you are a person who bets normal pick 6s only when there's a carryover, you lose that option and only get to probably play one pick 6 for the entire del mar meet.

The smartest player in the room is one who only bets when there's a carryover, at any normal Del Mar meet, there are anywhere from 5 to 10 carryovers, now they're likely to only be one, which is closing day.

Here is Andy Beyer, in a seminar with Gulfstream Park's track handicapper...as Andy offers picks and various opinions on a day's card at Gulfstream. Fast forward to the 15:35 mark of the video for Beyer's Rainbow-6 betting strategy, and watch the reaction on the track handicapper's face. Classic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0woTTMGFsZs

DJofSD
05-23-2015, 01:09 PM
Here is Andy Beyer, in a seminar with Gulfstream Park's track handicapper...as Andy offers picks and various opinions on a day's card at Gulfstream. Fast forward to the 15:35 mark of the video for Beyer's Rainbow-6 betting strategy, and watch the reaction on the track handicapper's face. Classic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0woTTMGFsZs
"Plague on horse racing." Excellent.

Thanks, thask!

AndyC
05-23-2015, 01:14 PM
Also, I think the assumption Del Mar is making is that with carryovers, the 20 % added to the jackpot pool will make the jackpot pool grow really quickly. But remember this is a $2 pick six not a 20 cent one. As competive as the racing can be at Del Mar, there will be multiple days that only one person hits the pick 6, not just closing day....

By comparison, Gulfstream puts 40% of the net pool into the jackpot but maybe Del Mar is assuming that P-6 play will stay at or higher than historic rates thus building the jackpot quickly.

Over the past years Del Mar has had many days where one lone ticket sweeps the pool. Del Mar does offer some competitive fields, probably on the level of Gulfstream. It is the $2 base bet that allows for more single ticket winners. The jackpot and the $2 base give a big player a huge edge with this bet. While a small player was on even ground on a risk-reward basis with the old P-6 that ground has totally been changed.

FrankieFigs
05-23-2015, 02:18 PM
Here is Andy Beyer, in a seminar with Gulfstream Park's track handicapper...as Andy offers picks and various opinions on a day's card at Gulfstream. Fast forward to the 15:35 mark of the video for Beyer's Rainbow-6 betting strategy, and watch the reaction on the track handicapper's face. Classic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0woTTMGFsZs

I had not seen that before. I'm getting looks from my workmates while I'm laughing like crazy..... :lol:

Stillriledup
05-23-2015, 02:57 PM
Here is Andy Beyer, in a seminar with Gulfstream Park's track handicapper...as Andy offers picks and various opinions on a day's card at Gulfstream. Fast forward to the 15:35 mark of the video for Beyer's Rainbow-6 betting strategy, and watch the reaction on the track handicapper's face. Classic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0woTTMGFsZs

That's the greatest thing i've ever seen. I can't stop laughing. :lol:

Andy Beyer is incredible, as much as i liked him before watching this video, i like him much more now. Awesome.

GMB@BP
05-24-2015, 12:09 AM
That's the greatest thing i've ever seen. I can't stop laughing. :lol:

Andy Beyer is incredible, as much as i liked him before watching this video, i like him much more now. Awesome.

Oh this was good, about died laughing

JohnGalt1
05-24-2015, 09:07 AM
Here is Andy Beyer, in a seminar with Gulfstream Park's track handicapper...as Andy offers picks and various opinions on a day's card at Gulfstream. Fast forward to the 15:35 mark of the video for Beyer's Rainbow-6 betting strategy, and watch the reaction on the track handicapper's face. Classic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0woTTMGFsZs


Thanks for the link. I wish all tracks with or are considering jackpot bets would see this.

You're right about Nicoletti's reaction, but suckers will still play it.

With Gulfstream continually updating the pool totals reminds me of craps dealers touting the hard ways and any craps high percentage bets for the house. You notice Gulfstream doesn't tout win bets or craps dealers touting odds bets as often.

Tall One
05-24-2015, 11:35 AM
I had not seen that before. I'm getting looks from my workmates while I'm laughing like crazy..... :lol:


Probably similar to the looks Andy was getting from the GP handicapper.. :D

And he's 100% correct. I don't play these types of gimmicks much/at all, but I did invest a whopping $24 in the Pompano High 5 other night. $1.2 million poole you have to take a shot there. (1st,2nd,3rd, 4th...6th :faint: )

Thanks for posting that, Thask. Good reminder for us all.

luisbe
05-24-2015, 10:50 PM
It's curious this issue came up when I was thinking to myself a few days ago about a pick six paying out 50% to 6, 30% to 5 and 20% to 4; no carryover; 60% to 5 and 40% to 4 in case nobody picks 6 and becoming a pick 4 not having bettors with 5.

FlintAtTheFetlock
05-25-2015, 02:31 PM
No consolation 5 of 6. Do they really think that will encourage more people to bet into the pool with a $2.00 minimum ?

I am of mixed minds on this. I had 5 or 6 recently to remind me how I much I love staying involved even after an early loss. My limited experience with 5 of 6 payouts were very good including a tax ticket. On the flip side I hit the Gulfstream Rainbow P6 this spring, not the jackpot, but I got a huge payout on 20 cents. With Del Mar sticking to $2 this might get interesting.

My suggestion (if they are bent on change) is for Delmar to do the jackpot Mon-Sat and on Sunday do full payout including 5 of 6. I think that would keep everyone engaged. Just rambling aloud here, but the pools will be healthy even early in the week and non jackpot payouts would be great, and the jackpot a monster. I'll be playing whatever happens as I have become enamored with this multi race horizontal wager.

Poindexter
05-25-2015, 03:50 PM
I am of mixed minds on this. I had 5 or 6 recently to remind me how I much I love staying involved even after an early loss. My limited experience with 5 of 6 payouts were very good including a tax ticket. On the flip side I hit the Gulfstream Rainbow P6 this spring, not the jackpot, but I got a huge payout on 20 cents. With Del Mar sticking to $2 this might get interesting.

My suggestion (if they are bent on change) is for Delmar to do the jackpot Mon-Sat and on Sunday do full payout including 5 of 6. I think that would keep everyone engaged. Just rambling aloud here, but the pools will be healthy even early in the week and non jackpot payouts would be great, and the jackpot a monster. I'll be playing whatever happens as I have become enamored with this multi race horizontal wager.

The problem with the jackpot pick six in a $2.00 pool is there will be much less dumb money. Anybody with a pulse can play something like single, single, single, 8x8x8 for $100 or so at Gulfstream. Single 3 midprice horses you like, throw in some hopeless longshots and hope to get lucky. For a $100 bucks you take a shot, for a $1000, you better be really rich. You just will only have a tiny fraction of the money wasted on bad longshots that gave you the value on your pick six. That excessive take will not be nullified as it is at Gulfstream. The only value this jackpot pool offers is that if you have a chance of being the only ticket with six(and that is extremely rare for a small player making a pick six play off of handicapping).

This is just a case of a racetrack wanting to trick people into thinking they are providing the player something exciting when the truth is they really are offering a very high takeout pool, and a bet that will be extremely advantageous to large bettors when the jackpot gets really big. They will be able to justify it, if this is adapted, because there will be people that win the jackpot, and some will be small players and some even handicappers. It just has to be that special day when everything goes somebody's way.

Regarding your idea, they will not implement that, because they want to be able to promote that you can win a million dollars if you are the only ticket with six winners and they will never get there if they keep paying out the jackpot(defeats the purpose).

The sad part is this might even work. Traditional pick six players will hate it and probably abandon the pick six until the mandatory payout, but the public might even take to it, especially if they can get the local news to push it. Some local San Diego resident wins a million bucks, there story gets profiled on the local news, a lot of free advertising.

AndyC
05-25-2015, 03:56 PM
I am of mixed minds on this. I had 5 or 6 recently to remind me how I much I love staying involved even after an early loss. My limited experience with 5 of 6 payouts were very good including a tax ticket. On the flip side I hit the Gulfstream Rainbow P6 this spring, not the jackpot, but I got a huge payout on 20 cents. With Del Mar sticking to $2 this might get interesting.

My suggestion (if they are bent on change) is for Delmar to do the jackpot Mon-Sat and on Sunday do full payout including 5 of 6. I think that would keep everyone engaged. Just rambling aloud here, but the pools will be healthy even early in the week and non jackpot payouts would be great, and the jackpot a monster. I'll be playing whatever happens as I have become enamored with this multi race horizontal wager.

The big reason for not playing is simple. Del Mar has decided to move a payout that greatly helped the smaller player (5 out of 6 payoffs) to a Jackpot bet that is grossly advantageous to the very large player.

I think Del Mar greatly underestimates the psychological effect of losing the 1rst race and having no chance to cash a ticket. At least with consolation payoffs you're still in the game until the second and sometimes the third strike.

ultracapper
05-25-2015, 04:16 PM
I love Del Mar more than any other track I've ever played, and a big reason is the competitive fields. Those competitive fields lead to many P6 carryovers, which really helped all the other pools. The beauty of P6 carryovers, at least in SoCal, is that the additional money that goes into them doesn't seem to come from the other pools, as a matter of fact, there seems to be a residual increase in the other pools on carryover days, and it's noticeable at Del Mar. I don't touch P6s with 20 foot poles, but I love days at Delmar when they have a carryover. The other pools swell also to some degree. I can't believe the powers that be would tinker with this unless they felt this new format would do the same to WPS and other pools, but to a larger degree. It seems incredibly foolish to me, looking at it at this time.

JohnGalt1
05-25-2015, 08:04 PM
It's curious this issue came up when I was thinking to myself a few days ago about a pick six paying out 50% to 6, 30% to 5 and 20% to 4; no carryover; 60% to 5 and 40% to 4 in case nobody picks 6 and becoming a pick 4 not having bettors with 5.

Over 10 years ago Bay Meadow and Golden Gate paid two levels on their pick six.

6 of 6 and 5 of 6.

If no one hit 6, they would pay 5/6 and 4/6. if one had 5 of six they would also be paid for all the 4 of six's.

I even collected 3 of 6 a few times when no one hit 5 and they would pay 4 of 6. Of course the pay outs were around $3.00 for each horse hit if only getting 3 of 6.

Needless to say, my close misses either paid for my ticket or almost did.

Back then I preferred dealing with Baze/Hollendorfer and playing their pick 6's than southern Cal.

classhandicapper
05-31-2015, 10:16 AM
The big reason for not playing is simple. Del Mar has decided to move a payout that greatly helped the smaller player (5 out of 6 payoffs) to a Jackpot bet that is grossly advantageous to the very large player.



That's pretty much sums it up. The good news is that if enough people stop making the bet, it will impact the handle negatively and they'll be forced to change it back or tweak it further.

DJofSD
06-04-2015, 10:23 PM
Just saw a tweet saying the powers that be have changed they're mind about the changes to the P6.

AndyC
06-05-2015, 10:25 AM
Just saw a tweet saying the powers that be have changed they're mind about the changes to the P6.

Sanity prevails!

DJofSD
06-05-2015, 12:07 PM
I'm not finding anything about the status of proposed change to the P6.

However, I did find this (http://www.chrb.ca.gov/Board/committee_meeting_agendas/2015_06_pari_mutuel.pdf) notice for the meeting of the pari-mutuel committee for Thursday, June 11, 2015. I would expect the final decision will be reached at that time especially since it is item #1 on the agenda.

AndyC
06-05-2015, 12:18 PM
I'm not finding anything about the status of proposed change to the P6.

However, I did find this (http://www.chrb.ca.gov/Board/committee_meeting_agendas/2015_06_pari_mutuel.pdf) notice for the meeting of the pari-mutuel committee for Thursday, June 11, 2015. I would expect the final decision will be reached at that time especially since it is item #1 on the agenda.


Who sent the tweet?

DJofSD
06-05-2015, 12:21 PM
It was from HANA: https://twitter.com/HplayersAssnNA

Rutgers
06-05-2015, 12:27 PM
http://live.drf.com/nuggets/16152

Stillriledup
06-05-2015, 12:35 PM
Just saw a tweet saying the powers that be have changed they're mind about the changes to the P6.

Seems like they did what the NFL did w the Brady suspension, float an idea out there and see what reaction you get. Worked like a charm, got regular pick 6 bettors worked up and feeling passionate again about their favorite wager while costing DMR nothing to stoke the fires that are burning inside their most loyal customers. Well done Del Mar!

AndyC
06-05-2015, 01:12 PM
Seems like they did what the NFL did w the Brady suspension, float an idea out there and see what reaction you get. Worked like a charm, got regular pick 6 bettors worked up and feeling passionate again about their favorite wager while costing DMR nothing to stoke the fires that are burning inside their most loyal customers. Well done Del Mar!

I doubt that the idea was just floated out there. The fact is that Del Mar and all California tracks have seen the handle drop in the once king of all exotic bets. Witnessing the media success of the Rainbow P-6 and other jackpot bets, I believe that Del Mar felt (and still feels) a need to inject a little energy back into the wager. But turning the only possible positive expectation bet at the track into the worst possible expectation bet was not well thought out.