American Pharoah breeding rights sold

[luisbe]

The breeding rights to Triple Crown hopeful American Pharoah were sold Tuesday to an undisclosed stallion farm. Terms of the deal were not available.
Justin Zayat, racing director for American Pharoah owner Zayat Stables, had said Monday that despite offers of more than $20 million for the horse's rights as a stallion, the family likely would not entertain offers until after the Belmont on June 6.
But Ahmed Zayat told ESPN.com that the offer that was put on the table Tuesday was too good to pass up. Zayat said he will own 100 percent of the horse's racing rights and that American Pharoah will not retire immediately after the Belmont, even if he becomes the first horse since 1978 to win the Triple Crown.
The whole story: http://espn.go.com/horseracing/story/_/id/12916711/american-pharoah-breeding-rights-sold-undisclosed-farm

[taxicab]

Fascinating stuff.
I wonder which outfit made "Z Man" an offer he couldn't refuse ?
I might rule out Japan because perhaps they would want the horse ASAP.
Of course that's nothing more than a guess.

[Some_One]

I'll go with Coolmore as my bet

[depalma113]

Winstar

[Rex Phinney]

Winstar


Aren't they the ones with Pioneer of the Nile? If so I'll agree with you.

[boys at tosconova]

"Zayat said he will own 100 percent of the horse's racing rights and that American Pharoah will not retire immediately after the Belmont, even if he becomes the first horse since 1978 to win the Triple Crown."

how the hell did the new owners agree to this. obv stipulations that we don't know about

[Robert Goren]

I believe despite what they say, if he wins the Belmont, his racing days are over. Way too much risk, way too little reward. I have also think that the buyer has to foreign. The price has to be prohibitive for an American buyer. I am think at least $35 million. Could be as much as $50 million.

[thespaah]

And the winner is Ashford Stud.
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/92088/american-pharoah-to-stand-at-ashford-stud

[PaceAdvantage]

"Zayat said he will own 100 percent of the horse's racing rights and that American Pharoah will not retire immediately after the Belmont, even if he becomes the first horse since 1978 to win the Triple Crown."

how the hell did the new owners agree to this. obv stipulations that we don't know aboutBecause they aren't the "new owners." They just own the breeding rights.

And perhaps part of the negotiations were that the current actual OWNER gets to decide whether or not to continue racing the horse, should he win the TC.

That's one of the benefits of having a potential TC winner in the hands of a wealthy owner. He doesn't NEED the money...so he doesn't have to relinquish the decision making to the future breeder...he can negotiate from a position of strength...

[Robert Fischer]

When he wins the triple crown, I'm guessing that the stable and owner and breeder will increase the vet examination even above what is required to make the gate. ;)

non-displaced bone chip etc... or whatever they want to say that they feel will not discourage potential breeding clients.

He will be tempting to run in the Breeders Cup Classic, but I'd have to guess they retire him after the triple crown.

The Zayats will still own a share of the horse and of the horse's breeding rights, but that doesn't necessarily mean they will keep leading him to the gate in search of greater glory. Hard to get any higher than a triple crown.

[DeltaLover]

Because they aren't the "new owners." They just own the breeding rights.

And perhaps part of the negotiations were that the current actual OWNER gets to decide whether or not to continue racing the horse, should he win the TC.

That's one of the benefits of having a potential TC winner in the hands of a wealthy owner. He doesn't NEED the money...so he doesn't have to relinquish the decision making to the future breeder...he can negotiate from a position of strength...

I hope you are right and it is as you say it here PA..

It would be terrible news to a see a Triple Crown winner, starting his romantic affairs upon leaving Elmont for first time..

[Parson]

Rumor here in Louisville is 32 million and increases substantially if he wins the Belmont.

[nijinski]

Ashford-Coolmore will keep him on an assembly line schedule .
Might rack up some flyer miles too .

Maybe he'll meet Rags to Riches one day .

[zico20]

I believe despite what they say, if he wins the Belmont, his racing days are over. Way too much risk, way too little reward. I have also think that the buyer has to foreign. The price has to be prohibitive for an American buyer. I am think at least $35 million. Could be as much as $50 million.

Completely agree with you that his racing days are over. A mysterious injury will be "discovered" leading up to the Haskell and that will be it. I guess these breeders didn't learn anything from the Smarty Jones fiasco. He was sold before the Belmont for a huge amount if I remember correctly and we all know how is breeding turned out.

[minethatbird08]

Completely agree with you that his racing days are over. A mysterious injury will be "discovered" leading up to the Haskell and that will be it. I guess these breeders didn't learn anything from the Smarty Jones fiasco. He was sold before the Belmont for a huge amount if I remember correctly and we all know how is breeding turned out.

Fwiw, in regards to American Pharoah is that the Empire Maker-Pioneer of the Nile sire line is looking pretty strong right now; everybody wants to be on the next best thing.

[horses4courses]

It would be terrible news to a see a Triple Crown winner, starting his romantic affairs upon leaving Elmont for first time..

Terrible news for whom?
Not for the horse.........

We all want to see him race.
Even more so after winning the TC.
You have to figure that the BC Classic would be his swan song.

[Some_One]

If by some chance AP wins the Belmont, then really every race he is entered thereafter can only decrease his value.

From a business standpoint much more to be gained off the track. Thinking about Frankel and the decision to run at 4, have those classic distance wins in the Juddmonte and Champion was more beneficial to his stud value then the purse would give.

[DeltaLover]

Terrible news for whom?
Not for the horse.........

For the game of course

[depalma113]

If by some chance AP wins the Belmont, then really every race he is entered thereafter can only decrease his value.

Absolutely not.

Being the only Triple Crown winner, his stud value would not be tarnished if he lost later. The only thing that will tarnish his value is if his offspring don't impress.

[pandy]

The fact that they made this deal now is an indication that they're not that confident about the Belmont. Unfortunately it also means that his career will be over soon so even if he wins the Belmont it won't help the sport much because he'll only run a few more times.

[NY BRED]

then again, Ashford is confident of AP's abilities/chances.

:ThmbUp:

[Robert Fischer]

The fact that they made this deal now is an indication that they're not that confident about the Belmont. ...

You may have a better understanding, or more information, but I'm not able to draw that conclusion.

As far as I can tell, one of the leading breeders reached out and made a good offer, and there are apparently incentives to increase the deal, should he win the Belmont Stakes.

[GatetoWire]

This whole thing was a big PR stunt. The deal with Ashford/Coolmore happened months ago and as a result the $$ quoted is way off. Don't believe everything you read especially if it comes from the Zayadashians.

[Leparoux]

The fact that they made this deal now is an indication that they're not that confident about the Belmont.
This is silly

[Rex Phinney]

Pandy is exactly right I've been thinking the same thing for days.

If you thought you're horse was going to win the Triple Crown you would be out of your damn mind to sell interest BEFORE the race.

If he wins the TC and you put his breeding rights up for auction on June 7th, the offers would absolutely set the world on fire.

You can only short change yourself by doing it now, No matter how big the $$$ is now it would be bigger after he wins the Belmont.

I'll get on board with the thought that the numbers could be inflated or that the deal was actually done long ago. I'll also get on board with the Kardashian comparison. :ThmbUp:

[Robert Fischer]

Pandy is exactly right I've been thinking the same thing for days.

If you thought you're horse was going to win the Triple Crown you would be out of your damn mind to sell interest BEFORE the race.

If he wins the TC and you put his breeding rights up for auction on June 7th, the offers would absolutely set the world on fire.

You can only short change yourself by doing it now, No matter how big the $$$ is now it would be bigger after he wins the Belmont.

I'll get on board with the thought that the numbers could be inflated or that the deal was actually done long ago. I'll also get on board with the Kardashian comparison. :ThmbUp:

i can't see the whole system here, I'd have to guess and make irrational statements.

I do think there is a possibility that perhaps coolmore is a significant operation who could not only offer a market-level deal with appropriate incentives for triple crown victories, but also provide a better ongoing business relationship than a lower-class operation that perhaps could be enticed to bid slightly more in an open auction environment?

It's hard for me to know.

They also happen to have the best horse and the best trainer, there isn't a lot of known rationale for discounting this horse's chances at any 3yo race.

[pandy]

This is silly


I'm not saying that they're stupid. They're smart making this move because they know that the chances of winning the TCrown are not good. But, if this was a horse like Affirmed, Seattle Slew, or Secretariat, they probably would have waited. Don't think for a second that Bob Baffert and Zayat don't look at speed figures, individual splits, etc. These guys use numbers to help them figure out where to place horses. I'm sure Jerry Brown (Thoroughgraph) has many owners and trainers who buy his numbers. They know that AP is not running that fast and it makes sense to take the money now in case he's exposed later.

[Rex Phinney]

Meh, Zayat probably needs the $$$ to pay a bookie, settle a lawsuit or square with a bank somewhere. So we are probably just reading too much into it.

[pandy]

Meh, Zayat probably needs the $$$ to pay a bookie, settle a lawsuit or square with a bank somewhere. So we are probably just reading too much into it.


It's hard to fault this type of business strategy. It's the old adage, A bird in hand is better than two in the bush.

[Relwob Owner]

Meh, Zayat probably needs the $$$ to pay a bookie, settle a lawsuit or square with a bank somewhere. So we are probably just reading too much into it.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Relwob Owner]

Absolutely not.

Being the only Triple Crown winner, his stud value would not be tarnished if he lost later. The only thing that will tarnish his value is if his offspring don't impress.

Have to disagree. He wins the Triple Crown and then races 3 or 4 times the rest of the year and doesn't win and that won't tarnish his value? How can it not tarnish his value compared with winning the TC and then not running again?

[Rex Phinney]

Have to disagree. He wins the Triple Crown and then races 3 or 4 times the rest of the year and doesn't win and that won't tarnish his value? How can it not tarnish his value compared with winning the TC and then not running again?

Agreed. If he wins Belmont he is done, period.

If it was Coburn and Martin or ole Jess Jackson we were talking about maybe it would be different. But with the breeding rights being sold already, Justin Zayat saying no offers would be accepted (a day before an offer was accepted) what about this owner would make anyone think anything different?

AP Dam is already sold
More of Pioneer of the Nile was sold during AP run.
What in the world would make people think Zayat has plans on doing anything EXCEPT cashing ASAP? He has done everything to show he wants the breeding $$$ ASAP and nothing to show he would promote extending the horses career.

The writing is on the wall, anyone who thinks this colt keeps going after Belmont is just not reading it.

[bobphilo]

I'm not saying that they're stupid. They're smart making this move because they know that the chances of winning the TCrown are not good. But, if this was a horse like Affirmed, Seattle Slew, or Secretariat, they probably would have waited. Don't think for a second that Bob Baffert and Zayat don't look at speed figures, individual splits, etc. These guys use numbers to help them figure out where to place horses. I'm sure Jerry Brown (Thoroughgraph) has many owners and trainers who buy his numbers. They know that AP is not running that fast and it makes sense to take the money now in case he's exposed later.

Wrong. Jerry Brown gave AP one of the best figures than any horse has ever earned in the Derby.

[Robert Fischer]

I'm not saying that they're stupid. They're smart making this move because they know that the chances of winning the TCrown are not good. But, if this was a horse like Affirmed, Seattle Slew, or Secretariat, they probably would have waited. Don't think for a second that Bob Baffert and Zayat don't look at speed figures, individual splits, etc. These guys use numbers to help them figure out where to place horses. I'm sure Jerry Brown (Thoroughgraph) has many owners and trainers who buy his numbers. They know that AP is not running that fast and it makes sense to take the money now in case he's exposed later.

They don't care about Secretariat.

They've got a horse that's as good as Bernardini, Curlin and Big Brown. They've got a solid pedigree, they've got a Derby winner, and they've got what most estimate between 25% and 60% of winning the Belmont, thus giving them the Triple Crown and all of it's spoils.

None of that other stuff is relevant. Nobody is scared of 'being exposed'.
Everybody thinks this is super-star.
Even on the wild theory that they thought this was some 'mediocre' horse who kept getting super lucky winning all these races while being heavily favored, and he ran mid-pack in the Belmont, - they'd simply retire him if that was the case. He'd have instant demand.
There's literally no chance that he could be exposed at this point.

[Robert Fischer]

Absolutely not.

Being the only Triple Crown winner, his stud value would not be tarnished if he lost later. The only thing that will tarnish his value is if his offspring don't impress.

He'd have to enter an allowance race that allowed for the weight of the huge insurance premiums to be on his back.

It would be fun for the Zayats to show off their star and sweep the preps and the Breeders Cup Classic, but logic says the horse is basically a certainty of being retired.