View Full Version : Hawthorne 2015 Spring Meet
JohnGalt1
05-17-2015, 10:04 AM
I used to like betting Hawthorne.
I know Illinois racing is having issues with purse value declines and fewer horses, but I have always done well at mid to upper mid-level tracks.
In the past I play 8-12 cards every Spring.
This Spring I played once after finding out they have made most exotic bets twenty cent minimums. More than 60% of my bets are win bets, but I don't like the effect lower minimums have on pay outs.
Low minimums have been discussed often here how it affects pay outs. You'd think it would be a wash since betters who add horses with little chance to place are ADDING money to the pools, but the facts contradict this. Frank Angst wrote how the $.50 minimum pick threes and trifectas lower payoffs by an average of 8% per dollar wagered. And example is a dollar tri that pays $100, playing for $.50 pays $46.
The twenty cent minimums make this even worse per dollar. And handle must suffer since a $1 minimum 3 horse per race pick 3 that costs $27 can now cost $5.40
Finally they have joined the jackpot SUCKER bet crowd with their pick 6.
One example why I hate jackpot bets is Gulfstream's final pay out day where the pool was $7 million dollars. With a $40 and $27 dollar horse in the sequence, the pay out was only $14k. I've got to believe that a traditional $2 pick six with a $50k pool would pay more than $14k with those two winners, and a better who misses one race still collects a 5 of 6 consolation.
I know there are other reasons than lower bet minimums and sucker jackpot bets for them being down 11% in wagering.
I emailed someone in Hawthorne's office stating this opinion, how often I've bet with them and my average daily handle.
I'm TOTALLY shocked I never received a reply.
lamboguy
05-17-2015, 10:15 AM
years ago the gimmick to get people to go to the track early was the daily double. everyone bet it.
the tracks were all charging admission to get in the door except after the 7th race they let people in for free and there was a big line to get in the place waiting for the 7th race to get done.
the final day for the rainbow at Gulfstream was a joke again. the 2 guys that i knew that were going to get the money took down about half the jackpot. those guys never bet a race at Gulfstream the whole meet except for that gimmick.
how can that ever be good for the health of this game?
illinoisbred
05-17-2015, 10:23 AM
I hear you. Pretty much everything Hawthorne has tried in an effort to salvage the winter/spring meet has not worked. There are alot of problems..short fields..the new uncoupled entry rule..and the rock bottom minimum wagers on exotic bets to name a few. Listening to some locals would have you believe $5.00 double payouts,$10-12 pick threes,and $20 something pick fours are the new value at Hawthorne. I don't buy it,and no longer play them. The winter/spring meet will be lucky to survive without some serious change, but I'd contact them again via e-mail...and keep doing so until you get a response. Hawthorne usually does respond to most inquiries.
JohnGalt1
05-17-2015, 07:39 PM
I hear you. Pretty much everything Hawthorne has tried in an effort to salvage the winter/spring meet has not worked. There are alot of problems..short fields..the new uncoupled entry rule..and the rock bottom minimum wagers on exotic bets to name a few. Listening to some locals would have you believe $5.00 double payouts,$10-12 pick threes,and $20 something pick fours are the new value at Hawthorne. I don't buy it,and no longer play them. The winter/spring meet will be lucky to survive without some serious change, but I'd contact them again via e-mail...and keep doing so until you get a response. Hawthorne usually does respond to most inquiries.
I feel for you. I went through the Ladbroke ownership of Canterbury disaster, when purses were cut constantly. They even tried to push live racing by eliminating simulcast betting while live races were run :bang: So simulcast betters stayed home, and this was before ADW's.
Then the track closed. It cost $80 million to build. Ladbroke sold it for $4 million. A year+ later Curtis Sampson bought it for $8 million, then went public selling 50% of the stock for $8 million dollars. Then they eventually got permission to put in a card club. Then the mystic deal happened.
It's a 10 year deal. I hope they renew.
ReplayRandall
05-17-2015, 09:21 PM
I emailed someone in Hawthorne's office stating this opinion, how often I've bet with them and my average daily handle.
I'm TOTALLY shocked I never received a reply.
If you send an e-mail with your concerns to Hawthorne, send it to John Walsh. I guarantee you will get a response.....jwalsh@hawthorneracecourse.com
Valuist
05-18-2015, 04:13 PM
I hear you. Pretty much everything Hawthorne has tried in an effort to salvage the winter/spring meet has not worked. There are alot of problems..short fields..the new uncoupled entry rule..and the rock bottom minimum wagers on exotic bets to name a few. Listening to some locals would have you believe $5.00 double payouts,$10-12 pick threes,and $20 something pick fours are the new value at Hawthorne. I don't buy it,and no longer play them. The winter/spring meet will be lucky to survive without some serious change, but I'd contact them again via e-mail...and keep doing so until you get a response. Hawthorne usually does respond to most inquiries.
Ever since Sportsman's closed up shop, racing in Illinois is a complete afterthought until Arlington opens. And while some of AP is unbettable, at least the grass racing is good.
Part of the problem is Oaklawn now starting in early to mid January. They used to open up about a week into Feb, and only a few barns from Chicago would go, but now quite a few go. The top barns were going to go to GP or FG anyways, but now there's just not many horses on the grounds for the entire spring meet.
The rise of Indiana has really hurt the fall Hawthorne meet, which used to be my favorite betting meet of the whole year. Used to like it better than Sar, Kee or GP. It was loaded with 11 and 12 horse fields. Plenty of track biases, and lots of grass racing. Too bad those days of full fields are gone.
JohnGalt1
05-18-2015, 08:05 PM
If you send an e-mail with your concerns to Hawthorne, send it to John Walsh. I guarantee you will get a response.....jwalsh@hawthorneracecourse.com
I emailed to John Denny, the director of mutuels hoping it would be sent to the person who takes care of player relations or betting.
My email was similar to my first post.
Thanks for your suggestion to write to John Walsh.
How often does any track admit mistakes and return to "normal"?
tanner12oz
05-18-2015, 09:24 PM
The low minimums are the new normal I hate it. I think the only track with $1 pick 4's is Los al. Meadowlands and mtr dropped to .50 last year
I hate it but oh well I just hope it doesn't keep dropping
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