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View Full Version : Sticker Shock at Saratoga


Waquoit
05-12-2015, 09:26 PM
I'm the only horseplayer among two couples that have been taking a trip to the Saratoga area for years, spending Saturday at the track. The total cost this year for 4 Grandstand seats on Whitney Day: $142.55. What a ripoff. I think this is the last year our group goes to the track.

Let's Roll
05-12-2015, 09:42 PM
Price seems a bit high...Have fun this year and enjoy yourself doing something else in 2016 !

Stillriledup
05-12-2015, 09:44 PM
You know what? Normally i would agree that its a ripoff, but if people are willing to shell out a buck 42 and that's the current market value of those seats, i can't blame Stga for charging that price if people are willing to pay it.

gheuks
05-12-2015, 09:49 PM
$5 admission, $8 racing form, and $14 or $15 for a clubhouse seat X2 for the wife and I equals almost $60 each day. Its steep... but it is Saratoga, which makes it easier to bear.

badcompany
05-12-2015, 10:47 PM
$5 admission, $8 racing form, and $14 or $15 for a clubhouse seat X2 for the wife and I equals almost $60 each day. Its steep... but it is Saratoga, which makes it easier to bear.

You left out the $200 a day for the cheap motel room that was $75 the week before the meet started. :(

gheuks
05-12-2015, 10:49 PM
U are absolutely right! I stay within walking distance so it's more like 250-300!!!😖

Stillriledup
05-12-2015, 11:24 PM
You left out the $200 a day for the cheap motel room that was $75 the week before the meet started. :(

And people just pay it, that's why they charge it. There should be laws against price gauging, there should be some rule that you can't raise a room more than 20 percent from what the average price of the room is all the other days of the year.

Some_One
05-12-2015, 11:43 PM
Don't like it, don't pay. That's free market economics.

proximity
05-12-2015, 11:48 PM
And people just pay it, that's why they charge it. There should be laws against price gauging, there should be some rule that you can't raise a room more than 20 percent from what the average price of the room is all the other days of the year.

now how would you like it if a bunch of hotel owners got together and said there should be a law that odds at sru downs couldn't deviate more than 20% from what the average odds of a horse should be? :eek:

Stillriledup
05-12-2015, 11:59 PM
now how would you like it if a bunch of hotel owners got together and said there should be a law that odds at sru downs couldn't deviate more than 20% from what the average odds of a horse should be? :eek:

Id love it because that would mean people were talking about SRU in the first place! :D

salty
05-13-2015, 12:09 AM
On the plus side you can carry in your own beer. Right there you save a lot of money. Or you could not get seats and just bring your own chairs and sit in the paddock. I'll be there Thurs through Sunday every week. Only shelling out the $5 to get in and maybe endulging in the Mac and cheese truck every once in awhile. Its really not that expensive. I bet you pay for parking too? Lol

lamboguy
05-13-2015, 01:25 AM
going to Saratoga is a top event. if you go to the breeders cup you pay $1300 for a seat in the clubhouse (the frontrunner last year) go to the Kentucky Derby it will cost you $2500 for a seat in the clubhouse. go to the superbowl and you pay $1250 just for the face of the ticket if you are lucky to get one that way, over $4000 if you have to go to second market.

to me Saratoga is better than all these things. they are basically giving away their product yet we will always have people that will complain. they still let you walk through the door where the track has to try to keep clean bathrooms for you, clean up the are with all the garbage that is dropped all over the place each and every day. then they have to run their product with the very best workers in the industry to insure you have a great time. and then they have to pay steep insurance premiums in case you slip on a banana peel and hurt yourself.

at these prices they are giving the place away and still complainers.

Stillriledup
05-13-2015, 04:19 AM
going to Saratoga is a top event. if you go to the breeders cup you pay $1300 for a seat in the clubhouse (the frontrunner last year) go to the Kentucky Derby it will cost you $2500 for a seat in the clubhouse. go to the superbowl and you pay $1250 just for the face of the ticket if you are lucky to get one that way, over $4000 if you have to go to second market.

to me Saratoga is better than all these things. they are basically giving away their product yet we will always have people that will complain. they still let you walk through the door where the track has to try to keep clean bathrooms for you, clean up the are with all the garbage that is dropped all over the place each and every day. then they have to run their product with the very best workers in the industry to insure you have a great time. and then they have to pay steep insurance premiums in case you slip on a banana peel and hurt yourself.

at these prices they are giving the place away and still complainers.

They're charging you for the privilege of giving them a blended 20 cents on a dollar of takeout. They're not giving anything away if you decide to actually bet. Now, if you go there and just watch the beauty of the sport and never make a bet, that's one thing, but if you stick a few hundred or more thru the windows, you're giving them 40, 50 or more dollars for the "privilege".

Its steep no matter how you slice it, only people with money they don't really need can afford this.

JustRalph
05-13-2015, 05:04 AM
going to Saratoga is a top event. if you go to the breeders cup you pay $1300 for a seat in the clubhouse (the frontrunner last year) go to the Kentucky Derby it will cost you $2500 for a seat in the clubhouse. go to the superbowl and you pay $1250 just for the face of the ticket if you are lucky to get one that way, over $4000 if you have to go to second market.

to me Saratoga is better than all these things. they are basically giving away their product yet we will always have people that will complain. they still let you walk through the door where the track has to try to keep clean bathrooms for you, clean up the are with all the garbage that is dropped all over the place each and every day. then they have to run their product with the very best workers in the industry to insure you have a great time. and then they have to pay steep insurance premiums in case you slip on a banana peel and hurt yourself.

at these prices they are giving the place away and still complainers.

NASCAR turned their sport into the same thing about ten years ago. They continually increased the prices, installed corporate suites, disenfranchised a huge part of their regular customer base. It went well for a few years. Attendance started to tumble though. During the recession it fell apart.

They have tracks now where they give away tickets. That was unheard of 15 yrs ago. The tracks are screaming because they are giving away tickets and the grandstands are only half full. The corporate NASCAR is reaping huge profits from the TV deals. They don't share much with the tracks. Those fans that used to attend races every year are now sitting at home watching on TV for free. The TV networks love it. But eventually the track operators will be forced to sell to the the parent company of NASCAR. Which is the ultimate goal. They already own about half the tracks. They don't care if you attend. Just that the ratings stay high for TV.

Horse racing doesn't have huge TV deals to rely on. There is a breaking point. Every price increase you make narrows your customer base. Can horse racing afford to lose any more......apparently so.......

biggestal99
05-13-2015, 06:00 AM
This year the seat price INCLUDES track addmission at Saratoga.

Allan

tanner12oz
05-13-2015, 06:15 AM
This year the seat price INCLUDES track addmission at Saratoga.

Allan

what he said...that represents a roughly 10% increase in ticket price..nothing out of pocket on raceday though. Was smart to go this route. Feel like it was confusing for newbies.

burnsy
05-13-2015, 07:41 AM
Yeah, but if you already have a seasons pass why would you want to pay admission again to get a seat????? Another dumb move, but it is less confusing for people that think a seat also gets you in, like many tourist think. I'm there almost everyday, I go camping a couple times just to "get away". I get a seat like twice a year. Its usually a couple of the Sundays when the girl wants to go with me. I've said this before, say it again. The seats are way over rated. I don't even like them that much. I want to be by the paddock where everything happens and I can see the horses. You can walk on the apron or go upstairs for free when the race actually goes off. I have problems sitting still at the track in the first place. If the price of a seat is bothering you, you are basically wasting your money buying one............Walk in for 5 bucks if you don't have a pass...........that is a "giveaway" for the event you will get. I never understood the fascination with seats at the race track...I get bored sitting there...everything happens outside.

badcompany
05-13-2015, 08:02 AM
Burnsy is spot on about the seats, way overrated. It's not a baseball game.

minethatbird08
05-13-2015, 08:39 AM
Yeah, but if you already have a seasons pass why would you want to pay admission again to get a seat????? Another dumb move, but it is less confusing for people that think a seat also gets you in, like many tourist think. I'm there almost everyday, I go camping a couple times just to "get away". I get a seat like twice a year. Its usually a couple of the Sundays when the girl wants to go with me. I've said this before, say it again. The seats are way over rated. I don't even like them that much. I want to be by the paddock where everything happens and I can see the horses. You can walk on the apron or go upstairs for free when the race actually goes off. I have problems sitting still at the track in the first place. If the price of a seat is bothering you, you are basically wasting your money buying one............Walk in for 5 bucks if you don't have a pass...........that is a "giveaway" for the event you will get. I never understood the fascination with seats at the race track...I get bored sitting there...everything happens outside.

Spot on. My wife and I have been to the Travers weekend 3 times. We got seats the first year and we barely used them. You cannot beat the picnic area atmosphere; walk to the paddock, check out the horses and jockeys, head on over to trackside and get a good view of the race. Go back to your picnic spot and grab a beer and a sandwich from the cooler. For value and experience there is no other sporting event that is even close; it's cheaper than going out to a movie.

Relwob Owner
05-13-2015, 09:37 AM
And people just pay it, that's why they charge it. There should be laws against price gauging, there should be some rule that you can't raise a room more than 20 percent from what the average price of the room is all the other days of the year.


You post the above after the posting the following in post 3 and totally contradict yourself.


You know what? Normally i would agree that its a ripoff, but if people are willing to shell out a buck 42 and that's the current market value of those seats, i can't blame Stga for charging that price if people are willing to pay it.


Further proof that you are only interested in post counts and getting reactions from people

biggestal99
05-13-2015, 10:18 AM
Yeah, but if you already have a seasons pass why would you want to pay admission again to get a seat????? Another dumb move, but it is less confusing for people that think a seat also gets you in, like many tourist think. I'm there almost everyday, I go camping a couple times just to "get away". I get a seat like twice a year. Its usually a couple of the Sundays when the girl wants to go with me. I've said this before, say it again. The seats are way over rated. I don't even like them that much. I want to be by the paddock where everything happens and I can see the horses. You can walk on the apron or go upstairs for free when the race actually goes off. I have problems sitting still at the track in the first place. If the price of a seat is bothering you, you are basically wasting your money buying one............Walk in for 5 bucks if you don't have a pass...........that is a "giveaway" for the event you will get. I never understood the fascination with seats at the race track...I get bored sitting there...everything happens outside.

Well if it was only me or my racetracks buds i would agree but my wife insists on seats.

Allan

Tor Ekman
05-13-2015, 10:47 AM
Saratoga is nice but I think it's become somewhat overrated.

Inner Dirt
05-13-2015, 11:17 AM
NASCAR turned their sport into the same thing about ten years ago. They continually increased the prices, installed corporate suites, disenfranchised a huge part of their regular customer base. It went well for a few years. Attendance started to tumble though. During the recession it fell apart.

They have tracks now where they give away tickets. That was unheard of 15 yrs ago. The tracks are screaming because they are giving away tickets and the grandstands are only half full. The corporate NASCAR is reaping huge profits from the TV deals. They don't share much with the tracks. Those fans that used to attend races every year are now sitting at home watching on TV for free. The TV networks love it. But eventually the track operators will be forced to sell to the the parent company of NASCAR. Which is the ultimate goal. They already own about half the tracks. They don't care if you attend. Just that the ratings stay high for TV.

Horse racing doesn't have huge TV deals to rely on. There is a breaking point. Every price increase you make narrows your customer base. Can horse racing afford to lose any more......apparently so.......

You forgot to add lowering the amount of races to one a day. Used to be the truck race and second tier race (Was Nationwide for years now Infinity series) were on Saturday and the top race on Sunday. Now if there are 3 races they are on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Also when I started religiously going to Nascar in the late 70's in Southern California Riverside would card up to five races along with the main event if you had a 1pm PST start for the main event racing started as early as 9am. Riverside closed in 1988, in 1996 when California Speedway at Fontana opened beers, hot dogs and tickets were 4x higher and you got one race on Sunday, not 6.

onefast99
05-13-2015, 11:29 AM
The Saratoga meet is one of if not the nations only elite meets during this part of the year(July to September). Based on my observations when I attend this meet it is evident people are ok with paying the prices not only for the seats but the concessions as well. As far as the hotels go this is an age old business practice to raise the rates during their busy season, you can get a top hotel in North Miami Beach during spring break for $500 and off season it goes for $129! I am amazed that anyone would question the validity of a hotel to raise their seasonal rates to what the market can bear...

Fager Fan
05-13-2015, 11:38 AM
Pick your battles, guys. This is one reason why handicappers get tuned out. When you complain about everything, then there's good reason to think you can never be satisfied.

In what other sport are the team owners and athletes so available to the public? Try to pet Tom Brady and you'll likely be arrested. $42 for a day of top-notch entertainment? That doesn't sound like a bad deal to me.

Pick your battles wisely. This ain't one of them.

cj
05-13-2015, 11:49 AM
Saratoga is a sporting event in addition to offering wagering. If you are just a bettor, you can do that from anywhere.

elhelmete
05-13-2015, 12:21 PM
In what other sport are the team owners and athletes so available to the public? Try to pet Tom Brady and you'll likely be arrested. $42 for a day of top-notch entertainment? That doesn't sound like a bad deal to me.

Indeed.

JustRalph
05-13-2015, 12:46 PM
You forgot to add lowering the amount of races to one a day. Used to be the truck race and second tier race (Was Nationwide for years now Infinity series) were on Saturday and the top race on Sunday. Now if there are 3 races they are on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Also when I started religiously going to Nascar in the late 70's in Southern California Riverside would card up to five races along with the main event if you had a 1pm PST start for the main event racing started as early as 9am. Riverside closed in 1988, in 1996 when California Speedway at Fontana opened beers, hot dogs and tickets were 4x higher and you got one race on Sunday, not 6.

excellent point. :ThmbUp:

dilanesp
05-13-2015, 01:37 PM
The Saratoga meet is one of if not the nations only elite meets during this part of the year(July to September). Based on my observations when I attend this meet it is evident people are ok with paying the prices not only for the seats but the concessions as well. As far as the hotels go this is an age old business practice to raise the rates during their busy season, you can get a top hotel in North Miami Beach during spring break for $500 and off season it goes for $129! I am amazed that anyone would question the validity of a hotel to raise their seasonal rates to what the market can bear...

Correct. NYRA raised Belmont Stakes prices 15 years ago. Attendance went up.

Cheap gamblers have other options. But certain race cards have become "events" that draw the masses, and the sport needs to maximize revenue.

Stillriledup
05-13-2015, 03:08 PM
You post the above after the posting the following in post 3 and totally contradict yourself.


You know what? Normally i would agree that its a ripoff, but if people are willing to shell out a buck 42 and that's the current market value of those seats, i can't blame Stga for charging that price if people are willing to pay it.


Further proof that you are only interested in post counts and getting reactions from people

Did Saratoga raise their prices more than 20 percent?

You're right, i'm trying to get to first ballot HOF status at 20k posts and i expect you to congratulate me when that happens...since you seem to be obsessed with me and my post count.

Relwob Owner
05-13-2015, 04:06 PM
Did Saratoga raise their prices more than 20 percent?

You're right, i'm trying to get to first ballot HOF status at 20k posts and i expect you to congratulate me when that happens...since you seem to be obsessed with me and my post count.


More nonsense from you...who cares about the percentage? As YOU said, if the rooms are at current market value and people are willing to pay it, it should be OK, right? If your answer is no, then you are flip flopping because you said it was OK for Saratoga to do it. I know its hard to keep your own thoughts together when you post so much.

As far as being abscessed, I would substitute annoyed. The person who is trying to get to 20K posts would be the one in the obsessed category.

Stillriledup
05-13-2015, 04:21 PM
More nonsense from you...who cares about the percentage? As YOU said, if the rooms are at current market value and people are willing to pay it, it should be OK, right? If your answer is no, then you are flip flopping because you said it was OK for Saratoga to do it. I know its hard to keep your own thoughts together when you post so much.

As far as being abscessed, I would substitute annoyed. The person who is trying to get to 20K posts would be the one in the obsessed category.

There's a difference between what the hotels do and what the track does. Hotels gauge and "jack up" rates, i don't know if Saratoga jacks up rates for different days of their meet, is a wednesday and a saturday much different in price for seating, admission, etc?

Also, the track is the one putting on the show, the hotel is just piggybacking off the track while providing nothing 'better' than you could get for the same room in January.

Cratos
05-13-2015, 06:03 PM
going to Saratoga is a top event. if you go to the breeders cup you pay $1300 for a seat in the clubhouse (the frontrunner last year) go to the Kentucky Derby it will cost you $2500 for a seat in the clubhouse. go to the superbowl and you pay $1250 just for the face of the ticket if you are lucky to get one that way, over $4000 if you have to go to second market.

to me Saratoga is better than all these things. they are basically giving away their product yet we will always have people that will complain. they still let you walk through the door where the track has to try to keep clean bathrooms for you, clean up the are with all the garbage that is dropped all over the place each and every day. then they have to run their product with the very best workers in the industry to insure you have a great time. and then they have to pay steep insurance premiums in case you slip on a banana peel and hurt yourself.

at these prices they are giving the place away and still complainers.
You are correct about the Derby. Airfare, hotel rooms, car rental, and reserved seats for two pushed $10k at this year’s Derby.

Relwob Owner
05-13-2015, 06:38 PM
There's a difference between what the hotels do and what the track does. Hotels gauge and "jack up" rates, i don't know if Saratoga jacks up rates for different days of their meet, is a wednesday and a saturday much different in price for seating, admission, etc?

Also, the track is the one putting on the show, the hotel is just piggybacking off the track while providing nothing 'better' than you could get for the same room in January.


Ah ok. So your views of the economics of tracks and hotels were different..... rrrriiiiiiiggggghhhht....... Nice backpedal but at least you got to fire off a few more posts.

Stillriledup
05-13-2015, 07:29 PM
Ah ok. So your views of the economics of tracks and hotels were different..... rrrriiiiiiiggggghhhht....... Nice backpedal but at least you got to fire off a few more posts.

One company is providing the product, the other company is just leeching off them. And yes, more posts!

OTM Al
05-13-2015, 08:05 PM
One company is providing the product, the other company is just leeching off them. And yes, more posts!
Idiotic.

tanner12oz
05-13-2015, 08:27 PM
More nonsense from you...who cares about the percentage? As YOU said, if the rooms are at current market value and people are willing to pay it, it should be OK, right? If your answer is no, then you are flip flopping because you said it was OK for Saratoga to do it. I know its hard to keep your own thoughts together when you post so much.

As far as being abscessed, I would substitute annoyed. The person who is trying to get to 20K posts would be the one in the obsessed category.

its not a 20% increase if your not paying the additional entry fee at the gate either. I wish that they still did single ticket mail order. The Ticketmaster stuff is more annoying then anything else.

JustRalph
05-13-2015, 11:31 PM
One company is providing the product, the other company is just leeching off them. And yes, more posts!

It's all the same market. The same forces are driving the market.

I just think at some point you have reached a breaking point. No matter if you're the track or the hotel down the street

thespaah
05-13-2015, 11:52 PM
You left out the $200 a day for the cheap motel room that was $75 the week before the meet started. :(
No one likes it. But market forces dictate pricing.
The Saratoga meet is popular. Hence the higher prices and minimum of days hotels and motels require.
The only way to bring down the prices is....Don't go....

thespaah
05-13-2015, 11:54 PM
I'm the only horseplayer among two couples that have been taking a trip to the Saratoga area for years, spending Saturday at the track. The total cost this year for 4 Grandstand seats on Whitney Day: $142.55. What a ripoff. I think this is the last year our group goes to the track.
Pick a different weekend?....

thespaah
05-14-2015, 12:05 AM
And people just pay it, that's why they charge it. There should be laws against price gauging, there should be some rule that you can't raise a room more than 20 percent from what the average price of the room is all the other days of the year.
This is NOT price gouging....It is setting the price per the market.
An example of price gouging would be if there was only one hotel within walking distance of the track and they increased their per night stay from $100 to $1000....And only for those attending the races.
What you suggest is allowing government to interfere in private enterprise.
Let's say for a moment you are the Governor of NY. And you have executive order authority. You issue and EO as you have written above.
Do you know what's next? The owners of lodging establishments would hold their rooms off the open market and offer them only to those willing to pay for them. In other words the supply of rooms would be rationed.
BTW, in most states, there are laws which mandate a "maximum rack rate" for lodging establishments. Next time you have a stay, look at the card on the door. The card has on it the maximum rack rate. Quite frankly. most lodging establishments do not charge anywhere near that rate. If they did on a regular basis, their customers would go elsewhere.
Please. Don't get the government involved. They will screw it up for sure.
The rates in and around Saratoga and Lake George are not unreasonable for a resort area..Try Virginia Beach, Ocean City,MD, Myrtle Beach or Hilton Head in summer. You'd be shocked at the cost of a room...Especially ocean front. YIKES.

thespaah
05-14-2015, 12:12 AM
They're charging you for the privilege of giving them a blended 20 cents on a dollar of takeout. They're not giving anything away if you decide to actually bet. Now, if you go there and just watch the beauty of the sport and never make a bet, that's one thing, but if you stick a few hundred or more thru the windows, you're giving them 40, 50 or more dollars for the "privilege".

Its steep no matter how you slice it, only people with money they don't really need can afford this.
Hey. I save up for my annual trip to Saratoga. I consider it entertainment spending.
My wagering budget is set so in my week there I can go and bet 4 race cards. My goal is to turn a profit despite the takeout.
Newsflash. I'm an every day Joe...Far from wealthy. And not a two dollar per race bettor either. Like I said. I save up and respect my daily budget.
Saratoga is the preeminent horse racing meeting in North America. The 8 bucks to get the run of the place is well worth it.
I bring in my own food and grog. They let us do that. I hang out in the back yard or the rear of the upper floor of the Clubhouse. I make my wagers and go around front to watch the races. Been this way for almost 40 years. No worries.

thespaah
05-14-2015, 12:17 AM
This year the seat price INCLUDES track addmission at Saratoga.

Allan
Not according to this....https://www.nyra.com/saratoga/tickets/reserved-seats/
It clearly says admission is NOT included. Tickets purchased in advance of race day will have grandstand ($5) or Clubhouse($8) added.

thespaah
05-14-2015, 12:21 AM
Yeah, but if you already have a seasons pass why would you want to pay admission again to get a seat????? Another dumb move, but it is less confusing for people that think a seat also gets you in, like many tourist think. I'm there almost everyday, I go camping a couple times just to "get away". I get a seat like twice a year. Its usually a couple of the Sundays when the girl wants to go with me. I've said this before, say it again. The seats are way over rated. I don't even like them that much. I want to be by the paddock where everything happens and I can see the horses. You can walk on the apron or go upstairs for free when the race actually goes off. I have problems sitting still at the track in the first place. If the price of a seat is bothering you, you are basically wasting your money buying one............Walk in for 5 bucks if you don't have a pass...........that is a "giveaway" for the event you will get. I never understood the fascination with seats at the race track...I get bored sitting there...everything happens outside.
When was younger, having a seat at The Spa kind of made you feel special because seats were harder to get.
Now, I could not care less. I like the back yard. I go over to the paddock. Or to the right of the Jim Dandy bar..Or at the end of the clubhouse where the horses enter the track. I like ot get a good look at the horses.
Yeah, I'll have a "base". Picnic table or chair to go sit so I can handicap and relax. But I like to move about....It's more fun that way.

thespaah
05-14-2015, 12:27 AM
One company is providing the product, the other company is just leeching off them. And yes, more posts!
Leeching?...How so...
Umm this is capitalism....Use your brain for a moment. Do you think the Saratoga meet would be as heavily attended if there were no "leeches" around?
How do you refer to those who rent out their homes for the Meeting's duration? Are they leeches also?...And the homeowners who for a small fee let us park in their yards? parasites?.....
Wow. Just wow....
Come on dude....

NY BRED
05-14-2015, 06:35 AM
morale:

stay at home, buy the cannoli at your local bakery ,and
bet the savings on your AWd or local track;

OR

If at the Spa got to the Harness track, and bet the races at
that facility ...

:eek:

badcompany
05-14-2015, 01:45 PM
morale:



If at the Spa go to the Harness track, and bet the races at
that facility ...

:eek:

Ironically, this is what a lot of the locals do.

Tom
05-14-2015, 01:54 PM
After attending for decades, I finally realized I was paying to watch the races on a TV stuck in a frigging tree and paying exorbitant prices for inferior food. Toga is now a been there, done that for me. I have TVG and an ice box at home. And superior seating.

ronsmac
05-14-2015, 05:03 PM
As an adult I went to Saratoga once in 2010. I couldn't understand the fuss. Unbearable heat, overpriced seats, 3 dollar parking that was a long walk to the track, poor view of the far turn even with binoculars and a tornado like storm that came from nowhere , and the place just seemed old and worn down. The purists can6have it.

Inner Dirt
05-14-2015, 05:32 PM
Restaurants, hotels and sporting venues have raised and lowered rates due to supply and demand the 35 years+ I have been an adult. Why should horse tracks be any different? Other than taxes and government fees, most prices are set by supply and demand, which ones aren't? What businessman is going to sell a product for $5 that people will pay $25 for without lowering sales volume?

Stillriledup
05-14-2015, 05:53 PM
Restaurants, hotels and sporting venues have raised and lowered rates due to supply and demand the 35 years+ I have been an adult. Why should horse tracks be any different? Other than taxes and government fees, most prices are set by supply and demand, which ones aren't? What businessman is going to sell a product for $5 that people will pay $25 for without lowering sales volume?

People complain because horse racing is not a "one time fee" situation. Its like Casino's in Vegas...they don't charge parking or admission, but they give away their 'entertainment' for free and they make their money on the commissions they charge if you make a wager. Horse racing doesn't do that, you pay to enter, you pay to park and you pay to sit in a seat (all free in Vegas) and then if you make a bet, they take 20 cents from every dollar out of your wager, even though you "paid to get in".

HalvOnHorseracing
05-14-2015, 07:26 PM
People complain because horse racing is not a "one time fee" situation. Its like Casino's in Vegas...they don't charge parking or admission, but they give away their 'entertainment' for free and they make their money on the commissions they charge if you make a wager. Horse racing doesn't do that, you pay to enter, you pay to park and you pay to sit in a seat (all free in Vegas) and then if you make a bet, they take 20 cents from every dollar out of your wager, even though you "paid to get in".

I'm of two minds on situations like SAR. I've talked for years about making sure you know who your best customers are and taking care of them. That should include free parking, admission, program, and for big enough players a seat. For people who go once or twice, I'm not particularly riled about charging them more of a premium. If the only reason you go to the track is to bet, then I would agree with previous posters that you can go to the Racino (less than 5 minutes away) or turn TVG on, call Jimmy Johns and pull a Bud out of the refrigerator while you bet at your favorite ADW.


Everyone is going to have an opinion about the experience. I grew up there, so it has a special spot for me. But I think the ambience is worth a trip, and if your biggest complaint is that it can pour rain suddenly, well, you might bitch at the weather man instead of the track.

I think with the addition of the food trucks and the Steak N Shake AND Saratoga's famous Hattie's Fried Chicken, you have good food options. Last year the Fried Chicken sandwich (which was about the size of a baseball mitt) was a pretty decent deal at $10. And the Carousel is not haute cuisine, but it ain't so bad.

Here is my number one complaint. The people that get to the benches in the clubhouse and put a newspaper on them so it is theirs all day. IMO, these should not be free, first come, first serve seats. They should be available all day for people tired of standing to take a load off. You want a reserved seat - buy one. Otherwise, you get up and somebody else sits down, that's the way it goes.

They have entertainment behind the grandstand. The midget monsters, aka children, have plenty of spots they can be kids and not bother the bettors. They have plenty of betting windows and betting machines. The bathrooms are pretty clean, and tipping the bathroom attendant isn't that bad to have a clean place to go. You can always bring some handi-wipes and a bottle of Purell if you want to pee for free. The guy sitting there makes his living on what people hand him (and the good ones hand you a mint).

And how many tracks can you bring an entire cooler full of food in? Most tracks have strict, no outside food or drink rules.

Yeah, I figure between parking, admission, form I'm down a double sawbuck before I've bought a voucher. Add food and a soda and it's another $20. But I can tell you when I'm in the clubhouse watching the stretch run of a race I feel like a Catholic at the Vatican (which I've atually been).

Lot's of legitimate gripes have been posted. But summer without a day at Saratoga? Perish the thought.

Stillriledup
05-14-2015, 07:46 PM
I'm of two minds on situations like SAR. I've talked for years about making sure you know who your best customers are and taking care of them. That should include free parking, admission, program, and for big enough players a seat. For people who go once or twice, I'm not particularly riled about charging them more of a premium. If the only reason you go to the track is to bet, then I would agree with previous posters that you can go to the Racino (less than 5 minutes away) or turn TVG on, call Jimmy Johns and pull a Bud out of the refrigerator while you bet at your favorite ADW.


Everyone is going to have an opinion about the experience. I grew up there, so it has a special spot for me. But I think the ambience is worth a trip, and if your biggest complaint is that it can pour rain suddenly, well, you might bitch at the weather man instead of the track.

I think with the addition of the food trucks and the Steak N Shake AND Saratoga's famous Hattie's Fried Chicken, you have good food options. Last year the Fried Chicken sandwich (which was about the size of a baseball mitt) was a pretty decent deal at $10. And the Carousel is not haute cuisine, but it ain't so bad.

Here is my number one complaint. The people that get to the benches in the clubhouse and put a newspaper on them so it is theirs all day. IMO, these should not be free, first come, first serve seats. They should be available all day for people tired of standing to take a load off. You want a reserved seat - buy one. Otherwise, you get up and somebody else sits down, that's the way it goes.

They have entertainment behind the grandstand. The midget monsters, aka children, have plenty of spots they can be kids and not bother the bettors. They have plenty of betting windows and betting machines. The bathrooms are pretty clean, and tipping the bathroom attendant isn't that bad to have a clean place to go. You can always bring some handi-wipes and a bottle of Purell if you want to pee for free. The guy sitting there makes his living on what people hand him (and the good ones hand you a mint).

And how many tracks can you bring an entire cooler full of food in? Most tracks have strict, no outside food or drink rules.

Yeah, I figure between parking, admission, form I'm down a double sawbuck before I've bought a voucher. Add food and a soda and it's another $20. But I can tell you when I'm in the clubhouse watching the stretch run of a race I feel like a Catholic at the Vatican (which I've atually been).

Lot's of legitimate gripes have been posted. But summer without a day at Saratoga? Perish the thought.

Great post and i agree, the people who put a paper on the seat and then leave for hours shouldnt be able to come back and grab that seat again.

Now, here's the trick. If you get up to bet and plan on coming right back, you should be able to get back there and sit, there should be a way to save a seat for 5 mins but i agree, you can't get up out of the seat and walk around the park for an hour and leave the seat empty, there could be a better way.

I'm not a fan of 'bathroom attendants' i can get my own paper towel or toilet paper, so i dont know why they're in there to begin with.

HalvOnHorseracing
05-14-2015, 09:00 PM
Great post and i agree, the people who put a paper on the seat and then leave for hours shouldnt be able to come back and grab that seat again.

Now, here's the trick. If you get up to bet and plan on coming right back, you should be able to get back there and sit, there should be a way to save a seat for 5 mins but i agree, you can't get up out of the seat and walk around the park for an hour and leave the seat empty, there could be a better way.

I'm not a fan of 'bathroom attendants' i can get my own paper towel or toilet paper, so i dont know why they're in there to begin with.

I know the bathroom attendants don't look overworked, but I believe it is their job to keep that bathroom clean, and I'll bet if no one is doing it, the stalls would be gross by the end of the day. I figure you throw a buck in, you should be able to pee all day! I always think, if the best job you can get is bathroom attendant, you're probably not sitting on top of the world. But I know exactly what you are saying. I've got a race to bet - I can't be dealing with the guilt of taking a paper towel and not throwing a quarter in the basket.

If I were running Saratoga (no real danger of that happening) all you bench bums be on notice. I'm having my people throw the newspaper in the garbage. They'll be like park benches. Yours as long as you plant your butt on them, and open when you get up! LOL

moneyandland
05-14-2015, 09:16 PM
I know the bathroom attendants don't look overworked, but I believe it is their job to keep that bathroom clean, and I'll bet if no one is doing it, the stalls would be gross by the end of the day. I figure you throw a buck in, you should be able to pee all day! I always think, if the best job you can get is bathroom attendant, you're probably not sitting on top of the world. But I know exactly what you are saying. I've got a race to bet - I can't be dealing with the guilt of taking a paper towel and not throwing a quarter in the basket.

If I were running Saratoga (no real danger of that happening) all you bench bums be on notice. I'm having my people throw the newspaper in the garbage. They'll be like park benches. Yours as long as you plant your butt on them, and open when you get up! LOL

The jobs for bathroom attendant probably have a waiting list, the guys never leave I'd be willing to bet they're taking down $400 a day tax free minimum in the clubhouse, probably closer to $1000 on Fri,Sat, Sun

Tom
05-14-2015, 09:21 PM
IRS listening?

The Hawk
05-14-2015, 09:29 PM
I figure you throw a buck in, you should be able to pee all day!

And if I don't? Where should I pee, in the Big Red Spring?

HalvOnHorseracing
05-14-2015, 09:39 PM
And if I don't? Where should I pee, in the Big Red Spring?

I've tasted the water from the Big Red Spring. If you're peeing in it that explains the assault on my tastebuds.

You can pee for free. My point is that I throw a buck in the first time and I feel no guilt about peeing the rest of the day without a tip.

Tall One
05-14-2015, 10:05 PM
If at the Spa got to the Harness track, and bet the races at
that facility ...

:eek:



:ThmbUp:

Id love to visit the Spa, enjoy the atmosphere, but this is defintely more my speed.

tanner12oz
05-14-2015, 10:26 PM
Saratoga is the closest thing to what racing should be that we have. Is it perfect hell no but compared to elsewhere? Its Shangri la

Relwob Owner
05-14-2015, 10:34 PM
Saratoga is the closest thing to what racing should be that we have. Is it perfect hell no but compared to elsewhere? Its Shangri la


Best post in this thread. Totally agree. The place is like no other.

Relwob Owner
05-14-2015, 10:39 PM
Great post and i agree, the people who put a paper on the seat and then leave for hours shouldnt be able to come back and grab that seat again.

Now, here's the trick. If you get up to bet and plan on coming right back, you should be able to get back there and sit, there should be a way to save a seat for 5 mins but i agree, you can't get up out of the seat and walk around the park for an hour and leave the seat empty, there could be a better way.

I'm not a fan of 'bathroom attendants' i can get my own paper towel or toilet paper, so i dont know why they're in there to begin with.


Ever been to Saratoga?

Stillriledup
05-14-2015, 10:45 PM
Ever been to Saratoga?

Many years ago. Not recently though. Always had an incredible time, its a magical place for a horse player.

thespaah
05-14-2015, 10:46 PM
Great post and i agree, the people who put a paper on the seat and then leave for hours shouldnt be able to come back and grab that seat again.

Now, here's the trick. If you get up to bet and plan on coming right back, you should be able to get back there and sit, there should be a way to save a seat for 5 mins but i agree, you can't get up out of the seat and walk around the park for an hour and leave the seat empty, there could be a better way.

I'm not a fan of 'bathroom attendants' i can get my own paper towel or toilet paper, so i dont know why they're in there to begin with.
The "saving" of seats is more or less a tradition that most polite people respect and expect...
I do agree that if one is not going to use the seat they have saved but for more than a few fleeting moments, the "save" should become null and void.
Not sure the reason you object to the restroom attendants. I don't mind.
I just make sure I have a couple bucks worth of quarters to tip them. Especially if I have been imbibing on my favorite beer.

Stillriledup
05-14-2015, 10:48 PM
The "saving" of seats is more or less a tradition that most polite people respect and expect...
I do agree that if one is not going to use the seat they have saved but for more than a few fleeting moments, the "save" should become null and void.
Not sure the reason you object to the restroom attendants. I don't mind.
I just make sure I have a couple bucks worth of quarters to tip them. Especially if I have been imbibing on my favorite beer.

I know this is a silly question, but are all these bathroom attendants actual employees of the track, or are they just random people who "set up shop" in the bathroom (sort of how the guys who come up to your car in the parking lot at 7-11 and ask to clean your windows don't work for 7-11)?

thespaah
05-14-2015, 10:49 PM
its not a 20% increase if your not paying the additional entry fee at the gate either. I wish that they still did single ticket mail order. The Ticketmaster stuff is more annoying then anything else.
I despise ticket master and their confiscatory 'convenience fees'....
Fees that can be as much as 30% or more of face value.
Ticket master is no better than the back alley shylark.

thespaah
05-14-2015, 10:55 PM
morale:

stay at home, buy the cannoli at your local bakery ,and
bet the savings on your AWd or local track;

OR

If at the Spa got to the Harness track, and bet the races at
that facility ...

:eek:
"Leave the Gun. Take the cannoli".

HalvOnHorseracing
05-14-2015, 10:57 PM
I know this is a silly question, but are all these bathroom attendants actual employees of the track, or are they just random people who "set up shop" in the bathroom (sort of how the guys who come up to your car in the parking lot at 7-11 and ask to clean your windows don't work for 7-11)?

I believe they are sanctioned in some way by the track, probably for some liabiliity reason. But I don't think they draw any paycheck. Just the tips. What I'm not sure about is who is actually buying the toilet paper and the paper towels!

Stillriledup
05-14-2015, 11:03 PM
I believe they are sanctioned in some way by the track, probably for some liabiliity reason. But I don't think they draw any paycheck. Just the tips. What I'm not sure about is who is actually buying the toilet paper and the paper towels!

I think i'd be way more willing to tip them if i knew they were track employees and not people who were just there looking to make a quick buck. I always just assumed they were track employees, but i was never a hundred pct sure.

HalvOnHorseracing
05-14-2015, 11:06 PM
I think i'd be way more willing to tip them if i knew they were track employees and not people who were just there looking to make a quick buck. I always just assumed they were track employees, but i was never a hundred pct sure.

My perception is that the track has found yet one more way to save a buck by not paying the guy who maintains the bathroom.

Fager Fan
05-15-2015, 08:03 AM
Bathroom attendants are hired. They aren't waitstaff, so they aren't exempt from minimum wage. So they make minimum wage at least in addition to their tips.

dilanesp
05-15-2015, 02:20 PM
People complain because horse racing is not a "one time fee" situation. Its like Casino's in Vegas...they don't charge parking or admission, but they give away their 'entertainment' for free and they make their money on the commissions they charge if you make a wager. Horse racing doesn't do that, you pay to enter, you pay to park and you pay to sit in a seat (all free in Vegas) and then if you make a bet, they take 20 cents from every dollar out of your wager, even though you "paid to get in".

What I don't understand is why people think there's something wrong with that.

Live racing, unlike a Vegas casino, costs a ton of money to put on. It's also a pageant, and there are a lot of people, at least with respect to certain race days and race meets, who are willing to pay a fair amount of money to see the pageant. Meanwhile, horse racing is better than ever at letting people who want to just bet the races to do it for free or at low cost, on the Internet, by phone, or at off-track facilities.

I mean, should the Kentucky Derby cost the same as any other race day at Churchill Downs? Should it be free? That's crazy.

Race meetings that nobody wants to attend live don't charge very much. If you attend the races at Aqueduct in January, your expenses will be very low. And by the way, if you don't mind the cold weather, that's actually a great deal-- Aqueduct is utilitarian but also a darned fine place to watch a horse race.

But places like Saratoga (which I have never seen the charm in-- I find it crowded and disgusting) and Del Mar (which I *DO* see the charm in) are going to charge, because there's tens of thousands of people who are willing to pay it. What's wrong with that?

The reality is, certainly with respect to Saratoga (where NYRA runs all 3 tracks), the people who pay the big bucks there actually cross-subsidize low admission charges at Belmont and Aqueduct for ordinary horseplayers. Now, granted, Belmont and Aqueduct are not Saratoga (of course, I would say they are much better :) ), but New Yorkers can still see live racing for a very small cost and get a full day's entertainment, thanks in part to the rich folks who go up to Saratoga and pay big prices. That's good, not bad, for horseplayers.

As I've said before, cheapness is really parasitical. Cheap people make everything bad for the rest of us, because if people aren't willing to pay for something good, businesses will have to slash costs and not offer us anything good. That's what has happened to airlines. I'm very glad that some people are willing to pay to see the sport we all love so much.

Stillriledup
05-15-2015, 02:35 PM
What I don't understand is why people think there's something wrong with that.

Live racing, unlike a Vegas casino, costs a ton of money to put on. It's also a pageant, and there are a lot of people, at least with respect to certain race days and race meets, who are willing to pay a fair amount of money to see the pageant. Meanwhile, horse racing is better than ever at letting people who want to just bet the races to do it for free or at low cost, on the Internet, by phone, or at off-track facilities.

I mean, should the Kentucky Derby cost the same as any other race day at Churchill Downs? Should it be free? That's crazy.

Race meetings that nobody wants to attend live don't charge very much. If you attend the races at Aqueduct in January, your expenses will be very low. And by the way, if you don't mind the cold weather, that's actually a great deal-- Aqueduct is utilitarian but also a darned fine place to watch a horse race.

But places like Saratoga (which I have never seen the charm in-- I find it crowded and disgusting) and Del Mar (which I *DO* see the charm in) are going to charge, because there's tens of thousands of people who are willing to pay it. What's wrong with that?

The reality is, certainly with respect to Saratoga (where NYRA runs all 3 tracks), the people who pay the big bucks there actually cross-subsidize low admission charges at Belmont and Aqueduct for ordinary horseplayers. Now, granted, Belmont and Aqueduct are not Saratoga (of course, I would say they are much better :) ), but New Yorkers can still see live racing for a very small cost and get a full day's entertainment, thanks in part to the rich folks who go up to Saratoga and pay big prices. That's good, not bad, for horseplayers.

As I've said before, cheapness is really parasitical. Cheap people make everything bad for the rest of us, because if people aren't willing to pay for something good, businesses will have to slash costs and not offer us anything good. That's what has happened to airlines. I'm very glad that some people are willing to pay to see the sport we all love so much.

But many people, including myself, don't care how much it costs to put on the show, that's their problem, not mine. All i can do as a consumer is determine if the cost they're charging justifies the entertainment value i'll receive.

As far as 'cheap people' making things bad for the rest of us, well again, too bad, i don't care about that, im looking out for ME, if someone else provides me with an equivalent form of entertainment for a cheaper price, that's where i'm going. It doesn't matter to me, if i think they're not overcharging, i won't have any problem patronizing their business, it has nothing to do with 'being cheap' as i have no problem paying for something as long as i feel i'm getting a bang for my buck.

dilanesp
05-15-2015, 04:54 PM
But many people, including myself, don't care how much it costs to put on the show, that's their problem, not mine. All i can do as a consumer is determine if the cost they're charging justifies the entertainment value i'll receive.

As far as 'cheap people' making things bad for the rest of us, well again, too bad, i don't care about that, im looking out for ME, if someone else provides me with an equivalent form of entertainment for a cheaper price, that's where i'm going. It doesn't matter to me, if i think they're not overcharging, i won't have any problem patronizing their business, it has nothing to do with 'being cheap' as i have no problem paying for something as long as i feel i'm getting a bang for my buck.

That's fine Saratoga doesn't want your business.

Fager Fan
05-15-2015, 05:09 PM
But many people, including myself, don't care how much it costs to put on the show, that's their problem, not mine. All i can do as a consumer is determine if the cost they're charging justifies the entertainment value i'll receive.

As far as 'cheap people' making things bad for the rest of us, well again, too bad, i don't care about that, im looking out for ME, if someone else provides me with an equivalent form of entertainment for a cheaper price, that's where i'm going. It doesn't matter to me, if i think they're not overcharging, i won't have any problem patronizing their business, it has nothing to do with 'being cheap' as i have no problem paying for something as long as i feel i'm getting a bang for my buck.

That's how business works in a free market. If you think a flat-screen TV is too expensive, then you don't buy it. If you think Saratoga is too expensive, then you don't buy it. Sanyo and NYRA will react with their pricing according to how their customers react.

The bottom line here is that you're in the minority of customers. They'll sell just as many tickets as they did last year, leaving you to gripe some more but ultimately making zero difference. When the majority agree with you, and they don't buy tickets, then NYRA will react accordingly.

Stillriledup
05-15-2015, 05:15 PM
That's how business works in a free market. If you think a flat-screen TV is too expensive, then you don't buy it. If you think Saratoga is too expensive, then you don't buy it. Sanyo and NYRA will react with their pricing according to how their customers react.

The bottom line here is that you're in the minority of customers. They'll sell just as many tickets as they did last year, leaving you to gripe some more but ultimately making zero difference. When the majority agree with you, and they don't buy tickets, then NYRA will react accordingly.

I'm not griping, its no skin off my nose either way. If they sell enough tickets to satisfy their business, than they aren't charging too much for the people who spend the money. Each person can decide if its worth it or not worth it.

Stillriledup
05-15-2015, 05:17 PM
That's fine Saratoga doesn't want your business.

Its not something that interests me anyway, i wouldn't go if they paid me.

Relwob Owner
05-15-2015, 05:29 PM
Its not something that interests me anyway, i wouldn't go if they paid me.


Wait a sec. In post 63 you said this when I asked if you had ever been......

Many years ago. Not recently though. Always had an incredible time, its a magical place for a horse player.

Quite a change in less than 24 hours, no??????

OTM Al
05-15-2015, 07:26 PM
Wait a sec. In post 63 you said this when I asked if you had ever been......

Many years ago. Not recently though. Always had an incredible time, its a magical place for a horse player.

Quite a change in less than 24 hours, no??????

Please don't encourage him to post more.

Relwob Owner
05-15-2015, 07:32 PM
Please don't encourage him to post more.

Couldn't agree more. Strange that he responds to every other post within minutes but strangely won't reply to my last post about the "magic" he spoke of having disappeared within 24 hours. Sucks to get called out I guess...

When you post that much, how can you possibly keep track of what you are saying, especially when you are posting just to be heard?

HalvOnHorseracing
05-15-2015, 07:33 PM
I remember going to the second Pacquiao-Morales fight. Initially I thought I was just going to see the fight but in turns out the fight was really part of the overall event. The people, the atmosphere, the electricity. It was without question the best sporting event experience I've had. Same with me going to Saratoga. Yeah, the races are a big deal, but the overall experience of being there with the atmosphere makes it worth the effort and the expense. But that's just me.

Stillriledup
05-15-2015, 08:52 PM
Wait a sec. In post 63 you said this when I asked if you had ever been......

Many years ago. Not recently though. Always had an incredible time, its a magical place for a horse player.

Quite a change in less than 24 hours, no??????

No.

Relwob Owner
05-15-2015, 09:17 PM
No.


You said it was magical and less than 24 hours later said you wouldn't get there if you were paid to. More contradictory nonsense but at least you are consistently bad. Sucks to get busted I imagine.

Stillriledup
05-15-2015, 09:25 PM
You said it was magical and less than 24 hours later said you wouldn't get there if you were paid to. More contradictory nonsense but at least you are consistently bad. Sucks to get busted I imagine.

I'm not in love with your attitude, but since i'm a nice guy, i'll explain to you what i meant even though you seem like all you care about is hearing yourself talk as well as getting your post count up.

I haven't been to Stga in a long time, i had amazing times when i went, but i was a "kid" and things were a lot different than they are now as far as live track attendance goes. When i went to the Spa, this was pre simo days, you had to go to the track or else there was no way to see it or bet it. Now, i can see it fine on tv and bet it fine also, i wouldn't pay to commute to the Spa and pay the expenses, i've been there and done that and while its a great place and i have nothing but fond memories of it, i wouldn't spend a penny to get there today in 2015. I would have to be paid to go, but i would also have to be paid to go to a Super Bowl, but that doesn't mean its not a great event.

Relwob Owner
05-15-2015, 09:30 PM
I'm not in love with your attitude, but since i'm a nice guy, i'll explain to you what i meant even though you seem like all you care about is hearing yourself talk as well as getting your post count up.

I haven't been to Stga in a long time, i had amazing times when i went, but i was a "kid" and things were a lot different than they are now as far as live track attendance goes. When i went to the Spa, this was pre simo days, you had to go to the track or else there was no way to see it or bet it. Now, i can see it fine on tv and bet it fine also, i wouldn't pay to commute to the Spa and pay the expenses, i've been there and done that and while its a great place and i have nothing but fond memories of it, i wouldn't spend a penny to get there today in 2015. I would have to be paid to go, but i would also have to be paid to go to a Super Bowl, but that doesn't mean its not a great event.


Laughable backpedal but par for the course from ya.

Stillriledup
05-15-2015, 09:39 PM
Laughable backpedal but par for the course from ya.

Its ok, you can just make things up if you want and believe what you want to believe, i appreciate the give and take, i can add to my post count. Thanks.

OTM Al
05-15-2015, 11:18 PM
I remember going to the second Pacquiao-Morales fight. Initially I thought I was just going to see the fight but in turns out the fight was really part of the overall event. The people, the atmosphere, the electricity. It was without question the best sporting event experience I've had. Same with me going to Saratoga. Yeah, the races are a big deal, but the overall experience of being there with the atmosphere makes it worth the effort and the expense. But that's just me.
The atmosphere is everything. To tell the truth I get bored at the track itself most days as I won't bet more than 3-4 races on a card. The town and all that goes on there never gets old. So much more than just racing.

thespaah
05-16-2015, 12:33 AM
But many people, including myself, don't care how much it costs to put on the show, that's their problem, not mine. All i can do as a consumer is determine if the cost they're charging justifies the entertainment value i'll receive.

As far as 'cheap people' making things bad for the rest of us, well again, too bad, i don't care about that, im looking out for ME, if someone else provides me with an equivalent form of entertainment for a cheaper price, that's where i'm going. It doesn't matter to me, if i think they're not overcharging, i won't have any problem patronizing their business, it has nothing to do with 'being cheap' as i have no problem paying for something as long as i feel i'm getting a bang for my buck.
Oh but it is ( our problem)..You see, we want the highest quality we can get for our buck. We're like that, we humans. Do you think the Milwaukee Brewers should get the same prices for tickets as the St Louis Cardinals?
And you are 100% spot on.....""as a consumer"....Yes, that is part of determining the marketplace. If one sees no value in the product, they should not buy it.
We all decide what is the best bang for our buck. The Saratoga meeting is not unpopular for a bunch of reasons.

Waquoit
05-17-2015, 10:01 PM
Pick a different weekend?....

That's not possible. Our trip to the races is just one part of our annual weekend where we hit SPAC on Friday and Tanglewood on Sunday. We have tickets to those events and rooms booked.

And I didn't know what the tickets were going to cost until I logged on to Ticketmaster on May 11th. And I tried, I couldn't find a price.

I think so many posters here are missing the point. It's not the regular horseplayers that are filling up race days, it's the casual fan. My group couldn't care less if it was Whitney Day or Waya Day. They aren't coming back at $35. a seat. Or $24 for a normal race day. The NASCAR analogy is a good one. They killed the golden goose and the new NYRA is doing the same.

HalvOnHorseracing
05-17-2015, 11:03 PM
That's not possible. Our trip to the races is just one part of our annual weekend where we hit SPAC on Friday and Tanglewood on Sunday. We have tickets to those events and rooms booked.

And I didn't know what the tickets were going to cost until I logged on to Ticketmaster on May 11th. And I tried, I couldn't find a price.

I think so many posters here are missing the point. It's not the regular horseplayers that are filling up race days, it's the casual fan. My group couldn't care less if it was Whitney Day or Waya Day. They aren't coming back at $35. a seat. Or $24 for a normal race day. The NASCAR analogy is a good one. They killed the golden goose and the new NYRA is doing the same.

It is unfortunate that you won't be going back. I expect a lot of people who go to Disneyland ($99 a ticket), Sea World ($79 a ticket), Def Leppard at SPAC ($119 a ticket), or the observation deck of the Empire State Building ($50 a ticket) feel exactly the same, although others may think that once in a while for a special occasion it's not that outrageous a price. I do know one thing. If you go to any of those other venues there is zero chance you'll come back with more money than you went with. A good horseplayer can look at a race and decide which horses have a value worth wagering on. Same as with any recreation opportunity. You have to decide whether the price you pay is worth the value you get. Given the option to sit at home and comfortably bet on your ADW, perhaps NYRA will find any associated loss of on-site revenue troubling enough to make a change, but I expect none of us will hold our breath on that.

badcompany
05-17-2015, 11:28 PM
Those Def Lepard seats must have been close to the stage. Lawn tickets at SPAC are usually in the $20-30 range.

HalvOnHorseracing
05-18-2015, 09:35 AM
Those Def Lepard seats must have been close to the stage. Lawn tickets at SPAC are usually in the $20-30 range.

Yes, those are the up front seats, but the point doesn't change even at the $25 lawn price, unless your point is, who in their right mind would pay $119 for Def Leppard tickets?

ultracapper
05-18-2015, 11:46 AM
Right after Roger Waters left Pink Floyd he said it really didn't matter anyhow. They couldn't tour anymore because the show they put on would require $25 ticket prices just to break even. "Nobody on Earth is stupid enough to pay that" was his assessment at the time.

HalvOnHorseracing
05-18-2015, 11:56 AM
Right after Roger Waters left Pink Floyd he said it really didn't matter anyhow. They couldn't tour anymore because the show they put on would require $25 ticket prices just to break even. "Nobody on Earth is stupid enough to pay that" was his assessment at the time.

First big name concert I ever went to was at SPAC. Chicago was the headliner. Lawn seats - no, seats isn't the right word, more like lawn space - might have been $5. Apparently Roger Waters got over the issue of touring ticket prices. The tickets for The Wall were a bit more than $25.

dilanesp
05-18-2015, 03:22 PM
That's not possible. Our trip to the races is just one part of our annual weekend where we hit SPAC on Friday and Tanglewood on Sunday. We have tickets to those events and rooms booked.

And I didn't know what the tickets were going to cost until I logged on to Ticketmaster on May 11th. And I tried, I couldn't find a price.

I think so many posters here are missing the point. It's not the regular horseplayers that are filling up race days, it's the casual fan. My group couldn't care less if it was Whitney Day or Waya Day. They aren't coming back at $35. a seat. Or $24 for a normal race day. The NASCAR analogy is a good one. They killed the golden goose and the new NYRA is doing the same.

It doesn't matter whether your group comes back.

People are really weird. They actually think that a big corporation with lots of customers is deathly afraid of losing THEIR business, which only amounts to .01 percent of revenues or less!

I'm more familiar with Del Mar than Saratoga, being out west. (I do know something about NYRA, though, and I know a lot about their Belmont Stakes pricing model, which was devised in the 1990's and got a lot of publicity.) So I will talk about Del Mar a bit.

Del Mar charges far more for a day at the races than Santa Anita or Los Alamitos does or Hollywood Park did. You need a reserved seat most days, whereas you can sit for free at the other tracks, and the reserved seats cost a fair amount most days, a lot on weekends, and even more on big race days like Opening Day and for the Pacific Classic.

Parking is more expensive.

Food is more expensive. Drinks are more expensive.

And yet, Del Mar crushes all the other tracks in attendance. Really, it's not close. And it isn't just the summer meet-- Del Mar started a fall meet last year, during a time period when Hollywood Park traditionally got its tiniest crowds and just before Los Alamitos took over and got tiny crowds itself. Del Mar charged a ton even for the fall meet in lousy weather. And yet they still drew more than any other Southern California track does.

What is going on? Simply put, Del Mar spends a lot of money making their track luxurious. Everything is clean and immaculate. Restrooms are spotless. There's no paint chipping off, anywhere. Seats are never broken and always clean. Televisions and betting machines always work. Food is delicious. Staff is friendly. Trackside dining is efficient and delicious.

And they have a great turf club, and luxury boxes, for the really well-off.

They have made their track into a place people WANT to go to. People with money. People who can afford the finer things.

Now, I'm sure there are some people who look at the tally who say "I don't want to pay that, I will never go again". But you know what? People like that are lousy customers. The customers who LIKE to spend money are good customers.

Business really is often a matter of getting rid of the people who don't spend money while courting those who do. And the people who don't spend money don't seem to realize this-- they are like "why wouldn't Del Mar or Saratoga want my business?" when the answer is clear-- they don't make money on you, but they do make money by serving the folks who spend more.