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nearco
05-10-2015, 05:14 PM
Almost looked to me like the jockey was trying "not to win" on the winner here.
The horse that finished 2nd was close to even money fav and a stablemate of the winner.

X8lMJEwG_Qs

horses4courses
05-10-2015, 05:18 PM
We'll never know, will we?

nearco
05-10-2015, 05:23 PM
True, but if had failed to get up, he would surely have gotten a ban and a fine for "not trying".

Obviously, there is nothing you can do about it now, he won the race. But sure looks awful fishy. The runner up was actually backed into odds-on now that I look at the price again.

horses4courses
05-10-2015, 05:27 PM
True, but if had failed to get up, he would surely have gotten a ban and a fine for "not trying".

Obviously, there is nothing you can do about it now, he won the race. But sure looks awful fishy. The runner up was actually backed into odds-on now that I look at the price again.

What do you figure is his worst situation?
Getting a suspension from the stewards,
or enduring the wrath of the stable connections for winning?

horses4courses
05-10-2015, 05:40 PM
I have no idea what in that video suggests an attempt at not winning.

The winner was ridden out hands and heels.
It seemed fairly obvious that he would get to the front in time,
but it certainly wasn't due to any over-exertion from the jockey.

We have to assume that it was a "confident" ride.
Makes you wonder, though.

johnhannibalsmith
05-10-2015, 05:51 PM
The winner was ridden out hands and heels.
It seemed fairly obvious that he would get to the front in time,
but it certainly wasn't due to any over-exertion from the jockey.

We have to assume that it was a "confident" ride.
Makes you wonder, though.

I deleted my post when I actually read again the first post figuring I missed something. I was watching the eventual runner-up and should have watched a second time before posting because at that point it was obvious what I should have been scrutinizing.

I think the original poster has a pretty valid point.

dirty moose
05-10-2015, 07:17 PM
They're all bums. **** em.

Tall One
05-10-2015, 07:34 PM
The jock on the eventual winner was only halfway extending his arms. Horse got up, but mostly on his own merits. Good eye, nearco.

Stillriledup
05-10-2015, 09:44 PM
We'll never know, will we?

Why? Didn't we just watch the video? Seems cut and dried.

horses4courses
05-10-2015, 09:46 PM
Why? Didn't we just watch the video? Seems cut and dried.

He won.
End of story.

The story would have been had he lost.
Heffernan should have had hell to pay then.

Stillriledup
05-10-2015, 10:08 PM
He won.
End of story.

The story would have been had he lost.
Heffernan should have had hell to pay then.

Thats funny, THIS guy won and it wasn't the end of the story.

HOW COME?

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=104973&highlight=fairmount

horses4courses
05-10-2015, 10:28 PM
There's another difference between US racing and UK/Irish racing
that could have applied here.

Jockeys over there often "wrap up", or ease, a horse to the finish.
It's a ploy to both please the connections, and to attempt to camouflage
a horse's ability from official handicappers. These handicappers assign
ratings and weight for the horse's future races. The weight only applies
towards their handicap races, which are mainly inferior to stakes races.

I don't believe that Seamus Heffernan was trying any such deception here.
This is a high quality Aidan O'Brien horse breaking his maiden.
He won't be running in handicaps any time soon, if ever.

Looked like he was riding the horse apologetically.
He gave the favorite, ridden by the trainer's son Joseph,
every chance to beat him. He just didn't last up the hill.

horses4courses
05-10-2015, 11:30 PM
I love the chart description of the winning ride:

"nudged out to lead on line"

Must be a diplomat :lol:

1st (3) 3 Bondi Beach (IRE) A P O'Brien 3 9-5 J A Heffernan 7/1
Took keen hold, prominent, 2nd early, 5th 4f out, closed 3f out, 2nd before straight, pushed along 2f out, moderate 2nd 1f out, closed inside final furlong, nudged out to lead on line

http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/results/10-05-2015/leopardstown/result/670256/irish-catholic-newspaper-maiden

nijinski
05-11-2015, 01:14 AM
There's another difference between US racing and UK/Irish racing
that could have applied here.

Jockeys over there often "wrap up", or ease, a horse to the finish.
It's a ploy to both please the connections, and to attempt to camouflage
a horse's ability from official handicappers. These handicappers assign
ratings and weight for the horse's future races. The weight only applies
towards their handicap races, which are mainly inferior to stakes races.

I don't believe that Seamus Heffernan was trying any such deception here.
This is a high quality Aidan O'Brien horse breaking his maiden.
He won't be running in handicaps any time soon, if ever.

Looked like he was riding the horse apologetically.
He gave the favorite, ridden by the trainer's son Joseph,
every chance to beat him. He just didn't last up the hill.

I also just read a description of the ride , calling it sympathetic .
one , I laughed .
Perhaps he doesn't react well to the whip . Could be many answers but
you seem better informed o the matters of Euro racing. Love how these
outcomes are put into words !

nearco
05-11-2015, 08:33 PM
Btw, just in case anyone didn't realise it, despite the different colored silks, both horses are owned by the same connections, Coolmore. The winner was running in the colors of Derrick Smith and the runner up, who was odds-on fav, was running in the colors of Sue/John Magnier, all partners in Coolmore, so they are for all intents and purposes the same ownership.
It's almost like the jockey, who generally rides the 2nd and 3rd string horses for that stable, was afraid to beat the fancied stablemate ridden by the trainer's son.

Stillriledup
05-11-2015, 08:35 PM
Btw, just in case anyone didn't realise it, despite the different colored silks, both horses are owned by the same connections, Coolmore. The winner was running in the colors of Derrick Smith and the runner up, who was odds-on fav, was running in the colors of Sue/John Magnier, all partners in Coolmore, so they are for all intents and purposes the same ownership.
It's almost like the jockey, who generally rides the 2nd and 3rd string horses for that stable, was afraid to beat the fancied stablemate ridden by the trainer's son.

Silly question: Were they coupled in the betting?

horses4courses
05-11-2015, 10:27 PM
Silly question: Were they coupled in the betting?

No such thing as a coupled entry in Ireland, or the UK.

I believe France still has them.
They always used to, and are pari-mutuel only at their tracks.

horses4courses
05-11-2015, 10:39 PM
http://photos.racingpost.com/cache/rp/09/d5/15/5260d34952bdc96c487b316df09847d429fe7d8e4cc8848ea8 38e67949.jpg

Interesting post-race quote from the rider:

Seamie Heffernan said: "They are two nice horses. One is a front-runner and one can't get to the front. I got to the front when I wanted to."

http://www.irishracing.com/news?headline=Bondi-Beach-leads-home-O-Brien-one-two&prid=123706&prt=L

Stillriledup
05-11-2015, 10:48 PM
No such thing as a coupled entry in Ireland, or the UK.

I believe France still has them.
They always used to, and are pari-mutuel only at their tracks.

Thanks for the info.