Fixes- How can you tell if a beaten horse is a "stiff" job to get a price or not?

[kenwoodallpromos]

Post race irregular, slow, or no works.

[Turf2Dirt]

Past history of connections trying pull a stiff job, betting horses off of poor efforts with no return workouts is a bad propsition

so basically, you CANT tell. Stiff jobs for betting coups are a scarcity anyway, running over there head without intent to win, then dropping is far more common and is used to stave off possible claims.

[linrom1]

That's easy, Santos at odds on favorite in a sprint race. He'll get out of the gate dead-last.

[Valuist]

Just watch the jockey. If he isn't moving his hands urging the horse (in the stretch) and there's no traffic, it probably is a stiff. The other more subtle way is to steer the horse needlessly into traffic. I saw a horse at Belmont a little less than 2 weeks ago that I feel strongly was stiffed. Ironically the horse was ridden by a jock who doesn't normally ride at Belmont.

[cato]

Look, I know there's some larceny going on, but moving a thousand pound (+) animal-- at 35 miles per hour--into harm's way-and with no safety devices-- to set up a bet at sometime in the future--does not seem like a good way to pick up a few dollars.

The vast majority of stuff like that would be caused by the horse wanted to go over there to avoid a shadow or sniff another horses ass (or something likes that)

Running horse at a higer class, wrong surface or distance and/r when it is not at peak condition are the more sane ways of darkening the form.

Cato

[kenwoodallpromos]

Outside post, cannot get the lead, fades badly early, gets a better post next race. Hollendorfer and other traainers do it.
Runs lousy when coupled.
Dirt router-closer entered in a sprint (Straightaway).
Dirt sprinter entered at 7f to 1 1/8m (if began on a turn).

[Valuist]

If you have access to Brisbet's video replay library, check out the 4th at Belmont on May 14. The 5 horse is Paisley Park. The rider looks like he's trying up thru the turn. When the field turns for home, the rider just gives up. I thought he was going to pull the horse up at first but the horse finished the race. Maybe he realized he wasn't going to win and maybe the horse got hurt in the race. But if the mare wasn't hurt, there clearly was far less than a 100% effort by the rider.

[sq764]

This is where trainer intent angles come in handy.. Particularly the V-angle, WIR and FDK

[Turf2Dirt]

Originally posted by Valuist
Just watch the jockey. If he isn't moving his hands urging the horse (in the stretch) and there's no traffic, it probably is a stiff. The other more subtle way is to steer the horse needlessly into traffic. I saw a horse at Belmont a little less than 2 weeks ago that I feel strongly was stiffed. Ironically the horse was ridden by a jock who doesn't normally ride at Belmont.

Yeah I see that 7-8 times a day at Belmont, I think the Jockeys in New York are just chickenshit:mad:

[WINMANWIN]

Heres a couple I've have seen often:eek: :confused:
No speed in the race and your 3 to 5 shot is the only speed in the race. Steed break's o.k. but Jock is not perservering adequately
Hands are moving, but EVERYONE Does'NT Need Glasses to SEE
Jock has Strangle hold on the Animal :mad: Reverse form angle
one steed is favorite and runs behind another steed in 1 race
another race where they meet up, the steed that was favored and is an ok price, beats the other steed who has REDUCED ODDS when they meet again :( coupled entries that simply are exercising, cause the trainer tells 1 jock not TO burn out my other steed on the lead today :eek: WIDE TRIPS to nowhere, AKA Touring the Grandstand :rolleyes: photo finishes, when the track shows the photo, you wonder WHY the jock has a strangle HOLD ON THE STEEDS REINS, to obviously not want the PLACING:eek: Those are some, off the top of my head ;) I still love the game though, but remember this.......There's 3 things in Life that we are sure of DEATH,TAXES, AND JOCKS NEVER PASSING A POLY TEST :cool:

[kenwoodallpromos]

Can a favorite with too little show betting and maybe a lot on a different horse indicate a bad race coming up? (In CA owners and trainers can bet to place or show on a competitor).

[JackS]

Watch out for stakes and graded stakes horses coming off a layoff and entered in a CLassified Alw today. "Stiff" may be too strong a word but, these horses are seldom well meant at very short odds. They do win at times still, a bet against is the better play.

[delayjf]

.Particularly the V-angle, WIR and FDK
Got to ask, would you explain what you mean by the above.



photo finishes, when the track shows the photo, you wonder WHY the jock has a strangle HOLD ON THE STEEDS REINS, to obviously not want the PLACING

Not sure I follow this one, why would the connections send a horse all out to win, only to pull the horse at the most obvious part of the race, in front for all to see.

If I wanted to stiff a horse, I'd feed him just before taking him to the track

[kenwoodallpromos]

Can a colt lose a race by being in a stall next to a filly or removing its animal buddy (goat, dog, etc.)?

[OTM Al]

My favorite stiff job of late was at Aqueduct this winter. Sean Bridgemohan on Warm Feelings. He finished 4th in the race but only about a length and a half out of first. This was after rating the horse most the way around and then standing up well before the line. Needless to say he got fined for that one. Next time out the horse went off around 8-1 and he was rating the hell out of him again but still won the race. I'm still mad I missed that next run. I so wanted a piece of that one. Kept my eye on Sean, who is a very good rider, ever since.

[Turf2Dirt]

If I wanted to stiff a horse, I'd feed him just before taking him to the track

You can kill a horse that way too...

I heard Kent D. stood up well before the wire on a 1-5 today at hollywood, cost the horse a definite third. They bridge jumped on the horse, too. $20 for show payoff allround.

They need to start cracking down and handing out some serious supsensions, like the year Meche got(Lonnie/Donnie, I forgot)

[WINMANWIN]

Originally posted by delayjf
.

Not sure I follow this one, why would the connections send a horse all out to win, only to pull the horse at the most obvious part of the race, in front for all to see.

If I wanted to stiff a horse, I'd feed him just before taking him to the track

Its not only the win photo, I have seen numerous placing photos were 2 horses are almost on the line together, and 1 jock has his hands moving forward trying to beat the other, and the other jock would have his reins PULLED BACK.....:eek:

[Turf2Dirt]

Originally posted by kenwoodallpromos
Can a favorite with too little show betting and maybe a lot on a different horse indicate a bad race coming up? (In CA owners and trainers can bet to place or show on a competitor).

Yes, but not for the reason your thinking.

FYI Owners and Trainers from anywhere can bet on anything

[kenwoodallpromos]

www.chrb.com; Rule 1970, illegal for CA owner, trainer or employee, or jockey to bet on a competing horse.

[Turf2Dirt]

It's not enforced...

[vespa7]

Kent D has been suspended before for failing to ride out horses for th third spot. The best way these guys stiff a horse is miss the start slightly and than.........

[kenwoodallpromos]

Rule 1970 says legally only if they cash the winning ticket they made the bet. So I guess in the rule they are told how to cheat- have someone else cash the ticket.
I guess the racing industry trusts everybody. Including P.Val.

[vespa7]

too many lawyers now and bad wimpy stewards in the game. they can't prove anything anymore "if the glove don't fit you got to aquit mentality"

[kenwoodallpromos]

In fact, the Ca online owner's handbook explains that your trainer may put phony front wraps on and is all part of the game so other trainers will not know the horse's real condition. Rule 1970 is online also.