Top 5 underrated athletes in history.

[Stillriledup]

Its Tim Duncan and 4 other guys (or gals). Lets have your list. Pick any sports, even individual sports like Golf, Tennis, auto racing, track and field, etc.

[thaskalos]

Tim Duncan
Barry Sanders
John Smoltz
Ivan Lendl
Johan Cruyff

[Inner Dirt]

Time Duncan and Barry Sanders underrated? By who? Listening to the Spurs - Clippers series on the radio the announcers kept saying he is at least in the top 3 power forwards of all time and I don't know anyone who wouldn't put Barry Sanders on their all time top ten running back list, and probably top 5.

[Stillriledup]

Time Duncan and Barry Sanders underrated? By who? Listening to the Spurs - Clippers series on the radio the announcers kept saying he is at least in the top 3 power forwards of all time and I don't know anyone who wouldn't put Barry Sanders on their all time top ten running back list, and probably top 5.

If you wanted to, you could make the case Duncan is the best NBA player ever and when people give you their top 5 and top 10, he's rarely on any of those lists. That's underrated.

[BlueChip@DRF]

The Silver Medalists in every Olympics. :)

[tucker6]

If you wanted to, you could make the case Duncan is the best NBA player ever and when people give you their top 5 and top 10, he's rarely on any of those lists. That's underrated.
hahaha

[DeltaLover]

Sham should be one of them..

[MutuelClerk]

Rod Laver

Ray Robinson

Lem Barney

Frank Robinson

Marcel Dionne

[MutuelClerk]

As far as Barry Sanders goes this is probably the first time I've disagreed with Thaskalos on any issue. Barry was a great runner, made more people miss than anyone ever. But in the game of football, he didn't catch well, didn't block well and was usually pulled from the field when the ball was inside the five yard line. I just don't see him as underrated. Great? Certainly.

[Greyfox]

I'm not a boxing fan any more, but....

George Chuvalo
- heavy weight boxer - never won the title - never knocked out - never took a step back from any man in the ring ever - fought the toughest of fighters

From Wikipedia -
" Chuvalo was ranked #4 on ESPN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESPN)'s greatest chin in boxing history list (having never been knocked down or knocked out as an amateur or professional boxer). Chuvalo fought in the golden era of heavyweight boxing during the 1960s and 70s. He is a five-time Canadian heavyweight champion, and two-time world heavyweight title challenger. Chuvalo lost to heavyweight legends such as Floyd Patterson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floyd_Patterson), Muhammad Ali (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Ali), Joe Frazier (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Frazier) and George Foreman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Foreman), but was credited for his spirited performances. He did defeat top contenders such as Yvon Durelle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yvon_Durelle), Doug Jones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doug_Jones), Jerry Quarry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Quarry) and Cleveland Williams (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Williams)."
More at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Chuvalo

George, born in 1937 is still alive. His personal life was shattered several times.
He lost three of his sons to suicide and drug overdoses.
Just imagine, a man who never took a step back from Ali, Frazier, and Foreman.
He was one tough s.o.b.

[Valuist]

NFL: Bart Starr- top career QB rating in NFL history, back in an era when QBs didn't put up 100 numbers annually. Shocking he'd be above guys like Manning, Brady and Favre from today's era but he is.

Fred Taylor- 11th all time in rushing yards, yet he NEVER even made one Pro Bowl team.

Curtis Martin- 4th all time in rushing & shocking a guy like that could get overlooked playing in New York and Boston.

Al Kaline- tends to get overlooked due to all the all time greats from the 1960s.

Ferguson Jenkins- had amazing numbers pitching in a park where the wind blew out strongly at least half the season. Tends to be overlooked with other contemporaries like Gibson, Drysdale, Palmer, Seaver, etc.

Karl Malone- if he wins a title (or two), he'd be considered one of the all-time greats. Still highly regarded, but not at the top tier.

Slew O Gold- he hadn't peaked during the Triple Crown races of 1983, and a rough trip and a foot injury cost him the first BC Classic. Was a monster in the big fall NY races in 1983-1984.

[Robert Goren]

Jim Thorpe. He was voted the most outstanding athletes during the first half of the 20th century in 1950, but today is largely forgotten.

[Hank]

Rod Laver

Ray Robinson

Lem Barney

Frank Robinson

Marcel Dionne

Robinson?Every "expert" poll and "knowledgeable"boxing fan considers him the goat.

[Greyfox]

Robinson?Every "expert" poll and "knowledgeable"boxing fan considers him the goat.

Sugar Ray Robinson was a boxer's boxer. He had every skill in the book and more. A true master.

[Greyfox]

Jim Thorpe. He was voted the most outstanding athletes during the first half of the 20th century in 1950, but today is largely forgotten.

He was never underrated though. Just forgotten, as was Jack Dempsey.

A great athlete for sure. Burt Lancaster starred in the Jim Thorpe Story movie.

[ronsmac]

1.Pernell Whitaker 2. Moses Malone 3. Bert Jones 4.Eddie Murray 5. LeBron James

[Greyfox]

1.Pernell Whitaker 2. Moses Malone 3. Bert Jones 4.Eddie Murray 5. LeBron James

Lebron James underrated? By whom? I don't think so.

[ronsmac]

Lebron James underrated? By whom? I don't think so.Almost everyone I know says he sucks. I hear it on a daily basis. So that makes him underated in my eyes. I think so.

[Robert Fischer]

http://www.csnphilly.com/sites/csnphilly/files/usa-dick-allen-philadelphia-phillies.jpg

probably would be in the hall of fame if people were better with math


in Good Company?
NAME (years played), ADJUSTED Onbase%+Slugging% , batting hand
1. Babe Ruth+ (22) 206 L
2. Ted Williams+ (19) 190 L
3. Barry Bonds (22) 182 L
4. Lou Gehrig+ (17) 179 L
5. Rogers Hornsby+ (23) 175 R
6. Mickey Mantle+ (18) 172 B
7. Dan Brouthers+ (19) 170 L (old timers)
Shoeless Joe Jackson (13) 170 L
9. Ty Cobb+ (24) 168 L
10. Pete Browning (13) 163 R (old timers)
Jimmie Foxx+ (20) 163 R
Mark McGwire (16) 163 R
13. Dave Orr (8) 162 R (old timers)
Albert Pujols (15, 35) 162 R
15. Stan Musial+ (22) 159 L
16. Hank Greenberg+ (13) 158 R
Johnny Mize+ (15) 158 L
18. Tris Speaker+ (22) 157 L
19. Dick Allen (15) 156 R
Willie Mays+ (22) 156 R
Frank Thomas+ (19) 156 R
22. Hank Aaron+ (23) 155 R
Joe DiMaggio+ (13) 155 R
Mel Ott+ (22) 155 L
25. Miguel Cabrera (13, 32) 154 R


Not in the Hall of Fame
played 15 years was wayyyyyyyy better than a lot of guys today who get in to the HOF for being an All Star consistently.
Got on base.
Slugged.
Had some speed (133 lifetime steals)

Because he played during an era with low offensive production and he wasn't the most friendly smiling personality, he received just 11 HOF votes, one vote shy of the hall of fame.

[ronsmac]

Almost everyone I know says he sucks. I hear it on a daily basis. So that makes him underated in my eyes. I think so.Underrated.

[ronsmac]

NFL: Bart Starr- top career QB rating in NFL history, back in an era when QBs didn't put up 100 numbers annually. Shocking he'd be above guys like Manning, Brady and Favre from today's era but he is.

Fred Taylor- 11th all time in rushing yards, yet he NEVER even made one Pro Bowl team.

Curtis Martin- 4th all time in rushing & shocking a guy like that could get overlooked playing in New York and Boston.

Al Kaline- tends to get overlooked due to all the all time greats from the 1960s.

Ferguson Jenkins- had amazing numbers pitching in a park where the wind blew out strongly at least half the season. Tends to be overlooked with other contemporaries like Gibson, Drysdale, Palmer, Seaver, etc.

Karl Malone- if he wins a title (or two), he'd be considered one of the all-time greats. Still highly regarded, but not at the top tier.

Slew O Gold- he hadn't peaked during the Triple Crown races of 1983, and a rough trip and a foot injury cost him the first BC Classic. Was a monster in the big fall NY races in 1983-1984.Slew O Gold is a good choice. He reminds of Tiznow a little and both had foot problems.

[Greyfox]

Almost everyone I know says he sucks. I hear it on a daily basis. So that makes him underated in my eyes. I think so.

LeBron James makes over $20 million a year.
He's the highest paid player in Cleveland and 6 th highest in the NBA.
Your friends can say he sucks, but if he signed for a team that they are fans of, they'd soon change their minds.

[ronsmac]

LeBron James makes over $20 million a year.
He's the highest paid player in Cleveland and 6 th highest in the NBA.
Your friends can say he sucks, but if he signed for a team that they are fans of, they'd soon change their minds.Joe Johnson signed a max contract. So what does that have to do with it. Read some of the blogs6and see how many haters think Lebron's not that great. That makes him underrated by definition, if I think he's a top3 player all-time.

[Stillriledup]

Joe Johnson signed a max contract. So what does that have to do with it. Read some of the blogs6and see how many haters think Lebron's not that great. That makes him underrated by definition, if I think he's a top3 player all-time.
Lebron is underrated. I agree. The reason he's underrated, basketball skills and accomplishments aside, the "decision" and other reasons make him not loved as a person and when you're not loved as a person, people tend to want to not give you your due in your sports accomplishments.

[Greyfox]

Read some of the blogs6and see how many haters think Lebron's not that great. That makes him underrated by definition, if I think he's a top3 player all-time.

In hockey fans at most arenas "hate" Ovechkin and Crosby.

That doesn't mean they are under rated.

[TJDave]

Mickey Wright.

[thaskalos]

I just got done watching a documentary about Babe Ruth, and I am now of the opinion that RUTH might be the most underrated athlete of all time. Just because a player is regarded as one of the best players ever doesn't mean that he can't still be vastly underrated. Of course, that's strictly MY opinion...and I could easily be wrong.

[Inner Dirt]

I just got done watching a documentary about Babe Ruth, and I am now of the opinion that RUTH might be the most underrated athlete of all time. Just because a player is regarded as one of the best players ever doesn't mean that he can't still be vastly underrated. Of course, that's strictly MY opinion...and I could easily be wrong.

A lot of people forget he was a dominating pitcher before becoming a full time out fielder. Don't know how he kept his athleticism up on a steady diet of Hot Dogs and booze. I still don't understand how you could say he was underrated. Even people who don't follow sports know who Babe Ruth is. If asked to name one baseball player past or present, most people would pick Ruth in a runaway.

[TJDave]

I just got done watching a documentary about Babe Ruth, and I am now of the opinion that RUTH might be the most underrated athlete of all time. Just because a player is regarded as one of the best players ever doesn't mean that he can't still be vastly underrated. Of course, that's strictly MY opinion...and I could easily be wrong.

You are not wrong. Ruth was crazy good as both pitcher and hitter...in every category.

[Stillriledup]

In hockey fans at most arenas "hate" Ovechkin and Crosby.

That doesn't mean they are under rated.

But if any of that hate seeps into Sid or OV's actual GAME, than they become underrated because you have people who are rating them as less talented than they really are. A lot of the dislike towards Sid and Alex is because both players are great, all those haters would change their tune really quick of Sid or OV got traded to their favorite team.

[Stillriledup]

I just got done watching a documentary about Babe Ruth, and I am now of the opinion that RUTH might be the most underrated athlete of all time. Just because a player is regarded as one of the best players ever doesn't mean that he can't still be vastly underrated. Of course, that's strictly MY opinion...and I could easily be wrong.

Its hard for someone universally thought of as the "best ever" to be underrated, but i see where you are going with this. If you compare Ruth to Mike Trout and some of these chiseled specimens of today, he doesn't stack up....BUT, if you compare him to his contemporaries, he's a freak one of a kind player who was so much better than most everyone else his dominance was really hard to understand, even if you know the numbers, you can't know the "Feel" unless you lived it (and can remember it :D )

I like the idea of all time greats being underrated. Michael Jordan. Underrated, overrated or properly rated, i know as a Chicago guy, you might have a strong feeling on someone who is in the pantheon of this kind of greatness.

[TJDave]

If you compare Ruth to Mike Trout and some of these chiseled specimens of today, he doesn't stack up.....

Really? Do some research on Ruth's stats. Freaking amazing.

[thaskalos]

As far as Barry Sanders goes this is probably the first time I've disagreed with Thaskalos on any issue. Barry was a great runner, made more people miss than anyone ever. But in the game of football, he didn't catch well, didn't block well and was usually pulled from the field when the ball was inside the five yard line. I just don't see him as underrated. Great? Certainly.
Fair enough...you've convinced me. I am revising my list...and replacing Barry Sanders with Merlin Olson.

[Track Collector]

Washington Redskins DB Darrell Green.

[Stillriledup]

Really? Do some research on Ruth's stats. Freaking amazing.

No, i know, the stats are ridiculous...im just comparing one guy who was fat, smoked cigars, womanized, didn't sleep and showed up at the ball park w hangovers and god knows what else....and Mike Trout is an athletic freak, so stats aside, its hard for me to imagine that if Mike Trout was put in a time machine, with his physique and baseball skills in 1928, he wouldnt also be the greatest ever, do you think those guys in 1929 would get Mike Trout out? Im thinking no, i'm thinking he would hit 60 HRs and bat 500.

[thaskalos]

Fair enough...you've convinced me. I am revising my list...and replacing Barry Sanders with Merlin Olson.
So underrated is Merlin...that I even misspelled his last name. It's Olsen! :blush:

[MutuelClerk]

Dick Allen is a great call. Should be in the HOF. Adding more to the list.

Dave Keon

Dennis Rodman

Billy Casper

Jim Plunkett

[Stillriledup]

I like Valuists call on Malone, i think there's something underrated about great players who don't win titles...Dan Marino being probably the best and most famous of them all, maybe by definition all the greats who haven't won titles are underrated.

I mean, look at Philip Rivers Vs Big Ben vs Eli.....Rivers has no titles yet, he's probably on a par with Ben and Eli, he's not viewed as in their class, but can you really say he's much worse if worse at all? That's where the underratedness comes into play, fans tend to overvalue titles in team sports.

[Inner Dirt]

Really? Do some research on Ruth's stats. Freaking amazing.

Comparing him the rest of the players in that era he was in a class by himself. An example. in 1920 he hit 54 home runs the closest guy to that hit 19.

[MutuelClerk]

At that time Ruth was hitting more HR's by himself that some teams were hitting. Pretty amazing.

[Secondbest]

Otto Graham , Tony Perez ,Dick Allen (good one Robert Fischer) Dan Fouts, Billy Smith

[Secondbest]

Allen isn't the hall because the writers and a lot of the players hated him.And that counts a lot if your not a no brained just ask Jim Rice.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Chris Chelios

[Kash$]

Bruce Jenner:jump:

[Greyfox]

Pete Rose

[thaskalos]

Dick "The Bruiser"

[Augie16]

Alydar

[OTM Al]

Just brought up Yogi Berra in the baseball thread. Given his teammates he is often forgotten but look at his records. You like championships? 14 times in the World Series, 10 wins, more than any other player. Personal awards? Three time league MVP and twice second. 15 All Star games. Not only played catcher but also played the outfield fairly regularly. Stengel's favorite player.

And most just remember him for the funny things he didn't really say, unless he did.

[Valuist]

Washington Redskins DB Darrell Green.


Supposedly he could run the 40 in 4.4......as a 50 year old. That's pretty amazing.

[proximity]

Washington Redskins DB Darrell Green.

hard to say a hall of famer is underrated but another redskin i'd add to the list is Sammy baugh.

it's interesting to me that all of the top dozen punters (avg) in nfl history started their careers after the year 2000 except Sammy baugh.... who was a rookie in 1937. :eek:


http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/punt_yds_per_punt_career.htm

[Shemp Howard]

Allen isn't the hall because the writers and a lot of the players hated him.And that counts a lot if your not a no brained just ask Jim Rice.

The fact that he couldn't throw or field has nothing to do with it.

[Inner Dirt]

hard to say a hall of famer is underrated but another redskin i'd add to the list is Sammy baugh.

it's interesting to me that all of the top dozen punters (avg) in nfl history started their careers after the year 2000 except Sammy baugh.... who was a rookie in 1937. :eek:


http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/punt_yds_per_punt_career.htm

Probably the best all around NFL player ever. I would say he would only be underrated by people who do not understand the evolution of the game. I no longer go there because the blind homers drove me nuts but on the 49er Webzone there were countless young people even after they had it explained to them a million times that thought 21st century quarterbacks were far superior to the ones 35+ years ago because the huge numbers they put up. I kept telling people in most sports athletes must be compared to their peers in the same era because the games have changed.

[Shemp Howard]

"There was this kid I grew up with; he was younger than me. Sorta looked up to me, you know. We did our first work together, worked our way out of the street. Things were good, we made the most of it. During Prohibition, we ran molasses into Canada... made a fortune, your father, too.

"As much as anyone, I loved him and trusted him. Later on he had an idea to build a city out of a desert stop-over for GI's on the way to the West Coast. That kid's name was Moe Greene, and the city he invented was Las Vegas. This was a great man, a man of vision and guts. And there isn't even a plaque, or a signpost or a statue of him in that town!

[Marshall Bennett]

Archie Moore and Paul Hornung are two for now. :)

[maddog42]

Jim Thorpe

I spent a couple years living in Yale Oklahoma, and heard tales, some true some not about Thorpe.

Thorpe began his athletic career at Carlisle in 1907 when he walked past the track and beat all the school's high jumpers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_jump) with an impromptu 5-ft 9-in jump still in street clothes.[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Thorpe#cite_note-bookrag-14) His earliest recorded track and field results come from 1907. He also competed in football, baseball, lacrosse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lacrosse_%28sport%29) and even ballroom dancing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballroom_dancing), winning the 1912 intercollegiate ballroom dancing championship.[15] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Thorpe#cite_note-SI2004-15)

Thorpe gained nationwide attention for the first time in 1911.[17] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Thorpe#cite_note-Redskin-17) As a running back (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Running_back), defensive back (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_back), placekicker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placekicker) and punter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punter_%28football_position%29), Thorpe scored all his team's points—four field goals and a touchdown—in an 18–15 upset of Harvard, a top ranked team in those early days of the National Collegiate Athletic Association (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Collegiate_Athletic_Association#History).[16] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Thorpe#cite_note-Warner-16) His team finished the season 11–1. In 1912 Carlisle won the national collegiate championship largely as a result of his efforts – he scored 25 touchdowns (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touchdown) and 198 points during the season.[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Thorpe#cite_note-CNN-13)

Carlisle's 1912 record included a 27–6 victory over Army (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Military_Academy).[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Thorpe#cite_note-NYTobit-6) In that game, Thorpe's 92-yard touchdown was nullified by a teammate's penalty, but on the next play Thorpe rushed for a 97-yard touchdown.[18] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Thorpe#cite_note-usoc-18) Future President Dwight Eisenhower (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwight_Eisenhower), who played against him that season, recalled of Thorpe in a 1961 speech:
"Here and there, there are some people who are supremely endowed. My memory goes back to Jim Thorpe. He never practiced in his life, and he could do anything better than any other football player I ever saw."[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Thorpe#cite_note-CNN-13)


(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Thorpe#cite_note-CNN-13)His schedule in the Olympics was busy. Along with the decathlon and pentathlon, he competed in the long jump and high jump. The first competition was the pentathlon. He won four of the five events and placed third in the javelin, an event he had not competed in before 1912. Although the pentathlon was primarily decided on place points, points were also earned for the marks achieved in the individual events. He won the gold medal. That same day, he qualified for the high jump final in which he placed fourth, and also took seventh place in the long jump. Even more remarkably, because someone had stolen his shoes just before he was due to compete, he found some discarded ones in a rubbish bin and won his medals wearing them.[20] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Thorpe#cite_note-20) He is shown in the 1912 photo wearing two different shoes and extra socks because one shoe was too big.

Overall, Thorpe won eight of the 15 individual events comprising the pentathlon and decathlon.

Thorpe's achievements received great acclaim from sports journalists, both during his lifetime and since his death. In 1950 an Associated Press (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associated_Press) poll of almost 400 sportswriters and broadcasters voted Thorpe the "greatest athlete" of the first half of the 20th century.[67] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Thorpe#cite_note-67) That same year, the Associated Press (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associated_Press) named Thorpe the "greatest American football player" of the first half of the century.[68] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Thorpe#cite_note-68) In 1999, the Associated Press placed him third on its list of the top athletes of the century, following Babe Ruth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babe_Ruth) and Michael Jordan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jordan).[69] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Thorpe#cite_note-69) ESPN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESPN) ranked Thorpe seventh on their list of best North American athletes of the century.[70] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Thorpe#cite_note-70)

Thorpe was inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_Football_Hall_of_Fame) in 1963, one of seventeen players in the charter class.[71] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Thorpe#cite_note-71) Thorpe is memorialized in the Pro Football Hall of Fame rotunda with a larger-than-life statue. He was also inducted into halls of fame for college football, American Olympic teams, and the national track and field competition.[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Thorpe#cite_note-CNN-13)

The above quotes are from Wikipedia.

[Valuist]

Probably the best all around NFL player ever. I would say he would only be underrated by people who do not understand the evolution of the game. I no longer go there because the blind homers drove me nuts but on the 49er Webzone there were countless young people even after they had it explained to them a million times that thought 21st century quarterbacks were far superior to the ones 35+ years ago because the huge numbers they put up. I kept telling people in most sports athletes must be compared to their peers in the same era because the games have changed.

Not better all around than Walter Payton. Payton was such a great athlete, he filled in at QB for part of a game and also did the same with punting.

[Marshall Bennett]

Gayle Sayers comes to mind. What a shame his career was cut short. What he might have accomplished.

[Secondbest]

Almost everyone I know says he sucks. I hear it on a daily basis. So that makes him underated in my eyes. I think so.
38pts 6asts 14 reb 41 minutes. Yeah he sucks.

[ronsmac]

38pts 6asts 14 reb 41 minutes. Yeah he sucks.You forgot the 3 steals, 3 blocks and 0 turnovers.

[NJ Stinks]

Fran Tarkington
Billy Casper
Jose Santos
John Williamson
Rocky Colavito

[Marshall Bennett]

Rocky Colavito
Oh yeah..Rocky and Sudden Sam played many a year on some really bad Indian's teams. They're often overlooked. :)

[Stillriledup]

How about Mark Bavaro.

[thaskalos]

How about Mark Bavaro.
WHO??

[cj]

WHO??


Giants tight end, but not sure he would be in anyone's top 100 at the position.

[Marshall Bennett]

Big Frank Howard. Hit monster home-runs for some really lousy teams. Once again often overlooked. :)

[ronsmac]

WHO??Jeremy Shockey before Jeremy Shockey.

[ReplayRandall]

It took 22 years for the best punter in the history of the NFL to be inducted into the Hall-of-Fame--> RAY GUY

[classhandicapper]

Earl Anthony

Willie Mosconi

Roberto Clemente

Blame

Jenna Jameson ;)

[AndyC]

No, i know, the stats are ridiculous...im just comparing one guy who was fat, smoked cigars, womanized, didn't sleep and showed up at the ball park w hangovers and god knows what else....and Mike Trout is an athletic freak, so stats aside, its hard for me to imagine that if Mike Trout was put in a time machine, with his physique and baseball skills in 1928, he wouldnt also be the greatest ever, do you think those guys in 1929 would get Mike Trout out? Im thinking no, i'm thinking he would hit 60 HRs and bat 500.

Yes, but would he win 94 games as a pitcher and have a lifetime ERA of 2.28?

[AndyC]

If only women are considered Bruce Jenner would have to make the list.

[Tor Ekman]

Ralph Kiner, played virtually his entire career as the only "bat" in the lineup and still mashed

[TJDave]

Willie Mosconi


Willie Hoppe

[thaskalos]

Willie Hoppe
Darren Appleton

[TJDave]

Darren Appleton

Compared with three cushion, pool is child's play. Hoppe would have carved him up.

[traynor]

Elena Shushunova. Vera Kolisnikova. Oksana Omelianchik.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIf8Cu1Hesk

[thaskalos]

Compared with three cushion, pool is child's play. Hoppe would have carved him up.
In three cushion billiards, yes...Hoppe would have carved him up.

[Stillriledup]

Giants tight end, but not sure he would be in anyone's top 100 at the position.

If you watched the games, you know. If you don't really watch, or don't know what you're looking at, you might say what you just said. Bavaro is an all time great, at full power, very few were better.

[cj]

If you watched the games, you know. If you don't really watch, or don't know what you're looking at, you might say what you just said. Bavaro is an all time great, at full power, very few were better.

LOL, yeah, I'm a diehard Giants fan but I didn't watch the games. He was a good player. He had a couple Pro Bowl years. But he had injuries and his run was a short one. Had he played at that Pro Bowl level for a decade, sure, he'd be a lot higher on my list. But, he didn't.

[George Sands]

1: Rich Jackson.

2: Ernie Holmes.

3: Bill Walton.

4: Dan Hampton.

5: Jose Cruz (the elder).

5: (tie) Robby Robinson.

[cj]

1: Rich Jackson.

2: Ernie Holmes.

3: Bill Walton.

4: Dan Hampton.

5: Jose Cruz (the elder).

5: (tie) Robby Robinson.

I'll be honest, I haven't a clue who Robby Robinson is.

[highnote]

If only women are considered Bruce Jenner would have to make the list.


Probably the greatest transgender athlete the world has ever known.

[cj]

Probably the greatest transgender athlete the world has ever known.

Renee Richards?

[reckless]

Damascus

Pete Maravich

Walt Bellamy

Dale Murphy

Billy Conn

[Stillriledup]

LOL, yeah, I'm a diehard Giants fan but I didn't watch the games. He was a good player. He had a couple Pro Bowl years. But he had injuries and his run was a short one. Had he played at that Pro Bowl level for a decade, sure, he'd be a lot higher on my list. But, he didn't.


http://www.giants.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Mark-Bavaro-receives-HOF-endorsement-from-Bill-Belichick/bdc54bd3-c6d5-43cc-bc35-aac3f260f98d

[cj]

http://www.giants.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Mark-Bavaro-receives-HOF-endorsement-from-Bill-Belichick/bdc54bd3-c6d5-43cc-bc35-aac3f260f98d


Let me know when he gets in.

[ReplayRandall]

Let me know when he gets in.
Took Ray Guy 22 years, and he was the GREATEST at his position, multiply that by 10 for Bavaro.... :cool:

[classhandicapper]

Darren Appleton

That guy is a total terror.

I started when 14.1 was the big game.

I've seen just about every great 14.1 pool player other than Mike Euphemia, Arthur Cranfield, and Ralph Greenleaf.

I saw Mike Sigel, Nick Varner, Ray Martin, Allen Hopkins, Gene Nagy, Dallas West, Jack Colavito, and Steve Mizerak many times while at their best. I saw Irving Crane, Luther Lassiter, and Willie Mosconi play when they were still great but a bit past their peak. I've seen all the current players.

I watched Darren Appleton play 14.1 in a tournament in Astoria Queens (via computer). I think it was last year, but it might have been the year before. He was absolutely incredible. It was some of the best straight pool I have ever witnessed. I've seen him play some 9 ball too and he's great at that too.

Great choice. You have to be underrated when you are God-like and no one other than pool degenerates ever heard of you.

[Stillriledup]

Let me know when he gets in.

Belichick said he's great, you said he's not top 100, i have a hunch he's in Bill's top 100, but that's just a wild guess.

[ronsmac]

Renee Richards?Cyborg by far. She says she's a woman, many people have their doubts.

[cj's dad]

Larry Holmes

[thaskalos]

That guy is a total terror.

I started when 14.1 was the big game.

I've seen just about every great 14.1 pool player other than Mike Euphemia, Arthur Cranfield, and Ralph Greenleaf.

I saw Mike Sigel, Nick Varner, Ray Martin, Allen Hopkins, Gene Nagy, Dallas West, Jack Colavito, and Steve Mizerak many times while at their best. I saw Irving Crane, Luther Lassiter, and Willie Mosconi play when they were still great but a bit past their peak. I've seen all the current players.

I watched Darren Appleton play 14.1 in a tournament in Astoria Queens (via computer). I think it was last year, but it might have been the year before. He was absolutely incredible. It was some of the best straight pool I have ever witnessed. I've seen him play some 9 ball too and he's great at that too.

Great choice. You have to be underrated when you are God-like and no one other than pool degenerates ever heard of you.
:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

I have been a pool degenerate all my life...and Appleton is the only pool player who leaves me with my mouth open in amazement. Even his safeties are a work of art.

[Marshall Bennett]

Larry Holmes
Larry's left jab was second to none. Got up from some devastating knockdowns (Shavers, Snipes) only to win fight. Held title several years.
A much tougher fighter than most gave him credit for.

[TJDave]

:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

I have been a pool degenerate all my life...and Appleton is the only pool player who leaves me with my mouth open in amazement. Even his safeties are a work of art.

I didn't realize Appleton also played straight pool. His stock just went up in my book.

This might be tough for a Greek ;) but check out Semih Sayginer.

[thaskalos]

I didn't realize Appleton also played straight pool. His stock just went up in my book.

This might be tough for a Greek ;) but check out Semih Sayginer.

I saw this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwRMiSEYUt4 about a month ago...and I was shocked by this guy's skill. I meant to post the video here in a prior post...but I couldn't remember the player's name. :)

[cj]

Belichick said he's great, you said he's not top 100, i have a hunch he's in Bill's top 100, but that's just a wild guess.

I have a hunch Bill is biased. Let me know when he gets in.

[ultracapper]

Comparing him the rest of the players in that era he was in a class by himself. An example. in 1920 he hit 54 home runs the closest guy to that hit 19.

He had 2 seasons when he hit more home runs than any other American League TEAM.

[ultracapper]

Just brought up Yogi Berra in the baseball thread. Given his teammates he is often forgotten but look at his records. You like championships? 14 times in the World Series, 10 wins, more than any other player. Personal awards? Three time league MVP and twice second. 15 All Star games. Not only played catcher but also played the outfield fairly regularly. Stengel's favorite player.

And most just remember him for the funny things he didn't really say, unless he did.

I shit you not, I was just going to name him. Holds more World Series records than any other batter. I'm a hard core baseball fan. Good call.

[ultracapper]

Another is Lou Gehrig. Over shadowed by Ruth, then DiMaggio, he was truly the heart and soul of his Yankee teams. In discussions, he rarely stands alone, always mentioned as a member of this great Yankee team or that great Yankee team, but he was arguably every bit the baseball player either of the two mentioned above were. A true all time great. And an outstanding college pitcher.

[Stillriledup]

I have a hunch Bill is biased. Let me know when he gets in.

If there's anyone in sports who doesn't blow smoke up people's butts just because he's biased is that guy. Belichick isn't going to say those things about Bavaro if they weren't true, maybe other guys, but not him.

[TJDave]

Pheidippides

[thaskalos]

Pheidippides

A more modern version...who, although largely unknown, is considered a living legend by those who are aware of his standing in his sport.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yiannis_Kouros

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7UzmKxe3Xk

[burnsy]

Another is Lou Gehrig. Over shadowed by Ruth, then DiMaggio, he was truly the heart and soul of his Yankee teams. In discussions, he rarely stands alone, always mentioned as a member of this great Yankee team or that great Yankee team, but he was arguably every bit the baseball player either of the two mentioned above were. A true all time great. And an outstanding college pitcher.

Agreed, today is the 76th anniversary of his Luckiest Man Alive speech. The guy played every day for about 17 years, was a great player and by all accounts a great man. The "Iron Horse"....is a legend but is often a forgotten one

http://bronxpinstripes.com/beyond-baseball/a-look-back/on-this-day-in-yankees-history-1939-2/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oW1RuGqw7g

The Pride of the Yankees, Gary Cooper 1942, great movie.

[highnote]

Can't remember if I posted this link about Jack Trice before in this thread, but here it is again -- an amazing athletic story:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Trice

[Valuist]

Another is Lou Gehrig. Over shadowed by Ruth, then DiMaggio, he was truly the heart and soul of his Yankee teams. In discussions, he rarely stands alone, always mentioned as a member of this great Yankee team or that great Yankee team, but he was arguably every bit the baseball player either of the two mentioned above were. A true all time great. And an outstanding college pitcher.

Gehrig is considered one of the 10 greatest players of all time, so I'm not sure if that qualifies as underrated. I wouldn't put him above Ruth or Mays but after that, one can almost pick numbers for who was 3-10.

[Marshall Bennett]

Gehrig played in the shadow of Ruth, so history hasn't served him due justice.

[Rookies]

Curt Flood

[MutuelClerk]

Enough of the Yankee love. There's no way ANY Yankee can be underrated. A lot of them were great and probably in the HOF. But underrated? No way.

[Marshall Bennett]

Curt Flood
Believe the dealings surrounding him kicked off the free agency era in major league baseball. Very fine player none the less.

[Valuist]

Enough of the Yankee love. There's no way ANY Yankee can be underrated. A lot of them were great and probably in the HOF. But underrated? No way.

Agree 100%. Gehrig was mentioned earlier but he's on most top 10 of all-time lists. Ruth is an icon. Mantle & Dimaggio were never overlooked. Nor Yogi Berra or Whitey Ford, Derek Jeter or Mariano Rivera. Reggie Jackson or Goose Gossage. Name an era; none of them were overlooked.

[Kash$]

Dave Winfield

[MutuelClerk]

The fact Derek Jeter some how won five gold gloves amazes me. What really amazes me about Jeter is he's the only Yankee with 3,000 hits. All that tradition, that lore and he's the only Yankee with 3,000 hits? Crazy.

[Valuist]

The fact Derek Jeter some how won five gold gloves amazes me. What really amazes me about Jeter is he's the only Yankee with 3,000 hits. All that tradition, that lore and he's the only Yankee with 3,000 hits? Crazy.

Do you mean 3,000 as a Yankee, or Yankees who've had 3000 hits? I was surprised Ruth didn't, but he had so many walks that took away viable at bats. Gehrig's career was cut short by disease.

I see several players who were Yankees for part of their careers who've topped 3000 hits: A-Rod, Wade Boggs, Rickey Henderson, and the guy mentioned a couple posts above, Dave Winfield.

[Marshall Bennett]

Sam McDowell / Rocky Colavito . A shame their talent was wasted with the Indians for so many years.

[mountainman]

Rick Barry...Bernard King...Larry Holmes...Chris Evert...Walt Frazier

[PhantomOnTour]

Aeneas Williams

he did make it into the NFL Hall of Fame last year, but few folks recognize him as one of the best ever...I think he's a top 5 cornerback all time

[Stillriledup]

Enough of the Yankee love. There's no way ANY Yankee can be underrated. A lot of them were great and probably in the HOF. But underrated? No way.

Overrated and underrated are funny concepts, did you realize that for every person who thinks someone is overrated it actually pushes them closer to being underrated and vice Verca?

[proximity]

the ufc doesn't like him/ doesn't talk about him, but prime frank shamrock.

[Marshall Bennett]

Vida Blue. Typically anyone who associates themselves with drugs or illegal activity along the way is tossed aside as consideration for anything. He was almost unhittable for a few seasons none the less with amazing stuff.
Doc Gooden was another.

[Stillriledup]

Article on one of the games most underrated players, Mark Bavaro

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2015/01/patriots_bill_belichick_ex-giants_tight_end_mark_b.html

[Valuist]

Rick Barry...Bernard King...Larry Holmes...Chris Evert...Walt Frazier

Other than Bernard King, aren't the other 4 all considered legends in their sports?

[Stillriledup]

Other than Bernard King, aren't the other 4 all considered legends in their sports?

They could still be underrated.

[cj]

They could still be underrated.

Underrated legend? What is above legend?

[Stillriledup]

Underrated legend? What is above legend?

If Bernard King is a legend and Michael Jordan is a legend does that mean they're equal players or equally legendary?

[Valuist]

If Bernard King is a legend and Michael Jordan is a legend does that mean they're equal players or equally legendary?

King isn't a legend.

[ebcorde]

Ran - dall Ran - dall


Andrew "The Boston Strangler" Toney
Michael Jack Schmidt
Allen Iverson
Bernie Parent
Terry Bradshaw

Big 5 Basketball.

Villanova NCAA champs 1985.
Coach Rollie Massimimo

and lastly for you Chip Kelly guys. Donovan McNabb

[1st time lasix]

Kohci Uchimura---top gymnast of all time and no one knows who he is..... Mention: John Havlechek....Bobby Orr... Byron Nelson....Sam Snead....Wilbur Marshall....Jack Youngblood....Leroy Selmon.....fresh raspberries :)

[tucker6]

Ran - dall Ran - dall


Andrew "The Boston Strangler" Toney
Michael Jack Schmidt
Allen Iverson
Bernie Parent
Terry Bradshaw

Big 5 Basketball.

Villanova NCAA champs 1985.
Coach Rollie Massimimo

and lastly for you Chip Kelly guys. Donovan McNabb
no on randall and mcnabb. Above average qb's and that is about it. Mcnabb has the better stats, but he was a whiny, gutless qb when under the gun in the two minute offense. The epitomy of non-greatness.

[cj]

If Bernard King is a legend and Michael Jordan is a legend does that mean they're equal players or equally legendary?

I don't think Bernard King was one of the ones considered a legend, he was the one left out.

[Stillriledup]

I don't think Bernard King was one of the ones considered a legend, he was the one left out.

Sorry. So insert Rick Barry. Is he on the same 'legendary plane' as Jordan?

[cj]

Sorry. So insert Rick Barry. Is he on the same 'legendary plane' as Jordan?

So Barry is overrated, not underrated, right?

[ebcorde]

no on randall and mcnabb. Above average qb's and that is about it. Mcnabb has the better stats, but he was a whiny, gutless qb when under the gun in the two minute offense. The epitomy of non-greatness.
:lol: #12 had plenty of enemies, he's still my favorite.

But since he played in Philly, it never works out. Dr. J should have had 3.


McNabb same thing. except for that 1 year when he was throwing the ball into the dirt. I can't complain 5 NFC title games. he beats all these other bums we've had since. It may be 30 years before Phil gets a good QB.

[Stillriledup]

So Barry is overrated, not underrated, right?

I don't know if he's overrated or underrated.

The idea of overrated vs underrated is usually public perception and not actual talent.

[ronsmac]

Sorry. So insert Rick Barry. Is he on the same 'legendary plane' as Jordan?
Jordan was in a movie but was he ever on the back of comic books the way Rick Barry was?

[Stillriledup]

Jordan was in a movie but was he ever on the back of comic books the way Rick Barry was?

I guess not! :D

[tucker6]

:lol: #12 had plenty of enemies, he's still my favorite.

But since he played in Philly, it never works out. Dr. J should have had 3.


McNabb same thing. except for that 1 year when he was throwing the ball into the dirt. I can't complain 5 NFC title games. he beats all these other bums we've had since. It may be 30 years before Phil gets a good QB.
I liked Randall a lot. His athleticism at the qb position was and is unrivaled imho.