Baltimore Freddie Gray Update

[cj's dad]

I have lived in Baltimore for all of my life (67 years) and have come to know many people in law enforcement and in the city's political circles. I have been told that FG was a confidential police informant and that he had crossed the line and the police were looking for him at the time of his apprehension. His tox screen showed signs of recently ingested drugs in his system at the time of arrest. He also was a self inflicted "stitches for snitches" victim.

Two of the officers charged have been incorrectly ID'd so those charges will be dropped.

Stay tuned for more riots that will be dealt with harshly !!

[tucker6]

I have lived in Baltimore for all of my life (67 years) and have come to know many people in law enforcement and in the city's political circles. I have been told that FG was a confidential police informant and that he had crossed the line and the police were looking for him at the time of his apprehension. His tox screen showed signs of recently ingested drugs in his system at the time of arrest. He also was a self inflicted "stitches for snitches" victim.

Two of the officers charged have been incorrectly ID'd so those charges will be dropped.

Stay tuned for more riots that will be dealt with harshly !!
As for the bolded, it would be stunning beyond comprehension if after a 'careful' review of the facts, that the DA didn't charge the correct people. Talk about incompetent.

[cj's dad]

According to a detective friend of mine, it is true..

[woodtoo]

I'm assuming its the first 2 arresting officers and the knife which the DA. may have thought was illegal,either way a charge of murder for an illegal arrest is more than incredulous. :bang:

I watched a CNN interview with former city DA Page Croyder, she had no kind words on how this whole investigation was handled by the DA, none.

[FocusWiz]

If I am to believe some of the "facts" coming out of this story, they did not know the van's actual route back and/or how many stops it made and now they don't know for certain which officers were involved.

I am amazed.

Are we talking about a major city or some hick town? (rhetorical question)

[FantasticDan]

As for the bolded, it would be stunning beyond comprehension if after a 'careful' review of the facts, that the DA didn't charge the correct people. Talk about incompetent.I assume he was referring to this:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/blog/bal-freddie-gray-arrest-documents-drawn-up-for-wrong-people-20150504-story.html

[Clocker]

I'm assuming its the first 2 arresting officers and the knife which the DA. may have thought was illegal,either way a charge of murder for an illegal arrest is more than incredulous.

I have seen a couple of stories saying that the knife was legal under state law, but not under Baltimore law. The DA has thus far refused to show the knife to defense attorneys. It looks like the legality of the knife is an issue that is not clear cut and would be part of the trial.

[woodtoo]

I have seen a couple of stories saying that the knife was legal under state law, but not under Baltimore law. The DA has thus far refused to show the knife to defense attorneys. It looks like the legality of the knife is an issue that is not clear cut and would be part of the trial.

Her case has humpty dumpty written all over it, this is just the tip of the egg,

I predict she will soon be wearing.

[Clocker]

Mosby correctly notes the “knife was not a switchblade”—but police never said it was.

“The knife was recovered by this officer,” Officer Garrett Miller wrote in the arrest report, “and found to be a spring-assisted, one-hand operated knife.”

Spring-assisted knives open on their own after a small push on the blade by a finger, unlike switchblades, which shoot out with the press of a button.

Despite their differences, they’re both illegal in Baltimore.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/05/05/did-baltimore-s-prosecutor-see-freddie-gray-s-legal-knife.html

[Stillriledup]

I'm assuming its the first 2 arresting officers and the knife which the DA. may have thought was illegal,either way a charge of murder for an illegal arrest is more than incredulous. :bang:

I watched a CNN interview with former city DA Page Croyder, she had no kind words on how this whole investigation was handled by the DA, none.

Is it possible that they just "Arrested" everyone to calm the riots but purposely made "mistakes" so that eventually this stuff would get tossed out somewhere down the line due to "poor police prodedure" ?

[Clocker]

Is it possible that they just "Arrested" everyone to calm the riots but purposely made "mistakes" so that eventually this stuff would get tossed out somewhere down the line due to "poor police prodedure" ?

I don't know about the second part of that, but it seems obvious that calming the mobs was very much on the mind of the DA. As I remember, the charges were filed by the DA the same day that she got the results of the investigation, which doesn't give much time for thinking about getting it right.

Alan Dershowitz calls it crowd control, and suggests that the process may have violated the officers' rights to due process. More grounds for dismissal or appeal?

WHEN BALTIMORE’S STATE attorney Marilyn Mosby announced charges last week against six officers in the death of Freddie Gray and proclaimed to the city that “I heard your call for ‘no justice, no peace,’” it’s possible that her decisions were based, at least in part, on the understandable goal of preventing further riots. This goal is commendable, but the mean selected to achieve it — hearing the call of demonstrators — raises fundamental questions regarding the due process right of those charged with serious crimes.

No decision on charges should ever be made on the basis of satisfying the demands of demonstrators or under the threat of violent demonstrations. Crowd control is not a proper component of prosecutorial discretion and is inconsistent with due process. Prosecutorial discretion should be exercised on the basis of an objective application of the law to the facts and not on the basis of the impact it may have on the crowd.


http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/editorials/2015/05/05/baltimore-charges-justice-crowd-control/SlIT89IGBNZb5E1STLSLjN/story.html

[woodtoo]

Is it possible that they just "Arrested" everyone to calm the riots but purposely made "mistakes" so that eventually this stuff would get tossed out somewhere down the line due to "poor police prodedure" ?
I suggest watching the video on utube, she also stated to all Baltimore cops..

" I'd be looking for another job immediately. And as a Baltimore citizen, I may start looking for another place to live."

Also on CCT video released by authorities (camera #2014) Freddie Grey is seen running into an apartment building. Ditching something ?

Then running out into police hands. They probably didn't know at the time.

[cj's dad]

Last night-7 shot-2 dead- all in black sections of Baltimore- ho hum- life as usual- wheres the outrage

[tucker6]

Last night-7 shot-2 dead- all in black sections of Baltimore- ho hum- life as usual- wheres the outrage
Generally speaking, if you act like a savage, is it any surprise that you are treated like one?

[woodtoo]

Last night-7 shot-2 dead- all in black sections of Baltimore- ho hum- life as usual- wheres the outrage
Texas must be looking better by the day.

[Robert Goren]

Texas must be looking better by the day. Not if you bet online!

[woodtoo]

Not if you bet online!
Good point, your safe to go to the track or OTB. :)

[Inner Dirt]

What I don't understand is no matter what side someone takes they mostly do not acknowledge any wrong doings what so ever from their side. The people on the side of the cops act like Freddie Gray severed his own spine with no outside help, the Freddie Gray camp make no mention that he was a life long petty criminal who was arrested over a dozen times.

Speaking from personal experience, when I was young and drove fast cars and had a smart mouth I had a few negative encounters with police, never arrested, never was beaten, but was put in cuffs a few times, had a gun pointed at me, harassed a little bit, etc,etc. When I got older and calmed down and drove an SUV the negative encounters stopped. I was still getting pulled over doing a lot of out of state traveling as my Garmin gave me weird routes to ATMs through residential areas. So I became a potential drug runner. In 100% of the encounters with police I reaped what I had sown. Young guy with big mouth = Negative encounters, middle aged and polite = treated with professionalism.

Moral of the story, most of these police encounters that have bad endings have two things in common, the perp did something wrong and acted out when caught, the cops over reacted and lost their composure. If you treat the cop with respect it will usually be returned, treat them poorly and that will usually be reciprocated also.

[Stillriledup]

What I don't understand is no matter what side someone takes they mostly do not acknowledge any wrong doings what so ever from their side. The people on the side of the cops act like Freddie Gray severed his own spine with no outside help, the Freddie Gray camp make no mention that he was a life long petty criminal who was arrested over a dozen times.

Speaking from personal experience, when I was young and drove fast cars and had a smart mouth I had a few negative encounters with police, never arrested, never was beaten, but was put in cuffs a few times, had a gun pointed at me, harassed a little bit, etc,etc. When I got older and calmed down and drove an SUV the negative encounters stopped. I was still getting pulled over doing a lot of out of state traveling as my Garmin gave me weird routes to ATMs through residential areas. So I became a potential drug runner. In 100% of the encounters with police I reaped what I had sown. Young guy with big mouth = Negative encounters, middle aged and polite = treated with professionalism.

Moral of the story, most of these police encounters that have bad endings have two things in common, the perp did something wrong and acted out when caught, the cops over reacted and lost their composure. If you treat the cop with respect it will usually be returned, treat them poorly and that will usually be reciprocated also.

The 64 dollar question is no matter how much of a criminal FG was in the past, did his past history deserve the treatement he received. If these cops were told they would get a 10k bonus if FG arrived at his destination safe and sound, i bet he would have arrived safe and sound. But, 10k or not, shouldn't he have arrived safe and sound?

[Clocker]

Upholding the noble traditions of Eric Holder, new Atty. Gen. Loretta Lynch has announced a DOJ investigation of the Baltimore police department. No point in waiting to see how the city handles the problem, let's just barge right in on top of the Baltimore proceedings.


U.S. Attorney General Loretta Lynch announced Friday that the Justice Department is launching a civil rights investigation into the Baltimore Police Department.

Previously, Lynch explained, her team had examined whether particular officers violated policies, but now it will look into whether the Baltimore Police Department violated the Constitution and the civil rights of residents.


http://news.yahoo.com/justice-department-to-investigate-baltimore-police-for-civil-rights-violations-133949380.html

[woodtoo]

The 64 dollar question is no matter how much of a criminal FG was in the past, did his past history deserve the treatement he received. If these cops were told they would get a 10k bonus if FG arrived at his destination safe and sound, i bet he would have arrived safe and sound. But, 10k or not, shouldn't he have arrived safe and sound?

Only at SRU Downs do you get 10k to get your horse back to the barn safe
and sound :D
But if he does turn up lame, don't you expect an inquiry and vet inspection
before you burn the track down, or charge the jockey,groom,and hot walker
with murder.



It really is a sad situation for all involved and the city of Baltimore.

[woodtoo]

[QUOTE=Clocker]Upholding the noble traditions of Eric Holder, new Atty. Gen. Loretta Lynch has announced a DOJ investigation of the Baltimore police department. No point in waiting to see how the city handles the problem, let's just barge right in on top of the Baltimore proceedings.


Yeah right. Putting out the fire with gasoline.
How bout they investigate the civil riots.DOH

[Inner Dirt]

The 64 dollar question is no matter how much of a criminal FG was in the past, did his past history deserve the treatement he received. If these cops were told they would get a 10k bonus if FG arrived at his destination safe and sound, i bet he would have arrived safe and sound. But, 10k or not, shouldn't he have arrived safe and sound?

I agree that being a career petty non violent criminal does not merit a beating let alone a severed spine. Just stating that most people who have a bad experience with cops did something to provoke it. Also cops stopping people without probable cause has been going on since the caveman days. I should know I had a barely street legal car (It was basically a Nascar with lights and bumpers) in the late 70's. Was sick and tired of cops tailing me and hiding in my blind spot waiting for me to get on it. When ever we would be tailed by friends would hang out the window and give the cops the finger and yell obscenities at them. That would earn me a stop for a "safety inspection" they would check tires, wipers, lights, horn,etc,etc. Then send me on my way. I probably got pulled over weekly, sometimes by the same cops that pulled me over recently. They would get very angry not finding anything wrong while we verbally abused them, not crossing the line of being threatening. Then later when I started driving slow pick up trucks and calmed down I probably went the next decade without being stopped.

[Inner Dirt]

Where was the DOJ when the cops got off with no criminal charges here?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Kelly_Thomas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Kelly_Thomas).

The video if you have seen it is very disturbing as the first cop on the scene threatens Mr. Thomas who is just sitting on a bus bench. It seems the DOJ only cares when black people are wronged, who cares about a white slightly built mentally ill homeless guy.

[Greyfox]

If you treat the cop with respect it will usually be returned, treat them poorly and that will usually be reciprocated also.

The moral usually being:

"We reap what we sew."

[fast4522]

If I am to believe some of the "facts" coming out of this story, they did not know the van's actual route back and/or how many stops it made and now they don't know for certain which officers were involved.

I am amazed.

Are we talking about a major city or some hick town? (rhetorical question)

Looks like reasonable doubt to me.

[woodtoo]

Lawyer's have filed DA recluse and dismissal.

[Robert Fischer]

What I don't understand is no matter what side someone takes they mostly do not acknowledge any wrong doings what so ever from their side. The people on the side of the cops act like Freddie Gray severed his own spine with no outside help, the Freddie Gray camp make no mention that he was a life long petty criminal who was arrested over a dozen times.


One of the causes for this irrational behavior is a bias towards commitment and consistency.

Once you've chosen a stance on Freddy Gray, your brain will naturally want to form a bias to stay consistent with that stance.

For me I wasn't even able to make that mistake.

I didn't even make any attempt to even choose a rational stance on the Freddy Gray issue. Not even in the beginning. I irrationally felt I already had to choose the stance I did, because of my political leanings.

There are lots of causes of misjudgement, that is just one example.

[PhantomOnTour]

The moral usually being:

"We reap what we sew."
Sew ?

[Robert Goren]

Good point, your safe to go to the track or OTB. :)For now. Don't bet too much money on there being horse racing in Texas much longer. The tracks are in bad shape financially. They are hanging on hoping for casino gambling, which they probably won't get. By the way, I do not believe they have OTBs in Texas. If you are a gambler and want to leave Maryland, there are better places to go.

[JustRalph]

For now. Don't bet too much money on there being horse racing in Texas much longer. The tracks are in bad shape financially. They are hanging on hoping for casino gambling, which they probably won't get. By the way, I do not believe they have OTBs in Texas. If you are a gambler and want to leave Maryland, there are better places to go.

Lone Star park's Bar and Book is rocking pretty good on weekends. It's very nice and I'm sure it's making money

[RunForTheRoses]

Sew ?

A Stitch in Thyme saves nine.

[Tom]

Sew ?

Sew what?

[Tom]

A Stitch in Thyme saves nine.

I though it was a switch of thyme saves brine! :p

[Tom]

Some good news - our local cop-killer got convicted yesterday. Bad news we can't fry him - life in prison is the best we can do. Too bad his lawyer walks.

[PhantomOnTour]

Sew what?
:)

[Inner Dirt]

One of the causes for this irrational behavior is a bias towards commitment and consistency.

Once you've chosen a stance on Freddy Gray, your brain will naturally want to form a bias to stay consistent with that stance.

For me I wasn't even able to make that mistake.

I didn't even make any attempt to even choose a rational stance on the Freddy Gray issue. Not even in the beginning. I irrationally felt I already had to choose the stance I did, because of my political leanings.

There are lots of causes of misjudgement, that is just one example.

Although I usually vote republican I often conflict with party ideals. What baffles me is almost every issue has to be divisive politically almost down to what flavor of ice cream someone likes. Like here, no matter what usually the democrats will stick up for the perp 100% no matter what they did, and the republicans will stick up for the cops to the bitter end, I find that baffling.

[Greyfox]

Sew ?

Quit mocking an Indian tribe. :)

[PhantomOnTour]

Quit mocking an Indian tribe. :)
:lol:
Thx for taking my ribbing in good spirits...no harm intended Greyfox :ThmbUp:

[Robert Goren]

Although I usually vote republican I often conflict with party ideals. What baffles me is almost every issue has to be divisive politically almost down to what flavor of ice cream someone likes. Like here, no matter what usually the democrats will stick up for the perp 100% no matter what they did, and the republicans will stick up for the cops to the bitter end, I find that baffling.In this case, the perps are the cops.

[tucker6]

In this case, the perps are the cops.
Are you sure about that??

[Tom]

In this case, the perps are the cops.

According to an inept, racist, political motivated/controlled ditzy broad who decalred it such.

I will wait for reality.
The word of a Black women democrat with politcal aspirations in Baltimore carries no weight with me. It was a rush to judgement to placate a mob of animals, nothing more.

[RunForTheRoses]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9nwcpGZE6A

[Robert Goren]

According to an inept, racist, political motivated/controlled ditzy broad who decalred it such.

I will wait for reality.
The word of a Black women democrat with politcal aspirations in Baltimore carries no weight with me. It was a rush to judgement to placate a mob of animals, nothing more.Really, Tom? I did not see a rush to judgment at all. I thought it moved at a snail pace consider in most homicides, charges are filed and the perps arrested with a few hours, not weeks. If this did not involve cops, it would happen here too. If you or I had taken someone and threw him in a back of a covered picked up and that someone died as a result, how long would have taken them to bring charges?

[Tom]

Really, Tom? I did not see a rush to judgment at all.

Do you set your watch by Gulfstream time?
Better buy a new one.

Mosby had the report, what 30 seconds before she file charges?
She didn't have time to read the damn thing.

Did you listen to her so-called speech?
It was obvious the report was nothing more than a trigger for her predetermined action, most likely given to her by the WH through the DOJ.

[Robert Goren]

Do you set your watch by Gulfstream time?
Better buy a new one.

Mosby had the report, what 30 seconds before she file charges?
She didn't have time to read the damn thing.

Did you listen to her so-called speech?
It was obvious the report was nothing more than a trigger for her predetermined action, most likely given to her by the WH through the DOJ. Two Missisippi Cops murdered yesterday. The perps are in custody already, as they should be. No waiting around for weeks for some report to arrest them. Nobody is calling that a rush to judgment nor should there be anyone doing so.. No one is calling the calling arrests politically motivated. But when somebody is murder by the police, we have to wait forever for an arrest. Even then, the arrest must be politically motivated, because a police officer. would never commit murder. Drew Peterson did not kill his ex. It was all a political frame up aimed at the police, yeah right.

http://news.yahoo.com/two-police-officers-shot-dead-mississippi-reports-085110051.html;_ylt=AwrC1C7kHE9VYCgA_QzQtDMD;_ylu= X3oDMTByOHZyb21tBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYw Nzcg--

[Clocker]

Two Missisippi Cops murdered yesterday. The perps are in custody already, as they should be. No waiting around for weeks for some report to arrest them.

If a cop is shot, it is generally fairly clear that a crime was committed. :rolleyes:

In the Freddie Gray case, the cause of death was not known until after an autopsy. And it is still not known how the injury occurred, let alone who is responsible. So the DA, with virtually no facts, rounded up her suspects and threw a bucketful of charges at them, hoping one would stick.

As facts start to come out, it appears that even the most basic charge, false arrest, is completely wrong. And certainly it would be a lot easier to prove false arrest than murder or manslaughter. As a juror, how much credibility would you give a murder charge by a DA that doesn't even understand what false arrest is?

[Robert Goren]

If a cop is shot, it is generally fairly clear that a crime was committed. :rolleyes:

In the Freddie Gray case, the cause of death was not known until after an autopsy. And it is still not known how the injury occurred, let alone who is responsible. So the DA, with virtually no facts, rounded up her suspects and threw a bucketful of charges at them, hoping one would stick.

As facts start to come out, it appears that even the most basic charge, false arrest, is completely wrong. And certainly it would be a lot easier to prove false arrest than murder or manslaughter. As a juror, how much credibility would you give a murder charge by a DA that doesn't even understand what false arrest is? So far that is nothing more than speculation by a few the police can do no wrong commentators on the cable news networks.
Grey died in custody from injuries that he did not have before he was taken in to custody. That spells the likelihood that somebody did something wrong, unless you are one those people who subscribe to the theory that Grey tried to paralyze himself. There is no way that putting Grey in the van without seat belting him in was not an attempt to injuring him. No cop is stupid enough to think he was not going to be injured by that act. It is not like the Baltimore police does not have a large and long history of having to paying out money for police misconduct. The police force's record is far longer than that of Grey's and precedes the prosecutor's time in office.

[davew]

Two Missisippi Cops murdered yesterday. The perps are in custody already, as they should be. No waiting around for weeks for some report to arrest them. Nobody is calling that a rush to judgment nor should there be anyone doing so.. No one is calling the calling arrests politically motivated. But when somebody is murder by the police, we have to wait forever for an arrest. Even then, the arrest must be politically motivated, because a police officer. would never commit murder. Drew Peterson did not kill his ex. It was all a political frame up aimed at the police, yeah right.

http://news.yahoo.com/two-police-officers-shot-dead-mississippi-reports-085110051.html;_ylt=AwrC1C7kHE9VYCgA_QzQtDMD;_ylu= X3oDMTByOHZyb21tBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYw Nzcg--

one of those cops was black - I can't wait for the DOJ, 'blacklivesmatter', and Al Sharpton to head to Mississippi for the 'hate crime' and broken civil liberties.

[Clocker]

So far that is nothing more than speculation by a few the police can do no wrong commentators on the cable news networks.
Grey died in custody from injuries that he did not have before he was taken in to custody. That spells the likelihood that somebody did something wrong,

The only speculation here is about what happened and who caused it. I agree that there is a strong likelihood that somebody did something wrong. But it is a big leap from that to proving what was done, who did it, and whether or not it was criminal.

Thus far, there is no indication that the prosecution has any firm facts to prove the case. It is all circumstantial. The guy died, apparently from an injury that somehow happened when he was in the custody of six cops. That's the case, period.

It seems obvious to most people that the cops screwed up. Proving what happened, and that the screw up was criminal, seems highly unlikely, especially given the clear evidence that juries give cops a lot more benefit of the doubt than they do other people.

[Tom]

That spells the likelihood that somebody did something wrong,

And a likelihood is not a fact. It is a cause for an investigation, which is what happened.

But two MORE cops murdered.....where the hell is that rat-bastard Obama. He was quick to shoot his big mouth off about how it seems like cops are killing some homeboys every week. Where is is when it is actually happening, not being imagined, to the cops?

GD BO.

[Clocker]

And a likelihood is not a fact. It is a cause for an investigation, which is what happened.


And it is usually a cause for a DA to present the case to a grand jury for an indictment. The DA did not use a grand jury, but brought charges on her own, one day after the conclusion of her own department's investigation and several hours after the medical report. That could be argued as a violation of the rights of due process.

[PaceAdvantage]

Where was the DOJ when the cops got off with no criminal charges here?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Kelly_Thomas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Kelly_Thomas).

The video if you have seen it is very disturbing as the first cop on the scene threatens Mr. Thomas who is just sitting on a bus bench. It seems the DOJ only cares when black people are wronged, who cares about a white slightly built mentally ill homeless guy.This is a most disturbing case. It seems, from the video and audio available, a pretty clear cut case of murder by police.

How these officers escaped conviction is beyond me.

Luckily, the victim in this case is POOR, MENTALLY ILL and WHITE, so you know there is nobody except his immediate family (and some local community members) who rallied for justice in this case.

Pretty sickening...what am I missing? How did these cops escape the long arm of the justice system?

[TJDave]

Luckily, the victim in this case is POOR, MENTALLY ILL and WHITE

Blacks typically just have to be black.

[Tom]

That seems to go for the perps as well.
B on B crime....common place.

But I know that gets in the way of good rant.

[TJDave]

B on B crime....common place.


Who else lives in the hood?

[cj's dad]

35 murdered in the last 30 days, 19 in the lasr 15. nearly ALL in NW Baltimore, the scene of the riots. No outrage from the mayor or the "community"

[Tom]

Or Bob Costas.

[Robert Goren]

I see a lot of posts referring to Black on Black crime, but I never see a post about White on White crime. Must never happen. :confused: Yeah, right.

[woodtoo]

I see a lot of posts referring to Black on Black crime, but I never see a post about White on White crime. Must never happen. :confused: Yeah, right.
You are correct.

[Marshall Bennett]

White on white crime surely exist, but it's done quietly. :cool:

[Tom]

I see a lot of posts referring to Black on Black crime, but I never see a post about White on White crime. Must never happen. :confused: Yeah, right.
Data?

[newtothegame]

I see a lot of posts referring to Black on Black crime, but I never see a post about White on White crime. Must never happen. :confused: Yeah, right.

Wouldn't know if it does or not, ....there is not this HUGE bombardment of media when whites are killed. Nor are there whole towns being burned down when a white man is killed.....
Guess when whites are killed, it really doesn't matter!!! :faint:

[Marshall Bennett]

Often when whites kill whites it's some sort of crime of passion. One or the other might be a lunatic. Often due to the nature of the crime it makes news.
I haven't heard of many cases where whites go out in the streets shooting up whites almost randomly like a lot of black do in their neighborhoods. Don't hear of many whites shooting cops either, black or white.
It's the media that zeros in on these isolated cases where whites somehow get entangled in crimes generally started by blacks misbehaving. Their revenue is boosted by the stories they generate.
Ultimately whites take the blame when in fact they're barely involved. Somehow it's okay for blacks to be racist and have an attitude, but completely unacceptable for whites to. Seems weird.

[JustRalph]

All that White on White crime is making these beautiful suburbs almost unbearable

*I am spending some time this week in a local hospital, visiting a relative. I have managed to get around the blocking of 'gambling websites' by their router, but it's hit and miss..........

if I have not answered your PM or other communication, I will get to it.

[fast4522]

Except when it bikers killing bikers.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_WACO_SHOOTING?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-05-17-17-16-49

[woodtoo]

Except when it bikers killing bikers.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_WACO_SHOOTING?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-05-17-17-16-49
I hear its like the wild west right now, with gun fights breaking out all over. :eek:

[Marshall Bennett]

I hear its like the wild west right now, with gun fights breaking out all over. :eek:
White trash madness. Clash of rednecks. :)

[JustRalph]

A gang from Colorado came down to settle a score is what I heard on the radio. Whatever that means........

The police must have been tipped off. They were there waiting.

[horses4courses]

A gang from Colorado came down to settle a score is what I heard on the radio. Whatever that means........

The police must have been tipped off. They were there waiting.

Rounded up all those leather-clad white boys like it was a church social. :rolleyes:

[JustRalph]

Rounded up all those leather-clad white boys like it was a church social. :rolleyes:

Compare Waco to Chicago this weekend.......

40 shot in Chi-town since Thursday night

[PaceAdvantage]

Compare Waco to Chicago this weekend.......

40 shot in Chi-town since Thursday nightChicago must be on "Texas Time" when it comes to gun-control laws...oh wait...no they're not...they have some of the strictest gun-control laws around...Democrats need to explain this more.

[Clocker]

Chicago must be on "Texas Time" when it comes to gun-control laws...oh wait...no they're not...they have some of the strictest gun-control laws around...Democrats need to explain this more.

The Dem explanation is that if gun control laws don't work, you obviously need more gun control laws.

Just like if stimulus spending doesn't pump up the economy, you obviously need more stimulus spending.

[cj's dad]

17 shot since thursday, 9 dead, alol but one within 5 miles of Pimlico.

[Marshall Bennett]

Curious as to how many white bikers were shot by black cops in Waco? :D
Even one is totally unacceptable and warrants looting and riots. :)

[horses4courses]

Curious as to how many white bikers were shot by black cops in Waco? :D
Even one is totally unacceptable and warrants looting and riots. :)

Had some, or all, of those bikers been black,
it would have been an entirely different story.

[Inner Dirt]

Chicago must be on "Texas Time" when it comes to gun-control laws...oh wait...no they're not...they have some of the strictest gun-control laws around...Democrats need to explain this more.

Ever since the great recession I figure street gangs eliminated the position of "Gun Law Compliance Officer" to save money. Pretty sure whenever they have time and resources street gangs did their best to comply with gun laws. That additional charge of pulling a drive by with an illegal 10 round clip isn't worth the risk.

[horses4courses]

Ever since the great recession I figure street gangs eliminated the position of "Gun Law Compliance Officer" to save money. Pretty sure whenever they have time and resources street gangs did their best to comply with gun laws. That additional charge of pulling a drive by with an illegal 10 round clip isn't worth the risk.

Indeed.

It always amazes me how some people expect tougher gun control laws
to bring about a magical reduction in shootings and killings in gangland areas.
Of course, when they inevitably do not, they chortle about how ineffective gun control is.
Pathetic.

Gang members and organized crime have an eternal source of firearms.
In order for stricter enforcement to work, all states would have to comply.
The chances of that ever happening are less than zero.

The NRA, and all supporters of 2nd amendment privileges with regard
to firearms, have set the standards. This is what we have to live with.
It's the monster they created.

[PaceAdvantage]

If Gun Control doesn't prevent criminals from easily obtaining weapons, then who exactly is in mind when legislatures craft these laws?

You mean to tell me the intent is to keep guns out of the hands of law-abiding citizens? Because from what you just wrote, that's the only target audience these laws seem to have any effect on...

Again, Democrats...please explain yourselves.

[horses4courses]

If Gun Control doesn't prevent criminals from easily obtaining weapons, then who exactly is in mind when legislatures craft these laws?

You mean to tell me the intent is to keep guns out of the hands of law-abiding citizens? Because from what you just wrote, that's the only target audience these laws seem to have any effect on...

Again, Democrats...please explain yourselves.

Of course, it's an attempt to keep guns out of the wrong hands.
It simply can't work in isolated areas.

[TJDave]

Had some, or all, of those bikers been black,
it would have been an entirely different story.

The Bandidos aren't black. Not white, either. ;)

Good job by the Waco police. A few years back there was a showdown between the Mongols and Palm Springs police. The police backed down.

[Tom]

Of course, it's an attempt to keep guns out of the wrong hands.
It simply can't work in isolated areas.

Like Chicago? :lol:

[tucker6]

Of course, it's an attempt to keep guns out of the wrong hands.
It simply can't work in isolated areas.
I should sue you for the whiplash you just gave to me from your last two posts. Talk about playing all sides!! :faint:

[horses4courses]

Like Chicago? :lol:

Like the USA.
There just happens to be more gang activity in south Chicago.

[TJDave]

Of course, it's an attempt to keep guns out of the wrong hands.

It's an attempt to keep certain guns out of everyone's hands.

[horses4courses]

I should sue you for the whiplash you just gave to me from your last two posts. Talk about playing all sides!! :faint:

Unfortunately, it's like pissing into a gale force wind.

[Tom]

Maybe we should have stronger gang laws.

[Clocker]

The NRA, and all supporters of 2nd amendment privileges with regard
to firearms, have set the standards. This is what we have to live with.
It's the monster they created.

At the risk of beating a dead horsey, the 2nd Amendment does not grant privileges. It recognizes and protects rights that predate the Constitution.

And the problem is not insufficient gun control laws, it is insufficient enforcement of existing laws. DOJ did a survey of convicted criminals who had used guns. They found that about 80% of them had obtained those guns illegally. Empirical evidence shows that stronger enforcement of existing laws works.

Most mass shootings have been done by people with serious mental problems. Many of those shooters had legally obtained fire arms, and should not have been able to. They were able to obtain fire arms because often health authorities, and liberal state governments, refused to comply with federal regulations regarding putting mentally ill people into the background check system.

Laws mean little if they aren't enforced, and thus obeyed only by law-abiding citizens.

[horses4courses]

At the risk of beating a dead horsey, the 2nd Amendment does not grant privileges. It recognizes and protects rights that predate the Constitution.

And the problem is not insufficient gun control laws, it is insufficient enforcement of existing laws. DOJ did a survey of convicted criminals who had used guns. They found that about 80% of them had obtained those guns illegally. Empirical evidence shows that stronger enforcement of existing laws works.

Most mass shootings have been done by people with serious mental problems. Many of those shooters had legally obtained fire arms, and should not have been able to. They were able to obtain fire arms because often health authorities, and liberal state governments, refused to comply with federal regulations regarding putting mentally ill people into the background check system.

Laws mean little if they aren't enforced, and thus obeyed only by law-abiding citizens.

I agree with most of that, except that it's virtually
pointless enforcing gun control under current conditions.

Way too many guns have been manufactured in the US for eons.
Military standard combat weapons are available for purchase by
the general public. That's hard to justify.

One of the main reasons it persists is the profitability
of the arms industry. They carry much clout, both
financially and, consequently, in the political arena.

The age old rallying cry of conservatives (one of many)
when liberals are in power is "they're going to take our guns away".
B.S. - the power of the gun lobby is way too strong for that to happen.

[TJDave]

Military standard combat weapons are available for purchase by
the general public. That's hard to justify.


Not really. Unless you are referring to a sidearm. You would not believe the hurdles one faces to purchase an auto fire weapon. You need to be well connected and wealthy...which excludes the general public.

[Clocker]

Way too many guns have been manufactured in the US for eons.
Military standard combat weapons are available for purchase by
the general public. That's hard to justify.



Many weapons available for purchase by civilians are derived from, and superficially resemble, military weapons. They are quite different functionally. Virtually all laws banning "assault weapons" are based on cosmetic features.

"Way too many guns" is purely subjective, and shows a confusion of supply and demand.

They carry much clout, both
financially and, consequently, in the political arena.

The age old rallying cry of conservatives (one of many)
when liberals are in power is "they're going to take our guns away".
B.S. - the power of the gun lobby is way too strong for that to happen.

The "clout" you mention is based on two things: money and votes. Both come from citizens. The gun lobby doesn't vote, and doesn't have any money unless people buy guns.

And the notion that liberals don't want "to take our guns away" defies reality.

[horses4courses]

the notion that liberals don't want "to take our guns away" defies reality.

Oh, we would love to.
Believing that would be possible defies reality.

[Inner Dirt]

Not really. Unless you are referring to a sidearm. You would not believe the hurdles one faces to purchase an auto fire weapon. You need to be well connected and wealthy...which excludes the general public.

Your typical anti gun liberal does not know the difference between a fully automatic and a semi automatic, they usually just call them all automatics and would not know a single shot to save their lives. When I lived in California and used to have football watching parties I would lay a 9MM S&W on the kitchen counter next to a .177 Co2 pellet pistol telling the anti gun folks to look all they wanted but not touch while identifying the lethal 9mm from the pellet gun and why they chose what they did. 50% got it correct (random chance) and only one (A QC inspector at a manufacturing plant) said he could tell the difference because of the hole size in the barrel. Never is there an argument other than gun control where one side (The gun control nuts) know so little compared to who they are arguing against.

[horses4courses]

Your typical anti gun liberal does not know the difference between a fully automatic and a semi automatic, they usually just call them all automatics and would not know a single shot to save their lives. When I lived in California and used to have football watching parties I would lay a 9MM S&W on the kitchen counter next to a .177 Co2 pellet pistol telling the anti gun folks to look all they wanted but not touch while identifying the lethal 9mm from the pellet gun and why they chose what they did. 50% got it correct (random chance) and only one (A QC inspector at a manufacturing plant) said he could tell the difference because of the hole size in the barrel. Never is there an argument other than gun control where one side (The gun control nuts) know so little compared to who they are arguing against.

Just depends on your priorities, I'm thinking.
It's mostly about your motivation for using and needing them.

[Clocker]

Your typical anti gun liberal does not know the difference between a fully automatic and a semi automatic


Or worse. This from a US Congresswoman from Colorado who wanted to ban "hi-cap" magazines:

Rep. Diana DeGette (D-CO): "I will tell you these are ammunition, they’re bullets, so the people who have those now they’re going to shoot them, so if you ban them in the future, the number of these high capacity magazines is going to decrease dramatically over time because the bullets will have been shot and there won’t be any more available."

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/04/03/co_democrat_doesnt_understand_high-capacity_magazines_can_be_reloaded.html

[TJDave]

Or worse. This from a US Congresswoman from Colorado who wanted to ban "hi-cap" magazines:

I have to believe she was trying to talk about banning ammunition.

I am actually in favor of restricting high capacity magazines...Even though I have a few. ;)

[Inner Dirt]

I have to believe she was trying to talk about banning ammunition.

I am actually in favor of restricting high capacity magazines...Even though I have a few. ;)

Please explain why that makes sense, I never had quick hand speed and have sausage fingers, yet I can easily change out a clip or magazine in under 3 seconds, the distance a normal human can run 20 yards. A person with nimble hands can change them out in a second, if you don't believe me just watch You Tube. Also as always a criminal does not give a crap about laws, funny how liberals cannot figure that out.

[TJDave]

LE should get them, period. Also, if I were to defend myself I would prefer my opponent to have fewer chances to get lucky.

[Clocker]

Also, if I were to defend myself I would prefer my opponent to have fewer chances to get lucky.

Easy for you to say, since you already have yours. :cool:

[horses4courses]

the distance a normal human can run 20 yards. Also as always a criminal does not give a crap about laws, funny how liberals cannot figure that out.

It's pretty easy to figure out the law when someone is running away.
Even for a liberal........ :rolleyes:

[Clocker]

It's pretty easy to figure out the law when someone is running away.
Even for a liberal........ :rolleyes:

The issue is when someone is running at you, with malice aforethought. :rolleyes:

[horses4courses]

The issue is when someone is running at you, with malice aforethought. :rolleyes:

That definitely was not stipulated.
A criminal facing him 20 yards away would probably shoot him. :rolleyes:

[Clocker]

That definitely was not stipulated.
A criminal facing him 20 yards away would probably shoot him. :rolleyes:

The criminal being armed definitely was not stipulated. :p

[TJDave]

Easy for you to say, since you already have yours. :cool:

Well, I'm certainly not looking for a fair fight. ;)

[Clocker]

Well, I'm certainly not looking for a fair fight. ;)

If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, you have not prepared properly.

[Robert Goren]

At the risk of beating a dead horsey, the 2nd Amendment does not grant privileges. It recognizes and protects rights that predate the Constitution.

And the problem is not insufficient gun control laws, it is insufficient enforcement of existing laws. DOJ did a survey of convicted criminals who had used guns. They found that about 80% of them had obtained those guns illegally. Empirical evidence shows that stronger enforcement of existing laws works.

Most mass shootings have been done by people with serious mental problems. Many of those shooters had legally obtained fire arms, and should not have been able to. They were able to obtain fire arms because often health authorities, and liberal state governments, refused to comply with federal regulations regarding putting mentally ill people into the background check system.

Laws mean little if they aren't enforced, and thus obeyed only by law-abiding citizens.This is absolutely true. From what I see, there is next to no effort to put an end to the illegal gun trade in the United States and what little effort being done is soundly criticized by second amendment groups. Not many politicians in today's political environment is going vote to authorize the spending of money to put the illegal gun dealers out of business.

[Tom]

The volume of illegal guns should drop sharply now that Holder has retired.

[Inner Dirt]

I should have explained my 20 yard comment. I guess you all aren't mind readers. It was directed at those that think if no one has more than a 7 round clip which I believe is a new law in a few states that a lot of lives will be saved. My point was even with fumble fingers I can pull a clip out of my pocket and swap it out in the time a person trying to flee can get 20 yards. The point made is a psycho with a rifle in a crowded area can shoot almost as many people if he had 4 seven round clips or one 30 rounder.

[TJDave]

The point made is a psycho with a rifle in a crowded area can shoot almost as many people if he had 4 seven round clips or one 30 rounder.

That is one argument. Another is that the difference between 7 and 30 leaves 23 more chances to kill people to begin with.

Most of my handguns are 7 or 8+1 and I'm very comfortable with that.

[Clocker]

That is one argument. Another is that the difference between 7 and 30 leaves 23 more chances to kill people to begin with.

Most of my handguns are 7 or 8+1 and I'm very comfortable with that.

I could get by buying 7 or 8 gallons of gas at a time too, but I usually fill it up just in case I need it.

[Tom]

Suppose you own a CVS store in a seedy neighborhood, and one day, the locals get PO'd about something or other and try to rob and torch your business? Or a gang of marauding bikers comes to town shooting up the place, and you only have 7 shots?

[TJDave]

I could get by buying 7 or 8 gallons of gas at a time too, but I usually fill it up just in case I need it.

7-8 is a full tank. And the .45 ACP gets great mileage. One will do.

[TJDave]

Or a gang of marauding bikers comes to town shooting up the place, and you only have 7 shots?

What if you had 18 shots and there were 19 bikers?

[PhantomOnTour]

What if you had 18 shots and there were 19 bikers?
:lol: couldn't have said it better myself

[Clocker]

What if you had 18 shots and there were 19 bikers?

That's why they invented the New York reload. :p

[Tom]

18 + Bayonet

[PhantomOnTour]

18 + Bayonet
:lol: I couldn't have said that better myself either

[Clocker]

18 + Bayonet

Just having a bayonet mount makes it an illegal "assault weapon" in certain moonbat states. :eek:

[johnhannibalsmith]

Once you drop the two loudmouths in front, the rest will be gone with or without free Charmin.

[JustRalph]

That is one argument. Another is that the difference between 7 and 30 leaves 23 more chances to kill people to begin with.

Most of my handguns are 7 or 8+1 and I'm very comfortable with that.

As long as the bad guys have access to larger mags....... I want them!

I carry 14 every day in one mag.........for a reason..........

[Inner Dirt]

Funny my personal issue with not being against larger magazines was for target practice or random shooting of intimate objects. It would be nice to just load your magazine while watching a ball game on the couch and not in the field. The fewer clips you have to carry the better. The only flesh and blood animal I have ever shot was the occasional poisonous snake that had the nerve of showing up on my property. The only other times I was happy to be armed was running across the occasional bear in the Southern California mountains, they ran away with out the need to fire a shot.

I don't even think about my guns for self defense now I live in the middle of the woods in central Virginia. You would have to be the dumbest criminal in the world to try to break in a house here, everyone owns guns, you hear gunfire daily from people target practicing and hunters. Lately I have killed a computer tower, and a water heater (how else was I going to drain the water out of the old one?)

[cj]

Funny my personal issue with not being against larger magazines was for target practice or random shooting of intimate objects. It would be nice to just load your magazine while watching a ball game on the couch and not in the field. The fewer clips you have to carry the better. The only flesh and blood animal I have ever shot was the occasional poisonous snake that had the nerve of showing up on my property. The only other times I was happy to be armed was running across the occasional bear in the Southern California mountains, they ran away with out the need to fire a shot.

I don't even think about my guns for self defense now I live in the middle of the woods in central Virginia. You would have to be the dumbest criminal in the world to try to break in a house here, everyone owns guns, you hear gunfire daily from people target practicing and hunters. Lately I have killed a computer tower, and a water heater (how else was I going to drain the water out of the old one?)

I have a few computers in the garage I'd like to shoot.

[Inner Dirt]

I have a few computers in the garage I'd like to shoot.

Don't use standard .22LR rounds you will just wound it and hear it cry in pain. I shot a hard drive with one at 20 yards and it didn't even go all the way through. Unlike your average anti gun liberal I get my ballistic and gun knowledge from actual experience and not watching movies.

I did belong to a online sports forum with a mostly liberal membership. There was a lot of off topic discussion, whenever gun issues were discussed most all of them believed Hollywood BS. Examples, most believed typical pistol rounds were just as dangerous if thrown in a fire than if fired through a gun. A shot from a .357 at center mass can propel a full gown man several yards backward at a high rate of speed. You will be safe hiding behind a car door if someone is shooting at you with a hunting rifle.

And those are the kind of people who want more gun laws?

[cj's dad]

The "community" has really learned a lot from the recent love fest following the riots. As of May 15th, there have been 100 murders in the city as compared to 71 at the same time last year. Naerly ALL black on black. And the beat goes on !!

[davew]

The "community" has really learned a lot from the recent love fest following the riots. As of May 15th, there have been 100 murders in the city as compared to 71 at the same time last year. Naerly ALL black on black. And the beat goes on !!



need to start a new campaign


Black Lives Matter

(unless killed by another black)

[woodtoo]

27 people shot so far in Baltimore over the Memorial long weekend creates
May as the deadliest month since 1999, 35 dead. pop. 620,000.

Winnipeg, where I reside is often referred to as the murder capitol of Canada
35 is about yearly average. pop. under 800,000.

All I can say is WOW.

[Marshall Bennett]

Winnipeg, where I reside is often referred to as the murder capitol of Canada
35 is about yearly average. pop. under 800,000
What percentage of Winnipeg is black? Just curious. :cool:

[woodtoo]

We have a higher than normal # of Aboriginals (native Indian) and a recent
influx of Somalians ,who make up a gang element in the core.
All in all probably 5 % black. Just sayin. ;)

[Hank]

Clever lads :lol: :lol:

[cj's dad]

need to start a new campaign


Black Lives Matter

(unless killed by another black)

The people being killed here are almost exclusively SCUM. Drug dealers, drug users, pimps, fugitives, etc... Nobody really cares, including me. I hope the killing continues

[Tom]

I heard an interview on CNN this morning where they are demonstrating in Baltimore today because arrests are down 50% and cops are not stopping the rising crime rate.




Duh?!

:lol::lol::lol:

[JustRalph]

I heard an interview on CNN this morning where they are demonstrating in Baltimore today because arrests are down 50% and cops are not stopping the rising crime rate.




Duh?!

:lol::lol::lol:

I said the cops would react. They sure are. Lots of police cars sitting around idling I bet.

This is going to get worse.

[cj's dad]

I said the cops would react. They sure are. Lots of police cars sitting around idling I bet.

This is going to get worse.Just wait 'til most if not all are acquitted from the death of poor outstanding citizen Freddie Gray. I know one cop(25 years on the job) who has his retirement papers drawn up and will submit them the day the case goes to trial.

[horses4courses]

I know one cop(25 years on the job) who has his retirement papers drawn up and will submit them the day the case goes to trial.

What does that prove, exactly?

[cj's dad]

What does that prove, exactly?

I'll try to make it simple for you. It means that when most, if not all, are acquitted, rioting will commence. He told me he wants no part of being on duty and not being able to respond to rock and bottle throwing from these animals. Hope that helps !

[TJDave]

I said the cops would react. They sure are. Lots of police cars sitting around idling I bet.

This is going to get worse.

Will someone please cue the Attorney General? ;)

[horses4courses]

I'll try to make it simple for you. It means that when most, if not all, are acquitted, rioting will commence. He told me he wants no part of being on duty and not being able to respond to rock and bottle throwing from these animals. Hope that helps !

You mean to say that, after 25 years on the Baltimore police force,
this man is prepared to wait around, and base his retirement plans
on the outcome of this trial?

So, he'll stick around if they're all found guilty.....nice. :rolleyes:

[JustRalph]

You mean to say that, after 25 years on the Baltimore police force,
this man is prepared to wait around, and base his retirement plans
on the outcome of this trial?

So, he'll stick around if they're all found guilty.....nice. :rolleyes:

This shows how out of touch you are with what these guys put up with.

[TJDave]

This shows how out of touch you are with what these guys put up with.

And they had no clue?

Just like someone who earns a degree in education, employment as a teacher and then complains about the low pay and bureaucracy.

There have been major problems in our cities for more than 50 years. You and I know it...but the cops didn't?

[Clocker]

And they had no clue?


There have been major problems in our cities for more than 50 years. You and I know it...but the cops didn't?

I'm guessing that when most of today's veteran cops joined the force, they had the support and respect of their local government. It's bad enough dealing with hostile thugs and media (oops, was that redundant?), but now in many places even the local administration is anti-cop.

Back in the day when big liberal-run cities like Chicago and Detroit were still functional, city leaders considered the cops as part of the team. The next generation of liberals seems to more and more distrustful of cops, and generally assume them guilty until proven innocent.

[horses4courses]

This shows how out of touch you are with what these guys put up with.

What you think of me is totally irrelevant.

If the man already has 25 years of public service,
why would he be waiting around?

[TJDave]

I'm guessing that when most of today's veteran cops joined the force, they had the support and respect of their local government.

It's been eroding since Miranda. Before most of these lifers were born.

[JustRalph]

What you think of me is totally irrelevant.

If the man already has 25 years of public service,
why would he be waiting around?

Because they incentivize them to stay. In Ohio they have a program called "Drop"
https://www.op-f.org/Members/DropInformation.aspx

Many departments are paying nice money for 25 yr eligible officers to stay an extra five years by paying for their "Drop" contribution. I have a friend who just entered the program at the 25 yr mark. The city he works for is paying over 4k a month into the program for him to stay. That's 240k plus interest for him if he stays an extra five years. Needless to say he is staying.

He is a school resource officer who has a crap load of training certifications. He teaches a ton of courses. The city thinks it will be to their advantage to keep him five more years rather than replace him. This is just one example of how cities keep their most valuable. But it is also very hard on these guys because it's a young mans game. Doing the job at 50-60 years old can be tough.

Working a riot at that age? I cannot imagine

[horses4courses]

Because they incentivize them to stay. In Ohio they have a program called "Drop"
https://www.op-f.org/Members/DropInformation.aspx

Many departments are paying nice money for 25 yr eligible officers to stay an extra five years by paying for their "Drop" contribution. I have a friend who just entered the program at the 25 yr mark. The city he works for is paying over 4k a month into the program for him to stay. That's 240k plus interest for him if he stays an extra five years. Needless to say he is staying.

He is a school resource officer who has a crap load of training certifications. He teaches a ton of courses. The city thinks it will be to their advantage to keep him five more years rather than replace him. This is just one example of how cities keep their most valuable. But it is also very hard on these guys because it's a young mans game. Doing the job at 50-60 years old can be tough.

Working a riot at that age? I cannot imagine

Thank you, JR
That puts a different light on the subject,
and makes it logical that he wants to stay.

[cj's dad]

Thank you, JR
That puts a different light on the subject,
and makes it logical that he wants to stay.

Not in Baltimore! Why would he stay? baltimore has turned into a city of good 'hoods vs. bad hoods. LEO's i know hate being assigned to the latter. A fact of life is that most if almost exclusively all of the "bad" ' hoods are primarily Af-American. Nearly all of the murders committed in the city are black-on black. Why would any LEO have to justify retiring at 25 years of service when in the near future there is an imminent threat of massive looting and rioting. Liberals have to get their head out of their ass and realize that there are seriously bad people in the inner cities who have zero stake in the cities future.

Drug dealers. pimps, proses, and the like may all of you go to hell and suffer a brutal death.

[Marshall Bennett]

Liberals have to get their head out of their ass and realize that there are seriously bad people in the inner cities who have zero stake in the cities future.

They need their votes every four years. Leave them be. :)

[Clocker]

There were 29 people shot in Baltimore over the week end, with 9 dead. The White House says the answer is stricter gun control laws. Maryland already has some of the strictest gun controls in the country, including fingerprinting of buyers, a seven day waiting period and background checks even for private sales.

Never let a crisis go to waste.

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2015/05/27/seriously-white-house-suggests-more-gun-control-in-baltimore-after-bloody-memorial-day-weekend-n2004194?utm_source=BreakingOnTownhallWidget_4&utm_medium=story&utm_campaign=BreakingOnTownhall

[Robert Goren]

There were 29 people shot in Baltimore over the week end, with 9 dead. The White House says the answer is stricter gun control laws. Maryland already has some of the strictest gun controls in the country, including fingerprinting of buyers, a seven day waiting period and background checks even for private sales.

Never let a crisis go to waste.

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2015/05/27/seriously-white-house-suggests-more-gun-control-in-baltimore-after-bloody-memorial-day-weekend-n2004194?utm_source=BreakingOnTownhallWidget_4&utm_medium=story&utm_campaign=BreakingOnTownhallTough local laws don't work when they don't enforce them. They also don't work when there is an area close by that does not have tough laws. What does not work is just sending people to prison. The US has a larger % of its population in jail than almost any place in the world, but we still have very high crime rates.

[Rise Over Run]

Tough local laws don't work when they don't enforce them. Like the Baltimore knife law that was enforced by LEO and the reason for Freddie's arrest, and then subsequently incorrectly reported as a legal knife by the DA???

[JustRalph]

Tough local laws don't work when they don't enforce them. They also don't work when there is an area close by that does not have tough laws. What does not work is just sending people to prison. The US has a larger % of its population in jail than almost any place in the world, but we still have very high crime rates.


More of the same......... :bang: when an entire culture of people puts no value on each other's lives......or any lives for that matter......you end up with a Detroit and Baltimore like existence that the left created.

[cj's dad]

More of the same......... :bang: when an entire culture of people puts no value on each other's lives......or any lives for that matter......you end up with a Detroit and Baltimore like existence that the left created.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-md-ci-gridlock-20150526-story.ht

Two days ago, blacks on the west side were bitching about lack of police presence (arrests down 50% since the "riots"). Now they decide to block a major access road to downtown Baltimore which tied up traffic for 2+ hours, because the governor signed a bill providing $30M for the building of a youth detention center.

So, these morons want the police to arrest more folks but don't want a new facility built. Genius !

[Clocker]

So, these morons want the police to arrest more folks but don't want a new facility built. Genius !


Maybe they could just put them all under house arrest! :p

[JustRalph]

http://www.breitbart.com/video/2015/05/26/baltimore-residents-we-dont-think-the-police-are-actively-doing-their-jobs/

Now they bitch........

Hysterical fools

[Clocker]

http://www.breitbart.com/video/2015/05/26/baltimore-residents-we-dont-think-the-police-are-actively-doing-their-jobs/

Now they bitch........

Hysterical fools

I'm guessing that the police are taking a lot more time and effort in everything they do now in order to cover their butts. Lots of other cops called in to witness an arrest, no arrests unless the probable cause is bullet-proof, etc.

[Marshall Bennett]

More of the same......... :bang: when an entire culture of people puts no value on each other's lives......or any lives for that matter......you end up with a Detroit and Baltimore like existence that the left created.
And white-trash that escapes...and joins ISIS. :D

[JustRalph]

And white-trash that escapes...and joins ISIS. :D

that's a whole different kettle of fish. Much more odd in my opine

[JustRalph]

hello!! No shit...........


http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2015/05/28/baltimore-residents-fearful-amid-rash-of-homicides/


"BALTIMORE (AP) — Antoinette Perrine has barricaded her front door since her brother was killed three weeks ago on a basketball court near her home in the Harlem Park neighborhood of West Baltimore.
She already has iron bars outside her windows and added metal slabs on the inside to deflect the gunfire.
“I’m afraid to go outside,” said Perrine, 47. “It’s so bad, people are afraid to let their kids outside. People wake up with shots through their windows. Police used to sit on every corner, on the top of the block. These days? They’re nowhere.”

I told you they would react......... this is going to get worse.......

[Tom]

Be careful what you wish for.

[cj's dad]

Bartimore.png (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=&stc=1)

[Clocker]

you end up with a Detroit and Baltimore like existence that the left created.

Thomas Sowell looks at violence in the black community (being black, he can still call it the ghetto without being racist) before and after the big expansion of the welfare state.

Black poverty and white racism, the supposed causes of violence, were much worse in the period up to the 1960's. But there were no riots, there was less violent crime, and black on black murder rates were going down. Despite less black poverty and less white racism, the violence is getting worse. Why?


Most black children were raised in two-parent families prior to the 1960s. But today the great majority of black children are raised in one-parent families.


You cannot take any people, of any color, and exempt them from the requirements of civilization — including work, behavioral standards, personal responsibility, and all the other basic things that the clever intelligentsia disdain — without ruinous consequences to them and to society at large.

Non-judgmental subsidies of counterproductive lifestyles are treating people as if they were livestock, to be fed and tended by others in a welfare state — and yet expecting them to develop as human beings have developed when facing the challenges of life themselves.

One key fact that keeps getting ignored is that the poverty rate among black married couples has been in single digits every year since 1994. Behavior matters and facts matter, more than the prevailing social visions or political empires built on those visions.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/417899/inconvenient-truth-about-ghetto-communities-social-breakdown-thomas-sowell?target=topic&tid=3813

[Marshall Bennett]

Thomas Sowell looks at violence in the black community (being black, he can still call it the ghetto without being racist) before and after the big expansion of the welfare state.

Black poverty and white racism, the supposed causes of violence, were much worse in the period up to the 1960's. But there were no riots, there was less violent crime, and black on black murder rates were going down. Despite less black poverty and less white racism, the violence is getting worse. Why?
The hate and bitterness runs much deeper now. Blacks have failed in advancing as MLK designed in his "dream". Blacks in the 50's and 60's lived through their social position. They dealt with it.
Many blacks have achieved satisfaction through hard work. They don't cling to past history and took advantage of opportunity. However, they are few and far between. The gutter variety that's plaguing the inner cities, using violence to vent their hatred of whites, are becoming more and more representative of the entire black race They are the news-makers and evilness that's destroying large cities like Detroit.
I'm not prejudice against the black race entirely, but this huge portion of it I am and as I see it, for good reason.

[Tom]

Worse month for murders in the city since 1997 I heard today.
But cops are not doing it, so I guess it doesn't matter.

[JustRalph]

The hate and bitterness runs much deeper now. Blacks have failed in advancing as MLK designed in his "dream". Blacks in the 50's and 60's lived through their social position. They dealt with it.
Many blacks have achieved satisfaction through hard work. They don't cling to past history and took advantage of opportunity. However, they are few and far between. The gutter variety that's plaguing the inner cities, using violence to vent their hatred of whites, are becoming more and more representative of the entire black race They are the news-makers and evilness that's destroying large cities like Detroit.
I'm not prejudice against the black race entirely, but this huge portion of it I am and as I see it, for good reason.

Trying to referee fights and threats between the Hispanic employees and the black employees in my wife's business is becoming somewhat revealing to me. I hear many of the same points you make from many here in Houston.

[cj's dad]

Worse month for murders in the city since 1997 I heard today.
But cops are not doing it, so I guess it doesn't matter.

38 murders in the month of May and the month is 3 days from being over. The city I was born and raised is approaching the murder rates that were in the 500's annually not too long ago. I really think it is time for me to get the hell out of here. I have two options; one in Texas and one in Oklahoma. I probably have a better chance of surviving a tornado than being randomly shot to death.

There was a story on the news tonight of a young woman and her 7 year old son being murdered in the woman's home. Both were killed execution style. What I found most disturbing was that the 7 year old was shot in the head at point blank range. A 7 year old? I cannot grasp that !!

[JustRalph]

The same people who were protesting to have the police leave their neighborhoods a month ago are now whining because they can't leave their homes.

You got what you wanted. Welcome to the law of the jungle

[JustRalph]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/05/28/two-tweets-favorited-by-personal-twitter-account-of-prosecutor-in-freddie-gray-case-force-govt-to-respond/

Oops........she must have been hacked...........

This could be very interesting. She might be tossed off the case. If I was the defense I would be howling about this

[woodtoo]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/05/28/two-tweets-favorited-by-personal-twitter-account-of-prosecutor-in-freddie-gray-case-force-govt-to-respond/

Oops........she must have been hacked...........

This could be very interesting. She might be tossed off the case. If I was the defense I would be howling about this
Hacked,right. And all they do is "like" two tweets,must be the most incompetent hackers since the ones that hacked Anthony Wieners' account. :lol:

[woodtoo]

Getting tossed from this case would be a career saver for her, and she probably doesn't even realize it.

[cj's dad]

What is known here in political circles is that Mosby is friends with Billy Murphy, the attorney for the Grays. Billy Murphy (BM- how appropo) was a judge here and B'more 15-20 years ago. He was removed from the bench because he was a drug addict (heroin). He also handed down more severe penalties to white defendants in many cases than the guidelines called for. He is a known racist as apparently is Mosby.

[Robert Fischer]

All of the drama is interesting in it's own right, but have we moved toward any systemic improvements?


Have cameras been installed in the back of police transport units yet? Have plans for such camera installations even been made yet?

Without systemic improvements, it's all a joke. It boils down to entertainment for democrats and republicans.

Incentives are not there.
This is why cameras are mounted (and on + working) on nearly every intersection stoplight, but almost none of the police dash/uniform/transport-units.
Incentives. Plain and simple.

Unless citizens actually understand the system and care to make systemic improvements - thus making their support for systemic improvements the 'incentive', ... this is nothing but entertainment.

[Tom]

Instead of me paying to put cameras on cops, who I trust, let those who do not trust them buy their own cameras and wear them.

Cops seem to have right idea, though - screw them all - just don't show up anymore.

They hate cops, let them live with out them (or die without them).

Baltimore's problems are not mine.
I will just never go there again.
Stick someone who gives a crap with the bill.

[Robert Fischer]

Instead of me paying to put cameras on cops, who I trust, let those who do not trust them buy their own cameras and wear them.

Cops seem to have right idea, though - screw them all - just don't show up anymore.

They hate cops, let them live with out them (or die without them).

Baltimore's problems are not mine.
I will just never go there again.
Stick someone who gives a crap with the bill.

I agree, but then we should be honest with the media broadcast and adjust what we deem 'politically correct'.

Change the motto to " To Protect and Serve the Businesses and their influx of middle-class consumers and middle-class workers, and finally the locals whenever possible".

Lets be more honest about the flow of capital.
We have 2 million mcdonalds(not counting burger king, wendys etc) workers, 2 million walmart(not counting kmart etc..) workers, 2 million+ armed forces workers, almost 7 million incarcerated, 1 million police officers, and all the judicial stuff...

All of this stuff is 'for-profit' regardless of what is announced. All of this stuff has very strong incentives behind it for those who profit from it.

There are no incentives to better education or success of 'working class' citizens of Baltimore.

In fact educating them is 'disincentivized'.


So why should I be expected to care about the losers in our economic system when I don't?
Why can't we just say the truth then?

There's this double standard where we project the message that we actually care about the losers in our system.

Let's change the politically correct propaganda, and openly disregard them.

Isn't that better than pretending to care for them?

[Rise Over Run]

Stick someone who gives a crab with the bill.
FTFY :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Tom]

I got that right away! :lol:

[Inner Dirt]

Instead of me paying to put cameras on cops, who I trust, let those who do not trust them buy their own cameras and wear them.

Cops seem to have right idea, though - screw them all - just don't show up anymore.

They hate cops, let them live with out them (or die without them).

Baltimore's problems are not mine.
I will just never go there again.
Stick someone who gives a crap with the bill.

I have known too many cops personally including my own father who weren't good people, pretty sure a lot of them can't be trusted, that is beside the point. The cameras will pay for themselves, many lawsuits against the police are settled because it made economic sense, not because the supposed victim had an open and shut case. Show the alleged victim's lawyer a film of his client in the wrong, lawsuit dropped, case dismissed.

"Smile!, you're on camera," is going to encourage better behavior from both sides in most cases. They protect everyone except those who break the law.

[davew]

I like the new strategy of letting the thugs take out the thugs and put away forever (in a box). The collateral damage is sad, but many are relatives of thugs.

[JustRalph]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-new-nationwide-crime-wave-1432938425

Check out this piece......... incredible stuff.

The Ferguson effect

[Clocker]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-new-nationwide-crime-wave-1432938425

Check out this piece......... incredible stuff.

The Ferguson effect

The link is behind the WSJ pay wall. To read the article if you don't have a WSJ account, Goggle "New Nationwide Crime Wave" and click on the link with that name.

[JustRalph]

The link is behind the WSJ pay wall. To read the article if you don't have a WSJ account, Goggle "New Nationwide Crime Wave" and click on the link with that name.


This is the 2nd time this has happen. I am not a paying member so I don't understand how I can read it ? Sorry for the problem.

It's a great piece

[Clocker]

This is the 2nd time this has happen. I am not a paying member so I don't understand how I can read it ?

WSJ just likes you better. :p

I assume you got there via a link on another site. That site might have a different arrangement with WSJ, or somehow built a work-around.

[cj's dad]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRjMcTUjzsNyeUQa3XA0Rz0KcNz_RYUc bcLszyPTOIlnF1mPcF2
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSeTM3Hf8jISkzxw3daLGKSzWg6VuJOY IQQeD6HUG3MNPdcKpSEnA
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQHJ0VIr3_49nwsb8_NzEd0BV6qq3l_D a0kl1NmgKMwgT7DZ_9jLg

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTGW2mQHCeHpn8uMonYBs7OZhK_IwK8S ontn5ibBz7R5URCP8A4pA

[cj's dad]

38 murders in the month of May and the month is 3 days from being over. The city I was born and raised is approaching the murder rates that were in the 500's annually not too long ago. I really think it is time for me to get the hell out of here. I have two options; one in Texas and one in Oklahoma. I probably have a better chance of surviving a tornado than being randomly shot to death.

There was a story on the news tonight of a young woman and her 7 year old son being murdered in the woman's home. Both were killed execution style. What I found most disturbing was that the 7 year old was shot in the head at point blank range. A 7 year old? I cannot grasp that !!

The murder rate for this month has now hit 40, Congrats to the people of NW Baltimore. Keep up the good work. Drug dealers. Pimps. Prosses and drug dealers/ users eliminated daily. Yahoo !!!!:ThmbUp:

[JustRalph]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/05/30/baltimore-prosecutor-marilyn-mosby-in-the-spotlight-again-pumping-up-a-crowd-at-a-venue-that-might-surprise-you/

She is milking it

[woodtoo]

43 dead in month of May breaks 40 year record.

Wonder if the robbery's of over 20 pharmacies' had anything to do with it?

[cj's dad]

43 dead in month of May breaks 40 year record.

Wonder if the robbery's of over 20 pharmacies' had anything to do with it?

There was a strong push approaching midnight to break the record.

[PhantomOnTour]

There was a strong push approaching midnight to break the record.
They called in their ace closer and he "retired" the last three to put them over the mark and into the record books!
:lol: :lol:

[Tom]

Population-wise, this would be over 500 in NYC.

Black lives don't matter to Black people.
Where is Obama?

[cj's dad]

Population-wise, this would be over 500 in NYC.

Black lives don't matter to Black people.
Where is Obama?

Tom, I did some research and came up with the following:

NYC-population= 8,491,079
Baltimore-population=622,793 NYC has 13.63 more citizens than does Baltimore.
Baltimore has 118 murders to date. Proportionately NYC would have 1608 murders for the year at Baltimore's present rate.

I have attached an interesting link which shows the location of murders in the city. Note that most are in the NW & NE sections of the city which is overwhelmingly Black. Many are in the area of Pimlico race track, How much longer do you think it will stay open? If something drastic is not done I say it will close within 5 years at most. I live in Brooklyn which has had one murder this year. Curtis Bay is adjacent to Brooklyn. That area has 4 murders so far.

http://chamspage.blogspot.com/2014/12/2015-baltimore-city-homicidesmurders.html

[woodtoo]

Their dropping like flies ...in the Mayors office her 4 highest ranking cabinet members have resigned in the last 3 weeks, no reasons given.

The writing is on the wall that the Feds will be taking control of BPD.
This is who benefits from this, Obola, he now has fairly big base to set up
his "civilian " military that he promised so many moons ago.

[Clocker]

From the Baltimore Sun:

Baltimore State's Attorney Marilyn Mosby plans to seek a protective order that would block the release of Freddie Gray's autopsy report and other "sensitive" documents as she prosecutes the six police officers involved in his arrest.Mosby told The Baltimore Sun that prosecutors "have a duty to ensure a fair and impartial process for all parties involved" and "will not be baited into litigating this case through the media."

But an attorney for one of the officers said the effort shows that "there is something in that autopsy report that they are trying to hide."




Baltimore's chief prosecutor declared her intention to seek the protective order in a court filing Monday. She also asked for more time to respond to defense motions that she and her office be removed from the case and that the case be tried outside Baltimore.

The move is the latest effort by Mosby's office to restrict information in the high-profile case. Her office has also sought a gag order to prevent participants from discussing the case in public, and has broken with a long-standing practice by not giving a copy of the autopsy report to Baltimore police.

In a response to Mosby's latest filing, defense attorneys said Wednesday that they have been denied an outline of evidence and claims against the officers, and have not been allowed to inspect a knife that was taken from Gray during his arrest.



http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/blog/bs-md-ci-gray-protective-order-20150603-story.html#page=1

[Saratoga_Mike]

Tom, I did some research and came up with the following:

NYC-population= 8,491,079
Baltimore-population=622,793 NYC has 13.63 more citizens than does Baltimore.
Baltimore has 118 murders to date. Proportionately NYC would have 1608 murders for the year at Baltimore's present rate.

http://chamspage.blogspot.com/2014/12/2015-baltimore-city-homicidesmurders.html

And the number in NYC was in that neighborhood during Mayor Dinkins' last year in office.

[woodtoo]

43 dead in month of May breaks 40 year record.

Wonder if the robbery's of over 20 pharmacies' had anything to do with it?
Police Chief Anthony Batts has confirmed pharmacy looting is to blame for spike in violent crime.

The DEA is asking for the Publics help in ID'ing looters.
They just forgot to inform the staff manning the phones, apparently they
have no idea about this program. :bang:

[Clocker]

Will the last police official to leave Baltimore please turn out the lights.

In a span of just over two weeks, Baltimore Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake saw five top-level criminal justice staffers resign from their posts during a time when the city is experiencing its worst crime wave since the 1970s. By the end of May, four were gone in a week, starting with head of Office of Nonviolent Programs, LeVar Michael. Following him was the Director of the Criminal Justice Office, Angela Johnese. Then Heather Brantner who was a coordinator for Rawlings-Blake's Sexual Assault Response Team. In that week's final blow, the mayor's deputy director, Shannon Cosgrove, announced her departure. Amazingly, according to Legal Insurrection, not one reason was given for any one of these resignations. They just abruptly left.



http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/baltimore-mayor-loses-5-criminal-justice-staffers

[woodtoo]

Wonder who leaked this email?
Sent from Marilyn Mosby's' S.A. office weeks prior to the event, begin a
"daily narcotics initiative" focusing on the exact corner.Not saying that is a bad thing, but maybe back up the officers you directed there, instead she
charges all 6 with murder.

No wonder police are afraid to do their jobs, damned if you do and damned
if you don't.

[JustRalph]

http://hotair.com/archives/2015/06/10/baltimore-cops-on-soaring-crime-rate-the-public-wanted-a-softer-police-force-and-now-theyve-got-it/

Softer police

[PhantomOnTour]

If you're not breaking the law then you have nothing to worry about.

That applies to Freddie Gray and the police.

[MONEY]

If you're not breaking the law then you have nothing to worry about.
Not true.

When I was a teenager in the South Bronx, I was beat up on two occasions by cops.

The 1st time, I was crossing the street and took two quick steps to avoid getting run over by a car that came screeching around the corner. It turned out that the car that I was avoiding was an unmarked police car & the offense that bought me the beating was "running while black".

The second time I was returning from buying groceries for an old woman that we all called Grandma Hernandez. I have no idea why I was beaten up this time, but had the neighbors not gotten the cops off of me, I believe that they would have killed me.

I was not arrested in either of the two incidents.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Not true.

...

To take it farther, it may be the most erroneous old saying still going strong.

[JustRalph]

Not true.

When I was a teenager in the South Bronx, I was beat up on two occasions by cops.

The 1st time, I was crossing the street and took two quick steps to avoid getting run over by a car that came screeching around the corner. It turned out that the car that I was avoiding was an unmarked police car & the offense that bought me the beating was "running while black".

The second time I was returning from buying groceries for an old woman that we all called Grandma Hernandez. I have no idea why I was beaten up this time, but had the neighbors not gotten the cops off of me, I believe that they would have killed me.

I was not arrested in either of the two incidents.

That was criminal. I am going to guess the sixties?

[hcap]

That was criminal. I am going to guess the sixties?I am going to guess stupid racist cops during the sixties?

[cj's dad]

I am going to guess stupid racist cops during the sixties?

If that is supposed to be a cheap shot at Ralph (he was a LEO) it is uncalled for. Ralph is too young to have been on the force in the 60's. I know that you will deny what I have posted but I believe you to be a top ranked cheap shot artist.

[MONEY]

That was criminal. I am going to guess the sixties?
You are right, late 60s.

[Tom]

Some here are still living in the 60s.

[PaceAdvantage]

http://hotair.com/archives/2015/06/10/baltimore-cops-on-soaring-crime-rate-the-public-wanted-a-softer-police-force-and-now-theyve-got-it/

Softer policeExactly what I wrote about in that other thread just now.

This will become a nationwide phenomenon...good luck to those who preach stricter anti-gun laws for law-abiding people...

[JustRalph]

You are right, late 60s.

Extraordinarily turbulent time period for cops and the anti-establishment types. Lots of innocent people got caught up in the turbulence. Things really started to change in the mid to late 80's. The generational differences etc were part of it. The move to try and make policing a profession began then.

Those same guys who assaulted you , were hopefully retiring etc. I got my first badge in 82. It was a different world. I was working in Socal and watching it change over was interesting. There were about 3 different types of cops out there for a while.

[Tom]

They kept calling guys with batons and guns "pigs" and then whined when they got a wood shampoo. They was lucky.

[JustRalph]

Mosby appeals release of Freddie Gray autopsy, again. Wants a full gag order.

I'm starting to think they are trying to hide something big.........

[Clocker]

Mosby appeals release of Freddie Gray autopsy, again. Wants a full gag order.

I'm starting to think they are trying to hide something big.........

I think they are hiding the fact that they have a great big zero case. They are stalling while trying to come up with anything that will save a little face. If they can convict one cop of one crime, it would be a big win.

And if they can't, the thugs come out to play.

[cj's dad]

https://scontent-lga1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/10923213_900432930024491_3505432932162540483_n.jpg ?oh=8533d60e23039c94e5b3c3b20776f9dc&oe=55F29D51

[JustRalph]

https://scontent-lga1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/10923213_900432930024491_3505432932162540483_n.jpg ?oh=8533d60e23039c94e5b3c3b20776f9dc&oe=55F29D51

hysterical :lol:

[cj's dad]

The Freddie Gray Day Center opened today to 100 children; meanwhile a trial date of 10/13 has been set for the 6 PO's who "assaulted" poor 'ol FG.

[woodtoo]

Your kidding,right?

[Tom]

Free crack pipes to the first 100 kids.
Feature event of the day, a ride in a police van around town.

[cj's dad]

Your kidding,right?

No, and to pour salt into an open wound, some city officials will be there for the grand opening which was set for 9 AM. This city is a hotbed of racism and it is not on the white side.

[LottaKash]

No, and to pour salt into an open wound, some city officials will be there for the grand opening which was set for 9 AM. This city is a hotbed of racism and it is not on the white side.

They gotta keep the votes safe and secure....Right ?..

Sad commentary on the decay of the big cities of America tho...

[Robert Fischer]

they're even rumored to be building a theme-park ride that combines horror movie special effects with police abuse tactics - tentatively named: "silence of the vans"

[woodtoo]

The Baltimore Sun was leaked a copy of the autopsy ,before the defence had seen it. His wrists and ankles were shackled and he was laid in to van on his belly head first, but was not seat belted.

IMO the arresting officers should immediately have charges dropped.

In other words he was thrashing about in the van as the cops reported or fell during the van ride.

I never imagined this would constitute murder charges but what do I know
being a Canadian. :faint:

[wisconsin]

The Baltimore Sun was leaked a copy of the autopsy ,before the defence had seen it. His wrists and ankles were shackled and he was laid in to van on his belly head first, but was not seat belted.

IMO the arresting officers should immediately have charges dropped.

In other words he was thrashing about in the van as the cops reported or fell during the van ride.

I never imagined this would constitute murder charges but what do I know
being a Canadian. :faint:

The other person in the van said he was throwing himself about and banging his head on the wall.

It's his own fault he was shackled as he was. Agree with you-drop the charges now.

[JustRalph]

Not belting him in could be a crime. But no where near murder.

Going nuts on twitter

[Robert Fischer]

Isn't the debate centered around whether or not the drivers of the police wagon intentionally slammed the breaks at various times in order to rough him up?

I'm reading some of the recent comments in this thread, and most posters seem to be oblivious to that question.

[JustRalph]

Isn't the debate centered around whether or not the drivers of the police wagon intentionally slammed the breaks at various times in order to rough him up?

I'm reading some of the recent comments in this thread, and most posters seem to be oblivious to that question.

Proving it will be the problem

[Robert Fischer]

Proving it will be the problem

Exactly, it will not be proven.

However, it does seem to be the leading accusation from those who believe Gray's injuries were caused by the police. Reading some of these comments and they don't seem to address that. I guess it should come as no surprise, seeing as how politics tend to shape most everything in the off-topic section.

[woodtoo]

Isn't the debate centered around whether or not the drivers of the police wagon intentionally slammed the breaks at various times in order to rough him up?

I'm reading some of the recent comments in this thread, and most posters seem to be oblivious to that question.

Frankly this is the first time I've heard of the braking issue, which does sound plausible.
Why charge the arresting officers with murder when they were not even present during the transportation of Freddy ?

[cj's dad]

There was only 1 driver- when he was put in the van the other 5 LEO's went about their duties. FG was not a priority once he was in the van

[cj's dad]

Murder rate in the city has reached 143- 39 ahead of last year at this time. sad state of affairs here in the most racist city in America IMO.

[woodtoo]

There was only 1 driver- when he was put in the van the other 5 LEO's went about their duties. FG was not a priority once he was in the van

Fellow van-mate Donta Allen went on National TV denying he heard any ruckus during ride with Freddy....oopsy.
Police have him "on video" stating " banging against the walls" and " was
intentionally trying to injure himself"
I'm sure the people of Baltimore can handle the truth, who in the hell does
Mosbey think she is?

[JustRalph]

Reports of new evidence that Gray slammed his own head into the inside of the wagon multiple times.........it's gotta be the stuff mentioned above. 44 videos in evidence? Interesting. The videos intrigue me

Should get interesting

[rastajenk]

I'm sure the people of Baltimore can handle the truth, who in the hell does
Mosbey think she is?Subject of a piece in Vogue, of course. (http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2015/06/marilyn-mosby-goes-vogue.php)

[woodtoo]

Subject of a piece in Vogue, of course. (http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2015/06/marilyn-mosby-goes-vogue.php)
I guess I spoke too soon, she is sooo hot in that pantsuit.

Mosbey for VP.

[JustRalph]

she better be careful or she will be the next Duke DA

[cj's dad]

Pre-trial motions to be heard today in downtown Baltimore. Among motions to be heard are:
1- dismissal of all charges vs. the 6 BPD officers
2-change of venue
3- Baltimore DA to be removed as lead prosecutor (she may be called as a defense witness)
4-closed courtroom

On a side note, ALL previously scheduled leave by police officers has been cancelled and outside LEO's have been brought into the city for back up in the event of the judges ruling of dismissal of charges and the riots which would most certainly follow.

[cj's dad]

#'s 1 and 3 iisted above have been denied

[Clocker]

#'s 1 and 3 iisted above have been denied

If they go to trial without changing #2 and #4, I would think those would be strong arguments for an appeal of any convictions. And I think that political correctness in Baltimore makes some kind of conviction a foregone conclusion. The only question is how many and how serious. I'd guess the van driver is toast for sure.

[cj's dad]

If they go to trial without changing #2 and #4, I would think those would be strong arguments for an appeal of any convictions. And I think that political correctness in Baltimore makes some kind of conviction a foregone conclusion. The only question is how many and how serious. I'd guess the van driver is toast for sure.


There is also a motion which will be heard next week to try the 6 separately.

BTW- the van driver is black as are 2 others of the 6.

[Clocker]

[/B]

There is also a motion which will be heard next week to try the 6 separately.

BTW- the van driver is black as are 2 others of the 6.

All the evidence seems to be that the injury took place while the prisoner was under the sole control of the driver, so the case against him would seem to be the strongest. Him being black might calm the mob somewhat if he got off lightly. On the other hand, if he is convicted of anything and the white cops get off, it's riot time again because that would "prove" the system is racist.

With no change in venue, what is the probable racial make up of a jury?

[Tom]

Just in time for the Labor Day cookouts.:rolleyes:

[Clocker]

Just in time for the Labor Day cookouts.:rolleyes:

BlackLivesMatter protesters at the Minnesota State Fair chanted “Pigs in a blanket, fry ’em like bacon.”

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2015/08/30/black-lives-matter-chant-called-disgusting-by-police-leader/

[cj's dad]

All the evidence seems to be that the injury took place while the prisoner was under the sole control of the driver, so the case against him would seem to be the strongest. Him being black might calm the mob somewhat if he got off lightly. On the other hand, if he is convicted of anything and the white cops get off, it's riot time again because that would "prove" the system is racist.

With no change in venue, what is the probable racial make up of a jury?

10-2

BTW- see post #224 re: van driver

[woodtoo]

6 separate trials says judge.

[woodtoo]

A little off topic but, AG Loretta Lynch has spoken using Twitter.

"this wide violence against all of us, regardless of what uniform any of us wear, has no end."
Can she be anymore vague, who is she talking about plumbers UPS drivers
or maybe cops, yea that's it she was trying to say cops but just couldn't bring herself to actually say the word.
Plus it apparently, has no end! God help us all.

[Tom]

Seeing how SHE is a major part of the growth of this culture of violence.
I hope if Baltimore erupts again, SHE is caught on the streets after dark with NO COPS in sight.

Bitch.

[cj's dad]

Baltimore is now up to 225 murders this year as compared to 148 as of the end of August of last year. These murders are All black on black- so, what is the issue?

[fast4522]

Baltimore is now up to 225 murders this year as compared to 148 as of the end of August of last year. These murders are All black on black- so, what is the issue?

Well, because it should not be. America back to work means an improvement to the black community. Nothing makes a man look to what is right and wrong better than a job and in turn feeling of accomplishment.

[Tom]

Then stop voting for democrats.
There is no way the republicans are responsible for the shit hole that is the Baltimore inner city.

As long as they don't care how many get murdered, why should anyone else?

Keep drinking the Kool Aid and listening to the bottom feeders like Sharpton and Obama.

Is there a stupider group on on the planet than those idiots chanting Black Lives matter, and then protesting cops?

[fast4522]

Then stop voting for democrats.
There is no way the republicans are responsible for the shit hole that is the Baltimore inner city.

As long as they don't care how many get murdered, why should anyone else?

Keep drinking the Kool Aid and listening to the bottom feeders like Sharpton and Obama.

Is there a stupider group on on the planet than those idiots chanting Black Lives matter, and then protesting cops?

Well Tom, one has to spend some time in Baltimore to fully encompass the depth of what is going on. Maybe CurtisontheBay could correct me if I am off but I do not think republicans even compete in the political arena there. I would go so far and say there is no place on earth like Baltimore inner city, it is like everyone just gave up twenty years ago.

[Tom]

I've spent a lot of time there from the 70's through about 2005.
Mostly around the harbor area, and never felt threatened. Not much time downtown.

If the residents keep voting democrat, then write them off.

If there are not repubs running, the I say the same thing I said about Ferguson. Balls in your court, folks. Save your own asses.

[fast4522]

I've spent a lot of time there from the 70's through about 2005.
Mostly around the harbor area, and never felt threatened. Not much time downtown.

If the residents keep voting democrat, then write them off.

If there are not repubs running, the I say the same thing I said about Ferguson. Balls in your court, folks. Save your own asses.

Perhaps it is not that easy, just maybe "WE" have a fiduciary responsibility to the black community "OVER" illegals. I am in no way suggesting a liberal view to problem solving, but reserve the opinion to accept a pecking order on who we provide a "leg up". Maybe a comparison with Canada's problems of late to the internal pressures of places like Ferguson and parts of Baltimore might reveal something we truly don't want to admit.

[tucker6]

Perhaps it is not that easy, just maybe "WE" have a fiduciary responsibility to the black community "OVER" illegals. I am in no way suggesting a liberal view to problem solving, but reserve the opinion to accept a pecking order on who we provide a "leg up". Maybe a comparison with Canada's problems of late to the internal pressures of places like Ferguson and parts of Baltimore might reveal something we truly don't want to admit.
The liberals and a black president have turned their backs on blacks in favor of increasing the voter base among illegals (who if given amnesty would become voters). Is that the liberal problem solving skills you suggest we take a page from?

[fast4522]

The liberals and a black president have turned their backs on blacks in favor of increasing the voter base among illegals (who if given amnesty would become voters). Is that the liberal problem solving skills you suggest we take a page from?

No, people need jobs plain and simple. A agenda that has employers in a pinch for more workers because we are not letting enough into the country benefits all community's. Good policy would also effect human needs resources from being drained. Running the country more like a business does with doing what can be afforded differently year to year.

[tucker6]

No, people need jobs plain and simple. A agenda that has employers in a pinch for more workers because we are not letting enough into the country benefits all community's. Good policy would also effect human needs resources from being drained. Running the country more like a business does with doing what can be afforded differently year to year.
Yes, your idea is too narrow in scope and too simplistic. In addition to jobs, people need parents. People need training. People need education. People need leadership. There are plenty of jobs out there if one wants one.

It is far, far easier to bitch about what others have done to you while receiving govt assistance than it is to crawl out of that hole on your own.