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fmhealth
05-06-2015, 11:14 PM
This fellow is bright & insightful. Offers-up an interesting & provocative blog filled with cogent comments.


http://pullthepocket.blogspot.com/2015/05/racing-kentucky-derby-strange-case-of.html

Stillriledup
05-07-2015, 02:45 AM
Nothing he said is false. Its truth and for the racing industry, its painful.

Drugs or no drugs, cheating or no cheating, if you have a 4-1 shot at the top of the lane and he pays 8 bucks, you're miffed and you dont really care if the person who made the horse 3-1 bet before or after the start, all you know is you got 8 bucks on a 10 dollar horse. This doesn't happen in sports betting, you make a bet and when the bet is made, you know your exact odds and exact spread if applicable, if you baseball team hits a grand slam in the 7th inning, you don't get less money, you get what you thought you were getting and this is why Pinnacle handles 40 billion and probably why McDonalds serves 100 billion and the reason is that you know what you're getting, they don't toss you a monkey wrench in the 3rd quarter.

Seabiscuit@AR
05-07-2015, 04:11 AM
The 3rd comment below the article mentioned the Arkansas Racing Commission referring to off track bettors as parasites. I googled this and found the following story from May 3rd

http://swtimes.com/sports/sports-columnists/king-oaklawn-takes-aim-robotic-wagering-horse-racing

Interesting comments. I agree with the people from the Arkansas Racing Commission. They refuse to let CRW bettors in their pools. They said they try to sneak into the pools but then get thrown out again

They also want non racetrack ADWs to make a contribution to purses. I agree with this also. If you are running an ADW you should have to contribute a share of the takeout to purses. It will mean lower rebates which will be a good thing for the average player

Finally they mention that with the smaller foal crop the tracks should aim for less race days with bigger fields. Again makes perfect sense

Oaklawn sounds like one of the better tracks to have a bet in the USA. At least the people running the racing have some idea what they are doing

Stillriledup
05-07-2015, 04:24 AM
The 3rd comment below the article mentioned the Arkansas Racing Commission referring to off track bettors as parasites. I googled this and found the following story from May 3rd

http://swtimes.com/sports/sports-columnists/king-oaklawn-takes-aim-robotic-wagering-horse-racing

Interesting comments. I agree with the people from the Arkansas Racing Commission. They refuse to let CRW bettors in their pools. They said they try to sneak into the pools but then get thrown out again

They also want non racetrack ADWs to make a contribution to purses. I agree with this also. If you are running an ADW you should have to contribute a share of the takeout to purses. It will mean lower rebates which will be a good thing for the average player

Finally they mention that with the smaller foal crop the tracks should aim for less race days with bigger fields. Again makes perfect sense

Oaklawn sounds like one of the better tracks to have a bet in the USA. At least the people running the racing have some idea what they are doing

Two things i don't understand from that article and what you post.

1) How can they "sneak" into the pools, i don't get that part of it. If Oaklawn doesn't accept bets from rebate shops, how is people "sneaking" into the pools a problem?

2) If non track ADWs wagers go into the pool, they're contributing to purses, no?

Seabiscuit@AR
05-07-2015, 04:51 AM
well maybe Oaklawn accepts wagers from some rebate shops that do not offer CRW wagering and the CRW players try to bet through these alternative shops. But really you will have to ask Oaklawn how they sneak in

It appears that some ADWs are not contributing to purses from the comments. Maybe you simply pay a one off low signal fee of a couple of percent and that is it. If a rebate shop is paying 10% rebates and a few percent for signal fees and a few percent to the State Government then there is not much left over for purses

Stillriledup
05-07-2015, 07:00 PM
well maybe Oaklawn accepts wagers from some rebate shops that do not offer CRW wagering and the CRW players try to bet through these alternative shops. But really you will have to ask Oaklawn how they sneak in

It appears that some ADWs are not contributing to purses from the comments. Maybe you simply pay a one off low signal fee of a couple of percent and that is it. If a rebate shop is paying 10% rebates and a few percent for signal fees and a few percent to the State Government then there is not much left over for purses

But what is the difference between a rebate dollar and an ontrack dollar, they both go into the pool and once they are in the pool, they're equals. If purses come out of handle, every dollar that goes into that pool is equally divided up once its in the pool. I think i'm not understanding the breakdown.

tanner12oz
05-07-2015, 07:59 PM
The 3rd comment below the article mentioned the Arkansas Racing Commission referring to off track bettors as parasites. I googled this and found the following story from May 3rd

http://swtimes.com/sports/sports-columnists/king-oaklawn-takes-aim-robotic-wagering-horse-racing

Interesting comments. I agree with the people from the Arkansas Racing Commission. They refuse to let CRW bettors in their pools. They said they try to sneak into the pools but then get thrown out again

They also want non racetrack ADWs to make a contribution to purses. I agree with this also. If you are running an ADW you should have to contribute a share of the takeout to purses. It will mean lower rebates which will be a good thing for the average player

Finally they mention that with the smaller foal crop the tracks should aim for less race days with bigger fields. Again makes perfect sense

Oaklawn sounds like one of the better tracks to have a bet in the USA. At least the people running the racing have some idea what they are doing

oaklawn has crappy customer service...frank is a solid guy but that's about it from my experiences

thespaah
05-07-2015, 08:19 PM
Nothing he said is false. Its truth and for the racing industry, its painful.

Drugs or no drugs, cheating or no cheating, if you have a 4-1 shot at the top of the lane and he pays 8 bucks, you're miffed and you dont really care if the person who made the horse 3-1 bet before or after the start, all you know is you got 8 bucks on a 10 dollar horse. This doesn't happen in sports betting, you make a bet and when the bet is made, you know your exact odds and exact spread if applicable, if you baseball team hits a grand slam in the 7th inning, you don't get less money, you get what you thought you were getting and this is why Pinnacle handles 40 billion and probably why McDonalds serves 100 billion and the reason is that you know what you're getting, they don't toss you a monkey wrench in the 3rd quarter.
I think you are missing the point.
Lets get one thing cleared up....If there was past posting that is in proportion to the number of times we see odds changes after the bell. horse racing would have been scandalized right out of existence.
With that said, here's the problem..
Its technology. Period.. The systems were not designed to register the amounts wagered in real time. With some 80% of the handle hitting tote systems with less than 2 mins to post, the simple truth is it takes time for the money to show up in the pools. It just does.
Now, just because a bettor plunks down his cash with 2 mins to post ( at 4-1) is no guarantee the odds will be 4-1 at "off". That's the nature of pari-mutuel wagering.
If you want fixed odds, find an offshore book or move to Nevada. My understanding is there some Vegas books and offshore sites that do offer fixed odds. Betfair offers exchange betting.
Now, you may reply with "why can't they just modernize the technology?"....Good question. But I think you know the answer to that.

Stillriledup
05-07-2015, 08:47 PM
I think you are missing the point.
Lets get one thing cleared up....If there was past posting that is in proportion to the number of times we see odds changes after the bell. horse racing would have been scandalized right out of existence.
With that said, here's the problem..
Its technology. Period.. The systems were not designed to register the amounts wagered in real time. With some 80% of the handle hitting tote systems with less than 2 mins to post, the simple truth is it takes time for the money to show up in the pools. It just does.
Now, just because a bettor plunks down his cash with 2 mins to post ( at 4-1) is no guarantee the odds will be 4-1 at "off". That's the nature of pari-mutuel wagering.
If you want fixed odds, find an offshore book or move to Nevada. My understanding is there some Vegas books and offshore sites that do offer fixed odds. Betfair offers exchange betting.
Now, you may reply with "why can't they just modernize the technology?"....Good question. But I think you know the answer to that.

I think there's just not enough horses going UP in price that are winning, seems like 9 out of 10 winners come down, its certainly not 50/50 but it should be closer to 50/50 and its not.

Track Phantom
05-07-2015, 09:05 PM
Two comments:


It's not out of the question that past posting exists. There is relatively weak technology involved and may be some loopholes that can be exploited. There have been enough suspicious activity to raise eyebrows.
Any past posting problem is highly unlikely to be related to odds movements during the early running of the race. There is a lag in final pool totals. However, it is interesting how often those in the best early position (break clean, on an easy lead, etc) get knocked down during the running of the race. My gut tells me it is a simple product of lag related to the technology used to compile the final dollars.

burnsy
05-09-2015, 07:40 AM
He used the word "restructure" in the closing. The industry loathes to hear that and never considers it. Just like he said, they trumpet the big days like Derby day, the Preakness, the Belmont or the Breeders Cup and those do well and often break records but the other 361 days are only mentioned when there's a modest uptick, just like he said. And saying, "We've turned the corner." Is getting harder to sell because those trends are far and few between these days.......more times than not handle and attendance are going the wrong way.....so they don't say Jack anymore. Its a human trait, pretend its not there or there's not a problem and it will go away. Life hardly ever works that way. Meanwhile, those that are with the times are eating horse racings lunch.....look at his numbers..........people still like to gamble, horse racing just needs a better product.