The Preakness Stakes

[nads1420]

and its on to the Preakness.... Didnt think it was an overwhelming win. he can be beat

[razorback5]

and its on to the Preakness.... Didnt think it was an overwhelming win. he can be beat
If this was the strongest field in many years and he goes three wide most of the race and puts away two of those good horses this year, good luck trying to beat him.

[boys at tosconova]

and its on to the Preakness.... Didnt think it was an overwhelming win. he can be beat

yes..mutabi's baby wings will be a lil' bigger

[BlueChip@DRF]

I WANT American Pharoah to win The Preakness. That would give The Belmont more drama.

[PaceMasterT]

If this was the strongest field in many years and he goes three wide most of the race and puts away two of those good horses this year, good luck trying to beat him.


And with a slow pace that favored Dortmund and firing line. Everything in those horses favor, All negatives for American Pharaoh.

[Tall One]

yes..mutabi's baby wings will be a lil' bigger



and he can fly them back home...don't think he'll go to Maryland.

[letswastemoney]

I don't see why everyone thinks 23 and 47 was slow for a 10 furlong race

[Tall One]

I don't see why everyone thinks 23 and 47 was slow for a 10 furlong race



I don't.

[PaceMasterT]

I don't see why everyone thinks 23 and 47 was slow for a 10 furlong race


Hard to compare times 1 turn mile/not 1 1/4 etc.

But I think the best comparison comes from the first race of the day that was a 1 1/16 alw nw2x race. Yes they went a shorter distance, but they hit the turn during the first fractions that should make them slower

Race 1 22.95 46.20 1:10.63
Race 11. 23.24. 47.34. 1:11.29


So, not only did the cheaper horses set faster fractions into the turn, the horse setting them (at 14-1) in that race wired the field. That, on the surface makes it seem like the fractions for the Derby were a little soft.

[Rex Phinney]

I don't see why everyone thinks 23 and 47 was slow for a 10 furlong race

I do.

Watching three favorites go to the front and 15 horses behind them just let them cruise with absolutely zero pressure is a damn travesty. Factor in that it seems like every track favors speed on big days and it makes the racing far to predictable.

If I'm on a 50-1 shot how can I let horses like Dortmund and Firing line get in front of me with no pressure? Might as well stay in the gate.

[depalma113]

Race 1 22.95 46.20 1:10.63
Race 11. 23.24. 47.34. 1:11.29

Race 12 24.08 48.01 1:12.50

The track was getting slower all day.

[derby44]

Firing Line never changed leads down the stretch. Would it have made a difference?

[rastajenk]

I'd like to see Baffert skip the Preakness with both of his stars to protest Baltimore's inability to maintain a civil society. That would make a fine statement.

[DRIVEWAY]

I'd like to see Baffert skip the Preakness with both of his stars to protest Baltimore's inability to maintain a civil society. That would make a fine statement.

You can go to the bank on that! :lol:

[depalma113]

I'd like to see Baffert skip the Preakness with both of his stars to protest Baltimore's inability to maintain a civil society. That would make a fine statement.

Based on that, might as well stay out of New York too.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

I'd like to see Baffert skip the Preakness with both of his stars to protest Baltimore's inability to maintain a civil society. That would make a fine statement.

Yes, we need horse racing to start making political statements. :faint:

[magwell]

Based on that, might as well stay out of New York too.:lol::lol::lol:

[nads1420]

Kinda think we are going to get 2007 over again... same three is the Preakness finish on top... low payouts

[raybo]

Kinda think we are going to get 2007 over again... same three is the Preakness finish on top... low payouts

Well, if the same 3 finish on top, but not in the same order, what kind of payout will be ok with you? You possibly could get better than 4/1 on Dortmund, and 5/2 - 7/2 on Firing Line, with AP being about even money or less. So, just what kind of odds are you looking for? Maybe you don't bet win, and only verticals, better keep your money in your pocket in that case.

[Kash$]

I don't see why everyone thinks 23 and 47 was slow for a 10 furlong race

Agree,Everyone is used to seeing pace collaspe in the derby.Pace wasnt slow.

[LemonSoupKid]

Agree,Everyone is used to seeing pace collaspe in the derby.Pace wasnt slow.

23 and 47 were fast-ish, but just hurt Dortmund more than the others. When I saw the 3/4 in 1:11 change I thought he might hold on ... or the others that were right there would keep the lead ... which they did.

Are all 3 coming back?

[raybo]

Are all 3 coming back?

That's the plan according to both trainers this morning.

[gm10]

Will be interesting ... was a strangely underwhelming victory by AP in my opinion. Materiality and Frosted both ran huge races, I hope they will line up in the Preakness (not likely, but one can only hope). I wouldn't even write off Danzig Moon who's still learning and got a bit jostled around on Saturday.

[nads1420]

Well, if the same 3 finish on top, but not in the same order, what kind of payout will be ok with you? You possibly could get better than 4/1 on Dortmund, and 5/2 - 7/2 on Firing Line, with AP being about even money or less. So, just what kind of odds are you looking for? Maybe you don't bet win, and only verticals, better keep your money in your pocket in that case.


$10 tri box the 3 of them im thinking now... $60 bet could pay out about $300-$500

[classhandicapper]

I don't see why everyone thinks 23 and 47 was slow for a 10 furlong race

It think it's tough to get a perfect line on the impact of the pace.

1. The 3 horses on the pace had a lot of speed. That suggests it wasn't slow.

2. The 3 hoses on the lead went 1,2,3 around the track. That suggests it was slow.

3. The 3 horses on the lead were arguably the 3 best horses in the race. They may have been going at a lively clip, but were good enough to last anyway.

4. It always complicated to get a good line on the pace from just the fractions, but it's especially difficult when a distance isn't run often (like 10F) and a big part of the sample is other Derbies where paces tended to be very fast.

Given the evidence, it's hard to imagine the pace strayed too far from the average range.

[boys at tosconova]

i have to say hats off to the danzig moon camp. although i didn't watch the replay and isolate him finishing 5th is a great achievement.

[minethatbird08]

It think it's tough to get a perfect line on the impact of the pace.

1. The 3 horses on the pace had a lot of speed. That suggests it wasn't slow.

2. The 3 hoses on the lead went 1,2,3 around the track. That suggests it was slow.

3. The 3 horses on the lead were arguably the 3 best horses in the race. They may have been going at a lively clip, but were good enough to last anyway.

4. It always complicated to get a good line on the pace from just the fractions, but it's especially difficult when a distance isn't run often (like 10F) and a big part of the sample is other Derbies where paces tended to be very fast.

Given the evidence, it's hard to imagine the pace strayed too far from the average range.

Adding to your second point is that out of the first 5 horses to reach the 3/4 ONLY one did not finish in the top 5. Basically Carpe Diem was replaced by Frosted. Danzig Moon just stayed in 5th place all the way around the track. The top 3 positions switched around.

[nijinski]

Delacour might enter Divining Rod . He's hoping the top Derby three
might be a little tired . :D Say's he's doing well at Fair Hill . Well ,
you never know .

[BlinkersOn]

Frosted is resting for the Belmont. He could well be the spoiler.

[delsully]

Frosted is resting for the Belmont. He could well be the spoiler.

I agree, he ran a pretty good race all things considered.

[depalma113]

I guess owners need to skip the Derby too.

LOUISVILLE, Ky. — Two of three people charged in the fatal shooting of a Canadian tourist in town for the Kentucky Derby have entered not guilty pleas.

WAVE-TV reports that Tyrone Thomas Jr. and his girlfriend, Fatima Abu-Diab, appeared Tuesday in Jefferson District Court to answer charges in the death of 49-year-old Scott Hunter of Toronto. A judge set bond at $500,000 each.

Police have said Hunter died while trying to fight off three people who robbed him at random during a crime spree amid the festivities of the horse race.

According to police records, Thomas is accused of firing the fatal shots, and Abu-Diab is accused of driving the getaway car. Police say her brother, Fahed Abu-Diab, also was involved.

Each faces charges of murder and a dozen counts of armed robbery.

[tanner12oz]

Pimlico doing mandatory payouts like in years past on the jackpot bets for preakness day?

[nijinski]

I guess owners need to skip the Derby too.

LOUISVILLE, Ky. — Two of three people charged in the fatal shooting of a Canadian tourist in town for the Kentucky Derby have entered not guilty pleas.

WAVE-TV reports that Tyrone Thomas Jr. and his girlfriend, Fatima Abu-Diab, appeared Tuesday in Jefferson District Court to answer charges in the death of 49-year-old Scott Hunter of Toronto. A judge set bond at $500,000 each.

Police have said Hunter died while trying to fight off three people who robbed him at random during a crime spree amid the festivities of the horse race.

According to police records, Thomas is accused of firing the fatal shots, and Abu-Diab is accused of driving the getaway car. Police say her brother, Fahed Abu-Diab, also was involved.

Each faces charges of murder and a dozen counts of armed robbery.

This was very sad

[nads1420]

since im going to the Preakness iv been following the Baltimore Police feed on Twitter and let me just say... Man!! Someone gets shot every few hours in that town. What a dump it is. I hope they have a ton of extra security around that weekend. That town is crazy... And the damn Mayor couldnt look or sound like more of an idiot. Im still going but man i dont feel overly comfortable about it.

[horses4courses]

Latest line on Preakness from UK books:

http://www.oddschecker.com/horse-racing/ante-post-racing/international/preakness-stakes/winner

Consensus:

American Pharoah 3-5

Firing Line 9-2

Dortmund 6-1

Frosted 12-1

Competitive Edge 12-1

Materiality 15-1

Carpe Diem 18-1

Danzig Moon 20-1

Divining Rod 20-1

Stanford 25-1

Bodhisattva 50-1

Mr. Z 50-1

[razorback5]

Materiality reminds me of Oxbow in the 2013 Preakness. Didn't expend to much energy in the derby and can go to the front and try to steal the race. Don't think Materiality can beat AP but maybe can stay on for 2nd. Really like a AP/Materiality exacta.

[classhandicapper]

Adding to your second point is that out of the first 5 horses to reach the 3/4 ONLY one did not finish in the top 5. Basically Carpe Diem was replaced by Frosted. Danzig Moon just stayed in 5th place all the way around the track. The top 3 positions switched around.

Good point.

The flow looks slow, but since it was dominated mostly by strong contenders with some speed, I doubt it was extreme.

[BlueChip@DRF]

Latest line on Preakness from UK books:

http://www.oddschecker.com/horse-racing/ante-post-racing/international/preakness-stakes/winner

Consensus:

American Pharoah 3-5

Firing Line 9-2

Dortmund 6-1

Frosted 12-1

Competitive Edge 12-1

Materiality 15-1

Carpe Diem 18-1

Danzig Moon 20-1

Divining Rod 20-1

Stanford 25-1

Bodhisattva 50-1

Mr. Z 50-1

Give me Competitive Edge at those odds!

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Give me Competitive Edge at those odds!
I have to admit that Competitive Edge is one of the three horses that I might be on in an attempt to get AP beat.

The other two are Divining Rod and Wolf Man Rocket (which the latter is entered in the Peter Pan Stakes). If he wins, he will probably pass the Preakness in favor of the Belmont. But if connections scratch him out of a five horse field, there might be something in that horse if he shows up at the Preakness.

Guess I have been around too long. Not only handicapping the horse race I had to also handicap the connections on placement of their horses in stake races.

[raybo]

Latest line on Preakness from UK books:

http://www.oddschecker.com/horse-racing/ante-post-racing/international/preakness-stakes/winner

Consensus:

American Pharoah 3-5

Firing Line 9-2

Dortmund 6-1

Frosted 12-1

Competitive Edge 12-1

Materiality 15-1

Carpe Diem 18-1

Danzig Moon 20-1

Divining Rod 20-1

Stanford 25-1

Bodhisattva 50-1

Mr. Z 50-1

I'll either pass the Preakness, or bet against AP at those odds. There will be some very good odds on most of the others.

[BlueChip@DRF]

I have to admit that Competitive Edge is one of the three horses that I might be on in an attempt to get AP beat.

The other two are Divining Rod and Wolf Man Rocket (which the latter is entered in the Peter Pan Stakes). If he wins, he will probably pass the Preakness in favor of the Belmont. But if connections scratch him out of a five horse field, there might be something in that horse if he shows up at the Preakness.

Guess I have been around too long. Not only handicapping the horse race I had to also handicap the connections on placement of their horses in stake races.

Wolf Man Rocket does not have any cross-breeding within his first 5 generations.

[Rex Phinney]

I had Firing Line & Danzig Moon in the derby and I think I still like those two.

I may only play Danzig Moon on the bottom of my exotics if AP, Dortmund and Firing Line all actually show for the Preakness. I still can't see Baffert letting Dortmund in the gate with AP having the chance to run for the triple crown.

IMO the top 3 from the derby are equally good horses. I'd have no problem playing the 2 with the best odds for the Preakness.

[raybo]

I had Firing Line & Danzig Moon in the derby and I think I still like those two.

I may only play Danzig Moon on the bottom of my exotics if AP, Dortmund and Firing Line all actually show for the Preakness. I still can't see Baffert letting Dortmund in the gate with AP having the chance to run for the triple crown.

IMO the top 3 from the derby are equally good horses. I'd have no problem playing the 2 with the best odds for the Preakness.

Dortmund and AP have different owners, Baffert cannot refuse to enter Dortmund in the Preakness if his owner wants to run him. Dortmund's owner is not likely to care much about AP's chances of winning the TC, he would be more likely to only care about Dortmund winning the Preakness.

[Rex Phinney]

Dortmund and AP have different owners, Baffert cannot refuse to enter Dortmund in the Preakness if his owner wants to run him. Dortmund's owner is not likely to care much about AP's chances of winning the TC, he would be more likely to only care about Dortmund winning the Preakness.

I understand what you are saying, but Bob Baffert just a month ago won you the Santa Anita Derby, six months ago he won you the richest race in North America, the Penn Derby and the Haskell. If he comes to you and asks to give your horse a break let the Preakness shake out and maybe be ready for the Belmont I think you listen.

Baffert is closer to the end than the beginning. Judging by the things he said after the BC Classic last year he still wants all the sports biggest trophies. If he wants to sit Dortmund in order to get to Belmont with AP to chase the TC and put the sport in the spotlight again, the owner should oblige. Now once they are onto Belmont it's a different story, no owner should lay down for another with the TC on the line, AP at that point has to go earn it.

I just don't see Dortmund in the gate at Pimlico, whether Baffert asks Shah directly to skip the race or he tells him the horse needs a break it doesn't matter, Baffert will not shoot himself in the foot with a chance to chase the sport's brightest trophy.

[minethatbird08]

I understand what you are saying, but Bob Baffert just a month ago won you the Santa Anita Derby, six months ago he won you the richest race in North America, the Penn Derby and the Haskell. If he comes to you and asks to give your horse a break let the Preakness shake out and maybe be ready for the Belmont I think you listen.

Baffert is closer to the end than the beginning. Judging by the things he said after the BC Classic last year he still wants all the sports biggest trophies. If he wants to sit Dortmund in order to get to Belmont with AP to chase the TC and put the sport in the spotlight again, the owner should oblige. Now once they are onto Belmont it's a different story, no owner should lay down for another with the TC on the line, AP at that point has to go earn it.

I just don't see Dortmund in the gate at Pimlico, whether Baffert asks Shah directly to skip the race or he tells him the horse needs a break it doesn't matter, Baffert will not shoot himself in the foot with a chance to chase the sport's brightest trophy.

In my opinion Dortmund was clearly not as good as Firing Line or AP in the Derby. I think if you are Baffert you have to have confidence in that fact. Honestly, the biggest challenge AP faces in the Preakness is himself; how did he come out of the Derby?

[Rex Phinney]

In my opinion Dortmund was clearly not as good as Firing Line or AP in the Derby. I think if you are Baffert you have to have confidence in that fact. Honestly, the biggest challenge AP faces in the Preakness is himself; how did he come out of the Derby?

Dortmund set the pace and the other two had the advantage of stalking him.

More importantly from a pure physical standpoint, this horse is a threat every time he runs. He is the type of horse that may not win every race, but because of his physical stature he is capable of having days were he is unbeatable. The type of horse who on a "good" day can do things others just cannot, they don't have the physical makeup.

AP might outrun Dortmund 8 out of 10 times, but there is going to come a day when Dortmund fires his best race, and when he does noone can beat him. Baffert knows this.

[LemonSoupKid]

Dortmund set the pace and the other two had the advantage of stalking him.

More importantly from a pure physical standpoint, this horse is a threat every time he runs. He is the type of horse that may not win every race, but because of his physical stature he is capable of having days were he is unbeatable. The type of horse who on a "good" day can do things others just cannot, they don't have the physical makeup.

AP might outrun Dortmund 8 out of 10 times, but there is going to come a day when Dortmund fires his best race, and when he does noone can beat him. Baffert knows this.

Good analysis. Very sharp, I agree.

[zico20]

I understand what you are saying, but Bob Baffert just a month ago won you the Santa Anita Derby, six months ago he won you the richest race in North America, the Penn Derby and the Haskell. If he comes to you and asks to give your horse a break let the Preakness shake out and maybe be ready for the Belmont I think you listen.

Baffert is closer to the end than the beginning. Judging by the things he said after the BC Classic last year he still wants all the sports biggest trophies. If he wants to sit Dortmund in order to get to Belmont with AP to chase the TC and put the sport in the spotlight again, the owner should oblige. Now once they are onto Belmont it's a different story, no owner should lay down for another with the TC on the line, AP at that point has to go earn it.

I just don't see Dortmund in the gate at Pimlico, whether Baffert asks Shah directly to skip the race or he tells him the horse needs a break it doesn't matter, Baffert will not shoot himself in the foot with a chance to chase the sport's brightest trophy.

Here is a quote from Baffert in my Monday morning paper."My job is to get my people there if the horse is doing well. They understand that sometimes I will beat them with another horse. If Dortmund turns the tables on him, so be it."

When you have rich owners you don't want to piss them off by saying that my personal goals are more important than your wants. If Kaleem Shah wants Dortmund to run in the Preakness, Baffert will run him. Don't think this wasn't all discussed prior to the Derby if they both run an excellent race. Both owners knew they would probably meet again in one of the next two TC races.

[raybo]

I understand what you are saying, but Bob Baffert just a month ago won you the Santa Anita Derby, six months ago he won you the richest race in North America, the Penn Derby and the Haskell. If he comes to you and asks to give your horse a break let the Preakness shake out and maybe be ready for the Belmont I think you listen.

Baffert is closer to the end than the beginning. Judging by the things he said after the BC Classic last year he still wants all the sports biggest trophies. If he wants to sit Dortmund in order to get to Belmont with AP to chase the TC and put the sport in the spotlight again, the owner should oblige. Now once they are onto Belmont it's a different story, no owner should lay down for another with the TC on the line, AP at that point has to go earn it.

I just don't see Dortmund in the gate at Pimlico, whether Baffert asks Shah directly to skip the race or he tells him the horse needs a break it doesn't matter, Baffert will not shoot himself in the foot with a chance to chase the sport's brightest trophy.

Wow - really? Baffert won all those races? My understanding is that the horses and jockeys win all those races, not the trainer.

If you are the owner of Dortmund, and anybody short of Jesus Christ asks you to pass a race just so another horse has a better shot at winning it, especially when you stand a chance of beating the Derby Champ, what do you do? If it's me, I tell Bob Baffert where the heck he can get off.

You sound like you really believe what you wrote, that thinking is beyond me. IMO, the only way Dortmund doesn't run the Preakness is if he is not physically able to, period. Good luck with your theory though!

[raybo]

Here is a quote from Baffert in my Monday morning paper."My job is to get my people there if the horse is doing well. They understand that sometimes I will beat them with another horse. If Dortmund turns the tables on him, so be it."

When you have rich owners you don't want to piss them off by saying that my personal goals are more important than your wants. If Kaleem Shah wants Dortmund to run in the Preakness, Baffert will run him. Don't think this wasn't all discussed prior to the Derby if they both run an excellent race. Both owners knew they would probably meet again in one of the next two TC races.

I agree, it's about the horses and the owners, not the trainers, if the horses are ready and able to run and the horses have been prepared for the TC all along. I don't care what your name or your record is as a trainer, the owners control their horses in the final analysis, not the trainers. Sure the owners listen to their trainer, but in a situation like this one, i'm sure things were previously discussed regarding such an eventuality, and it was a very real possibility. Both owners were prepared to compete against each other, for all 3 TC races, regardless of any TC crown implications, and probably the BC too.

[Rex Phinney]

Here is a quote from Baffert in my Monday morning paper."My job is to get my people there if the horse is doing well. They understand that sometimes I will beat them with another horse. If Dortmund turns the tables on him, so be it."

When you have rich owners you don't want to piss them off by saying that my personal goals are more important than your wants. If Kaleem Shah wants Dortmund to run in the Preakness, Baffert will run him. Don't think this wasn't all discussed prior to the Derby if they both run an excellent race. Both owners knew they would probably meet again in one of the next two TC races.

When Dortmund is in the gate at Pimlico I'll be the first to admit I got it wrong. Until then no one is changing my mind on this.

When talking about owners and trainers I always keep in mind that there are lots of rich owners, but there is only one D Wayne Lukas and there is only one Bob Baffert.

[Rex Phinney]

Wow - really? Baffert won all those races? My understanding is that the horses and jockeys win all those races, not the trainer.

If you are the owner of Dortmund, and anybody short of Jesus Christ asks you to pass a race just so another horse has a better shot at winning it, especially when you stand a chance of beating the Derby Champ, what do you do? If it's me, I tell Bob Baffert where the heck he can get off.

You sound like you really believe what you wrote, that thinking is beyond me. IMO, the only way Dortmund doesn't run the Preakness is if he is not physically able to, period. Good luck with your theory though!

Cool tell him where to stick it, go find a trainer who has won more big time races or more money. And oh BTW the jockey you had for all those races too, kiss him goodbye. He tried testing Baffert's will once before and came crawling back.

Baffert has guided Shah to every success he had in this game.

If Dortmund does run in the Preakness you better think long and hard just how much of a chance he has to win. I'd be hard pressed to place a bet that Baffert takes himself out of a TC chance. The owner should be thinking the same thing

[Thebigguy]

I agree, it's about the horses and the owners, not the trainers, if the horses are ready and able to run and the horses have been prepared for the TC all along. I don't care what your name or your record is as a trainer, the owners control their horses in the final analysis, not the trainers. Sure the owners listen to their trainer, but in a situation like this one, i'm sure things were previously discussed regarding such an eventuality, and it was a very real possibility. Both owners were prepared to compete against each other, for all 3 TC races, regardless of any TC crown implications, and probably the BC too.

More gold... comedy gold in this thread. Yup trainers have nothing to do with it. Do you're spread sheets tell you that??

[raybo]

Cool tell him where to stick it, go find a trainer who has won more big time races or more money. And oh BTW the jockey you had for all those races too, kiss him goodbye. He tried testing Baffert's will once before and came crawling back.

Baffert has guided Shah to every success he had in this game.

If Dortmund does run in the Preakness you better think long and hard just how much of a chance he has to win. I'd be hard pressed to place a bet that Baffert takes himself out of a TC chance. The owner should be thinking the same thing

Back-pedaling already. Now you're backing off your absolutist stance that Dortmund won't be in the Preakness because of the all powerful Baffert telling owners what they will and won't do with their horses, and saying that if he does run, Baffert will make sure he won't run well. Wonder what Dortmund's owner, and jockey, will think of the great Bob Baffert then? I'm not disrespecting Baffert, but you sure are! He's a good trainer and he has won a lot of big races, but he can only do that if he gets quality animals from owners who trust him to do his best by them, all of them, not just the one with the chance for the TC crown.

All I can say is, come Preakness day you better stand up and come on here and apologize for spouting all that nonsense! No more back-pedaling, straight out, down on your knees, bended head, apologizing. Anything less than that won't be acceptable. You spouted that crap, you own it!

Man, it just gets goofier and goofier around here.

[raybo]

More gold... comedy gold in this thread. Yup trainers have nothing to do with it. Do you're spread sheets tell you that??

Trainers train horses and advise the owners, they don't tell them what they will and won't do with their horses, at this level, especially when they have a chance to run in any of the TC races. These kinds of races are the reason owners and breeders are in the game, the chance to get one that has what it takes to run in these races. And, now you two are saying that when they do get that kind of horse, some supposed super-trainer is going to tell them not to run so one of their competitors gets a free ride? Good grief man! Do you know how idiotic that sounds?

I suppose Sherman told CC's owners to run in Dubai, and then told them to keep him overseas. My memory reminds me that he was dead against it, but the owners owned the horse,and the owners decided where he would run, and for how long he would run there.

If I'm Baffert, I hope Dortmund and AP run each other until they retire, I win no matter which one comes out on top.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Trainers train horses and advise the owners, they don't tell them what they will and won't do with their horses, at this level, especially when they have a chance to run in any of the TC races. These kinds of races are the reason owners and breeders are in the game, the chance to get one that has what it takes to run in these races. And, now you two are saying that when they do get that kind of horse, some supposed super-trainer is going to tell them not to run so one of their competitors gets a free ride? Good grief man! Do you know how idiotic that sounds?
.

Dort's owner lives in Virginia - no way he's asking BB to keep Dort out of the Preakness (barring injury).

[MutuelClerk]

And par for the course.....

[boys at tosconova]

so rex thinks baffert has a dick dastardly devious plan. really?

also there's nothing to base your claims about dorts ever beating AP..this is all based on what you think, just because he's a huge specimen of a horse.

[Rex Phinney]

Back-pedaling already. Now you're backing off your absolutist stance that Dortmund won't be in the Preakness because of the all powerful Baffert telling owners what they will and won't do with their horses, and saying that if he does run, Baffert will make sure he won't run well. Wonder what Dortmund's owner, and jockey, will think of the great Bob Baffert then? I'm not disrespecting Baffert, but you sure are! He's a good trainer and he has won a lot of big races, but he can only do that if he gets quality animals from owners who trust him to do his best by them, all of them, not just the one with the chance for the TC crown.

All I can say is, come Preakness day you better stand up and come on here and apologize for spouting all that nonsense! No more back-pedaling, straight out, down on your knees, bended head, apologizing. Anything less than that won't be acceptable. You spouted that crap, you own it!

Man, it just gets goofier and goofier around here.

I already said I'd be the first to say I got it wrong. I won't be apologizing for anything. What would I apologize for? Who is hurt here? Who has been wronged by anything I've said?

So I think it is a little bit curious that a big name trainer like this would take the chance of shooting himself in the foot. Big deal. I think if this was a small time trainer we were talking about my thought would be crazy. I think "most" trainers would not want to risk pissing off a rich owner, but Bob Baffert is not "most" trainers. He has enough lined up to last his lifetime, so he is not going to be as concerned with hurting someone's feelings as say a Simon Callaghan is.

Trainers advise owners to skip the Preakness ALL THE TIME. It's not like Baffert would be asking to sit Dortmund out of the BC classic after 6 months of prep. He'd be passing on running the horse back in two weeks after he didn't win the Derby, that happens every year.

Owners that tell trainers what todo surely do exist, but they don't end up with guys like Bob Baffert. Believe that.

[Rex Phinney]

so rex thinks baffert has a dick dastardly devious plan. really?

also there's nothing to base your claims about dorts ever beating AP..this is all based on what you think, just because he's a huge specimen of a horse.

I hate to break it to you but about 99% of handicapping is "based on what you think". There is nothing written in stone that says Dortmund can or cannot ever beat AP. My experience is that eventually a horse as good as Dortmund will get the best of his rival, in one race, on one day, anything can happen.

[MJC922]

Bob is very strategic IMO when he has horses running in the same race, as we saw in the Derby they don't go out and knock heads. The plan there was to scare the hell out of all the speed, plan to go immediately to the front with Dortmund and back it down to the half. Gary is tremendously tuned into these strategies too from years of observation so it's no surprise he was not fooled by any of it.... it was a foregone conclusion after a half mile one of the top three would win, these are too good horses to be caught after 47+, the only drama was could Gary on Firing Line upset the tag team.

These other trainers are almost intimidated by Bob too, it's like roll over and play dead, who was it Ocho's trainer who drew the rail and said we're going to take back or some quote like that, good god man, get the hell out of training, you have NO clue if you think this horse is going to sit back and outkick anyone of this caliber, just lunacy. Mr. Z. was another part of the tag team, he was just in to take up a spot, one more horse AP's owner didn't have to worry about pressing the pace where he had every reason to be at 47+. Bottom line for me, I think they'll both be in the Preakness but they'll be very careful in planning out their journey.

[horses4courses]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CE7YZFOUkAAXxkQ.jpg

[Appy]

I'm pretty curious to see what happens right out of the gate this trip.
Does Pharoah have enough to gun it out of the gate and wire this thing? Haven't had a Preakness winner from the rail in over 20 years.
Or will Dortmund explode out again to gain the lead early?
If he does and Pharoah sits behind, he could get pinned by those outside, forcing him to fight through a lot of traffic from down on the rail.
Firing Line has the choice trip this go.
Different race coming up Saturday than what we had in the Derby.

The draw suddenly made this a more interesting race.