2016 Presidential Election Thread

[highnote]

I just read an article about Jeb Bush saying he wants to give 11 million immigrants a chance to stay in the U.S.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/29/jeb-bush-immigration_n_7174746.html

Is this going to be a source of friction between him and the republican party? Or is this a necessary stance in order to get votes from the center?

[horses4courses]

I would argue that if he didn't take that stance,
he would have very little chance of winning in 2016.

If it costs him the nomination, then more power to the Dems.

[Tom]

As long as they stay at HIS house and HE pays all the expenses, I'm fine with it.
He is supposed to be telling us what he will do for AMERICA. That idea has no upside for US citizens.

This Bush is certifiable.

[horses4courses]

As long as they stay at HIS house and HE pays all the expenses, I'm fine with it.
He is supposed to be telling us what he will do for AMERICA. That idea has no upside for US citizens.

This Bush is certifiable.

I hope you're right, and that he's not nominated.

[Tom]

Common ground! :ThmbUp:

[horses4courses]

Common ground! :ThmbUp:

Yeah....we'll see how long that lasts :lol:

[johnhannibalsmith]

Those 11 million are natural conservative voters. Strong family units and traditions, generally respectfully religious if not devout, and people who tend towards believing that a man earns his property and protects it. At some point someone needs to explain carefully that you can either lose the war or win it and it wouldn't be all that shocking to see that Republican brand name try to move the focus elsewhere and do a bit of an end run at stealing the other store's customers.

[Robert Goren]

Those 11 million are natural conservative voters. Strong family units and traditions, generally respectfully religious if not devout, and people who tend towards believing that a man earns his property and protects it. At some point someone needs to explain carefully that you can either lose the war or win it and it wouldn't be all that shocking to see that Republican brand name try to move the focus elsewhere and do a bit of an end run at stealing the other store's customers. I am sure the GOP nominee will try that, but I expect the "true believers" in the party will not allow that to happen. They expect the GOP candidate to often and loudly about issues they are concerned about even it cost him the election. Being anti illegal immigration is not an issue that GOP can find many new voters on, despite how strongly the base feels about it. And the base is going to make sure it will be an issue in 2016 whether the nominee wants it to be or not.

[Tom]

Millions of illegals is most definitely an issue.
Unless of course, they stay with you and you foo the bills for them.

The left talks big when it the RIGHT who have the jobs and have to pay the bills.

[Robert Goren]

Millions of illegals is most definitely an issue.
Unless of course, they stay with you and you foo the bills for them.

The left talks big when it the RIGHT who have the jobs and have to pay the bills. Most of what you say is true (there are plenty of left wing employers), but a GOP candidate can not do what you want him to do if he is not elected.

[Tom]

What did you call a non-Tea Party republican that gets elected?
A democrat.

[johnhannibalsmith]

I am sure the GOP nominee will try that, but I expect the "true believers" in the party will not allow that to happen. They expect the GOP candidate to often and loudly about issues they are concerned about even it cost him the election. Being anti illegal immigration is not an issue that GOP can find many new voters on, despite how strongly the base feels about it. And the base is going to make sure it will be an issue in 2016 whether the nominee wants it to be or not.

You can be against it all you want and curse it up and down but it seems pretty obvious that nobody is going to do a thing to prevent it in the first place. You can keep running a welfare shuttle back and forth to the homeland for them in the meantime or be a party hero and try to add 10% to your team's new voter total in each of the next few elections. Or you can keep bitching about it and getting nothing done but repeating the same things about fences and drone technology or whatever sounds like it offers a glimmer of hope after decades of the last promises getting nowhere fast. At some point they have to concede that this is playing out all wrong for them and their goals and show the true colors of party ideology.

[fast4522]

This is well worth watching.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c9CLlQX4_Q

[Robert Goren]

This is well worth watching.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c9CLlQX4_QA contender for flavor of the day. The fact that he is even getting a mention is bad for the GOP. Candidates like Jindal scare the daylights out the very voters they will need to win the presidency in 2016.

[Tom]

Why is that?
He is clean, articulate.

That is ALL Obama had going for him.

[fast4522]

A contender for flavor of the day. The fact that he is even getting a mention is bad for the GOP. Candidates like Jindal scare the daylights out the very voters they will need to win the presidency in 2016.

RG,

You are all wet again, if you actually listen to the video in its entirety it becomes quite obvious the core of the party holds the content of his speech in its platform. It is your party's core that has problems with just about it all. We care not what your belief is, but the freedom for all to choose what is best for you. Several points he hits the nail on the head over and over exposing the filthy agenda of the left.

[Robert Goren]

RG,

You are all wet again, if you actually listen to the video in its entirety it becomes quite obvious the core of the party holds the content of his speech in its platform. It is your party's core that has problems with just about it all. We care not what your belief is, but the freedom for all to choose what is best for you. Several points he hits the nail on the head over and over exposing the filthy agenda of the left.No doubt the core of the GOP is pretty close to him. I never said it was not. I said the core of the country is not very close to him and candidates like him can not win in the fall nationally.

[Robert Goren]

Why is that?
He is clean, articulate.

That is ALL Obama had going for him.He is on a different side than most voters on several key issues. Issues that republicans only like to discuss among themselves and don't like being brought up during the general election because they cost them votes.

[fast4522]

No doubt the core of the GOP is pretty close to him. I never said it was not. I said the core of the country is not very close to him and candidates like him can not win in the fall nationally.

If the core of the party is soft to you, your like Romney.

[reckless]

I am sure the GOP nominee will try that, but I expect the "true believers" in the party will not allow that to happen. They expect the GOP candidate to often and loudly about issues they are concerned about even it cost him the election. Being anti illegal immigration is not an issue that GOP can find many new voters on, despite how strongly the base feels about it. And the base is going to make sure it will be an issue in 2016 whether the nominee wants it to be or not.

Illegal immigration/amnesty, open borders and national security will be the most important issues of the 2016 presidential election.

A GOP candidate who is anti-illegal immigration, anti-amnesty, is pro national security, which includes sealing and protecting both our borders, and pro energy independence will be the person who wins the White House in 2016.

These issues are the views of the majority of the American people. The left wants people to think these issues are fringe issues. Ha! What does the left care what true American patriots and citizens want?

Allowing illegals to vote, to have unfettered access to all health care, education and welfare benefits, are anti-American and unpatriotic views of the one per centers that own and run the Democrat Party. They want an uneducated voting block to keep them in power for future generations. These elites have joined forces with Corporate America and the local Chambers of Commerce who seek cheap and unskilled labor to produce --and buy-- cheap products.

It is the radical Democrat Party, the establishment GOP clowns, and the Fortune 1000 phonies that are out of the mainstream in this country.

The unelectable baby Bush Jeb is a goner as a viable candidate and will be just a minor footnote when historians write about the 2016 presidential election.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Why is that?
He is clean, articulate.

That is ALL Obama had going for him.

I'll miss Joe Biden - no better source of comedy.

[highnote]

A GOP candidate who is anti-illegal immigration, anti-amnesty, is pro national security, which includes sealing and protecting both our borders, and pro energy independence will be the person who wins the White House in 2016.


Which GOP candidate(s) holds these views?

[horses4courses]

Illegal immigration/amnesty, open borders and national security will be the most important issues of the 2016 presidential election.

A GOP candidate who is anti-illegal immigration, anti-amnesty, is pro national security, which includes sealing and protecting both our borders, and pro energy independence will be the person who wins the White House in 2016.

These issues are the views of the majority of the American people. The left wants people to think these issues are fringe issues. Ha! What does the left care what true American patriots and citizens want?

Allowing illegals to vote, to have unfettered access to all health care, education and welfare benefits, are anti-American and unpatriotic views of the one per centers that own and run the Democrat Party. They want an uneducated voting block to keep them in power for future generations. These elites have joined forces with Corporate America and the local Chambers of Commerce who seek cheap and unskilled labor to produce --and buy-- cheap products.

It is the radical Democrat Party, the establishment GOP clowns, and the Fortune 1000 phonies that are out of the mainstream in this country.

The unelectable baby Bush Jeb is a goner as a viable candidate and will be just a minor footnote when historians write about the 2016 presidential election.

You feel so content and secure in your own little fantasy world, don't you?
Then reality sets in and bursts your bubble.
Must be a real pisser......... :lol:

[JustRalph]

I don't disagree with his summation, except for the part implying a Repub might be elected. We are way past that happening. Only a few things could let that sea change occur. They would have to be another terror attack on our soil. A major one. Something that profound. And close to the election

I am all for splitting this country at least three ways. Get it over with

[highnote]

I am all for splitting this country at least three ways. Get it over with

That's an interesting thought. Should states be responsible for stopping illegal immigration or should the federal gov?

Republicans often advocate states rights and smaller federal government.

So why isn't immigration dealt with at the state level?

If a state doesn't like the federal policies they can secede, right?

The south should have seceded from the North without war breaking out. This would have solved a lot of problems. Southern states could have dealt with the immigration problem. Northern states would have to worry about Canadian's immigrating. That has never seemed to be much of a problem, though.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Will Texas be an independent country? Interestingly enough, Texas receives approximately $1.40 from the federal govt for each $1.00 paid in taxes by its citizens to the federal govt. If everyone in Texas agrees to opt out of Social Security and Medicare, the idea would be a godsend to the long-term US fiscal situation. I'm opposed to the idea, but if Texans want it, it would certainly help out the federal govt. I'd expect Texas to maintain its own national defense infrastructure. Take away $1.40 for $1.00, add in defense spending and I suspect Texans would be seeing a whole lot of red (as in huge budget holes).

[Robert Goren]

If the core of the party is soft to you, your like Romney. What the AP poll did not say, or least your headline didn't say. They are going to vote for her anyway. Frustrating, ain't it? The GOP keeps trying to nail her on stuff and sometimes even convince the public they are correct, but it does not matter. Until you and the rest of the GOP figure out why it doesn't matter, you will keep losing the presidential elections. Obama in 2012 was as weak a democratic candidate as you are likely to get in quite some time, yet when all was said and done, it was not all that close.

[Robert Goren]

Illegal immigration/amnesty, open borders and national security will be the most important issues of the 2016 presidential election.

A GOP candidate who is anti-illegal immigration, anti-amnesty, is pro national security, which includes sealing and protecting both our borders, and pro energy independence will be the person who wins the White House in 2016.

. You ran on those issues in 2012 and lost. What makes you think 2016 will be any different? I will say this much, an anti-illegal immigration could win if he did not have carry with him a lot of other right wing baggage. But it is highly unlikely that the GOP nominee will not have that baggage.

[fast4522]

What the AP poll did not say, or least your headline didn't say. They are going to vote for her anyway. Frustrating, ain't it? The GOP keeps trying to nail her on stuff and sometimes even convince the public they are correct, but it does not matter. Until you and the rest of the GOP figure out why it doesn't matter, you will keep losing the presidential elections. Obama in 2012 was as weak a democratic candidate as you are likely to get in quite some time, yet when all was said and done, it was not all that close.

RG,

The only difference between you and Hillary is she is older and has boatloads of money. If the shoe was on the other foot she would be in assisted living. Things change literally overnight, she could be tomorrows political dead raccoon. Frustrating is when it happens, your ilk has had a good run enjoy what is left. True change is when the bill comes due, some here will escape and will never get to see it, others will cry as old men witnessing the misery inflected on their kids.

[reckless]

You feel so content and secure in your own little fantasy world, don't you?
Then reality sets in and bursts your bubble.
Must be a real pisser......... :lol:

Well since the liberal America hating one per centers own the Democrat Party and the corporate elites own the GOP, my assessment of the political scene is far from a fantasy.

Conservatives and patriots will fight and win this civil war and that is the reality.

Another reality is that your brand of far left liberalism is on the ballot in 2016, as is the failed policies of a radical, racist President. Obama will be on the ballot too, if you didn't know. And, then there is the additional choice we will be blessed with: the Democrats want serial failure and the consistently corrupt, Hillary Rodham to be President.

Please tell us this: how could a liberal such as yourself support a Democrat Party that has caused the near total destruction of the black family, ruined a once vibrant US economy, destroyed the greatest health care system on earth and, by selling out to the aforementioned one per centers, eliminated the blue collar manufacturing working class?

Your radical anti-American US president said the other day that the reason behind the destruction in Baltimore was because of uneducated black men and teenagers having no jobs, no education and even less hope for the future. (Obama did fail to mention that the Democrat Party has run Baltimore and most of the large urban cities nationwide for over 60 years! But I digress.)

So, how is it by allowing 10-15 million more uneducated and unskilled illegal aliens into the labor force benefit uneducated, unskilled black US citizens in finding work?

[reckless]

Which GOP candidate(s) holds these views?

Well the only one who has been both early and consistently against amnesty and open borders is the great Ted Cruz. The other GOP candidates have some unwarranted 'history' on this serious and important issue.

Most of them will eventually know that our US sovereignty is threatened and under attack by the left and corporate elites. Some will be forced to revise their position but what some of them don't realize is that conservatives are wise to these games they play. We'll decide who to believe, trust and who to put our support behind.

I do know it won't be Bush, Christie, Paul, Romney, Rubio, nor any candidate that Karl Rove promotes as 'the only candidate that could defeat Hillary'. :lol: :lol:

Both Scott Walker and Rick Perry are acceptable options (along with Cruz, of course,) but they both need work, a lot of work.

[horses4courses]

Well since the liberal America hating one per centers own the Democrat Party and the corporate elites own the GOP, my assessment of the political scene is far from a fantasy.

Conservatives and patriots will fight and win this civil war and that is the reality.

Another reality is that your brand of far left liberalism is on the ballot in 2016, as is the failed policies of a radical, racist President. Obama will be on the ballot too, if you didn't know. And, then there is the additional choice we will be blessed with: the Democrats want serial failure and the consistently corrupt, Hillary Rodham to be President.

Please tell us this: how could a liberal such as yourself support a Democrat Party that has caused the near total destruction of the black family, ruined a once vibrant US economy, destroyed the greatest health care system on earth and, by selling out to the aforementioned one per centers, eliminated the blue collar manufacturing working class?

Your radical anti-American US president said the other day that the reason behind the destruction in Baltimore was because of uneducated black men and teenagers having no jobs, no education and even less hope for the future. (Obama did fail to mention that the Democrat Party has run Baltimore and most of the large urban cities nationwide for over 60 years! But I digress.)

So, how is it by allowing 10-15 million more uneducated and unskilled illegal aliens into the labor force benefit uneducated, unskilled black US citizens in finding work?

If you long for the way America used to be,
tax millionaires, support a union, and buy American.

Otherwise, I guess it's more Cleaver and Mayberry reruns...... :rolleyes:

[reckless]

Please tell us this: how could a liberal such as yourself support a Democrat Party that has caused the near total destruction of the black family, ruined a once vibrant US economy, destroyed the greatest health care system on earth and, by selling out to the aforementioned one per centers, eliminated the blue collar manufacturing working class?

So, how is it by allowing 10-15 million more uneducated and unskilled illegal aliens into the labor force benefit uneducated, unskilled black US citizens in finding work?

horses4courses, I'll ask you again to comment on the two paragraphs above that I addressed to you earlier. (Others, especially liberals, on this board are welcome to take a shot at it too.)

[horses4courses]

horses4courses, I'll ask you again to comment on the two paragraphs above that I addressed to you earlier. (Others, especially liberals, on this board are welcome to take a shot at it too.)

Your statement is false.
I dismiss what you're saying.
Regularly.

Republicans abandoned the interests of minorities.
Decades ago.

Don't preach to me about the failures of Democrats.

[JustRalph]

Will Texas be an independent country? Interestingly enough, Texas receives approximately $1.40 from the federal govt for each $1.00 paid in taxes by its citizens to the federal govt. If everyone in Texas agrees to opt out of Social Security and Medicare, the idea would be a godsend to the long-term US fiscal situation. I'm opposed to the idea, but if Texans want it, it would certainly help out the federal govt. I'd expect Texas to maintain its own national defense infrastructure. Take away $1.40 for $1.00, add in defense spending and I suspect Texans would be seeing a whole lot of red (as in huge budget holes).

Texans would adjust...........no problem.

[highnote]

Jeb is favored to win the republican nomination at 2-1. Huckabee 5/2, Rubio 7/2, Walker 4/1 and Rand Paul at 10-1. Cruz 27-1, Perry 74-1, Christie and Romney are both 99-1.

Hillary is 1/4 to win the dem nomination.

Jeb is 4-1 to win presidency and Hillary is even money.

I don't know much about Walker, but he looks like he is a serious contender.

Huckabee looks more viable than Jeb, but that won't last long.

Jeb has not officially declared. The reason he hasn't declared is so that he can continue to raise money. Once he says he's running, he has to follow a different set of campaign fundraising rules. He is building up a huge war chest.

Jeb's biggest problem and his biggest asset is probably his brother and father. The U.S. might be a little tired of Bushes in the White House.

We'll see. This is going to be an interesting election.

I'll make a safe prediction:

We are going to see more money spent on the 2016 presidential election than ever before and a lot of money will be wasted to try to get votes from people like me. I will vote for an independent candidate -- not a dem or a repub.





Well the only one who has been both early and consistently against amnesty and open borders is the great Ted Cruz. The other GOP candidates have some unwarranted 'history' on this serious and important issue.

Most of them will eventually know that our US sovereignty is threatened and under attack by the left and corporate elites. Some will be forced to revise their position but what some of them don't realize is that conservatives are wise to these games they play. We'll decide who to believe, trust and who to put our support behind.
Hillary'. :lol: :lol:

I do know it won't be Bush, Christie, Paul, Romney, Rubio, nor any candidate that Karl Rove promotes as 'the only candidate that could defeat
Both Scott Walker and Rick Perry are acceptable options (along with Cruz, of course,) but they both need work, a lot of work.

[reckless]

Your statement is false.
I dismiss what you're saying. Regularly. Republicans abandoned the interests of minorities. Decades ago.

Don't preach to me about the failures of Democrats.

I don't need to preach at all since the record of liberalism and the Democrat Party speaks for itself. But I will preach because you'll learn something for a change.

I don't expect you to know any history -- aside from what you know from Retro TV reruns -- since you've proven countless times you know very little about almost everything.

But, we do know for the record that you support illegal aliens, mostly uneducated and unskilled and it's OK that they take jobs from black US citizens. And, this you support?

And, we do know for the record that you also support the one per centers that destroyed the manufacturing industry here and are now attempting to destroy our domestic energy industry as well. And that's OK too since this also eliminates well-paying, blue collar labor jobs. And, this you support?

If you think adding 10-15 million unskilled, uneducated illegal aliens to the labor force doesn't hurt both black American citizens and the overall US economy, then your economic acumen is truly scary and laughable.

[Clocker]

If you long for the way America used to be,
tax millionaires, support a union, and buy American.


You don't think that millionaires are taxed today? Many people in the upper brackets pay more than 50% of their income in a multitude of taxes.

Unions did good and needed work when the employers were not micromanaged by the government. They are increasingly superfluous today. Note that the growth sector for the unions is in government employees. Government employees need unions to protect them against predatory capitalist bosses?

Buy American? Two problems there. What's American? How many GM cars are largely or totally produced in other countries. The world has changed. And government policies (taxes, EPA, etc.) in this country make it economically insane not to move a lot of work off shore.

[Tom]

Don't preach to me about the failures of Democrats.

Brings back too many bad memories, huh? :D

[Saratoga_Mike]

Texans would adjust...........no problem.

This whole "Texas should be its own country" thing reminds me of upstate NYers wanting to breakaway from downstate. In reality, many more tax dollars flow to the north from the south (NYC/surrounding counties) than vs. vice-versa. Both ideas are bad, imo.

[TJDave]

But, we do know for the record that you support illegal aliens, mostly uneducated and unskilled and it's OK that they take jobs from black US citizens. And, this you support?

Not taking jobs from blacks. The blacks don't want them. It's mainly lower class whites who are affected. Illegals make good employees. They work hard and don't/can't complain. They are the antithesis of the American low-wage worker.

[fast4522]

Rick Santorum puts hat into race. I think he is a hard sell for the nomination but could be quite interesting in the two spot. Long ago it was said the Vice Presidency was not worth a warm bucket of spit, today it could be a very big voting block.

[Clocker]

Rick Santorum puts hat into race. Long ago it was said the Vice Presidency was not worth a warm bucket of spit, today it could be a very big voting block.

I can't imagine anybody that would be influenced by Santorum would ever vote for a Dem.

[Robert Goren]

A few comments on ideas posted in this thread. First, immigrants are only satisfied with bottom level jobs for a generation or two. Their kids are not happy being a part of " the permanent underclass". Second, the main reason that so many things are produced overseas is the strong dollar. To give credit where credit is due, The strong dollar was a product of the Clinton administration and like every bad democratic ideas has been almost universally adopted by the republicans. Third, the weakness of GOP field is becoming increasing apparent. It is filled with candidates who have either not held political office or have been out of office for quite a while. In a good year, you would never hear the names of people like Jeb or Carly or Santorum or Huckabee mentioned. The race would be between Rubio, Paul, Christie and Graham. I believe that Christie would have beaten Obama had he ran in 2012. He may have waited too long. Although I like a lot of what Paul says, he is hurt by his refusal to distance himself from the religious right and the fact that he is crazier than a loon. Rubio is an interesting candidate. He like most republicans will be hurt by the far right in the general and I am not sure that the GOP will nominate a Hispanic (even if he is the more acceptable Cuban). He has the feel of a VP candidate to me. Graham, while about as far right as you can get, has been running for the 2016 nomination for at least 8 years. He has carefully crafted an image as someone who is willing to compromise. In truth, he has never actually done so when push came to shove. He has some sort of shot, if he can raise enough money. Walker peaked too early and will be one of the early dropouts. Jeb Bush reminds me of modern day John Connally, a candidate with all the money he needs, but none of the votes. I think there is a real chance he may be gone after South Carolina. A lot of people want Christie because they think he can win. His cause isn't helped by the fact that NJ has not boomed under him, but the hurricane is at least partially responsible for that. He can make a pretty strong case that NJ was headed in the right direction before it struck. I think he emerges as a real contender when and if Bush drops out. God help us, but right now I think Rand Paul is the most likely nominee. I also think he has about a 40% chance of beating Hillary, if he gets it because a lot of Americans are very tired of being the World's policeman. Their numbers grow every day. Christie has about an even chance of beating her. I really doubt that any other republican has more than a 20% of beating her. I think a lot of voters would like to vote for somebody other than Hillary, but the GOP is unlikely to nominate anyone they can vote for. I see the race ending up much like it did in 2012. A democratic candidate that can be beaten, but the GOP refuses to step up and do what is necessary to win.

[Robert Goren]

I can't imagine anybody that would be influenced by Santorum would ever vote for a Dem.Me either.

[fast4522]

RG,

Many are thinking its the immigrants election next out, I think it is more going to be the blocks coming together for the right next time. I think no other group will feel that they got the shaft greater than the younger Americans who will vote next, combine that with the Jewish that you no longer can take for granted. Many voting blocks who might not roll with the old lady besides the ones mentioned. Now before you start throwing around 40 % this and NJ booming economy that consider the general election will be much closer than you are willing to admit and the independent voters just might hand you your ass. The race is young and by right often goes to the younger looking, don't go all in on jowls just yet.

[horses4courses]

Rick Santorum puts hat into race.

The clown car just got a little more crowded........

[fast4522]

The clown car just got a little more crowded........

And that is all you got, your party is out of ideas.

[Robert Goren]

RG,

Many are thinking its the immigrants election next out, I think it is more going to be the blocks coming together for the right next time. I think no other group will feel that they got the shaft greater than the younger Americans who will vote next, combine that with the Jewish that you no longer can take for granted. Many voting blocks who might not roll with the old lady besides the ones mentioned. Now before you start throwing around 40 % this and NJ booming economy that consider the general election will be much closer than you are willing to admit and the independent voters just might hand you your ass. The race is young and by right often goes to the younger looking, don't go all in on jowls just yet.I think you under estimate how much religious right hurts the GOP. Issues like Gay marriage and insurance coverage for birth control really hurt the GOP with younger and independent voters. Whoever the GOP nominee is, he is going have tough time because the far-out views of too many of his party.
Anybody who thinks that blacks are going to start voting republican without the republicans moving on some issues. If the GOP were to start to show some appreciation on how the police treat Blacks, they might have a chance. It is hard to find a Black man, who does not think Blacks get "special treatment" from the police. Most Black men have at least one personal story to relate.
Hillary can be beat, but the GOP has to get the message out that the far right is not going to be calling the shots. A pro business message with a candidate who actually grew a business (expanding the number of workers, not just profits) could be winning message if they are able to distance themselves from what many people consider kooks. I am still amaze that the party that claims to be pro business has members who vote against the import-export bank in Congress. That is just plain crazy.

[fast4522]

Maybe I am wrong and your right, we both have been wrong before right? Consider the whole world is drowning in a sea of debt, this economy has no growth left. At some point you will admit that your time is over and it was a good run. I am not speaking of you, ideology is what we can be thankful for others willing to participate in the process.

[PaceAdvantage]

I think you under estimate how much religious right hurts the GOP. Hurts? Or maybe a wash? It's pretty doubtful there are that many current Democrat voters just waiting for the RR to go away completely before they are finally able to vote Republican... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Your premise is a bit faulty.

[reckless]

The clown car just got a little more crowded........

And that is all you got, your party is out of ideas.

That is what all the lefties and the Democrats have and are all about.

It is a Democrat Party of (very) old white people.

[Tom]

And that is all you got, your party is out of ideas.

That party never had more than one idea - steal from the rich.

[fast4522]

Well. . . . . . . . .


The truth is they are stealing from the middle class and our kids.

[horses4courses]

Uh huhh.....this will get your address changed to Pennsylvania Ave. real fast :rolleyes:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CGIsLJIU4AAg1Tn.jpg

[Tom]

It's 2015 - time to put away your comic books and start reading adult material.

[Robert Goren]

Hurts? Or maybe a wash? It's pretty doubtful there are that many current Democrat voters just waiting for the RR to go away completely before they are finally able to vote Republican... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Your premise is a bit faulty.I think about 15-20% of democratic voters would on occasion vote for a GOP candidate, if the GOP candidate was a better candidate than the democratic one if they were not scared of the influence that the religious right has on GOP office holders. That fear maybe unrealistic as it pertains to most GOP office holders, but it is there none the less. Somehow the religious right gets it way just often enough to keep that fear alive. A case in point, how many young women voters that might like a GOP candidate enough to vote him, but may not because almost every republican out there supported Hobby Lobby in their attempt not to provide insurance coverage for the pill? I think the number is quite a few especially considering they see it as a pattern of attempting impose their morality on them. Anybody who thinks that insurance coverage for the pill is not a big issue for young women has not talk to very many young women about it.

[Hoofless_Wonder]

It's hard to gauge the effect that religion has in politics, at least for me. When Reagan was elected in 1980 I was very leery of what he might do - along with sending me off to wage some war in a ditch in Central America.

But then Ronny seemed to suffer a memory loss of some sort, and the moral "third rail" issues that Jerry Falwell and his ilk wanted seemed to fade by the wayside.

Then in 1992, IMHO, Pat Buchanan didn't do the Republicans any favors with his keynote address at the convention. Americans do NOT like being preached at, not even in their own churches, if attendance numbers are accurate.

If Americans can elect Clinton and Obama, who are about as Christian as the Dalai Lama, then it's difficult to convince me that religion matters. It definitely seems to be better to stay on more neutral ground on the moral issues, which of course the religious right won't tolerate....

[Tom]

Anybody who thinks that insurance coverage for the pill is not a big issue for young women has not talk to very many young women about it.

But not a health issue.
It is a lifestyle issue and a choice.

So I should not have to pay a nickel for it.

[Saratoga_Mike]

If Americans can elect Clinton and Obama, who are about as Christian as the Dalai Lama, then it's difficult to convince me that religion matters. It definitely seems to be better to stay on more neutral ground on the moral issues, which of course the religious right won't tolerate....

You need to research this matter. Polling shows that an atheist running for office has much higher negatives than a Muslim or Mormon running for office. To be clear, I'm not saying any of those beliefs should be viewed negatively. I'm just stating a public opinion fact. There was an article on this matter in Times or Wash Post in the past couple of months. It was written by an atheist (she made the point I just posted). I'll try to post it later.

[Tom]

When you look at election results and polls, you have to wonder is anyone out there actually thinking? We are a nation of idiots, basically.

[lamboguy]

When you look at election results and polls, you have to wonder is anyone out there actually thinking? We are a nation of idiots, basically.with children that need play dates and have to have their mother's picking them up from school (for good reason's these days) its only going to get worse.

we live in a different America than it was in the 1950's. the way they do things in Israel is probably the best way, everyone has to sign up for the military before they can go to college, people learn to put their country first over there.

[Hoofless_Wonder]

You need to research this matter. Polling shows that an atheist running for office has much higher negatives than a Muslim or Mormon running for office. To be clear, I'm not saying any of those beliefs should be viewed negatively. I'm just stating a public opinion fact. There was an article on this matter in Times or Wash Post in the past couple of months. It was written by an atheist (she made the point I just posted). I'll try to post it later.

I'll agree that for the moment, a candidate for President at least has to claim to be a Christian, or they will suffer at the polls. But I'm just not sure how much weight the religious right carries these days when it comes to influencing the platform. And if this poll is accurate, then it won't be long before an atheist might have a shot at the White House.

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/teens-are-fleeing-religion-like-never-before-massive-new-study-exposes-religions-decline/

[Saratoga_Mike]

I'll agree that for the moment, a candidate for President at least has to claim to be a Christian, or they will suffer at the polls. But I'm just not sure how much weight the religious right carries these days when it comes to influencing the platform. And if this poll is accurate, then it won't be long before an atheist might have a shot at the White House.

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/teens-are-fleeing-religion-like-never-before-massive-new-study-exposes-religions-decline/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/19/presidential-poll-atheists_n_5353524.html

Not the article I was referencing, but provides the same polling data.

[ReplayRandall]

And if this poll is accurate, then it won't be long before an atheist might have a shot at the White House.

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/teens-are-fleeing-religion-like-never-before-massive-new-study-exposes-religions-decline/
Are you serious, or is this exaggeration and hyperbole of some obscure point you're trying to make, HW??

[Clocker]

When you look at election results and polls, you have to wonder is anyone out there actually thinking?

What is there to think about? You can vote for Tweedledumb or Tweedledumber.

[Tom]

And now in the race.....Wacky Pataki!

Whoa boy!

[davew]

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/b2/27/97/b227973fa4245db282bc3358ade2c757.jpg

,

[fast4522]

This is more like the real deal.

[Robert Goren]

In my lifetime, all the presidents claimed to be Christians although most had a very lose relationship with religion at least in public. The only president that openly practiced his religious beliefs in public to any great extent was Jimmy Carter. I think most of us can agree he was not a very good president. Public displays of religion by a president does not necessarily make him a good president.

[Tom]

Nor does it make him a bad one.

[horses4courses]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CGSsh-BXIAATNrz.jpg

[RunForTheRoses]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CGSsh-BXIAATNrz.jpg

The demographics of the nation in 2015 must give you a hard on, although not enough to move from your all white enclave and be amongst your brethren.

[Hoofless_Wonder]

Are you serious, or is this exaggeration and hyperbole of some obscure point you're trying to make, HW??

Not sure what your point is RR. I'm totally serious. The President of France (François Hollande) and the Prime Minister of Greece (Alexis Tsipras ) are atheists. Why wouldn't the U.S. some day elect an atheist President?

As a matter of fact, back in 1980 when I was in college I would have bet a large sum of money that an atheist President would be elected before gay marriage would be legalized in any state. Ooops.

Ideally, a candidate's religious beliefs should be a non-factor in an election. The Founding Fathers had it right, with building up the wall separating church and state.

Speaking of Tricky Dick, more Presidential religious hypocrisy on display. Nixon, a Quaker, didn't shoot any animals when going on guided hunts that Ike had previously taken him along on. Not that being a Quaker didn't stop him from ordering the bombing of North Vietnam, killing thousands.....

[highnote]

But not a health issue.
It is a lifestyle issue and a choice.

So I should not have to pay a nickel for it.

Plenty of people overeat and become obese and get heart disease or drink too much alcohol and get liver disease or take drugs which destroy their bodies and minds.

Eating poorly, drinking too much and taking drugs are lifestyle issues and if I want health insurance I have to help subsidize people who choose to not have healthy lifestyles.

[ReplayRandall]

Not sure what your point is RR. I'm totally serious. The President of France (François Hollande) and the Prime Minister of Greece (Alexis Tsipras ) are atheists. Why wouldn't the U.S. some day elect an atheist President?

As a matter of fact, back in 1980 when I was in college I would have bet a large sum of money that an atheist President would be elected before gay marriage would be legalized in any state. Ooops.

Ideally, a candidate's religious beliefs should be a non-factor in an election. The Founding Fathers had it right, with building up the wall separating church and state.

Speaking of Tricky Dick, more Presidential religious hypocrisy on display. Nixon, a Quaker, didn't shoot any animals when going on guided hunts that Ike had previously taken him along on. Not that being a Quaker didn't stop him from ordering the bombing of North Vietnam, killing thousands.....
Rather than proceed with a long discussion about our differences of opinion, I'll just say this: "Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord". I believe that Greece and France will both suffer greatly for their choices in leadership, far worse than our poor choices in the last 25 years.......

[JustRalph]

Not taking jobs from blacks. The blacks don't want them. It's mainly lower class whites who are affected. Illegals make good employees. They work hard and don't/can't complain. They are the antithesis of the American low-wage worker.

I find this to be true, here in Texas.

MD was a little bit of a different story. But mostly true.

[Tom]

If you are on welfare or any other assistance, and don't want a job, then you should lose your benefits. You don't get to choose what jobs you want when someone else is supporting you.

[classhandicapper]

Not sure what your point is RR. I'm totally serious. The President of France (François Hollande) and the Prime Minister of Greece (Alexis Tsipras ) are atheists. Why wouldn't the U.S. some day elect an atheist President?



If you are a religious person, an atheist president would probably be a step in the right direction. Our current direction seems more Satanic. At least an atheist might be somewhere in the middle. ;)

[classhandicapper]

Rant for the day:

There was a time in this country the left was made up of people that had legitimate concerns and points about the environment and how we account or don't account for pollution in our profit loss statements.

They rightly had concerns about our involvement overseas where we were losing men, women, and treasure for no justifiable reason.

They were concerned about poverty and proposed solutions. I disagreed with those solutions, but at least they were ideas that were addressing real problems.

John and Robert Kennedy and even Bill Clinton were that kind of democrat. You could disagree with them, but they were unquestionably intelligent, thoughtful, loved America and the values it was found upon etc...

I'm sure people like that are still out there.

But at this point the left has been captured by people that are more of a delusional, mentally ill, God hating, satanic cult that hates America. I feel like I'm living in the age of the anti-Christ.

Even if I hate the republican candidate that's put up, I can't imagine myself ever pulling the lever for a democrat again.

[horses4courses]

But at this point the left has been captured by people that are more of a delusional, mentally ill, God hating, satanic cult that hates America. I feel like I'm living in the age of the anti-Christ.

You're definitely not alone thinking that way.
I believe that some on the Right have thought this way for decades, though.

[TJDave]

Rant for the day:

There was a time in this country the left was made up of people that had legitimate concerns and points about the environment and how we account or don't account for pollution in our profit loss statements.

They rightly had concerns about our involvement overseas where we were losing men, women, and treasure for no justifiable reason.

They were concerned about poverty and proposed solutions. I disagreed with those solutions, but at least they were ideas that were addressing real problems.

John and Robert Kennedy and even Bill Clinton were that kind of democrat. You could disagree with them, but they were unquestionably intelligent, thoughtful, loved America and the values it was found upon etc...

I'm sure people like that are still out there.

But at this point the left has been captured by people that are more of a delusional, mentally ill, God hating, satanic cult that hates America. I feel like I'm living in the age of the anti-Christ.

Even if I hate the republican candidate that's put up, I can't imagine myself ever pulling the lever for a democrat again.

There are those on the opposite end of the political spectrum who mirror your beliefs. More of them, actually.

[classhandicapper]

There are those on the opposite end of the political spectrum who mirror your beliefs. More of them, actually.

I know. Most the them have bifurcated tails and horns. ;)

[TJDave]

I know. Most the them have bifurcated tails and horns. ;)

And vote.

[Hoofless_Wonder]

Rather than proceed with a long discussion about our differences of opinion, I'll just say this: "Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord". I believe that Greece and France will both suffer greatly for their choices in leadership, far worse than our poor choices in the last 25 years.......

Until a country actually has voters that wise up and remove the oligarchs and the banksters from owning the elections, I don't think it much matters what religious beliefs the political leaders claim to hold. And as far as theocracies go, today's world has numerous examples of why you don't necessarily want to govern by "God is the Lord", 'cause there's no guarantee you're talking about the same God as the next guy.

On the other hand, we may agree that a lack of moral compass is one of the major problems in the world today. I don't know how to fix that, but I'm not sold that "religious" leaders have cornered the market on having decent values. The poor leaders we have today are a reflection on our society, and it won't be until Americans once again embrace the role of duty-bound citizens that the tide may turn.....

[reckless]

As expected, the baby Bush Jeb announced today a run for the GOP nomination for President of the USA.

Expect a 24/7 lovefest for Jeb coming from Fox News. I am also sure of favorable coverage of Jeb will also come from unlikely liberal media bastions such as the New York Times, Washington Post, CBS, et al. For the time being that is.

The left wing media wants Bush to be the GOP nominee so they'll initially refrain from attacking him (and his brother's record) until --if-- he gets the nomination.

You see, Jeb Bush is the easiest candidate of all the GOP hopefuls for serial failure and Queen of Corruption, Hillary Clinton, could defeat in 2016.

It's a shame the electronic and popular media is so compromised. Journalists, tried and true, they are not.

[Robert Goren]

As expected, the baby Bush Jeb announced today a run for the GOP nomination for President of the USA.

Expect a 24/7 lovefest for Jeb coming from Fox News. I am also sure of favorable coverage of Jeb will also come from unlikely liberal media bastions such as the New York Times, Washington Post, CBS, et al. For the time being that is.

The left wing media wants Bush to be the GOP nominee so they'll initially refrain from attacking him (and his brother's record) until --if-- he gets the nomination.

You see, Jeb Bush is the easiest candidate of all the GOP hopefuls for serial failure and Queen of Corruption, Hillary Clinton, could defeat in 2016.

It's a shame the electronic and popular media is so compromised. Journalists, tried and true, they are not.If Jeb Bush's last name wasn't Bush, he would have a chance of beating Hillary. But it is and he doesn't. That said, there are GOP hopefuls who would get few votes and fewer electoral college votes than Bush. For that list, all you have to do is rank the hopefuls you like the best. The conservative favorites are the ones most out of touch with the American voters. A couple these guys are so bad that they would have trouble carrying Alabama and Mississippi. But they are not going to be the nominee.

[Clocker]

If Jeb Bush's last name wasn't Bush, he would have a chance of beating Hillary.

Bush? I don't see any Bush! :p



https://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/jeb1.jpg

[Clocker]

I don't see any Clinton either. What's all this about legacies and dynasties? :p

http://www.mrctv.org/sites/default/files/uploads/Dan%203/Screen%20Shot%202015-04-14%20at%2011.14.38%20AM.png

[TJDave]

I don't see any Clinton either. What's all this about legacies and dynasties? :p

http://www.mrctv.org/sites/default/files/uploads/Dan%203/Screen%20Shot%202015-04-14%20at%2011.14.38%20AM.png

The arrow is assbackwards

[TJDave]

It's a shame the electronic and popular media is so compromised. Journalists, tried and true, they are not.

What the media says...That's how you decide to vote?

[badcompany]

The arrow is assbackwards

When I first saw Hillary's logo, I thought Van Halen were running:

[fast4522]

If Jeb Bush's last name wasn't Bush, he would have a chance of beating Hillary. But it is and he doesn't. That said, there are GOP hopefuls who would get few votes and fewer electoral college votes than Bush. For that list, all you have to do is rank the hopefuls you like the best. The conservative favorites are the ones most out of touch with the American voters. A couple these guys are so bad that they would have trouble carrying Alabama and Mississippi. But they are not going to be the nominee.

Although not my first pick, I think several can beat Hillary including Bush. I think the Presidency has a long tradition of Wool versus polyester. Heck even JR thinks we are doomed, me thinks he lives in a nice place that has more independent thought than most places. While the left has always had a dislike for middle ground, the right has a growing dislike for everyone who can't cut living middle ground. The middle class might feel that they have been raped and want revenge.

[Tom]

As expected, the baby Bush Jeb announced today a run for the GOP nomination for President of the USA.

Expect a 24/7 lovefest for Jeb coming from Fox News. I am also sure of favorable coverage of Jeb will also come from unlikely liberal media bastions such as the New York Times, Washington Post, CBS, et al. For the time being that is.

The left wing media wants Bush to be the GOP nominee so they'll initially refrain from attacking him (and his brother's record) until --if-- he gets the nomination.

You see, Jeb Bush is the easiest candidate of all the GOP hopefuls for serial failure and Queen of Corruption, Hillary Clinton, could defeat in 2016.

It's a shame the electronic and popular media is so compromised. Journalists, tried and true, they are not.

I listened to his speech today an I am confused....is he running for president of the US or Mexico??

Here' my litmus test - if a candidate speaks anything but English, he is not fit to be potus. We are one people with one language, and if he is too stupid to understand that, I want nothing to do with him.

[reckless]

What the media says...That's how you decide to vote?

By asking this question I assume that you never read a post of mine pertaining to all matters political.

If I needed and heeded the mainstream popular media for political news and voting advice I'd have been a Democrat left wing dweeb like many posters here.

[reckless]

I listened to his speech today an I am confused....is he running for president of the US or Mexico??

Here' my litmus test - if a candidate speaks anything but English, he is not fit to be potus. We are one people with one language, and if he is too stupid to understand that, I want nothing to do with him.

Tom, correcto-mundo, amigo.

[fast4522]

He is making the effort to entice a voting block, one could hardly fault him for that. Without grouping voting blocks one can NOT win, some of y'all have to get with the program.

[TJDave]

Here' my litmus test - if a candidate speaks anything but English, he is not fit to be potus. We are one people with one language, and if he is too stupid to understand that, I want nothing to do with him.

List of multilingual presidents of the United States:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_multilingual_presidents_of_the_United_Stat es

[Tom]

Tom, correcto-mundo, amigo.

Si.

[Tom]

List of multilingual presidents of the United States:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_multilingual_presidents_of_the_United_Stat es
Being multi lingual is not a problem.
When you address the people of the US, you speak English. Period.
Your job is to unite, not divide.

[reckless]

He is making the effort to entice a voting block, one could hardly fault him for that. Without grouping voting blocks one can NOT win, some of y'all have to get with the program.

Why doesn't Jeb! try to make an effort to entice the voting block that the GOP can't win without -- conservative, working class, American citizens.

It is the mainstream GOP that has to get with the program.

[reckless]

Bush? I don't see any Bush! :p


https://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/jeb1.jpg

Today, baby Bush Jeb! spoke well of the greatest president of my lifetime, Ronald Reagan. I guess baby Bush Jeb! felt a need to latch into somewhat to the conservative Reagan legacy.

What was really odd is that baby Bush Jeb! never even mentioned either G. H. W. (Pappy) Bush or big bruddah G. W. Bush.

Oh those Bush presidents --- a lot to be proud of, huh Jeb!

[Robert Goren]

Why doesn't Jeb! try to make an effort to entice the voting block that the GOP can't win without -- conservative, working class, American citizens.

It is the mainstream GOP that has to get with the program.So these hard right wing voters are going to vote for Hillary if Jeb is the nominee? I doubt that. But there are plenty of moderates who might vote Jeb who will definitely vote Hillary if Ted Cruz or Rick Santorum is the nominee. The truth of the matter is unless you are willing to vote for Hillary, if the GOP does not give you what you want, there is no need for them to worry about your vote. You are stuck between the proverbial rock and a hard place.

[Robert Goren]

Today, baby Bush Jeb! spoke well of the greatest president of my lifetime, Ronald Reagan. I guess baby Bush Jeb! felt a need to latch into somewhat to the conservative Reagan legacy.

What was really odd is that baby Bush Jeb! never even mentioned either G. H. W. (Pappy) Bush or big bruddah G. W. Bush.

Oh those Bush presidents --- a lot to be proud of, huh Jeb!If you take a look at Reagan's record as president, Jeb Bush would be quite a bit to the right of Reagan. For instance, Reagan's immigrant law was far more generous to illegals than anything purposed by Obama or any other democrat recently.

[reckless]

So these hard right wing voters are going to vote for Hillary if Jeb is the nominee? I doubt that.

You are correct, Robert. I doubt it, too. Speaking for myself and for other hard (?) right wing voters, if Jeb! is the GOP nominee we will not vote for him. Nor will we vote for Hillary!

But there are plenty of moderates who might vote Jeb who will definitely vote Hillary if Ted Cruz or Rick Santorum is the nominee.

These so-called 'moderates' that Democrats and GOP consultants claim must be won over for the GOP to win is a lie and patently laughable. This is a ruse made on behalf of the liberal establishment of the GOP.

You say moderates may never vote for a Ted Cruz or a Rick Santorum -- which I personally don't believe they won't -- but don't think for a second these so-called moderates will ever vote for Jeb! instead of a Hillary or any other Democrat. They won't.

The truth of the matter is unless you are willing to vote for Hillary, if the GOP does not give you what you want, there is no need for them to worry about your vote. You are stuck between the proverbial rock and a hard place.

Me, and other true conservatives, are not stuck between a rock and a hard place as you might suggest. Again, we won't vote for Hillary out of spite. We'll just stay home. Which is a vote for Hillary, I know that, but so what. The GOP doesn't care nor know how the base feels. And, what has Jeb! ever, ever, ever done for the conservative movement or moderate conservative candidates? (The short answer: he's done nothing).

The GOP has a lot to worry about pertaining to voting by conservatives. The GOP will not win in November without a strong conservative turnout for their nominee. It's very plain and simple. That's what the Karl Rove-corporate owned elite GOP establishment doesn't get it and that's why the GOP keeps losing national elections.

But, the bottom line, Robert, is that all this will later prove to be an exercise in nothing because Jeb! will not be the GOP nominee.

He is not a conservative despite what he says and what Fox News claims. He is out of the mainstream of both the GOP base and that of the entire country. He's simply wrong on the important issues of our time.

How could people even think baby Bush Jeb! is a front-runner or the main contender when right out of the box he'll lose very big come Iowa; he'll then get thumped in New Hampshire, and then it's on to South Carolina, where there will be another resounding rejection awaiting him.

Quickly, it's oh-and-three for the GOP 'front-runner'.

And, thankfully, very, very soon after that it's hasta le vista, baby.

[Robert Goren]

You are correct, Robert. I doubt it, too. Speaking for myself and for other hard (?) right wing voters, if Jeb! is the GOP nominee we will not vote for him. Nor will we vote for Hillary!



These so-called 'moderates' that Democrats and GOP consultants claim must be won over for the GOP to win is a lie and patently laughable. This is a ruse made on behalf of the liberal establishment of the GOP.

You say moderates may never vote for a Ted Cruz or a Rick Santorum -- which I personally don't believe they won't -- but don't think for a second these so-called moderates will ever vote for Jeb! instead of a Hillary or any other Democrat. They won't.



Me, and other true conservatives, are not stuck between a rock and a hard place as you might suggest. Again, we won't vote for Hillary out of spite. We'll just stay home. Which is a vote for Hillary, I know that, but so what. The GOP doesn't care nor know how the base feels. And, what has Jeb! ever, ever, ever done for the conservative movement or moderate conservative candidates? (The short answer: he's done nothing).

The GOP has a lot to worry about pertaining to voting by conservatives. The GOP will not win in November without a strong conservative turnout for their nominee. It's very plain and simple. That's what the Karl Rove-corporate owned elite GOP establishment doesn't get it and that's why the GOP keeps losing national elections.

But, the bottom line, Robert, is that all this will later prove to be an exercise in nothing because Jeb! will not be the GOP nominee.

He is not a conservative despite what he says and what Fox News claims. He is out of the mainstream of both the GOP base and that of the entire country. He's simply wrong on the important issues of our time.

How could people even think baby Bush Jeb! is a front-runner or the main contender when right out of the box he'll lose very big come Iowa; he'll then get thumped in New Hampshire, and then it's on to South Carolina, where there will be another resounding rejection awaiting him.

Quickly, it's oh-and-three for the GOP 'front-runner'.

And, thankfully, very, very soon after that it's hasta le vista, baby.Staying at home is the same as voting for Hillary. It would guarantee a Hillary victory. I know some of you conservatives don't see a difference between Jeb and Hillary, but us liberals do. A very big difference in fact.

[Tom]

Big differences.
Jeb! is a human being!

[TJDave]

If the democrats can equal voter turnout of the last general election, it won't make a bit of difference whether or not conservatives stay home. The conservative voter isn't the determining factor in key electoral states. To win, republicans need to chip away at the Latino voter while keeping blacks from the polls.

[classhandicapper]

Staying at home is the same as voting for Hillary. It would guarantee a Hillary victory. I know some of you conservatives don't see a difference between Jeb and Hillary, but us liberals do. A very big difference in fact.

One is a demon and the other is Satan herself? ;)

[reckless]

Staying at home is the same as voting for Hillary. It would guarantee a Hillary victory. I know some of you conservatives don't see a difference between Jeb and Hillary, but us liberals do. A very big difference in fact.

What are the big differences you (and other liberals) see between baby Bush Jeb! and Hillary!

Jeb! supports amnesty and open borders.

Hillary! supports amnesty and open borders.

Jeb! supports common core.

Hillary! supports common core.

Jeb! is for a strong top down federal government interfering in every facet of our daily lives.

Hillary! is for a strong top down federal government interfering in every facet of our daily lives.

Hillary! is an enemy of the state of Israel.

Jeb! by bringing in known anti-Semite James Baker to a high-profile advisory role could now be considered an enemy of Israel, just like daddy, Pappy Bush, was.

Gee, Robert, that's a lot of similarities between Jeb! and Hillary! and I don't mean the exclamation point following their names.

[Tom]

Jeb! looks better in a pants suit.

[Robert Goren]

What are the big differences you (and other liberals) see between baby Bush Jeb! and Hillary!

Jeb! supports amnesty and open borders.

Hillary! supports amnesty and open borders.

Jeb! supports common core.

Hillary! supports common core.

Jeb! is for a strong top down federal government interfering in every facet of our daily lives.

Hillary! is for a strong top down federal government interfering in every facet of our daily lives.

Hillary! is an enemy of the state of Israel.

Jeb! by bringing in known anti-Semite James Baker to a high-profile advisory role could now be considered an enemy of Israel, just like daddy, Pappy Bush, was.

Gee, Robert, that's a lot of similarities between Jeb! and Hillary! and I don't mean the exclamation point following their names.So Jeb supports Common Core. He is looking better. So many republicans oppose anything that will improve the quality of the education of our kids getting. Heaven forbid that we have a nation program that emphasizes learning over local school boards that emphasize winning sports teams that we have now. Do you realize that school districts now hire people who do nothing but coach athletics. My niece in Arizona was married to one of those jokers. Your tax dollars at work. I wonder how Ted Cruz and company feel about that.

[PaceAdvantage]

So Jeb supports Common Core. He is looking better. So many republicans oppose anything that will improve the quality of the education of our kids getting. Heaven forbid that we have a nation program that emphasizes learning over local school boards that emphasize winning sports teams that we have now. Do you realize that school districts now hire people who do nothing but coach athletics. My niece in Arizona was married to one of those jokers. Your tax dollars at work. I wonder how Ted Cruz and company feel about that.Funny...the kids along with the parents of such kids I know here in NY all think common core stinks...

And from what I know of common core (not being a parent myself), I can see why they hold that opinion.

Even the teachers of some of these kids express their disdain for common core.

[MutuelClerk]

I hope The Donald lasts until the debates. Must see TV. Unlike The Apprentice.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Funny...the kids along with the parents of such kids I know here in NY all think common core stinks...

And from what I know of common core (not being a parent myself), I can see why they hold that opinion.

Even the teachers of some of these kids express their disdain for common core.

What do they hate? It isn't a curriculum. CC simply outlines what students should know (e.g., a 9th grader should know what the Bill of Rights is*).

Can't we all agree a 9th grader should know about the Bill of Rights? Doesn't seem controversial to me, but many oppose it.

I'm sure the teachers dislike it - there's potential accountability associated with it (the students either know about the Bill of Rights or they don't).

*example, not sure if it's 9th grade requirement or not

[JustRalph]

So Jeb supports Common Core. He is looking better. So many republicans oppose anything that will improve the quality of the education of our kids getting. Heaven forbid that we have a nation program that emphasizes learning over local school boards that emphasize winning sports teams that we have now. Do you realize that school districts now hire people who do nothing but coach athletics. My niece in Arizona was married to one of those jokers. Your tax dollars at work. I wonder how Ted Cruz and company feel about that.

So against States rights, for central government. Classic socialist huh Bobby?

[MutuelClerk]

I can see Fox News with a new theme. Listen to a story about a man named Jeb......

[Saratoga_Mike]

So against States rights, for central government. Classic socialist huh Bobby?

Johnny should know about the Bill of Rights.

Johnny should know who was the first president of the United States.

Johnny should know about the Civil War.

Common Core - basic knowledge. Socialism? Doubtful. Would Bobby Jindal support socialism? Wait, he supported CC before he opposed it - gutless. "Oh you mean the base opposes it? Oh, then I do too."

[reckless]

Johnny should know about the Bill of Rights.

Johnny should know who was the first president of the United States.

Johnny should know about the Civil War.

Common Core - basic knowledge. Socialism? Doubtful. Would Bobby Jindal support socialism? Wait, he supported CC before he opposed it - gutless. "Oh you mean the base opposes it? Oh, then I do too."

According to Jindal, the totalitarians from DC told him the ideals and goals for Common Core. When all was said and done, things promised Louisiana and the local schools were not kept... curriculum, standards, the works.

It was all a big fat lie, typical of the nazis-style modus operandi of this gov't . That's why he opted out of Common Core, not because some poll of his conservative base said CC sucks.

And clowns like baby Bush Jeb! supports this.

[reckless]

So Jeb supports Common Core. He is looking better. So many republicans oppose anything that will improve the quality of the education of our kids getting. Heaven forbid that we have a nation program that emphasizes learning over local school boards that emphasize winning sports teams that we have now. Do you realize that school districts now hire people who do nothing but coach athletics. My niece in Arizona was married to one of those jokers. Your tax dollars at work. I wonder how Ted Cruz and company feel about that.

You still didn't tell us Robert how Jeb! and Hillary! differ. I gave you a bunch of reasons how they were the same. Now, go to work and convince us. :)

[Saratoga_Mike]

According to Jindal, the totalitarians from DC told him the ideals and goals for Common Core. When all was said and done, things promised Louisiana and the local schools were not kept... curriculum, standards, the works.

It was all a big fat lie, typical of the nazis-style modus operandi of this gov't . That's why he opted out of Common Core, not because some poll of his conservative base said CC sucks.

And clowns like baby Bush Jeb! supports this.

You are free to oppose CC, and I assume you do so on principle. But that makes you different than Jindal. He opposes it now because he didn't realize the base was opposed to it. Promises from the federal govt? Why would he have ever wanted a federal handout? Profiles in gutless politicians. All spin. All crap. You can argue Jeb is wrong on the issue, but at least he isn't a spineless, pandering pol like Jindal. Moreover, Jindal has hit the peak of his political career. He will never be president...not in a million years.

Careful what you compare to the Nazis - it detracts from your principled argument. Requiring a 9th grader to know about the Bill of Rights is a far, far, far cry from what the Nazis did to the Jews. Actually, the Nazi reference is repugnant.

I hope you also support the repeal of Social Security and Medicare. I assume you do - those are true socialist programs. Not even debatable. Does Jindal oppose those programs?

[Saratoga_Mike]

You still didn't tell us Robert how Jeb! and Hillary! differ. I gave you a bunch of reasons how they were the same. Now, go to work and convince us. :)

You really don't know much about Jeb's record as gov of Florida, do you? He isn't my preferred candidate, but I'd vote for him all day long over Hillary.

He's different on the issue of personal responsibility, social issues, school choice (vouchers and charters), taxes, spending and defense.

[TJDave]

I hope The Donald lasts until the debates. Must see TV. Unlike The Apprentice.
As much as democrats would love to see it the Republican Party elite would never let Donald near a mic in a debate forum.

[Saratoga_Mike]

As much as democrats would love to see it the Republican Party elite would never let Donald near a mic in a debate forum.

Polling data determines who is in and out of the debate. Trump is a joke. Less of a chance than Chris Christie.

[MutuelClerk]

As much as democrats would love to see it the Republican Party elite would never let Donald near a mic in a debate forum.

I'm not a democrat. Play the label game with your Red and Blue friends. I like seeing meltdowns of the rich and famous. I agree he wont get near a debate forum. He could however do some damage to his own party along the way on the campaign trail.

[fast4522]

2016 Presidential Election Thread : from thread start.

Myself I would say on matters of money I am bedrock conservative, on social issues I am more libertarian. I feel the government should stay out of it, I could care less who is doing who.

The real question is how everyone here in this thread could be drawn more to the middle, because I just do not see it and it is not good. I think 30 years ago both the left and the right came together better for the common good. This cross section we have right here might be just as it is outside this BBS forcing both sides to accept shit in their candidates across the board. Continue on this road and it will be hard to call us America much longer because all that was good will leave just like that sucking sound Ross Perot talked about.

[JustRalph]

I'm not a democrat. Play the label game with your Red and Blue friends. I like seeing meltdowns of the rich and famous. I agree he wont get near a debate forum. He could however do some damage to his own party along the way on the campaign trail.

He is already polling high enough in the private polls to make the debates.

I heard this on two different radio shows today...... should be interesting.

I think it's a good thing. He can swing a hatchet while the others are toiling

[Tom]

Can't we all agree a 9th grader should know about the Bill of Rights? Doesn't seem controversial to me, but many oppose it.


Obama opposes it.
You did mean the BOR didn't you?

[PaceAdvantage]

He is already polling high enough in the private polls to make the debates.

I heard this on two different radio shows today...... should be interesting.

I think it's a good thing. He can swing a hatchet while the others are toilingI agree with Ralph.

I'm all for a good show. I don't really care what it does to the GOP one way or another. If we can survive Obama, we can survive anything...even Hillary...

I'm really starting to think I COULDN'T CARE LESS who wins the next Presidential election.

[thaskalos]

I'm really starting to think I COULDN'T CARE LESS who wins the next Presidential election.
THERE you go! :ThmbUp:

[classhandicapper]

So Jeb supports Common Core. He is looking better. So many republicans oppose anything that will improve the quality of the education of our kids getting.

You have it backwards.

Republicans are very concerned about the quality of their kid's education. They don't want their children indoctrinated into liberal la la land. They are so concerned, many opt for home schooling despite all the extra work and responsibility that entails, just to avoid the public schools. When the directive comes from anywhere other than a local community they feel in sync with, they want out (as would I for my kids if I had any).

[Robert Goren]

You have it backwards.

Republicans are very concerned about the quality of their kid's education. They don't want their children indoctrinated into liberal la la land. They are so concerned, many opt for home schooling despite all the extra work and responsibility that entails, just to avoid the public schools. When the directive comes from anywhere other than a local community they feel in sync with, they want out (as would I for my kids if I had any). I made the mistake of hiring a home schoolee once. She was a fairly bright kid, but was sorely lacking in basic arithmetic skills she needed to be a parking lot cashier. Nobody had bother to teach her that stuff. Things like 97* $5.50 threw her for a loop. She could use a calculator, but she had no feel for the answer if she punched in a wrong number. In her favor was that she did know her way around a computer. It seems there is a computer learning program that teaches some the classes. Plus she had no idea what showing up on time meant. I mean no idea about how it screwed everything up if she didn't. I had plenty of workers who were late a lot, but they knew why I wanted them there at certain time, they just didn't care. She never was able even to understand the why. I don't think her parents did her a favor by home schooling her. Maybe she was the exception, but I was not going to risk finding out. When I hired her, I thought she would be a better than average employee because she was home schooled, because her parents went extra mile to do it. It sure did not work that way with her.

[JustRalph]

Had a kid last week come in for an interview with the teardrop tattoo from his eye......... wanted to know why he was ineligible to work in the front of the restaurant.

I think he was schooled by the State. At Huntsville

[thaskalos]

There is a kid who works at a Walgreens near my house. Good looking kid, but tattoos all over both arms, and up to his neck...and piercings all over his face...along with a nose ring, and those disgusting earlobe-stretching things that some weird kids are attracted to. It hurt me so much to look at him, that I couldn't believe he was ever hired by responsible management, to take care of customers. And then I saw him run after me to my car one day, screaming and waving a paper bill. It seems that I had dropped a $100-bill on the floor in front of his register as I was paying for my stuff...and he was running to return it to me.

I now find that looking at him has gotten a lot more pleasant for me...

[ReplayRandall]

There is a kid who works at a Walgreens near my house. Good looking kid, but tattoos all over both arms, and up to his neck...and piercings all over his face...along with a nose ring, and those disgusting earlobe-stretching things that some weird kids are attracted to. It hurt me so much to look at him, that I couldn't believe he was ever hired by responsible management, to take care of customers. And then I saw him run after me to my car one day, screaming and waving a paper bill. It seems that I had dropped a $100-bill on the floor in front of his register as I was paying for my stuff...and he was running to return it to me.

I now find that looking at him has gotten a lot more pleasant for me...

$100 bill? Some relative pass away and leave you money? I'm sorry..... ;)

[JustRalph]

Had a kid last week come in for an interview with the teardrop tattoo from his eye......... wanted to know why he was ineligible to work in the front of the restaurant.

I think he was schooled by the State. At Huntsville

Hired today to work back of the house. Wife says "he's a nice guy" deserves a chance.

[reckless]

You are free to oppose CC, and I assume you do so on principle. But that makes you different than Jindal. He opposes it now because he didn't realize the base was opposed to it. Promises from the federal govt? Why would he have ever wanted a federal handout? Profiles in gutless politicians. All spin. All crap. You can argue Jeb is wrong on the issue, but at least he isn't a spineless, pandering pol like Jindal. Moreover, Jindal has hit the peak of his political career. He will never be president...not in a million years.

OK, Jindal was for Common Core before he was against Common Core.

Jindal said the totalitarians of the federal gov't first told him that CC was one thing, and he bought into that. Then when it came time to implement it, the feds idea for CC was completely different. He also said he returned the money to Washington. That's how I understood all that.

I believe what he said. I do not believe your supposition that Jindal took a poll and decided against CC because his base was against it. I lived in Louisiana for 2 years, Mike, did you ever live there? Louisiana is a Huey Long share the wealth kind of state. It is my opinion that if Jindal's position was strictly poll driven as you suggest, then the people of Louisiana would have CC today. Just remember, Mike, if a poll was actually taken and the question was asked: should we get a zillion dollars from the federal government to standardize our school and educational system, the people would have said yes, and CC win hands down. Jindal is a man of principle, like him or not. I don't believe he governs via polls and focus groups. But, he is still a politician and he actually could do every thing that I think he doesn't.

Call him spineless, gutless, a panderer, call him anything you'd like, Mike. I like him and agree with his conservativism. I am not his father or big brother or oldest son so any names you hurl at him doesn't bother me at all.

Careful what you compare to the Nazis - it detracts from your principled argument.

First I said nazi-like but why quibble between friends over words or intent? The federal government at times have been 'known' to conduct their agenda and business in a nazi-like manner. Government bureaucrats have been known to act like storm-troopers too. Maybe you haven't had to deal with some of these people. Maybe you have and was treated quite well. Must we go back and discuss the IRS targeting conservative groups? Or the government putting small businesses out of business because of different religious and political views?

Requiring a 9th grader to know about the Bill of Rights is a far, far, far cry from what the nazis did to the Jews. Actually, the nazi reference is repugnant.

Yes Mike, all you wrote I agree. A 9th grader should know about the Bill of Rights; they should also know what the Nazis did to the Jews. And, of course, the Nazi reference is repugnant.

So... how come today a 9th grader doesn't know about the Bill of Rights? How come today a 9th grader doesn't know about the Holocaust? While a Nazi reference is repugnant how come government-supported colleges are at the forefront of anti-Semitic and Jew-hating rhetoric in this country?

Today's education system is a disaster. This is primarily the result of 50-60-75 years of federal government control with primarily a left wing agenda at hand controlling and running these institutions. Yet, 9th graders don't know the Bill of Rights today. Do you see the connection or do you prefer to ignore it?

Common Core is a ploy for more federal government control over the state and local school systems. And primarily more control over parents and their responsibility of their children.

I hope you also support the repeal of Social Security and Medicare. I assume you do - those are true socialist programs. Not even debatable. Does Jindal oppose those programs?

Actually I do hope for a repeal and overhaul of the Social Security system, and by extension that of Medicare and Obama Care. I also believe in term limits.

All of my beliefs are actually mainstream and would have strong support country-wide if a poll was taken. Yet, none of it will ever happen (especially a nationwide poll) because it's been politicized to the point that not a single politician has the onions to even address these problems much less repeal it totally or in part.

Finally, you asked: does Jindal oppose those programs? I don't know if he does or not, Mike, but I imagine you do know the answer. And my guess is Jindal is probably supportive of both programs or you wouldn't have asked in the first place.

[Robert Goren]

Every few years, they release test score comparing children from industrial countries. The United States always ranks in the bottom half. The countries that trounce us every time have 2 things in common. Their school systems are run by their national governments and they have year-around school. It makes no sense in todays mobile society that a kid who has been going to school in say California and his parents move to Texas should be a year or two ahead in some subjects and year or two behind in others. Yet that is what is happening that to local control. The sad thing is you don't even have to switch states to see this happen. It can even happen in large metropolitan areas with several school districts. There is a lot things wrong with our schools and none of them are going to get solved with locally elected school boards in charge. Nobody holds the local board accountable. The local boards do not even want their students taking nationally standardized to test see how their system is doing.

[Tom]

How do the family situations compare between the US and those other countries?

Take out our students who have no real family unit - Fathers off t who knows where, and the see how we stack up. Education starts at home. As we see here, kids coming from good families can get through our system successfully.

[Robert Goren]

How do the family situations compare between the US and those other countries?

Take out our students who have no real family unit - Fathers off t who knows where, and the see how we stack up. Education starts at home. As we see here, kids coming from good families can get through our system successfully.While some of it is to blamed on bad family situations, but other countries have their share of bad family situations too. Do we just ignore the kids who did not win the lottery and get good parents? That does seem to be what we are doing now and all that does is insure another generation of bad parents. But even a kid with good parents who "get through successfully" is still behind in far too many skill sets especially science. Besides there is not a whole lot we can do about bad family situations. What we change is what is happening in our schools. We have too many bad teachers because the wages are not comparative with private industry in math and science majors. Lets see, you can make 80 grand as an engineer or 35 as teacher. The only person that is not going take the 35 grand is the guy who is not offered the 80 grand. The teaching profession is largely made up of the bottom third of college grads. How is that a good thing?

[Tom]

While some of it is to blamed on bad family situations, but other countries have their share of bad family situations too


I doubt many have anything near as bad as we do here.
What is the graduation rate in the Ghettos of Venice?

[Robert Goren]

I doubt many have anything near as bad as we do here.
What is the graduation rate in the Ghettos of Venice?It really does not matter what happens in the Ghettos of Venice. We do not live in Italy. We live in the US. We have to deal with what happens in the Ghettos of Detroit or Baltimore or Dallas or Omaha.

[Greyfox]

How do the family situations compare between the US and those other countries?

Take out our students who have no real family unit - Fathers off t who knows where, and the see how we stack up. Education starts at home. As we see here, kids coming from good families can get through our system successfully.

Where I live we have a lot of immigrants from China, the Philippines, India, Pakistan, Africa and the Middle-east.
The parents work hard as hell - driving taxis, buses, gravel trucks, running Mom and Pop stores, laundries, bakeries and other small businesses.
A small percentage of their kids join gangs and become losers.
A very large percentage of these immigrant kids put their nose to the grindstone, burn the mid-night oil, and get honor grades.
Caucasian kids who've had it well in middle class families can't compete with them.
In the last twenty years, the "white kids" from middle class families are being outworked by colored kids from lower class families.
Our Universities are now over 50 % populated by kids of first generation immigrants.
They appreciate the value of how much work is required to truly succeed and get a professional career.
Their parents worked hard and set a good example for them.
Am I wrong to conclude that the current generation of North American Caucasian youngsters are just plain lazy?

[Clocker]

Am I wrong to conclude that the current generation of North American Caucasian youngsters are just plain lazy?

I think lazy is not the right word. Many are to a large extent not ambitious and feel entitled. But they were raised that way. They are the trophy generation, where everyone gets an award just for showing up. What can you expect from kids that play sports without keeping score, lest it hurt the losers' feelings?

Look at the Occupy Wall Street crowd from a few years back. They were protesting against a society that held them accountable for their debts, that didn't give them a good job compatible with their unmarketable degrees, and that didn't pay them what they thought they deserved for entry level work.

There are still some out there that are ambitious, but they are usually the product of non mainstream schools, private or charter, and of exceptionally concerned parents.

[Greyfox]

I think lazy is not the right word. Many are to a large extent not ambitious and feel entitled.

Clocker - You nailed it better than I did. :ThmbUp:

[Robert Goren]

Children of Immigrants generally do well in school. But there is a regression toward the mean with each new generation. Remember that immigrants are not a random sample. Only the hardest working of a society immigrate looking for a place where their hard work will bring rewards if not for them, then for their children. The United States is still the promised land for most of the world.

[Tom]

It really does not matter what happens in the Ghettos of Venice. We do not live in Italy. We live in the US. We have to deal with what happens in the Ghettos of Detroit or Baltimore or Dallas or Omaha.


It certainly does matter if you are trying to compare the two.
If they do not have the same family situation as we do here, then your assumptions about it only being the school system are not backed up.

[zico20]

I had no idea where to put this article. So I found this thread. Interesting take on the illegals influence on the 2016 presidential election. By counting illegals the Democrats gain 4 electoral votes. No wonder Obama does not want them shipped out. If Trump could get his way and he deports all of them, yea right, Republicans benefit.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/10/illegal-immigrants-could-elect-hillary-clinton-213216

[horses4courses]

I had no idea where to put this article. So I found this thread. Interesting take on the illegals influence on the 2016 presidential election. By counting illegals the Democrats gain 4 electoral votes. No wonder Obama does not want them shipped out. If Trump could get his way and he deports all of them, yea right, Republicans benefit.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/10/illegal-immigrants-could-elect-hillary-clinton-213216

People are either entitled to vote, or they are not.
Republicans will do their best to make sure that
the electorate expands as slowly as possible.

[Robert Goren]

I had no idea where to put this article. So I found this thread. Interesting take on the illegals influence on the 2016 presidential election. By counting illegals the Democrats gain 4 electoral votes. No wonder Obama does not want them shipped out. If Trump could get his way and he deports all of them, yea right, Republicans benefit.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/10/illegal-immigrants-could-elect-hillary-clinton-213216 The 2016 election is NOT going to be decide by 4 electoral votes, no matter who wins.
It is an open secret, despite denials by republicans, their efforts are not aimed at stopping illegals from voting. Their efforts are designed to keep as many minorities as possible from voting. If every citizen 18 or order voted, the GOP would lose in a landslide and the democrats would have huge majorities in the house and the senate. As it is, they have lost the popular vote in 5 of the last 6 presidential elections. We were one supreme court justice away from winning in 2000 and a likely reelection in 2004. If you could not beat Obama in 2012, how in the world do you expect to win in 2016 with current bunch of want-a-bes.

[Tom]

Their efforts are designed to keep as many minorities as possible from voting.

What a shameless liar you are.

[horses4courses]

.Blue Nation United Retweeted
The Daily Edge ‏@TheDailyEdge 2h2 hours ago
REPORT: Koch Brothers said to be impressed with @CarlyFiorina's ability to invent an alternate reality and truly commit to it

[Tom]

Repeating third party tweets.
Man, you go right for the truth, don't you? :lol: :lol: :lol:

[fast4522]

2016 Presidential Election Thread : first post in thread. :lol:

The democrats successfully stopped republican control of Pennsylvania Ave by making the election about President Bush, the potential to do the same in 2016 making President Barack Hussein Obama Presidency the failure of his party. At every step our President has been handed his lunch, just think how bad it is.

[Clocker]

Republicans will do their best to make sure that
the electorate expands as slowly as possible.

Do you have any objective evidence to back this up?

I am not a Republican, and I believe that the electorate should expand only as quickly as new voters can be verified as eligible. Why is this a problem? Why do you assume that verifying the right to vote is really suppressing the right to vote?

You are assuming motive without objective proof. That is just blind faith partisanship. Put down the Kool Aid and give us some facts.

[Clocker]

Koch Brothers said to be impressed with @CarlyFiorina's ability to invent an alternate reality and truly commit to it.

Absolutely amazing how those impeccable sources are privy to the intimate thoughts of the Koch brothers. It must be true.

[horses4courses]

Do you have any objective evidence to back this up?

I am not a Republican, and I believe that the electorate should expand only as quickly as new voters can be verified as eligible. Why is this a problem? Why do you assume that verifying the right to vote is really suppressing the right to vote?

You are assuming motive without objective proof. That is just blind faith partisanship. Put down the Kool Aid and give us some facts.

Oh, for crissakes.......
You need proof that today is Sunday and tomorrow is Monday.

Use Google, for crying out loud.
Here's a couple of things to get you started (and tomorrow is Monday).
Knock yourself out.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/catherine-rampell-voter-suppression-laws-are-already-deciding-elections/2014/11/10/52dc9710-6920-11e4-a31c-77759fc1eacc_story.html

http://today.law.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/FullReportVoterIDJune20141.pdf

[horses4courses]

Repeating third party tweets.
Man, you go right for the truth, don't you? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Parody, chimp.
Simple parody.

Oh, by the way, the Koch whores are growing fond of Carly. For real. :eek:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/05/us-usa-election-fiorina-idUSKCN0RY0QF20151005?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&utm_source=twitter

[zico20]

Oh, for crissakes.......
You need proof that today is Sunday and tomorrow is Monday.

Use Google, for crying out loud.
Here's a couple of things to get you started (and tomorrow is Monday).
Knock yourself out.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/catherine-rampell-voter-suppression-laws-are-already-deciding-elections/2014/11/10/52dc9710-6920-11e4-a31c-77759fc1eacc_story.html

http://today.law.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/FullReportVoterIDJune20141.pdf

Not in Europe right now, tomorrow is Tuesday :D

[Clocker]

Oh, for crissakes.......
You need proof that today is Sunday and tomorrow is Monday.

Use Google, for crying out loud.
Here's a couple of things to get you started (and tomorrow is Monday).
Knock yourself out.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/catherine-rampell-voter-suppression-laws-are-already-deciding-elections/2014/11/10/52dc9710-6920-11e4-a31c-77759fc1eacc_story.html

http://today.law.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/FullReportVoterIDJune20141.pdf

The first link was an op-ed ("op" = "opinion") in a very liberal publication. It preached that laws that resulted in verification of voter registration were actually designed to "suppress" voter registration. Again, inference of intent without proof.

Given that, I didn't bother with the second link. I jumped to the conclusion that it was more of the same and a further waste of time.

[horses4courses]

The first link was an op-ed ("op" = "opinion") in a very liberal publication. It preached that laws that resulted in verification of voter registration were actually designed to "suppress" voter registration. Again, inference of intent without proof.

Given that, I didn't bother with the second link. I jumped to the conclusion that it was more of the same and a further waste of time.

Republican gerrymandering and suppression of voter rights are fact.
They will deny it all day long - about as long as they will drone on
about Democrats purposely encouraging illegals into the polling booths.
It's all part of the game they play.

[Clocker]

Republican gerrymandering and suppression of voter rights are fact.
They will deny it all day long - about as long as they will drone on
about Democrats purposely encouraging illegals into the polling booths.
It's all part of the game they play.

Both sides are playing games, and I say a pox on both their houses.

The issue remains that the left has presented no logical argument against a requirement for voter verification, and no objective proof that voter ID requirements are discriminatory.

[horses4courses]

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-gop-war-on-voting-20110830

Article from Rolling Stone in 2011.
Nothing has changed. In fact, the process has grown in stature.
It's their best chance of winning in 2016. Cheating.

Republicans have long tried to drive Democratic voters away from the polls. "I don't want everybody to vote," the influential conservative activist Paul Weyrich told a gathering of evangelical leaders in 1980. "As a matter of fact, our leverage in the elections quite candidly goes up as the voting populace goes down." But since the 2010 election, thanks to a conservative advocacy group founded by Weyrich, the GOP's effort to disrupt voting rights has been more widespread and effective than ever. In a systematic campaign orchestrated by the American Legislative Exchange Council – and funded in part by David and Charles Koch, the billionaire brothers who bankrolled the Tea Party – 38 states introduced legislation this year designed to impede voters at every step of the electoral process.

[Clocker]

Article from Rolling Stone in 2011.

:D

You keep posting 2nd or 3rd hand opinions, always based on outcomes.

How about an explanation in your own words why verification of eligibility to vote is in and of itself a violation of the rights of citizens of this country?

[horses4courses]

:D

You keep posting 2nd or 3rd hand opinions, always based on outcomes.

How about an explanation in your own words why verification of eligibility to vote is in and of itself a violation of the rights of citizens of this country?


It discriminates against low income groups.
The cost of obtaining I/D is prohibitive in many cases,
and often made as difficult as possible.
Just because you are poor, shouldn't mean you can't vote.

Here's what they are doing in Alabama recently.

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/10/alabama-to-stop-issuing-drivers-licenses-in-counties-with-75-black-registered-voters/

[Tom]

That one is 9th or 10th hand BS.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by horses4courses
Republican gerrymandering....

Cry me a river.
Like dems have never done it?
Neither party should but both do.
Time to put on your big-boy pants.

[davew]

Republican gerrymandering and suppression of voter rights are fact.
They will deny it all day long - about as long as they will drone on
about Democrats purposely encouraging illegals into the polling booths.
It's all part of the game they play.


When I hear "We know" and "Facts" spoken from a DEM politician or socialist pres., I think BS

[Saratoga_Mike]

Republican gerrymandering and suppression of voter rights are fact.
They will deny it all day long - about as long as they will drone on
about Democrats purposely encouraging illegals into the polling booths.
It's all part of the game they play.


I know you perceive it to be reality, but the facts aren't on your side.

In 2012, black turnout was around 61%, up from 60% in 2008 and 50% in 1996. It's a nice steady increase from 1996, not just the Obama effect.

[Tom]

I bet a whole lot of them have Photo ID cards, too.:D

[Clocker]

In 2012, black turnout was around 61%, up from 60% in 2008 and 50% in 1996. It's a nice steady increase from 1996, not just the Obama effect.

Facts are so inconvenient to The Narrative.

The assumption that voter registration requirements suppress voting is part of the liberal plantation mentality that minorities are too ignorant or too lazy or too unmotivated to comply with those requirements.

Voting should require more effort than texting for a pizza delivery.

[Tom]

Can you vote with an emoji?

[Saratoga_Mike]

Facts are so inconvenient to The Narrative.

The assumption that voter registration requirements suppress voting is part of the liberal plantation mentality that minorities are too ignorant or too lazy or too unmotivated to comply with those requirements.

Voting should require more effort than texting for a pizza delivery.

Amazingly, Dems disagree with that statement.

[Robert Goren]

Facts are so inconvenient to The Narrative.

The assumption that voter registration requirements suppress voting is part of the liberal plantation mentality that minorities are too ignorant or too lazy or too unmotivated to comply with those requirements.

Voting should require more effort than texting for a pizza delivery.You should at least be able to text if you vote. Barring people can not text would get rid of a lot of republican voters.

[Clocker]

You should at least be able to text if you vote. Barring people can not text would get rid of a lot of republican voters.

How do you check the voter ID on a text?

[Saratoga_Mike]

How do you check the voter ID on a text?

Not important

[Tom]

Just email your votes.

[Robert Goren]

Just email your votes.Most states already have snail mail in ballots, Can email be far behind?

[Tom]

Hillary already has 50,000 votes for herself.