Court: printer can reject objectionable material.

[Clocker]

A Kentucky court ruled on Monday that a Lexington printing business does not have to print messages that are in conflict with its religious beliefs.

http://dailysignal.com/2015/04/27/kentucky-court-says-printing-business-has-right-to-deny-service-for-religious-reasons/

[TexasDolly]

Probably would have a different outcome in Oregon I guess . To me it doesn't seem any different than the cake case.

[Clocker]

Probably would have a different outcome in Oregon I guess . To me it doesn't seem any different than the cake case.

The principle is the same. One difference is that the Oregon case was an administrative ruling by the state Bureau of Labor while the Kentucky decision came from a circuit court.

The Oregon ruling will likely still have to go to a real court.

[Inner Dirt]

Why do some gay people have to make a big deal out of everything? If someone doesn't want your business go down the road to someone who does. Like I have said in other threads when I was in California I had a female gay couple who were my track buddies and good friends, they knew what places were gay friendly and went out of their way to patronize businesses that were owned by fellow gays. Both Tina and Deb hated over the top flamboyant gay people and did not participate in any gay pride events, they just wanted to blend in and be treated like anyone else. Can't we all just be identified as people? Why should anyone's sexual orientation or race matter?

[Stillriledup]

Why do some gay people have to make a big deal out of everything? If someone doesn't want your business go down the road to someone who does. Like I have said in other threads when I was in California I had a female gay couple who were my track buddies and good friends, they knew what places were gay friendly and went out of their way to patronize businesses that were owned by fellow gays. Both Tina and Deb hated over the top flamboyant gay people and did not participate in any gay pride events, they just wanted to blend in and be treated like anyone else. Can't we all just be identified as people? Why should anyone's sexual orientation or race matter?

If people didnt reject their business, there would be no big deal.

[dirty moose]

If people didnt reject their business, there would be no big deal.

And if we didn't have opinions, we'd be robots.

[Robert Goren]

Why do some gay people have to make a big deal out of everything? Because that is the only way things get changed. If someone doesn't want your business go down the road to someone who does. Not always an option Like I have said in other threads when I was in California I had a female gay couple who were my track buddies and good friends, they knew what places were gay friendly and went out of their way to patronize businesses that were owned by fellow gays. Both Tina and Deb hated over the top flamboyant gay people and did not participate in any gay pride events, they just wanted to blend in and be treated like anyone else. Can't we all just be identified as people? Why should anyone's sexual orientation or race matter?A person's sexual orientation or race should not matter, but unfortunately it does matter to far too many people. That we will not change no matter what we do. What we can do, is make sure that everybody is treated the same regardless of race or sexual orientation and not let the bigots muddy the water by claiming sort of religious belief.

[TJDave]

Why do some gay people have to make a big deal out of everything?

Why do some Christians have to make a big deal out of everything?

[PaceAdvantage]

Why do some Christians have to make a big deal out of everything?Jews no longer follow Deuteronomy?

Have they started striking that section from Torah's scribed after a certain date?

[TJDave]

Jews no longer follow Deuteronomy?

Sure. Which part says Jews can't bake a cake or print a T-shirt for a homosexual?

[Tom]

Originally Posted by TJDave
Why do some Christians have to make a big deal out of everything?


They aren't.
It is the in-your-face leftists who are.
We are under the assumption that in this country, we have religious freedom.
Unfortunately, it the left that causes all the problems and tries to force their lifestyles on everyone.

Someone doesn't want to make your cake, go somewhere else.

But I agree, all those jihads and fatwas the Christians keep starting.....what' sup with that?

[Tom]

Sure. Which part says Jews can't bake a cake or print a T-shirt for a homosexual?

That is not the case.
They refuse to bake or make certain cakes of shirts.
Big difference, but you knew that.

[TJDave]

That is not the case.
They refuse to bake or make certain cakes of shirts.
Big difference, but you knew that.

OK, then... Which part of Deuteronomy says you can't make certain cakes or shirts for homosexuals?

[Robert Goren]

They aren't.
It is the in-your-face leftists who are.
We are under the assumption that in this country, we have religious freedom.
Unfortunately, it the left that causes all the problems and tries to force their lifestyles on everyone.

Someone doesn't want to make your cake, go somewhere else.

But I agree, all those jihads and fatwas the Christians keep starting.....what' sup with that?
Who is forcing you to be gay? But even you can't argue that there has not been a long tradition in this country of trying to force gays to be straight.

[Tom]

Point

..........................................Post 13

...........Post 14




.

[classhandicapper]

Let's bring this back to reality.

For most religious people, this is not about serving gays. The greater issue is religious freedom. But specifically, this is about participating in GAY WEDDINGS. Many religious people object to participating in gay marriages with their services. They are fine with serving gays.

For the gay community, this is not about cake and photos. It's about civil rights, but it's also about attacking and destroying those that see their lifestyle as sinful/immoral on religious grounds or deviant/unnatural etc.. on biological grounds. They want their lifestyle fully normalized (not just tolerated).

They may win that battle in the courts. IMO, no matter what the reason for their desires (imo it's probably epigenetic in most cases), they are never going to fully win the "normalized" battle in peoples' minds.

[Robert Goren]

Let's bring this back to reality.

For most religious people, this is not about serving gays. The greater issue is religious freedom. But specifically, this is about participating in GAY WEDDINGS. Many religious people object to participating in gay marriages with their services. They are fine with serving gays.

For the gay community, this is not about cake and photos. It's about civil rights, but it's also about attacking and destroying those that see their lifestyle as sinful/immoral on religious grounds or deviant/unnatural etc.. on biological grounds. They want their lifestyle fully normalized (not just tolerated).

They may win that battle in the courts. IMO, no matter what the reason for their desires (imo it's probably epigenetic in most cases), they are never going to fully win the "normalized" battle in peoples' minds.That is what they claim and they are pretty quick to quote Bible verses that back up their point of view all the time hoping nobody notice they are ignoring a verse a couple up or down from the one they are quoting. This case and the one in Oregon when cut down to brass tacks have nothing to do with religion. It has to bigotry, plain and simple. They have been taught that what gays do in their bedrooms is despicable and disgusting. They can not overcome that teaching. At one time bigots thought that people with black skin were sub human and they were not going to allow them into their place of business. At one time, it was fairly common for people to blame the Jews for the death of Christ and they were not going to deal with them. It is much the same today with gays. We need strong laws to prevent the bigots from poisoning our country. We need to call them out at every opportunity or they will prevail. Remember the bigots do stop at hatred and discriminate of just one group. They will eventually get around to you if not stopped. You can bet money on it.

[Tom]

Oh brother.
Yes, Bobby, lets marshal the troops.

Those evil Christan bakers will kill our babies and burn down our homes if we don't keep them in check.

Forget ISIS, forget the millions of illegals here, forget Iran getting the bomb......Granny Goodridge is coming to poison our wells. :eek::eek::eek:

[Clocker]

That is what they claim and they are pretty quick to quote Bible verses that back up their point of view all the time hoping nobody notice they are ignoring a verse a couple up or down from the one they are quoting. This case and the one in Oregon when cut down to brass tacks have nothing to do with religion.

One baker said that she refused to make a wedding cake for two gays that had been patronizing her store for years, and that she knew were gay. She said that there was nothing in her religion about not selling to gays, but that for her to make a specialized cake for a gay wedding was morally wrong. It wasn't about what gays do, it was about what she would have to do. How is that bigotry? How is that not about religion?

[Robert Goren]

One baker said that she refused to make a wedding cake for two gays that had been patronizing her store for years, and that she knew were gay. She said that there was nothing in her religion about not selling to gays, but that for her to make a specialized cake for a gay wedding was morally wrong. It wasn't about what gays do, it was about what she would have to do. How is that bigotry? How is that not about religion? What else would you call it? How can it be morally ok to be gay and be morally wrong to have a gay wedding? That is one mixed up baker! In her defense, there is a lot of this kind of perverted morality logic going around today. Some people are willing to buy in part of the way when it comes to accepting gays, but can't quite go all the way.

[TJDave]

How is that bigotry? How is that not about religion?

It is about religious bigotry.

And... its Nuremberg defense.

[Clocker]

What else would you call it? How can it be morally ok to be gay and be morally wrong to have a gay wedding?

She said nothing about the morality of a gay wedding. She said something about her morality in making a gay wedding cake.

And it is nothing about accepting gays. The gays were her regular customers.

[Clocker]

It is about religious bigotry.

And... its Nuremberg defense.

Wow, talk about twisted logic.

We executed people at Nuremberg for refusing to disobey immoral laws and orders.

[TJDave]

Wow, talk about twisted logic.

We executed people at Nuremberg for refusing to disobey immoral laws and orders.

That's not what I meant and you know it.

Those who practice bigotry against gays claim their god ordains it.

How is that different from, "I was just following orders?"

[Tom]

What else would you call it? How can it be morally ok to be gay and be morally wrong to have a gay wedding? That is one mixed up baker! In her defense, there is a lot of this kind of perverted morality logic going around today. Some people are willing to buy in part of the way when it comes to accepting gays, but can't quite go all the way.

You are the one mixed up.
You keep changing the words to fit your perverted agenda.
Try addressing what is actually being posted. The words that are there, not the one you think are there.

You are the one acting like a bigot here.

[Tom]

That's not what I meant and you know it.

Those who practice bigotry against gays claim their god ordains it.

That is not what anyone is saying, and YOU know it.
You and Goren are making up things you can argue about and ignore what it really being posted.

If anyone is trying to force their beliefs on others it is you two.

[classhandicapper]

They have been taught that what gays do in their bedrooms is despicable and disgusting. They can not overcome that teaching.

They have been taught promiscuous sexual behavior is a sin, and imo, for very good reason.

Let's assume there is no God for a moment.

Under that scenario, I don't think it's an accident the major religions agree that promiscuous behavior is a sin.

What probably happened thousands of years ago was that the smartest leaders in every tribe observed the world and saw that some sexual behaviors produced superior results than others. Since they wanted to produce the best possible results for their society, they laid out rules for their people that would encourage better results.

The reason they chose to include promiscuous behavior as a sin was most likely because promiscuous behavior was leading to more unwanted pregnancies, poverty, starvation, general crime, crimes of passion, and more deadly sexually transmitted diseases etc....

The resason they probably included homosexualty as a sin even though pregnancy wasn't an issue (besides the obvious biological reason) was that sexually transmitted diseases were probably way more rampant and concentrated among homosexuals, bisexuals, and the opposite sex partners of bisexuals.

Basically, a few thousand years ago they already knew everything we are experiencing now and have been normalizing for decades on our path to sodom and gomorrah.

I think it's legitimate to point out that religious people seem to single out gays as opposed to promiscuous heterosexuals.

The thing is, promiscuous heterosexuals don't announce their sins to the businessman and ask them to celebrate the sin with them through their goods and services. If they did, IMO, the truly religious would reject them also. Ask the Christian baker to cater a wife swapping party and see what happens. They would serve the adulterer at the store, but not celebrate the sin with them.

[PaceAdvantage]

Sure. Which part says Jews can't bake a cake or print a T-shirt for a homosexual?All I'm saying is, homosexuality as sin is not exclusive to Christian doctrine. In fact, they didn't even invent it...

[Clocker]

That's not what I meant and you know it.

Those who practice bigotry against gays claim their god ordains it.

How is that different from, "I was just following orders?"

I don't know what you meant. Unlike many others here, I don't claim to be able to intuit intent of posts, only what they say. It's different from following orders or obeying immoral laws because orders and laws come from man, and some people believe that morality comes from God. And we recognize and accept the difference in our Constitution.

Are you disputing the fact that a particular person really believes that it is a sin for her to make a gay wedding cake? If she believes it, who are you to judge her religion?

We accommodate a lot of religious beliefs in this country that are outside the mainstream, and a lot of people that believe that complying with certain laws is immoral. Apparently many have no problem with those, but object to tolerance of this particular religious belief because the result is politically incorrect. To which I say tough shite. Freedom of religion does not allow for picking and choosing which religions have freedom based on whether or not the outcome meets the approval of the majority.

[TJDave]

All I'm saying is, homosexuality as sin is not exclusive to Christian doctrine. In fact, they didn't even invent it...

Classical Judaism holds that certain homosexual acts are sinful. None of which preclude doing business with homosexuals.

[classhandicapper]

Classical Judaism holds that certain homosexual acts are sinful. None of which preclude doing business with homosexuals.

Again, religious Christian businesses (including those specific ones being destroyed by the lawsuits) do business with gays all the time. They just don't want to be part of celebrating the sin at the wedding. You are WAY too smart a guy to not understand the distinction and IMO the distinction is vital to their position.

[classhandicapper]

We accommodate a lot of religious beliefs in this country that are outside the mainstream, and a lot of people that believe that complying with certain laws is immoral. Apparently many have no problem with those, but object to tolerance of this particular religious belief because the result is politically incorrect. To which I say tough shite. Freedom of religion does not allow for picking and choosing which religions have freedom based on whether or not the outcome meets the approval of the majority.

For many liberals, there is no underlying principle (like private property, freedom etc..) guiding what they believe should be legal or illegal. It's a matter of their own personal whims and preferences (which aren't even consistent among them).

The idea that sometimes the principle is more important than the desired outcome is foreign to them, until someone wants to take away their drugs, abortions, sexual promiscuity, porn, or music/TC/movies that send bad messages to our youth.

[Clocker]

The idea that sometimes the principle is more important than the desired outcome is foreign to them

That conflicts with a fundamental belief of the dogma: the end justifies the means.

[ultracapper]

It's not as if this baker said nobody should make gay wedding cakes. They just said that they don't. They aren't pushing an agenda. How ever the gay couple is. They're going to force this baker to make their cake. The baker isn't stopping them from going to any other baker they choose. But they're forcing the baker to make any kind of cake demanded.

Anybody that can't see who is being bullied and coerced in this situation is just prejudiced towards their agenda.

For goodness sakes, they're in Oregon. You telling me they won't be able to find a baker that won't make a gay wedding cake. I'd bet that in about 10 minutes they could find a GAY BAKER that would make a gay wedding cake. Why would you want somebody to make your wedding cake if they really didn't want to, regardless of the reason. If they don't want to do it, they probably won't do their best work anyway. Find somebody that wants to do it. You'll get a much better cake, I'll bet.

[Robert Goren]

It's not as if this baker said nobody should make gay wedding cakes. They just said that they don't. They aren't pushing an agenda. How ever the gay couple is. They're going to force this baker to make their cake. The baker isn't stopping them from going to any other baker they choose. But they're forcing the baker to make any kind of cake demanded.

Anybody that can't see who is being bullied and coerced in this situation is just prejudiced towards their agenda.

For goodness sakes, they're in Oregon. You telling me they won't be able to find a baker that won't make a gay wedding cake. I'd bet that in about 10 minutes they could find a GAY BAKER that would make a gay wedding cake. Why would you want somebody to make your wedding cake if they really didn't want to, regardless of the reason. If they don't want to do it, they probably won't do their best work anyway. Find somebody that wants to do it. You'll get a much better cake, I'll bet.How you would feel if a supplier refuse to sell to the baker because he did not belong to right Christian sect and the supplier thought the baker was going to hell because the baker did not belong to same sect as him? What it was the only source of a needed supply? What if all the suppliers refused to do business what the baker?

[PaceAdvantage]

We can play what-ifs all day long.

The bottom line is this: religion has once again messed things up... :lol:

[Tom]

How you would feel if a supplier refuse to sell to the baker because he did not belong to right Christian sect and the supplier thought the baker was going to hell because the baker did not belong to same sect as him? What it was the only source of a needed supply? What if all the suppliers refused to do business what the baker?

But why wonder that - it is not what happened with the cake - not at all.
None of the parameters of your post apply to a very specific situation.

[thaskalos]

It was admirable what the Oregon bakers did. They put scruples and religious beliefs ahead of business, and the pursuit of profit. But, as Jesus himself has stated, the religious path is rocky, and the religious followers must often deal with persecution, of one kind or another. The bible states that such ordeals are often just "tests", given by the Heavenly Father, to determine the faith that his children have in Him.

At least the bakers can take solace in the fact that they passed this "test"...

[Tom]

Yeah, giving up that $1.46 profit from one cake sale- pretty heady stuff.

[classhandicapper]

It was admirable what the Oregon bakers did. They put scruples and religious beliefs ahead of business, and the pursuit of profit. But, as Jesus himself has stated, the religious path is rocky, and the religious followers must often deal with persecution, of one kind or another. The bible states that such ordeals are often just "tests", given by the Heavenly Father, to determine the faith that his children have in Him.

At least the bakers can take solace in the fact that they passed this "test"...

I'm sure many of them believe that. If so, small price to pay compared to being fed to the lions, getting crucified upside down, etc... But you still don't want to be punished for your beliefs.

[highnote]

They have been taught promiscuous sexual behavior is a sin, and imo, for very good reason.

Hopefully, this is not too far off the topic...

Joseph Campbell made a good point that throughout the ages what was a vice in one era was a virtue in another.

There have been societies that practiced homosexuality for birth control purposes, for example. Ancient Rome comes to mind.

France lost a lot of men in WWII and encouraged people to reproduce. Which probably explains why France's attitude toward sex is more liberal than a lot of other countries.

I don't know if there is an absolute "right" or an absolute "wrong". Mainly, it seems like it comes down to the beliefs, values and mores, (i.e., customs and conventions) of a society and these things change across the ages.

[TJDave]

They just don't want to be part of celebrating the sin at the wedding.

Celebrating?
Cake makers and caterers celebrate when they get the check.

[classhandicapper]

Celebrating?
Cake makers and caterers celebrate when they get the check.

Celebrating, as in attending the wedding party to cater and serve guests, as opposed to baking the cake and handing it over in your store.

Celebrating, as in attending the wife swapping party where they are handing out sex toys, watching porn, and having sex, as opposed to baking the cake and handing it over in your store.

If you are uncomfortable with something for religious reasons, you shouldn't be forced to do it. And quite frankly, a sensible society would be complaining about the people trying to force them to do it when there are infinite options to be served elsewhere. Our society has become such a backwards ass cesspool, even bright people can't see we have the morality of this backwards.

[classhandicapper]

I don't know if there is an absolute "right" or an absolute "wrong". Mainly, it seems like it comes down to the beliefs, values and mores, (i.e., customs and conventions) of a society and these things change across the ages.

I agree that different cultures accept different things and that they vary with the times. However, I don't accept that they are all equal. I think some behaviors are intrinsically and morally superior and you can usually figure out which by looking the long term results.

[Tom]

Suppose I go to a Black owned bakery in Baltimore and order a cake that says "Black Lives Don't Matter."

Should they be required to make it for me?

[classhandicapper]

This is only an issue because extremist homosexuals are TRYING to attack and destroy Christian establishments and Christian influence on society. Sensible people understand and respect the religious convictions of others, even when they disagree with them, and go to another store.

[thaskalos]

This is only an issue because extremist homosexuals are TRYING to attack and destroy Christian establishments and Christian influence on society. Sensible people understand and respect the religious convictions of others, even when they disagree with them, and go to another store.
Was the bakery advertised as a "Christian establishment"?

[Tom]

The gays were regular customers, so they probably knew the owners were.

[Clocker]

Welcome to our future.

Authorities in northwestern China’s Xinjiang region have ordered shop owners and restaurateurs in a mainly Muslim Uyghur village to sell alcohol and cigarettes or face closure of their establishments, despite a public backlash against the products discouraged by followers of Islam, an official source said.

Last week, authorities in Laskuy township, in Hotan (in Chinese, Hetian) prefecture’s Hotan county, issued an announcement in the town seat of Aktash village that “all restaurants and supermarkets in our village should place five different brands of alcohol and cigarettes in their shops before [May 1, 2015].”

In addition to directing owners to create “eye-catching displays” to promote the products, the April 29 announcement stated that “anybody who neglects this notice and fails to act will see their shops sealed off, their business suspended, and legal action pursued against them.”

Signed by the Aktash village Party Committee of Laskuy township, the notice stated that the order had been handed down “from the top echelons of [China’s ruling Communist Party], in order to provide greater convenience to the public.”

Perhat Rozi, chairman of the Political Law Committee of Laskuy township’s party leadership, refused to comment on the announcement, but Aktash village party committee secretary Adil Sulayman told RFA’s Uyghur Service that the new policy was part of an effort to undermine Islam in the area.

“We have a campaign to weaken religion here and this is part of that campaign,” he said.

http://www.rfa.org/english/news/uyghur/order-05042015133944.html

[Robert Goren]

Suppose I go to a Black owned bakery in Baltimore and order a cake that says "Black Lives Don't Matter."

Should they be required to make it for me? Yes

[Clocker]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom
Suppose I go to a Black owned bakery in Baltimore and order a cake that says "Black Lives Don't Matter."

Should they be required to make it for me?


Yes

If they did, would you eat any? :eek:

[highnote]

Welcome to our future.



http://www.rfa.org/english/news/uyghur/order-05042015133944.html


This would be like the U.S. gov forcing pharmacies to sell morning after birth control pills even though it is against some pharmacists beliefs.

My local pharmacy no longer sells cigarettes. If they U.S. gov forced them to sell cigarettes this would also be analogous.

Or if the U.S. gov made kosher delis sell pork.

Of course the U.S. gov has already passed a law making it a crime to not have health insurance., but there are exemptions.

It doesn't sound like the Chinese have exemptions.

[Tom]

Yes


I can accept that.
Will YOU pick it up for me? :lol:

[TJDave]

This is only an issue because extremist homosexuals are TRYING to attack and destroy Christian establishments and Christian influence on society.

Ever meet any extremist heterosexuals?

[Robert Goren]

If they did, would you eat any? :eek:Probably not

[Robert Goren]

Ever meet any extremist heterosexuals? No, but I have ran across a few extremist Christians in my day.

[Clocker]

Ever meet any extremist heterosexuals?

Yes. In my book, an extremist is anyone that is intolerant of others that don't share his views.

Gays who get their shorts in a twist about bakers are guilty of the same intolerance that they accuse the bakers of. Heterosexuals who get their shorts in a twist about gay marriage are equally intolerant and extremist.

[classhandicapper]

Ever meet any extremist heterosexuals?

Yes, but I don't care what people think.

I value economic, social, and religious freedom above all. I have no problem with trying to move people in a direction with dialogue, education, statistics etc... In fact, not doing that is why the country is already on the fast track to becoming a cesspool. We no longer have objective values to strive for. However, I despise everyone that tries to impose their will, ideas, and values on others by destroying them financially, destroying their career, etc... using the media or via new law.

Right now, this country is moving away from desirable tolerance towards a totalitarian place I despise with every fabric of my being (on variety of issues). I'm not far away from HATING this country and rooting for a revolution or a collapse sooner rather than later (as I know is coming financially anyway).

[classhandicapper]

Was the bakery advertised as a "Christian establishment"?

I'd bet my last dollar establishments are often targeted specifically because it is known that the owner is very religious and might not cater the wedding etc... giving them the opportunity to go to court, create a huge stink in the media, and advance the agenda.

[TJDave]

Yes, but I don't care what people think.

You obviously care about what extremist homosexuals think...

Because you wrote about it.

[Clocker]

[You will be made to care !!!.........



Resistance is futile.

[classhandicapper]

You obviously care about what extremist homosexuals think...

Because you wrote about it.

I couldn't give a rats ass who they screw or what they think of Christians.

I care that they are attacking and destroying the businesses and careers of Christians for believing differently. I don't want to live in a country where that is considered acceptable let alone admired.

[TJDave]

I care that they are attacking and destroying the businesses and careers of Christians.

How are they doing that?

[classhandicapper]

How are they doing that?

Every time someone in the public eye says anything about them from their own personal religious perspective or in a joking manner they are attacked relentlessly as haters and homophobes; they are fined; their careers are threatened or destroyed etc... whether it be an athlete/sports commentator/ TV or movie personality.

They are obviously targeting these bakers; photographers and other businesses to bring them to court and impose fines or rules that essentially kill the business or the personal finances of the family that owns them. That's all in order to bring more media attention to their cause.

They are flat out terrorists.

If you want to move the country in your direction; the right way to do it is by talking; educating; encouraging tolerance and compromise etc... If you use totalitarian and terrorist tactics; you may win in the short term but you haven't changed a single mind. Worse; you may create hostile backlash. Even worse; your success might encourage other people to use similar tactics on other issues against you next time.

We now have people saying that religious organizations should no longer even be able to hold and teach the traditional view on marriage without losing their status. They think the government should be able to force religions to change their doctrine. I consider that point of view psycho. That's way worse than anything Joe McCarthy ever did.

IMO; given the direction we are heading on multiple fronts (at least since the current administration took over); this country no longer deserves to lead the "free world".

[Valuist]

When you are 1.8% of the population, you should not be dictating to the other 98.2% how the world will function. Adapt. Go down the street to a competitor.

[classhandicapper]

Welcome to our future.



http://www.rfa.org/english/news/uyghur/order-05042015133944.html

Why wouldn't the commies feel comfortable attacking and weakening religion publicly when they have sympathizers in western governments on the same path?

What's laughable is that Russia has one of the few major governments in the world actively encouraging traditional religious values as a way of improving the social results of their society.

When traditional values are held in higher regard in Russian than the US it makes one think there could be something to this whole anti-Christ thing. :lol:

[Clocker]

What's laughable is that Russia has one of the few major governments in the world actively encouraging traditional religious values as a way of improving the social results of their society.

Russia is one of many countries that were ahead of the US in the race to a progressive utopia and found that there was no there there. Many social democracies in Europe have learned that multiculturalism is unworkable. Australia and a number of European countries are giving up on the war on global warming as futile and damaging. As the leader of the free world, we can only hope to catch up with them some day.:rolleyes:

[TJDave]

They are obviously targeting these bakers; photographers and other businesses to bring them to court and impose fines or rules that essentially kill the business

Homosexuals don't impose fines. Courts impose fines.

[classhandicapper]

Homosexuals don't impose fines. Courts impose fines.

Is that even a response? Obviously.

[Tom]

When you are 1.8% of the population, you should not be dictating to the other 98.2% how the world will function. Adapt. Go down the street to a competitor.

How true.
Or start your own business.

[classhandicapper]

Many social democracies in Europe have learned that multiculturalism is unworkable.

IMO, the issues there are the degree of cultural difference between the country and the immigrants, the speed at which they are coming, and the reason they are coming.

Immigration was done sensibly decades ago.

It was capped at a rate we could absorb and assimilate and certain countries were given preference.

It was done when we needed under-educated and unskilled workers.

We had no financial obligations to the new arrivals and our finances were in good shape because the left hadn't promised us into bankruptcy or hyperinflation yet.

The immigrants were screened for health and criminal issues.

Now, we are inviting unskilled and under-educated people to cross our borders illegally in vast numbers, giving them all sort of benefits even though we don't have the resources to take care of our own, not deporting the criminals and sick, and there are no jobs that can sustain them. With them are coming people that are diametrically opposed to everything we stand for here and abroad and are willing to get violent about it.

All this to give the assholes that are encouraging this insanity (and it is insanity) even more power to destroy the country. F'n brilliant.

We have riots in our major cities partly because there are no jobs that can sustain the people there and we are bringing in even more people to put down pressure on them economically. F'n brilliant.