Baltimore is rocking.....literally

[JustRalph]

Tried to call my buddy who lives in Baltimore and got a message that phone lines are out of service. Due to an emergency.

[Saratoga_Mike]

State of emergency declared. National guard called in.

http://live.baltimoresun.com/Event/Latest_updates_from_the_Freddie_Gray_case_in_Balti more

[Elliott Sidewater]

you can watch the rioting live on msnbc. Streaming video. Police just drew firearms, this is going to end badly. Rioters are trying to incite police into taking action, so far they haven't reacted but it's just a matter of time.

[Tall One]

Civil rights leader, the Rev. Al Sharpton, said Monday he plans to visit Baltimore this week to help push police for answers in the death of Freddie Gray. Sharpton said he also wants to plan a two-day march in May from Baltimore to Washington.



My goodness. In all seriousness, Maryland board members in and around the Baltimore area be careful and stay safe.

[Elliott Sidewater]

A CVS drugstore that looks new is burning down, after it was looted. Avoid N. Fulton Ave., at all cost. MSNBC stated crowd was 95% black, composed of some legitimate protesters but more looters. A liquor store was looted and the protesters are drinking, this is probably going to continue for hours. A sad day for America's residents of inner city areas.

[Elliott Sidewater]

Police cars windows being smashed, CVS roaring smoke billowing from broken windows and doors. Never seen anything quite like it, except maybe when those crazy Vancouver Canucks fans burnt down the shopping district after they lost the deciding cup game to the Bruins.

Chris Matthews is narrating the rioting live. Hardball..........yeah, I guess so.

[Elliott Sidewater]

Mayor will give a live address at 7:45 PM. Might be too little too late. The crowd is steadily growing and getting more bold.

On msnbc.com

They're talking about a "few bad apples" now, but if we're talking about the lousy 2%, Baltimore must have a bigger population than I thought. MD National Guard is activated is on its way to the riot site.

[Elliott Sidewater]

Air getting thick with smoke from burning cars, and its getting dark. Bad scene, surely and steadily getting worse. I'm amazed that neither side has started shooting.

[Greyfox]

Some are protesters with a perceived cause.

Others are simply hooligans who are there to damage and loot.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Baltimore mayor slams rioters, calling them thugs. Good for her.

Is Chris Matthews listening? What a fool, linking the lawlessness in Baltimore to jobs moving to non-union states.

[Tom]

Baltimore mayor slams rioters, calling them thugs. Good for her.

Is Chris Matthews listening? What a fool, linking the lawlessness in Baltimore to jobs moving to non-union states.

Good for HER?
She is the one who invited to riot.
Much of this is is on her.

[Elliott Sidewater]

I'm with you on this one Tom. She was at a loss for words at a conference that SHE CALLED. She was incapable of explaining what she really meant by "protester's rights." The best I could say is that she seemed to be dimly aware that she unwittingly contributed to the rioting by appearing to condone it. Her train of thought was a short ride.

[Saratoga_Mike]

I'm with you on this one Tom. She was at a loss for words at a conference that SHE CALLED. She was incapable of explaining what she really meant by "protester's rights." The best I could say is that she seemed to be dimly aware that she unwittingly contributed to the rioting by appearing to condone it. Her train of thought was a short ride.

They have a right to peacefully protest. That ended hours ago.

[Tom]

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1812755#post1812755


Post #22.

[Saratoga_Mike]

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1812755#post1812755


Post #22.

Saw it - didn't even make sense. I was saying they had a right to protest PEACEFULLY.

[Rise Over Run]

Stephanie Rawlings-Blake shouldn't be allowed to lead a Girl Scouts Pack, much less a major US City.

Enables this nonsense to start
Has ZERO public speaking abilities
Suggests Al Sharpton visit to bring this to a peaceful ending

And I'm guessing a black female calling black males "Thugs" isn't going to go over very well.

[Elliott Sidewater]

Mike:
I know that you know what the rights are, and have no issue with that---we're talking about the mayor's performance in a crisis situation. She projected weakness, confusion. She shriveled up at the worst possible time. The Governor came on and was clear about what he was going to do that was a lot more like it.

[Tom]

Saw it - didn't even make sense. I was saying they had a right to protest PEACEFULLY.

Not disagreeing with you, just posted the link to where this thread ended up. ;)

[Saratoga_Mike]

Mike:
I know that you know what the rights are, and have no issue with that---we're talking about the mayor's performance in a crisis situation. She projected weakness, confusion. She shriveled up at the worst possible time. The Governor came on and was clear about what he was going to do that was a lot more like it.

Her first quote doesn't even make sense. I'm not defending it. I did appreciate her calling out the thugs in her latest press conference.

[Tom]

Black city councilman just blamed this on failed polices.....in a city run by Black democrats. Ya think?

The Fox kid nailed this jerk. :lol:

[Saratoga_Mike]

Black city councilman just blamed this on failed polices.....in a city run by Black democrats. Ya think?

The Fox kid nailed this jerk. :lol:

Correction: blamed it on DECADES of failed policies!

[Clocker]

I don't know why, but the city was obviously not trying to stop, let alone arrest, looters. I saw a story on NBC that the CVS drug store was looted for 2 hours before it was set on fire. One reporter said cars were pulled up to the CVS, loaded, and drove away. And the video showed smoke pouring out of the roof and still no police or fire department in sight. Sounds like someone told fire and police to stand down.

[Tom]

Decades of Black democrat leadership?

The only people in position to fix the polices are Black democrats.
What is the point of the riot?
Free stuff?

[RunForTheRoses]

Did the White House really need to send someone to the funeral? Liberals always say "Why all the hate on Obama" well it is subtle stuff like this...

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/27/politics/freddie-gray-funeral-white-house-guests/

[Tom]

I don't know why, but the city was obviously not trying to stop, let alone arrest, looters. I saw a story on NBC that the CVS drug store was looted for 2 hours before it was set on fire. One reporter said cars were pulled up to the CVS, loaded, and drove away. And the video showed smoke pouring out of the roof and still no police or fire department in sight. Sounds like someone told fire and police to stand down.

Black city councilman said the talked to the cops and got them to back off and allow them to talk the rioters down. Just before more stores were looted.
Watch Fox, this kid with a mic is doing a tremendous job of calling eveyone's BS - my 2016 new face! :lol:

[Saratoga_Mike]

1) School choice
2) Empowerment zones
3) Jobs

Vote Republican at the local level if you live in a large city.

[Tom]

Cops!
Go home.
Let the Black leadership of Baltimore handle it.
They are the people of Baltimore's choice to represent them....have faith!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Tom]

1) School choice
2) Empowerment zones
3) Jobs

Vote Republican at the local level if you live in a large city.

And ignore idiots like Al Sharpton.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Where's Obama on this? He makes statements on everything else race related.

[Tom]

If he had a son, he would be shopping at CVS tonight.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Protester admits to throwing bottles and other objects polices, then complains that cops shot him with a beanbag.

[f2tornado]

Baltimore can repel an invasion of 5000 well armed Red Coats but can't stop a bunch of ghetto trash thuggery?

[Stillriledup]

So i missed how this started, obviously the cops who killed Freddy Gray got indicted for murder and are in jail now? Fill me in on this.

[Clocker]

So i missed how this started, obviously the cops who killed Freddy Gray got indicted for murder and are in jail now?

A major leap to a conclusion. Or is this a troll?

The guy was arrested, taken to jail, had some kind of medical problem at the jail and was treated by paramedics. He was then taken to a hospital, went into a coma, and died a week later. There is no video of police brutality and apparently no sign on the body of beating. Police are still investigating.

[cj's dad]

I haven't posted for a month or so due to vision problems; however I feel compelled to say that what is happening here is over the top. I sat on my back porch with a view of the city ans can see the fires in downtown Baltimore. The blacks here are totally out of control. 17 police officers have been injured and 2 are in serious condition.- Freddie Gray died and I certainly have no idea as to the circumstances to that. For these animals to tear down my city is beyond my logic. Why is it that of 218murders in the city in 2014 of which 189 were black on black there was no uprising???Reverse racism is alive and well in Baltimore, Md.

[Stillriledup]

A major leap to a conclusion. Or is this a troll?

The guy was arrested, taken to jail, had some kind of medical problem at the jail and was treated by paramedics. He was then taken to a hospital, went into a coma, and died a week later. There is no video of police brutality and apparently no sign on the body of beating. Police are still investigating.

I read that he died in police custody. Maybe he died of old age.

[OntheRail]

Baltimore can repel an invasion of 5000 well armed Red Coats but can't stop a bunch of ghetto trash thuggery?
Because the latter are their voting block... Not the Police the Politicians that control the PD ;) .

[horses4courses]

Maybe he died of old age.

Or, an over abundance of TLC.
Can't jump to conclusions, though.

[OntheRail]

Or, an over abundance of TLC.
Can't jump to conclusions, though.
Or how bout he was cranked on PCB and stressed his body over it's limit fighting his restraints.

[Stillriledup]

Or, an over abundance of TLC.
Can't jump to conclusions, though.

Yes, maybe it was all the love the cops showered on him when he was in that paddy wagon, maybe it was the affection that snapped his spine, you know, the weight of all that love can get heavy at times.

[Clocker]

Can't jump to conclusions, though.

Some people can. Are you aware of any hard evidence of what happened to him, or who was responsible?

I have no reason to believe that there was not a screw up of some kind by some cops. He was hand-cuffed and tossed in the back of a van. It could be negligent homicide, maybe by the cops in the van. He was apparently not secured, and could have been bounced around in the van. But I see a lot of lynch mob mentality that assumes guilt of every cop on the scene, and wants them all in jail now.

[JustRalph]

The Baltimore Mayor obviously graduated from the Ray Nagin school of leadership

[proximity]

as a brick and mortar compulsive gambler I understand the contrarian nature of horseplayers quite well but the implications in this thread that what happened today is somehow warranted are absolutely frightening.

thoughts and prayers to the people of this great city.

[PaceAdvantage]

Ahhh...another inner-city run by democrats for decades showing all the progress it's made under that leadership.

Way to go Dems...

[TJDave]

I have no reason to believe that there was not a screw up of some kind by some cops. He was hand-cuffed and tossed in the back of a van. It could be negligent homicide, maybe by the cops in the van. He was apparently not secured, and could have been bounced around in the van.

I've seen that done in Mexico. Cops will handcuff a perp to a post ring in the bed of a pickup truck then drive him around on washboard back roads. They call it the roller coaster.

[Clocker]

I've seen that done in Mexico. Cops will handcuff a perp to a post ring in the bed of a pickup truck then drive him around on washboard back roads. They call it the roller coaster.

And what, pray tell, were you doing in the back of a police truck in Mexico? Inquiring minds want to know. :p

That may be what happened, through intention or neglect. That was my first unsubstantiated speculation when it was reported that there were no external signs of violence, that it happened in the van taking the guy in. But while there are no real facts yet, there a lot of people assuming that every cop involved is guilty of murder. And those unsubstantiated conclusions appear to be based entirely on the fact that the cops were white and the suspect was black.

[TJDave]

And what, pray tell, were you doing in the back of a police truck in Mexico? Inquiring minds want to know. :p

It was a ride along. I was in the passenger seat.

[Robert Goren]

as a brick and mortar compulsive gambler I understand the contrarian nature of horseplayers quite well but the implications in this thread that what happened today is somehow warranted are absolutely frightening.

thoughts and prayers to the people of this great city.Not warranted, but still highly preventable. At least one of the 6 cops involved should have been arrested by now. The days of stalling for time and hoping the whole thing goes away are over. There is no way a crime was not committed by at least one of the cops. Once again we see special treatment for cops. No way a non police officer would go this long without being charged.
In Nebraska, a grand jury must be called when ever somebody dies in custody or during an attempt to put someone into custody. I believe they have 30 days to call it, but was unable to verify that time tonight. That should be the law everywhere. Almost all of the time no charges are brought, but the friends and family know it gets looked at. A co-worker's son hanged himself in jail. She got to know exactly what happened in a timely manner. None of the bullshit that is happening in Baltimore was allowed to happen here.

[PaceAdvantage]

There is no way a crime was not committed by at least one of the cops.Simply not true. Accidents happen.

Say the guys a loon and takes a running header into the back door or side of the van...unless his feet were shackled (which I highly doubt would ever be the case), it's certainly a possibility.

[cj]

Sad day for my city.

[proximity]

Not warranted, but still highly preventable.....

regret over the riots due to their preventability?

that wasn't the way I read some of the comments but if i'm wrong, i'm glad i'm wrong.

[Clocker]

At least one of the 6 cops involved should have been arrested by now.

Based on what facts? Certainly nothing the public or the media is aware of.

[rastajenk]

The Baltimore Mayor obviously graduated from the Ray Nagin school of leadershipShe may have attended, but she surely didn't even graduate. What a sorry display of urban leadership she is. That performance at 8:00 last night was supremely embarrassing.

[Tom]

Ahhh...another inner-city run by democrats for decades showing all the progress it's made under that leadership.

Way to go Dems...

And they wanted to send a message to white America.
What was it, that Blacks can't govern?

[Tom]

Two previous lawsuits for people paralyzed while in police custody.

[fast4522]

Sad day for my city.

Tomorrow South Central LA, this is just the times we are in.

[Robert Fischer]

lots of frustrated people that are losing

when you have a Freddie Gray incident (or as history has shown, even less clear-cut incidents like Michael Brown etc...), these citizens feel they have the green light to act out

it's just part of the current system

we could make the media even more censored, we could have teams to censor/disrupt/etc.. social media, we could have harsher faster more violent response to civil unrest...

There aren't a lot of 'pretty' solutions, that are necessarily better than our reality.

[hcap]

Yes, maybe it was all the love the cops showered on him when he was in that paddy wagon, maybe it was the affection that snapped his spine, you know, the weight of all that love can get heavy at times.
http://data.baltimoresun.com/news/police-settlements/

UNDUE
FORCE

The city has paid about $5.7 million since 2011 over lawsuits claiming that police officers brazenly beat up alleged suspects. One hidden cost: The perception that officers are violent can poison the relationship between residents and police.

Largest payouts

Baltimore has paid $5.7 million since January 2011 for settlements and court judgments in lawsuits accusing city police officers of false arrests, false imprisonment and excessive force. Virtually all of the people who won large awards were cleared from criminal charges.
EXPLORE THE LARGEST PAYOUTS

$500,000
Aubrey Knox, Lena Knox
$375,000
Edward Lamont Hunt
$272,790
Jamal Butler
$250,000
Chris Sharp
$236,393
Arthur Phillips
$224,000
Jerriel Lyles
$219,057
Dondi Johnson
$200,000
Tyrone Brown
$200,000
Jacqueline Allen
$175,000
Daudi Collier
$170,000
Salahudeen Abdul-Aziz
$155,000
Williams, Pendelton
$150,000
Darren Brown
$125,000
Starr Brown
$110,000
Calvert, JoHN

Among the findings of The Sun’s investigation, which included a review of thousands of court records and interviews with victims, along with audio and video recordings of trials:

Since 2011, the city has been involved in 102 court judgments and settlements related to allegations of civil rights and constitutional violations such as assault, false arrest and false imprisonment, making payouts that ranged up to $500,000. (The statutory cap can be exceeded when there are multiple claims in a lawsuit, and if there is malice the cap may not apply.) In 43 of the lawsuits, taxpayers paid $30,000 or more. In such settlements, the city and the officers involved do not acknowledge any wrongdoing.

NO, I GUESS WE SHOULD NOT JUMP TO UNFOUNDED CONCLUSIONS

[badcompany]

Since you're listing stats, here are a few:



http://heavy.com/news/2015/04/freddie-gray-arrest-record-criminal-history-rap-sheet-why-was-freddie-gray-arrested/

His arrest record includes at least 18 arrests:

March 20, 2015: Possession of a Controlled Dangerous Substance
March 13, 2015: Malicious destruction of property, second-degree assault
January 20, 2015: Fourth-degree burglary, trespassing
January 14, 2015: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute
December 31, 2014: Possession of narcotics with intent to distribute
December 14, 2014: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance
August 31, 2014: Illegal gambling, trespassing
January 25, 2014: Possession of marijuana
September 28, 2013: Distribution of narcotics, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, second-degree assault, second-degree escape
April 13, 2012: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, violation of probation
July 16, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession with intent to distribute
March 28, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance
March 14, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to manufacture and distribute
February 11, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance
August 29, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, violation of probation
August 28, 2007: Possession of marijuana
August 23, 2007: False statement to a peace officer, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance
July 16, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance (2 counts)

[Clocker]

Sad day for my city.

No, no. According to the moonbats, this is progress. Sally Kohn of CNN, who is as nuts as the Mayor, tweeted:

"Looting a real shame. But FAR MORE shameful is pattern of police violence against black community! Perspective, people. #BaltimoreRising".

#BaltimoreRising

Just sends a thrill up your leg, doesn't it?

http://hotair.com/archives/2015/04/28/cnn-contributor-tags-baltimore-riots-as-baltimorerising-while-city-burns/

[Clocker]

NO, I GUESS WE SHOULD NOT JUMP TO UNFOUNDED CONCLUSIONS

I may have missed it, but I saw nothing in that post about any evidence as to what happened to Freddy Gray or who did it. Perhaps you could enlighten us as to what really happened.

I'm sure that no reasonable person doubts that the police screwed up big time. The question is whether it was an accident, neglect, or deliberate. And who is responsible. But the lynch mob knows the six cops who are guilty and who should be strung up.

P.S. The article lists data since 2011. The current mayor, who is black, took office in Feb., 2010. All that happened on her watch. If there is a systemic problem, she doesn't seem to be dealing with it very well. As a note of interest, the City Council President, the majority of the Council members, and the Police Commissioner and his Deputy are all black. What have they been doing about this?

[Clocker]

Rachel Maddow of MSNBC says that the Baltimore police are out of control because a few of them were seen picking up rocks that rioters were throwing at them and throwing them back.

And CNN's Wolf Blitzer says some police were driving dangerously fast on city streets.

http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/maddow-police-are-little-bit-out-control

[Robert Goren]

Simply not true. Accidents happen.

Say the guys a loon and takes a running header into the back door or side of the van...unless his feet were shackled (which I highly doubt would ever be the case), it's certainly a possibility.The police have admitted to shackling in Grey.

[Robert Goren]

Since you're listing stats, here are a few:



http://heavy.com/news/2015/04/freddie-gray-arrest-record-criminal-history-rap-sheet-why-was-freddie-gray-arrested/

His arrest record includes at least 18 arrests:

March 20, 2015: Possession of a Controlled Dangerous Substance
March 13, 2015: Malicious destruction of property, second-degree assault
January 20, 2015: Fourth-degree burglary, trespassing
January 14, 2015: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute
December 31, 2014: Possession of narcotics with intent to distribute
December 14, 2014: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance
August 31, 2014: Illegal gambling, trespassing
January 25, 2014: Possession of marijuana
September 28, 2013: Distribution of narcotics, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, second-degree assault, second-degree escape
April 13, 2012: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, violation of probation
July 16, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession with intent to distribute
March 28, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance
March 14, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to manufacture and distribute
February 11, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance
August 29, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, violation of probation
August 28, 2007: Possession of marijuana
August 23, 2007: False statement to a peace officer, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance
July 16, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance (2 counts) None of those offences is a capitol crime. One is even for illegal gambling. Who hasn't done that?

[PaceAdvantage]

The police have admitted to shackling in Grey.Well then, it's official. Permission to riot granted.

[PaceAdvantage]

None of those offences is a capitol crime. One is even for illegal gambling. Who hasn't done that?So it's a case of another group of psychopathic cops looking to bag themselves a minority to put on the wall...I guess that's it, right RG?

All these cops out there systematically executing minorities...crazy world

[tucker6]

None of those offences is a capitol crime. One is even for illegal gambling. Who hasn't done that?
That may be, but I'm not going to cry over his death either.

[cj's dad]

The looting has already begun ! I hope they stay in their "hood" !

[fast4522]

Baltimore is rocking.....literally (from #1)

[johnhannibalsmith]

http://mashable.com/2015/04/28/baltimore-mom-slaps-son-riot/

[hcap]

Since you're listing stats, here are a few:



http://heavy.com/news/2015/04/freddie-gray-arrest-record-criminal-history-rap-sheet-why-was-freddie-gray-arrested/

His arrest record includes at least 18 arrests:
I linked to and quoted the Sun's investigative report of excessive force the Baltimore police had used on a very large number of Black citizens The courts indeed found UNDUE FORCE was used. And perhaps a reason for the unrest and rioting. Do I condone violence by the rioters? No, but neither do I condone violence by the police

"The city has paid about $5.7 million since 2011 over lawsuits claiming that police officers brazenly beat up alleged suspects. One hidden cost: The perception that officers are violent can poison the relationship between residents and police."

And no matter the arrest record of Gray, there is no justification for the police overstepping the law.

"When Mr. Gray was placed inside that van he was able to talk. He was upset. And when Mr. Gray was taken out of that van he could not talk and he could not breathe," said Dep. Commissioner Jerry Rodriguez, of the Baltimore City Police Department during Monday’s news conference.

[Clocker]

And no matter the arrest record of Gray, there is no justification for the police overstepping the law.

Allegedly overstepping the law. Last I heard, we still have a presumption of innocent until proven guilty in this country.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Allegedly overstepping the law. Last I heard, we still have a presumption of innocent until proven guilty in this country.

True, but it's hard to come up with a scenario which exculpates the police

[woodtoo]

http://mashable.com/2015/04/28/baltimore-mom-slaps-son-riot/

Gotta love this mom, poor kid had nowhere to hide. :lol:

[hcap]

Allegedly overstepping the law. Last I heard, we still have a presumption of innocent until proven guilty in this country.Well let's hope further investigations into this matter doesn't show Gray was innocent and the police in effect executed an innocent man. According to the investigative report and the courts, the police did overstep the law with undue force many many times.

[Clocker]

True, but it's hard to come up with a scenario which exculpates the police

I agree, but it could be something like criminal neglect on the part of a couple of cops, like maybe the two in the van transporting the prisoner, rather than the cold-blooded murder by 6 cops many have already found guilty. There are no facts yet, but there are a lot of minds made up. And those that state without evidence that the cops did nothing out of order are equally in the wrong.

[PaceAdvantage]

Gotta love this mom, poor kid had nowhere to hide. :lol:I'm sure this nutty world will find a way to lock the mom up on child abuse charges eventually... :rolleyes: :bang:

[Steve 'StatMan']

The issues mentioned are very important, more important overall than what I'm about to post. But, from a racing, and overall financial health of Baltimore, I'm seriously wondering what the live attendance will be like at Pimlico this week, and if this will cause problems with the Preakness and tourism. Again, lives are more important. I can't help but see many side effects to the city and region - far worse than they've had up to now.

[Marshall Bennett]

None of those offences is a capitol crime. One is even for illegal gambling. Who hasn't done that?
:lol: Are you kidding. They're not capitol crimes, but the fkn list is a mile long.
There are many jurisdictions that would have such a criminal locked up for a very very long time for the number of convictions alone regardless what the nature of them were.
Robert, you're a riot. (no pun intended)

[charm city whizz]

The issues mentioned are very important, more important overall than what I'm about to post. But, from a racing, and overall financial health of Baltimore, I'm seriously wondering what the live attendance will be like at Pimlico this week, and if this will cause problems with the Preakness and tourism. Again, lives are more important. I can't help but see many side effects to the city and region - far worse than they've had up to now.

I'll let you know on thur and Friday!!!

13 scattered on the apron on a good day

Last Friday if I remember correctly

13 on the apron
54 in the terrace dining room
33 in the sports palace
100 in downstairs clubhouse
75 scattered in downstairs grandstand
60 second floor clubhouse

That's what last Friday looked like at the big P

[Tom]

Allegedly overstepping the law. Last I heard, we still have a presumption of innocent until proven guilty in this country.

Yes, but this guy was picked up for no good reason.

[badcompany]

:lol: Are you kidding. They're not capitol crimes, but the fkn list is a mile long.
There are many jurisdictions that would have such a criminal locked up for a very very long time for the number of convictions alone regardless what the nature of them were.
Robert, you're a riot. (no pun intended)

It's both funny and pathetic to see/read the absurd excuses Libs come up with to rationalize the abject failure of the Welfare State which has aggressive policing as a side effect.

[Saratoga_Mike]

:lol: Are you kidding. They're not capitol crimes, but the fkn list is a mile long.
There are many jurisdictions that would have such a criminal locked up for a very very long time for the number of convictions alone regardless what the nature of them were.
Robert, you're a riot. (no pun intended)

He arguably should have been in prison given the offenses enumerated in a prior post. However, that doesn't mean the police can pick him up for no reason and then allegedly inflict injuries that resulted in his death.

[thaskalos]

He arguably should have been in prison given the offenses enumerated in a prior post. However, that doesn't mean the police can pick him up for no reason and then allegedly inflict injuries that resulted in his death.
The one disturbing trend in these cases is the persistent lying by the arresting officers. It seems that everything keeps getting done "by the book"...even though the suspects keep winding up dead.

[Saratoga_Mike]

The one disturbing trend in these cases is the persistent lying by the arresting officers. It seems that everything keeps getting done "by the book"...even though the suspects keep winding up dead.

Fergusson - I don't think anyone really knows

Taser case - what reasonable person claimed that was "by the book?"

Baltimore case - I have no idea how the officers involved can possibly explain away his injuries

[PaceAdvantage]

The one disturbing trend in these cases is the persistent lying by the arresting officers.How many people in this world, knowing they ****ed up and killed a guy via over-aggressive police tactics, is going to step up and admit such? Especially when there is no conclusive proof.

This case is going to be a nightmare to prosecute. Assuming the cops are guilty of something, one of them is going to have to testify against the other in order for a case to be made. Unless they can make a manslaughter charge stick against the whole group of officers involved that day.

But if all of them testify it was an accident...that this man somehow injured himself, what evidence will there be to dispute that testimony unless one of the officers breaks rank? Some sort of conclusive coroner finding perhaps, but that's about it...and that's not likely...

Of course this will only lead to more civil unrest.

[thaskalos]

Fergusson - I don't think anyone really knows

Taser case - what reasonable person claimed that was "by the book?"

Baltimore case - I have no idea how the officers involved can possibly explain away his injuries
In both the taser case and the Baltimore case, the police just ignored the pleas of the wounded suspect, and kept on with the arrest, as if nothing out of the ordinary had occured. In that other case where the officer shot the fleeing suspect in the back...the cop planted evidence at the scene of the crime. And in all cases...the arresting officers' stories differ greatly from the stories given by eyewitnesses, or video cameras at the scene.

It doesn't seem that the cops are used to telling the truth about their day-to-day lives.

[horses4courses]

It doesn't seem that the cops are used to telling the truth about their day-to-day lives.

Some cops.
The vast majority of them do a terrific job.
It's the bad apples that get most of the headlines.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Some cops.
The vast majority of them do a terrific job.
It's the bad apples that get most of the headlines.

H4C, the voice of reason!

[thaskalos]

How many people in this world, knowing they ****ed up and killed a guy via over-aggressive police tactics, is going to step up and admit such? Especially when there is no conclusive proof.

This case is going to be a nightmare to prosecute. Assuming the cops are guilty of something, one of them is going to have to testify against the other in order for a case to be made. Unless they can make a manslaughter charge stick against the whole group of officers involved that day.

But if all of them testify it was an accident...that this man somehow injured himself, what evidence will there be to dispute that testimony unless one of the officers breaks rank? Some sort of conclusive coroner finding perhaps, but that's about it...and that's not likely...

Of course this will only lead to more civil unrest.

All these types of cases are a nightmare to prosecute...because the cops hinder the prosecutorial process through the collective lying that they engage in, in order to cover for one another. The misbehaving cops know that there is a system in place to insulate them...and that's why these types of things keep recurring.

[thaskalos]

Some cops.
The vast majority of them do a terrific job.
It's the bad apples that get most of the headlines.

I'm not sure about that. If the "vast majority of cops did a terrific job"...then these few "bad apples" would have no where to hide.

[Saratoga_Mike]

All these types of cases are a nightmare to prosecute...because the cops hinder the prosecutorial process through the collective lying that they engage in, in order to cover for one another. The misbehaving cops know that there is a system in place to insulate them...and that's why these types of things keep recurring.

That's quite an accusation.

[PaceAdvantage]

I'm not sure about that. If the "vast majority of cops did a terrific job"...then these few "bad apples" would have no where to hide.This might be a case of "blame the internet."

You are bombarded with these incidents now, almost on a daily basis...they are a tiny percentage of what goes on out there, but they are magnified beyond the realm of reason, and we all start thinking there is this major problem going on...cops driving around with a trunk full of dead minorities that they have bagged on their daily hunting excursions...that's close to what some people believe...that cops are hunting blacks and other minorities, basically for sport.

And don't tell me I have it all wrong...the perception is becoming the reality, thanks to the 24/7 news cycle and the internet.

It's also the reason why parents are way too overprotective these days compared to the pre-internet era. They've been scared silly that there is a predator behind every hedgerow, just waiting to snatch their child.

[thaskalos]

That's quite an accusation.
Naw...just common knowledge. Didn't you read that other case here, where the defendant was found innocent because of the discovery of video tape proving the misbehaving of the police...leading the judge to dismiss the drug charges levied against the suspect, as a result of the arresting officers planting drugs at the scene?

[Saratoga_Mike]

Naw...just common knowledge. Didn't you read that other case here, where the defendant was found innocent because of the discovery of video tape proving the misbehaving of the police...leading the judge to dismiss the drug charges levied against the suspect, as a result of the arresting officers planting drugs at the scene?

I think PA's prior post covers this very well.

[thaskalos]

This might be a case of "blame the internet."

You are bombarded with these incidents now, almost on a daily basis...they are a tiny percentage of what goes on out there, but they are magnified beyond the realm of reason, and we all start thinking there is this major problem going on...cops driving around with a trunk full of dead minorities that they have bagged on their daily hunting excursions...that's close to what some people believe...that cops are hunting blacks and other minorities, basically for sport.

And don't tell me I have it all wrong...the perception is becoming the reality, thanks to the 24/7 news cycle and the internet.

It's also the reason why parents are way too overprotective these days compared to the pre-internet era. They've been scared silly that there is a predator behind every hedgerow, just waiting to snatch their child.
I'm not saying that you are wrong...but I WILL say that the internet plays a vital role in the cases where it's the word of the police officer against that of a fleeing suspect with a police record. What do you suppose would have happened in each one of these case, if there was no bystander video footage shot at the scene? I say that, in each and every case, the "truth" wouldn't have seen the light of day...and the arresting cops' reports would have gone uncontested.

Not a pleasant thought, as far as I am concerned.

[Robert Fischer]

I'm not sure about that. If the "vast majority of cops did a terrific job"...then these few "bad apples" would have no where to hide.

I think that these events do something else interesting, - these events expose the mantra that police are our public servants and are there to protect and serve us, and it's a little bit uncomfortable and interesting.

I'm really fortunate in one sense, that I currently live in a community where the police really are our public servants, here to protect and serve us. There's no surveillance, there's no speed traps, there's no real 'police presence' here per se. These tenants and land owners are fairly politically active conservatives(for the most part). It's not the rich and famous, but it's relatively affluent.

For citizens who happen to live in areas like the low-income areas of Baltimore, the role and presence of police is more complex. Yes, there is a functional protect-and-serve element. There is also a "protect businesses and tourists from the citizens", element. There is also a very real economic element that is fueled from the police and justice and prison systems.

I'm not necessarily picking sides here(although there is sure to be some who feel that I am), and certainly not along party lines, but I find these type of things that temporarily upset and expose certain accepted propaganda to be interesting.

[thaskalos]

I think PA's prior post covers this very well.
What does it cover well? That cops plant drugs at the scene of an arrest in order to strengthen their case?

[Saratoga_Mike]

I'm not saying that you are wrong...but I WILL say that the internet plays a vital role in the cases where it's the word of the police officer against that of a fleeing suspect with a police record. What do you suppose would have happened in each one of these case, if there was no bystander video footage shot at the scene? I say that, in each and every case, the "truth" wouldn't have seen the light of day...and the arresting cops' reports would have gone uncontested.

Not a pleasant thought, as far as I am concerned.

Have you served on a jury? Defense attorneys aren't stupid.

[thaskalos]

Have you served on a jury? Defense attorneys aren't stupid.

Have you seen cases where black inmates have been declared innocent after serving 20 years on Death Row?

[Saratoga_Mike]

What does it cover well? That cops plant drugs at the scene of an arrest in order to strengthen their case?

No, you know what it covers - your perception that all cops are corrupt is stoked by a 24-hour news cycle. If we used your deductive reasoning, all Muslims are terrorists (I do NOT believe this). Why? Well, I see acts of terrorism around the world on a daily/weekly basis, and the vast majority of the time it's Muslims behind the acts. That's your logic on this matter. Sorry, it is.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Have you seen cases where black inmates have been declared innocent after serving 20 years on Death Row?

I believe in a very, very, very high standard for a death penalty case. For example, the Boston bomber - he's on tape and his attorney admitted he did it. ZERO doubt - that's a death penalty case.

[Tom]

In both the taser case and the Baltimore case, the police just ignored the pleas of the wounded suspect, and kept on with the arrest, as if nothing out of the ordinary had occured. In that other case where the officer shot the fleeing suspect in the back...the cop planted evidence at the scene of the crime. And in all cases...the arresting officers' stories differ greatly from the stories given by eyewitnesses, or video cameras at the scene.

It doesn't seem that the cops are used to telling the truth about their day-to-day lives.

So you go by three cherry-picked cases present by a biased media as proof of some global brotherhood of bad cops?

[thaskalos]

No, you know what it covers - your perception that all cops are corrupt is stoked by a 24-hour news cycle. If we used your deductive reasoning, all Muslims are terrorists (I do NOT believe this). Why? Well, I see acts of terrorism around the world on a daily/weekly basis, and the vast majority of the time it's Muslims behind the acts. That's your logic on this matter. Sorry, it is.

Where did I say that "all cops are corrupt"? Just because I disagreed with H4C's comment that "the vast majority of the cops do a terrific job" means that I think they are all corrupt?

[Tom]

I'm not sure about that. If the "vast majority of cops did a terrific job"...then these few "bad apples" would have no where to hide.

All three of your examples have nowhere to hide......got any more that are hiding?

[Saratoga_Mike]

Where did I say that "all cops are corrupt"? Just because I disagreed with H4C's comment that "the vast majority of the cops do a terrific job" means that I think they are all corrupt?

You've been painting with a very, very broad brush.

[thaskalos]

You've been painting with a very, very broad brush.

I paint what I see. Cops don't usually turn in other cops...and that makes bad matters worse.

[thaskalos]

All three of your examples have nowhere to hide......got any more that are hiding?
They are not hiding because of the bystander video tape.

[cj]

Some cops.
The vast majority of them do a terrific job.
It's the bad apples that get most of the headlines.

Unfortunately true, but I'd also say it is VERY likely the good cops know about the bad apples and remain silent.

[thaskalos]

Unfortunately true, but I'd also say it is VERY likely the good cops know about the bad apples and remain silent.
There you go! :ThmbUp:

[thaskalos]

Unfortunately true, but I'd also say it is VERY likely the good cops know about the bad apples and remain silent.

And if you know about the bad apples and you remain silent...are you doing a "terrific job" yourself?

[cj]

And if you know about the bad apples and you remain silent...are you doing a "terrific job" yourself?

Nope...dealt with this a lot in the military. Things changed a lot between 1985 and 2008 when I retired, for the better.

[Tom]

When you are counting of your fellow cops to have your back, you are going to be more likely to have theirs, too.

Right or wrong, it is their lives on the line out there.
Would you feel safer if there were no cops to stand in front of the mob of animals throwing rocks?

You've got three events here - not a bloody epidemic.

[cj]

When you are counting of your fellow cops to have your back, you are going to be more likely to have theirs, too.

Right or wrong, it is their lives on the line out there.
Would you feel safer if there were no cops to stand in front of the mob of animals throwing rocks?

You've got three events here - not a bloody epidemic.

I wouldn't want to count on bad or corrupt cops, I'd rather they not be there at all and do what I could to ensure it. Easy to do? Hell no. The right thing to do? Yes.

[Marshall Bennett]

Unfortunately true, but I'd also say it is VERY likely the good cops know about the bad apples and remain silent.
Covers basically most jobs in the workforce. :)

[Robert Goren]

When you are counting of your fellow cops to have your back, you are going to be more likely to have theirs, too.

Right or wrong, it is their lives on the line out there.
Would you feel safer if there were no cops to stand in front of the mob of animals throwing rocks?

You've got three events here - not a bloody epidemic.There would not be a mob animals throwing rocks, if the cops had done the right thing.

[Stillriledup]

And if you know about the bad apples and you remain silent...are you doing a "terrific job" yourself?

No, they're breaking the law or at worst, breaking their oath, seeing criminal activity from corrupt cops and turning the other way and pretending to not see it.

Every post you have in this thread is spot on.

[Stillriledup]

When you are counting of your fellow cops to have your back, you are going to be more likely to have theirs, too.

Right or wrong, it is their lives on the line out there.
Would you feel safer if there were no cops to stand in front of the mob of animals throwing rocks?

You've got three events here - not a bloody epidemic.

So wait, their life was on the line when Freddy Gray was bouncing around in the back of the paddy wagon? :eek:

[PaceAdvantage]

So wait, their life was on the line when Freddy Gray was bouncing around in the back of the paddy wagon? :eek:Oh my, you are indeed a super-intellectual. Such thought-provoking, GOTCHA statements...

I bow before you sir.

[Stillriledup]

Oh my, you are indeed a super-intellectual. Such thought-provoking, GOTCHA statements...

I bow before you sir.

Never claimed to be super intellectual, but i appreciate the compliments.

Sir.

:D

[PaceAdvantage]

Guys whacked out on drugs (and this guy had plenty of access it seems, based on his record) go nuts at the drop of a hat (depending on the substance being abused). Whose to say he didn't fling himself into the side or back of the van and break his neck in a fall?

I know, I know...all the cops are heartless abusers of minorities and blacks, so this doesn't fit the narrative.

But wouldn't it be sad if these cops have their careers and lives ruined over a suspect like this if indeed it was just an accident...because of the current, "COPS ARE KILLERS," in-your-face environment we are currently experiencing.

Are the lunatics finally running the asylum? Perhaps.

[Rookies]

Sidebar:

America obviously has, a big problem, with the enforcement activities of various police forces vis a vis Black minority communities. (I could comment on the trumped up advantage being taken by street thugs looting to "right a wrong", even the idiocy of both looting and burning the one company that provided food and drug services to this community. Oh, I have.)

But let's get to the crux of the matter. These communities clearly do not feel that an issue of police violence or murder of a criminal suspect or even a chance police stop is being handled properly- at all. It would appear that the ONLY time that the Blue wall can be surmounted is through clear cut video evidence. Otherwise, the cops'word is going to take precedence, even through ginned up evidence and the Blue wall.

What is the answer, then? Well, on a much lesser scale Toronto and Ontario had some similar issues a generation ago. Some minority persons (usually Jamaican Canadians) were gunned down during routine stops. Protests of a peaceful, but not happy at all nature, occurred and eventually Government decided to do something different. It wasn't supported in the beginning by either the Police or minority communities and concerned citizens, but the Special Investigations Unit (siu.on.ca) has been up and running for 15 years.

It's mandate from its' website is the following:

"Welcome to the Special Investigations Unit’s website. When police officers are involved in incidents where someone has been seriously injured, dies or alleges sexual assault, the SIU has the statutory mandate to conduct independent investigations to determine whether a criminal offence took place. The effective fulfilment of this mandate, with all of its associated challenges, remains critical to fostering public confidence in policing in the province by ensuring thorough and independent investigations that stand up to public scrutiny.

The SIU is the first of its kind in Canada and, Ontario remains one of the few places worldwide that has an independent civilian agency with the power to both investigate and charge police officers with a criminal offence. Since its inception in 1990, the SIU has taken great strides and as such has become a model of civilian oversight for other jurisdictions amid an international movement toward greater civilian accountability of police. "

Does it work? Well, cops do get cleared with some frequency, even of deadly force. But occasionally- they don't! One of the more famous cases is the one of Sammy Yatim, a young unbalanced teenager on a streetcar, brandishing a knife. All passengers had been removed and Sammy was surrounded by about 6 cops. You can find multiple videos on You Tube, as an equally unbalanced cop shot Mr. Yatim 9 times, without provocation.

The SIU subsequently charged the cop with Murder.

America needs to find alternatives to diffuse these intense racial powder kegs and this may be one of them.

[gheuks]

it pains me to say this... but this may be the final nail in the coffin for pimlico. The Maryland Jockey club has hinted that it wants to go down to one track recently. The Preakness will most likely go on as scheduled...hopefully without incident. 5 years from now give or take, I predict the Preakness will be held at Laurel, along with all MD racing. It just doesn't make sense to invest money into Pimlico.

[proximity]

Oh my, you are indeed a super-intellectual. Such thought-provoking, GOTCHA statements...

I bow before you sir.

i'm sure a high level intelligence is a main part of his being a winning horseplayer in this modern environment and i definitely respect that.

tbs, i wouldn't want to see him walking a beat in baltimore. yes, he's smart, but he's underestimating this job.

[Stillriledup]

Guys whacked out on drugs (and this guy had plenty of access it seems, based on his record) go nuts at the drop of a hat (depending on the substance being abused). Whose to say he didn't fling himself into the side or back of the van and break his neck in a fall?

I know, I know...all the cops are heartless abusers of minorities and blacks, so this doesn't fit the narrative.

But wouldn't it be sad if these cops have their careers and lives ruined over a suspect like this if indeed it was just an accident...because of the current, "COPS ARE KILLERS," in-your-face environment we are currently experiencing.

Are the lunatics finally running the asylum? Perhaps.

Even if he flung himself, isnt' it their job to make sure he CANT fling himself?

[PaceAdvantage]

Even if he flung himself, isnt' it their job to make sure he CANT fling himself?Because they are Gods and can predict erratic behavior?

In general, yes, cops try and prevent these sorts of things because it doesn't look good when a suspect you were in charge of wins a multi-million dollar lawsuit against, you, the department and the city. So yes, there is some drawback to letting a guy kill himself, or to killing a suspect either accidentally or intentionally...

But maybe it's best to let the "wild wild west" narrative that you and others seem to be advocating rule the day. It sure makes for some exciting news coverage of the ensuing and predictable riots after you get done stirring up those who feel the system has done them wrong.

[Grits]

Sorry if this has been covered as I haven't read this entire thread, but wasn't this man's spinal cord (at the neck) 80% severed?

This could be achieved by flinging and flailing oneself? I understand high on drugs but even this would be a stretch, no?

[PaceAdvantage]

Sorry if this has been covered as I haven't read this entire thread, but wasn't this man's spinal cord (at the neck) 80% severed?

This could be achieved by flinging and flailing oneself? I understand high on drugs but even this would be a stretch, no?I have no idea what happened. Nobody does. It's all speculation at this point...

[badcompany]

There would not be a mob animals throwing rocks, if the cops had done the right thing.

Yeah, you're right. This type of behavior would never happen in the absence of Police misconduct:



THEODORE PARISIENNE FOR NEW YORK DAILY NEWS


Police are still searching for surveillance video from the Monday night shootings, while their investigation continues.

A festering 20-year-old grudge exploded into gunfire at a Brooklyn wake, with two mourners killed and three more wounded in a drive-by shooting outside a church.

One of the two slain men took a fatal bullet while shielding his wife once the shooting started Monday evening outside the Emmanuel Church of God on Flatbush Ave., friends and family members said.

The other dead man was the apparent target of the long-delayed payback, police sources said.

Homicide detectives grilled informants Tuesday as they hunted the two fugitives wanted for spraying bullets at the line of heartbroken family and friends.

A third suspect believed to be the instigator of the violence was shot, wounded and found a short time later by police, authorities said.

“I heard about 50 shots,” said witness Raul Marroquin, who was up from Florida for the funeral of his friend Jose Luis Robles, 39. “It was like a movie.”

Marroquin echoed a community leader’s claim that the shooting was tied to a dispute dating to the last millennium.

[Clocker]

America obviously has, a big problem, with the enforcement activities of various police forces vis a vis Black minority communities.

Baltimore is a black majority community. The majority of the population is black. The majority of the police force is black. The leaders of the city and of the police department are black.

Baltimore has a long history of political and police corruption. It also has a long history of being run entirely by the Democrats. The standard liberal whine about rich white Republicans oppressing minorities just doesn't fly here. Democrats, the champions of minorities, own this mess.

[PaceAdvantage]

They own most if not all inner-city messes.

[Rookies]

The O's game tomorrow will be played before a capacity, designed crowd of ZERO! :eek:

Wow! Bizaare, unprecedented and there IS something new every day!

[Clocker]

The O's game tomorrow will be played before a capacity, designed crowd of ZERO! :eek:

Wow! Bizaare, unprecedented and there IS something new every day!

And moved to an afternoon game due to the 10 PM curfew. And the scheduled home series with the Rays this weekend has been moved to Florida.

[cj's dad]

Baltimore is a black majority community. The majority of the population is black. The majority of the police force is black.
.

The majority of the population is black. Yes=62%


The majority of the police force is black. No=43%

[Hank]

When you are counting of your fellow cops to have your back, you are going to be more likely to have theirs, too.

Right or wrong, it is their lives on the line out there.
Would you feel safer if there were no cops to stand in front of the mob of animals throwing rocks?

You've got three events here - not a bloody epidemic.

the mob of animals throwing rocks?

Thanks Tom,I can always rely on you.Underclass minorities throwing rocks are "animals".Not one poster challenged this dehumanizing characterization of the protesters.This confirms what I stated in the other thread. Minorities in general and underclass minorities in particular are regarded as animals within this society at large.Even Non underclass blacks with Ivy league educations and jobs like POTUS are referred to as monkeys or thugs. So certainly it comes as no surprise that the Police whose job is to control and subjugate these "animals" will certainly concur with this assessment of underclass minorities and treat them accordingly.The NEWS story would actually be if this was "not" occurring.

[badcompany]

Baltimore is a black majority community. The majority of the population is black. The majority of the police force is black. The leaders of the city and of the police department are black.

The Lefties here are just trying to indulge themselves with some good old fashioned white liberal guilt, and you have to ruin it by introducing facts.

You should be ashamed :lol:

[Grits]

I have no idea what happened. Nobody does. It's all speculation at this point...

http://www.baltimoresun.com/health/bs-hs-gray-injuries-20150420-story.html

Please. Read a little further....they haven't released the autopsy, of course. But, they do have evidence of the extent of the injuries to his neck and voice box.

Yeah, he probably could've broken his own neck but something in me doubts it. Still, I have high regard for police officers...one lives across the street from me. They have dangerous jobs. Not always easy to carry out, and get right, every single incident.

I watched last night while a new 60 room senior center to be opened in November providing housing for the elderly and infirmed burned to the ground....and listened to the black minister whose church built it. :(

[Inner Dirt]

I agree, but it could be something like criminal neglect on the part of a couple of cops, like maybe the two in the van transporting the prisoner, rather than the cold-blooded murder by 6 cops many have already found guilty. There are no facts yet, but there are a lot of minds made up. And those that state without evidence that the cops did nothing out of order are equally in the wrong.

If the reports of a severed spinal cord are true it is 100% certain the cops had something to do with it. As someone who suffered two spinal cord injuries on separate occasions I am pretty knowledgeable on the subject. You are not getting that type of injury from running into a wall or falling down a flight of stairs unless you are 80 years old, I believe the guy who died was 25, so he had pretty strong bones.

[NJ Stinks]

It's also the reason why parents are way too overprotective these days compared to the pre-internet era. They've been scared silly that there is a predator behind every hedgerow, just waiting to snatch their child.

BINGO! :ThmbUp:

One of my favorite memories being a kid was Mom saying: "Go out and play. And don't come back until dinner time!" :jump:

I feel bad for the kids of today. (shrug)

[Clocker]

The majority of the population is black. Yes=62%


The majority of the police force is black. No=43%

I was using this from the Washington Post:

Take the example of Baltimore. This shows that 28 percent of the city population is white, while 46 percent of the police officers working in the city are white, according to Census data.

I guess the difference could be other minorities.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/08/14/where-minority-communities-still-have-overwhelmingly-white-police/

[Saratoga_Mike]

Thanks Tom,I can always rely on you.Underclass minorities throwing rocks are "animals".Not one poster challenged this dehumanizing characterization of the protesters.This confirms what I stated in the other thread. Minorities in general and underclass minorities in particular are regarded as animals within this society at large.Even Non underclass blacks with Ivy league educations and jobs like POTUS are referred to as monkeys or thugs. So certainly it comes as no surprise that the Police whose job is to control and subjugate these "animals" will certainly concur with this assessment of underclass minorities and treat them accordingly.The NEWS story would actually be if this was "not" occurring.

You do realize the black mayor of Baltimore called the rioters "thugs" last evening? As did two councilmen, both of whom are black? They did not use the term animals, but one of the councilmen (young guy) came very close - he was disgusted and disheartened to see his neighborhood destroyed.

[tanner12oz]

August 31, 2014: Illegal gambling

might have been a pa member

[cj]

August 31, 2014: Illegal gambling

might have been a pa member

I thought betting on horses was legal...uh oh!

[Clocker]

Not one poster challenged this dehumanizing characterization of the protesters.This confirms what I stated in the other thread. Minorities in general and underclass minorities in particular are regarded as animals within this society at large.Even Non underclass blacks with Ivy league educations and jobs like POTUS are referred to as monkeys or thugs.

What's to challenge? People that throw rocks at the police are vicious animals. He did not use the terms "underclass" or "minorities". You added those.

Can we presume that you protested greatly at the many, many comparisons between Bush and monkeys made by the left in years past?

[reckless]

I understand the violence and anger coming out of Baltimore and similar cities throughout the once-great USA.

In the black community there is very little hope for a good future, a good job, little education opportunities, a secure neighborhood, and especially a happy and safe family and home life. Sad, very sad, indeed.

The black community, American citizens all, have a right to all this and more, and yet they don't see much of it, if any.

They should exercise their most basic of American rights, the right to vote, and they should vote overwhelmingly for liberal black representatives, liberal black mayors, liberal black city councilmen and women and even liberal black presidents. They should also demand to have liberal black police commissioners too.

What we are seeing in Baltimore is nothing but another chapter in the rolling Ruin America Tour, regularly brought to you by Democrats, liberals, progressives, haters, racists, street thugs and the Obama-Holder Justice Department.

[Marshall Bennett]

There would not be a mob animals throwing rocks, if the cops had done the right thing.
So anytime a cop screws up we throw rocks?

[OntheRail]

The police have admitted to shackling in Grey.
Yes they were transporting him and had to stop to place shackles on him. So he must of done something to effect the additional restraint.

[fast4522]

Where did I say that "all cops are corrupt"? Just because I disagreed with H4C's comment that "the vast majority of the cops do a terrific job" means that I think they are all corrupt?

H4C acknowledges that we need need police, YOU have to acknowledge that they are a cross section of OUR society. WE all have to acknowledge that they share all the ill's we all do being human. I have spent some weeks in Baltimore and can tell you although you have some nice people that you will find anywhere, this part of town they are animals that do not need a reason to go sideways. And even on a good day the police on the job have their hands full. It is not normal to have a killer living on every street, and residents to live in constant fear except in Baltimore. How much slack your willing to afford to the men and women who do our dirty work rest in our conscious that we have to live with.

[cj's dad]

It is now 9/35 pm and gangs of people are within 2 blocks of my home. I am locked and loaded- God help any stranger that pounds on my front door and tries to violate my privacy !!

[davew]

Simply not true. Accidents happen.

Say the guys a loon and takes a running header into the back door or side of the van...unless his feet were shackled (which I highly doubt would ever be the case), it's certainly a possibility.


not true, every civil rights leader 'knows' what happened without even being there

[Rookies]

A story in Toronto's National Post today, who finally gave up on Baltimore after 7 years...

"Baltimore has been losing residents for six decades. They leave because they’re tired of the crime, because there are more jobs elsewhere, because there are better public schools elsewhere. And they leave because they can.

I left because I hated what it was doing to my mind. I hated the desperation and depression in front of me. I hated having to be aware of my surroundings while walking on the street. I hated seeing children who knew they had no future. And I hated watching our neighbour chase barefoot after her boyfriend, who had recently gotten out of jail and walked out of the house one day with her baby girl. She was screaming and hitting him in the middle of the street, trying to rip the baby out of his arms."

Depressing, very depressing. Life doesn't have to be like this. Once asked a member of this forum about how close 'The Wire' correlated with Baltimore.

"100% ": he said. :(

[cj]

So CNN has Montel Williams on, the same guy that is on TV all day hawking loans that target the poor at absurd interest rates. That's nice.

[cj's dad]

A story in Toronto's National Post today, who finally gave up on Baltimore after 7 years...

"Baltimore has been losing residents for six decades. They leave because they’re tired of the crime, because there are more jobs elsewhere, because there are better public schools elsewhere. And they leave because they can.

I left because I hated what it was doing to my mind. I hated the desperation and depression in front of me. I hated having to be aware of my surroundings while walking on the street. I hated seeing children who knew they had no future. And I hated watching our neighbour chase barefoot after her boyfriend, who had recently gotten out of jail and walked out of the house one day with her baby girl. She was screaming and hitting him in the middle of the street, trying to rip the baby out of his arms."

Depressing, very depressing. Life doesn't have to be like this. Once asked a member of this forum about how close 'The Wire' correlated with Baltimore.

"100% ": he said. :(

Some history from a guy that has lived here all 67 years of his life. My city at one time in the 60's/70's had jobs out the wazoo. There were 3 operational steel mills, 3 shipyards., 3 copper refineries, and tons of jobs in construction which led to numerous opportunities as apprentices in the trades. Starting in the late 80's/early 90's all these chances dried up. Add this to the fact that 2/3 of ALL African-Amer. children in Baltimore grow up in single family homes and the outcome is very predictable! The role models become the drug dealers and pimps with wads of cash and flashy cars. not hard working male role models. I have no idea what the answer is but I do know that burning down businesses and vars us not the answer and will not bring back Freddie Gray; a known felon and a person with outstanding wants and warrants.

Rhere are so many blacks in this city with outstanding wants/warrants that even if a job opens up they cannot be hired. A vicious cycle that has no upside !!!

[Clocker]

so many blacks in this city with outstanding wants/warrants that even if a job opens up they cannot be hired. A vicious cycle that has no upside !!!

NBC did a story tonight about Baltimore. One thing they talked about was Martin O'Malley, former Democratic Mayor, former governor, now pushing a presidential run. NBC said that Mayor O'Malley instituted a zero-tolerance crime program, believing that cracking down on all crimes would cut down on the most serious crimes.

It worked, but it left an exceptional number of black males in Baltimore with a conviction and jail time on their records, mostly for drugs, making it very hard to find a job.

Add this to the fact that 2/3 of ALL African-Amer. children in Baltimore grow up in single family homes and the outcome is very predictable!

Studies in all areas show a very strong correlation between single parent families and income inequality and lack of economic mobility up the earnings ladder.

[davew]

Is this not justifiable civil rights anarchy?

[Tom]

Sidebar:

America obviously has, a big problem, with the enforcement activities of various police forces vis a vis Black minority communities.

Obviously?
Based on several cherry-picked news stories over a year and a half?
Perhaps it is the Black comminuty that has a big problem with living civil and respecting authority and not blaming it all on White America.

[Tom]

Not one poster challenged this dehumanizing characterization of the protesters.

They earned.
When act like animal, you get called animals.
I called for shooting anyone throwing rocks.

Good thing for you I am not in charge.
You would be scheduling funerals through June if I was.

[Tom]

Is this not justifiable civil rights anarchy?

The riots?
No at all it was not even about civil rights - it was about stealing and partying - like all the riots are.

If they burned down the mayor's house, then I might agree with you.

[newtothegame]

Hmmm interesting take if true.......
Now understand I am not taking one side or the other...but if true, this story should be out there.....

"Which brings us to a potential game changing discovery showing up in some social media about Freddie Gray having spinal surgery shortly before the events outlined within the controversial encounter. It must be noted however, that none of this is factually confirmed and we should research further".

"“Freddie Gray had a pre-existing spinal and neck injury [from a car accident] and had severe damage and scar tissue from an accident that Allstate insurance was paying via a large structured settlement.

Freddie had several unsuccessful spinal fusion surgeries, and his most recent spinal/cervical operation was a week and a half before he was arrested. Freddie should have been at home in bed resting and recovering from this recent major operation.

If you look on Howard County Civil Court records you will find a case whereby Freddie Gray Jr. was trying to cash in his monthly structured Allstate settlement into a lump sum payout through Peachtree funding”.

The Fourth Estate has contacted sources who allege that Freddy Gray received spinal and neck surgery a week before we was arrested, and was allegedly receiving a large structured settlement from Allstate Insurance. The surgery is allegedly related to a car accident in which Gray was involved (more)

Indeed there is a civil tort case in the Circuit Court for Howard County – Civil System listing Freddie Gray Jr. as party to a civil action structured between Peachtree Settlement Funding LLC and Allstate Life Insurance Company"

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/04/28/did-freddie-gray-have-spinal-surgery-from-car-accident-a-week-before-his-arrest/


"

[Kash$]

People/Kids and elderly living in the neighborhood who are sick and need there medicine now what?The lowlifes burned the f$%^king CVS down!:bang:

[Clocker]

Steny Hoyer, the number 2 Democrat in the House, says the problems in Baltimore are caused by the lack of federal "investment" in "proper infrastructure and proper housing".

http://dailycaller.com/2015/04/28/democratic-leader-says-solution-in-baltimore-is-more-federal-spending/

[Tom]

Steny Hoyer is an idiot.

[PaceAdvantage]

Thanks Tom,I can always rely on you.Underclass minorities throwing rocks are "animals".Not one poster challenged this dehumanizing characterization of the protesters.This confirms what I stated in the other thread. Minorities in general and underclass minorities in particular are regarded as animals within this society at large.Even Non underclass blacks with Ivy league educations and jobs like POTUS are referred to as monkeys or thugs. So certainly it comes as no surprise that the Police whose job is to control and subjugate these "animals" will certainly concur with this assessment of underclass minorities and treat them accordingly.The NEWS story would actually be if this was "not" occurring.False. Tom would be categorizing any group of rock throwing rioters as animals. And rightly so.

That they happen to be minorities in this instance is your own personal straw man.

[PaceAdvantage]

http://www.baltimoresun.com/health/bs-hs-gray-injuries-20150420-story.html

Please. Read a little further....they haven't released the autopsy, of course. But, they do have evidence of the extent of the injuries to his neck and voice box.

Yeah, he probably could've broken his own neck but something in me doubts it. Still, I have high regard for police officers...one lives across the street from me. They have dangerous jobs. Not always easy to carry out, and get right, every single incident.

I watched last night while a new 60 room senior center to be opened in November providing housing for the elderly and infirmed burned to the ground....and listened to the black minister whose church built it. :(Injuries to the voice box would certainly bolster the claim of criminal misconduct by the police.

I harbor no illusions here. I'm fairly certain any betting man would put their money on the police officers being the cause of his fatal injuries.

[PaceAdvantage]

Hmmm interesting take if true.......
Now understand I am not taking one side or the other...but if true, this story should be out there.....

"Which brings us to a potential game changing discovery showing up in some social media about Freddie Gray having spinal surgery shortly before the events outlined within the controversial encounter. It must be noted however, that none of this is factually confirmed and we should research further".

"“Freddie Gray had a pre-existing spinal and neck injury [from a car accident] and had severe damage and scar tissue from an accident that Allstate insurance was paying via a large structured settlement.

Freddie had several unsuccessful spinal fusion surgeries, and his most recent spinal/cervical operation was a week and a half before he was arrested. Freddie should have been at home in bed resting and recovering from this recent major operation.

If you look on Howard County Civil Court records you will find a case whereby Freddie Gray Jr. was trying to cash in his monthly structured Allstate settlement into a lump sum payout through Peachtree funding”.

The Fourth Estate has contacted sources who allege that Freddy Gray received spinal and neck surgery a week before we was arrested, and was allegedly receiving a large structured settlement from Allstate Insurance. The surgery is allegedly related to a car accident in which Gray was involved (more)

Indeed there is a civil tort case in the Circuit Court for Howard County – Civil System listing Freddie Gray Jr. as party to a civil action structured between Peachtree Settlement Funding LLC and Allstate Life Insurance Company"

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/04/28/did-freddie-gray-have-spinal-surgery-from-car-accident-a-week-before-his-arrest/


"I guess this would lessen the charges to manslaughter from murder.

[Tom]

False. Tom would be categorizing any group of rock throwing rioters as animals. And rightly so.

That they happen to be minorities in this instance is your own personal straw man.

I had done that with rioting WHITE union workers before.

Interesting that Hank had no concern for those the rocks were thrown at, or the business owners who's lives were destroyed by the fires. Or the people who live there and now have no place nearby to shop.

[PaceAdvantage]

I had done that with rioting WHITE union workers before.

Interesting that Hank had no concern for those the rocks were thrown at, or the business owners who's lives were destroyed by the fires. Or the people who live there and now have no place nearby to shop.He probably considers that collateral damage in the ongoing struggle and rock-solid (pun intended) RIGHTS of the disenfranchised to wreak havoc whenever and wherever they see fit.

Never mind that the VAST MAJORITY of those anarchists roaming the street are nothing more than OPPORTUNISTS...they couldn't care less about the dead suspect with a broken neck.

[Tom]

These idiots have pushed the real story here to page 10.
My belief is this kid was murdered, by accident most likely, by cops.
There is history of other people being paralyzed by Baltimore police and winning law suits. I saw video of being dragged to the van, seemingly unable to use his legs.

And the rhetoric on TV the night of the riots was that they were sending White America a message. What should White America do, Hank?
Send a bunch of old white republicans down to clean up the mess created by the Black Democrats in Baltimore?

The message was received - Black people rioting and looting again. :sleeping:
Funny way to redress the murder of a kid - destroy the lives and businesses of innocent locals.

[PaceAdvantage]

Send a bunch of old white republicans down to clean up the mess created by the Black Democrats in Baltimore?It's a start, at least.

[Tom]

I'll go.
I need some more Tasty Cakes, Chocolate Juniors.
Hope they didn't burn the gas station I used to get them from. :p

[Saratoga_Mike]

NBC did a story tonight about Baltimore. One thing they talked about was Martin O'Malley, former Democratic Mayor, former governor, now pushing a presidential run. NBC said that Mayor O'Malley instituted a zero-tolerance crime program, believing that cracking down on all crimes would cut down on the most serious crimes.



James Q. Wilson's "Broken Window" theory - also used by Rudy to clean up NYC and reduce the crime rate dramatically under his watch

[Tom]

But that doesn't give people who want to destroy room to do so.

[Robert Goren]

James Q. Wilson's "Broken Window" theory - also used by Rudy to clean up NYC and reduce the crime rate dramatically under his watchIn order for it to be effective, the "broken windows" theory must applied to all including cops. (and white collar crime) That means an end to cops covering for other cops. The laws must be equally enforced. If a guy goes to jail for beating some up, so must a cop. . If somebody goes to jail for robbing a 7-11, then the banker who steals from his bank to play the markets has to go too. Otherwise it will not work.

[Tom]

How many bankers stealing as compared to purse snatchers and liquor store hold up do you suppose there are?

It worked in NY.
How many bankers went to jail?
How many cops?

[horses4courses]

Send a bunch of old white republicans down to clean up the mess created by the Black Democrats in Baltimore?

Heck, that would be great. :rolleyes:

How long before the deals start passing to buy up
real estate there for pennies on the dollar?

Watch their cronies snatch the rubble for a song,
then stick a few band aids on for profit.

Regular Abe Lincolns....... :rolleyes:

[Saratoga_Mike]

In order for it to be effective, the "broken windows" theory must applied to all including cops. (and white collar crime) That means an end to cops covering for other cops. The laws must be equally enforced. If a guy goes to jail for beating some up, so must a cop. . If somebody goes to jail for robbing a 7-11, then the banker who steals from his bank to play the markets has to go too. Otherwise it will not work.

1,000+ FEWER BLACK MALES MURDERED/YR UNDER RUDY by end of his first term. It worked.

Prosecute bad cops. Prosecute the banker who steals from his bank.

[TJDave]

How many bankers stealing as compared to purse snatchers and liquor store hold up do you suppose there are?


There aren't enough petty thieves on this planet to match what one banker can steal...

On an off day.

[Tom]

Heck, that would be great. :rolleyes:

How long before the deals start passing to buy up
real estate there for pennies on the dollar?

Watch their cronies snatch the rubble for a song,
then stick a few band aids on for profit.

Regular Abe Lincolns....... :rolleyes:

Well, they want to send us a message. It is clear that BLACK DEMOCRATS have no ability to fix Baltimore. I used to hang out there about once a month for years, in all the wrong places to get to the now razed GM plant (thousands of jobs lost - under dem leadership - why would GM invest in a new plant there when the whole area around Broening Highway was crap?
What you describe as the results of repub leadership is probably far better that what the dems have given them so far.

I love Baltimore - my favorite city to go to over the years, Detroit next.
Both down the tubes under democrats.

So fire away......when you know the truth, it is quite funny.

[fast4522]

To steal from another thread deep in a link. . . .

"general economic recovery in the United States has been ‘grossly overstated"


And who does this adversely effect the most in our country?

The man has sold his people out at every chance, sure they are going sideways because of spilled blood but there was an extreme hurting going on before it occurred.

[Tom]

There aren't enough petty thieves on this planet to match what one banker can steal...

On an off day.

Not relevant to the topic at hand.

[Clocker]

A very good editorial in the WSJ describes the total failure of what they call "The Blue-City Model".

You’re not supposed to say this in polite company, but what went up in flames in Baltimore Monday night was not merely a senior center, small businesses and police cars. Burning down was also the blue-city model of urban governance.

The men and women in charge have been Democrats, and their governing ideas are “progressive.” This model, with its reliance on government and public unions, has dominated urban America as once-vibrant cities such as Baltimore became shells of their former selves. In 1960 Baltimore was America’s sixth largest city with 940,000 people. It has since shed nearly a third of its population and today isn’t in the top 25.

The dysfunctions of the blue-city model are many, but the main failures are three: high crime, low economic growth and failing public schools that serve primarily as jobs programs for teachers and administrators rather than places of learning.


Can't link directly because of the WSJ paywall. Google "The Blue-City Model" for the whole thing.

[badcompany]

A very good editorial in the WSJ describes the total failure of what they call "The Blue-City Model".



Can't link directly because of the WSJ paywall. Google "The Blue-City Model" for the whole thing.

Countdown to Libs claiming that's it not enough government that's the problem.

Another excuse is to blame the people who left or "voted with their feet."

[Clocker]

Countdown to Libs claiming that's it not enough government that's the problem.


I posted a link in the other Riot thread about Steny Hoyer, Democratic House Whip, blaming Baltimore's problems on insufficient federal "investment" on infrastructure and housing.

The typical progressive reaction. We spend billions of dollars every year to combat poverty. It never works, so the only answer to to spend more.

[davew]

Countdown to Libs claiming that's it not enough government that's the problem.

Another excuse is to blame the people who left or "voted with their feet."

They need to hire more people to stand around and watch the mayhem - maybe put those looters to work.

[Tom]

Where's Obama on this? He makes statements on everything else race related.

He finally made a comment.
As usual, he was:

1. A day late
2. A dollar short
3. Off the mark.

Blamed the media and cops for this.
Spouted off totally inaccurate "facts"

You know, the words of an uncaring, lying SOB.

[Clocker]

Obama did call the looters criminals and thugs, but only after a lot of this:

President Obama on Tuesday urged Americans to “do some soul-searching” and work harder to end what he called the “slow-rolling crisis” of deaths of black men at the hands of police officers as he addressed the riots in Baltimore.

“This is not new. It’s been going on for decades,” Obama said from the White House a day after rioting erupted in Baltimore following the funeral for Freddie Gray, a 25-year-old black man who died of a spinal-cord injury while in police custody.

“We have seen too many instances of what appears to be police officers interacting with individuals, primarily African-American, often poor, in ways that raise troubling questions. It comes up, it seems like, once a week now,” Obama said.

http://nypost.com/2015/04/28/obama-calls-baltimore-rioters-criminals-and-thugs/

[Robert Goren]

If the Freddie Grey had not died in custody or if a cop had been arrested, the riots would not have happened. That is the root cause of the riots. Attack the cause and you will see an end to the results. It is going to be a long summer, if we see more of what happened in Baltimore. A GOP mayor running Baltimore will not change much unless he or she addresses the problem it has with the certain members of the police force.

[PaceAdvantage]

If the Freddie Grey had not died in custody or if a cop had been arrested, the riots would not have happened. That is the root cause of the riots. Attack the cause and you will see an end to the results. It is going to be a long summer, if we see more of what happened in Baltimore. A GOP mayor running Baltimore will not change much unless he or she addresses the problem it has with the certain members of the police force.The root cause of the riots are criminals. Get that through your head.

[JustRalph]

If the Freddie Grey had not died in custody or if a cop had been arrested, the riots would not have happened. That is the root cause of the riots. Attack the cause and you will see an end to the results. It is going to be a long summer, if we see more of what happened in Baltimore. A GOP mayor running Baltimore will not change much unless he or she addresses the problem it has with the certain members of the police force.


The problem with Baltimore is failed Left wing policies, failed Left wing leaders, and the 50 yrs of entrenched Left wing government.

The permanent underclass is rioting after continually endorsing the Blue State Mentality for 50 years.

The entire State is a failure. Rated 45th in friendliness to business. 49th in job creation. In the top ten in taxes collected. This is a state that taxes the rainfall!

This is a state that gouges citizens to cross the bay bridge, go through a tunnel or rent a hotel room.

[PaceAdvantage]

Democrats never own their failures.

But they insist Republicans own theirs...like Iraq...

Democrats always have something to blame other than themselves and their abyssal policies.

The proof is in the pudding. Very, very, very few success stories among these Democrat inner-city strongholds...generations of Democratic control...and never much of any progress.

The blind leading the blind...

Keep voting for the liberals that promise the free money folks. :rolleyes:

[Robert Goren]

The problem with Baltimore is failed Left wing policies, failed Left wing leaders, and the 50 yrs of entrenched Left wing government.

The permanent underclass is rioting after continually endorsing the Blue State Mentality for 50 years.

The entire State is a failure. Rated 45th in friendliness to business. 49th in job creation. In the top ten in taxes collected. This is a state that taxes the rainfall!

This is a state that gouges citizens to cross the bay bridge, go through a tunnel or rent a hotel room. The democratic mayor did not kill Freddie Grey. But she should be held accountable for not making the necessary changes to the police dept. that would have prevent his death. She also should be held accountable for not getting out the exact circumstances of his death. It is inexcusable that after 3 weeks, we have very little idea of what happened except he died when he should not have. The more time passes, the less likely we ever know and the less likely anyone will be charged.

[Robert Goren]

The root cause of the riots are criminals. Get that through your head.Are saying that would be riots if Freddie Grey had not died in police custody? If you are, then we disagree.

[NJ Stinks]

Obama did call the looters criminals and thugs, but only after a lot of this:



http://nypost.com/2015/04/28/obama-calls-baltimore-rioters-criminals-and-thugs/

Another 'yea, but'. :rolleyes:

[PaceAdvantage]

She also should be held accountable for not getting out the exact circumstances of his death. It is inexcusable that after 3 weeks, we have very little idea of what happened except he died when he should not have.Shall we suspend the constitution and have those involved incriminate themselves?

Or perhaps we should water board all cops present at the time?

What exactly do you think is going on? Cops just walking up and confessing exactly what happened? You have very little idea of what happened because nobody is talking, and one witness is dead.

[PaceAdvantage]

Are saying that would be riots if Freddie Grey had not died in police custody? If you are, then we disagree.Are you saying these people have a legitimate reason to conduct anarchy?

I better not ever see you condemn an act of vigilante justice on this board...

[NJ Stinks]

The problem with Baltimore is failed Left wing policies, failed Left wing leaders, and the 50 yrs of entrenched Left wing government.

The permanent underclass is rioting after continually endorsing the Blue State Mentality for 50 years.

The entire State is a failure. Rated 45th in friendliness to business. 49th in job creation. In the top ten in taxes collected. This is a state that taxes the rainfall!

This is a state that gouges citizens to cross the bay bridge, go through a tunnel or rent a hotel room.

We got it already. You moved from Maryland to Shangri la. Good for you.

[johnhannibalsmith]

We got it already. You moved from Maryland to Shangri la. Good for you.

Yeah, just name yourself after the crappy state already!

[Clocker]

Another 'yea, but'. :rolleyes:

Yeah, Obama does that a lot. They were thugs, but..., followed by a sermon on "...what appears to be police officers interacting with individuals, primarily African-American, often poor, in ways that raise troubling questions"

He says he sees a lot more of that stuff lately. Strange that it seems to be getting worse the longer he is in office, especially after 6 years of Eric Holder running the Golden Age of DOJ.

[Clocker]

The democratic mayor did not kill Freddie Grey. But she should be held accountable for not making the necessary changes to the police dept. that would have prevent his death.

That would be the police department that became what it is under 40 years of Democratic mayors and city councils?

[NJ Stinks]

Yeah, just name yourself after the crappy state already!

Yea, but..... ;)

[davew]

A Baltimore councilperson just said that thug is a derogatory term as bad as the N word. He felt the rioting is similar to when Kentucky won national championship a few year ago.

There is just a little civil protesting going on there, and now in other cities...

[Clocker]

He felt the rioting is similar to when Kentucky won national championship a few year ago.


I can't remember. How many businesses were looted, destroyed, or burn to the ground in that one? How many jobs for locals were wiped out? How many cops were hospitalized?

[hcap]

Hmmm interesting take if true.......
Now understand I am not taking one side or the other...but if true, this story should be out there.....

"Which brings us to a potential game changing discovery showing up in some social media about Freddie Gray having spinal surgery shortly before the events outlined within the controversial encounter. It must be noted however, that none of this is factually confirmed and we should research further".

"“Freddie Gray had a pre-existing spinal and neck injury [from a car accident] and had severe damage and scar tissue from an accident that Allstate insurance was paying via a large structured settlement.

Freddie had several unsuccessful spinal fusion surgeries, and his most recent spinal/cervical operation was a week and a half before he was arrested. Freddie should have been at home in bed resting and recovering from this recent major operation.

If you look on Howard County Civil Court records you will find a case whereby Freddie Gray Jr. was trying to cash in his monthly structured Allstate settlement into a lump sum payout through Peachtree funding”.

The Fourth Estate has contacted sources who allege that Freddy Gray received spinal and neck surgery a week before we was arrested, and was allegedly receiving a large structured settlement from Allstate Insurance. The surgery is allegedly related to a car accident in which Gray was involved (more)

Indeed there is a civil tort case in the Circuit Court for Howard County – Civil System listing Freddie Gray Jr. as party to a civil action structured between Peachtree Settlement Funding LLC and Allstate Life Insurance Company"

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/04/28/did-freddie-gray-have-spinal-surgery-from-car-accident-a-week-before-his-arrest/
"More righty bullshit.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bs-md-gray-settlement-20150429-story.html

....But court records examined Wednesday by The Baltimore Sun show the case had nothing to do with a car accident or a spine injury. Instead, they are connected to a lawsuit alleging that Gray and his sister were injured by exposure to lead paint.

Paperwork was filed in December allowing Gray and his sister, Fredericka to each collect an $18,000 payment from Peachtree Settlement Funding, records show. In exchange, Peachtree would have received a $108,439 annuity that was scheduled to be paid in $602 monthly installments between 2024 and 2039.

[RunForTheRoses]

A Baltimore councilperson just said that thug is a derogatory term as bad as the N word. He felt the rioting is similar to when Kentucky won national championship a few year ago.


Thug please...

[Clocker]

The Washington Post reports that another prisoner in the van says Freddie Gray was intentionally trying to injure himself during the ride.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/prisoner-in-van-said-freddie-gray-was-banging-against-the-walls-during-ride/2015/04/29/56d7da10-eec6-11e4-8666-a1d756d0218e_story.html?postshare=5491430356684020

[PaceAdvantage]

The Washington Post reports that another prisoner in the van says Freddie Gray was intentionally trying to injure himself during the ride.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/prisoner-in-van-said-freddie-gray-was-banging-against-the-walls-during-ride/2015/04/29/56d7da10-eec6-11e4-8666-a1d756d0218e_story.html?postshare=5491430356684020 Maybe he was trying to make lawsuits his livelihood...thought he could rough himself up a little, claim police brutality, and went too far.

Who knows...nobody knows...pure speculation on all sides...but that never stopped a little healthy and justifiable rioting (not justifiable by this author, but apparently justified by quite a few misguided folks in this thread).

It's funny really (in a sad way). People will bend over backwards to justify the criminal riots ("well, they wouldn't be rioting if Freddie hadn't died in police custody.") But they won't bend over backwards to justify criminal police brutality, considering the police deal with the lowest forms of life on a daily basis, know exactly who and what they are likely dealing with, and have been battle-hardened via years of exposure to this nasty, brutal underbelly of society.

But they are never justified when they snap and rough somebody up. The rioters though...they're always justified somehow..."they're victims acting out."

Cops can't be victims of what they're exposed to every day though...no compassion for them...the rioters though...they're placed on the same level as "freedom fighters" by some in this thread.

[MutuelClerk]

Baltimore is?...... A microcosm of society. White cops vs black citizens is sadly just the start. There's a groundswell of unrest in this country. It's not just blacks, it's become the havenots vs the haves. Black, white, doesn't matter. It's about GREEN. The wealth isn't as spread out as it used to be. That's finally become a real problem here. It's not to far away where politicians wont be speaking publically because of fear. Or they are to busy stuffing their pockets.

[PaceAdvantage]

What defines the wealth gap? How much different is it than say 40 years ago? 30 years ago?

[GaryG]

Baltimore is?...... A microcosm of society. White cops vs black citizens is sadly just the start. There's a groundswell of unrest in this country. It's not just blacks, it's become the havenots vs the haves. Black, white, doesn't matter. It's about GREEN. The wealth isn't as spread out as it used to be. That's finally become a real problem here. It's not to far away where politicians wont be speaking publically because of fear. Or they are to busy stuffing their pockets.You mean we are looking at the American version of the French Revolution or will it be more like the Bolsheviks? You know what happened to the HMFIC in each of those.

[Robert Goren]

Maybe he was trying to make lawsuits his livelihood...thought he could rough himself up a little, claim police brutality, and went too far.

Who knows...nobody knows...pure speculation on all sides...but that never stopped a little healthy and justifiable rioting (not justifiable by this author, but apparently justified by quite a few misguided folks in this thread).

It's funny really (in a sad way). People will bend over backwards to justify the criminal riots ("well, they wouldn't be rioting if Freddie hadn't died in police custody.") But they won't bend over backwards to justify criminal police brutality, considering the police deal with the lowest forms of life on a daily basis, know exactly who and what they are likely dealing with, and have been battle-hardened via years of exposure to this nasty, brutal underbelly of society.

But they are never justified when they snap and rough somebody up. The rioters though...they're always justified somehow..."they're victims acting out."

Cops can't be victims of what they're exposed to every day though...no compassion for them...the rioters though...they're placed on the same level as "freedom fighters" by some in this thread. I seen a lot of condemning o the riots here and on tv. Very little the condemning of what of the police did. It seems less there is a video, the police get a pass. The same can not be said any civilian, white or black. They don't a confession or video to charge you or me, so why do they need one to charge a cop. The rioting is wrong, but so was the police actions. If nothing else, the at least 45 minute gap between the time it was clear to everyone that Grey was injured and when medical was called for is a chargeable offense, a least it would be in Nebraska.

[Inner Dirt]

Maybe he was trying to make lawsuits his livelihood...thought he could rough himself up a little, claim police brutality, and went too far.

Who knows...nobody knows...pure speculation on all sides...but that never stopped a little healthy and justifiable rioting (not justifiable by this author, but apparently justified by quite a few misguided folks in this thread).

It's funny really (in a sad way). People will bend over backwards to justify the criminal riots ("well, they wouldn't be rioting if Freddie hadn't died in police custody.") But they won't bend over backwards to justify criminal police brutality, considering the police deal with the lowest forms of life on a daily basis, know exactly who and what they are likely dealing with, and have been battle-hardened via years of exposure to this nasty, brutal underbelly of society.

But they are never justified when they snap and rough somebody up. The rioters though...they're always justified somehow..."they're victims acting out."

Cops can't be victims of what they're exposed to every day though...no compassion for them...the rioters though...they're placed on the same level as "freedom fighters" by some in this thread.

As someone who is somewhat knowledgeable about spinal cord injuries (had neck and back fractures at 15 and 18) due to the fact he was only 25 (in a healthy person bone health does not deteriorate one bit till you hit your 30's) and the fact the spine can flex quite a bit, it is pretty much impossible to self sever your own spinal cord unless you hung yourself, or jumped from at least a story or more and landed wrong. He could have done neither. Look at all the violent collisions in the NFL and even vertebrae fractures are rare. If I had to place a wager his body was twisted in multiple directions in a fight with police. Like I said the spine can take a lot of punishment especially in a young man, I would set the odds at 50-1 that this was not self caused, unfortunately we may not know the real truth.

Please note, I am a Republican who through personal experience (Father was a cop, also and uncle, and friends of friends) knows they aren't how the public perceives them. They aren't as good as the cop lovers make them out to be nor as bad as the haters think they are. I know from playing bouncer at college parties as a youth it is near impossible to restrain someone with out injuring them unless you are vastly superior to them in strength. I can see how people get injured confronting police even by accident. I just wish the cops default response would be to come clean, unfortunately the cover up starts the second something goes awry.

On the other hand I wonder why the dirtbags (is that more PC than thugs?)
that are stealing and destroying their own town never even acknowledge the dead guy's past. The guy was an obvious drug addict and dealer who had like 18 arrests? If you are high on drugs and keep interacting with the police with frequency, one of them is going to eventually end badly. Not excusing excessive force but Freddie Gray's chances of having a negative interaction with police was pretty high.

[Tom]

I seen a lot of condemning o the riots here and on tv. Very little the condemning of what of the police did.

Then you're not watching the right channels.
And anyway the riots Dwarf what the police may or may not have done.

[PaceAdvantage]

Like I said prior, any betting man would be betting on the police somehow causing his fatal injury. I do wonder where this rumor of spinal surgery prior to his arrest and subsequent death emanated from and if there is any fire to that small puff of smoke.

[Robert Fischer]

I see it as a systemic thing.

lots of frustrated people that are losing

when you have a Freddie Gray incident... these citizens feel they have the green light to act out.

It's not these guys love Freddy Gray, or hate what happened to him. It's a 'symbolic' thing.

it's just part of the current system

many will play, few will win, incentives will not always be in line exactly the way our precepts say they are, some people will not lose with grace.

we could make the media even more censored, we could have teams to more aggressively censor and disrupt social media, we could have a faster harsher more violent response to civil unrest...

There aren't a lot of 'pretty' solutions, that are necessarily better than our reality.

If it makes you feel better, call these people animals, or thugs. Sometimes it's hard to say "yea, the system is going to produce some of this stuff".

and, No, I do not personally want to change the system. I like it this way.
I'm simply telling you what I see.

[OTM Al]

Like I said prior, any betting man would be betting on the police somehow causing his fatal injury. I do wonder where this rumor of spinal surgery prior to his arrest and subsequent death emanated from and if there is any fire to that small puff of smoke.

No, there apparently isn't

http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/freddiegraysuit.asp

[Robert Goren]

Then you're not watching the right channels.
And anyway the riots Dwarf what the police may or may not have done. Someone is dead because of what the police did. In my opinion a death trumps property loss every time. I watch CNN and a little Fox News. All they do is complain about the lack of information on what the police did or did not do. I see very little condemnation of the police, but a lot of condemnation of the rioters, mostly by whites. I have yet to see a white person on tv condemn what the police did. It is like they are scared to say anything bad about the police. This should not be a racial issue, but seems there some whites are trying to make it into one by blaming everyone including the victim, but the police. As I said before, there would be no riots if Freddie Grey had not died in custody.

[johnhannibalsmith]

We're America for hell's sake. If we can't tear up a city out of perceived abuses by policing forces, then what do we have left that connects us to our roots?

[GaryG]

As I said before, there would be no riots if Freddie Grey had not died in custody.Would there be riots if Freddie were white?

[Greyfox]

I see very little condemnation of the police, but a lot of condemnation of the rioters, mostly by whites. I have yet to see a white person on tv condemn what the police did. .

Robert Goren - Tell us specifically what the police did.
I haven't seen any reporting to date saying what the police actually did.
You seem to know, so tell us.

[Robert Goren]

Would there be riots if Freddie were white? Good question? probably not. Next question Would he have died in police custody if he were White?

[GaryG]

Good question? probably not. Next question Would he have died in police custody if he were White?If he acted in the same manner a white man could very easily have ended up dead. When perps act violently toward the police you can be sure that there will be a reaction. The police officers have to be recruited from the human race after all.

[PaceAdvantage]

Good question? probably not. Next question Would he have died in police custody if he were White?I doubt police treat white lowlifes any differently than black, brown or any other color lowlifes.

Lowlifes are lowlifes. Does that justify police brutality? No. But it explains it.

Just like you and others explain the rioting. But you also seem to justify it in a way, don't you agree?

[Robert Goren]

Robert Goren - Tell us specifically what the police did.
I haven't seen any reporting to date saying what the police actually did.
You seem to know, so tell us. Here is what we know. He did not receive immediate medical attention. He was shackled in the paddy wagon but did not have seat belt on. One video appears to shows him standing on his own as he entered the paddy wagon. He was alive when he entered the paddy wagon. The only people who had contact with him in the paddy wagon were police officers. Another prisoner was in the van at the same time but segregated from him by a barrier. He came out the paddy wagon in a lot worse shape than when he entered it. There have been statements by 5 of the 6 officers involved, but they have not been released to the public. It has been reported that none of the statement can be used in court, but I have not heard a reason why? It is 3 weeks since he died and no autopsy report has been released.

[Tom]

It is 3 weeks since he died and no autopsy report has been released.

If it is not released by 5PM Friday, K Mart goes up in smoke!

[Robert Goren]

I doubt police treat white lowlifes any differently than black, brown or any other color lowlifes.

Lowlifes are lowlifes. Does that justify police brutality? No. But it explains it.

Just like you and others explain the rioting. But you also seem to justify it in a way, don't you agree? I don't justify the rioting. It should be happening. But I am not turning a blind eye to the motives of the rioters either. Again I ask you, do you believe that there would be riots if Grey had not died in custody? It is a simple yes or no question.

[Tom]

Rioting SHOULD be happening?

[Greyfox]

Here is what we know. He did not receive immediate medical attention. He was shackled in the paddy wagon but did not have seat belt on. One video appears to shows him standing on his own as he entered the paddy wagon. He was alive when he entered the paddy wagon. The only people who had contact with him in the paddy wagon were police officers. Another prisoner was in the van at the same time but segregated from him by a barrier. He came out the paddy wagon in a lot worse shape than when he entered it. There have been statements by 5 of the 6 officers involved, but they have not been released to the public. It has been reported that none of the statement can be used in court, but I have not heard a reason why? It is 3 weeks since he died and no autopsy report has been released.

That is what we know, but except for not putting a seat belt on him, which is what they didn't do, you still haven't stated what the police did.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Any smart tradesman worth his salt would go after the bounty stashed in the back of a CVS if there was a perfect opportunity to get away with it. They keep showing these guys storming out with toilet paper and all I can think is somebody is laughing his ass off being called a common looter while they talk about it as though it is ground zero for social discontent.

[GaryG]

Rioting SHOULD be happening?I think he left out the word NOT....I certainly hope so.

[Robert Fischer]

One thing that I've found out as a disabled person in Maryland while preparing for this next open-heart surgery, is that the medical coverage is a bit 'tight' here.

Upon moving here from Pennsylvania, my state medical insurance was reduced from 'Medicaid' to a lesser program called MAP('Maryland Assistance Program'). I was shown a sliding-income scale that factors in the number of children you have care of? and was told that if you receive a disability benefit greater than the luxurious sum of $350 that your are disqualified from Medicaid.
(Maryland, like all other states combine disabled and poor into one group, and assuming competence of my local office, seems to combine similar things for disabled citizens, such as #o'kids).

I've also found out that Disabled Adults (and I'd assume 'poor adults' as well) are also not entitled to any Dental Care coverage. I admit I haven't thought about it much, but I had never thought of annual checkups and basic dental work as a class thing. It is actually quite strict. In spite of pre-op surgical clearance requiring me to have some teeth pulled as a medically necessary step before my surgery, there is no way to obtain coverage of the procedure. It should cost no more than 3 months of disability income if all goes well.

No, I haven't joined-in on burning down what's left of the remains of that CVS, but some of this has seemed illogical and frustrating.

[Clocker]

ABC News in Baltimore says the preliminary evidence shows the head injury was sustained in the van, after the arrest.

An investigation into the death of Baltimore resident Freddie Gray has found no evidence that his fatal injuries were caused during the videotaped arrest and interaction with police officers, according to multiple law enforcement sources.

Sources said the medical examiner found Gray's catastrophic injury was caused when he slammed into the back of the police transport van, apparently breaking his neck; a head injury he sustained matches a bolt in the back of the van.

Details surrounding exactly what caused Gray to slam into the back of the van was unclear. The officer driving the van has yet to give a statement to authorities. It’s also unclear whether Gray’s head injury was voluntary or was a result of some other action.


Read more: http://www.wjla.com/articles/2015/04/breaking-news-no-evidence-found-that-freddie-gray-s-death-was-result-of-police-who-arrested-him-prob.html#ixzz3YpJCIkQ0

[JustRalph]

The plot thickens

Those cops are loving this finding

Back in the day there was something called a "brake check"

If this idiot threw himself against the cage trying to mark his face up, shame on him.

[Clocker]

The plot thickens

I don't understand this. The experts here stated conclusively that the guy's neck was already broken in the video when he was being perp walked toward the van. I don't know who to believe. :eek:

[JustRalph]

I hope those who were looted sue the Mayor

http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2015/04/30/sheriff-michael-lewis-on-the-stand-down-orders-given-to-city-officers/

She should be thrown out of office

[Robert Goren]

That is what we know, but except for not putting a seat belt on him, which is what they didn't do, you still haven't stated what the police did.Not putting a seat belt on him and not getting him immediate medical help killed him. That is negligent homicide in Nebraska. I do not what they call it in Maryland, but I am sure there has to be a similar law covering it. That would be the least of the possible illegal actions by one or more cops that must of happened. Of course, any other police officers that took part in a cover up should prosecuted.

[cj's dad]

10 PM curfew sucks big time. The local businesses inmy area are being killed by having to shut down at 9:30 PM so the patrons van clear out. All ofthis because of assholes on the other sifde of town !!!

[Greyfox]

Of course, any other police officers that took part in a cover up should prosecuted.

You've seen evidence of a cover up?

[Clocker]

You've seen evidence of a cover up?

Evidence? We don't need no stinkin' evidence.

[Stillriledup]

You've seen evidence of a cover up?

Of course not, police dont ever cover anything up, if a fellow officer was found to go against procedure, he would be outed instantly, you know, that's how cops work things, turn in your partner at the drop of a hat, so yea, there's no cover ups in police work, officers don't have each other's backs, if one officer sees something that's not right,he will say something even if it hurts his colleagues. That's how cops work it, so no, no cover up.

[Tom]

I don't understand this. The experts here stated conclusively that the guy's neck was already broken in the video when he was being perp walked toward the van. I don't know who to believe. :eek:

A witness's account last week was that the guy was twisted up like a pretzel.
Then he was dragged to the van apparently unable to use his legs.
Funny how that got silenced.

I think he was mauled by an over-zealous cop and died from not being given the medical care he was crying out for. We may find out today.

My big question is why was he chased in the first place?

[Clocker]

My big question is why was he chased in the first place?

The story I read was that he was standing with a group of guys in an area well known for drug dealing. When some police pulled up, this guy took off running, so they chased him. Given his record, they may have known him also.

[PaceAdvantage]

Of course not, police dont ever cover anything up, if a fellow officer was found to go against procedure, he would be outed instantly, you know, that's how cops work things, turn in your partner at the drop of a hat, so yea, there's no cover ups in police work, officers don't have each other's backs, if one officer sees something that's not right,he will say something even if it hurts his colleagues. That's how cops work it, so no, no cover up.Your shtick is way past fresh.

[Robert Fischer]

If Freddy Gray had been injured in a Walmart (and perhaps extrapolate the example to say his family wished to sue Walmart for his injuries), there'd be visual evidence as to what happened.

Businesses seem to know that cameras are cost-effective.

Somehow a camera on the uniform, squad car, and in the back of the 'paddy wagon, are not cost effective. Even after we factor in that the precept that the businesses are somewhat private in nature and concerned with their own profit, while the police are in fact our public servants.

Miraculously lawyers representing FG's family have obtained some film of the initial arrest such as below, that we are to believe was taken by citizens of this relatively poor neighborhood? All very difficult...
http://media4.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2015_17/985151/150420-freddie-gray_arrest-cell-phone-jsw_a13d55bf1ef12bf4ef0fbbf7cc9de1b0.nbcnews-ux-560-900.jpg

[Robert Goren]

You've seen evidence of a cover up?The mere fact that no charges have been filed is evidence. If a cop had died in the scuffle, do you think it would taken this long to file charges? Before you say it is not the same thing, it actually is.

[Clocker]

The mere fact that no charges have been filed is evidence. If a cop had died in the scuffle, do you think it would taken this long to file charges? Before you say it is not the same thing, it actually is.

The findings of the investigation have not been released yet. How can they file charges if they have not completed the investigation?

[Robert Goren]

If Freddy Gray had been injured in a Walmart (and perhaps extrapolate the example to say his family wished to sue Walmart for his injuries), there'd be visual evidence as to what happened.

Businesses seem to know that cameras are cost-effective.

Somehow a camera on the uniform, squad car, and in the back of the 'paddy wagon, are not cost effective. Even after we factor in that the precept that the businesses are somewhat private in nature and concerned with their own profit, while the police are in fact our public servants.

Miraculously lawyers representing FG's family have obtained some film of the initial arrest such as below, that we are to believe was taken by citizens of this relatively poor neighborhood? All very difficult...
It is not cost effective, because they know it will provide evidence of police wrong doing in some case which leads to large monetary settlements. Without a video, it is very hard to win a civil suit against the police. Video cameras are a no win situation for the police which is why police unions oppose them. The benefit of not knowing without absolute certainty always goes to police in a court of law. Maybe not so, in the court of public opinion which why we are seeing more and more demonstrations. But even there as seen on this forum, the police have their die-hard defenders. If the same standards were applied to ordinary citizens as they are applied to police officers, we would not need so many prisons.

[TJDave]

BREAKING NEWS: Freddie Gray’s death has been ruled a homicide and there is probable cause to file criminal charges, Baltimore prosecutor Marilyn Mosby said.

[Greyfox]

We know from past events with police and politicians that there have been cover-ups.

Unfortunately, America seems contaminated to an extent by the sick attitude that more often than not the police and politicians are covering up something when an unfortunate incident takes place.

It is exactly that attitude which ferments lack of trust in authority figures and drives a substantial segment of the public to make unsubstantiated assumptions in the absence of supporting evidence.

It is that attitude which fuels protestors and hooligans to riot and destroy what other hard working citizens have taken years to develop.

I have no problem with people protesting if they are operating from substantiated evidence,
But protesting in the absence of hearing all of the pertinent facts and supportive evidence is idiocy, irrational, and sick.

Making premature false assumptions is a dangerous route for any person to follow.

[Greyfox]

BREAKING NEWS: Freddie Gray’s death has been ruled a homicide and there is probable cause to file criminal charges, Baltimore prosecutor Marilyn Mosby said.

Interesting development.

[bks]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/freddie-grays-death-ruled-homicide-states-attorney/story?id=30728026