Bruce Jenner interview wow! [Archive] - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

Overlay

04-25-2015, 11:15 AM

There was an individual who went through my Army civilian career program training in northwestern Illinois with me back in 1978-1979, and who at that time had a wife and three children. (We were both originally from Indiana, and I used to drop him off in Vincennes on my way to Indianapolis during breaks in our training.) Roughly fifteen years later, he decided to change gender, and then started cohabiting with another woman. (I don't know if they have since become married in some fashion or not.) Go figure.

Overlay

04-25-2015, 11:19 AM

Maybe he wants to break some women's records too.
When Renee Richards (formerly Dr. Richard Raskind) was in the news as a tennis player many years ago, I suspected it was so s/he could be the sole competitor and money-winner in the mixed singles division.

Marshall Bennett

04-25-2015, 12:13 PM

All the publicity he's getting might force other showcased perverts to do the same. Is anyone sure this isn't all some sort of sick hoax? :)

Steve 'StatMan'

04-25-2015, 12:14 PM

Davey: "Gee Goliath. Mr. Jenner has become Ms. Jenner."

Goliath: "Oh Davey."

Relwob Owner

04-25-2015, 12:45 PM

All the publicity he's getting might force other showcased perverts to do the same. Is anyone sure this isn't all some sort of sick hoax? :)

Showcased perverts? Is that what you consider Bruce Jenner to be?

Marshall Bennett

04-25-2015, 03:57 PM

I do.

boxcar

04-25-2015, 04:33 PM

Showcased perverts? Is that what you consider Bruce Jenner to be?

I bet you think he's as normal as a necrophiliac.

RunForTheRoses

04-25-2015, 06:05 PM

It takes real balls to do what Bruce is doing.

Either way you slice it she's da man.

JustRalph

04-25-2015, 07:17 PM

I watched it off the DVR this morning. Seemed pretty sincere.

Not sure he's a pervert, except in the dictionary meaning of the word.

But mentally impaired. I could go along with that

Marshall Bennett

04-25-2015, 07:37 PM

fast4522

04-25-2015, 07:47 PM

I watched it off the DVR this morning. Seemed pretty sincere.

Not sure he's a pervert, except in the dictionary meaning of the word.

But mentally impaired. I could go along with that

He Probably had a girlfriend who was strange and pegged him.

Relwob Owner

04-25-2015, 07:56 PM

If people such as Jenner wish to change their gender, as long as i don't have to know about it I can live with it. I don't think their publicized perversion should be rammed down my throat. Same goes for the gay parades, gay adoptions, and whatever else. They all insist their lifestyles are normal and they insist we adopt that belief as well. It isn't normal by any means, and I'll be damned if I'll be shamed into accepting them as if they are.
To put it bluntly, their lifestyles sicken me. :ThmbDown:

How are any of these people impacting your daily life? Probably not at all...Pretty sad way to look at the world in my opinion. So many things to spend time and energy on in life that are productive and wasting energy judging and being sickened by the way someone else lives theirs seems to be a tremendous waste of time to me.

Relwob Owner

04-25-2015, 08:13 PM

I bet you think he's as normal as a necrophiliac.

You don't know me so I don't think you should be wagering on what I think. Why would I think he is normal? As far as Jenner or anyone else's gender or sexual preference goes, who cares? There is enough to worry and stress about in this world and I could care less what people want to do in that area.

I have noticed that those who hate others based solely on race,gender, etc are often projecting their own anger and/or self hatred....is that what I should bet is the case with you??????

boxcar

04-25-2015, 08:32 PM

You don't know me so I don't think you should be wagering on what I think. Why would I think he is normal? As far as Jenner or anyone else's gender or sexual preference goes, who cares? There is enough to worry and stress about in this world and I could care less what people want to do in that area.

I have noticed that those who hate others based solely on race,gender, etc are often projecting their own anger and/or self hatred....is that what I should bet is the case with you??????

You don't know me, so you shouldn't be forming baseless opinions on what you think people hate.

And apparently you cared enough about Jenner's gender and/sexual preferences to reply to Marshall's post. :rolleyes:

Relwob Owner

04-25-2015, 08:45 PM

You don't know me, so you shouldn't be forming baseless opinions on what you think people hate.

And apparently you cared enough about Jenner's gender and/sexual preferences to reply to Marshall's post. :rolleyes:

You get what you give. Just responding to your initial baseless interpretation of what I thought and what you bet it was.......

Read my post to him and my post to you. I don't have the energy to care about Jenner or anyone else's gender and/sexual preferences and they have no effect on my life. I do care when people take those preferences and skew them in a negative way and that is why I responded.

Marshall Bennett

04-26-2015, 04:55 AM

How are any of these people impacting your daily life? Probably not at all...Pretty sad way to look at the world in my opinion. So many things to spend time and energy on in life that are productive and wasting energy judging and being sickened by the way someone else lives theirs seems to be a tremendous waste of time to me.
I don't waste any energy with it. Perhaps a few minutes now and then with a thread like this one.
When I see it on the news watching TV, I simply shake my head. Very little energy wasted there. :)

TJDave

04-26-2015, 05:03 AM

I bet you think he's as normal as a necrophiliac.

Everyone should be as harmless as a necrophiliac.

Relwob Owner

04-26-2015, 06:36 AM

I don't waste any energy with it. Perhaps a few minutes now and then with a thread like this one.
When I see it on the news watching TV, I simply shake my head. Very little energy wasted there. :)

Sure seems from your post below that you spend more than a "little energy" on it, but only you know what is actually the case.

I don't think their publicized perversion should be rammed down my throat. Same goes for the gay parades, gay adoptions, and whatever else. They all insist their lifestyles are normal and they insist we adopt that belief as well. It isn't normal by any means, and I'll be damned if I'll be shamed into accepting them as if they are.
To put it bluntly, their lifestyles sicken me.

Marshall Bennett

04-26-2015, 12:09 PM

So when a story runs on the news I'm suppose to mute the television and leave the room? I still don't see in that post of mine where any real energy was expended. Your analogy of me with this is at a dead end. Move on.

boxcar

04-26-2015, 02:05 PM

Everyone should be as harmless as a necrophiliac.

Speaking from personal experience, are you?

Relwob Owner

04-26-2015, 04:06 PM

JustRalph

04-26-2015, 05:33 PM

The left is going after Jenner because during the interview he revealed he was a Republican, conservative type. How quickly they morph

http://hotair.com/archives/2015/04/25/video-bruce-jenner-comes-out-as-a-conservative-republican/

"When Sawyer asked if Jenner cheered when Obama became the first president to even say the word “transgender” in a State of the Union address, the 65-year-old replied that he “would certainly give him credit for that.”

“But not to get political,” Jenner continued, “I’ve never been a big fan, I’m kind of more on the conservative side.”

“Are your a Republican?” Sawyer asked in response, to which Jenner replied, “Yeah! Is that a bad thing? I believe in the constitution.”

“Do you think that would be an unsettling thing for some people in the conservative wing of the party?” Sawyer asked.

“I’ve thought about that,” says Jenner, adding that neither political party has a monopoly on understanding."

Marshall Bennett

04-26-2015, 07:26 PM

Now if all the blacks and homosexuals jump on board with Bruce, the republicans may have a realistic shot in 2016. :bang:

upthecreek

04-27-2015, 06:43 AM

Sounds like he's giving up his "javelin" for a "discus" :)

Inner Dirt

04-27-2015, 10:40 AM

If people such as Jenner wish to change their gender, as long as i don't have to know about it I can live with it. I don't think their publicized perversion should be rammed down my throat. Same goes for the gay parades, gay adoptions, and whatever else. They all insist their lifestyles are normal and they insist we adopt that belief as well. It isn't normal by any means, and I'll be damned if I'll be shamed into accepting them as if they are.
To put it bluntly, their lifestyles sicken me. :ThmbDown:

I wish they would just blend in and not be noticed. All this Bruce Jenner talk is getting on my nerves, who cares? People calling him a hero? For what? Give me a break.

PaceAdvantage

04-27-2015, 12:02 PM

Tom

04-27-2015, 12:43 PM

Sounds like he's giving up his "javelin" for a "discus" :)

If he later decides he is not happy, there is an operation that could return him to being a male.......an adadictome.

classhandicapper

04-27-2015, 02:48 PM

I just want to make sure I understand this.

1. He has a male body.

2. He has always mentally and emotionally felt like a woman.

3. He has always been attracted to women, has had children, and has never had sex with another man.

4. So he basically sees himself as a lesbian with a penis or something like that?

This is very confusing. I may need to create a spreadsheet to keep track of all the possibilities. :bang:

Marshall Bennett

04-27-2015, 04:43 PM

I just want to make sure I understand this.

1. He has a male body.

2. He has always mentally and emotionally felt like a woman.

3. He has always been attracted to women, has had children, and has never had sex with another man.

4. So he basically sees himself as a lesbian with a penis or something like that?

5. He drools over the publicity and will write a book. :)

dartman51

04-27-2015, 05:11 PM

5. He drools over the publicity and will write a book. :)

BINGO!!!! He's just like the entire NO TALENT Kardashian family. Publicity whores. He's just another freak show looking for a payday. :faint:

highnote

04-27-2015, 05:21 PM

I worked one afternoon with Jenner and a couple other athletes back in the early 90s -- Ron Darling the MLB pitcher and a former NFL QB Ken O'Brien or maybe it was Ken Anderson.

The thing that struck me about Jenner is that his appearance -- his face -- was very striking. I wouldn't say he was handsome, or beautiful, but he was striking. I wondered if he had had plastic surgery because his facial features were so perfect -- especially the bridge of his nose -- perfectly straight. He looked androgynous. So when I heard he was changing gender I wasn't surprised. This has been a long time coming.

A couple other things I remember from that day:

I remember him saying to Darling and the QB, "My girlfriend's father has more money than God." That braggadocio was probably his way of acting macho and hiding his inner self.

Then he tried to get them to invest in a business opportunity he was involved with that was geared toward athletes.

Darling and the QB just ignored him -- probably because Jenner was so different that what you would expect a professional male athlete to be like.

Thinking back, now I feel sorry for him and what he has had to go through. It must be very difficult to have such internal conflicts.

I hope he is happier now.

I just want to make sure I understand this.

1. He has a male body.

2. He has always mentally and emotionally felt like a woman.

3. He has always been attracted to women, has had children, and has never had sex with another man.

4. So he basically sees himself as a lesbian with a penis or something like that?

This is very confusing. I may need to create a spreadsheet to keep track of all the possibilities. :bang:

dartman51

04-27-2015, 07:01 PM

I wish they would just blend in and not be noticed. All this Bruce Jenner talk is getting on my nerves, who cares? People calling him a hero? For what? Give me a break.

That is a slap in the face of all the real heros in this country. But, that's the way the left thinks. I guess that means Wayne Bobbit is their hero too. He got his weiner cut off......oh, wait, that wasn't by choice. Never mind. :rolleyes:

JustRalph

04-27-2015, 07:09 PM

TJDave

04-27-2015, 07:18 PM

This might be the most sincere interview subject I've ever seen.

I didn't watch it but I can think of easier ways to make money than what he's doing.

Marshall Bennett

04-27-2015, 07:37 PM

I watched this interview again, with my wife.

I've had lots of training and experience and interrogation, albeit years ago. It's mostly about body language.

This might be the most sincere interview subject I've ever seen.

Just a note ........
I just wonder how many young children watched and were scratching their heads. At 7 or 8 are they mature enough to understand or be taught? Mom and dad are liberals so surely they're watching if they're sitting there with them.

Tom

04-27-2015, 08:53 PM

That is a slap in the face of all the real heros in this country. But, that's the way the left thinks. I guess that means Wayne Bobbit is their hero too. He got his weiner cut off......oh, wait, that wasn't by choice. Never mind. :rolleyes:

He goes by an alias nowadays when he travels...Les Johnson.

PaceAdvantage

04-28-2015, 01:12 AM

My late mother was saying Bruce Jenner looked like a woman since his Olympic days... :lol:

And it wasn't because he had long hair...

I worked one afternoon with Jenner and a couple other athletes back in the early 90s -- Ron Darling the MLB pitcher and a former NFL QB Ken O'Brien or maybe it was Ken Anderson.

The thing that struck me about Jenner is that his appearance -- his face -- was very striking. I wouldn't say he was handsome, or beautiful, but he was striking. I wondered if he had had plastic surgery because his facial features were so perfect -- especially the bridge of his nose -- perfectly straight. He looked androgynous. So when I heard he was changing gender I wasn't surprised. This has been a long time coming.

A couple other things I remember from that day:

I remember him saying to Darling and the QB, "My girlfriend's father has more money than God." That braggadocio was probably his way of acting macho and hiding his inner self.

Then he tried to get them to invest in a business opportunity he was involved with that was geared toward athletes.

Darling and the QB just ignored him -- probably because Jenner was so different that what you would expect a professional male athlete to be like.

Thinking back, now I feel sorry for him and what he has had to go through. It must be very difficult to have such internal conflicts.

I hope he is happier now.

highnote

04-28-2015, 03:10 AM

My late mother was saying Bruce Jenner looked like a woman since his Olympic days... :lol:

And it wasn't because he had long hair...

He was kind of a pretty boy.

JustRalph

06-01-2015, 02:24 PM

Caitlyn

ArlJim78

06-01-2015, 02:46 PM

Finkler is Einhorn, Einhorn is Finkler.

JustRalph

06-01-2015, 03:03 PM

I see they had him hide his big man hands behind his back.

I'm starting to wonder why this is news.........

FantasticDan

06-01-2015, 03:19 PM

I see they had him hide his big man hands behind his back. Hey, you can be a pretty lady and still have big hands :p :ThmbUp:
vik-7MjKDa0

MutuelClerk

06-01-2015, 04:15 PM

Coming out at the Espys.

Perfect. Fake awards show.

Fake people.

America's favorite fake family.

The Kardashians.

Sadly, the money will be real.

Inner Dirt

06-01-2015, 04:55 PM

That picture of it makes me want to puke.

Inner Dirt

06-01-2015, 05:14 PM

Coming out at the Espys.

Perfect. Fake awards show.

Fake people.

America's favorite fake family.

The Kardashians.

Sadly, the money will be real.

They are giving the same courage award to Jenner as they gave to Pat Tillman who gave up millions of dollars to serve his country and died doing it? Jenner is nothing but a freak, drama queen and media whore, and people compare him to someone who gave up a life of luxury to get shot at? WTF!!!

Tall One

06-01-2015, 07:18 PM

Well played, Dan... :D

dartman51

06-01-2015, 07:19 PM

They are giving the same courage award to Jenner as they gave to Pat Tillman who gave up millions of dollars to serve his country and died doing it? Jenner is nothing but a freak, drama queen and media whore, and people compare him to someone who gave up a life of luxury to get shot at? WTF!!!

THAT, my friend, is the sick world we live in. :mad:

cj's dad

06-02-2015, 01:30 AM

A freak embraced by the looney left !!

PaceAdvantage

06-02-2015, 09:22 AM

I guess that's one way to make a buck these days...

classhandicapper

06-02-2015, 10:16 AM

So what is Jenner now.

He has a penis, female breasts, dresses like a woman, but has sex with women.

A transexual, tranvestite, heterosexual lesbian?

Tom

06-02-2015, 10:38 AM

Democrat?

PaceAdvantage

06-02-2015, 10:39 AM

Democrat?Nope...he's (I mean she's) a Republican apparently...that's gotta irk some Dems... :lol:

Clocker

06-02-2015, 10:47 AM

So what is Jenner now.

He has a penis, female breasts, dresses like a woman, but has sex with women.

A transexual, tranvestite, heterosexual lesbian?

I'm not sure what he is, but I think that in a number of blue states, he can now legally marry himself.

Robert Goren

06-02-2015, 10:53 AM

I'm not sure what he is, but I think that in a number of blue states, he can now legally marry himself. I am pretty sure in Nebraska (a very red state) which outlaws gay marriage, He could marry herself since it between a man and woman. :rolleyes:

Inner Dirt

06-02-2015, 11:56 AM

How can it be a she if it still has a penis? It looks like a dude wearing a wig and a dress to me. In my book at this state it is just a cross dresser. What is really sick is it set the record for the fastest to a million twitter followers. It made the front page of ESPN and Fox Sports websites.

Severely wounded vets come home to no fanfare and there is over a year wait for them to get disability checks. Jenner is called brave, courageous and a hero and will make millions of dollars for being a freak by choice, something is seriously wrong with that.

Tom

06-02-2015, 12:09 PM

Seriously wrong.
There is no comparison between this nutcase and real heroes.

JustRalph

06-02-2015, 12:20 PM

He's a chick , with a Dick. Plain and simple and it rhymes

Marshall Bennett

06-02-2015, 12:30 PM

Publicity. :bang: I'd imagine a couple books down the road, rights to TV movies, interviews, and possibly endorsements. Needless to say liberals will drool and buy up anything connected to the creep. Any freak of nature could do a whole lot worse. This freak was manufactured and just the idea of it all sickens me.
What is this world coming too?

Inner Dirt

06-02-2015, 12:47 PM

I think it already has a new reality series lined up. The only thing Jenner could do to redeem himself, herself or it's self is to proclaim all the support is unwarranted to neither be brave or a hero and donate all the money made for the latest media whoring to real heroes like the Disabled Veterans Fund or a like charity.

Unfortunately since this crap is all over sport's talk and I only receive one sport's talk radio station in my shop I cannot avoid hearing about this crap.
The way the liberal media gushes over crap like this is sickening, in what other country would a freak like Jenner be celebrated? I just wish this would go away and it would be a non issue, but liberals just love shoving this crap in our faces. Liberals all preach tolerance unless you disagree with them, some of us will always be grossed out by freaks like Jenner and no amount of shoving it down our throats is going to change that.

highnote

06-02-2015, 12:57 PM

What is this world coming too?

As far as I can tell, the world is the same that it has always been. This is what makes life -- for lack of a better word -- interesting.

I don't go out of my way to follow the story except for what I read here on PA or happen to see or hear about in the media. It's hard not to know about it.

And if I hadn't worked with Jenner about 30 years ago I would be even less interested. He had already started his transformation then. He was kind of odd, but in a non-threatening way. He wasn't a very macho for a guy who won a gold medal in the Olympics.

If he's happier now then I'm happy for him. If he can help others who are going through the same thing be happier and be more accepted into society then that is a good thing.

I actually find the whole thing fascinating because it is something I know so little about.

It must be terrible to born gay or feel like a man trapped in a woman's body (or vice-versa) and have to deny it your whole life. Life is hard enough without taking on that kind of burden.

Being a male or female human being is not black and white -- on or off -- or whatever phrase you want to use.

There are people born with ambiguous genitalia -- are they men or women? Why do they have to make a choice? Why can't they be who they are and not be criticized or ostracized for it?

Who cares? They're still people. Humans with Down Syndrome are still humans. It's not their fault they were born that way.

I suppose it is the same with Jenner. He was born a certain way and now he is becoming who he wants to be, not who society says he should be.

Tom

06-02-2015, 12:57 PM

I think it already has a new reality series lined up.

They bringing back Queen For a Day?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_for_a_Day

classhandicapper

06-02-2015, 01:03 PM

If I went to my general practitioner tomorrow and said "Dr X, for my entire life I've felt like an black Asian man trapped inside a white European body", we'd have a short conversation to elaborate and then he'd appropriately recommend a psychiatrist.

Yet if say you are woman trapped inside a man's body (or vice versa), despite all the physical evidence to the contrary, the left celebrates you and gives you awards of courage for coming out.

Who's to say he doesn't just suffer from the same kind of mental illness?

Isn't that at least a possibility?

This country is hopeless.

PaceAdvantage

06-02-2015, 01:06 PM

As far as I can tell, the world is the same that it has always been. This is what makes life -- for lack of a better word -- interesting.

I don't go out of my way to follow the story except for what I read here on PA or happen to see or hear about in the media. It's hard not to know about it.

And if I hadn't worked with Jenner about 30 years ago I would be even less interested. He had already started his transformation then. He was kind of odd, but in a non-threatening way. He wasn't a very macho for a guy who won a gold medal in the Olympics.

If he's happier now then I'm happy for him. If he can help others who are going through the same thing be happier and be more accepted into society then that is a good thing.

I actually find the whole thing fascinating because it is something I know so little about.

It must be terrible to born gay or feel like a man trapped in a woman's body (or vice-versa) and have to deny it your whole life. Life is hard enough without taking on that kind of burden.

Being a male or female human being is not black and white -- on or off -- or whatever phrase you want to use.

There are people born with ambiguous genitalia -- are they men or women? Why do they have to make a choice? Why can't they be who they are and not be criticized or ostracized for it?

Who cares? They're still people. Humans with Down Syndrome are still humans. It's not their fault they were born that way.

I suppose it is the same with Jenner. He was born a certain way and now he is becoming who he wants to be, not who society says he should be.Humor this thought for a moment. Where do we draw the line between acceptable behavior and mental illness?

Why is a man who feels he is trapped in a woman's body any more sane than a man who thinks little green men are communicating with him telepathically? In neither instance is the man in question hurting anyone. Yet one is looked at as looney, and the other is looked at (by most people these days) as sane yet born with a terrible mistake in anatomy.

Who's to say Jenner isn't suffering from some sort of brain chemical imbalance? Where is the proof that he is actually a woman trapped inside a man's body?

I'm not trying to be a jerk or intolerant. I'm asking a serious question.

highnote

06-02-2015, 01:13 PM

Humor this thought for a moment. Where do we draw the line between acceptable behavior and mental illness?

Why is a man who feels he is trapped in a woman's body any more sane than a man who thinks little green men are communicating with him telepathically? In neither instance is the man in question hurting anyone. Yet one is looked at as looney, and the other is looked at (by most people these days) as sane yet born with a terrible mistake in anatomy.

Who's to say Jenner isn't suffering from some sort of brain chemical imbalance? Where is the proof that he is actually a woman trapped inside a man's body?

I'm not trying to be a jerk or intolerant. I'm asking a serious question.

You might be right. How about this... maybe everyone who is heterosexual is mentally ill? Maybe people who feel like a woman trapped in a man's body are actually the normal ones?

People talk to God all the time, sometimes they even say that God communicates back to them. Are they normal, or mentally ill?

You're right. There are a lot of blurred lines.

I'm sure there are Ph.D. dissertations written about this.

If Jenner says he feels like a woman, who am I to tell him how to feel?

If a person is grossed out by Jenner's behavior, who am I to tell them to not feel grossed out?

Tom

06-02-2015, 01:23 PM

IF he thinks he is trapped in a man's body, why doe he keep his "tether" to his manhood intact? He might have more cred if he cut the cord, so to speak.

thaskalos

06-02-2015, 01:40 PM

The most disturbing aspect of this scenario, IMO, isn't the debate of whether or not Jenner is mentally ill; it's the obvious fact that there is such a wide and adoring audience out there for this type of outlandish behavior. Jenner was a forgotten man, and now he has become a serious celebrity who is been hailed for his display of "bravery"? He is even in line to receive an AWARD?

I think our SOCIETY is mentally ill.

classhandicapper

06-02-2015, 01:51 PM

People talk to God all the time, sometimes they even say that God communicates back to them. Are they normal, or mentally ill?

If you are talking to God and He is answering you directly or through angels you are crazy or you are Joan of Arc etc... If you make claims like Joan of Arc, you better beat back some armies to give yourself some credibility or you belong in the loony bin.

highnote

06-02-2015, 01:52 PM

IF he thinks he is trapped in a man's body, why doe he keep his "tether" to his manhood intact? He might have more cred if he cut the cord, so to speak.

If I was a man trapped in a woman's body I wouldn't want surgery -- I'd be feeling myself up everyday. :D

highnote

06-02-2015, 01:54 PM

If you are talking to God and He is answering you directly or through angels you are crazy or you are Joan of Arc etc... If you make claims like Joan of Arc, you better beat back some armies to give yourself some credibility or you belong in the loony bin.

Rex Humbard asked for a million dollars in donations because God told him if he didn't get the money He would call Rex home.

Rex got the money.

classhandicapper

06-02-2015, 01:58 PM

Rex Humbard asked for a million dollars in donations because God told him if he didn't get the money He would call Rex home.

Rex got the money.

In that case I would say he was not crazy. He belonged in jail.

upthecreek

06-02-2015, 03:02 PM

He went from an Olympic hero, to a penis-less ZERO Personally I think he has mental issues

highnote

06-02-2015, 04:28 PM

He went from an Olympic hero, to a penis-less ZERO Personally I think he has mental issues

My understanding is that she still has her penis, unless you are speaking metaphorically.

She might have mental issues. But maybe the mental issues were caused by pressure from society that kept her from feeling like she could be who she really is?

If his ex-wife, Kris Jenner, comes out as a lesbian then this will all make sense... sort of... well maybe not...

The good old days were much simpler:

oV5LQcmuGg8

JustRalph

06-02-2015, 05:36 PM

This is going around Twitter

Not sure of the accuracy

woodtoo

06-02-2015, 06:07 PM

Good to see Caitlyn man up ........ sorta. :D

classhandicapper

06-03-2015, 09:57 AM

classhandicapper

06-03-2015, 10:05 AM

cj's dad

06-03-2015, 11:14 AM

https://scontent-lga1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/11391342_778311278933851_3860506684034235867_n.jpg ?oh=0f28438062ac5d2e6c0c7b203e9326fb&oe=55F611C1

PaceAdvantage

06-03-2015, 11:24 AM

At least someone reputable is willing to give the opposing view without fear of career destruction regardless of who is right.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/johns-hopkins-psychiatrist-transgender-mental-disorder-sex-change?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=cns&utm_term=facebook&utm_content=facebook&utm_campaign=n-johns-hopkinsAfter googling the doctor's name, I came across this rebuttal of his WSJ piece by a transgender-advocate website:

http://www.transadvocate.com/clinging-to-a-dangerous-past-dr-paul-mchughs-selective-reading-of-transgender-medical-literature_n_13842.htm

PaceAdvantage

06-03-2015, 11:31 AM

And then there is this:

Inner Dirt

06-03-2015, 11:33 AM

The Noah Galloway story is not totally accurate. From what I gather he did not finish second in the voting. ESPN apparently either did not even consider him (which is just as bad) or they are not revealing if there was even a vote.

Look who has now won the award the last 3 years

Robin Roberts, gay ex sportscaster, at least she battled cancer

Michael Sam, gay football player who had pathetic measurables, not good enough for the NFL who was only a household name because he was gay, he came out to get himself 15 minutes of fame, nothing more.

Caitlyn Jenner, half man half woman at this point.

Mr Galloway, while a person anyone should admire for courage and perseverance never had a chance because he obviously wasn't gay or whatever else they call it.

classhandicapper

06-03-2015, 11:57 AM

After googling the doctor's name, I came across this rebuttal of his WSJ piece by a transgender-advocate website:

http://www.transadvocate.com/clinging-to-a-dangerous-past-dr-paul-mchughs-selective-reading-of-transgender-medical-literature_n_13842.htm

I read some of that rebuttal.

The problem I have with that article (aside from much of this being outside my range) is that it's from The Transadvocate vs. the former "Psychiatrist in Chief" at a prestigious hospital where there was enough of a consensus to actually halt sex change operations.

That doesn't mean Dr. McHugh and John Hopkins are correct, but one source seems a little more trustworthy and it at least raises the possibility that this is a mental disorder.

My own feeling is that even if there is a biological component to this, that still doesn't make it normal. I'm a believer in tolerance and non discrimination, but I don't necessarily believe we should be turning people into heroes when they may actually be mentally ill or suffer from some biological disorder.

PaceAdvantage

06-03-2015, 12:00 PM

I read some of that rebuttal.

The problem I have with that article (aside from that much of this is outside my range) is that it's from The Transadvocate vs. the former "Psychiatrist in Chief" at a prestigious hospital where there was enough of a consensus to actually halt sex change operations.

That doesn't mean Dr. McHugh and John Hopkins are correct, but one source seems a little more trustworthy.

My own feeling is that even if there is a biological component to this, that still doesn't make it normal.It seems to this outside observer that both sides linked to in the last few replies are coming at this from an obviously biased agenda.

I tend to personally agree more with the Doctor, but then again, he isn't giving the whole story, and naturally, neither is the "Transadvocate" site...

It's still an interesting debate nonetheless.

classhandicapper

06-03-2015, 12:23 PM

It seems to this outside observer that both sides linked to in the last few replies are coming at this from an obviously biased agenda.

I tend to personally agree more with the Doctor, but then again, he isn't giving the whole story, and naturally, neither is the "Transadvocate" site...

It's still an interesting debate nonetheless.

I've already conceded my lack of expertise, but one is a prestigious doctor from a prestigious hospital and the other an advocacy group with no such qualifications in medicine or psychiatry. If this doctor was some kind of whack job that was easily rebutted, there's almost no way John Hopkins would have halted sex change operations. There had to been a multi doctor review of all the evidence or the hospital wouldn't have agreed with him. Like I said, they may be wrong, but....

PaceAdvantage

06-03-2015, 12:28 PM

I've already conceded my lack of expertise, but one is a prestigious doctor from a prestigious hospital and the other an advocacy group with no such qualifications in medicine or psychiatry. If this doctor was some kind of whack job that was easily rebutted, there's almost no way John Hopkins would have halted sex change operations. There had to been a multi doctor review of all the evidence or the hospital wouldn't have agreed with him. Like I said, they may be wrong, but....Is this still the position of John Hopkins? I kind of doubt that...but I am curious. Is this doctor still working there?

And you will admit that the advocacy group at least cited numerous outside sources...it wasn't like they were making things up out of thin air.

upthecreek

06-03-2015, 12:31 PM

[QUOTE=highnote]My understanding is that she still has her penis, unless you are speaking metaphorically.

She might have mental issues. But maybe the mental issues were caused by pressure from society that kept her from feeling like she could be who she really is?

If his ex-wife, Kris Jenner, comes out as a lesbian then this will all make sense... sort of... well maybe not...

The good old days were much simpler:

Yes Im speaking metaphorically I think they just "fold" in the penis to give him a-whatever it is!

Greyfox

06-03-2015, 12:46 PM

Dr. McHugh was absolutely correct when he stated:

“’Sex change’ is biologically impossible,”

There is more to gender than simply replacing hormones and sex organs.
Just this week the FIFA World Cup Soccer women were all tested to make sure they are "genuine" females, not transgendered surgically altered males.
Every cell in the body carries markers as to whether you are male or female.
That cannot be changed.
Also there will always be something offsetting in the appearance transgendered males and females. In effect, something masculine about men who try to become female and vice versa.

classhandicapper

06-03-2015, 01:08 PM

Here's some more interesting reading alone these lines.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/becoming-disabled-by-choice-not-chance-transabled-people-feel-like-impostors-in-their-fully-working-bodies

PaceAdvantage

06-03-2015, 01:12 PM

Nobody wants to just be crazy anymore.

Crazy people should be highly offended...where is their advocacy group?

Clocker

06-03-2015, 01:16 PM

Just this week the FIFA World Cup Soccer women were all tested to make sure they are "genuine" females, not transgendered surgically altered males.
Every cell in the body carries markers as to whether you are male or female.
That cannot be changed.

There is a much simpler, fool-proof test. You put the team in a room and show them Three Stooges movies. Anyone that laughs is a man, anyone that looks bored and perplexed is a woman.

classhandicapper

06-03-2015, 01:20 PM

Is this still the position of John Hopkins? I kind of doubt that...but I am curious. Is this doctor still working there?

And you will admit that the advocacy group at least cited numerous outside sources...it wasn't like they were making things up out of thin air.

I can't swear to it, but I read an article today supporting the doctor's position that implied John Hopkin still does not do those surgeries. The doctor is still at the hospital, but I believe he is at the age where he is in a less active position. That is fairly typical.

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/profiles/results/directory/profile/0003340/paul-mchugh

IMO, there's is simply a monstrous difference between what should be neutral and fully informed doctors from a prestigious hospital and an advocacy group scouring the internet and medical literature for anything that supports their position. You can find sources that believe all sorts of nonsense.

PaceAdvantage

06-03-2015, 01:25 PM

IMO, there's is simply a monstrous difference between what should be neutral and fully informed doctors from a prestigious hospital and an advocacy group scouring the internet and medical literature for anything that supports their position. You can find sources that believe all sorts of nonsense.How can you say the doctor is neutral? He clearly is not. He clearly holds a position on one side of the argument.

And what did the advocacy group post that was in error? Or did they simply post data and info from OTHER "fully informed doctors" and prestigious medical groups?

Look, I'm not defending the advocates...like I said, I side way more on the doctor side...but let's not pretend the advocates have nothing worthwhile to contribute to the discussion.

classhandicapper

06-03-2015, 01:52 PM

How can you say the doctor is neutral? He clearly is not. He clearly holds a position on one side of the argument.

And what did the advocacy group post that was in error? Or did they simply post data and info from OTHER "fully informed doctors" and prestigious medical groups?

Look, I'm not defending the advocates...like I said, I side way more on the doctor side...but let's not pretend the advocates have nothing worthwhile to contribute to the discussion.

They "may" have something to contribute.

The doctor clearly has a strong opinion, but it is an opinion that came after looking at the facts and results of surgeries that his hospital initially performed.

The advocacy group started from a position of normalizing transgender and is now looking for any and all sources that will support that position.

Here's an easier example.

If you scour the internet you will find research that tells you eating red meat is not good for you. But you will also find research that tells you it's not only OK, it's a good thing. This is from today.

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2015/06/no_author/go-ahead-eat-that-juicy-steak/

If you go into it as an animal loving vegetarian that wants to advance that lifestyle, you will cite all those articles that support your position of not eating meat.

If you go into it neutral and read all the research and studies you may come out of it with an unbiased conclusion and opinion. If you are an MD that specialize in nutrition at a prestigious hospital, I am going to listen to what you have to say over some guy at PETA.

PaceAdvantage

06-03-2015, 01:54 PM

If you go into it neutral and read all the research and studies you may come out of it with an unbiased conclusion and opinion. If you are an MD that specialize in nutrition at a prestigious hospital, I am going to listen to what you have to say over some guy at PETA.Even if the PETA guy is quoting other MDs that specialize in nutrition at prestigious hospitals that agree with PETA guy?

classhandicapper

06-03-2015, 02:13 PM

Even if the PETA guy is quoting other MDs that specialize in nutrition at prestigious hospitals that agree with PETA guy?

I hear what you are saying.

It depends.

If they were of equal quality and number, then they would be equal and I'd eat a balanced diet. :lol:

In this case we (or at least I) do not know that the sources being cited by the advocacy group are of equal merit to an opinion I definitely have respect for.

We do not know the percentage breakdown on each side of the debate (assuming we could find doctors courageous enough to take the John Hopkins side without fear for their careers).

I think the chances of an advocacy group being biased by definition are close to 100%.

There are some doctors that specialize in immune function that still swear that the AIDS virus does not cause AIDS. They are outnumbered dramatically and probably in quality. But I bet I can still find advocacy groups pointing to their research and opinions to support not taking anti viral drugs and the like.

Which way would you bet?

I'm not betting on the advocacy group. I might be wrong, but that's the value. ;)